NationStates Jolt Archive

Keep in mind, this is a real and well documented military document.
For those of you who have never heard of the Northwoods documents, it goes like this... it was the 60's and the US wanted to invade Cuba, and the only thing keeping them from it was a lack of justification; so, what does the government do when there isn't a problem, they create one: enter the Northwoods documents.

in it, the military proposes sinking a US ship, conducting a terror campaign in Florida, shooting down a civilian plane over Cuba, and yes - even hijacking a civilian plane and blaming it on Cuban terrorist.

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

A news story on the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

:idea: If you read this, please leave a post to express your thoughts.

Why are you supprised? This is the same government that slaughtered Sacco and Vanzetti for being anarchists.


-----------------------------------------
"But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality."
Free your mind! (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)
I like big butts!

http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg

And I fully expect history to discover that Bush allowed Osama to hit the world trade towers once again as his pearl harbor excuse to wage fullscale regional war in all oil producing nations of the world

Why is this surprising?

If the goverment is willing to fire on its own people(Kent State), then they could do that as well.....

Why is this surprising?

If the goverment is willing to fire on its own people(Kent State), then they could do that as well.....

maybe our Govt is the REAL terrorist afterall?

This is the real reason Kennedy was assassinated... at first, Kennedy was a servent of the machine, but upon seeing this report he began to see the light: he starting to pull the US out of Vietnam and started to dismantle the CIA...

This is the real reason Kennedy was assassinated... at first, Kennedy was a servent of the machine, but upon seeing this report he began to see the light: he starting to pull the US out of Vietnam and started to dismantle the CIA...

your a fount of wisdom Texastambul

This is the real reason Kennedy was assassinated... at first, Kennedy was a servent of the machine, but upon seeing this report he began to see the light: he starting to pull the US out of Vietnam and started to dismantle the CIA...
Yeah, I heard that too on the X-files.

Yeah, I heard that too on the X-files.

I really do pity you...

Did you even bother reading the Northwoods Documents, or do you distrust the George Washington University archives?

I know it's easy to discredit the truth as a "conspiracy theory," but why is that? I think it is born out of the fear of asking questions; after all, there is bliss in ignorance -- and slavery as well.

Why is this surprising?

If the goverment is willing to fire on its own people(Kent State), then they could do that as well.....

The Kent State massacre was no accident; it was designed. The Nat'l Guard has extensive training in the rules of engagement, all of which were blatantly ignored. The commanders (all well trained in riot control) moved their men into a severly compromised position: they were literally backed-up against a wall. This was no accident, the grunts were intentially manipulated by their superiors to feel threatend by the violent protesters; the idea that unorganized students could out-flank a highly trained military out-fit is ludicrous.

when will they ever learn the word "conspiracy" is something the oppressors use to discredit anything that gets too close to the truth

when will they ever learn the word "conspiracy" is something the oppressors use to discredit anything that gets too close to the truth
Yeah. Just look what happened to Mulder. Btw, what did happen to Mulder?

Why are you supprised?

I am pretty far from surprised... this is not an isolated incident...

This is the same government that slaughtered Sacco and Vanzetti for being anarchists.

They also burned dozens of innocent people alive in their home, just because they were "creepy cult members," apparently under the Order of the New World "creepy cult members" have no rights, not even the right to live...

the truth is out there...or over here in canada

Yeah. Just look what happened to Mulder. Btw, what did happen to Mulder?

Listen space-monkey, either add to the discussion of leave! What is your point? Did you even read the document, or are you just trained to discredit anything that differs from your nieve view of world power?

the truth is out there...or over here in canada
No. It's locked away in a shoe box under Bush's bed. Along with his S&M gear.

the truth is out there...or over here in canada

Canada is a currupt soviet dictatorship, they've banned books and liken religous messages to hate speech...

the truth is out there...or over here in canada

Canada is a currupt soviet dictatorship, they've banned books and liken religous messages to hate speech...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


.....

Oh wait....you're serious, aren't you? Oh my.... *calls the happy place and waits for the nice men in white coats to arrive*

wheeeeeee don't blame me I'm just silly tonight


-Kits
Ye Olde Forum Urban Legend

U.S. Government the real terrorists? HA Ive herd ghost stories more balievable than this. You make it sound like the hole system is flaud. Maby if alot of you would study the government and sees how it works you would be able to see that its quiet hard for that large scale things to happen with out some one finding out its called checks and balances! for crying out loud people just cuase you aint happy with the gov. doesnt mean its evil and slaughters its own people. Though i must admit the kennedy thing is something that im not sure of but 9/11 happening becuase some one let it? Sheesh you people sound like those 2 faced demacrates trying to say every thing is bush's fault. Only half the country right now has the right to complain cuase the other half didnt even vote last election sheesh! now if you wanna telegram me go ahead :? I need some one to argue with any way.

The US military suggest Kennedy allow them to kill US citizens, giving it about as much moral consideration as one would give getting a hair-cut, and all you can do is mention the X-files!? I will never understand how you are confortable knowing that the most powerful men in the world are sociopaths. Do you not love your country? I for one would die for my country, would die to keep it from becoming a police-state; would'nt you?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

The US military suggest Kennedy allow them to kill US citizens, giving it about as much moral consideration as one would give getting a hair-cut, and all you can do is mention the X-files!? I will never understand how you are confortable knowing that the most powerful men in the world are sociopaths. Do you not love your country? I for one would die for my country, would die to keep it from becoming a police-state; would'nt you?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

I think we're more like the Roman Empire--political assassinations are becoming as common now as they were then--The patrician Bushs of the Roman world killed Julius Caesar then too because he was for the people (populi) and not the corporations and elites

U.S. Government the real terrorists? HA Ive herd ghost stories more balievable than this.

Child, learn to read...

How many "ghost stories" are disclosed and official Pentagon Papers?
How many "ghost stories" are documented in the George Washington University archives?

Please become more involved in the fight for your country or by God we will lose it to maniacal mad-men hell bent on world slavery!

Don't believe everything I say? Fine!
But atleast read what is out-there, and scrutinize the government every step of the way...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

The price of Liberty is ETERNAL vigilance

The US military suggest Kennedy allow them to kill US citizens, giving it about as much moral consideration as one would give getting a hair-cut, and all you can do is mention the X-files!? I will never understand how you are confortable knowing that the most powerful men in the world are sociopaths. Do you not love your country? I for one would die for my country, would die to keep it from becoming a police-state; would'nt you?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

If that was directed at me then:
A. A haircut is not something you should do out of a whim. It should be given some thought. What kind of hair cut do you want? Succesfull business man style. Grunge. Punk. Goth. Military etc.....
B. Of course American presidents are sociopaths. And how can I live with it? What could I do about it?
C. I don't give much thought to dying.
Oh and D. America isn't my country.

The price of Liberty is ETERNAL vigilance
The Price of Freedom. Mate. Wasn't that the title of Wingcommander IV?

For those of you that do not consider University of George Washington archives an source of credible information, then I have added another source of the story... still, the first site contains a PDF file of the report so you can read it for yourself... I hope adding an accredited news source to back up the story will put a rest to all of the "X-files" bullocks...


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

I don't give much thought to dying.


In this age of totalitarianism, you might want to start thinking about all sorts of uncomfortable things.

I don't give much thought to dying.


In this age of totalitarianism, you might want to start thinking about all sorts of uncomfortable things.
Well. I don't live in the US. And the Netherlands are hardly totalitarian.

Has anybody actually read this yet?

Has anybody actually read this yet?
No.

Has anybody actually read this yet?
No.
then you've already lost the war to apathy --
"Evil will triumph when good men do nothing."

Has anybody actually read this yet?
No.
then you've already lost the war to apathy --
"Evil will triumph when good men do nothing."
No. I'm just not in the mood right now.
And what makes you think I'm good anyway?

And what makes you think I'm good anyway?

