NationStates Jolt Archive

I am a Cuban-American and I have lived in the USA for 9 years. I have made this country my home, and although am proud of my Cuban herritage, I am above anything else an American. I am sick of other foreign people bad mouthing us in the Forum. If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism, and we are proud of who we are: then move back to when you came from. It might be your 1st ammendment right to say whatever you want, but face it, if you don't want to be here, then perhaps you should leave.

I am sick of remarks like "You stupid Americans, Chavez is right in Venezuela, you are stupid." as someone sent to my mail box. America is a great country, I have the freedom to go to college and decide my future. I will be rewarded because of my merrits and skills. God bless this nation. (USA # 1)
Signed: Proud of my adopted homeland

As an American, I truely believe that all Anti-Americans have every right to voice their opinions about the crappy things the US is doing.

America may have great opportunities and may have done great things, but the opposite is also true.

America could use more than just a little tune-up, if you know what I mean.

Don't get a bee in the bonnet about things.

Europeans only see a handful of americans and those tend to be ignorant, fat and egotistical.
I'm sure there may be a couple over there that do not fit this discription.

No, I don't care. Everyone has a right to thier opinion, just keep that in mind when the topic of disscussion is your country.

No, I don't care. Everyone has a right to thier opinion, just keep that in mind when the topic of disscussion is your country.

The banter crosses both ways, although I am rarely part of it (unless its to wind people up).

If you so don't care - why raise the issue?

No, I don't care. Everyone has a right to thier opinion, just keep that in mind when the topic of disscussion is your country.

The banter crosses both ways, although I am rarely part of it (unless its to wind people up).

If you so don't care - why raise the issue?

"the best nation in the world for capitalism and democracy"?? you live in a country where you have the opportunity to pick between just two different candidates. If they are both bad you are screwed. you are about to write the first amendment ever that will take away civil freedoms, youare legally allowed to execute children and those are are mentally retarded (in some states).
You say you have the freedom to go to college and decide your future, do Europeans not have the same freedom (i am irish so i cannot speak for the rest of the world) However unlike where i live you Americans have to pay extortionate amounts of money for this 'right' and those that cannot afford it are just screwed arn't they. SO you cansay that the wealthy and the gifted have the freedom to do what they want but not the less well off. Everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others.

Nationstates is an international board, it is not only for americans who allow us to post on their site. Democracy is about differing opinions and viewpoints, do not ask us to leave simply because you do not like what you are saying.

America is a great country who has many achievments under its belt but please, less nationalistic 'we are the best country ever' rubbish

"the best nation in the world for capitalism and democracy"?? you live in a country where you have the opportunity to pick between just two different candidates. If they are both bad you are screwed. you are about to write the first amendment ever that will take away civil freedoms, youare legally allowed to execute children and those are are mentally retarded (in some states).
You say you have the freedom to go to college and decide your future, do Europeans not have the same freedom (i am irish so i cannot speak for the rest of the world) However unlike where i live you Americans have to pay extortionate amounts of money for this 'right' and those that cannot afford it are just screwed arn't they. SO you cansay that the wealthy and the gifted have the freedom to do what they want but not the less well off. Everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others.

Nationstates is an international board, it is not only for americans who allow us to post on their site. Democracy is about differing opinions and viewpoints, do not ask us to leave simply because you do not like what we are saying.

America is a great country who has many achievments under its belt but please, less nationalistic 'we are the best country ever' rubbish

OSLEY: I am sick of other foreign people bad mouthing us in the Forum. If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism, and we are proud of who we are: then move back to when you came from. It might be your 1st ammendment right to say whatever you want, but face it, if you don't want to be here, then perhaps you should leave.

And I'm sick of all the bloody whingeing on both sides. However, in specific reference to your statement: how can foreign people leave somewhere where they aren't? Sorry if I'm being pedantic, I take it that's just bad wording. However, people who live in a country whose ethos and actions they disagree with should not be made to feel like they should leave. What about wanting to stay and make things better? What about those who cannot leave?

I'm glad you have these opportunities. Many don't, partly due to the foreign policies of the US, the UK, France and other developed countries that have perpetuated Western imperialism.

No, I don't care. Everyone has a right to thier opinion, just keep that in mind when the topic of disscussion is your country.

The banter crosses both ways, although I am rarely part of it (unless its to wind people up).

If you so don't care - why raise the issue?

Actually that was directed at only a couple of people who wanted to, not so politely, excuse me from a disscussion of matters concerning the EU.

I'm from America and it sucks. It is far from the best nation on earth. Capitalism bites and the democratic prosses put a complete moron in control. The environment is geting screwed, and the smart are mocked and ruled by complete idiots. I could go on for hours about whats wrong with this place. This thread was started by the ignourant banter that makes our country even worse. I'm going to Canada untill this place fixs itself up, or atleast I would if I was old enought.

I'm from America and it sucks. It is far from the best nation on earth. Capitalism bites and the democratic prosses put a complete moron in control. The environment is geting screwed, and the smart are mocked and ruled by complete idiots. I could go on for hours about whats wrong with this place. This thread was started by the ignourant banter that makes our country even worse. I'm going to Canada untill this place fixs itself up, or atleast I would if I was old enought.

Come on guys
We speak the same language and fight ourwars on the same side.

Why not look at the good things as well.
I haven't seen a thread for example about how the US is so damn good at space exploration.

To answer some people's concerns, i alsready made it clear that it was peoples' 1st ammendment rights to freedom of speech, all am stating is that this country is getting a lot of bad press from foreign people who are somewhat ignorant to our views because they live overseas and are not here to see what this country really has to offer, and also a lot of people here in this country, wether foreign or American, who can't seem to be able to write anything else than, " Oh, I hate America blahh, blahh, blahh, president bush is this and that, Amrricans blah blahh, ect.; And all am saying is that am tired of that, and that is simply my honest opinion on the matter. Thats all I have to put forwards on this subject. And also that am proud of living in the USA

I'm from America and it sucks. It is far from the best nation on earth. Capitalism bites and the democratic prosses put a complete moron in control. The environment is geting screwed, and the smart are mocked and ruled by complete idiots. I could go on for hours about whats wrong with this place. This thread was started by the ignourant banter that makes our country even worse. I'm going to Canada untill this place fixs itself up, or atleast I would if I was old enought.

Maybe, you could do something to try to change the system,or at leaste the way you see it.

To answer some people's concerns, i alsready made it clear that it was peoples' 1st ammendment rights to freedom of speech, all am stating is that this country is getting a lot of bad press from foreign people who are somewhat ignorant to our views because they live overseas and are not here to see what this country really has to offer, and also a lot of people here in this country, wether foreign or American, who can't seem to be able to write anything else than, " Oh, I hate America blahh, blahh, blahh, president bush is this and that, Amrricans blah blahh, ect.; And all am saying is that am tired of that, and that is simply my honest opinion on the matter. Thats all I have to put forwards on this subject. And also that am proud of living in the USA

I don;t think people care that much about how the US chooses to run itself internally. People from every nation are entitled to criticise its foreign ploicy though.

Maby if you listened you'd find out that that Blah Blah Blah is actually the truth and that your just being ignourant and making a lowsy argument.

Buzzadonia has a point, We are good in space exploration, technology, and will hopefully be good at economic progress one day. I know this country is not perfect, but it has so many pros it is a chame people are so hatefull of it sometimes

you say that we have to pay for this right but as i understand it everyone has to pay taxes...

We do not make i so that the rich have everything, if you would like an example, i lived at the very bottom in terms of money. My family only made 11,500 a year. (That is below the amount you ned to have food, clothes, shelter). Now here i sit at college, making a place in this world for my self.

You also stated that we have the right to put people to death. So what? If that person commited a crime and is found quilty by a group of peers, then i don't see he problem.

Also, you said we do this to kid, is it an age issue? I have seen people who are 40 act like they are 15 and i have seen 12 year olds act like they are 30. So one is a kid but thinks like he is older and the other is older but thinks like a kid, which one is actually the kid?

"Everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others." Quote

Since when did American ever say that they made it so that everyone is equal. American actaully spent 40 years trying to stop the spread of government that main foucs was to make people equal. Please re-look up your facts.

"the best nation in the world for capitalism and democracy"?? you live in a country where you have the opportunity to pick between just two different candidates. If they are both bad you are screwed. you are about to write the first amendment ever that will take away civil freedoms, youare legally allowed to execute children and those are are mentally retarded (in some states).
You say you have the freedom to go to college and decide your future, do Europeans not have the same freedom (i am irish so i cannot speak for the rest of the world) However unlike where i live you Americans have to pay extortionate amounts of money for this 'right' and those that cannot afford it are just screwed arn't they. SO you cansay that the wealthy and the gifted have the freedom to do what they want but not the less well off. Everyone is equal, some are just more equal than others.

Nationstates is an international board, it is not only for americans who allow us to post on their site. Democracy is about differing opinions and viewpoints, do not ask us to leave simply because you do not like what we are saying.

America is a great country who has many achievments under its belt but please, less nationalistic 'we are the best country ever' rubbish

Well said!

I as an american would also like to point out that technically we arent even a republic. We are an Oligarchy. The rich run the country with little or no concern for those who are not multi-billionaires, or the long term future of the country for that matter. look at cheny and halliburton, and who got all the Iraq contracts? HALLIBURTON! oligarchy.
Dont tell me to love it or get the hell out, because im here to stay and make it better. Going to college in Canada and hopefully getting dual citizenship so i can leave to a more mentally healthy environment on occasion, but staying, and so are all of us Libs, because we beleive in doing the right thing. and BTW i remember a comment somwhere about founding fathers spinning in their graves? they were as bad as bush too. look what happened to the Indians. with a open election with a unlimited # party system, then we could take our country back. But for now we have to focus on realistic objectives, like spreading our ideas to the more intelligent of the right and center field.

[quote="Osley"]Buzzadonia has a point, We are good in space exploration, technology, and will hopefully be good at economic progress one day. I know this country is not perfect, but it has so many pros it is a chame people are so hatefull of it sometimes[/quote

Thanks

I happen to be English and although I'm not a starry eyed kind of guy it just pi$$es me off that people seem so keen to pick holes in other peoples life without
a) looking at their own a bit more critically
b) realising that other folks have good points too

Isnt it funny that he wanted pro americans to come and there are hardly any in evidence? looks like your in the minority! :lol:

The thing that annoys me is the fact that the citizens of the United States of America think they have the monopoly on the word American. Witness the protests against the Iraq invasion that took place in Colombia, and Chile and Argentina. Call them Anti-American and they will laugh at you because they consider themselves to be Americans, that is people of the American continent.

The thing that annoys me is the fact that the citizens of the United States of America think they have the monopoly on the word American. Witness the protests against the Iraq invasion that took place in Colombia, and Chile and Argentina. Call them Anti-American and they will laugh at you because they consider themselves to be Americans, that is people of the American continent.

My Mexican friend suggests that "gringo" is less ambiguous...

