NationStates Jolt Archive

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.

Please do not feed the trolls...

I couldn't give a fart for them. :wink:

PROSPERITY FOR SCOTLAND, NO TO THE UNION!
Engraved on a Jacobites broadsword

umm. hmm.

One World Government. Disolve all boundaries, golbalisation dude!

Some of the ancestors of the english did some pretty rotten stuff to wales to scotland and to ireland.Hell some of the ancestors of the irish welsh and scots merrily raped the world along with england back in the days of the British empire.
Dun bun cant be undun
No point hating an entire people for the deeds of some of their ancestors dude........

i agree whats done is done (though i still dis-like the welsh language worse than french and spainish combined)

~Prongs

oh no, I'm...yeah, I'm outraged, and...pffft...yeah, you...umm...and that. Right, time for a cup of tea :D

The best thing is, the vast, vast majority of the Welsh didn't really care back then, and we still don't.

/me sips tea

TALLY HO

Um, yeah, if you're taking that approach both continents of America as well as Australia and NZ should be handed back to the native peoples, the English and French should give their entire nations back to Celtic peoples, half of Spain should go back to North Africa, 95% of sub-Saharan Africa should retreat back to West Africa, and then we should all go back to Ethiopia and crawl into the ovaries of mitochondrial Eve.

Oh yeah, and did I mention I'm a quarter Welsh? And unless you're from the most remote of the Valleys, I'd imagine you're at least part English, whether you know it or not. Trying to draw a line between peoples who've assimilated each other for centuries is ridiculous. You might as well try and sort us out into Norse, Normans, Angles and Saxons.

As minorities go, the Welsh are incredibly well-treated. They've got their own Assembly which is thoroughly revitalising the country, they've got their language recognised as official (it's on every roadsign, even though the vast majority of Welsh don't speak it)... compare this to Northern Ireland, or the Basque people, or American Indians, or just about any colonised people on the frickin' planet.

The English aren't killing the Welsh language. It's actually rising in usage, largely due to the Assembly's efforts. The reason for its former decline is that, basically, English is more useful. There's no reason to speak Welsh anywhere except Wales, where only about 600,000 (2001 figures; 20% of the population) speak it. On the other hand, English is the most widely spoken language in the world, spoken at some level by roughly 25% of its population. That a higher proportion of people speak English in the world than people speak Welsh in Wales is something to bear in mind here. Basically, the only reason to speak Welsh is national and cultural pride; well and good, but that's not something that's going to make most people maintain an interest in it. Linguistic market forces, essentially, which you can't blame anyone for.

True, the English oppressed the Welsh pretty scandalously in the past, but nobody who's alive today did, and you can't blame anybody alive today for something they had nothing to do with.

All peoples have, in a period of their History, acted like British ancestors against the Welsh: French and their minorities, English with Quebecers, American with Native Indians, Chinese with Tibetans, Turks against Kurds, and the list goes on. It is impossible to have a complete list of all atrocities committed by a nation against another less powerful nations, colonies, occupied territories, ethnic minorities.
So, it is pointless to hate a people who ill-treated yours, as yours may certainly have ill-treated another one...
What we should all do is to think about those terrible actions, and try to do our best to avoid them in the future.
We cannot change the past, but we can still shape our future.

Who's trying to kill the Welsh language? I've never seen anyone turned away from a club for not speaking English, but its happened to those who don't speak Welsh.

..I don't really care, no.

Wales is really no different to..Cornwall, for example. Lets get some enraged Cornish folk in here. No? At least Wales got to fly its own flag, see its language made on of the UK's official tongues, and now has its own assembly. You may think that you hate the English, but you do not speak for Wales (like I say, there are democratically elected representatives to do that).

I think it a shame that the Celts were defeated, but it happened a long time before England existed as a unified entity. It was over (for Wales) when Rome took Anglesey from the Druids, and Christianity obliterated Celtic culture.

Best not to be too confrontational. You'll get either A)Nothing, or B)Your way, and see civil war break out.. and who thinks Wales will benefit from getting its arse kicked? Nobody, eh? Wales is pretty cool, as principalities go.

Sorry double-post .

Damn double post.

..And yes, the Welsh commited plenty of their own crimes, and for that matter the English aren't the only ones to wrong Wales at one time or another. To be a bit topical, St.Patrick was a Welshman taken as a slave like so many others...by the Irish. Are you going to kick off on Ireland?

You're right! You should do what we Americans did to the English a long time ago. Hold yourselves a violent, bloody revolution (now that you have gunpowder thoes castles don't have a chance). Then, join the USA. You'll get 4 representatives and 2 senators, ensuring that you'll be treated well as a minority. Just look at American minority groups and see how well they turned out!

I never said that Wales was the worst hit by another country all I'm sayin is that we shud get our independence. To start off get rid of all the schools that teach english as ther first language. God only knows why they even still exist. Welsh is my first language and i no that it isnt everybody elses but why should we have to give them a choice they're in our country they learn the language if they want to live here. Thats why signs shud be in Welsh only that'll get the percentage up.If politics doesnt do it our good friend anarchy will, as it has done for this country before (for example the Protests for the Welsh tv channel,magnificent Meibion Glyndwr and most of all, our outstanding Owain Glyndwr).

Although the English pillaged my mother country for generations and killed millions of my countrymen, they also provided us with the Rolling Stones and the Who, so I'd say we all owe them something.

And the Celts took the british isles away from whoever had them before hand...

It's as shame, but these things happen. Peoples die off...you don't hear anyone speaking up for the british(celtic british, not the Anglish/English). Why? Because they were either assimilated or killed, or ran far away. This is just the way things go. So...should people of celtic descendant hate the english?...No, what was done, was done long ago. Should Celtic, and other people's, have their land back...sure, if the people who live on it trully want it to be a sovereign nation.

Now hating the english government/crown for modern day suppression of distinct cultures, that I can understand...

Now hating the english government/crown for modern day suppression of distinct cultures, that I can understand...
Huh? There hasnt been an english government since 1707 and what modern day suppresion of distinct cultures are you referring to?

I learn much of engrish in school, never I much rike for speaking. writing in which I fail as much often. stupid amerikajin travelors, fathers shop wrecked. America much worse than Britts as for language much impossible as well for learining on both of accounts. Long live Nipon.

I love the English, I love the Scottish, Irish, and the Welsh. I just love everyone! :lol: And, no, I'm not drunk right now.

I love the English... and Irish ... and Scottish and Welsh... Their accents are so irresistable!

*melt*

Ahhh yes... 1292. I remember that like it was just... 700 years ago!

:roll:

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.

I can't hate the English for this, just for their ignorance in not having a clue about whats happened in the past, our country has the best culture, the best people, the best landscape, the most beautiful and widely spoken langiage, and what do we get from them? A non stop stream of unfunny jokes about inter breeding and sheep.

Although those English (Mrs. T) that screwed the Weslh economy and jobs market as recently as the 1980s, and those English that move to Wales for retirement or to by a holiday home, only to completely disregard our culture, they need to dies, painfully is possible.

I really wish we had our independence, at least allow us to stop certain people moving from England to parts of Wales...

Ahhh yes... 1292. I remember that like it was just... 700 years ago!

700 years ain't that long when you look at some of the grudges people are actually killing each other for these days. But what annoys most Welsh people is the present day English neither know, nor care about the past of our country, we really are just a big joke to them. The other thing that annoys the Weslh is that they have consistently elected a lot of Liberal to left wing politicians, yet for most of the last few years, we have been ruled by a Conservative party elected by the people of England, until recently almost all out politicians were in ooposition, which is annoying.

At least the Assembly is a step in the right direction.

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.

I can't hate the English for this, just for their ignorance in not having a clue about whats happened in the past, our country has the best culture, the best people, the best landscape, the most beautiful and widely spoken langiage, and what do we get from them? A non stop stream of unfunny jokes about inter breeding and sheep.

Although those English (Mrs. T) that screwed the Weslh economy and jobs market as recently as the 1980s, and those English that move to Wales for retirement or to by a holiday home, only to completely disregard our culture, they need to dies, painfully is possible.

I really wish we had our independence, at least allow us to stop certain people moving from England to parts of Wales...

Great idea. Send all the Welsh in England back to Wales, all the Scottish back to Scotland and the English will have better employment prospects. Stop the English spending money in Wales and Scotland and make a real job of thier economies.
And Scotland can have the money from the oil in the middle of the north sea as soon as they pay (with interest) the money back they got for disolving thier parliment.
Christ I'm sick and Welsh and Scots with such chips on thier sholders I'm suprised they can walk!
Be proud to be Scottish or Welsh as I am to be English, but don't play the blamless inocents!
God what a bore!!!

I'm Scottish.

I dont care who is from where.

If they're an Arse, they're an arse. Simple.

And btw Mr Condescending, we dont all have "massive chips" on our shoulders. Some of us really couldn't care less.

I'm Scottish.

I dont care who is from where.

If they're an Arse, they're an arse. Simple.

And btw Mr Condescending, we dont all have "massive chips" on our shoulders. Some of us really couldn't care less.

agreed.

Um, yeah, if you're taking that approach both continents of America as well as Australia and NZ should be handed back to the native peoples, the English and French should give their entire nations back to Celtic peoples, half of Spain should go back to North Africa, 95% of sub-Saharan Africa should retreat back to West Africa, and then we should all go back to Ethiopia and crawl into the ovaries of mitochondrial Eve.

Oh yeah, and did I mention I'm a quarter Welsh? And unless you're from the most remote of the Valleys, I'd imagine you're at least part English, whether you know it or not. Trying to draw a line between peoples who've assimilated each other for centuries is ridiculous. You might as well try and sort us out into Norse, Normans, Angles and Saxons.

As minorities go, the Welsh are incredibly well-treated. They've got their own Assembly which is thoroughly revitalising the country, they've got their language recognised as official (it's on every roadsign, even though the vast majority of Welsh don't speak it)... compare this to Northern Ireland, or the Basque people, or American Indians, or just about any colonised people on the frickin' planet.

The English aren't killing the Welsh language. It's actually rising in usage, largely due to the Assembly's efforts. The reason for its former decline is that, basically, English is more useful. There's no reason to speak Welsh anywhere except Wales, where only about 600,000 (2001 figures; 20% of the population) speak it. On the other hand, English is the most widely spoken language in the world, spoken at some level by roughly 25% of its population. That a higher proportion of people speak English in the world than people speak Welsh in Wales is something to bear in mind here. Basically, the only reason to speak Welsh is national and cultural pride; well and good, but that's not something that's going to make most people maintain an interest in it. Linguistic market forces, essentially, which you can't blame anyone for.

True, the English oppressed the Welsh pretty scandalously in the past, but nobody who's alive today did, and you can't blame anybody alive today for something they had nothing to do with.


Fantastic post, well done!

I'm Scottish.

I dont care who is from where.

If they're an Arse, they're an arse. Simple.

And btw Mr Condescending, we dont all have "massive chips" on our shoulders. Some of us really couldn't care less.
Never said you all did. Just said I don't like the ones that do.
Living in the North we have alot to do with the Scottish and have few problems (see my posts on Scotland as a nation state).
Just think it is strange to look back 100's of years and complain, especialy when alot of the facts are overlook for Conveniences sake.
Sorry if I upset you/ annoyed you. :?

Great idea. Send all the Welsh in England back to Wales, all the Scottish back to Scotland and the English will have better employment prospects. Stop the English spending money in Wales and Scotland and make a real job of thier economies.
And Scotland can have the money from the oil in the middle of the north sea as soon as they pay (with interest) the money back they got for disolving thier parliment.
Christ I'm sick and Welsh and Scots with such chips on thier sholders I'm suprised they can walk!
Be proud to be Scottish or Welsh as I am to be English, but don't play the blamless inocents!
God what a bore!!!

:roll: what I meant was that certain communities are being destroyed by the influx of rich bastards buying the homes in the area, driving up the house prices, driving the population out of the area and basically having a detrimental effect on the character of the area, Wales has historically been characterised by teh strength of its communities, so I don't think its extreme to want to have some small legislation to protect them in certain areas, it doesn't have to far reaching, simply a check on how many second homes or incomers enter the country, I really don't think you can understand the issue from an external veiwpoint, but tempers are being raised by it, particularly since the language is suffering in these communities as a result of Weslh speakers being forced out of the area.

Great idea. Send all the Welsh in England back to Wales, all the Scottish back to Scotland and the English will have better employment prospects. Stop the English spending money in Wales and Scotland and make a real job of thier economies.
And Scotland can have the money from the oil in the middle of the north sea as soon as they pay (with interest) the money back they got for disolving thier parliment.
Christ I'm sick and Welsh and Scots with such chips on thier sholders I'm suprised they can walk!
Be proud to be Scottish or Welsh as I am to be English, but don't play the blamless inocents!
God what a bore!!!