I see... so you're one of those pro-fascist youth I've seen too many of. Those who were seduced by the show of military power, those who never questioned authority, (always assuming it was wrong to do so) perhaps even believing the big lie you would benefit from life in a police-state... I look at all of you and yell "WAKE UP!"

And what makes you think I'm good anyway?

I see... so you're one of those pro-fascist youth I've seen too many of. Those who were seduced by the show of military power, those who never questioned authority, (always assuming it was wrong to do so) perhaps even believing the big lie you would benefit from life in a police-state... I look at all of you and yell "WAKE UP!"
I just asked what makes you think I'm a good man?
As for waking up. I haven't even slept yet.

Please, everyone... read, download and distribute this!


A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

A news story on the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

Are my post visable to other posters, or has there been some sort of blockade agaist me?

Are my post visable to other posters, or has there been some sort of blockade agaist me?

I suppose it's true

Are my post visable to other posters, or has there been some sort of blockade agaist me?

I suppose it's true

in these troubled times speaking the truth gives birth to hate

If not this, then what will awaken the masses? Are you all going to sit by and allow the gov to fake attacks on citizens just so the military/industrialites can benefit of global war?

Tex, the mass are ignorant and stupid, hence the reason they are the mass, while I personally don't agree with everything you espouse, knowledge is power, and unfortunatly the american gov't currently controls that tap of power stemming from themselves
<thankfully not american, but far too close (small town canadian born and raised, with pride>

Tex, the mass are ignorant and stupid, hence the reason they are the mass, while I personally don't agree with everything you espouse, knowledge is power, and unfortunatly the american gov't currently controls that tap of power stemming from themselves
<thankfully not american, but far too close (small town canadian born and raised, with pride>

please, don't take my word for it... click the link to the University of George Washington archives and download the PDF.

who says i haven't or (as the case is) in the process of doing so ? lol postwhoreness +1

who says i haven't or (as the case is) in the process of doing so ? lol postwhoreness +1

If you become impatiant, then you can skip to pages 10 - 15 (page 13 is particularly gripping) .... once you read what is there you may begin to reanalyze eveything you believe is true...

Buddy I will read it all, or none of it,, no point doing anything half way, every opinion i have or ever will have is based upon research, and as such I will attempt on my own, and through biased and non biased sources of mine try to form my own opinion.
The best kind to have; one formed from personal belief and research (and not when i said i dont belive everything you espouse, i wasnt refering to this article in particular, just other stuff i've seen you post)

Buddy I will read it all, or none of it,, no point doing anything half way, every opinion i have or ever will have is based upon research, and as such I will attempt on my own, and through biased and non biased sources of mine try to form my own opinion.
The best kind to have; one formed from personal belief and research (and not when i said i dont belive everything you espouse, i wasnt refering to this article in particular, just other stuff i've seen you post)

I respect you...

When you finish a document, I would like to continue this conversation...

I encourage everyone to read this deeply troubling document before dismissing my claims...

Don't waste your time respecting me, I'm not worth it, but thats a seperate and irrelevant point; Given time constrants, and simple logistic's I've only read the article posted and not tried any checks on authencity (not that its doubted, seemingly credible source) and other veiwpoints, thats a very disturbing memo there. very disturbing especially if future references prove it true, which would lead credence to many "conspiracy theorist's" point of views.
That seems bothersome how the Intelligence agency plays the game, but it is how all agency's plays the game I would guess (no research, just conjecture(sp?)) but nonetheless that is not acceptable, and if that in anyway is applicable to modern day politics,, this is very disturbing

very disturbing especially if future references prove it true, which would lead credence to many "conspiracy theorist's" point of views.

(my advice to anyone)
Don't deny the "conspiracy theorist" out of hand, listen to them and do your own research...

That seems bothersome how the Intelligence agency plays the game, but it is how all agency's plays the game I would guess (no research, just conjecture(sp?)) but nonetheless that is not acceptable, and if that in anyway is applicable to modern day politics,, this is very disturbing

This is something that should be well distributed and accounted for, as far as its application to tactics used today --- that is undeniable.

very disturbing especially if future references prove it true, which would lead credence to many "conspiracy theorist's" point of views.

(my advice to anyone)
Don't deny the "conspiracy theorist" out of hand, listen to them and do your own research...

That seems bothersome how the Intelligence agency plays the game, but it is how all agency's plays the game I would guess (no research, just conjecture(sp?)) but nonetheless that is not acceptable, and if that in anyway is applicable to modern day politics,, this is very disturbing

This is something that should be well distributed and accounted for, as far as its application to tactics used today --- that is undeniable.

I've never denyed anything without research, and even my own research is flawed, unfortunatly the most convienient resources, are slanted against "the system" or "for the system", a need for more neutral based sources are a definate must, in my opinion to deny anything without research is pointless and a result of prior bias (which I, as a semi-scientist [finishing a diploma in a psuedo-science/emgineering, hopefully get a high level degree eventually] cannot stand). But as I said that is simply opinion, and therefor is essentially useless, but for people with the sources, research is useful, but many people are unknowing or unwilling to put in time or effort, and thus end up with badly biased information, which is worse than none</off topic rant>

I think it would be interesting to find out the true scope of intelligence in the world, the whole "1984" -esq style of life is approaching the USA soon enuf, and I will not be suprised if the rest of the world follows suit soon enuf.</another off topic kinda rant>

I think it would be interesting to find out the true scope of intelligence in the world, the whole "1984" -esq style of life is approaching the USA soon enuf, and I will not be suprised if the rest of the world follows suit soon enuf.</another off topic kinda rant>

We're beyond "1984," we're beyond "doublethink," we're beyond the "memoryhole."

We mocked the election of Saddam in Iraq because he was the only one on the ballot... here we have Kerry V. Bush (they both belong to the same secret society "Skull and Bones" that has only 800 living members)

Saddam was evil because he tortured people, while we are convinced that it is good the the US is torturing "terrorist"...

We are told the war is over even while more soldiers die in peace time...

We are forced to give-up our civil-liberties while the boarders go unpatrolled and incoming crates go unchecked...

the awaikening of massess may be something of a romantic myth,
yet even a slumbering giant may flal about a bit in his sleep.
and it really doesn't matter how big you are if you get enough little guys really pissed.

i have little doubt of what the u.s. or any nation is capable of.
i see no reason to doubt the probability of any of this.

but there is so much blatant irresponsibility and corruption on the part of the current u.s. regeme that is right out in front of god and everybody that we need not even go to the always discreditable maybes, however probable they almost certainly are.

what WILL 'the massess' do? often the exact opposite of what makes sense just because somebody said it does. but if bush is counting on this to happen he's betting on a far from certain proposition as well.

other then casting votes and a few honest cops arresting a few key figures on whatever minor charges can be made to stick, what are the massess to do?

i don't know but i do hope something positive will come of all this and that people WILL wake up. historicly it hasn't happened often, but it HAS happened.

=^^=
.../\...

This isn't even an isolated incident...
There is audio-tape that proves the FBI organized the WTC bombing in '93... it was a big story back when first broke, since then the mass-media has all but ignored it

http://100777.com/node/view/97

The FBI Organized it? I read the link, and no. :roll:

The FBI Organized it? I read the link, and no. :roll:

You read the link, and the information didn't jump out at you... you read the link and didn't ask yourself, "could there be more to this?"
You didn't research into it, you read the link and dismissed it...
How long will you keep your head in the sand? How long will you leave your post unguarded?

I doubt you even read what I have handed you... apathy is suicide

The FBI Organized it? I read the link, and no. :roll:

You read the link, and the information didn't jump out at you... you read the link and didn't ask yourself, "could there be more to this?"
You didn't research into it, you read the link and dismissed it...
How long will you keep your head in the sand? How long will you leave your post unguarded?