To be honest, America probably isn't the worst country in the world, though it is in no way the best. It gets irritating for you to hear people America-bashing all the time. It gets irritating for us to hear you, or your government, telling everyone else what a great country America is, and how everyone else should be like you. Maybe if we all spent less time bickering like seven year olds, we could go off and do something useful.

let me just state something that i have said in other posts. I do not buy into this America is better, Europe is better arguements. Osley said that he has the freedom to go to college and decide his future, he probably does but many do not. This is true for most european countries also, (in ireland college education is free, there are no tuition fees, there may be a registration fee but grants will usually cover these) I do not know what your american scholarship, grant scheme is but i imagine that like in most places were you have to pay for something it is more difficult for those without much money to do so. You say that your family has little money but you are still in college, tell me something, are you the exception or the rule in America cuz you certainly would be in the minority over here.

If a person commits a crime but does not know that it is morally reprehensible because they are not mature enough to make that decision then no, i do not think it is right to kill them. There age should not come into it at all. Children are not deemed to be mature enough to smoke, drink, marry, vote until they are at least 16 so why are they deemed mature enough to fully comprehend the action of taking another life.

Yor last point makes no sense to me, what fact did i supply that was incorrect. Tell my making people equal is a bad thing, communism is debatable but what is wrong with the concept of all being equal

These threads are funny really. I mean your topic "STAND UP AGAINST ANTI-AMERICANS..." implies that there is some sort of special "race" or "culture" called "American".
Unless you do actually mean the sentence literally. ie: American being a person born or naturalized in the United States of America.

an within that definition, I wholly agree with you. To despise people simply of where they were born, or choose to live, is despicable.

However, I'm guessing that by "American" you are stretching for the mythical nationalistic ideal of "a true American", and the equally mythical "American way" or "American Culture", etc etc etc.. . So I put out the question, so often asked by my countrymen (unfortunately as some odd means of defining themselves, and our country) "What is an American? What is the American way?". I would argue, that outside of the place of birth, and choice of naturalization, there is no such animal (just as there is no true Canadian/Russian/Brit/ etc...)

Now, some may say "but you don't live here, your not "American", so you don't have the right to criticize (which those who no how to read should be able to tell that IM NOT CRITICIZING). You don't know what it's like living in America, or living as an American...etc..." To those pundits. In one respect they are right, I do not live in the US, and I am not an American. I am a Canadian. However, thanks to my Father's job, when growing up, and my work, I have traveled the US extensively. I lived for several years in Great Bridge, Virginia (near Chesapeake Bay Naval Base where my father trained American personnel in Communications, and Russian). I have been in at least 38 states (incl. Alaska), and visited most of the US's major cities. I have met with and am still good friends with "Americans" from all walks and talks of life. All in all, I have travelled more of the US, and talked with more different Americans, than probably more than 90% of most Americans have. I do think therefore, that I am at least as qualified to talk about America, as any American who has lived in any community in the US, and never travelled out of it.

With my experience, I can unequivably state that any "American" who thinks they can tell me what the "American way of life" is dreaming. Lets be serious for a second, anybody living in a ghetto in New York city, is going to have a dramatically different way of life from a farmer living in Idaho, who is going to have a dramatically different way of life from a fisherman in florida, from a lawyer in LA, etc... Any single thing that you can point out as being an "American ideal", I can find at least a few Americans who disagree with it. Does this make them as less "American" than you??? Same thing as freedoms. What you call freedoms, other Americans find oppressive, and vice versa, again, who's the American.
I would argue that a fisherman from Maine will find a fisherman from Nova Scotia more "American" then a gangbanger from LA, and a farmer from Utah would find a farmer from Saskatchawan more "American" than a steel Worker from Detroit.

Overall, it's most just stupid nationalism, on both sides of the debate. Wrap and argurment in a flag, and it somehow increases it's validity. From my experience, much to the chagrin of many of my fellow Canadians, I have yet been able to find any unique "American way of life", which I could not find also duplicated somewhere here in Canada. But that may be an unfair comparison, since we share media, and the large amount of traffic flowing between our two countries, but that being said, the so called American way of life is more likely a way of life built of circumstance, than anything remotely nationalistic.


anyway, I could go on, and may later, but back to work...

Is this really a war about America or a war about ideologies?

Many people think that America is too capitalist. ie. No free healthcare

I'm Irish and I have an American accent. Although strange I LOVE IT :D . If I didn't have one I'd have an Irish naccer accent. Instead it's Californian.
Personally I love the USA. Unfortunately I can't say that about everyone :cry:

I love it when someone tells me that, if I don't like America, then I should leave it. It leaves no room for improvement. Think about it this way-You decide, for whatever reason, to take a bath. You fill the tub with water, and then you check the temperature. The water is far too cold. Now, going with the whole "love it or leave it" argument, you would set off in pursuit of bathwater that is hot enough for you. This, obviously, makes no sense. What does make sense is that you stick around and try to make the conditions more favorable to you.

America is not some set-in-stone mold-you don't live in America to adapt yourself to it. America is fluid, we made sure of that when we allowed the changing of our Constitution (which is biting us in the ass right now), for the purpose of making it more comfortable to those who live here.

In other words, we do not serve the country, the country serves us. Like it or leave it? Why not stay and make it better?

I love it when someone tells me that, if I don't like America, then I should leave it. It leaves no room for improvement. Think about it this way-You decide, for whatever reason, to take a bath. You fill the tub with water, and then you check the temperature. The water is far too cold. Now, going with the whole "love it or leave it" argument, you would set off in pursuit of bathwater that is hot enough for you. This, obviously, makes no sense. What does make sense is that you stick around and try to make the conditions more favorable to you.

America is not some set-in-stone mold-you don't live in America to adapt yourself to it. America is fluid, we made sure of that when we allowed the changing of our Constitution (which is biting us in the ass right now), for the purpose of making it more comfortable to those who live here.

In other words, we do not serve the country, the country serves us. Like it or leave it? Why not stay and make it better?

I love it when someone tells me that, if I don't like America, then I should leave it. It leaves no room for improvement. Think about it this way-You decide, for whatever reason, to take a bath. You fill the tub with water, and then you check the temperature. The water is far too cold. Now, going with the whole "love it or leave it" argument, you would set off in pursuit of bathwater that is hot enough for you. This, obviously, makes no sense. What does make sense is that you stick around and try to make the conditions more favorable to you.

America is not some set-in-stone mold-you don't live in America to adapt yourself to it. America is fluid, we made sure of that when we allowed the changing of our Constitution (which is biting us in the ass right now), for the purpose of making it more comfortable to those who live here.

In other words, we do not serve the country, the country serves us. Like it or leave it? Why not stay and make it better?

I love it when someone tells me that, if I don't like America, then I should leave it. It leaves no room for improvement. Think about it this way-You decide, for whatever reason, to take a bath. You fill the tub with water, and then you check the temperature. The water is far too cold. Now, going with the whole "love it or leave it" argument, you would set off in pursuit of bathwater that is hot enough for you. This, obviously, makes no sense. What does make sense is that you stick around and try to make the conditions more favorable to you.

America is not some set-in-stone mold-you don't live in America to adapt yourself to it. America is fluid, we made sure of that when we allowed the changing of our Constitution (which is biting us in the ass right now), for the purpose of making it more comfortable to those who live here.

In other words, we do not serve the country, the country serves us. Like it or leave it? Why not stay and make it better?

Joseph has a great point. I think what he means though are critisizem of a different matter. I think he means more political things that affect all Americans, not cultural things that affect only certain ones. Like for example the U.S. education system, not all schools are Identical but they follow alot of the same procedures and such, so it is possible to critisize something like that.

Well said!

I as an american would also like to point out that technically we arent even a republic. We are an Oligarchy. The rich run the country with little or no concern for those who are not multi-billionaires, or the long term future of the country for that matter. look at cheny and halliburton, and who got all the Iraq contracts? HALLIBURTON! oligarchy.
Dont tell me to love it or get the hell out, because im here to stay and make it better. Going to college in Canada and hopefully getting dual citizenship so i can leave to a more mentally healthy environment on occasion, but staying, and so are all of us Libs, because we beleive in doing the right thing. and BTW i remember a comment somwhere about founding fathers spinning in their graves? they were as bad as bush too. look what happened to the Indians. with a open election with a unlimited # party system, then we could take our country back. But for now we have to focus on realistic objectives, like spreading our ideas to the more intelligent of the right and center field.

Fortunately, you are wrong in some respects. Our Republic continues to exist because it is difficult to dominate the politics of all elections everywhere. Congress can still pull us out of the mess we are making, if we apply the correct pressure to them. They are not yet bold enough to consider themselves fully above us.

There is certainly an elite out there that benefit from every act of our government. That is not debatable. Thank you for pointing it out in clear terms.

I shrink from labelling this a "conservative" problem, because I know better. Our country has eroded as much under Bush than it did under "Liberal" Bill Clinton. "Liberal" and "Conservative" labels are meaningless and are only applied to politicians to influence our votes on election day. You have probably not talked to a real conservative before. So, Hi.... :) My point is that right and left, they have lost their meaning. It is a sham.

You ripped the quote "Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves" from me, so I felt obligated to respond. You cannot defend the actions our government took against the Native American, I won't try. Look instead at the Fathers' wisdom in the Constitution. This is how they apply to our lives today. The Constitution is their legacy and their gift to us ungrateful slobs. Without it, we are nothing.

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to have a civil discussion about my stance. I am always willing to spread a little light in this rapidly darkening world.

Edit: My poll response is c) What exactly is retoric anyway?
Rhetoric I understand.....but I have no clue what retoric is.

Asia hates the west, Europe hates the US, the west coast hates the east coast, California hates Texas, Northern California hates Southern California, the Bay Area hates the Sacramento Valley, Downtown hates the Suburbs, the nieghborhood on one side of the river hates the nieghborhood on the other side, Beal st. hates St. Martin st., the Jonses hate the Petersons.....

Too many damn people on this planet, we're gonna get on each others nerves.

Most of the complaints from other nations are either:
Stuff we say about ourselves anyway(can't get too worked up about that)
-or-
Stuff thats true of people just about everywhere (but if it makes you feel better to blame us and not look within, knock yourself out)
-or-
Complaining about what our media tells the world (hey, who doesn't get ansy about that? Niether 'side' in America will claim the media. The left thinks its a tool of the right, the right thinks its a tool of the left and afluent middle class kids think its a guidebook to life. I could go on and on about how that is achieved and is both correct and erronius, but there are essays out there on it. Look 'em up. Heres one:John Fiske, Intertextuality).

Thing is, and this is a theory I've been broaching recently, America is a bitchtocracy. The only way for anyone to get anything they need done these days is to bitch about it loud and often. So we sue fast food places not because we might win (in most cases we won't) but so they'll change their menu. Things are just too big to move any other way. I'm not making a value judgement on it, just an observation. The side effect is, if you live in a bitchtocracy, then you gotta listen to a whole lot of bitching. I'm not going to hold Europeans responsible for the actions of every European, government or otherwise. I can gauge the worth of someones opinion based on what they are willing to condemn me for.