:roll: what I meant was that certain communities are being destroyed by the influx of rich bastards buying the homes in the area, driving up the house prices, driving the population out of the area and basically having a detrimental effect on the character of the area, Wales has historically been characterised by teh strength of its communities, so I don't think its extreme to want to have some small legislation to protect them in certain areas, it doesn't have to far reaching, simply a check on how many second homes or incomers enter the country, I really don't think you can understand the issue from an external veiwpoint, but tempers are being raised by it, particularly since the language is suffering in these communities as a result of Weslh speakers being forced out of the area.
I accept your point, but this is a problem all over rural Britain. Holy Island in Noerthumberland for example and I sure the problem exists in the Cotswolds. Legislation re holiday homes may not be a bad thing. But it is not purely a Welsh problem.

I was at the Edinburgh tattoo and saw the Duke of Kent get heckled; he and his party were pelted with rotten turnips, too.

Ew.

It was pretty funny.

England has been oppressive over the years.

So has any other nation, given the chance.

My ancestors took part in the sack of Drogheda; the Irish hat me too I suppose.

Let it be, we can't carry these burdens forever. Let the dead past bury their dead.

Great idea. Send all the Welsh in England back to Wales, all the Scottish back to Scotland and the English will have better employment prospects. Stop the English spending money in Wales and Scotland and make a real job of thier economies.
And Scotland can have the money from the oil in the middle of the north sea as soon as they pay (with interest) the money back they got for disolving thier parliment.
Christ I'm sick and Welsh and Scots with such chips on thier sholders I'm suprised they can walk!
Be proud to be Scottish or Welsh as I am to be English, but don't play the blamless inocents!
God what a bore!!!

The English never gave money for the dissolvement of the Scottish Patliament. This was paid in increased taxation by an unwilling Scottish electorate, after the act of union to a grasping and unscrupulous Scottish Nobility, who agreed to the union only because they were able to line their own pockets.

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

The United Kingdom is made up of four countries:
Scotland
Wales
Northern Ireland
England

All four countries are part of a union

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

410 AD, when the Romans left.

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

The United Kingdom is made up of four countries:
Scotland
Wales
Northern Ireland
England

All four countries are part of a union

You seem to miss my point. (I want to know when Wales was founded AS Wales, or Cymru, whatever.

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

410 AD, when the Romans left.

That late, was it? mmm.. that's quite suprising! Still, thanks very much!

Great idea. Send all the Welsh in England back to Wales, all the Scottish back to Scotland and the English will have better employment prospects. Stop the English spending money in Wales and Scotland and make a real job of thier economies.
And Scotland can have the money from the oil in the middle of the north sea as soon as they pay (with interest) the money back they got for disolving thier parliment.
Christ I'm sick and Welsh and Scots with such chips on thier sholders I'm suprised they can walk!
Be proud to be Scottish or Welsh as I am to be English, but don't play the blamless inocents!
God what a bore!!!


The English never gave money for the dissolvement of the Scottish Patliament. This was paid in increased taxation by an unwilling Scottish electorate, after the act of union to a grasping and unscrupulous Scottish Nobility, who agreed to the union only because they were able to line their own pockets.
Yes they did. They were the representatives of your country and the defacto leaders and it was all legal (won't say honest but legal).
The amount was very very very large. Can't find the site tah states exactly how much it was but am looking.

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

410 AD, when the Romans left.

That late, was it? mmm.. that's quite suprising! Still, thanks very much!

That's not late at all! England formed gradually during the 7th., 8th and 9th centuries....

Guess you must really hate me. My ancestors pillaged, raped, and caused general mayhem in all of northern Europe from 890 to 1050.

Oh, and we founded Dublin, York, and a couple of other cities.
Come to think of it, we want those back, along with Normandy and New Foundland.

Great idea. Send all the Welsh in England back to Wales, all the Scottish back to Scotland and the English will have better employment prospects. Stop the English spending money in Wales and Scotland and make a real job of thier economies.
And Scotland can have the money from the oil in the middle of the north sea as soon as they pay (with interest) the money back they got for disolving thier parliment.
Christ I'm sick and Welsh and Scots with such chips on thier sholders I'm suprised they can walk!
Be proud to be Scottish or Welsh as I am to be English, but don't play the blamless inocents!
God what a bore!!!


The English never gave money for the dissolvement of the Scottish Patliament. This was paid in increased taxation by an unwilling Scottish electorate, after the act of union to a grasping and unscrupulous Scottish Nobility, who agreed to the union only because they were able to line their own pockets.
Yes they did. They were the representatives of your country and the defacto leaders and it was all legal (won't say honest but legal).
The amount was very very very large. Can't find the site tah states exactly how much it was but am looking.
I'm not sure what your post is saying, although I will agree that the English Parliament offered money, though it was never forthcoming. Instead, (as I mentioned before) it was the ordinary people of Scotland who were sold down the river by the leaders of both Scotland and England.

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

The United Kingdom is made up of four countries:
Scotland
Wales
Northern Ireland
England

All four countries are part of a union

You seem to miss my point. (I want to know when Wales was founded AS Wales, or Cymru, whatever.
Oops. my apologies. I thought you meant in refernce to the Assembly.

When did Wales become an officially recognised country, incidentely. I mean like totally seperated from England. Anyone know..?

410 AD, when the Romans left.

That late, was it? mmm.. that's quite suprising! Still, thanks very much!

That's not late at all! England formed gradually during the 7th., 8th and 9th centuries....

Wales, as a unified and independant country, has never existed.

I was born in England, so I'm technically English and I'm from the south which is probably the worst type (according to the rest of the UK), but I have a living relative in Wales (only one, but there you go. Can't stop people dying), I can also trace my roots to Scotland, Ireland, France and I'm quarter Austrian with family there and Germany... Not sure what my point is.... Oh that's right.... PEACE and LOVE...

Now I'm getting back into character as the most diabolical leader of the PIGS.

Wales, as a unified and independant country, has never existed.

It was a number of territories, yes, but has been unified at various points in it's history. Rhodri Mawr was the first man to rule all of Wales during the 9th century.

Wales had a system of inheritence where a man's goods and land were divided equally amongst his sons (including any illegitimate sons) so the various principalities tended to become fragmented over time.

Wales, as a unified and independant country, has never existed.

It was a number of territories, yes, but has been unified at various points in it's history. Rhodri Mawr was the first man to rule all of Wales during the 9th century.

Wales had a system of inheritence where a man's goods and land were divided equally amongst his sons (including any illegitimate sons) so the various principalities tended to become fragmented over time.

I would'nt mind wales becoming an independant country - We would save a fortune in welfare payments

Um, yeah, if you're taking that approach both continents of America as well as Australia and NZ should be handed back to the native peoples, the English and French should give their entire nations back to Celtic peoples, half of Spain should go back to North Africa, 95% of sub-Saharan Africa should retreat back to West Africa, and then we should all go back to Ethiopia and crawl into the ovaries of mitochondrial Eve.

I think this is a 'don't go there' revered Rehochipe.

The Welsh themselves were a divided people right up until Llewelen, the last true Prince of Wales and his dynasty were destroyed, in the main by the Southern Welsh.

The Southern Welsh still despise the people of the Lleyn peninsula, who in turn hate everyone else in the world, but extend the ancient Celtic tradition of warm hospitality to all!

The Welsh and Scottish have both had their chance to rule the whole shooting match; the Tudors for the Welsh, and the Stuarts for the Scots. Both of these dynasties ruled when being a King of England carried immense power. Both dynasties chose to become English... says it all!

As to the mitochondrial Eve and Ethiopia, that will do until they find out the next birthplace of humanity...

us irish celts and scots really got a shit deal didnt we

The English never gave money for the dissolvement of the Scottish Patliament. This was paid in increased taxation by an unwilling Scottish electorate, after the act of union to a grasping and unscrupulous Scottish Nobility, who agreed to the union only because they were able to line their own pockets.[/quote]
Yes they did. They were the representatives of your country and the defacto leaders and it was all legal (won't say honest but legal).
The amount was very very very large. Can't find the site tah states exactly how much it was but am looking.[/quote]
I'm not sure what your post is saying, although I will agree that the English Parliament offered money, though it was never forthcoming. Instead, (as I mentioned before) it was the ordinary people of Scotland who were sold down the river by the leaders of both Scotland and England.[/quote]

Scotland was given only 45 seats in the House of Commons and 16 seats in the House of Lords. What can only be described as a bribe of £398,085-10s English pounds was paid by England as compensation for Scotland now taking on part of England's national debt. It was also intended to repay those who had lost money investing in the Darien scheme, which failed partly due to English interference. Scotland was to keep its legal system and Kirk.

Paid to the Scottish represantatives. Don't care if they were your standard corupt politicians, they were paid. £400,000 in 1706 was a goodly sum.

But this is all pie in the sky stuff, Scotland is part on GB and there is little chance of that changing. If it did then the financila implications would be interesting.

Kirtondom wrote:

Paid to the Scottish represantatives. Don't care if they were your standard corupt politicians, they were paid. £400,000 in 1706 was a goodly sum.


The Scottish ruling classes and politicians have never been 'standard corrupt politicians'. Over the centuries they have made an art out of selling to the highest bidder and getting 'gubbed' in return. This self serving class - still in existence today, look at the current Scottish Parliament - sold Charles the First (a Scot on the English throne) to Cromwell, Wallace to Edward I, and Bonnie Prince Charlie to George.

But this is all pie in the sky stuff, Scotland is part on GB and there is little chance of that changing. If it did then the financila implications would be interesting.

Under the EU, it should be quite possible for a nation of 6 millions to exist independently from England, unfortunately I don't think the traits described above have changed, and Scotland's poor would get poorer and increase dramatically in numbers.

to the english hater


you are a coward

There's very little to be said in response to this. It's really quite a rubbish thread, made by someone who's clearly chewing on sour grapes after the rugby on saturday...

I learn much of engrish in school, never I much rike for speaking. writing in which I fail as much often. stupid amerikajin travelors, fathers shop wrecked. America much worse than Britts as for language much impossible as well for learining on both of accounts. Long live Nipon.

I agree with that though.

Kirtondom wrote:

Paid to the Scottish represantatives. Don't care if they were your standard corupt politicians, they were paid. £400,000 in 1706 was a goodly sum.


The Scottish ruling classes and politicians have never been 'standard corrupt politicians'. Over the centuries they have made an art out of selling to the highest bidder and getting 'gubbed' in return. This self serving class - still in existence today, look at the current Scottish Parliament - sold Charles the First (a Scot on the English throne) to Cromwell, Wallace to Edward I, and Bonnie Prince Charlie to George.

But this is all pie in the sky stuff, Scotland is part on GB and there is little chance of that changing. If it did then the financila implications would be interesting.

Under the EU, it should be quite possible for a nation of 6 millions to exist independently from England, unfortunately I don't think the traits described above have changed, and Scotland's poor would get poorer and increase dramatically in numbers.
So my point now is. Is it right to blame the English for what is essentially a betrayal by those in power?
Why does the finger always point at the English? Most of what happed north of the border was supported by a significant number of Scotts (not a majority possibly but it was not just England V's Scotland as has been portrayed.
More like England and the lowland Scots against The highland Scots and the French.

.You may be interested to read this extract, which states the reality of where the money came from, namely the Scots (who never wanted the union in the first place)
Incidentally, Scotland also retained it's own education system as well as control of legal tender, even today there are 4 different versions of Sterling still in use.

In a petition to the Queens commissioners and the Parliament, the Convention of Royal Burghs said: " Seeing, by the articles of Union, now under the consideration of the Honourable Estates of Parliament, it is agreed that Scotland and England shall be united into one kingdom; and that the united kingdoms be united by one and the same Parliament, by which our monarchy Is suppressed, our parliament extinguished, and in consequence our religion, church government, claim of right, laws, liberties, trade and all that is dear to us, daily in danger of being encroached upon, altered or wholly subverted by the English In a British Parliament, wherein the mean representation allowed for Scotland can never signify in securing to us the interest reserved by us, or granted to us by the English.
And by these articles our poor people are made liable to the English taxes which is a certain unsupportable burden, considering that the trade proposed is uncertain, involved and wholly precarious, especially when regulated as to export and import by the laws of England, and under the same prohibitions and restrictions, customs and duties. And considering that the most considerable branches of our trade are differing from those of England, and are, and may be yet more discouraged by their laws and that all the concerts of trade and our interest are, after the Union, subject to such alterations as the Parliament of Great Britain shall think fit:
We therefore supplicate your Grace [the Queen's representative] and the Honourable Estates of Parliament, and do assuredly expect that ye will not conclude such an Incorporate Union, as is contained in the articles proposed, but that ye will support and maintain the true Reformed Protestant Religion and Church Government, as by law established, the sovereignty and independency of this crown and kingdom, and the rights and privileges of (Scottish) Parliament. "

What a load of drivel by a lot of Welsh-hating little Englanders.