I doubt you even read what I have handed you... apathy is suicide

I read the link, and what I got from it was that the FBI was criminally negligent at worst. They didn't organize the attack as you claim, and truth be told we don't know what the FBI was thinking. Maybe there could be more. Perhaps they didn't think he was a credible informant, and he was trying to create a diversion or elsewhere? Perhaps they didn't want to spray some chemical - which, to me, has an unknown cost and unknown effect on humans - all over the WTC parking garages? I don't know, really, but you saw with the war in Iraq how sketchy human intellegence can be - especially defectors / informants - so the FBI might have been right to take this with a grain of salt.

I read the link, and what I got from it was that the FBI was criminally negligent at worst. - so the FBI might have been right to take this with a grain of salt.


Keep up with the doublethink... you're getting quite good at it...
2 + 2 = 5

I'm beginning to think that I can never expect substance but just accusations, questions, and insults.

I'm beginning to think that I can never expect substance but just accusations, questions, and insults.
accusations... yes, and if you don't believe them, do your own reaserch!
questions... yes, that is all part of your responsibility as a citizen in a free society!

insult... I pointed out an inconsistancy in your thought pattern, you first claim that "the FBI was criminally negligent" but by the end of the sentence you profess that the "might have been right" --
Do you hear yourself? You are willing to dismiss their obvious guilt by reflex! You don't have to submit yourself to that kind of doublethink, you can arm yourself by doing your own research (it's okay to ask questions)

I said they were "Criminally Negligent" at worst

I said they were "Criminally Negligent" at worst

well, it's a good thing that a kid reading one article on-line can pull that together from undisputed evidence -- too bad the Gov't didn't think it was important enought to persue a real investigation into FBI involvement in the WTC bombing... maybe they didn't think it was a big deal, after all
Would Big Brother really try to hurt us?

:roll:

As far as I know, you're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you, to supply the research, not us, to do it for you.

:roll:

As far as I know, you're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you, to supply the research, not us, to do it for you.

Actually, it is every citizens job to seek all information and scrutinize the government... I'd hoped you'ld find some interest in learning the truth...

I know the truth. Or what I think is the truth. I don't need to waste my time persuing theories on 3rd-wate websites about things like this. I know what the truth is, and until someone can prove to me that thats not right - either by an informed post with the links / resources, I'm not going to waste my time looking for something thats not there.

I know the truth. Or what I think is the truth

You see that... that's doubt, you're beginning to doubt your world view -- beginning to realize that you're being lied to... that should make you angry; you need to focus that energy on finding the truth -- research and you will find the truth...

I don't need to waste my time persuing theories on 3rd-wate websites about things like this. I know what the truth is, and until someone can prove to me that thats not right - either by an informed post with the links / resources, I'm not going to waste my time looking for something thats not there.

The sites I've listed are the George Washington University arcives, ABC news, and the NY Times... what do you want, Bush to personally call you and admit everything you're too lazy to research is true?

Agian... anyone who reads the initail PDF, feel free to comment

THat is frightening in its reality.

THat is frightening in its reality.
I encourage everyone to download it and distribute it to everyone they know... Americans must learn the ugly truth...

THat is frightening in its reality.
Is this an automated response.?

I know the truth. Or what I think is the truth

You see that... that's doubt, you're beginning to doubt your world view -- beginning to realize that you're being lied to... that should make you angry; you need to focus that energy on finding the truth -- research and you will find the truth...

I don't need to waste my time persuing theories on 3rd-wate websites about things like this. I know what the truth is, and until someone can prove to me that thats not right - either by an informed post with the links / resources, I'm not going to waste my time looking for something thats not there.

The sites I've listed are the George Washington University arcives, ABC news, and the NY Times... what do you want, Bush to personally call you and admit everything you're too lazy to research is true?

Texas, I don't have time for this. Really. You posted one link about the WTC '93 Bombings, and thats what I responded on. You didn't post anything with ABC, or GW University archives on that subject.

Texas, I don't have time for this. Really.
what? reading... you spend all day on an internet forum but you can't click three links?

You posted one link about the WTC '93 Bombings, and thats what I responded on.
Okay, that's nice... You even admitted they were guilty of "criminal negligence" I suppose trying to convince yourself that it was for the good of the country has been exhausting...

You didn't post anything with ABC, or GW University archives on that subject.
My first post, I ask you to read it again (if you ever bothered to in the first place) The "subject" is the fact that the Federal Gov has a history of "faking" terrorism to promote their own agendas...

Agian... anyone who reads the initail PDF, feel free to comment

The silence is deafening...

what? reading... you spend all day on an internet forum but you can't click three links?
No, I don't have time to get into even more of a phony debate with you.

Okay, that's nice... You even admitted they were guilty of "criminal negligence" I suppose trying to convince yourself that it was for the good of the country has been exhausting...
I said at worst they were guilty of criminal negligence. Just because I say Micheal Jackson might be guitly dosen't mean that he is.

My first post, I ask you to read it again (if you ever bothered to in the first place) The "subject" is the fact that the Federal Gov has a history of "faking" terrorism to promote their own agendas...
I was referring to the '93 bombings.

If this is so important then why post it on an internet nation simulation game owned by an Australian? We didn't come here to listen to conspiracies; we came here to run 'nations' and interact with other people around the world.

If this is so important then why post it on an internet nation simulation game owned by an Australian? We didn't come here to listen to conspiracies; we came here to run 'nations' and interact with other people around the world.

i believe his intention is to bring this information to the eyes of people who may [or may not] have some interest in the workings of modern governments. as it is, i find this document confirms some of my own fears about our caring governments, and you should also find it relevant.

i believe his intention is to bring this information to the eyes of people who may [or may not] have some interest in the workings of modern governments. as it is, i find this document confirms some of my own fears about our caring governments, and you should also find it relevant.

Think you, and yes... I find it very interesting that I, myself, had not heard of this document until this week... when I heard about it, I didn't believe it, but when I found a copy of it on from a credible source I knew why I hadn't heard of it: you see, I'm a news junky; ever since I was in second grade and there was a military standoff in a Texas church, I've absorbed every bit of knowledge passed infront of me -- with suspicion.

Why haven't we ever heard mention of this documnet before? Why didn't this create a huge stir? Why is Mass-Media failing to connect-the-dots and ask the hard questions?

Everyone, if you haven't read this official gov't document, I urge you to as an American citizen, or as a citizen of the world...

Im awake--mosdtly

Im awake--mosdtly
Have you read the PDF from the first site? If so, spread the word -- use both links for clarity -- this is a REAL GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT that everyone needs to read!!!

Im awake--mosdtly
Have you read the PDF from the first site? If so, spread the word -- use both links for clarity -- this is a REAL GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT that everyone needs to read!!!

can you relink it please?

I'm sure we have plans for everything imaginable. How is this news?

can you relink it please?

in it, the military proposes sinking a US ship, conducting a terror campaign in Florida, shooting down a civilian plane over Cuba, and yes - even hijacking a civilian plane and blaming it on Cuban terrorist.

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

A news story on the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

I'm sure we have plans for everything imaginable. How is this news?
It isn't... the US has been conducting terrorism on it's own people for a long time...

The fact that nobody seems to care is what I find most alarming...

in it, the military proposes sinking a US ship, conducting a terror campaign in Florida, shooting down a civilian plane over Cuba, and yes - even hijacking a civilian plane and blaming it on Cuban terrorist.

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

A news story on the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html


DISTRIBUTE THIS TO EVERYONE!!!

Why are you supprised?

Think about how this realates to todays world... who has the most to gain from attacking America? -- The police state is coming!

No, I don't have time to get into even more of a phony debate with you.

Then don't!
Just read the PDF on the NORTHWOODS DOCUMENT (it speaks for itself)...

Hey Texastambul,

I agree with you in nearly all of what you are saying, and am in the process of reading the initial pdf. But don't immediately assume that everyone who contradicts you has their eyes closed. On some of the things you have said there are alternate reasonable opinions. You will convince more people to believe you if you calmly have discussions with them arguing your point. If you immediately write them off as slaves to Big Brother, you lose the potential to open their eyes to your point of view. Calm discussion is the key, not in-your-face insults and accustaions. I see that you have the research and knowledge to discuss this stuff, so it is now your duty to do so. Spread the knowledge yourself. Calmly, or people will look away.