I'm off the rails. Time for a nap.

Asia hates the west, Europe hates the US, the west coast hates the east coast, California hates Texas, Northern California hates Southern California, the Bay Area hates the Sacramento Valley, Downtown hates the Suburbs, the nieghborhood on one side of the river hates the nieghborhood on the other side, Beal st. hates St. Martin st., the Jonses hate the Petersons.....

Too many damn people on this planet, we're gonna get on each others nerves.

Most of the complaints from other nations are either:
Stuff we say about ourselves anyway(can't get too worked up about that)
-or-
Stuff thats true of people just about everywhere (but if it makes you feel better to blame us and not look within, knock yourself out)
-or-
Complaining about what our media tells the world (hey, who doesn't get ansy about that? Niether 'side' in America will claim the media. The left thinks its a tool of the right, the right thinks its a tool of the left and afluent middle class kids think its a guidebook to life. I could go on and on about how that is achieved and is both correct and erronius, but there are essays out there on it. Look 'em up. Heres one:John Fiske, Intertextuality).

Thing is, and this is a theory I've been broaching recently, America is a bitchtocracy. The only way for anyone to get anything they need done these days is to bitch about it loud and often. So we sue fast food places not because we might win (in most cases we won't) but so they'll change their menu. Things are just too big to move any other way. I'm not making a value judgement on it, just an observation. The side effect is, if you live in a bitchtocracy, then you gotta listen to a whole lot of bitching. I'm not going to hold Europeans responsible for the actions of every European, government or otherwise. I can gauge the worth of someones opinion based on what they are willing to condemn me for.

I'm off the rails. Time for a nap.

Asia hates the west, Europe hates the US, the west coast hates the east coast, California hates Texas, Northern California hates Southern California, the Bay Area hates the Sacramento Valley, Downtown hates the Suburbs, the nieghborhood on one side of the river hates the nieghborhood on the other side, Beal st. hates St. Martin st., the Jonses hate the Petersons.....

Too many damn people on this planet, we're gonna get on each others nerves.

Most of the complaints from other nations are either:
Stuff we say about ourselves anyway(can't get too worked up about that)
-or-
Stuff thats true of people just about everywhere (but if it makes you feel better to blame us and not look within, knock yourself out)
-or-
Complaining about what our media tells the world (hey, who doesn't get ansy about that? Niether 'side' in America will claim the media. The left thinks its a tool of the right, the right thinks its a tool of the left and afluent middle class kids think its a guidebook to life. I could go on and on about how that is achieved and is both correct and erronius, but there are essays out there on it. Look 'em up. Heres one:John Fiske, Intertextuality).

Thing is, and this is a theory I've been broaching recently, America is a bitchtocracy. The only way for anyone to get anything they need done these days is to bitch about it loud and often. So we sue fast food places not because we might win (in most cases we won't) but so they'll change their menu. Things are just too big to move any other way. I'm not making a value judgement on it, just an observation. The side effect is, if you live in a bitchtocracy, then you gotta listen to a whole lot of bitching. I'm not going to hold Europeans responsible for the actions of every European, government or otherwise. I can gauge the worth of someones opinion based on what they are willing to condemn me for.

I'm off the rails. Time for a nap.

Asia hates the west, Europe hates the US, the west coast hates the east coast, California hates Texas, Northern California hates Southern California, the Bay Area hates the Sacramento Valley, Downtown hates the Suburbs, the nieghborhood on one side of the river hates the nieghborhood on the other side, Beal st. hates St. Martin st., the Jonses hate the Petersons.....

Too many damn people on this planet, we're gonna get on each others nerves.

Most of the complaints from other nations are either:
Stuff we say about ourselves anyway(can't get too worked up about that)
-or-
Stuff thats true of people just about everywhere (but if it makes you feel better to blame us and not look within, knock yourself out)
-or-
Complaining about what our media tells the world (hey, who doesn't get ansy about that? Niether 'side' in America will claim the media. The left thinks its a tool of the right, the right thinks its a tool of the left and afluent middle class kids think its a guidebook to life. I could go on and on about how that is achieved and is both correct and erronius, but there are essays out there on it. Look 'em up. Heres one:John Fiske, Intertextuality).

Thing is, and this is a theory I've been broaching recently, America is a bitchtocracy. The only way for anyone to get anything they need done these days is to bitch about it loud and often. So we sue fast food places not because we might win (in most cases we won't) but so they'll change their menu. Things are just too big to move any other way. I'm not making a value judgement on it, just an observation. The side effect is, if you live in a bitchtocracy, then you gotta listen to a whole lot of bitching. I'm not going to hold Europeans responsible for the actions of every European, government or otherwise. I can gauge the worth of someones opinion based on what they are willing to condemn me for.

I'm off the rails. Time for a nap.

Fortunately, you are wrong in some respects. Our Republic continues to exist because it is difficult to dominate the politics of all elections everywhere. Congress can still pull us out of the mess we are making, if we apply the correct pressure to them. They are not yet bold enough to consider themselves fully above us.

There is certainly an elite out there that benefit from every act of our government. That is not debatable. Thank you for pointing it out in clear terms.

I shrink from labelling this a "conservative" problem, because I know better. Our country has eroded as much under Bush than it did under "Liberal" Bill Clinton. "Liberal" and "Conservative" labels are meaningless and are only applied to politicians to influence our votes on election day. You have probably not talked to a real conservative before. So, Hi.... :) My point is that right and left, they have lost their meaning. It is a sham.

You ripped the quote "Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves" from me, so I felt obligated to respond. You cannot defend the actions our government took against the Native American, I won't try. Look instead at the Fathers' wisdom in the Constitution. This is how they apply to our lives today. The Constitution is their legacy and their gift to us ungrateful slobs. Without it, we are nothing.

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to have a civil discussion about my stance. I am always willing to spread a little light in this rapidly darkening world.

Edit: My poll response is c) What exactly is retoric anyway?
Rhetoric I understand.....but I have no clue what retoric is.


You have probably not talked to a real conservative before. So, Hi.... :)

so does that mean you are a real conservative/libertarian(i dunno which) and not a neoCon? Congratulations! its sad to see how many "conservatives" stop thinking and agree with the neoCons because they represent the "conservative" party.

i fail to see where we disagree... at least on the core issue. on Clinton, i dont even consider him a liberal... i see democrats as the slightly lesser of two evils. Also, i hope you havent missed the way the elite uses the two party system to manipulate us... They put the republicans in and let them mess things up, so that everyone gets fired up and elects a dem, and no one ever gets around to wanting third parties cuz they spend too much time fired up. Or vice versa on the Republican/ Dem. I dont see much an individual can do about it, but

on the founding fathers however, look at Hamilton's politics, look at the primary sources on the Fedralist correspondence before the constitution was ratified... look at the safeguards built into the constitution to keep the masses at bay: electoral college, senators appointed by legislatures(thats gone now) they are all trying to keep the rich in power.... now im not disagreeing that its been a downhill slide since then, and they are the best as US politicians go, but i still dislike them.

But then again, Im a commie bastard :wink:

always nice to meet someone who has some idea what is going on in these forums.

Osley, don't worry about it. They're frustrated, and they're scared. They know all their whining will do nothing, the U.S. will continue to dominate the world and that there is nothing they can do about it. We own them, we give them their success, and they hate us for it.

^ Alright class, now here is ANOTHER example of why some people don't like Americans, the arrogance is simply astounding. :roll:

so does that mean you are a real conservative/libertarian(i dunno which) and not a neoCon? Congratulations! its sad to see how many "conservatives" stop thinking and agree with the neoCons because they represent the "conservative" party.

i fail to see where we disagree... at least on the core issue. on Clinton, i dont even consider him a liberal... i see democrats as the slightly lesser of two evils. Also, i hope you havent missed the way the elite uses the two party system to manipulate us... They put the republicans in and let them mess things up, so that everyone gets fired up and elects a dem, and no one ever gets around to wanting third parties cuz they spend too much time fired up. Or vice versa on the Republican/ Dem. I dont see much an individual can do about it, but

on the founding fathers however, look at Hamilton's politics, look at the primary sources on the Fedralist correspondence before the constitution was ratified... look at the safeguards built into the constitution to keep the masses at bay: electoral college, senators appointed by legislatures(thats gone now) they are all trying to keep the rich in power.... now im not disagreeing that its been a downhill slide since then, and they are the best as US politicians go, but i still dislike them.

But then again, Im a commie bastard :wink:

always nice to meet someone who has some idea what is going on in these forums.

*Shrug* I am what I am. I am certainly not a cog in the party machine anymore.....

The manipulation of our party system is highly visible to anyone who takes any time to look at it.....and enters without a totally closed mind. It's a tough situation to wrap your mind around. It goes against all that propaganda you've soaked up....lol

The Founders did not want to insulate us fully from the government. They did their best to reduce the power of mob mentality......the kind you can see pretty much daily now. Pure Democracy doesn't work. It's too easy to manipulate. I won't go into it here, but I'd be glad to talk about it a bit in private.

The people's power was originally in the House of Representatives. It is truly a shame that so few tend to recognize that. I doubt that 30% of the Americans here could name their Rep. Mine, sorry to say, is Dick Gephardt. It would be an interesting "what if" scenario to see what things would be like today IF we actually used the Constitution and Bill of rights for anything but claiming the right to make porn and defending our right to own guns. Oh, and the cursory mention of "The 5th" on "Law and Order"....lol

It's difficult to distill the true meaning of history from ragged facts. Everyone has an opinion. I choose to believe that the Founders wanted to protect us from ourselves....and from influences they saw creeping into the country from abroad (interesting topic). Perhaps it was different because then our leaders had some moral sense about them. All I know is that I owe my (rapidly diminishing) freedom to them. Freedom that seldom exists elsewhere. I find it hard to demonize them.

^ Alright class, now here is ANOTHER example of why some people don't like Americans, the arrogance is simply astounding. :roll:
It's not arrogance, it's bluntness. We own you.

I am a Cuban-American and I have lived in the USA for 9 years. I have made this country my home, and although am proud of my Cuban herritage, I am above anything else an American. I am sick of other foreign people bad mouthing us in the Forum. If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism, and we are proud of who we are: then move back to when you came from. It might be your 1st ammendment right to say whatever you want, but face it, if you don't want to be here, then perhaps you should leave.

I am sick of remarks like "You stupid Americans, Chavez is right in Venezuela, you are stupid." as someone sent to my mail box. America is a great country, I have the freedom to go to college and decide my future. I will be rewarded because of my merrits and skills. God bless this nation. (USA # 1)

Signed: Proud of my adopted homeland
Hmmmm I find this an very interesting situation. You came to America from a country that supresses freedom of speech, and free movement (Cuba), and now that you are an American citizen, you would want to supress the freedom of speech of others in your new country? Are you attempting to turn the USA into your own version of Cuba?