Get your facts straight guys!

It really beggars belief that anyone who's English can hate the Welsh or the Scottish so much. Why?

here we go

If the Welsh hate the English they say it not Racist

If i said i hate the Welsh it IS racist

DOUBLE STANDARDS

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.

Stop being self-righteous.

We could have rebelled like my Irish ancestors and killed out the bloody redcoats, but we didn't have the balls. Bloody hell, we have no right to complain about them. Besides, if it wasn't for them owning land and country homes in places like Pembrokeshire we wouldn't have such a great economy.

Celtic culture still exists, a diltued version of itself but it's there. I am in support of a United Celtic Homeland encompassing Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, and Brittany. Sure we all have our bad deeds, but the "Old" British Empire has commited much more than our Celtic Ancestors. Plus, most British won't like to hear this but most of them have a partial Celtic ancestry. I believe in forgiving the transgressors but remembering what happened.

here we go

If the Welsh hate the English they say it not Racist"Who says it's not racist?"

If i said i hate the Welsh it IS racist "yes you're right it is racist!"

DOUBLE STANDARDS
What. you want that we should all be racist towards each other? I don't agree with the guy who started this thread, but I do acknowledge the points he makes. The English also stamped out the Gaelic language in Scotland, caused the massacres in the Highland clearances as well as making the wearing of tartan illegal (at least until the time of Victoria)

What a load of drivel by a lot of Welsh-hating little Englanders.

Get your facts straight guys!

It really beggars belief that anyone who's English can hate the Welsh or the Scottish so much. Why?
I don't know who you are addressing your comments to but I don’t hate the Welsh or the Scots as people, only a small group of each that insist on keeping prejudice alive.
The vast majority of English people I know don’t give a knack about the Scots or the Welsh they view them as they do people from another county.
The English appear to be a convenient people to blame.
And on the Highland clearances, there were a few Scots involved with that as well. You can't disown them and say they were English just because they were in it for the money and happened to be rich, they were Scots. But I admit it was us, the nasty English that started it all off.
But no one is inocent in all this, lets put it down to ancient history and get on with the present. I will even forgive that Welsh try from a forward pass if I can get a tight smile from my Welsh friends. :wink:

Imagine a family with four children - One of the children is smart intelligent and talented. The others frankly are not yet the older better brother supports and indeed love his brothers. The brothers out od jealousy hate the older brother because he is better than they are and wish him harm at ever turn.

This metaphor of the relationship between England and the other members of the UK.

[quote="Kirtondom"]quote]quote]
I live in England, though I am Scottish. I don't hate any English people, that I personally know. It's true that England is responsible for causing much disaffection around the world, they had good practice firstly with their first colonies (Wales, Ireland and Scotland) They have been responsible for brutalities around the world, in the time of Empire. (Yes I know Scotland etc was part of that, though I would rather then Act of union had never happened). There are always those who take the bribe and benefit from it......at least I know my ancestors remained poor farmers in Dumfries, Galloway and Ayrshire over the past 300 years, so my family is not reponsible for any of that. :)

It's important to remember the past, it's the only way lessons can be learned for the future.

Imagine a family with four children - One of the children is smart intelligent and talented. The others frankly are not yet the older better brother supports and indeed love his brothers. The brothers out od jealousy hate the older brother because he is better than they are and wish him harm at ever turn.

This metaphor of the relationship between England and the other members of the UK.
Did he give the other brothers the following? Or was it his younger brother Scot? :lol:

Logarithms
The Bank of England
Capitalism
The overdraft
The decimal point

The threshing machine
The gravitating compass
Street lighting
The steam engine
The pneumatic tyre
The pedal bicycle
Tarmacadam (the modern road surface)
The locomotive
The bus
The telegraph
The thermos flask
The telephone
The gas mask
Colour photographs
The lawnmower
Television
The fax machine
The photocopier
Video
The kaleidoscope

Theory of combustion
Electric light
Geology
Gardenias
Helium
Radar
Neon
Artificial ice
Dolly, the cloned sheep

The hypodermic syringe
Anaesthesia
Morphine
Antiseptics
Insulin
Penicillin
Interferon
The thermometer
Ante-natal clinics

Golf
Curling
Shinty
Tennis courts
The bowling green

Marmalade
Writing paper
The fountain pen
Postcards
The Mackintosh (aka raincoats)

Finger-printing
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Documentary films
The traffic cone
Sherlock Holmes

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Oh how I hate the English. If not for them I could be speaking Welsh Or Pict or French or Spanish. If not for them we wouldn't have to put up with American presidents. If not for them democracy would be defunct. If not for them I wouldn't have to put up with all this new-fangled industry. If not for them I could be living a short and painful life scraping my existance off the land.
What bastards those English are.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~webpage/pmoore/picpages/images/freeman1_certificate.jpg

Morphine, marmalade, macs, and malt beverages.
What would our quality of life be without them?

Morphine, marmalade, macs, and malt beverages.
What would our quality of life be without them?
Perhaps, we would still be living a feudalistic life without the benefits the Scots have given. You for one would not be sitting at your pC extolling the virtues of your favourite drugs and breakfast preserves. Incidentally, just how clean is your Mac? :lol:

Hmmmm...I guess that's why my ancestors left so long ago, my family can't remember when we first got to the North American continent. Definitely before the Revolution.....

Joe Stalin
Yawn!
Some dubious claims there mind.
Won't list the English inventions as I have not got the time and the list would be too long!
I say typing on my Computer! get the hint .NO well I can't be bother with this petty drivel any more, bring back Northumbria, those dashed Scots pinching part of our kingdom.

Imagine a family with four children - One of the children is smart intelligent and talented. The others frankly are not yet the older better brother supports and indeed love his brothers. The brothers out od jealousy hate the older brother because he is better than they are and wish him harm at ever turn.

This metaphor of the relationship between England and the other members of the UK.
Did he give the other brothers the following? Or was it his younger brother Scot? :lol:

Logarithms
The Bank of England
Capitalism
The overdraft
The decimal point

The threshing machine
The gravitating compass
Street lighting
The steam engine
The pneumatic tyre
The pedal bicycle
Tarmacadam (the modern road surface)
The locomotive
The bus
The telegraph
The thermos flask
The telephone
The gas mask
Colour photographs
The lawnmower
Television
The fax machine
The photocopier
Video
The kaleidoscope

Theory of combustion
Electric light
Geology
Gardenias
Helium
Radar
Neon
Artificial ice
Dolly, the cloned sheep

The hypodermic syringe
Anaesthesia
Morphine
Antiseptics
Insulin
Penicillin
Interferon
The thermometer
Ante-natal clinics

Golf
Curling
Shinty
Tennis courts
The bowling green

Marmalade
Writing paper
The fountain pen
Postcards
The Mackintosh (aka raincoats)

Finger-printing
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Documentary films
The traffic cone
Sherlock Holmes
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Thank you for that Joe. I've said it before and I..............well yes, sod it, I'm gonna say it again; no nation, for its population, has a record for invention anywhere near the Scots.

Do the English like the Welsh? What has Wales given to the World? They try to keep their language alive by speaking it to spite the English. I went in to a pub in Fishguard with a couple of English friends a while ago. It was like that scene from the 'Slaughtered Lamb' in An American Werewolf in London. The whole place went silent and we were stared at like a dog that has just been shown a card trick! Everyone pretended not to speak English. I thought, wow, aren't the Welsh a friendly bunch of guys? I asked my buddies if this happened all the time and they said that it had happened a few times but they try to ignore it. Nice eh? Welsh, who needs them?

Imagine a family with four children - One of the children is smart intelligent and talented. The others frankly are not yet the older better brother supports and indeed love his brothers. The brothers out od jealousy hate the older brother because he is better than they are and wish him harm at ever turn.

This metaphor of the relationship between England and the other members of the UK.
Did he give the other brothers the following? Or was it his younger brother Scot? :lol:

Logarithms
The Bank of England
Capitalism
The overdraft
The decimal point

The threshing machine
The gravitating compass
Street lighting
The steam engine
The pneumatic tyre
The pedal bicycle
Tarmacadam (the modern road surface)
The locomotive
The bus
The telegraph
The thermos flask
The telephone
The gas mask
Colour photographs
The lawnmower
Television
The fax machine
The photocopier
Video
The kaleidoscope

Theory of combustion
Electric light
Geology
Gardenias
Helium
Radar
Neon
Artificial ice
Dolly, the cloned sheep

The hypodermic syringe
Anaesthesia
Morphine
Antiseptics
Insulin
Penicillin
Interferon
The thermometer
Ante-natal clinics

Golf
Curling
Shinty
Tennis courts
The bowling green

Marmalade
Writing paper
The fountain pen
Postcards
The Mackintosh (aka raincoats)

Finger-printing
Encyclopaedia Britannica
Documentary films
The traffic cone
Sherlock Holmes
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Thank you for that Joe. I've said it before and I..............well yes, sod it, I'm gonna say it again; no nation, for its population, has a record for invention anywhere near the Scots.
How many of these before the union?
No benefit from the union then?
Yawn yawn yawn.
Sweeps up chips falling from Scots shoulders. Uses them to fire the becons signalung the return of Northumbria.
Pick a point in history when where you lived was great then complain about all the world events that have changed it since then. Some one debuncks your argument, simply move your time line a couple of years and start again.

To respond to all the bile spouted by the Scots and Welsh (although less so by the Irish), the fact is that most people in England couldn't give a toss whether you like us or not; we tend to support your teams in football and rugby etc (unless you're playing us, but that's fiar enough). Scottish people would rather they lost a match than England won one - this might help to explain some results, but it's a pretty self-harming opinion.

If you're Scottish/Welsh/Irish (or from anywhere for that matter) try talking to English people instead of harbouring centuries-old grudges and childish pre-conceptions. Most people in England are actually quite welcoming - as are most people I have met, particularly in Wales and Ireland, although less so in Scotland - and I was born there as a MacDonald...

There's worse things happening in the world than the 'oppression' of the Welsh and Scottish people - if the people of those nations really wanted independence why do the SNP (Scottish National Party) and Plaid Cymru (Welsh approximate equivalent) not win majorities in their respective communities? Also, don't forget how much money goes FROM England to the other nations rather than flowing the other way...

Thank you for that Joe. I've said it before and I..............well yes, sod it, I'm gonna say it again; no nation, for its population, has a record for invention anywhere near the Scots.[/quote]

How many of these before the union?
No benefit from the union then?
Yawn yawn yawn.
Sweeps up chips falling from Scots shoulders. Uses them to fire the becons signalung the return of Northumbria.
Pick a point in history when where you lived was great then complain about all the world events that have changed it since then. Some one debuncks your argument, simply move your time line a couple of years and start again.[/quote]
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

You're a bit of a simpleton aren't you. I can't speak for Joe But I'm English.

U stupid people how dare u doubt the English, The english rule, the Welsh are on they're own little island with a billion sheep, never doubt the english or i will burn Wales, I dosent even deserve a capital letter. Ow yea and sayin that u hate the queen and that is treason and u can be shot for it, o.k. sorted

Okay, seeing as I posted so vehemently for the Monarchy I shall again be forced to defend the Crown, Her Majesty's Government and the Act of the Union.

Lets see, now where shall I begin? Shall we start from the beginning? Yes, best place to start. Firstly, the English under Edward 1st, however misguided or justified they believed themselves to be did invade Wales and subsequently defeated Wales in a long war but lets get one thing straight. That was done a long time ago, not by this society and not be this Government but by an authoritarian king 700 years ago.

Secondly, to declare Wales independent would prove so disastrous for Wales itself, you'd be heading for decades of recession and national poverty. Wales, is irrevocably linked and attached to the UK economy. wales is as much a part of the United Kingdom as Scotland is or Northern Ireland.

Thirdly, the Welsh Assembly that was formed under Tony Blair has revived the Welsh economy, Gordon Browns handling of the economy very good and because of this and a lot of investment and reform, Wales has transformed itself from a somewhat outdated mining industry into a larger modern service/manufacturing based industry. Even so, Wales' economy is worth some £25 Billion compared to the mighty UK economy worth some £800-900 Billion a year.

English Taxes my friend, support your Health Service, your schools, your pensioners, hell, your mums Child Benefits are supported by the English, Scottish etc. Now I feel uncomfortable referring to each region or people from each region as Welsh, English and Scottish etc but frankly, you've forced me to. I refer to all people as British. Our taxes went to help you and the massive level of investment the "English" have spent on you is frankly astronomical.

