NationStates Jolt Archive

You guys might have seen this before, but I just read the entire article and I have a really creepy feeling in my bones. I have never been a fan of President Bush nor do I happily believe anything the US government wants me to believe without checking out the facts as much as possible before I form my opinions.
I am from NYC. I have lived here my entire life and I love this city. When the WTC went down I was horrified; I saw the whole thing from my roof and I know many people who narrowly missed losing their lives as well as those who did lose their lives. I saw not only an attack onthe USA but on my home, my place of residence (my city). I always believed the government was in on it somehow (they could have done more to try and stop the attacks, the CIA [Bush Jr.'s daddy's HQ does not know the meaning of respecting privacy, in other words, they must have known something] Bush Jr.' response time to the attacks seemed a little off to me..., etc...).
Anyhoo, this article points out how Bush knew about the attacks before they happened and my skin is crawling.
If Bush is re-elected, I'm leaving the country.

What are your thoughts on this article?

http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/liar.htm

I saw that in a docomentry a while ago. But I bet that theres enough Americans to pull cloth over their eyes and still vote for him.

I expect no morality from the government.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pìg!ome, g||xòfùme.-I am a human, not a tool.
No Mods, No Masters!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

I expect no morality from the government.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pìg!ome, g||xòfùme.-I am a human, not a tool.
No Mods, No Masters!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

not any government?? Call yourself an anarchist?? :)

Good point, Vonners.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pìg!ome, g||xòfùme.-I am a human, not a tool.
No Mods, No Masters!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

Good point, Vonners.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pìg!ome, g||xòfùme.-I am a human, not a tool.
No Mods, No Masters!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

I hear yah :)

However I am not a believer in the idea that Bush somehow had a hand directly. There is enough circumstantial evidence to make one think twice about the current incumant in the Whitehouse.

The New American Centuary people though....they are dangerous...and at the end of the day the US is follwing that course towards a global hegemony.

Some might call it Imperialism and I have used that word but I think its not quite correct. A better term might Machiavellian Capitalism.

Bush just gets worse everyday.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pìg!ome, g||xòfùme.-I am a human, not a tool.
No Mods, No Masters!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

I think people are looking for someone to blame Sept. 11th on here in our own country. They're looking for one person, and I don't think one person (like Pres. Bush) can be blamed, no matter how much I dislike him as President.

Was there ever a doubt in your mind even before you read the article?!

:shock:

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Although I think Bush has been, and will continue to be, a disaster for the US, I believe the cock-up theory rather than conspiracy. This was a man already out of his depth, manipulated by powerful economic forces and beginning to become unpopular with the electorate. I don't think we'll ever know fully what some people did or didn't know in advance. What I do know is that when reviewing the tape of Bush being told 'we're under attack', I see a man frozen with (possibly) fear and certainly indecision. I doubt that he then had much involvement in decision making for quite a while afterward, although he may believe otherwise. He was almost 'imprisoned' in a cocoon of security and the highest need was seen as protecting him. One thing has always puzzled me, the speed with which Blair reacted. There has long been an affinity and friendship between Great Britain and the United States, so Britains swift response with support was almost taken for granted. But bear in mind that Britain has one of the best intelligence services in the world. Remember that the US and GB share much of their covert knowledge. I am of the opinion that Bush and Blair and a few others 'in the loop' know a lot more than they're saying. The fight against terror and Quaida was on-going long before 9/11, there had to be tons of shared intelligence. Blair locked GB 'shoulder to shoulder' with Bush despite the opinions of his advisors, even braving possible political suicide to help the Americans. To me, this indicates a huge amount of inside knowledge that is being denied us, probably seen by the politicians as 'for our own good'. However, as far as the dreadful day of 9/11 itself, cock-up rules, I believe.

What it might have been was that Bush heard before hand that the first plane hit the WTC, but had no idea what it was. Most people assumed that it was a pilot with a heart attack that slammed into the WTC. The principal may have her memory being a little screwed up. Anyhow, by the time the second plane hit, it was really time for the president to worry.

If Bush is re-elected, I'm leaving the country.



Don't let the door hit ya...

I think Bush is a pawn of anti-democratic forces, and makes terrible decisions.

I do however remember how angry and determined he seemed after 9/11; I don't think he can act that well. His mood was not that of cya or his usual fake smile; it was sincere. That doesn't seem like a conspirator.

If Bush is re-elected, I'm leaving the country.



Don't let the door hit ya...

Dont leave the country, stay here and fight the Evil Resident

I hate him.

I hate him.

I hate the entire Bush family--theyre pure scum and a scourge to our way of life

While I am no fan of our current inglorious leader, I do respect the office he holds. To spin things around a bit, I respect my government, I don't trust the GOP, and I fear the electorate.

While I am no fan of our current inglorious leader, I do respect the office he holds. To spin things around a bit, I respect my government, I don't trust the GOP, and I fear the electorate.

the office of the Presidency is utterly defiled with the scum who hijacked our Democracy sitting there like some kind of mockery

While I am no fan of our current inglorious leader, I do respect the office he holds. To spin things around a bit, I respect my government, I don't trust the GOP, and I fear the electorate.

the office of the Presidency is utterly defiled with the scum who hijacked our Democracy sitting there like some kind of mockery

Geez, TRA...take it easy on your boy Klinton! :D

While I am no fan of our current inglorious leader, I do respect the office he holds. To spin things around a bit, I respect my government, I don't trust the GOP, and I fear the electorate.

the office of the Presidency is utterly defiled with the scum who hijacked our Democracy sitting there like some kind of mockery

Geez, TRA...take it easy on your boy Klinton! :D

Clinton was a big fat sellout too

Was there ever a doubt in your mind even before you read the article?!