I am a Cuban-American and I have lived in the USA for 9 years. I have made this country my home, and although am proud of my Cuban herritage, I am above anything else an American. I am sick of other foreign people bad mouthing us in the Forum. If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism, and we are proud of who we are: then move back to when you came from. It might be your 1st ammendment right to say whatever you want, but face it, if you don't want to be here, then perhaps you should leave.

I am sick of remarks like "You stupid Americans, Chavez is right in Venezuela, you are stupid." as someone sent to my mail box. America is a great country, I have the freedom to go to college and decide my future. I will be rewarded because of my merrits and skills. God bless this nation. (USA # 1)

Signed: Proud of my adopted homeland
Hmmmm I find this an very interesting situation. You came to America from a country that supresses freedom of speech, and free movement (Cuba), and now that you are an American citizen, you would want to supress the freedom of speech of others in your new country? Are you attempting to turn the USA into your own version of Cuba?
Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...

There is nothing more American than voicing dissatisfaction in the way our government is being run. Bush & co is NOT America, and dissent isn't a crime (yet).

There is nothing more American than voicing dissatisfaction in the way our government is being run. Bush & co is NOT America, and dissent isn't a crime (yet).
This thread isn't about Bush, get over him already.

Osley, don't worry about it. They're frustrated, and they're scared. They know all their whining will do nothing, the U.S. will continue to dominate the world and that there is nothing they can do about it. We own them, we give them their success, and they hate us for it.Napoleon thought that way, and so did Hitler. As a matter of fact, all the great empires came crashing down, that is if you read and understand any history at all. Napoleon got his at Waterloo, Nixon was felled by Watergate.

Even Britain was arrogant with its' colonies and out of that, there was the American Revolution. Fame and fortune are fleeting and oh so humbling when lost.

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron?????

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron.[/quote]
Wrong. Classical Liberal Fascist, Oxymoron. Modern Liberal Fascist, those people who think that it is perfectly acceptable to impose modern Liberal ideas and policies upon a populace which does not accept them. Example: Modern Liberals support Homosexual Marriage, but the majority of the population in the U.S. does not. Liberals in the U.S. seek to make Homosexual Marriage a federally protected practice, thereby forcing their views on those who do not share them.

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron.
Wrong. Classical Liberal Fascist, Oxymoron. Modern Liberal Fascist, those people who think that it is perfectly acceptable to impose modern Liberal ideas and policies upon a populace which does not accept them. Example: Modern Liberals support Homosexual Marriage, but the majority of the population in the U.S. does not. Liberals in the U.S. seek to make Homosexual Marriage a federally protected practice, thereby forcing their views on those who do not share them.Encarta definition of liberal:

1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. politics progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual

Encarta definition of Fascist:

Fascist supporter of fascism: somebody who supports or advocates a system of government characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism

Truly a liberal cannot be a Fascist!!! Hitler was a Fascist for sure and so was Stalin, but neither was a Liberal.

As far as the Homosexual thing is concerned, although it has nothing to do with "Liberal Fascism", has also no bearing on this topic?

I am a Cuban-American and I have lived in the USA for 9 years. I have made this country my home, and although am proud of my Cuban herritage, I am above anything else an American. I am sick of other foreign people bad mouthing us in the Forum. If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism, and we are proud of who we are: then move back to when you came from. It might be your 1st ammendment right to say whatever you want, but face it, if you don't want to be here, then perhaps you should leave.

I am sick of remarks like "You stupid Americans, Chavez is right in Venezuela, you are stupid." as someone sent to my mail box. America is a great country, I have the freedom to go to college and decide my future. I will be rewarded because of my merrits and skills. God bless this nation. (USA # 1)
Signed: Proud of my adopted homeland

typical American arrogance.Your country is imperfect.WIth its foreign policies it has screwed up much of the world's economy and environment.Who is the world's biggest polluter?America.

you are an example of overpatriotism.Learn history,learn geography of the rest of the world,not just American history.Go in depth,learn of your country's mistakes.

America has done great good,reluctantly I will admit,but you have done horrendous things to others as well.Don't need to be so proud and overbearing.Democracy is not the only way.nor is secularism.It has to adapt and fit to each culture.YOu can't just stamp your culture on the rest of the world.Democracy is generally good,I will give it that,but it has to adapt to the local culture,it cannot be imposed American style.

The world is not just America.The world includes other human nations.

I am sick and tiried of Anti-amricanism. THe peoiplke who make fun of this will make fun of americans only and not wish that the americn government will be improved. It is getting to the point when this racism should be stopped imiedatly.

Osley, don't worry about it. They're frustrated, and they're scared. They know all their whining will do nothing, the U.S. will continue to dominate the world and that there is nothing they can do about it. We own them, we give them their success, and they hate us for it.

Quite right, I hope any stoopid racist foreghner is watching this they will hang thier head in sorrow!! :twisted:

I am sick and tiried of Anti-amricanism. THe peoiplke who make fun of this will make fun of americans only and not wish that the americn government will be improved. It is getting to the point when this racism should be stopped imiedatly.

Spelling errors aside. American's are not a race, so its not racism. Many people labeled ant-american really aren't, they are just critisizing the way america is being run and what it is becoming.

Osley, don't worry about it. They're frustrated, and they're scared. They know all their whining will do nothing, the U.S. will continue to dominate the world and that there is nothing they can do about it. We own them, we give them their success, and they hate us for it.

[quote=Aanmericaa wrote:
I am sick and tiried of Anti-amricanism. The people who make fun of this will make fun of americans only and not wish that the american government will be improved. It is getting to the point when this racism should be stopped imiedatly.


Spelling errors aside. American's are not a race, so its not racism. Many people labeled ant-american really aren't, they are just critisizing the way america is being run and what it is becoming.[/quote]

exactly my friend,exactly.Im am proud to be singaporean,definitely not american.while their country is great,their culture is young and they have no understanding of the continued long-term abuse of their power.better to be altruistic to a limited extent than be some domineering,arrogant eagle.

I am a puerto rican/american. I am a direct American. My great grandfather moved from puerto rico to here. If he was alive today then he would say that he moved to the USA because he could not find anywhere as good as the US. No one else would exept them. No one exept the USA. We are the best country to live in. Face it Europe. You owe it all to us!

WHen I say we are the best place to live in I mean that you can raise a family most easlily here. Not that anywhere else is better its mostly different.

exactly my friend,exactly.Im am proud to be singaporean,definitely not american.while their country is great,their culture is young and they have no understanding of the continued long-term abuse of their power.better to be altruistic to a limited extent than be some domineering,arrogant eagle.

Young has nothing to do with it, its more greed and the need for power.

I am a puerto rican/american. I am a direct American. My great grandfather moved from puerto rico to here. If he was alive today then he would say that he moved to the USA because he could not find anywhere as good as the US. No one else would exept them. No one exept the USA. We are the best country to live in. Face it Europe. You owe it all to us!What exactly does Europe owe to America???

I am a puerto rican/american. I am a direct American. My great grandfather moved from puerto rico to here. If he was alive today then he would say that he moved to the USA because he could not find anywhere as good as the US. No one else would exept them. No one exept the USA. We are the best country to live in. Face it Europe. You owe it all to us!What exactly does Europe owe to America?

Well,historically,you have heard of the Marshall Plan?After World War 2,the Americans helped the European powers recover,as American industries were intact while Europe was damaged by the war.

Of course,Europeans only owe Americans that initial economic success.Further on,from the 1950's onwards it was their people and economies with access to a large American consumer market and the cheap labour of Asia that Euro countries tapped that contributed to their success.All countries are interdependent on one another to some extent for their success,just as some Asian countries are successes due to the foreign investment of Europeans and Americans.

But on the whole,while we owe America much in terms of history past and even present,that still does not excuse the short-sighted policies of Western European nations and America which have screwed up the world greatly.

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron.
Wrong. Classical Liberal Fascist, Oxymoron. Modern Liberal Fascist, those people who think that it is perfectly acceptable to impose modern Liberal ideas and policies upon a populace which does not accept them. Example: Modern Liberals support Homosexual Marriage, but the majority of the population in the U.S. does not. Liberals in the U.S. seek to make Homosexual Marriage a federally protected practice, thereby forcing their views on those who do not share them.Encarta definition of liberal:

1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. politics progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual

Encarta definition of Fascist:

Fascist supporter of fascism: somebody who supports or advocates a system of government characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism

Truly a liberal cannot be a Fascist!!! Hitler was a Fascist for sure and so was Stalin, but neither was a Liberal.

As far as the Homosexual thing is concerned, although it has nothing to do with "Liberal Fascism", has also no bearing on this topic?
Yawn, you don't pay attention, do you?

If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's not arrogance, it's bluntness. We own you.

And you wonder why people hate you. You, personally, are living proof.

It's not arrogance, it's bluntness. We own you.

And you wonder why people hate you. You, personally, are living proof.

I actually think he's rather funny. Like a cartoon character..lol ..;)

Everyone on this thread ingores me. Am I not contraversial enough.

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron.
Wrong. Classical Liberal Fascist, Oxymoron. Modern Liberal Fascist, those people who think that it is perfectly acceptable to impose modern Liberal ideas and policies upon a populace which does not accept them. Example: Modern Liberals support Homosexual Marriage, but the majority of the population in the U.S. does not. Liberals in the U.S. seek to make Homosexual Marriage a federally protected practice, thereby forcing their views on those who do not share them.Encarta definition of liberal:

1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. politics progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual

Encarta definition of Fascist:

Fascist supporter of fascism: somebody who supports or advocates a system of government characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism

Truly a liberal cannot be a Fascist!!! Hitler was a Fascist for sure and so was Stalin, but neither was a Liberal.

As far as the Homosexual thing is concerned, although it has nothing to do with "Liberal Fascism", has also no bearing on this topic?
Yawn, you don't pay attention, do you?
Oh I pay attention alright. Perhaps it is your views that could provoke anti-American sentiment? Anyone who supports more rights for homosexuals is a Liberal Fascist? As far as you OWNING other people, YOU own squat, unless of course your are involved in slavery of some sort?

Everyone on this thread ingores me. Am I not contraversial enough.

*Pats Darcul on the head*

If you can't accept the fact that this is the best nation in the world for democracy and capitalism, and we are proud of who we are: then move back to when you came from.
No further comment, this is the reason why so many people are Anti-American :roll:

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron.
Wrong. Classical Liberal Fascist, Oxymoron. Modern Liberal Fascist, those people who think that it is perfectly acceptable to impose modern Liberal ideas and policies upon a populace which does not accept them. Example: Modern Liberals support Homosexual Marriage, but the majority of the population in the U.S. does not. Liberals in the U.S. seek to make Homosexual Marriage a federally protected practice, thereby forcing their views on those who do not share them.[/quote]

*bzzt* No.