But lets move on. The Prince of Wales. Well that has been a tradition since well 700 years ago. Nothing much we can do to change that. BUt lets try to put it in perspective. Would you rather have a dicatatorial King of Wales, than a Prince of Wales bound by the King/Queen of England who in itself is above politics?

On the matter of how we robbed you of your language, that in itself is laughable. Wales is free to speak Welsh though it does make investment difficult as when people weigh up the options, 2 equal locatiuons, one speaks the universal English and another speaks the relatively minor Welsh language, well it's an easy choice isn't it? Wales wouldn't stand a chance if Welsh was the first language.

I can tell you now that the United Kingdom is just that, its a number of United Kingdoms, the Kingdom of Wales, Kingdom of Scotland and Northern Ireland Uniting with the English Kingdom, by far the most economically powerful and most militarily capable, that is undisputed. All Kingdoms are equal all have been given proportional representation in Westminster, have their own versions of Parliament and their own cultures, laws and systems.

Hell, England has adapted Britain has adapted and made provisions for those wishing to speak Welsh, Acts of Parliament and the Welsh Assembly that encourage and nurture the speaking of Welsh, the revival of the Welsh Economy and you dare say that Wales would be better off without the UK? Firstly, the majority of Wales would not allow it, Parliament would not allow it, the Queen would not allow it and most certainly, although relatively unimportant, I wouldn't allow it sooner to fight to keep it.

Which brings me on to another matter, we are all so intergrated nowadays I frankly do not see the distinction between Welsh, English or Scottish, an attack on Wales, an attack on Scotland or Northern Ireland is an attack on the Whole United Kingdom, no difference, me being more English than anything, I'd fight for Scotland or Wales as much as England, in fact I'd be fighting for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and any attack on it's sovereign territory is the same to me. Dammit, I'd fight for Queen and Country i'd fight for you, your family and your community, i'd go and kick someones arse if i'd have to and kill them if they were to invade any part of the UK, be it Wales or Scotland.

Now that was the way I was brought up, not to recognise the distinction but to recognise all as being British rather than separate as Welsh Scottish and English and the Irish, but if you do, then I say you are not representative of Wales but a deranged minority as Plaid Cymru is still a minority party in Wales with a National Labour party being by far the larger political party in Wales.

So in summary, the Welsh economy is dependent on the UK as a whole, the Welsh economy is a mere few percent of the National GDP as a whole, centuries of tradition and relavently peaceful and fair rule as well as massive sums of investment, encouragement and nurturing, Wales is as much a part of the UK as any other region if not more integral.

Imagine a family with four children - One of the children is smart intelligent and talented. The others frankly are not yet the older better brother supports and indeed love his brothers. The brothers out od jealousy hate the older brother because he is better than they are and wish him harm at ever turn.

This metaphor of the relationship between England and the other members of the UK.

No, it isn't jealousy, its fucking arrogance and bollocks like that post.

You can't get shot for treason, you can however get life. Up until 1998, you could still be hanged from the gallows within HM Prisons for that offence.

Thank you for that Joe. I've said it before and I..............well yes, sod it, I'm gonna say it again; no nation, for its population, has a record for invention anywhere near the Scots.

How many of these before the union?
No benefit from the union then?
Yawn yawn yawn.
Sweeps up chips falling from Scots shoulders. Uses them to fire the becons signalung the return of Northumbria.
Pick a point in history when where you lived was great then complain about all the world events that have changed it since then. Some one debuncks your argument, simply move your time line a couple of years and start again.[/quote]
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif
You're a bit of a simpleton aren't you. I can't speak for Joe But I'm English.[/quote]

Thanks for your comments Spherical, I agree with your comment re Kirtondon. I am proud that I had the good fortune to have been born in Scotland :wink:

Speaking of chips on shoulders, Kirtondon. You are aware of the term "Little Englander" do you know of a similar term for Scotland?

Loving your country doesn't mean you have to hate anyone else's.

Bloody server :evil:

:P

Guess you must really hate me. My ancestors pillaged, raped, and caused general mayhem in all of northern Europe from 890 to 1050.

Oh, and we founded Dublin, York, and a couple of other cities.
Come to think of it, we want those back, along with Normandy and New Foundland.

Now here we have a signal point. A great deal of blame is being placed on England, but, Edward I was a Norman King, Norman French at this time was also still the court language, The Normans were Vikings who settled in France. The Normans and the Vikings destroyed the kingdoms of Britain between them. The Normans welded the whole lot back together in a different form.

Most of the 'heroes' of Scotland and Wales were at the very least of mixed Norman blood i.e: William Wallace = Guilliam de Wallayes - William of Wales, a Norman knight whose grandfather had moved from Wales and settled in Scotland, not quite the Mel Gibson impression we are given, is it? Even Hotspur of Wales was of Norman descent.

Fact 90% of the wealth of Britain is in the hands of 10% of the population.

Fact 90% of the 90% of the wealth of Britain is in the hands of families who trace their descent back to the Norman conquest.

I don't know why I started this whole train of logic but I lost it badly somewhere along the way :roll: .

But believe me it's the Normans/Swedes/Danes/Norwegians we ought to be having a go at!!!!!

As an Englishman currently at University in Wales I've found some of the comments on here amusing, some disgusting- from both sides. Frankly I don't care where somebody comes from, if you're an arsehole you're an arsehole, most people here thankfully aren't. But then, it's fine to be proud of your country and heritage (much as others may point out the evils commited by your ancestors), but nationalism is no excuse for acting badly toward others- nobody is 'better' than everyone else just because they happen to be born in a particular country... when a child is born he or she has no idea they're English or Welsh or Scottish or whatever, it's society that makes up people's perceptions and prejudices toward others for them.

Living in Wales, some part of me feels I ought to attempt to learn the language, but although I've picked up a little bit, as I have to work as well as study, and don't think I'll be staying here (much as I love the place) after I graduate, learning a language that might be as hard to grasp from having no prior knowledge is unfortunately too much to ask. But I have realised this- many English, and Scottish and other students from all over the world can come to this university (Aberystwyth BTW), live here for three whole years, and yet make no Welsh friends, learn absolutely no Welsh (even those who have much more time on their hands as I do), and learn absolutely nothing about Welsh history. They might as well have gone to Exeter or Lancaster or somewhere English. The reason why, I think, is because in the first year the English speakers and the native Welsh speakers are divided into seperate halls, seperate lectures, making friends there, etc., and thus is created a 'them' and 'us' culture. So the English-speaking students here, not really knowing anyone Welsh, might come to regard all Welsh people in a negative light if they end up in a pub having a huge crowd singing "I'd rather be a Paki than a Saes" at them, and the Welsh students might come to regard the English as ignorant. Each is a self-fulfilling view, because people only remember the bad things, not the good- even over hundreds of years, which explains why some of the postings on here talk of events in the 12th Century or even longer ago. If we don't try to get to know each other, and realise what we have in common, then ugly Nationalism of the type that began this thread can only get worse, something which will inevitably be exploited by unscrupulous leaders in the end, as history has shown time and again. A lot of Welsh people here would vote Plaid Cymru, for example, every time, regardless of whether the candidate standing was the best person for the job (though PC are by no means a bad party). Look at the times when nationalism has led people to rally behind a leader they felt an affinity to just because he or she was 'one of them', and then that leader's incompetence or pure greed has only made the situation worse for everyone.

Be proud of who you are and where you come from. But don't let it define you- your actions can do that well enough. And as I said, if you're an arsehole, you're an arsehole....

Be proud of who you are and where you come from. But don't let it define you- your actions can do that well enough. And as I said, if you're an arsehole, you're an arsehole....


Very well said. Let's forget all this you, us and them crap! There are great things to be enjoyed from every nation. With some you just have to look a little harder.

It is illogical to direct hatred to an entire people. Though it is preferable that you should revoke your hate altogether and forgive our barbarous ancestors; it would be more logical to direct your hatred at those who have trully earnt it. Primarily, your hatred should be directed to those ancestors directly responsible for the rape of Wales and to the English Parliament and Welsh Assembly who are no doubt involved in the slow irrelevance of the Welsh Language. Please refrain from what is most definitely racism.

Loving your country doesn't mean you have to hate anyone else's.

In the US, I think it's required to hate, or at least moderately dislike, EVERYONE else's country, or you aren't partriotic or a true American. :roll:

Loving your country doesn't mean you have to hate anyone else's.

In the US, I think it's required to hate, or at least moderately dislike, EVERYONE else's country, or you aren't partriotic or a true American. :roll:

I spoke up once before in this forum, to remind my fellow celts that hate is a strong passion to use against a largely innocent population. But the beligerence of the pro-UK people in this thread has made me wish to speak up again...

It is undeniable that the Irish, Welsh and Scots have suffered greatly at the hands of the "British" Crown. For a start, you're not "British", your ancestors killed those people off long ago.(I should know, my people fled north from the marauding germanic tribes, to Loch Lomond) The point that modern celtic nations are trying to make is that their ways of life are dying. As a cultural, and racial grouping, they are on the verge of losing their identity. This, coupled with past tragedies, has let to to hate and anger directed at(namely) the English.

However, the logic behind this is flawed. It would be better to blame the Germans, who were responsible for the original invasions and later occupation. Or the Italians, who as the Roman Empire weakened and slaughtered the free Celtic nations until they were weak enough for their neighbours(Franks, Saxons, Angles, Jutes, etc.) to invade and occupy.

In short, don't say you have the moral highground, Anglemen, because you don't. If a people wish to be free of your precious Commonwealth, then let them! Believe us, we would have been fine without you, and who knows what sort of world we would live in. I could very well be living on the the banks of loch lomond, with my people all around me. Instead, I am in exile as are so many of us, celtic lines that have lost their land and their family, but still remember the tales of the old country.

And thank you, Episteme, Arseholes can come from all nations...just take the Campbell's as an example.(yes, yes...I know, it was their ancestors...but bad blood is still bad blood...)

Thank you for that Joe. I've said it before and I..............well yes, sod it, I'm gonna say it again; no nation, for its population, has a record for invention anywhere near the Scots.

How many of these before the union?
No benefit from the union then?
Yawn yawn yawn.
Sweeps up chips falling from Scots shoulders. Uses them to fire the becons signalung the return of Northumbria.
Pick a point in history when where you lived was great then complain about all the world events that have changed it since then. Some one debuncks your argument, simply move your time line a couple of years and start again.[/quote]
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

You're a bit of a simpleton aren't you. I can't speak for Joe But I'm English.[/quote]
What are you on about?
Nice to see that logical debate wins out and we don't sink to the level of eight year olds in the play ground.
The point I was trying to make obviously badly was this: Anyone can hark back to a point in history that they like and say what if? Italians could think what if the Roman Empire never fell etc. To quote a crude but accurate saying ‘If my aunty had balls she would be my uncle’.
Things happened along time ago good and bad and I can see no point harking back to them.
To hate a group of people for what their ancestors did is the act of a simpleton. If my sarcasm and feeble attempts at humour did not amuse I won’t apologise I’ll do what the adult does when confronted by the petulant teenager and walk away.
I know I ramble but I don’t care.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: But thank you for biting it makes my day a little brighter.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All regions of the UK be it Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or England have played a part. The Scottish played a part in the reform of our financial systems etc, Wales, played part in the industrial might of the UK and England, provided the investment and science and the population.

All sides are equal, no region is "better" than another.

I'm still amazed by the ammount of rubish posted here.

Hotspur of Wales? Who was he then?
Wales being a net winner in uk taxation? Pull the other one!

The biggest confusion of all though, is that people mistake feelings for a nation as feelings for individual members of that nation.

It's quite possible to dislike England and what it stands for but still like individual English men and women.

Hotspur of Wales? Who was he then?

He was a Percy wasn't he? Allied to the last Welsh Prince of Wales...

Hotspur of Wales? Who was he then?

For someone basing their hatred on historical wrongs, you really do give yourself credibility don't you.... :lol:

It's quite possible to dislike England and what it stands for but still like individual English men and women.

Here's the common ground; I too hate the English, but I've rarely met an English person I didn't like.

It is undeniable that the Irish, Welsh and Scots have suffered greatly at the hands of the "British" Crown. For a start, you're not "British", your ancestors killed those people off long ago.(I should know, my people fled north from the marauding germanic tribes, to Loch Lomond) The point that modern celtic nations are trying to make is that their ways of life are dying. As a cultural, and racial grouping, they are on the verge of losing their identity. This, coupled with past tragedies, has let to to hate and anger directed at(namely) the English.