:shock:
No, I had no doubts. But this...this is hard proof. Now maybe people will stop thinking I'm a lunatic every time I go on a rant about how the US gov't is a bunch of liars.

While I am no fan of our current inglorious leader, I do respect the office he holds. To spin things around a bit, I respect my government, I don't trust the GOP, and I fear the electorate.

the office of the Presidency is utterly defiled with the scum who hijacked our Democracy sitting there like some kind of mockery

Geez, TRA...take it easy on your boy Klinton! :D

Clinton was a big fat sellout too
Gosh, can't we put Clinton to rest?!!! He's not the president anymore nor will he ever be again. Let us look to the future and try to make a difference (ie DO NOT VOTE BUSH IN 2004).

http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Although I think Bush has been, and will continue to be, a disaster for the US, I believe the cock-up theory rather than conspiracy. This was a man already out of his depth, manipulated by powerful economic forces and beginning to become unpopular with the electorate. I don't think we'll ever know fully what some people did or didn't know in advance. What I do know is that when reviewing the tape of Bush being told 'we're under attack', I see a man frozen with (possibly) fear and certainly indecision. I doubt that he then had much involvement in decision making for quite a while afterward, although he may believe otherwise. He was almost 'imprisoned' in a cocoon of security and the highest need was seen as protecting him. One thing has always puzzled me, the speed with which Blair reacted. There has long been an affinity and friendship between Great Britain and the United States, so Britains swift response with support was almost taken for granted. But bear in mind that Britain has one of the best intelligence services in the world. Remember that the US and GB share much of their covert knowledge. I am of the opinion that Bush and Blair and a few others 'in the loop' know a lot more than they're saying. The fight against terror and Quaida was on-going long before 9/11, there had to be tons of shared intelligence. Blair locked GB 'shoulder to shoulder' with Bush despite the opinions of his advisors, even braving possible political suicide to help the Americans. To me, this indicates a huge amount of inside knowledge that is being denied us, probably seen by the politicians as 'for our own good'. However, as far as the dreadful day of 9/11 itself, cock-up rules, I believe.
About your comment about politicians knowing before hand. Of course they did. The problem was that hundreds of different threats like this were recieved every year. The problem was sifting through them, finding if they are credible, and acting on them. Most never happened, so I see why the security bubble we lived in formed.
And let's not forget, we didn't know the enemy. After the Cold War, human intelligence started declining, in favor of electronic eavesdropping and sattelite immagery. What we saw were kooks with AK-47s in grass huts. No real threat. The thing was, as we are learning, is that al-Qaeda had a more personal way of doing business, not through phones or the internet or such. Spies could've known, but their were no Western spies in these terror organizations at the time.
You know, actually, there's an interesting little developement that should shake things a bit in the entire intelligence community, from the LA Times. There is some terrorist's trial going on in Germany. A judge accepted testimony from an ex-Irani spy, who worked with al-Qaeda. I don't know if they are sworn to tell the truth their, but I'll assume that he was.
He worked as a double agent for the CIA. He knew al-Qaeda had this plan long before it happened. He warned his handlers in Baku, but obviously, no one believed him. Of course, the CIA denies this. But hey, what else should we expect? I mean, they aren't paid to blow their cover like this. He had some other interesting remarks, like that al-Qaeda and Hizb'Allah had an alliance.
Anyhow, both John Walker Lindh and Khalid Sheik Muhamed admit that more attacks would follow the four planes. They were stopped because the air was cleared as soon as the fourth one was hijacked. I think it is silly, for this reason, to say that the intelligence wasn't acted on at all. Perhaps whoever knew about 9/11 realised this was the attack, and had the air cleared. So something was done, albiet a little late.

[There is some terrorist's trial going on in Germany. A judge accepted testimony from an ex-Irani spy, who worked with al-Qaeda. I don't know if they are sworn to tell the truth their, but I'll assume that he was.
He worked as a double agent for the CIA. He knew al-Qaeda had this plan long before it happened. He warned his handlers in Baku, but obviously, no one believed him. Of course, the CIA denies this. But hey, what else should we expect? I mean, they aren't paid to blow their cover like this. He had some other interesting remarks, like that al-Qaeda and Hizb'Allah had an alliance.
Anyhow, both John Walker Lindh and Khalid Sheik Muhamed admit that more attacks would follow the four planes. They were stopped because the air was cleared as soon as the fourth one was hijacked. I think it is silly, for this reason, to say that the intelligence wasn't acted on at all. Perhaps whoever knew about 9/11 realised this was the attack, and had the air cleared. So something was done, albiet a little late.
http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~zbzw/glob/ani28t.gif

Yes, I think that's mostly corect. Cock-up, not conspiricy. That TwinTowers attack could have been anywhere, London, Chicago, Edinburgh, Paris, Toronto, Berlin and the authorities would have been equally unprepared. We all have our opinions about what's happened since in the 'war on terror' but let's allow the blame for 9/11 to rest on the shoulders of the filth that were prepared to butcher thousands of innocents, Quaida and Bin-Laden.

I wish more people would look beyond the tax cuts and look at the patriot act, his lies, Iraq, and the enviroment. I Have seen a 160 degree diff. between last summer and this winter, it was a heat index of 110, and a wind chill of -40. Thats a climate change.

There is no point defense against attacks like 9/11. The only defense is not pissing people off to the point they decide they have to resort to such tactics. There is the lone psychotic argument, but this level of attack requires long range planning that psycotics aren't able to carry out. It's sociopaths that do this sort of thing, but it is a valid action within their localized context. Our government should be striving to keep people from entering that context; however, the Abrams and Bradley tactics we are using are pushing them towards embracing that context.