One of the defining points of liberalism is that liberals don't force anything on anyone. Instead, I can easily turn your example around: you want to force homosexuals to conform to standards that they do not support. If, to stay with your example, homosexual marriage were allowed, so what? It doesn't infringe on your rights (presuming you are a heterosexual).

The whole Europe owes the US deely is one of the most stupid arguments ever invented.

Sam saves Luke's life. Does Luke owe him a debt of gratitude? For sure.

If Sam tries to collect this debt by saying Luke and his children and his grandchildren owe him and his family forever.... and one of those conditions is to do whatever Sam says are we really surprised Luke is non to please.

Sam Jr. Jr. tells Luke Jr. Jr to kill Ahmed. When Luke refuses to commit murder Sam Jr. Jr says "Yeah but my Granddady saved your Granddaddy so you owe me."

When reduced to the most basic of childlike terms we thus see how idiotic the "You'd all be speaking German if it weren't for us" reaction really is.

Everyone on this thread ingores me. Am I not contraversial enough.Thats it Darcul, get in there and stir up some muck LOL. Everyone loves a little contoversy now and then.

I am sick and tiried of Anti-amricanism. THe peoiplke who make fun of this will make fun of americans only and not wish that the americn government will be improved. It is getting to the point when this racism should be stopped imiedatly.

Please get both your spelling and your terms in order. Racism involves discrimination against a race. The US are not a race as such. They are a nation, comprised of many races. Therefore, racism does not apply here.

And the entire world does wish you would improve your government.

I am a puerto rican/american. I am a direct American. My great grandfather moved from puerto rico to here. If he was alive today then he would say that he moved to the USA because he could not find anywhere as good as the US. No one else would exept them. No one exept the USA. We are the best country to live in. Face it Europe. You owe it all to us!

Please satisfy my curiosity: what do we owe you?

Oh, and by the way: how extensively did your grandfather travel? Did he ever see any places besides Puerto Rico and mainland US?

And for the record: I used to want to live in the US when I was younger. That changed.

Theres a difference between making laws limiting free speech, and encouraging others to exercise tact when speaking of the most powerful nation on earth. Liberal Fascist...Liberal Fascist is truly an oxymoron.
Wrong. Classical Liberal Fascist, Oxymoron. Modern Liberal Fascist, those people who think that it is perfectly acceptable to impose modern Liberal ideas and policies upon a populace which does not accept them. Example: Modern Liberals support Homosexual Marriage, but the majority of the population in the U.S. does not. Liberals in the U.S. seek to make Homosexual Marriage a federally protected practice, thereby forcing their views on those who do not share them.Encarta definition of liberal:

1. broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. politics progressive politically or socially: favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual

Encarta definition of Fascist:

Fascist supporter of fascism: somebody who supports or advocates a system of government characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism

Truly a liberal cannot be a Fascist!!! Hitler was a Fascist for sure and so was Stalin, but neither was a Liberal.

As far as the Homosexual thing is concerned, although it has nothing to do with "Liberal Fascism", has also no bearing on this topic?
Yawn, you don't pay attention, do you?

Ah, the Fascist gambit: "I don't know any reasons, so I just start insulting/beating up the opposition."

All countries are interdependent on one another to some extent for their success.


Exactly.

The whole Europe owes the US deely is one of the most stupid arguments ever invented.
<snip>
When reduced to the most basic of childlike terms we thus see how idiotic the "You'd all be speaking German if it weren't for us" reaction really is.

Makes you feel sorry for the Germans - they are still speaking German :lol:

Everyone on this thread ingores me. Am I not contraversial enough.

Apparently. :lol:

The whole Europe owes the US deely is one of the most stupid arguments ever invented.
<snip>
When reduced to the most basic of childlike terms we thus see how idiotic the "You'd all be speaking German if it weren't for us" reaction really is.

Makes you feel sorry for the Germans - they are still speaking German :lol:

Will they never learn?! :lol:

what a dumbass. he spells rhetoric wrong and expects people to take him seriously.

I'm an American and I know that our country sucks. It is a bully and the antithesis to all it once stood for: liberty for all.

Why don't you just go soke your head you jingoistic republican?

I also find it interesting that the US are the only country on this planet where "liberal" is considered an insult.

The whole Europe owes the US deely is one of the most stupid arguments ever invented.
<snip>
When reduced to the most basic of childlike terms we thus see how idiotic the "You'd all be speaking German if it weren't for us" reaction really is.

Makes you feel sorry for the Germans - they are still speaking German :lol:

Will they never learn?! :lol:

No, we refuse to learn! We even dub your movies into our language! :lol:

lol. Well I'm glad. I was afraid the entire world was filled with illiterate religious nuts. I mean, damn, even Germany has less racists and anti-semetics than the U.S.

But I see his point though. He is Cuban-American. Which implies that he hasn't seen the rest of the world. Granted, a failed communist society such as Cuba is nothing compared to the U.S., the U.S. is nothing compared to other nations.

Get a backbone, you can't own land, nations don't exist, the nly barriers are philosophical ones. And it's obvious that you share the same beliefs as everyone in the world BUT america olskey.

I mean look. Idiot Christians flocking to see their alleged god get its ass whooped? What kinda nation is this? Or are you just in some costal U.S. city where you don't have to put up with the average American's stupidity.

I mean the arrogance. "America"? That isn't a name of a country. That is a name of a region. And United States isn't a name either. I'd rather be called Nepal than America, solely because we are founded off such pathetic individuals who can't even be trusted to make their own name.

I am a puerto rican/american. I am a direct American. My great grandfather moved from puerto rico to here. If he was alive today then he would say that he moved to the USA because he could not find anywhere as good as the US. No one else would exept them. No one exept the USA. We are the best country to live in. Face it Europe. You owe it all to us!

Please satisfy my curiosity: what do we owe you?

Oh, and by the way: how extensively did your grandfather travel? Did he ever see any places besides Puerto Rico and mainland US?

And for the record: I used to want to live in the US when I was younger. That changed.


Well if you must know. My grandfather asked several governments in South America, they refused, and he also didn't like the massive poverty then in all of the countries he asked to immigrate to. He didn't want to become another poor imigrant with no future in one of the south american countries. So he came to the USA, he was allowed to shape his future, and decide what he wanted to do for a living and achieve what he had deserved. I live in Europe today, it is VERY nice, it makes a difference and makes me change my opinions. THE USA will not be the no.1 foreever. The american people are just trying to get along with the rest of the world and with this anti-americanism it makes it hard for any international relationships. Also you Europeans only owe us your thanks to helping us rebuild your countries after the two world wars. I like Europe. But I will be very proud of my American/puerto rican heritage. My views will never change about the USA. The USA can improve its government, made its mistakes and will try to fix them, and who doesen't. You all claim that the USA is a horrible nation, you are wrong, you try to ignore your own countries mistakes and make yourselves look better and makes your problems dissapear. One thing, if any other country in Europe can't do a better job than the USA is doing as superpower, then just simply shut up and mind your own buisness.

lol. Well I'm glad. I was afraid the entire world was filled with illiterate religious nuts. I mean, damn, even Germany has less racists and anti-semetics than the U.S.

But I see his point though. He is Cuban-American. Which implies that he hasn't seen the rest of the world. Granted, a failed communist society such as Cuba is nothing compared to the U.S., the U.S. is nothing compared to other nations.

Get a backbone, you can't own land, nations don't exist, the nly barriers are philosophical ones. And it's obvious that you share the same beliefs as everyone in the world BUT america olskey.

I mean look. Idiot Christians flocking to see their alleged god get its ass whooped? What kinda nation is this? Or are you just in some costal U.S. city where you don't have to put up with the average American's stupidity.

I mean the arrogance. "America"? That isn't a name of a country. That is a name of a region. And United States isn't a name either. I'd rather be called Nepal than America, solely because we are founded off such pathetic individuals who can't even be trusted to make their own name.

You are almost wrong in every respect! America is the name of a country. So it the USA, the USA allows all religions and the germans have started 2 world wars and are still racist. And if you think your comparing with the US and your sorry self you are a racist and a biased. The two same things.

How can I vote? There's no option for "whilst I have little problem with Americans, America and it's government is screwing everyone else for its own gain". I can either agree with you, or not care, but not hold a differing opinion.

And Aanmericaa, WWI wasn't started by Germany, it was started by Austria. The USA may be trying to get along with the rest of the world, but it's failing rather miserably, because it tends to assume that what's right for America is right for everyone else.

Osley, there's a slight problem with moving away from America: anywhere that's not like America already (ie doesn't have a McDonalds on every corner) is a terrorist state, and is somewhere on Bush's 'Where to bomb next' list, and everywhere that does is, well, like America, just (fortunatly) watered down.

I live in Europe today, it is VERY nice, it makes a difference and makes me change my opinions.


Where in Europe? No, don't worry, just curious.


The american people are just trying to get along with the rest of the world


Are you sure? Considering the bullying, insulting and blackmailing that occurred while the US administration wanted to justify their war against Iraq; and considering the attitudes visible in several threads here ("We own you."); considering the international agreements (for example Kyoto) that the US administration has unilaterally violated; considering all those things, the world gets exactly the opposite message.


and with this anti-americanism it makes it hard for any international relationships.
[/]

This could be a vicious circle: the US (mostly represented by their [currently not] elected representatives) come across as arrogant, overbearing and self-righteous jerks who couldn't care less about international relationships. Is it any wonder, then, that the rest of the world responds in kind?

[quote=aanimericaa]
But I will be very proud of my American/puerto rican heritage.


Nobody here will deny you that right. :)


The USA can improve its government, made its mistakes and will try to fix them, and who doesen't.


When they do, I expect the rest of the world will not hold the offenses of the current government against the new one.


You all claim that the USA is a horrible nation, you are wrong, you try to ignore your own countries mistakes and make yourselves look better and makes your problems dissapear.


You're wrong about that. Here in Germany, we're all too aware of our own problems, and we argue about those even more than about the US. The US, for all their bluster, are only a minor concern. They only become a major concern when they decide to mess with others.


One thing, if any other country in Europe can't do a better job than the USA is doing as superpower, then just simply shut up and mind your own buisness.

Consider this for a moment: in the 21st century, does the world really need any superpowers? Hasn't the concept of the superpower outlived itself? Shouldn't cooperation among equals provide a better foundation for lasting peace and prosperity than any one or two nations deciding they can call the shots because they have the bigger guns (which is the US's only claim to superpowerness).
Also, I wouldn't call on "any other country in Europe" for the role, but rather the EU as a whole.

America is the name of a country.

*bzzt* No. America is the name of the continent. Which holds the countries Canada and the United States of America.


So it the USA, the USA allows all religions and the germans have started 2 world wars and are still racist.


Pot, meet kettle.


And if you think your comparing with the US and your sorry self you are a racist and a biased. The two same things.

No, they are not. By the way, "biased" is a verb.

Webster's New Ecyclopedic Dictionary:

Racism: n 1: belief that certain races of people are by birth and nature superior to others. 2: discrimination against the members of one or more races based upon racism.