Best of luck to you, changing the masses is a big task, but a worthy one.

The US military suggest Kennedy allow them to kill US citizens, giving it about as much moral consideration as one would give getting a hair-cut, and all you can do is mention the X-files!? I will never understand how you are confortable knowing that the most powerful men in the world are sociopaths. Do you not love your country? I for one would die for my country, would die to keep it from becoming a police-state; would'nt you?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

I think we're more like the Roman Empire--political assassinations are becoming as common now as they were then--The patrician Bushs of the Roman world killed Julius Caesar then too because he was for the people (populi) and not the corporations and elites

Shut up. Read Tacitus and Livy, and THEN see if we're like the Roman Empire. There is little comparison between Bush or Tiberius, Caligula or Nero.

Your posts reek with hyperbole and ludicrous comparisons. A shame.

Hey Texastambul,

I agree with you in nearly all of what you are saying, and am in the process of reading the initial pdf. But don't immediately assume that everyone who contradicts you has their eyes closed. On some of the things you have said there are alternate reasonable opinions. You will convince more people to believe you if you calmly have discussions with them arguing your point. If you immediately write them off as slaves to Big Brother, you lose the potential to open their eyes to your point of view. Calm discussion is the key, not in-your-face insults and accustaions. I see that you have the research and knowledge to discuss this stuff, so it is now your duty to do so. Spread the knowledge yourself. Calmly, or people will look away.

Best of luck to you, changing the masses is a big task, but a worthy one.


Thank you for the advice, as it is something I hold true...


However, I do not see where I have passed on undue insults, only where I have admonished those who disagree with me without even bothering to read the PDF and those who tried to undermine the PDF and liken it to science-fiction...

I will not tolerate that sort of equation and anyone who finds me offensive should read the NORTHWOODS DOCUMENTS regardless...

Thank you for downloading the aforementioned document, please distribute it to everyone...

I for one would die for my country, would die to keep it from becoming a police-state; would'nt you?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

the biggest threat to freedom is the aggressiveness of gratuitous pseudoconventionality, that is what we most need to be vigilant against, IF freedom is what we really want, and not just a fashonable posture we want to look like we're supporting.

this is why the aggressiveness of gratuitous pseudoconventionality is
something i make every honest and sincere effort to avoid being of any use at all whatsoever to.

aside from it's also being the most harmful and destrictive force objectively known to exist in all of existence.

=^^=
.../\...

the biggest threat to freedom is the aggressiveness of gratuitous pseudoconventionality
:?:

Great, a Kerry for president liberal slanted arrtical. They even try to paint Oliver North as a drug runner, even though those charges were dropped do to a lack of evidence. Which the site fails to mention.

Find out just how far they will go to push America into war:

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

A news story on the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

Great, a Kerry for president liberal slanted arrtical. They even try to paint Oliver North as a drug runner, even though those charges were dropped do to a lack of evidence. Which the site fails to mention.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but there are no links on this forum that have anything to do with Kerry or Oliver North... further more, the PDF I've linked to is an official Government/Military document and is avaliable on the George Washington University web archives..

Best of luck to you, changing the masses is a big task, but a worthy one.

I don't think we can rely on luck anymore...

Great, a Kerry for president liberal slanted arrtical. They even try to paint Oliver North as a drug runner, even though those charges were dropped do to a lack of evidence. Which the site fails to mention.

This makes me a little paranoid; either you are mistaken, or the site is being redirected? What exactly are the rest of you seeing when you click on the links?

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

A news story on the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

Click the above link for something the government doesn't want you to see!

Click the above link for something the government doesn't want you to see!

It's also something you NEED to see!!!

:roll:

The military constantly plays war games... and in this case even the Democrats ( Kennedy ), who got us involved in Vietnam in the first place, would not pay attention to this.

Did you know that during the Korean War we had a plan to poison all the rivers in North Korea? We did not do it though.

Did you know we continuously planned to attack/defend from attack, Russia for over fifty years?

And we still do.

This is what the Military does. It plans. It practices. Over and over again.

Why do you think the office of President is a civilian job?

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

To be frank Tex, I'm more surprised at your sense of shock. It seems to me that only the average American is unaware of the dirty deeds of successive US governments. Whenever someone posts here, implying this sort of thing, they're usually shouted down as idiots and anti-American. If, as seems highly unlikely, you do open a few more American eyes, good. But I've no doubt the average American will slump back in front of Fox news and believe every word they tell them.

:roll:
The military constantly plays war games... and in this case even the Democrats ( Kennedy ), who got us involved in Vietnam in the first place, would not pay attention to this.

Perhaps you're mistaken, this isn't a "war game" this is a document that spells out the military's plan to conduct a "terrorist attack" on US citizens (for real) in order to justify an invasion of Cuba...

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

To be frank Tex, I'm more surprised at your sense of shock. It seems to me that only the average American is unaware of the dirty deeds of successive US governments. Whenever someone posts here, implying this sort of thing, they're usually shouted down as idiots and anti-American. If, as seems highly unlikely, you do open a few more American eyes, good. But I've no doubt the average American will slump back in front of Fox news and believe every word they tell them.

Be that as it may; I see no reason to stop fighting tyranny... Don't you get it yet? We're living in a military/industrial police state; the New World Order is already in process... we have to do something!

People in the Soviet Union thought they were free, and they were -- just as free as we are today...
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUNS
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR FREEDOMS
NEVER GIVE UP

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

To be frank Tex, I'm more surprised at your sense of shock. It seems to me that only the average American is unaware of the dirty deeds of successive US governments. Whenever someone posts here, implying this sort of thing, they're usually shouted down as idiots and anti-American. If, as seems highly unlikely, you do open a few more American eyes, good. But I've no doubt the average American will slump back in front of Fox news and believe every word they tell them.

I have not read all the posts and I don’t care to. If this report was acted upon, someone should be hung. ( the part about killing civilians anyway ) AS far as attacking what was a threat to the US at the time … big fucking deal.

This is not a complicated story. Has the USA made great errors and cost people their lives … Hell YES!

We all know where to look and if not I will remind you … THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN INDIANS!

This in my opinion is where the US is at it’s worst ( right up there with slavery ). It was US policy to expand the country and push out the Indians or slaughter them.

But for all those rabid anti USA people… name me a country that has had the capacity to realize its mistakes and go to great lengths in order to correct things as best it can?

The USA is a great country that has made mistakes and has tried to correct them. Maybe not all

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

To be frank Tex, I'm more surprised at your sense of shock. It seems to me that only the average American is unaware of the dirty deeds of successive US governments. Whenever someone posts here, implying this sort of thing, they're usually shouted down as idiots and anti-American. If, as seems highly unlikely, you do open a few more American eyes, good. But I've no doubt the average American will slump back in front of Fox news and believe every word they tell them.

Don't you get it yet?

Well yes I do, I would have thought my post made that clear. And being a Brit living in England I, like most Euros are already aware of this sort of stuff. Now, do you get it?

:roll:
The military constantly plays war games... and in this case even the Democrats ( Kennedy ), who got us involved in Vietnam in the first place, would not pay attention to this.

Perhaps you're mistaken, this isn't a "war game" this is a document that spells out the military's plan to conduct a "terrorist attack" on US citizens (for real) in order to justify an invasion of Cuba...

Perhaps you just don't understand how the system works. Military think tanks dream the stuff up. It then goes to a superior. Who then goes to their superior. We are now at the Major or Colonel level.

Now some nit wit Colonel how is under pressure to come up with a plan and tells his subordinates to write this up as a war plan.

He then passes it off to the General, who I might add has not had to think for himself in a very long time. The General then takes it to the President and says “Here ya go Sir!”