Ok, lets try and get away from modern mythology, please! :roll:

Historically, it appears that the earliest 'tribal civilisation' that we are aware of in Britain would be the picts. The 'Book of Invasions tells us that in Ireland it was the Fir Bolg, but they left no trace but their name. The First 'Celtic' Invaders of Britain would appear to be the Welsh/Cornish/ Bretons who gave their name to the Island, in Ireland it was the Milesians - a Celt-Iberian tribe from Spain. Later the Gauls invaded, these were a different celtic nation. They pushed back the 'Welsh' into the West of the Island - Somerset & West, Wales, Cheshire, Cumbria (Cwmbri), Dumfries and Galloway, Ayrshire and Parts of Lanarkshire.

THE ROMANS CAME

THE ROMANS LEFT

Germanic tribes settled in the East, by invitation, they stayed too long and wanted too much. The, by this time mongrel, 'British' tried to push them back, they failed. The Angles and Saxons then took the fight to them, won much of the country and created kingdoms. At the same time the Scots, an Irish tribe, saw their chance and invaded the West of Scotland, pushing the Welsh south and the Picts east, whilst the Mercian Kingdom pushed the Picts north.

We now have the picture where the fun can start. In what is now Scotland, the three nations: Dal Riada, Pictland, and Mercia, get on quite well, and gradually become assimilated into Scotland under the attacks of the Vikings. The Saxon Kingdoms merge under the same threat. The many seperate Irish Kingdoms go the same way. Wales is reduced back to roughly where it is now, the landward link to Cornwall is lost and Cornwall goes it's own way.

Somewhere around this time the Celtic Catholic Church is superceded by the Roman Catholic Church, and the whole emphasis on law changes.

1066......... :twisted:

TWLL DIN POB SAIS!!!!!!!!!

FFYCIA'R SAESON!!!!!!!!

Cofiwch Tryweryn. Ffycin' Lladron dwr.

Although I can understand the annoyance of the author of this thread, it has to be said that hating the English of today for something that happened over 700 years ago is a bit redundant. Good grief, there are some people who still harp on about the "Burning Times" and try to blame Christians of today for those acts too. They usually get very short shrift from me on that one, I can assure you.

I am Cornish. Not through choice, but hey, that's what you get for having a family that doesn't move around much. I'm not about to start getting snotty about the reduction of the Duchy to a mere county of England. I'm not about to go rambling on about how terrible it is the Cornish language is dying out faster than sea monkeys kept in hydrochloric acid. It just happens, so, you can either work with it and carve out your own little niche, or continue to rant, rave and yell but do nothing, ensuring that what you fear actually does come to pass.

When it comes to the holiday homes and retirement immigrants to Wales...Guess what, it's a UK wide problem. In some towns, (such as Plymouth, just across the Tamar bridge from Cornwall), there are so many people retiring there and buying holiday homes (because it is by the sea), that businesses are moving OUT in order to find a workforce they can rely on. Upshot of that is that those people from that area find it increasingly more difficult to find work and therefore can no longer afford to live in their home town. Deal with it. They do, and they don't try finding problems from several centuries ago to pin their frustration on.

Anyway, that's it from me, you'll be glad to hear.

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.

Sheepshagger. Thats a strong word. Quite applicable to the Welsh and Falkland Islanders....

:roll:

TWLL DIN POB SAIS!!!!!!!!!

Now that just wasn't very nice, and read some Terry Pratchett for an explanation of what multiple exclamation marks means...

Anyway, my take on the whole situation (as a Welshman living in England, feeling the hireath biting...):

The English media from the Beeb to the Sun, paint quite a condescending and disgusting picture of the Welsh, which increases the Welsh hatred of the whole of England. It really does seem to be 'okay' to take the piss out of Wales in a way in which it isn't out of other countries, and if the welsh don't laugh, well, they just don't have a sense of humour, right... :roll:

Most of this humour is just nasty, spiteful and pointless humour, people laugh because it makes them feel superior to others.

Basically there is no call for hating all Englishpeople, but certain attitudes need to change on both sides, Welsh nationalism has historically been a seperate beats from English nationalism, it has involved more pride in the acheivements of the Weslh, and independence to forge our own destiny as a seperate country, and why not? So a hatred of English people should not be a feature of it.

However the English don't help matters, go to Rhyl and you will see why, slowly the whole of North east Wales is being made an extension of scouse culture rather than Welsh culture, its not nice to see and really does feel like cultural imperialism, people entering Wales really should treat it as a separate country and respect its difference from England.

And to the guy that complained about Welsh people speaking Welsh in a pub in Wales-
Cae dy geg os gwelwch yn dda

TWLL DIN POB SAIS!!!!!!!!!

Now that just wasn't very nice, and read some Terry Pratchett for an explanation of what multiple exclamation marks means...

Anyway, my take on the whole situation (as a Welshman living in England, feeling the hireath biting...):

The English media from the Beeb to the Sun, paint quite a condescending and disgusting picture of the Welsh, which increases the Welsh hatred of the whole of England. It really does seem to be 'okay' to take the piss out of Wales in a way in which it isn't out of other countries, and if the welsh don't laugh, well, they just don't have a sense of humour, right... :roll:

Most of this humour is just nasty, spiteful and pointless humour, people laugh because it makes them feel superior to others.

Basically there is no call for hating all Englishpeople, but certain attitudes need to change on both sides, Welsh nationalism has historically been a seperate beats from English nationalism, it has involved more pride in the acheivements of the Weslh, and independence to forge our own destiny as a seperate country, and why not? So a hatred of English people should not be a feature of it.

However the English don't help matters, go to Rhyl and you will see why, slowly the whole of North east Wales is being made an extension of scouse culture rather than Welsh culture, its not nice to see and really does feel like cultural imperialism, people entering Wales really should treat it as a separate country and respect its difference from England.

And to the guy that complained about Welsh people speaking Welsh in a pub in Wales-
Cae dy geg os gwelwch yn dda

TWLL DIN POB SAIS!!!!!!!!!

Now that just wasn't very nice, and read some Terry Pratchett for an explanation of what multiple exclamation marks means...

Anyway, my take on the whole situation (as a Welshman living in England, feeling the hireath biting...):

The English media from the Beeb to the Sun, paint quite a condescending and disgusting picture of the Welsh, which increases the Welsh hatred of the whole of England. It really does seem to be 'okay' to take the piss out of Wales in a way in which it isn't out of other countries, and if the welsh don't laugh, well, they just don't have a sense of humour, right... :roll:

Most of this humour is just nasty, spiteful and pointless humour, people laugh because it makes them feel superior to others.

Basically there is no call for hating all Englishpeople, but certain attitudes need to change on both sides, Welsh nationalism has historically been a seperate beats from English nationalism, it has involved more pride in the acheivements of the Weslh, and independence to forge our own destiny as a seperate country, and why not? So a hatred of English people should not be a feature of it.

However the English don't help matters, go to Rhyl and you will see why, slowly the whole of North east Wales is being made an extension of scouse culture rather than Welsh culture, its not nice to see and really does feel like cultural imperialism, people entering Wales really should treat it as a separate country and respect its difference from England.

And to the guy that complained about Welsh people speaking Welsh in a pub in Wales-
Cae dy geg os gwelwch yn dda

TWLL DIN POB SAIS!!!!!!!!!

Now that just wasn't very nice, and read some Terry Pratchett for an explanation of what multiple exclamation marks means...

Anyway, my take on the whole situation (as a Welshman living in England, feeling the hireath biting...):

The English media from the Beeb to the Sun, paint quite a condescending and disgusting picture of the Welsh, which increases the Welsh hatred of the whole of England. It really does seem to be 'okay' to take the piss out of Wales in a way in which it isn't out of other countries, and if the welsh don't laugh, well, they just don't have a sense of humour, right... :roll:

Most of this humour is just nasty, spiteful and pointless humour, people laugh because it makes them feel superior to others.

Basically there is no call for hating all Englishpeople, but certain attitudes need to change on both sides, Welsh nationalism has historically been a seperate beats from English nationalism, it has involved more pride in the acheivements of the Weslh, and independence to forge our own destiny as a seperate country, and why not? So a hatred of English people should not be a feature of it.

However the English don't help matters, go to Rhyl and you will see why, slowly the whole of North east Wales is being made an extension of scouse culture rather than Welsh culture, its not nice to see and really does feel like cultural imperialism, people entering Wales really should treat it as a separate country and respect its difference from England.

And to the guy that complained about Welsh people speaking Welsh in a pub in Wales-
Cae dy geg os gwelwch yn dda

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

Naw, surely not! Vonners, I would expect more from you!

I agree with the original Poster....
Suprised ?... :wink:

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

If they constantly take the piss out of Wales, then that must be why England is so full of piss-heads! :roll:

Am I the only Englishman with a respect for the Welsh?

I wear my Tafarn Y Vic shirt with pride diolch yn vowr

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

If they constantly take the piss out of Wales, then that must be why England is so full of piss-heads! :roll:

Am I the only Englishman with a respect for the Welsh?

I wear my Tafarn Y Vic shirt with pride diolch yn vowr

No, I respect the Welsh and I'm English.

Imagine a family with four children - One of the children is smart intelligent and talented. The others frankly are not, yet the older better brother supports and indeed love his brothers. The brothers out of jealousy hate the older brother because he is better than they are and wish him harm at every turn.

This metaphor of the relationship between England and the other members of the UK.

No, it isn't jealousy, its f--- arrogance and bollocks like that post.

bitterness is so unbecoming....

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

If they constantly take the piss out of Wales, then that must be why England is so full of piss-heads! :roll:

Am I the only Englishman with a respect for the Welsh?

I wear my Tafarn Y Vic shirt with pride diolch yn vowr

Lesson One: Never take Vonners seriously :wink:

vowr

thats 'fawr' but well done for making the effort ;)

Now now, let's get with the stereotypes people.

The English are quite blatantly homosexual, the Scots are all raving loonies, the Northern Irish are a bit slow, and us Welshies are obvious sheep molestors.

In conclusion, we are all part of the rich tapestry of culture comprising the United Kingdom.

vowr

thats 'fawr' but well done for making the effort ;)

Corrected bach

diolch yn fawr
:D

All peoples have, in a period of their History, acted like British ancestors against the Welsh: French and their minorities, English with Quebecers, American with Native Indians, Chinese with Tibetans, Turks against Kurds, and the list goes on. It is impossible to have a complete list of all atrocities committed by a nation against another less powerful nations, colonies, occupied territories, ethnic minorities.
So, it is pointless to hate a people who ill-treated yours, as yours may certainly have ill-treated another one...
What we should all do is to think about those terrible actions, and try to do our best to avoid them in the future.
We cannot change the past, but we can still shape our future.
humm....okay....What should the "west" do about LatinAmerica and the Midle-East???

humm....okay....What should the "west" do about LatinAmerica and the Midle-East???

Well, the West, as in West of Scotland, are quite partial to a bit of LatinAmerican, such as the Bossanova, or Rumba, as long as it doesn't go on too long and interfere with 'the pipes'.

As for the East, I must point out that I'm not sure where "Midle" is, unless it is one of those small villages near Berwick upon Tweed, er, oh yes.
As for the East, well I'm sure that those people in Edinburgh will surely sort out the Parliament building soon.

Now now, let's get with the stereotypes people.

The English are quite blatantly homosexual, the Scots are all raving loonies, the Northern Irish are a bit slow, and us Welshies are obvious sheep molestors.

In conclusion, we are all part of the rich tapestry of culture comprising the United Kingdom.

Close but no coconut!

It is surely well known that the Welsh got their 'habit' from the Highlanders, who wear the kilt because sheep can hear a zipper a mile away.

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.Don't blame the English because you couldn't defend your nation and don't blame them because they treat a conquored nation like....a conquored nation.

I find it difficult to hate an entire people.....

TWLL DIN POB SAIS!!!!!!!!!

Now that just wasn't very nice, and read some Terry Pratchett for an explanation of what multiple exclamation marks means...

Anyway, my take on the whole situation (as a Welshman living in England, feeling the hireath biting...):

The English media from the Beeb to the Sun, paint quite a condescending and disgusting picture of the Welsh, which increases the Welsh hatred of the whole of England. It really does seem to be 'okay' to take the piss out of Wales in a way in which it isn't out of other countries, and if the welsh don't laugh, well, they just don't have a sense of humour, right... :roll:

Most of this humour is just nasty, spiteful and pointless humour, people laugh because it makes them feel superior to others.

Basically there is no call for hating all Englishpeople, but certain attitudes need to change on both sides, Welsh nationalism has historically been a seperate beats from English nationalism, it has involved more pride in the acheivements of the Weslh, and independence to forge our own destiny as a seperate country, and why not? So a hatred of English people should not be a feature of it.

However the English don't help matters, go to Rhyl and you will see why, slowly the whole of North east Wales is being made an extension of scouse culture rather than Welsh culture, its not nice to see and really does feel like cultural imperialism, people entering Wales really should treat it as a separate country and respect its difference from England.