Bias: vt biased or biassed; biasing or biassing: to give a bias to: prejudice.

While the two are related, racism involves race, bias doesn't. There is no race involved in anti-americanism.

Quite frankly, I think this is an interesting arguement, and while I am a staunch supporter of freedom of speech, I believe that some of these so-called "Anti-American" statements are, more often than not, an uneducated rant with large words.

I'm American, and, in many senses, a patriotic one. I stand by the current President in many issues, but I disagree on others. This is the point of democracy. The United States follows this form of government. We are not an oligarchy. We are not a aristocratic society. Is there an aristocracy? Yes. Is this a valid arguement, seeing as how there is an aristocracy in every nation? Including our seemingly utopian European neighbors? Yes, there is.

What I find to be generally unnoticed is that our aristocracy was once middle-class. Our president, undebatebly the most powerful person in the free world, was middle-class. The middle-class was a rising social level in the middle ages. In our modern age of technology and politics, the middle-class is unquestionably the most important.

America is a nation that deserves world respect. Many choose to dwell on the awful things that our country has done, but, this is easily refuteable because of all of the horrid things every country has done. And, many choose to ignore that America has done a mass of excellence for this world.

We all could not be where we were without eachother, and many Americans seem to think that we'd be fine without Europe. And vice versa. Well, I ask, would Europe be where it is without Omaha Beach? There would be no Europe, it'd just be a large, fascist Germany. Where would America be without the French? Still a large colony of Britain. Quite frankly, every nation has its ups and downs, and quite frankly, I'm sick of the haughty attitude that America is a scourge to the world when it proposed the United Nations, the League of Nations. I'm sick of it when we put men on the moon, and created the International Space Station.

We deserve as much respect as any other nation in the world.

lol. Well I'm glad. I was afraid the entire world was filled with illiterate religious nuts. I mean, damn, even Germany has less racists and anti-semetics than the U.S.

And... curiously... a smaller population....

Not that that has anything to do with it....

Our president, undebatebly the most powerful person in the free world, was middle-class.


Really? Every biography has him down as "old money." Bush was never middle-class, he was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth.


America is a nation that deserves world respect.


Yes, but respect is a two-way street. You can't demand respect.


Many choose to dwell on the awful things that our country has done, but, this is easily refuteable because of all of the horrid things every country has done.


Sorry, but two wrongs do not make a right, as the saying goes. The evil things that the US used to do are not cancelled out by the evil things that France or Germany or Iran did. They are the respective nation's past and need to be dealt with.
To pick one random example, I read a lot about people demanding that the Japanese apologize for their role in WW2. Craggy. But why won't the US apologize for their role in the genocide of the Native Americans? (I'm not picking you on here, I'm just picking random atrocities. I could go on forever using a lot of examples from all over the world.)
The thing is, if the country has learned from its past mistakes, and works towards a better tomorrow, even that won't cancel out the past.


And, many choose to ignore that America has done a mass of excellence for this world.


Yes, the US did. A lot of good, a lot of bad. When you (the US) start doing good again, we'll praise you for it. Well, at least I will.



We all could not be where we were without eachother, and many Americans seem to think that we'd be fine without Europe. And vice versa. Well, I ask, would Europe be where it is without Omaha Beach? There would be no Europe, it'd just be a large, fascist Germany. Where would America be without the French? Still a large colony of Britain. Quite frankly, every nation has its ups and downs, and quite frankly, I'm sick of the haughty attitude that America is a scourge to the world when it proposed the United Nations, the League of Nations. I'm sick of it when we put men on the moon, and created the International Space Station.
We deserve as much respect as any other nation in the world.

Agreed. Absolutely. But, as I said, respect is a two-way street. The US's attitude of "We're the boss, you do as we tell you to" is extremely disrespectful. You shouldn't be surprised if the world responds in kind. Respect others, and they will respect you.

Finally got to Washington in the middle of the night
I couldn't wait
I headed straight for the Capitol Mall
My heart began to pound
Yahoo! It really exists
The American International Pictures logo

I looked up at that Capitol Building
Couldn't help but wonder why
I felt like saying "Hello, old friend"

Walked up the hill to touch it
Then I unzipped my pants
And pissed on it when nobody was looking

Like a great eternal Klansman
With his two flashing red eyes
Turn around he's always watching
The Washington monument pricks the sky
With flags like pubic hair ringed 'round the bottom

The symbols of our heritage
Lit up proudly in the night
Somehow fits to see the homeless people
Passed out on the lawn

So this is where it happens
The power games and bribes
All lobbying for a piece of ass

Of the stars and stripes of corruption
Makes me feel so ashamed
To be an American
When we're too stuck up to learn from our mistakes
Trying to start another Viet Nam
Whilke fiddling while Rome burns at home
The Boss says, "You're laid off. Blame the Japanese"
"America's back," alright
At the game it plays the worst
Strip mining the world like a slave plantation

No wonder others hate us
And the Hitlers we handpick
To bleed their people dry
For our evil empire

The drug we're fed
To make us like it
Is God and country with a band

People we know who should know better
Howl, "America riles. Let's go to war!"
Business scams are what's worth dying for

Are the Soviets our worst enemy?
We're destroying ourselves instead
Who cares about our civil rights
As long as I get paid?

The blind Me-Generation
Doesn't care if life's a lie

so easily used, so proud to enforce

The stars and stripes of corruption
Let's bring it all down!
Tell me who's the real patriots
The Archie Bunker slobs waving flags?
Or the people with the guts to work
For some real change
Rednecks and bombs don't make us strong
We loot the world, yet we can't even feed ourselves
Our real test of strength is caring
Not the toys of war we sell the world
Just carry on, thankful to be farmed like worms
Old glory for a blanket
As you suck on your thumbs

Real freedom scares you
'Cos it means responsibility

So you chicken out and threaten me

Saying, "Love it or leave it"
I'll get beat up if I criticize it
You say you'll fight to the death
To save your worthless flag

If you want a banana republic that bad
Why don't you go move to one
But what can just one of us do?
Against all that money and power
Trying to crush us into roaches?

We don't destroy society in a day
Until we change ourselves first
From the inside out

We can start by not lying so much
And treating other people like dirt
It's easy not to base our lives
On how much we can scam

And you know
It feels good to lift that monkey off our backs

I'm thankful I live in a place
Where I can say the things I do
Without being taken out and shot
So I'm on guard against the goons
Trying to take my rights away
We've got to rise above the need for cops and laws

Let kids learn communication
Instead of schools pushing competition
How about more art and theater instead of sports?

People will always do drugs
Let's legalize them
Crime drops when the mob can't price them
Budget's in the red?
Let's tax religion

No one will do it for us
We'll just have to fix ourselves
Honesty ain't all that hard
Just put Rambo back inside your pants
Causing trouble for the system is much more fun

Thank you for the toilet paper
But your flag is meaningless to me
Look around, we're all people
Who needs countries anyway?

Our land, I love it too
I think I love it more than you
I care enough to fight

The stars and stripes of corruption
Let's bring it all down!
If we don't try
If we just lie
If we can't find
A way to do it better than this
Who will?

nice post Free Outer Eugenia

did you write that?

No, I wish I wrote that- it's one of Jello Biafra's.

No, I wish I wrote that- it's one of Jello Biafra's.

*sniff* that was beautiful.

yes thanks for sharing!

*Salutes Jello*

lol. Well I'm glad. I was afraid the entire world was filled with illiterate religious nuts. I mean, damn, even Germany has less racists and anti-semetics than the U.S.

But I see his point though. He is Cuban-American. Which implies that he hasn't seen the rest of the world. Granted, a failed communist society such as Cuba is nothing compared to the U.S., the U.S. is nothing compared to other nations.

Get a backbone, you can't own land, nations don't exist, the nly barriers are philosophical ones. And it's obvious that you share the same beliefs as everyone in the world BUT america olskey.

I mean look. Idiot Christians flocking to see their alleged god get its ass whooped? What kinda nation is this? Or are you just in some costal U.S. city where you don't have to put up with the average American's stupidity.

I mean the arrogance. "America"? That isn't a name of a country. That is a name of a region. And United States isn't a name either. I'd rather be called Nepal than America, solely because we are founded off such pathetic individuals who can't even be trusted to make their own name.

Germany today has very few racists. Thats why I tend to think racism is a bad idea. Germany doesn't like it, and it has direct experience.
I'm one of the anti-americans in these forums, I guess. Its less 'americans' more 'american actions, governance and culture' and well as 'the message america send to the world' and 'Americans attitudes to other countries'.

Also the fact that 'anti-americanism' is seen as this huge crime. If I had to be anti-anyone, it'd be anti-american, because they're the most anti-me.


And I'm fed up of them insulting my nation and my continent, so I want to fire some refutations back. I'm that immature.

Of course, if I'm anti-american, America is anti-everyone.


It can't and won't last forever, of course. All empires crumble. Lets just hope its sooner rather than later.

*bzzt* No. America is the name of the continent. Which holds the countries Canada and the United States of America.

You missed a whole swath of us out there. Like I said earlier, tell a Colombian or an Argentinean that they are anti-Americans and they will laugh at you.

Mushroomius: One little thing that caught my eye: the USA may have proposed and agreed to a lot of things. Pity it can't keep to them. Developing banned chemical weapons, starting illegal laws, etc etc. I'm quite happy to say Britain and the rest of Europe haven't exactly been angels. My problem is with Americans (and British, and French, and any other nationality you care to mention) who think that it's OK for them to do it. It's acceptable to do what you want, because you're a world superpower, and you demand respect.

I really don't care, they had it comming with that arrogance and master race behaviour. But some US people are nice, it is the republicans that are the problem. In the rest of the world, parties like that are considered neonazi or fascist.

Wow, 65% don't care :wink:

***¡Chávez amigo el mundo esta contigo!***
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/flags/ve-lgflag.gif

You missed a whole swath of us out there. Like I said earlier, tell a Colombian or an Argentinean that they are anti-Americans and they will laugh at you.

Oh, I consciously limited myself to the North American continent. I see South America as a separate entity. And I left out Mexico because I can never remember which half it's supposed to belong to. :)

To All: I know that people don't really hate Americans, they just hate one american and the puppet masters with their far right ideas.

George W. Bush

i think some people forget that this country was founded on the principle of dissent. had our founding fathers not dissented against the tyrannical rule of great britian, then we wouldn't even have a country. it's our inalienable right, protected by the constitution, to have to freedom to voice dissent without fear of repercussions. that is what makes this country great, that fact that we can have discourse and disagreements. without that, we are not americans. so to stand up against "anti-americans" is to stand up against what is definitively american.

I wish Americans would be patriotic because of actual facts about their country, and not just because the President says so.

Dissent is no longer okay says teh Bush administration.

They are putting civil rights activists on black lists given to the airlines that are meant to be used to stop known or suspected terrorists from flying.

Also those "free-speech zones" are a product of the same evil conservative frame of mind.