[

But for all those rabid anti USA people… name me a country that has had the capacity to realize its mistakes and go to great lengths in order to correct things as best it can?

The USA is a great country that has made mistakes and has tried to correct them. Maybe not all

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Doea anyone read a post before replying? I said clearly that people that attempt to point out American hypocracy and naughtiness are branded as anti-American, which allows other Americans to continue to ignore what most of the rest of the world already knows. Criticising a friend is not 'anti-friend'.

[

But for all those rabid anti USA people… name me a country that has had the capacity to realize its mistakes and go to great lengths in order to correct things as best it can?

The USA is a great country that has made mistakes and has tried to correct them. Maybe not all

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Doea anyone read a post before replying? I said clearly that people that attempt to point out American hypocracy and naughtiness are branded as anti-American, which allows other Americans to continue to ignore what most of the rest of the world already knows. Criticising a friend is not 'anti-friend'.

*scratches head... "I was not attacking you. Just responding. You also edited out the part were I agree with you..."

"If you were offended by the term anti american I will retract it. Better?"

Perhaps you just don't understand how the system works. Military think tanks dream the stuff up. It then goes to a superior. Who then goes to their superior. We are now at the Major or Colonel level.

Now some nit wit Colonel how is under pressure to come up with a plan and tells his subordinates to write this up as a war plan.

He then passes it off to the General, who I might add has not had to think for himself in a very long time. The General then takes it to the President and says “Here ya go Sir!”

These men are sociopaths who plotted a "terror attack" on Miami to scare citizens into a war!? Do I understand the system? Yes... I understand it well enough that I am physically ill -- Do you understand that this almost happened? Do you understand that this probably isn't an isolated event? Do you understand that what the wanted to do in the 60's to get us into Cuba is the same thing they did in 2001 to get us into Afghanistan and Iraq? They kill Americans, blame it on the flavor of the week, and then they gain more and more power over us -- until what? Until we're their slaves? This isn't about money, they print they money -- they have every luxory they could ever want -- and still they kill and lie and kill some more -- what do they want? I don't know, but we need to stop them -- it has to start with the states -- the states can end thier affiliation with the Feds and then we can dismantle the NWO machine bit by bit, piece by piece...

Well yes I do, I would have thought my post made that clear. And being a Brit living in England I, like most Euros are already aware of this sort of stuff. Now, do you get it?

Then you know that this isn't isolated to just the US and Bush cabal -- what is happening on your front? what are your Fed's doing?

Perhaps you just don't understand how the system works. Military think tanks dream the stuff up. It then goes to a superior. Who then goes to their superior. We are now at the Major or Colonel level.

Now some nit wit Colonel how is under pressure to come up with a plan and tells his subordinates to write this up as a war plan.

He then passes it off to the General, who I might add has not had to think for himself in a very long time. The General then takes it to the President and says “Here ya go Sir!”

These men are sociopaths who plotted a "terror attack" on Miami to scare citizens into a war!? Do I understand the system? Yes... I understand it well enough that I am physically ill -- Do you understand that this almost happened? Do you understand that this probably isn't an isolated event? Do you understand that what the wanted to do in the 60's to get us into Cuba is the same thing they did in 2001 to get us into Afghanistan and Iraq? They kill Americans, blame it on the flavor of the week, and then they gain more and more power over us -- until what? Until we're their slaves? This isn't about money, they print they money -- they have every luxory they could ever want -- and still they kill and lie and kill some more -- what do they want? I don't know, but we need to stop them -- it has to start with the states -- the states can end thier affiliation with the Feds and then we can dismantle the NWO machine bit by bit, piece by piece...

That might make sense if Afghanistan had any natural resources at all, besides Opium Poppy.

Really, Pepsiholics are right. Recently there was a report from the Pentagon saying the world would collapse into a huge war, and much of it would become Siberia-like Tundra within 30 years, due to Global Warming. Does that mean that they think its true? No, it dosen't, but they do those types of things anyway. This one might be different (I have to examine the original document closely), but chances are it isn't.

Well yes I do, I would have thought my post made that clear. And being a Brit living in England I, like most Euros are already aware of this sort of stuff. Now, do you get it?

Then you know that this isn't isolated to just the US and Bush cabal -- what is happening on your front? what are your Fed's doing?
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Of course. Difference is that we euros expect it of the military and politicos. The latest, though mild, piece of news from here is that we're bugging Koffi Annans UN office.......and probably all UN offices. You don't believe that the UK and US don't spy on each other do you? Even through the friendliest periods. It's called Real-politik. Honestly, at the risk of sounding anti-American' it really is only Americans that have this benign view of their own government.

These men are sociopaths who plotted a "terror attack" on Miami to scare citizens into a war!? Do I understand the system? Yes... I understand it well enough that I am physically ill -- Do you understand that this almost happened? Do you understand that this probably isn't an isolated event? Do you understand that what the wanted to do in the 60's to get us into Cuba is the same thing they did in 2001 to get us into Afghanistan and Iraq? They kill Americans, blame it on the flavor of the week, and then they gain more and more power over us -- until what? Until we're their slaves? This isn't about money, they print they money -- they have every luxory they could ever want -- and still they kill and lie and kill some more -- what do they want? I don't know, but we need to stop them -- it has to start with the states -- the states can end thier affiliation with the Feds and then we can dismantle the NWO machine bit by bit, piece by piece...

Do you actually believe the crap you write. The US did not kill its own citizens at 9/11. We were attacted. And whether you agree with the war or not, everyone knew the USA would retaliate in a big way. It had to. Otherwise, it would appear weak and the more and more people would take pot shots at us.

Well yes I do, I would have thought my post made that clear. And being a Brit living in England I, like most Euros are already aware of this sort of stuff. Now, do you get it?

Then you know that this isn't isolated to just the US and Bush cabal -- what is happening on your front? what are your Fed's doing?

I have not read all the posts and I don’t care to.
Don' t read the post then, just read the PDF on the first link I gave you...


If this report was acted upon, someone should be hung. ( the part about killing civilians anyway )

Even if this document wasn't acted upon, what makes you think that others weren't!? Can you really look at it and say, "It's just an anomaly, todays government would never do that." I do not think that you can.

AS far as attacking what was a threat to the US at the time … big f--- deal.

If they were a threat, then why did we have to "make-up" a reason to invade them

I believe that the government would have been perfectly justified in invading Cuba without anything else. The reason? Deprive the Soviets of a base for their operations in the Western Hemisphere.

I believe that the government would have been perfectly justified in invading Cuba without anything else. The reason? Deprive the Soviets of a base for their operations in the Western Hemisphere.


So why did they even consider murding US citizens? Does that fact "justify" murdering innocent citizens?
Besides that, the US had a base of operations even closer to the USSR.

I believe that the government would have been perfectly justified in invading Cuba without anything else. The reason? Deprive the Soviets of a base for their operations in the Western Hemisphere.


So why did they even consider murding US citizens? Does that fact "justify" murdering innocent citizens?
Besides that, the US had a base of operations even closer to the USSR.
And we should've kept our nukes in Turkey, too.

And we should've kept our nukes in Turkey, too.

So our nukes keep the peace and their nukes instigate war?

Doublethink about it: "It is important for a super-power to have nuclear weapons near another super-power because a super-power having nuclear weapons near another super-power is justification for war"

It's all hidden in plain view


A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

And we should've kept our nukes in Turkey, too.

So our nukes keep the peace and their nukes instigate war?

Doublethink about it: "It is important for a super-power to have nuclear weapons near another super-power because a super-power having nuclear weapons near another super-power is justification for war"

Are you familiar with George Orwell's (Eric Blair's) novel, "1984"
It should be mandatory reading for all US citizens as a safe-guard to tyranny

And we should've kept our nukes in Turkey, too.

So our nukes keep the peace and their nukes instigate war?