And to the guy that complained about Welsh people speaking Welsh in a pub in Wales-
Cae dy geg os gwelwch yn dda

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

Could not agree more - get that chip off of your shoulder Welsh types and get on with life

I reckon we should all support Welsh independence. If the origanal poster is right, the Wlesh don't want to be part of the UK anyway.

Hmm, who thinks that Wales could survive as an independent nation?

well I'm sure that those people in Edinburgh will surely sort out the Parliament building soon.

And of course by 'soon' you mean 'possibly in our lifetime'.

well I'm sure that those people in Edinburgh will surely sort out the Parliament building soon.

And of course by 'soon' you mean 'possibly in our lifetime'.

.......and at considerable expense of course.

Och, our ruling classes never change do they?

Don't worry, if oil is found under Wales, the US will be there shortly to liberate you....

.......and at considerable expense of course.

Meh. I heard a couple of nights ago nearly £100,000,000 was wasted on 'delays'. The BBC has a report here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3562379.stm)

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.Don't blame the English because you couldn't defend your nation and don't blame them because they treat a conquored nation like....a conquored nation.

Now now, let's get with the stereotypes people.

The English are quite blatantly homosexual, the Scots are all raving loonies, the Northern Irish are a bit slow, and us Welshies are obvious sheep molestors.

In conclusion, we are all part of the rich tapestry of culture comprising the United Kingdom.

Close but no coconut!

It is surely well known that the Welsh got their 'habit' from the Highlanders, who wear the kilt because sheep can hear a zipper a mile away.

Bah, we were doing it long before those damn plagiarists. However, our technique relied largely on the lie of the land: sticking the sheeps' hooves in our wellingtons and leaning the sheep gently over a cliff.

It's...kind of consentual.

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.
I'm English and I apologise that my ancestors were complete gits? Anyway, I think the Welsh language is the most beautiful language in the world and it would be a terrible loss if it were to die out.

I see no point in speaking Welsh, ABSOLUTELY NONE! Other than some traditionist, anti-English morons, no body speaks it, not outside of Wales, not even in Wales. Jeez. Anywho, what good would independence bring, it's not like we're still oppressing you?

The only good thing to come out of Wales was Ryan Giggs, the rest? well it aint even worth talkin bout. Big up the English massive, when we're playin International football n your team is watchin it on the tv you'll have plenty of time to be bitter :D

Since the conversation turned (quite appropriately) to the sheep... :D
...what's the Welsh term for sheep shagging?

Since the conversation turned (quite appropriately) to the sheep... :D
...what's the Welsh term for sheep shagging?

Marriage ???

You see in Wales we have our signes in english and Welsh this is only bcoz of the english. In Wales we hav schools where Welsh is the main language (like every real person should go to) and we have the special schools a.k.a. the schools wher english is the main language bcoz of the english.

Why shoud we have these theres no fucking point Welsh is the language of this country not english. But this will change with just a bit of anarchy.
This will bring Welsh speaking up ok it won't be first lanuage like me and quite a lot of friends.

ANARCH I RHYDDHAI EIN GWLAD

We should also burn every english house in Wales. I don't care if they live there all the time. If they don't call them selves Welsh and they don't speak Welsh, let them burn. The Meibion Glyndwr did a good job but thers still the full timers here.

But the thing is...the only reason for the exsistance of Wales is for it to have the piss taken out of it.

If they constantly take the piss out of Wales, then that must be why England is so full of piss-heads! :roll:

Am I the only Englishman with a respect for the Welsh?

I wear my Tafarn Y Vic shirt with pride diolch yn vowr

No, I respect the Welsh and I'm English.

Likewise, except for those with an axe to grind.

You see in Wales we have our signes in english and Welsh this is only bcoz of the english. In Wales we hav schools where Welsh is the main language (like every real person should go to) and we have the special schools a.k.a. the schools wher english is the main language bcoz of the english.

Why shoud we have these theres no f--- point Welsh is the language of this country not english. But this will change with just a bit of anarchy.
This will bring Welsh speaking up ok it won't be first lanuage like me and quite a lot of friends.

ANARCH I RHYDDHAI EIN GWLAD

We should also burn every english house in Wales. I don't care if they live there all the time. If they don't call them selves Welsh and they don't speak Welsh, let them burn. The Meibion Glyndwr did a good job but thers still the full timers here.

Little pricks like you are supposed to learn something in your school history classes.

Hey, its nice to see people in Wales with some nationalistic fervour, but I don't think even Meibion Glyndwr went as far as you're proposing, we are supposed to be a tolerant nation after all, even if the English do exist.

I thought I'd just throw this in here. It is something I read in my British politics book.


On why this person voted Plaid Cymru instead of Conservative (his usual party)

"I live with Welsh people and I didn't want them throwing me over a cliff or anything"

Um, yeah, if you're taking that approach both continents of America as well as Australia and NZ should be handed back to the native peoples, the English and French should give their entire nations back to Celtic peoples, half of Spain should go back to North Africa, 95% of sub-Saharan Africa should retreat back to West Africa, and then we should all go back to Ethiopia and crawl into the ovaries of mitochondrial Eve.

Oh yeah, and did I mention I'm a quarter Welsh? And unless you're from the most remote of the Valleys, I'd imagine you're at least part English, whether you know it or not. Trying to draw a line between peoples who've assimilated each other for centuries is ridiculous. You might as well try and sort us out into Norse, Normans, Angles and Saxons.

As minorities go, the Welsh are incredibly well-treated. They've got their own Assembly which is thoroughly revitalising the country, they've got their language recognised as official (it's on every roadsign, even though the vast majority of Welsh don't speak it)... compare this to Northern Ireland, or the Basque people, or American Indians, or just about any colonised people on the frickin' planet.

The English aren't killing the Welsh language. It's actually rising in usage, largely due to the Assembly's efforts. The reason for its former decline is that, basically, English is more useful. There's no reason to speak Welsh anywhere except Wales, where only about 600,000 (2001 figures; 20% of the population) speak it. On the other hand, English is the most widely spoken language in the world, spoken at some level by roughly 25% of its population. That a higher proportion of people speak English in the world than people speak Welsh in Wales is something to bear in mind here. Basically, the only reason to speak Welsh is national and cultural pride; well and good, but that's not something that's going to make most people maintain an interest in it. Linguistic market forces, essentially, which you can't blame anyone for.

True, the English oppressed the Welsh pretty scandalously in the past, but nobody who's alive today did, and you can't blame anybody alive today for something they had nothing to do with.

well said

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I can not think of one thing of value that Wales has ever produced in its long, miserable, dirty languaged history.

Read the thread troll.

We should also burn every english house in Wales. I don't care if they live there all the time. If they don't call them selves Welsh and they don't speak Welsh, let them burn. The Meibion Glyndwr did a good job but thers still the full timers here.

see now i can see your point of not wanting your heritage eliminated but statements such as these will not help your cause one little bit.

things happened a LONG time ago and theres nothing that any of us can do to change history. so how about not getting all homicidal about it and prehaps channel that angst into something a little more proactive like promoting the welsh language and heritage etc. Which will be a lot more helpful.

Question: what do you do to help your country to keep its heritage?

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

We should also burn every english house in Wales. I don't care if they live there all the time. If they don't call them selves Welsh and they don't speak Welsh, let them burn. The Meibion Glyndwr did a good job but thers still the full timers here.

see now i can see your point of not wanting your heritage eliminated but statements such as these will not help your cause one little bit.

things happened a LONG time ago and theres nothing that any of us can do to change history. so how about not getting all homicidal about it and prehaps channel that angst into something a little more proactive like promoting the welsh language and heritage etc. Which will be a lot more helpful.

Question: what do you do to help your country to keep its heritage?

The best way to keep your countries heritage is to leave the UK. That means not voting Labour.

The best way to keep your countries heritage is to leave the UK. That means not voting Labour.

and how does that help?

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Today I hate them...they are Europeans like all those other terrorists.

Curse those slender devils!

Speaking as an Englishman who has lived in Wales for ten years (working as a Maths teacher):

I admire the strong sense of identity that Wales has, and their justifiable pride in their many achievements, but looking critically as things stand, the originator of this post raises two questions:

1) Should Wales go for Independence within Europe? There is a strong case for this as nations with small populations tend to do very well out of the EU. Scotland and Wales would gain their own representation and England would still be large enough to count as one of the big four.

If Scotland, Wales and England then co-operate on issues, much as the Scandanavians tend to, we would all be winners.


2) As for the language issue, i'm afraid that the current efforts by governments to artificially increase usage of welsh is doomed to failure. I live within 100 yards of a welsh language school in Cardiff and I have in ten years NEVER heard them speak anything but English the moment they leave the gates.

Thanks to the power of Hollywood and the almighty dollar, English is effectively the world language. If Welsh was ever to become the dominant language in Wales then it would be a third world country within a generation.

The irony of all this heated debate is that the vast majority of the white population of the island of Great Britain are all of the same genetic stock: namely ancient britons with hints of various invaders thrown in. We should be celebrating our long and distinguished history, not wallowing in self-pity.

That school you wer talking about was probably Glantaf. I go to Glantaf and the amount of Welsh spoken outside is growin this has alot to do with the nationalistic petry we study. But you do hav a point the pupils do speak a lot of english but many of the pupils do come from english speakin families so it doesnt come naturally to them. But this wudnt b a problem if it wasnt for the english

That school you wer talking about was probably Glantaf. I go to Glantaf and the amount of Welsh spoken outside is growin this has alot to do with the nationalistic petry we study. But you do hav a point the pupils do speak a lot of english but many of the pupils do come from english speakin families so it doesnt come naturally to them. But this wudnt b a problem if it wasnt for the english

If it wasn't for the English, Wales would have just been conquered by another nation (possibly France or Scotland). It seems a bit lame blaming everything on something that happened nearly a thousand years ago. Wales never could have maintain independce or become a world power if it stayed independent (neigther (sp?) could England either btw).


Prydderch: do you think Wales could be an independent nation/have stayed an independent nation if it wasn't for the English.

yes i think we cud hav com on Owain Glyndwr broke there rule

yes i think we cud hav com on Owain Glyndwr broke there rule

yes i think we cud hav com on Owain Glyndwr broke there rule


That's one man, who certainly isn't immortal. You think that Wales could have run it alone for c.800 years? How?

And this is why Canada is the best. 'Cause we don't have to deal with all this bullshit. Yay for us!

Speaking as an Englishman who has lived in Wales for ten years (working as a Maths teacher):

I admire the strong sense of identity that Wales has, and their justifiable pride in their many achievements, but looking critically as things stand, the originator of this post raises two questions:

1) Should Wales go for Independence within Europe? There is a strong case for this as nations with small populations tend to do very well out of the EU. Scotland and Wales would gain their own representation and England would still be large enough to count as one of the big four.

If Scotland, Wales and England then co-operate on issues, much as the Scandanavians tend to, we would all be winners.


2) As for the language issue, i'm afraid that the current efforts by governments to artificially increase usage of welsh is doomed to failure. I live within 100 yards of a welsh language school in Cardiff and I have in ten years NEVER heard them speak anything but English the moment they leave the gates.

Thanks to the power of Hollywood and the almighty dollar, English is effectively the world language. If Welsh was ever to become the dominant language in Wales then it would be a third world country within a generation.

The irony of all this heated debate is that the vast majority of the white population of the island of Great Britain are all of the same genetic stock: namely ancient britons with hints of various invaders thrown in. We should be celebrating our long and distinguished history, not wallowing in self-pity.

Well put. I've come to this thread a bit late but having just read through it I feel I must stick my bit in (ooer!). As a Londoner who has been living in wales (Aberystwyth again) for the last 17 years I don't think I have ever heard as much badly thought out (and badly spelt - being 1st language welsh is no excuse, sorry) racist drivel as Prydderch has spouted. I have been dubbed an honorary welshman by one of the most nationalist women I know (her father was prominent in the Free Welsh Army etc) and even she and her friends have only come out with anything anywhere as near RW as that when pissed up and usually after having lost badly at something.
I am proud of living in Wales and consider myself welsh up to a point - much more than I ever considered myself English (my ancestry being as mixed as one of the previous posters). The woman and her friends are now good friends of mine and I was proud to be in a welsh language rock band with three of them for two years, during which time we produced an album in (mostly) welsh of which i am also immensly proud.I learnt welsh out of respect for these friends and respect for the country in which I have chosen to live. I ran my own business for a while selling Welsh produce.
I love wales as much as any welshman, but I can't abide all this bloody racist nationalism. As opposed to the non-racist kind which is all very well if you want to take pride in something as irrelevant as a bunch of mostly fairly arbitrary lines drawn on a map by beaurocrats in Whitehall or wherever. In essence it's no better as the (minority) whites in Bradford or Leicester or somewhere moaning about the Pakis stealing all their jobs.