Why's there not a
'I really enjoy the anti-american reteric (sic) of this forum!'
option?

or even a
'Dumb Americans! Can't even spell rhetoric!'

option?

I say it's discrimination!

*starts waving placard*

*bzzt* No.

One of the defining points of liberalism is that liberals don't force anything on anyone. Instead, I can easily turn your example around: you want to force homosexuals to conform to standards that they do not support. If, to stay with your example, homosexual marriage were allowed, so what? It doesn't infringe on your rights (presuming you are a heterosexual).
I'll clarify this once more for those of you too stupid to pick up a history book.

Classical Liberalism: ideology which supports the basic freedoms and rights of man, including but not limited to life, liberty, and property. Examples of Classical Liberals: The founding fathers, Adam Smith.

Modern Liberalism: ideology which supports some basic freedoms but leans much more heavily into Socialism and Socialist Government, things that Classical Liberals fought against tooth and nail in previous centuries.

A Socialist can easily be a Fascist, Hitler showed us that. So, Liberal Fascist is perfectly accurate in this day and age.

*bzzt* No.

One of the defining points of liberalism is that liberals don't force anything on anyone. Instead, I can easily turn your example around: you want to force homosexuals to conform to standards that they do not support. If, to stay with your example, homosexual marriage were allowed, so what? It doesn't infringe on your rights (presuming you are a heterosexual).
I'll clarify this once more for those of you too stupid to pick up a history book.

Classical Liberalism: ideology which supports the basic freedoms and rights of man, including but not limited to life, liberty, and property. Examples of Classical Liberals: The founding fathers, Adam Smith.

Modern Liberalism: ideology which supports some basic freedoms but leans much more heavily into Socialism and Socialist Government, things that Classical Liberals fought against tooth and nail in previous centuries.

A Socialist can easily be a Fascist, Hitler showed us that. So, Liberal Fascist is perfectly accurate in this day and age.

Let's see, a liberal is a fascist because modern liberalism leans towards socialism and a socialist can easily be a fascist, as Hitler proved.

You are a member of the Ku-Klux-Klan. Because Americans can easily be members of the Ku-Klux-Klan, and you are American.

Semantics games, the last resort of a Liberal beaten with logic.

Everyone being equal is communism.

Everyone having an equal chance is capitalism.

You missed a whole swath of us out there. Like I said earlier, tell a Colombian or an Argentinean that they are anti-Americans and they will laugh at you.

Oh, I consciously limited myself to the North American continent. I see South America as a separate entity. And I left out Mexico because I can never remember which half it's supposed to belong to. :)

Hmm, well we still consider ourselves Americans!

Everyone being equal is communism.

Everyone having an equal chance is capitalism.
You only have an equal chance if you start from the same point.
your father had an equal chance of being president? No.

The thing that annoys me is the fact that the citizens of the United States of America think they have the monopoly on the word American. Witness the protests against the Iraq invasion that took place in Colombia, and Chile and Argentina. Call them Anti-American and they will laugh at you because they consider themselves to be Americans, that is people of the American continent.

My Mexican friend suggests that "gringo" is less ambiguous...

Well Einstein, come up with a better word to refer to those things pertaining to the United States of America.

Hmmm... from the United States of America

Unitans, Unitoids
Statens, Statists, Statoids

Semantics

What kind of americans are we talking about here? I mean, Canada, Venezuela and Brazil are all states in america.

If think it is quite insulting for all non-US americans to be bunched up with the members of the US of A... They don't deserve to be sullied with the bad reputation the US of A "enjoy" world-wide!

i think some people forget that this country was founded on the principle of dissent. had our founding fathers not dissented against the tyrannical rule of great britian, then we wouldn't even have a country. it's our inalienable right, protected by the constitution, to have to freedom to voice dissent without fear of repercussions. that is what makes this country great, that fact that we can have discourse and disagreements. without that, we are not americans. so to stand up against "anti-americans" is to stand up against what is definitively american.
Do you have any clue how many countrys have this right. And by the way the way bush is going we already lost alot of freedom of speech. This is a weak and over used and not to mention irellavent argument.

i think some people forget that this country was founded on the principle of dissent. had our founding fathers not dissented against the tyrannical rule of great britian, then we wouldn't even have a country. it's our inalienable right, protected by the constitution, to have to freedom to voice dissent without fear of repercussions. that is what makes this country great, that fact that we can have discourse and disagreements. without that, we are not americans. so to stand up against "anti-americans" is to stand up against what is definitively american.
Tyrannical rule of Great Britain, Christ how you in the US have distorted history. You will be telling me next Mel Gibson makes historicaly accurate films!
Your founding fathers founded the nation upon greed and it has gone on from there since. The tyranical British did not want you to expand westwards and cause conflict with the natives etc etc etc

i think some people forget that this country was founded on the principle of dissent. had our founding fathers not dissented against the tyrannical rule of great britian, then we wouldn't even have a country. it's our inalienable right, protected by the constitution, to have to freedom to voice dissent without fear of repercussions. that is what makes this country great, that fact that we can have discourse and disagreements. without that, we are not americans. so to stand up against "anti-americans" is to stand up against what is definitively american.
Tyrannical rule of Great Britain, Christ how you in the US have distorted history. You will be telling me next Mel Gibson makes historicaly accurate films!
Your founding fathers founded the nation upon greed and it has gone on from there since. The tyranical British did not want you to expand westwards and cause conflict eith the natives etc etc etc

As nations go I do believe that the US is one of the best, yet it is far from perfect as no nation really is. Surely the point is that people can rationally criticise the US and that Americans can rationally respond to such criticism and either take it on board or offer counterarguments. This bipartisan mentality of being either pro or anti-US isn't good for anyone since it doesn't promote rational dialogue and polarises opinion to extremities.

DP

DP

DP

*bzzt* No.

One of the defining points of liberalism is that liberals don't force anything on anyone. Instead, I can easily turn your example around: you want to force homosexuals to conform to standards that they do not support. If, to stay with your example, homosexual marriage were allowed, so what? It doesn't infringe on your rights (presuming you are a heterosexual).
I'll clarify this once more for those of you too stupid to pick up a history book.

Classical Liberalism: ideology which supports the basic freedoms and rights of man, including but not limited to life, liberty, and property. Examples of Classical Liberals: The founding fathers, Adam Smith.

Modern Liberalism: ideology which supports some basic freedoms but leans much more heavily into Socialism and Socialist Government, things that Classical Liberals fought against tooth and nail in previous centuries.

A Socialist can easily be a Fascist, Hitler showed us that. So, Liberal Fascist is perfectly accurate in this day and age.

Let's see, a liberal is a fascist because modern liberalism leans towards socialism and a socialist can easily be a fascist, as Hitler proved.

You are a member of the Ku-Klux-Klan. Because Americans can easily be members of the Ku-Klux-Klan, and you are American.

Wow, what a score in this game, beautifull action from Almaniacs against Dynamo More Dissidence, wich brings the score at 10-0 for Almaniacs.
More Dissidence stupidly admires Almaniacs logics.
So for the latest news from the NSsuperbowl.

Short and to the point: I don't care.

Oh no, some people don't like the USA.

Where have you been for the last forty or so years? Grow up. If you don't like it, leave ;)

I am a Cuban-American ... I am above anything else an American.

Uh, if you're an American "above anything else," then why does "Cuban" come first?

Interesting to see the various views, just wanted to address a couple of points the person who started the post made...Firstly consider the United States claims to be such a wonderful democracy, does he not find it concerning that George Bush came to power with less votes than Al Gore which is not exactly democratic. Secondly, does he not find the vote rigging that occured in Florida in the run up to and during the last presidential election rather anti-democratic?
As for his stuff about equality and so on, id like to point out capitalism is not necessarily a good thing. For example in America, the richest 2.7 million people have as many after tax dollers to spend as the bottom 100 million people. Also the richest CEO's earn on average 419 times the amount that the typical production worker earns which doesn't seem particularly just to me in any way, shape or form. There is also the fact that a student from the top quarter of American families has 19 times the chance of earning a degree as a student from the bottom quarter, again making the claim about equal opportunities in education seem a little hollow!

I am a Cuban-American ... I am above anything else an American.

Uh, if you're an American "above anything else," then why does "Cuban" come first?

Osley just ridiculised himself, wich is indeed above all "American" :wink:

Christ, get over the election. To win you need >50% of the primary vote. If no one has a majority, they go to the electoral college which Bush won. Sure, Gore had more votes in the primary, but Bush won more points in the EC. If you don't understand how the election process works, then you are not entitled to whinge about Bush winning.

I don't care if the Florida vote was rigged or not. I don't like Bush, but I hate people who are of the opinion that because Gore got a few hundred thousand more Bush he should be the winner. It doesn't work like that, you need a majority. Sure, Gore needed 269 more votes to win Florida and therefore the election, but Bush got in going by the way the game is played.

Sure, I don't like that he's in, and there's a fair amount of evidence that something is fishy, but we can't go back and change the past. So stop whinging about Gore not being President. If you really hate it so much, vote for Kerry.

I will always love my country and my flag. No matter what. By country and flag, I do not mean the government! People seem to think that if you disapprove of your government, you should also disapprove of your flag and country as a whole. To me, my flag and country represent my loved ones and my American brothers.


That's one of the things I don't like about liberals. They (all the ones I've met) hate the flag and say they don't like this country, because of the government.

No, I'm not a Republican. I'm actually a very moderate person who is registered as independent.

I admit i don't fully know how the American Electoral system works but thats because im not an American and therefore have no reason for knowing how it works. I would argue that it seems a silly system to not simply have it based on the number of votes. And secondly id say the voting in Florida being rigged is pretty significant myself.

I am an American, living in Ol' Dixie where Whites, Blacks, Mexicans, Native Americans, and such, live. You know, we get along down here, although I see few Native Americans which saddens me greatly. Yet, I know that every Nation that values Freedom and Independence for Its People has a Right to Existance and Speaking about itself every once in a while.

I am, of course, almost tired of hearing people insulting our Allies and Friends over the Atlantic. Never even been to them countries, and I already Respect them because they put up with us, meaning they have Tolerance to our...um....well.....to Patriotism, in which isn't just an American Thing, I believe.

Although I love my country of the United States, and Ol' Dixie ;), I still know that there ARE other Countries out there. Great Britian, or the United Kingdom, I believe Britian, is a Super Power also, so the US isn't the last Super Power. Russia, although it has challenges to get through, can easily become a Super Power once more, and I do believe this because I see them as not only a Country Allied to the US as Friends, but as a Country that has, like all European Nations and Mid-to-Eastern Nations, with a long History and with parts, lots if I am correct, with Good Things.

I value Ol' Dixie, I value America and the United States, and I shall never fail to Thank, Respect, and Value our Allies Over-Seas, all over the World no matter where, whom have stayed by our side through thick and thin, and stay with us as we go through times of change in not only the World, but in the Nation of the United States as well.