Nope. However, Turkey was a strategic position. During the Cuban Missle Crisis, we could've invaded Cuba without much Soviet action. They couldn't invade Turkey, as it was a NATO member, and the rest of the members were bound by treaty to defend them. Nuking Turkey may have been the only option, but the Soviets knew that it was suicide to use nukes. So, unless the Soviet Union wanted to annihilate the world, it couldn't invade Turkey, or use its nukes. And if we used our nukes just to make the Soviets angrier, I'd never forgive the government. But anyhow, Turkey was a nice, safe place for a little projection of power. The Soviets knew we'd never use them. But then again, the missles could've also been fitted with less politically unstable conventional warheads.

Nope. However, Turkey was a strategic position. During the Cuban Missle Crisis, we could've invaded Cuba without much Soviet action.

No, during the Cuban Missle Crisis the Soviets had nuclear subs all around Cuba, after the US fired upon a Russian ship three Russian Admerals voted on firing their nuclear payload... two voted yes, one voted no
That's how close we came...

THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS ETERNAL VIGILANCE

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/[/quote]

Nope. However, Turkey was a strategic position. During the Cuban Missle Crisis, we could've invaded Cuba without much Soviet action.

No, during the Cuban Missle Crisis the Soviets had nuclear subs all around Cuba, after the US fired upon a Russian ship three Russian Admerals voted on firing their nuclear payload... two voted yes, one voted no
That's how close we came...
In that case, we could've waited to invade Cuba. We could've moved our nukes in Turkey to Greece until an invasion began, then moved them back to Turkey.

THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS ETERNAL VIGILANCE

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/[/quote]

Thanks Patriot --dont let THE MAN get you down 8)

In that case,
Historic, documented fact.

we could've waited to invade Cuba.
We had no reason to invade Cuba, that's why they tried to kill US citizens... Kennedy wasn't amused...

We could've moved our nukes in Turkey to Greece until an invasion began, then moved them back to Turkey.

Or we could have left them alone and they never would have needed to militarize Cuba...

In that case,
Historic, documented fact.

we could've waited to invade Cuba.
We had no reason to invade Cuba, that's why they tried to kill US citizens... Kennedy wasn't amused...

We could've moved our nukes in Turkey to Greece until an invasion began, then moved them back to Turkey.

Or we could have left them alone and they never would have needed to militarize Cuba...
Oh but they'd get around to militarizing Cuba. For one, a nation in your camp ninety miles from your enemy isn't just gonna do nothing. For another, Khurschev thought of Kennedy as a president that could be pushed around after the Bay of Pigs. Don't say the invasion itself was what made Khurschev do it. It was the fact that the invasion failed that he did it, and more importantly, was even able to stage missles there.

Oh but they'd get around to militarizing Cuba.

What makes you think Castro wanted Soviet militarization?

For one, a nation in your camp ninety miles from your enemy isn't just gonna do nothing.

What, like Turkey? No wonder the Soviets were paranoid!

For another, Khurschev thought of Kennedy as a president that could be pushed around after the Bay of Pigs.

Why even go through all the trouble of the "Bay of Pigs," why not just let Cubans decide the fate of Cuba?

Don't say the invasion itself was what made Khurschev do it. It was the fact that the invasion failed that he did it, and more importantly, was even able to stage missles there.

Why not? Before the CIA invasion Cuba had no reason to seek protection from the Soviets, the "Bay of Pigs" pushed Castro into that position...
and besides that, you're forgetting the chronology -- the US had missiles in Turkey first, the USSR was playing catch-up, and only after the US attacked a sovereign nation.

THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS ETERNAL VIGILANCE

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

Thanks Patriot --dont let THE MAN get you down 8)

Have you read the document yet? The actual PDF, not just the synopsis on the site... have you read it? If you have, then I ask you to do your duty as a Patriot and distribute it -- put the word out there, the sociopaths controlling the military-government are not to be trusted and the military/industrial complex must be dismantled

If we fail, they will not stop attacking US citizens until there is a GLOBAL POLICE STATE... a year ago, I wouldn't have believed this all myself, but I am asking everyone of you to start thinking critically and acting vigilantly... we have nothing to lose but EVERYTHING!

THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS ETERNAL VIGILANCE

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

Thanks Patriot --dont let THE MAN get you down 8)

Have you read the document yet? The actual PDF, not just the synopsis on the site... have you read it? If you have, then I ask you to do your duty as a Patriot and distribute it -- put the word out there, the sociopaths controlling the military-government are not to be trusted and the military/industrial complex must be dismantled

If we fail, they will not stop attacking US citizens until there is a GLOBAL POLICE STATE... a year ago, I wouldn't have believed this all myself, but I am asking everyone of you to start thinking critically and acting vigilantly... we have nothing to lose but EVERYTHING!

Ill mass distribute it on these email groups that Im on and everywhere else that I can

Oh but they'd get around to militarizing Cuba.

What makes you think Castro wanted Soviet militarization?

For one, a nation in your camp ninety miles from your enemy isn't just gonna do nothing.

What, like Turkey? No wonder the Soviets were paranoid!

For another, Khurschev thought of Kennedy as a president that could be pushed around after the Bay of Pigs.

Why even go through all the trouble of the "Bay of Pigs," why not just let Cubans decide the fate of Cuba?

Don't say the invasion itself was what made Khurschev do it. It was the fact that the invasion failed that he did it, and more importantly, was even able to stage missles there.

Why not? Before the CIA invasion Cuba had no reason to seek protection from the Soviets, the "Bay of Pigs" pushed Castro into that position...
and besides that, you're forgetting the chronology -- the US had missiles in Turkey first, the USSR was playing catch-up, and only after the US attacked a sovereign nation.
Castro would've eventually milaterized. What ever he thought about us, the big bad eagle was ninety miles away, and the two didn't share the same idealogue. The Soviet Union did. It was for that reason that Castro would've aligned himself eventually. In fact, don't forget that things started happening only after Castro declared himself in the Soviet bloc in 1961. I would've supported, once we invaded, having Cuba choose its own leaders. And if Castro was their choice, fine. But the way he came to power was questionable. And if the revolution really had that wide of support, why did it send off an exodus of Cubans to Florida?

Castro would've eventually milaterized.

That's speculation and we'll never know because the US acted first (by illegally invading a sovereign nation)

I would've supported, once we invaded, having Cuba choose its own leaders. And if Castro was their choice, fine.
Why, is the US the police of the world -- let the Cubans take care of Cuba, they don't need a bunch of trigger-happy gringoes calling the the shots for them...

But the way he came to power was questionable. And if the revolution really had that wide of support, why did it send off an exodus of Cubans to Florida? A lot of people come to power in questionable ways, the US isn't the police of the world...

And besides all of that, the point is this: The Gov't planned to kill US citizens to justify an invasion of Cuba

Castro would've eventually milaterized.

That's speculation and we'll never know because the US acted first (by illegally invading a sovereign nation)

I would've supported, once we invaded, having Cuba choose its own leaders. And if Castro was their choice, fine.
Why, is the US the police of the world -- let the Cubans take care of Cuba, they don't need a bunch of trigger-happy gringoes calling the the shots for them...

But the way he came to power was questionable. And if the revolution really had that wide of support, why did it send off an exodus of Cubans to Florida? A lot of people come to power in questionable ways, the US isn't the police of the world...

And besides all of that, the point is this: The Gov't planned to kill US citizens to justify an invasion of Cuba
Why did it need a plan to try and justify invading Cuba? The justification was there. It was a communist nation in allegiance with the Soviet Union before the Bay of Pigs. It certainly would've been used by the Soviet Union in the future. They wanted the US government, preferably, a communist nation, or non existent. It represented a threat, and we had every right to invade from about 1960 on.

Why did it need a plan to try and justify invading Cuba? The justification was there. It was a communist nation in allegiance with the Soviet Union before the Bay of Pigs. It certainly would've been used by the Soviet Union in the future.

So a nation simply being communist creates justification for war? Hell, why didn't we just jump straight to bombing the USSR then, they were communist too -- and I am sure they were allied with themselves by default. Are you really thinking things through here, or are you just trying to avoid the point that the US tried to instigate WWIII by killing US citizens?

Why did it need a plan to try and justify invading Cuba? The justification was there. It was a communist nation in allegiance with the Soviet Union before the Bay of Pigs. It certainly would've been used by the Soviet Union in the future.

So a nation simply being communist creates justification for war? Hell, why didn't we just jump straight to bombing the USSR then, they were communist too -- and I am sure they were allied with themselves by default. Are you really thinking things through here, or are you just trying to avoid the point that the US tried to instigate WWIII by killing US citizens?
It wouldn't have started WWIII, because at the time, Soviet armies could've been easily isolated. Nevertheless, what I am saying is that a plan like this wasn't needed. It probably did exist, I don't deny it. Some very weird things have happened in the Pentagon. But they are not allowed by the presidency, ever. Not ever. Because even if this were a corrupt, greedy president, to put it in your terms, they knew they'd have risk their political careers if some one found out. It's like yellow jornalism's role in the Spanish American war. The USS Maine exploding was really an accident, we now know. Do you think that these journalists could've pulled a stunt like that today? I don't, because there are way too many sources who'd have latched on to the same story. Same idea here. If we really went ahead with this plan, someone would've found out.
And your last question to me was that a communist nation is the sole criterion for US invasion. No. However, a nation aligning itself with the USSR, that was so close to us, and therefore was a threat to our national security, was perfect grounds for an invasion. By rights, the USSR had every right to invade Turkey. However, US and NATO armies are a lot closer to Turkey that the Red Army was to the US. So it'd be suicide if they did.

It wouldn't have started WWIII, because at the time, Soviet armies could've been easily isolated.

Yeah, but at this stage in the game they had these nifty things called NUCLEAR MISSILES

Nevertheless, what I am saying is that a plan like this wasn't needed. It probably did exist, I don't deny it.

We'll, I don't see why you would deny it unless you think the Government made it up, declassified it and it found it's way into the national archives just for fun...

Some very weird things have happened in the Pentagon. But they are not allowed by the presidency, ever. Not ever.

9/11?

Because even if this were a corrupt, greedy president, to put it in your terms, they knew they'd have risk their political careers if some one found out.

Not going along with a Pentagon plan is far dangerous -- Look what happened to JFK-- and beyond that, all of the evidence is out there now, one only has to look for it...

It's like yellow jornalism's role in the Spanish American war. The USS Maine exploding was really an accident, we now know.

We also know that the bombing of Peral Harbor was staged...

Do you think that these journalists could've pulled a stunt like that today?

Considering the state of major media conglamoration? Yeah... the news is about as real as "Fear Factor"

I don't, because there are way too many sources who'd have latched on to the same story. Same idea here. If we really went ahead with this plan, someone would've found out.

Yeah, all of the evidence is hidden in plain sight.... It's just that anything outside of the major-media is considered "untrustworthy" before even being considered -- or looked into

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/report.html
(notice how the Canadian news prints "conspiracy theories" in an "X-files" font, while the article itself is all fact)

And your last question to me was that a communist nation is the sole criterion for US invasion. No.


However, a nation aligning itself with the USSR, that was so close to us, and therefore was a threat to our national security, was perfect grounds for an invasion.
How, were we at war with the USSR? No. Is a nations sovergenity disporportionate to its nearness to the US? No.

By rights, the USSR had every right to invade Turkey. However, US and NATO armies are a lot closer to Turkey that the Red Army was to the US. So it'd be suicide if they did.
So you admit that the US was acting aggressivley, even to the point of justifying war against us... Now ask yourself, "why?"
Because war time parania creates power for the Military/Industrial Complex... they went out of their way to push the Soviets into war, even to the point of premeditating the murder of US citizens...

So it'd be suicide if they did.
Mutual Assured Distruction tells us it would have been suicide for us as well...

THE PENTAGON'S PLAN TO MURDER US CITIZENS AND BLAME IT ON CUBA

A credible place to download the PDF:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

Distribute this PDF to eveyone!!!

Interesting reads. Doesn't surprise me in the least bit though, that's the scariest part.

Interesting reads. Doesn't surprise me in the least bit though, that's the scariest part.

After reading it, think about 9/11 again... who had the most to gain?

Interesting reads. Doesn't surprise me in the least bit though, that's the scariest part.

After reading it, think about 9/11 again... who had the most to gain?

9/11 put Bushs illigetimate Presidency on the map--nowadays hes more blatant with the terrorism he sponsores tho

9/11 put Bushs illigetimate Presidency on the map--nowadays hes more blatant with the terrorism he sponsores tho
It also kickstarted PNAC... who had earlier stated that America need a "new Peral Harbor" .... well, they got it -- and you bought it

Two phoney wars and two major pipelines later we can all rest asured that the US will reinstate the draft, move further into the Middle East -- instigate jihad , which will lead to World Government and the ascent of the Anti-Christ

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Yawns people who belive this stuff smoke gonga and wear tye-died tee shirts and stop ambulances with street riots.

Yawns people who belive this stuff smoke gonga and wear tye-died tee shirts and stop ambulances with street riots.

This is an official govenment file that you can find at any of a thousand reputable sources... I chose to link the on line George Washington University archives so people like you couldn't say what you just said with a straight face... now, unless you want to keep looking at 2 + 2 and calling 5 then I suggest you read what this has to say...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

Yawns people who belive this stuff smoke gonga and wear tye-died tee shirts and stop ambulances with street riots.
This is why we should ban the illiterate from the internet...

*Yawn*



What, more Liberal BS? I'm going back to sleep.


*Yawn*

This is the real reason Kennedy was assassinated... at first, Kennedy was a servent of the machine, but upon seeing this report he began to see the light: he starting to pull the US out of Vietnam and started to dismantle the CIA...

If Kennedy hated "the machine" so much then why did he create the Modern Special Forces and send them to Vietnam?

We did much worse stuff than this during the cold war, like try the Gulf of Tonkin Reslution but I really fail to see you're point. Clearly, you don't like the current United States Adminstration or else the topic would have been something like, "Look at the bad thing America did in the Cold War." So are you bascially saying that an action carried out in the past makes a future goverment bad? With that logic, you should be outisde the Wheilmetasse in Berlin, throwing eggs.

But wait a second, you already said the bombing of Pearl Harbor was staged. Thank you and Goodnight.

What, more Liberal BS? I'm going back to sleep.


so, you're idea of a liberal bias is an accredited university's web archive?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

What, more Liberal BS? I'm going back to sleep.


so, you're idea of a liberal bias is an accredited university's web archive?

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/

No, its the deliberate misdirection of the title; It should read PLANNED not PLANS.

This is the real reason Kennedy was assassinated... at first, Kennedy was a servent of the machine, but upon seeing this report he began to see the light: he starting to pull the US out of Vietnam and started to dismantle the CIA. ..

If Kennedy hated "the machine" so much then why did he create the Modern Special Forces and send them to Vietnam? If you would kindly read my post before responding...


We did much worse stuff than this during the cold war, like try the Gulf of Tonkin Reslution but I really fail to see you're point.
If you think planning to kill innocent US citizens by hi-jacking and shooting down a comercial jet isn't all that bad -- well, it just says alot about you

Clearly, you don't like the current United States Adminstration or else the topic would have been something like, "Look at the bad thing America did in the Cold War." So are you bascially saying that an action carried out in the past makes a future goverment bad? Well, when you stop to consider that the Bush administration is almost identical to the Reagon administration -- it isn't that much of a leap...

But wait a second, you already said the bombing of Pearl Harbor was staged.
so does historic fact: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p431_Lutton.html

No, its the deliberate misdirection of the title; It should read PLANNED not PLANS.
... {sigh} are you're telling me that in the face of knowing how little value the government has for your life, all you can do is argue semantics?

Yawns people who belive this stuff smoke gonga and wear tye-died tee shirts and stop ambulances with street riots.

America, They're going to tell you that you're at war with each other -- they're going to tell you that there is a war on drugs -- they're going to tell you that you can't smoke marijuana -- they're going to tell you can't take LSD -- and then, they're going to load you up on prozac and ritlin! ladies and gentlement, we will no longer give in to the police-state mentality!
Marilyn Manson

9/11 put Bushs illigetimate Presidency on the map--nowadays hes more blatant with the terrorism he sponsores tho
It also kickstarted PNAC... who had earlier stated that America need a "new Peral Harbor" .... well, they got it -- and you bought it

Two phoney wars and two major pipelines later we can all rest asured that the US will reinstate the draft, move further into the Middle East -- instigate jihad , which will lead to World Government and the ascent of the Anti-Christ

this is what Ive been saying all along too--PEOPLE WAKE UP

*Yawn*



What, more Liberal BS? I'm going back to sleep.


*Yawn*

your in danger of losing your point, Arrow

well, this hardly comes as a surprise... anybody remembers the Maine? The government did exactly the same thing to put the public opinion against spain. they actually were succesful in that one... but seems like nobody thinks about it anymore.

well, this hardly comes as a surprise... anybody remembers the Maine? The government did exactly the same thing to put the public opinion against spain. they actually were succesful in that one... but seems like nobody thinks about it anymore.

They even had a hand in WTC 93 -- these sick bastards have to be stopped!

http://100777.com/node/view/97

*Yawn*


If you think staying informed is too much of a burden, then you're what's wrong with America!

I read the .pdf

Take note that it's over 40 years old. You think the police state is only just coming, over there?

I read the .pdf
good... now make sure you tell others about it

Take note that it's over 40 years old.
yeah, and I doubt it's an isolated incident...


You think the police state is only just coming, over there?
I grew up in the Clinton years... the police state is all my generation knows...

It is a political phenomenon that wears no tag. "Liberal" and "Conservative" alike are responsible, especially so today.

Look at our budget over the past 3 years with a Republican in office.....and republicans dominating Congress. We are growing our budget faster now than Clinton did, and that says a lot.

It is a topic worthy of consideration for all freedom-loving people. Government inherantly infringes on our God-given rights as humans. The larger the government, the deeper the impact on liberty. That is why I fear and pray for everyone else in the world. Many countries are more decayed than America is.

Our government is not looking out for us. That is the simple truth. The good news is that we need not slide another inch into decay and slavery to the state.

Oppose all international socialist entanglements (NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, and yes....the UN) Urge your Representatives and Senators to oppose our continued involvement in these plans and organizations.

Oppose the new Bush amnesty grants. We are being infiltrated by terrorists as it is. Approximately 66% of the 9/11 hijackers were here for YEARS.....ILLEGALLY. The ones here "legally" did not fill out all of the required paperwork.....omitting addresses, reasons for entering the country, etc. Our immigration laws are a joke, and are constantly ignored. Every bill that helps illegals siphons money from the people who earned it, most likely a middle-class family. We have a LEGAL process for immigration and it should be followed, not cast aside in the name of "compassion". Your parents and grandparents and greatgrandparents managed to survive here without extensive government programs.

Be skeptical. Our gov't does not tell the truth. The news media is a puppet. Find a reliable source of information and the truth will become very evident.

If anyone would like to have a civil discussion about my opinion, I would be honored to share it in more depth, and in private. I've been preachy and controversial enough already. Contact me privately if you'd like to hear some.

A personal note to Texastambul....your message has been heard. Do not overdo it. You make yourself easier to dismiss when you resort to spamming. Keep the faith. Spread the message, but spread it intelligently.

It is a political phenomenon that wears no tag. "Liberal" and "Conservative" alike are responsible, especially so today. Actually, the real conservatives are libertarians... the Republicans are the liberals, and the Democrats are pro-capitalist moderate-centrist

Look at our budget over the past 3 years with a Republican in office.....and republicans dominating Congress. We are growing our budget faster now than Clinton did, and that says a lot. yes... that carpetbagger in the office calls himself a conservative, but he's really just another NWO-Soviet like Clinton and his daddy...

It is a topic worthy of consideration for all freedom-loving people. Government inherantly infringes on our God-given rights as humans. The larger the government, the deeper the impact on liberty. That is why I fear and pray for everyone else in the world. Many countries are more decayed than America is. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!

Our government is not looking out for us. That is the simple truth. The good news is that we need not slide another inch into decay and slavery to the state. and never, NEVER.. (under any circumstances) give up your gusn... hell, don't you ever register your guns!

Oppose all international socialist entanglements (NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, and yes....the UN) Urge your Representatives and Senators to oppose our continued involvement in these plans and organizations. Yes! Pull us out of these organizations that feed the international bank and the New World Order...

Every bill that helps illegals siphons money from the people who earned it, most likely a middle-class family. We have a LEGAL process for immigration and it should be followed, not cast aside in the name of "compassion". Your parents and grandparents and greatgrandparents managed to survive here without extensive government programs. Right now Texas is being flooded with illegal aliens... hell, we can't employ our own citizens and now this!? They are illegally jumping the boarders, spreading violence and drugs through-out the south and Bush's Homland Security Dept. is more worried about spying on middle-class citizens! IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!

Be skeptical. Our gov't does not tell the truth. The news media is a puppet. Find a reliable source of information and the truth will become very evident. Media consolidation the how the big corporations manufacture public opoinion: overcome their "groupthink" mentality!

If anyone would like to have a civil discussion about my opinion, I would be honored to share it in more depth, and in private. I've been preachy and controversial enough already. Contact me privately if you'd like to hear some. Speak it out on the forum... that's your freedom, and as such it's also your duty...

A personal note to Texastambul....your message has been heard. Do not overdo it. You make yourself easier to dismiss when you resort to spamming. Keep the faith. Spread the message, but spread it intelligently. Hell, I'm the one that started this thread... you do your part and I'll do mine and I think we'll get along alot better...

Why is this surprising?

If the goverment is willing to fire on its own people(Kent State), then they could do that as well.....

The Kent State massacre was no accident; it was designed. The Nat'l Guard has extensive training in the rules of engagement, all of which were blatantly ignored. The commanders (all well trained in riot control) moved their men into a severly compromised position: they were literally backed-up against a wall. This was no accident, the grunts were intentially manipulated by their superiors to feel threatend by the violent protesters; the idea that unorganized students could out-flank a highly trained military out-fit is ludicrous.

The National Guard a highly trained outfit..ROFLMFAO....oh..my thanks..I needed a laugh....I was a Marine Infantryman who did two tours in Vietnam...most of those Guard units back then could barely tell me how to break down their rifles let alone be part of a highly trained outfit.

The guys got backed into a corner (I've seen several angles of footage), they got scared...and reacted badly..end of story..I saw well-trained Marines in Nam act on less provocation.

The National Guard a highly trained outfit..ROFLMFAO....oh..my thanks..I needed a laugh....I was a Marine Infantryman who did two tours in Vietnam...most of those Guard units back then could barely tell me how to break down their rifles let alone be part of a highly trained outfit.
First of all, hats off to you sir.. my father sever three-tours in the 'Nam, so I understand your pov...

In all fairness, I said the grunts were trained in the rules of engagement (one month a year in the summer), and that their officers were highly trained... which is true...

The guys got backed into a corner (I've seen several angles of footage), they got scared...and reacted badly..end of story Yes, but their is a real probablitiy that they were ordered into a corner by their superiors...

..I saw well-trained Marines in Nam act on less provocation. the key here is that that happened in 'Nam... this is the US...

U.S. Government the real terrorists? HA Ive herd ghost stories more balievable than this.
Find some in the National Archives and we'll talk about ghost stories...

If the goverment is willing to fire on its own people(Kent State), then they could do that as well.....

The government papers spell out their plan to do it... Thank goodness for the FOIA!