I'm Jewish. I don't hate Germans or Palestinians or any other nation despite MY race and culture being opressed and shat on repeatedly from great heights by many nations for many times longer then the welsh have been chasing sheep (joke). But I do hate racists whatever their cause and however just they may think they are in holding to that cause.
And that my friend is what you are.

[quote=Portlibeast]I'm Jewish. I don't hate Germans or Palestinians or any other nation despite MY race and culture being opressed and shat on repeatedly from great heights by many nations for many times longer then the welsh have been chasing sheep (joke). But I do hate racists whatever their cause and however just they may think they are in holding to that cause.
And that my friend is what you are.
I hope you are not accusing all welsh people on here who express anti english posts as racist. Also I think you should include Israel as oppressors against the Palastenians just to be clear that as well as being oppressed in history, present day Israle is now the oppressor. Please note it's the state I'm talking about, not the people, though those who support the oppression of Palestinians also have to take their share of responsibility.

btw there seem to be a lot of welsh users on this site. Or is it just on this thread?

[quote=Portlibeast]I'm Jewish. I don't hate Germans or Palestinians or any other nation despite MY race and culture being opressed and shat on repeatedly from great heights by many nations for many times longer then the welsh have been chasing sheep (joke). But I do hate racists whatever their cause and however just they may think they are in holding to that cause.
And that my friend is what you are.
I hope you are not accusing all welsh people on here who express anti english posts as racist. Also I think you should include Israel as oppressors against the Palastenians just to be clear that as well as being oppressed in history, present day Israle is now the oppressor. Please note it's the state I'm talking about, not the people, though those who support the oppression of Palestinians also have to take their share of responsibility.
no, certainly I am not. As an "honorary" welshman (or indeed just as a rational person) I sympathise w the welsh for the wrongs that have been done to them in the past and present by Whitehall. I have sympathy for many grievances imposed on other nations by the British government (India/Pakistan, Ireland, southern Africa - most of it! - for example) and also by other governments past and present notably the Spanish (Aztecs, Incas etc) the Portugese ( East Africa, S America again,) Dutch (S Africa, Indonesia) and of course the barbaric American governments over the years (Native Americans, Grenada, Iraq... strewth, the list is endless),but
1. this was all, as has been pointed out, mostly a long while ago when
2.imperialism was kinda hip and trendy and many lands were basically there for the taking by whoever had the greatest firepower (well some things never change)
3.these deeds done by governments not the people
This doesn't justify any of these acts, but they have to be seen in context.
Personally I'm not sure whether Wales could survive on its own - possibly it could within the EU, but I wouln't want anyone to try and prevent the welsh/scotts/irish/quebecans (is that right?)/kurds etc from giving it a go if that is what the majority want.
In Wales that is not the case. The majority are not welsh speakers (whether the english [or indeed the english language] are to blame for that is debateable) and do not want devolution.
The welsh language is a wonderful thing. If it is falling into disuse, that is not entirely the fault of the english. Many welsh use english every day NOT because they are made to but because it is handier - the same can
be said for the rest of the world. German is full of english words as Welsh is because the english invented, say the T-shirt(or th word anyway), the germans call it "das T-shirt" the welsh for church (eglwys) is obviously os Latin/French origin (eglir, eccles, ecclesiastical - all the same root). Window in Welsh is ffenestr - again from French - as it is in German.
I could go on. The point is "Wenglish" is commonplace even amongst the most fluent and vehement welsh speakers, so if the welsh language is dying out, it is really up to the welsh to do something about it (by which I don't mean acts of terrorism against the English. I agree strongly that the practice of English owned "holiday homes" in Wales is despicable, but fire-bombing them is not the answer. Let us not forget that it was a Welshman (or at least a Welsh estate agent) which sold it to them in the first place.
Incidentally I do cite Israel as an opressor, but the point I was making was of deeds done against Jews. Israel does NOT speak for the jewish peoples - and in any case was merely a puppet state set up by (mostly) the US to give them a foothold into the middle-east and its wealth (read OIL"). Personally I support the cause of the Palestinians (though not their methods) but i suspect the actions of the Israeli government are at least partly egged on by those in the US who would like to keep the middle-east nations unstable and thus prevent them from forming a united front against the west in general and the US in particular.
(something that can't happen soon enough IMO - the US govt needs taking down a peg or 20)

yes i think we cud hav com on Owain Glyndwr broke there rule

Please! Please, research your facts before you use them as propoganda!

Owen Glendower fell out with Henry IV over a land dispute, he was happily living in England up until then. He used the nationalistic feelings of the Welsh to his own advantage, he had no altruistic "national pride" reason for his guerilla warfare. He allied with the Percy's (Harry Hotspur) of Northumberland and managed to stay out of the English hands by hiding in the hills!

Owen Glendower himself led part of the English Army that oppressed the Scots!!

He may be a hero to you Welsh moaners, but he was and continues to be an evil oppressor to the Scots!

Owen Glendower - call him that and you lose all credibility, his name is Owain Glyndwr, and his motives may be in question to you, but he gave us the best chance of independence for centuries, there is a lot of respect for him here.

He used the name Glendower when he raped Scotland!

Edward The Longshanks - Great man

He sounds it....

As for what Glyndwr called himself, care to link me to an fascmile copy of one of the documents in which he signed himself 'Glendower'? I doubt one exists, its simply a phonetic English (thats actually an oxymoron) translation because English speakers can't pronounce Welsh words properly. (Except me, because I learnt it in school)

He sounds it....

As for what Glyndwr called himself, care to link me to an fascmile copy of one of the documents in which he signed himself 'Glendower'? I doubt one exists, its simply a phonetic English (thats actually an oxymoron) translation because English speakers can't pronounce Welsh words properly. (Except me, because I learnt it in school)

I presume Gohnarea that you can. However, given his successful Law Practice in London, and the comments you make about the unpronounceability of the Welsh Language to all but those gifted by God and accident of birth, I would think it highly likely that Glydwr anglicised his name for those who he needed as patrons, wouldn't you agree?

Until he faced extinction for failing to heed the call to arms from Henry IV, admittedly due to the dirty tricks of his hated English neighbour, Glyndwr appears to have nothing but respect for the English crown and the power it gives him. Indeed he fought for both Richard II and Henry, his loyalty seamless. His Nationalism only appears when he needs to raise followers to further his own cause.

Finally, although he did unite areas of Wales in a league which could have produced an independant Wales, he failed, and, when defeat became unavoidable, he disappeared into the mist. He left no walls for the Welsh to rebuild a nation from, he actually destroyed the foundations as well.

I fail to see the importance attached to Glyndwr, when real heroes like Llewellen Fawr (no doubt I got the spelling wrong again) abound in the annals of Welsh Glory.

Oh and...

Edward The Longshanks - Great man

Wrong period, wrong war, and it was 'Edward Longshanks' no 'the' :D

The comment was not not really meant to be linked to the one you were having - Just to wind up a few scotts and welsh people.

He was indeed called Edward the Longshanks in addition to Edward Longshanks or just plain Longshanks. People mainly know him as the Hammer of The Scotts.

It seems futile arguing over the spellings of names dating back to the 1400s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the written word pretty inconsistent then? Even by the 1600s, spelliongs seem often to be quite arbitrary (Shakespeare/Shakspear, etc).

It seems futile arguing over the spellings of names dating back to the 1400s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the written word pretty inconsistent then? Even by the 1600s, spelliongs seem often to be quite arbitrary (Shakespeare/Shakspear, etc).

Might even be true today, huh? :D

The comment was not not really meant to be linked to the one you were having - Just to wind up a few scotts and welsh people.

He was indeed called Edward the Longshanks in addition to Edward Longshanks or just plain Longshanks. People mainly know him as the Hammer of The Scotts.

So, are you just into pedantic archaic spellings e.g: Scotts, or do you have some point. If it's just a commentary on winding up the Scots/Welsh, Dr Samuel Johnson did it so much better than you... :roll:

Damn double post.

..And yes, the Welsh commited plenty of their own crimes, and for that matter the English aren't the only ones to wrong Wales at one time or another. To be a bit topical, St.Patrick was a Welshman taken as a slave like so many others...by the Irish. Are you going to kick off on Ireland?


Wasn't St Patrick born in Wales to an English mother and Roman father :?: :?: :?:

"Might even be true today, huh?"

*mortified*

I declare typo. And run screaming from the thread.

Zarozina i hav respect for you since that u have taken the time to learn our beatifull language. If every person had to learn Welsh this place would be much better.

And we did have to do the fire bombings. Anarch yw'r ffordd allan o unrhywbeth fel yna.

Joccia it's spelt Llewellyn Ein Llyw Olaf. it would be kind of like changing my surname because the english couldn't pronounce it ..... O wait they did.
This by the way isnt probably one of the reasons to mis spelling of Owain Glyndwr it was jsu spelt like that so that the retards cud pronounce it their way because our way was to hard for them. Before you type anything about me not knowing my shit i did my Welsh oral language individual exam on the life of Owain Glyndwr which i spent about two days researching

Before you type anything about me not knowing my shit i did my Welsh oral language individual exam on the life of Owain Glyndwr which i spent about two days researching

A whole 2 days :shock:

My point was not addressed to you, so don't flame me. Correct what I have written, if it's wrong I'll be glad to accept it and alter my view. At no time do I say anything disrespectful of the Welsh, I don't have anything but respect for them.

Llewellyn Ein Llyw Olaf was known to his own as Llewellyn Fawr was he not? He was probably greater than the heroes in the Mabinogion, Pwell, Bran, Math, all of them, because he tried to do something real.

I will, one day learn enough Welsh to read the stories from the Mabinogion in their original prose, but, just because I haven't done that yet doesn't make me Sais. I'm a Scot, and we don't need Gaelic to define us! :x

[quote="Prydderch"]Zarozina i hav respect for you since that u have taken the time to learn our beatifull language. If every person had to learn Welsh this place would be much better.

And we did have to do the fire bombings. Anarch yw'r ffordd allan o unrhywbeth fel yna.

I thank you for your respect, but this makes you also a hypocrite as well as a racist since i am originally English who you profess to despise.
Regardless of your grievances racism of this kind is intolerable in our supposedly civilised society. I have seen it many times as a child growing up in an ethnically mixed part of London against myself as well as others,
and there is no need. Please save your grievances for those who deserve them ie the politicians - AMs as well as MPs - and treat individuals as you find them. Nid anarchiaeth yw'r un ffordd allan o'r sefyllfa 'ma, neu trais a gorthrech

[quote="Prydderch"]Zarozina i hav respect for you since that u have taken the time to learn our beatifull language. If every person had to learn Welsh this place would be much better.

And we did have to do the fire bombings. Anarch yw'r ffordd allan o unrhywbeth fel yna.

I thank you for your respect, but this makes you also a hypocrite as well as a racist since i am originally English who you profess to despise.
Regardless of your grievances racism of this kind is intolerable in our supposedly civilised society. I have seen it many times as a child growing up in an ethnically mixed part of London against myself as well as others,
and there is no need. Please save your grievances for those who deserve them ie the politicians - AMs as well as MPs - and treat individuals as you find them. Nid anarchiaeth yw'r un ffordd allan o'r sefyllfa 'ma, neu trais a gorthrech

Before you type anything about me not knowing my shit i did my Welsh oral language individual exam on the life of Owain Glyndwr which i spent about two days researching

A whole 2 days :shock:

My point was not addressed to you, so don't flame me. Correct what I have written, if it's wrong I'll be glad to accept it and alter my view. At no time do I say anything disrespectful of the Welsh, I don't have anything but respect for them.

Llewellyn Ein Llyw Olaf was known to his own as Llewellyn Fawr was he not? He was probably greater than the heroes in the Mabinogion, Pwell, Bran, Math, all of them, because he tried to do something real.

I will, one day learn enough Welsh to read the stories from the Mabinogion in their original prose, but, just because I haven't done that yet doesn't make me Sais. I'm a Scot, and we don't need Gaelic to define us! :x


Actually Llewellyn Fawr was his father as in the owner of Gelert.

I supose being Welsh I have a natural hatred of the English built in.......but Wales is such a crap country, everywhere else looks promising-even England.

I LOVE the english! *Taste the sarcasm*

From an Unrepentant Fenian Bastard.......

I respect and admire the English. They are true friends of America.

Sorry what is to admire all they've tried to do is aniolaite every thing slightly different

Sorry what is to admire all they've tried to do is aniolaite every thing slightly different

As do many of the welsh nationalists

The english took over Wales back in 1282, stole our crown, changed surnames, rueined economies and are still tryin to kill our language (ond fe allwn nhw fyth lladd ein meddyliau) and they want to know why us Welsh hate them.... sorry hate that isnt strong enough give me another word something muchm, much stronger word.
How dare You!ENGLISH DID NOTHING WRONG.I love being english.Now shutup!!!!{Sorry...i'm just competive ok}Now don't be mean! :cry: or else!!! :x

or else what what form of anarchy has your country done. Don't dig yourself a grave we have (we've got braincells). Anarch yw'r unig ffordd allan o'r twll yma

or else what what form of anarchy has your country done. Don't dig yourself a grave we have (we've got braincells). Anarch yw'r unig ffordd allan o'r twll yma

I like the English. Hell if it wasn't for them America wouldn't exist. I mean afterall, America rebelled against the English and essentially it is their policies and such that created America. I give the utmost respect to the English and frankly I think that without them the world would be a much worse place then it is. They're the only European power that deserves respect.

beth ydi 'anarch' meddwl?

I love the English, I love the Scottish, Irish, and the Welsh. I just love everyone! :lol: And, no, I'm not drunk right now.
We're being rasist.Don't be mean to the english just 'cos of bad history...every country was men then...but now we're all friends!!

I love the English, I love the Scottish, Irish, and the Welsh. I just love everyone! :lol: And, no, I'm not drunk right now.
We're being rasist.Don't be mean to the english just 'cos of bad history...every country was men then...but now we're all friends!!
:oops: ... Mean I mean, not men!Anyway, can't we just forget that stupid message whatshisname put on and say english are nice.They were mean, but we forgive them.I'm english and whoever it was that posted that last one was wrong because I can't help my country's past.

Anarch yw "anarchy"

the english r fine- no matter where u go in the world, no one has as good a sense of humour and basic outlook on life as the english... besides, i'm english, so :p

You see basic outlook, only because thats the hardest they can look everything is to scary and different fo them as Dave Mustaine said "room temprature IQ". THE eNGLISH ARE HATED EVERYWHERE. Go to the Megadeth forum and check the post i did ther says it all really widespread feedback face it no one likes the english except the americans bcoz ther the same

yes

You see basic outlook, only because thats the hardest they can look everything is to scary and different fo them as Dave Mustaine said "room temprature IQ". THE eNGLISH ARE HATED EVERYWHERE. Go to the Megadeth forum and check the post i did ther says it all really widespread feedback face it no one likes the english except the americans bcoz ther the same

Riiiight. The Megadeth Forum. The name doesn't sound like it represents a broad section of world society.

I would rather live in England than the following countries:

Albania, Algeria, American Samoa, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Aruba, Ashmore and Cartier Islands, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Baker Island, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bassas da India, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Bouvet Island, Brazil, British Indian Ocea, Territory, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Cayman Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Christmas Island, Clipperton Island, Cocos Islands, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Cook Islands, Coral Sea Islands, Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, East Timor, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Europa Island, Falkland Island, Faroe Islands, Fiji, Finland, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern and Antarctic Lands, Gabon, The Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Gibraltar, Glorioso Islands, Greece, Greenland, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guam, Guatemala, Guernsey, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Heard Island and McDonald Island, Honduras, Howland Island, Hungary, Iceland , India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jan Mayen, Japan, Jarvis Island, Jersey, Johnston Atoll, Jordan, Juan de Nova Island, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kingman Reef, Kiribati, North Kore, South Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macau, Macedoni, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Isle of Man, Marshall Islands, Martinique, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mayotte, Mexico, Federated States of Micronesi, Midway Islands, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Navassa Island, Nepal, Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Niue, Norfolk Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Palmyra Atoll, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paracel Islands, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Pitcairn Islands, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Qatar, Reunion, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Saint Helena, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia and Montenegro, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands, Spain, Spratly Islands, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Svalbard, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Tokelau, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tromelin Island, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Turks and Caicos Islands, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United States, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican City, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands, Wake Island, Wallis and Futuna, Western Sahar, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zambia or Zimbabwe.

That pretty much rules out most countries

the English and French should give their entire nations back to Celtic peoples

Eh... why? The English and the French *are* the Celtic peoples.

Besides which, the Celtic people would have to give some of their lands back to the aboriginals: the Picts and the Cruithne etc.

Not only that, but 'Celt' is merely a description of a many and varied group of tribes across Europe who all vaguely shared a similar culture and common language.

Damn double post.

..And yes, the Welsh commited plenty of their own crimes, and for that matter the English aren't the only ones to wrong Wales at one time or another. To be a bit topical, St.Patrick was a Welshman taken as a slave like so many others...by the Irish. Are you going to kick off on Ireland?

Patrick's mother was from a well-known tribe called 'Britons' (not to be confused with the modern usage of that same name or with 'Britain'). His father was apparently a Roman soldier.

Heh... it might interest people that the long-dead nation of Wales's motto was "Vowels are for the weak."

Celtic culture still exists, a diltued version of itself but it's there. I am in support of a United Celtic Homeland encompassing Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Isle of Man, and Brittany.

Eh ... what about the rest of England? After all, its mostly through England that Celtic tribes made their way across from the European mainland, up to Scotland and across to Ireland. Apart from the Gaels of course, who travelled directly from northern Spain to Ireland.

Sure we all have our bad deeds, but the "Old" British Empire has commited much more than our Celtic Ancestors.

I'm not sure about that. I think the British Empire was a lot more successful, and operated at a more opportune time than, for example, the Celts. Many Celtic tribes were quite large. The largest of these, the Gaels, almost totally dominated Ireland and still has much influence on the island today.

Plus, most British won't like to hear this but most of them have a partial Celtic ancestry. I believe in forgiving the transgressors but remembering what happened.

Why would we British not like to hear about our Celtic ancestry..? :!:

English Taxes my friend, support your Health Service, your schools, your pensioners, hell, your mums Child Benefits are supported by the English, Scottish etc.

Eh ... wrong ... BRITISH taxes support our schools, pensioners, roads etc etc... English is only one part of it - albeit the largest slice. But that largest slice also has its proportionate needs and demands from the NHS and Social Security etc.

Now I feel uncomfortable referring to each region or people from each region as Welsh, English and Scottish etc but frankly, you've forced me to. I refer to all people as British. Our taxes went to help you and the massive level of investment the "English" have spent on you is frankly astronomical.

I can't speak for Wales but, before the British Government took control of Northern Ireland under Direct Rule, Northern Ireland had been making a profit. Oddly enough, after Direct Rule was imposed, we started making a loss I believe. The IRA didn't help all that of course!

I can tell you now that the United Kingdom is just that, its a number of United Kingdoms, the Kingdom of Wales, Kingdom of Scotland and Northern Ireland Uniting with the English Kingdom, by far the most economically powerful and most militarily capable, that is undisputed. All Kingdoms are equal all have been given proportional representation in Westminster, have their own versions of Parliament and their own cultures, laws and systems.

While I agree with you for the most part, perhaps equal, rather than proportional respresentation should have been given to the Welsh, Irish (now Northern Irish), the Scots and the English. A quarter of the allocated seats each. Otherwise the 40 or so million English will have more say on matters that the other members of the kingdom may object to.

Which brings me on to another matter, we are all so intergrated nowadays I frankly do not see the distinction between Welsh, English or Scottish, an attack on Wales, an attack on Scotland or Northern Ireland is an attack on the Whole United Kingdom, no difference, me being more English than anything, I'd fight for Scotland or Wales as much as England, in fact I'd be fighting for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and any attack on it's sovereign territory is the same to me. Dammit, I'd fight for Queen and Country i'd fight for you, your family and your community, i'd go and kick someones arse if i'd have to and kill them if they were to invade any part of the UK, be it Wales or Scotland.

Interesting and admirable. Patriotism is very much missing from our country these days. And when I say patriotism, I do not mean BNP-style patriotism. I don't even mean USA-style patriotism.

I assume you're aware that Northern Ireland has been under attack for the past thirty years..?

I'd say one should be proud to be an Englishman, a Scotsman, a Welshman or, like myself, an Irishman. But equally proud to be a member of the country whose given collective nationality is British - the UK.

Oh my god! What you said to start with is seriously screwed up. Do you hate me 'cos I'm English? Where's the logic in that? There are only a handful of people in England who'd have the power to give Wales independance, so why say you hate the entire nation? I mean, I can't say I like most British people, but that's because at one end of the rich/poor scale you have rich yuppies devoid of all personality and at the other you have white trash... I think Thatcherism (and Blairism) could be blamed for the decline of our country... all the inequality.

And besides, what suppression of culture are you talking about (can't remember who said it)? I guess there's that all around the globe but that's the fault of multinational corporations who are ever extending their vice on the world. You really need to rethink what you're saying.

Also, by saying you hate the English you're just being plain racist! I'd like to think I'm different from most other English people, but you can't say that you hate all English people. That's like saying all Arabs are terrorists, which incidentally a lot of people seem to think... sad really.

It is undeniable that the Irish, Welsh and Scots have suffered greatly at the hands of the "British" Crown. For a start, you're not "British", your ancestors killed those people off long ago.(I should know, my people fled north from the marauding germanic tribes, to Loch Lomond)

Those "marauding germanic tribes" were most likely Celts.

And we are British. The British people, in the sense of the aboriginal peoples of the British Isles, make up the bulk of the British population. Most of them were driven north and west by various waves of different invaders.

The point that modern celtic nations are trying to make is that their ways of life are dying. As a cultural, and racial grouping, they are on the verge of losing their identity.

I couldn't imagine anything more contrary to actual reality. One can hardly switch on the TV without hearing some mention of "Celtic" this or "Celtic" that. The various Indo-European Celtic languages have money thrown at them by the bucket load.

Or the Italians, who as the Roman Empire weakened and slaughtered the free Celtic nations until they were weak enough for their neighbours(Franks, Saxons, Angles, Jutes, etc.) to invade and occupy.

The Romans expansion caused the Celts to migrate westerly and northerly, and into the British Isles in the first place.

This should be locked. I am English and I find this very offensive.

I would rather live in England than the following countries:

Albania, Algeria, American Samoa, Andorra, Angola, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Aruba, Ashmore and Cartier Islands, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, The Bahamas, Bahrain, Baker Island, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bassas da India, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bermuda, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Bouvet Island, Brazil, British Indian Ocea, Territory, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Cayman Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Christmas Island, Clipperton Island, Cocos Islands, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of Congo, Cook Islands, Coral Sea Islands, Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, East Timor, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Europa Island, Falkland Island, Faroe Islands, Fiji, Finland, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern and Antarctic Lands, Gabon, The Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Gibraltar, Glorioso Islands, Greece, Greenland, Grenada, Guadeloupe, Guam, Guatemala, Guernsey, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Heard Island and McDonald Island, Honduras, Howland Island, Hungary, Iceland , India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jan Mayen, Japan, Jarvis Island, Jersey, Johnston Atoll, Jordan, Juan de Nova Island, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kingman Reef, Kiribati, North Kore, South Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macau, Macedoni, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Isle of Man, Marshall Islands, Martinique, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mayotte, Mexico, Federated States of Micronesi, Midway Islands, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montserrat, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nauru, Navassa Island, Nepal, Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Niue, Norfolk Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Palmyra Atoll, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paracel Islands, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Pitcairn Islands, Poland, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Qatar, Reunion, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Saint Helena, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia and Montenegro, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands, Spain, Spratly Islands, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Svalbard, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Tokelau, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tromelin Island, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Turks and Caicos Islands, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United States, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican City, Venezuela, Vietnam, Virgin Islands, Wake Island, Wallis and Futuna, Western Sahar, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zambia or Zimbabwe.

Ireland isn't a country... its an island.

I think Thatcherism (and Blairism) could be blamed for the decline of our country... all the inequality.

Whether you love them or loathe them, both Blair and Thatcher brought this country out of depression quite successfully. Blair's government for example, have seen a record number of consecutive quarters (seasons to you and I) in which the economy has improved.

without the british union, scotland and wales would be on a par withn latfia.

It's stupid getting hyped about english assimilation when most "WELSH" people speak english and don't want to be an independent nation. (the referendum on the assembly showed welsh didn't want seperate tax powers). SOUR GRAPES. just bitching about nothin. live in the present and start taking people on a case by case basis.

if the welsh had invaded and ruled englan I'm sure the author of this post wouldn't be questing for english sovernty and return of their language.

SOUR GRAPES!!!!!


Your ansestors lost to the english.

King Arthur couldn't kick out the Danes, angles and saxons
and lleweln couldn't stop longshanks.

FACE it YOU LOST. groe up and live in the present; make something of your own life instead of whineing.


PS - i don't give a S*** about my spelling.

*takes Grunties on a case by case basis*

Enough is enough. Everyone should be rising themselves above this. I suggest everyone go and read the Etiquette section of the FAQ and abide by it.