May Lord God Almighty the Creator and Lord Jesus Christ the Savior Bless all Nations Around The World as One, so we all Go Forth into Our World-Wide Future with Togetherness, Honor, Dignity, Respect, and Knowledge that not only to People in every Nation, even if most or some don't, DO Love/Like/Acknowledge/Believe, and so on, in their Allies the World Over.



BTW, I consider myself Independent, or nothing at all, since I never pick sides in Politics, and don't want to be fully apart of it either. The way I see it the Right-Wing people, not the Extreme, have most of it right. Left-Wing and Extreme Left-Wing have some of it right, but most of it is actually bullcrap.

Actually, you think of it, both Wings expose Bull-Crap in an attempt to take over what they can. The Ideals of a Nation without Extremists is a lie, since we do have Extremists in Left and Right wings attempting to make their Views by currupting, mainly the Left wing, the system of which has made our Country known.

I am an American, living in Ol' Dixie where Whites, Blacks, Mexicans, Native Americans, and such, live. You know, we get along down here, although I see few Native Americans which saddens me greatly. Yet, I know that every Nation that values Freedom and Independence for Its People has a Right to Existance and Speaking about itself every once in a while.

I am, of course, almost tired of hearing people insulting our Allies and Friends over the Atlantic. Never even been to them countries, and I already Respect them because they put up with us, meaning they have Tolerance to our...um....well.....to Patriotism, in which isn't just an American Thing, I believe.

Although I love my country of the United States, and Ol' Dixie ;), I still know that there ARE other Countries out there. Great Britian, or the United Kingdom, I believe Britian, is a Super Power also, so the US isn't the last Super Power. Russia, although it has challenges to get through, can easily become a Super Power once more, and I do believe this because I see them as not only a Country Allied to the US as Friends, but as a Country that has, like all European Nations and Mid-to-Eastern Nations, with a long History and with parts, lots if I am correct, with Good Things.

I value Ol' Dixie, I value America and the United States, and I shall never fail to Thank, Respect, and Value our Allies Over-Seas, all over the World no matter where, whom have stayed by our side through thick and thin, and stay with us as we go through times of change in not only the World, but in the Nation of the United States as well.

May Lord God Almighty the Creator and Lord Jesus Christ the Savior Bless all Nations Around The World as One, so we all Go Forth into Our World-Wide Future with Togetherness, Honor, Dignity, Respect, and Knowledge that not only to People in every Nation, even if most or some don't, DO Love/Like/Acknowledge/Believe, and so on, in their Allies the World Over.



BTW, I consider myself Independent, or nothing at all, since I never pick sides in Politics, and don't want to be fully apart of it either. The way I see it the Right-Wing people, not the Extreme, have most of it right. Left-Wing and Extreme Left-Wing have some of it right, but most of it is actually bullcrap.

Actually, you think of it, both Wings expose Bull-Crap in an attempt to take over what they can. The Ideals of a Nation without Extremists is a lie, since we do have Extremists in Left and Right wings attempting to make their Views by currupting, mainly the Left wing, the system of which has made our Country known.

I will always love my country and my flag. No matter what. By country and flag, I do not mean the government! People seem to think that if you disapprove of your government, you should also disapprove of your flag and country as a whole. To me, my flag and country represent my loved ones and my American brothers.


That's one of the things I don't like about liberals. They (all the ones I've met) hate the flag and say they don't like this country, because of the government.

No, I'm not a Republican. I'm actually a very moderate person who is registered as independent.

Bravo! Love of country doesn't equal love of the government of the day. We all love our countries and there is not a damn thing wrong with that. I love my country too. I do however have a huge problem with our current government here in Canada. I don't think I could of said it better.

Love of country is not love of the government of the day.. Indeed! 8)

i think some people forget that this country was founded on the principle of dissent. had our founding fathers not dissented against the tyrannical rule of great britian, then we wouldn't even have a country. it's our inalienable right, protected by the constitution, to have to freedom to voice dissent without fear of repercussions. that is what makes this country great, that fact that we can have discourse and disagreements. without that, we are not americans. so to stand up against "anti-americans" is to stand up against what is definitively american.
Tyrannical rule of Great Britain, Christ how you in the US have distorted history. You will be telling me next Mel Gibson makes historicaly accurate films!
Your founding fathers founded the nation upon greed and it has gone on from there since. The tyranical British did not want you to expand westwards and cause conflict eith the natives etc etc etc
I don't think either country is to blame really. The colonys and the British empire just didn't get along at that point. The British tried to do things that they though were okay but it turns out that the Americans wouldn't accept it. I don't think they were really conserned with the native americans, they did fight a war against them not long before. Britian must have done something wrong because there are a whole lot of nations that used to be their colonys.

As an American, I truely believe that all Anti-Americans have every right to voice their opinions about the crappy things the US is doing.

America may have great opportunities and may have done great things, but the opposite is also true.

America could use more than just a little tune-up, if you know what I mean.

While any aspect of America is open to comment, it is relevant to differentiate what aspect you are commenting on. If you are referring to the government or the people of a particular region then it adds weight to your comment if it is focused. Broad generalizations say more about the author than the subject.

America has been "tuning up" as it has evolved and continues to. If you travelled back in time and placed yourself in any earlier period you would hardly recognise it as the America you see today. Both the government and the society has changed dramatically. This is a process that continues so that if you were to travel forward in time, say 50 years it would be equally dramatically unrecognizable.

Is it now better than it was? With all the drawbacks in balance I would say socially, yes. Governmentally? Also yes. Will it be better in the future? Only if people "stay in the game" and continue to question authority and hold their leaders to account. Failure to do this is a blind acquiescence that encourages corrupt leadership and a decaying nation.

:shock:

As an American, I truely believe that all Anti-Americans have every right to voice their opinions about the crappy things the US is doing.

America may have great opportunities and may have done great things, but the opposite is also true.

America could use more than just a little tune-up, if you know what I mean.

While any aspect of America is open to comment, it is relevant to differentiate what aspect you are commenting on. If you are referring to the government or the people of a particular region then it adds weight to your comment if it is focused. Broad generalizations say more about the author than the subject.

America has been "tuning up" as it has evolved and continues to. If you travelled back in time and placed yourself in any earlier period you would hardly recognise it as the America you see today. Both the government and the society has changed dramatically. This is a process that continues so that if you were to travel forward in time, say 50 years it would be equally dramatically unrecognizable.

Is it now better than it was? With all the drawbacks in balance I would say socially, yes. Governmentally? Also yes. Will it be better in the future? Only if people "stay in the game" and continue to question authority and hold their leaders to account. Failure to do this is a blind acquiescence that encourages corrupt leadership and a decaying nation.

:shock:

As an American, I truely believe that all Anti-Americans have every right to voice their opinions about the crappy things the US is doing.

America may have great opportunities and may have done great things, but the opposite is also true.

America could use more than just a little tune-up, if you know what I mean.

While any aspect of America is open to comment, it is relevant to differentiate what aspect you are commenting on. If you are referring to the government or the people of a particular region then it adds weight to your comment if it is focused. Broad generalizations say more about the author than the subject.

America has been "tuning up" as it has evolved and continues to. If you travelled back in time and placed yourself in any earlier period you would hardly recognise it as the America you see today. Both the government and the society has changed dramatically. This is a process that continues so that if you were to travel forward in time, say 50 years it would be equally dramatically unrecognizable.

Is it now better than it was? With all the drawbacks in balance I would say socially, yes. Governmentally? Also yes. Will it be better in the future? Only if people "stay in the game" and continue to question authority and hold their leaders to account. Failure to do this is a blind acquiescence that encourages corrupt leadership and a decaying nation.

:shock:

The thing that annoys me is the fact that the citizens of the United States of America think they have the monopoly on the word American. Witness the protests against the Iraq invasion that took place in Colombia, and Chile and Argentina. Call them Anti-American and they will laugh at you because they consider themselves to be Americans, that is people of the American continent.

The fact is the use of the term, "American" is equally applicable in common usage. It specific meaning is garnered from its context in the sentence. One might refer to a Native American, one desended from the aboriginbal peoples. A person from South American may be referred to as an American or Latino American - shortened to Latino - but generally it is a point of pride to them to distinguish their lineage further as in Columbian or Peruvian or Chilean and even further by their region, town or percentage of Spanish and/or Indian ancestors. The same distinction can be carried to all other countries on both continents and in the waters surrounding them.

The usage of American as a reference to a citizen of the United States of America or of some thing deriving from the USA predates the USA as an entity and was extensively used in the UK.

An interesting early piece on the issue was penned by a French ex-patriot, J. Hector St. John de Crèvecoeur in his work, "Letters from an American Farmer" (Philadelphia: Matthew Carey, 1793

It reads as follows, [i]"What attachment can a poor European emigrant have for a country where he had nothing? The knowledge of the language, the love of a few kindred as poor as himself, were the only cords that tied him: his country is now that which gives him land, bread, protection, and consequences: Ubi panis ibi patria, ["where there is bread, there is my country"] is the motto of all emigrants. What then is the American, this new man? He is either an European, or the descendant of an European, hence that strange mixture of blood, which you will find in no other country. I could point out to you a family whose grandfather was an Englishman, whose wife was Dutch, whose son married a French woman, and whose present four sons have now four wives of different nations. He is an American, who, leaving behind him all his ancient prejudices and manners, receives new ones from the new mode of life he has embraced, the new government he obeys, and the new rank he holds. He becomes an American by being received in the broad lap of our great Alma Mater. Here individuals of all nations are melted into a new race of men, whose labours and posterity will one day cause great changes in the world. Americans are the western pilgrims, who are carrying along with them that great mass of arts, sciences, vigour, and industry which began long since in the east; they will finish the great circle. The Americans were once scattered all over Europe; here they are incorporated into one of the finest systems of population which has ever appeared, and which will hereafter become distinct by the power of the different climates they inhabit. The American ought therefore to love this country much better than that wherein either he or his forefathers were born. Here the rewards of his industry follow with equal steps the progress of his labour; his labour is founded on the basis of nature, self-interest; can it want a stronger allurement? Wives and children, who before in vain demanded of him a morsel of bread, now, fat and frolicsome, gladly help their father to clear those fields whence exuberant crops are to arise to feed and to clothe them all; without any part being claimed, either by a despotic prince, a rich abbot, or a mighty lord. Here religion demands but little of him; a small voluntary salary to the minister and gratitude to God; can he refuse these? The American is a new man, who acts upon new principles; he must therefore entertain new ideas, and form new opinions. From involuntary idleness, servile dependence, penury, and useless labour, he has passed to toils of a very different nature, rewarded by ample subsistence.-This is an American...."

:shock:

The thing that annoys me is the fact that the citizens of the United States of America think they have the monopoly on the word American. Witness the protests against the Iraq invasion that took place in Colombia, and Chile and Argentina. Call them Anti-American and they will laugh at you because they consider themselves to be Americans, that is people of the American continent.

My Mexican friend suggests that "gringo" is less ambiguous...

That term is pejorative. It is meant as a racial slur.

:shock: