NationStates Jolt Archive

I think all forms of hunting should be banned. There are better ways of controlling vermin than by dressing up in stupid clothes and chasing them on horses. To my mind, anyone who enjoys the chasing and killing of animals is twisted and this includes the British royal family!! Fox hunting is just a barbaric, cruel outdated horrible hobby

Have you tried it?

Just wondering.

More importantly, it really isn't fair. two dozen armed guys on horseback with dogs vs. a fox. I much prefer fair fights. In bullriding(and bullfights), I routinely root for the bull. ANd sometimes, the bull wins! :twisted:

What if the animal is a pest (such as the possum in this country) and destroys native trees and very endangered wildlife? In this country possum hunting is actually encouraged for these reasons.



oddly enough, it's a protected animal in australia.

More importantly, it really isn't fair. two dozen armed guys on horseback with dogs vs. a fox. I much prefer fair fights. In bullriding(and bullfights), I routinely root for the bull. ANd sometimes, the bull wins! :twisted:
I concur. After all, don't tools give us a bit too much of an advantage? Why don't we simply ban it and hunt other hunters? There's real challenge in that!

Yeh, fox hunting is not really a sport - after all, what is the challenge, especially if the dogs do the thing?

Though not all hunting should be banned - can you Scotralia tell me what are these "better ways of controlling vermin" than hunting?

I think the foxes should be given orbital lasers, just to make it fair.
Oh and Tactical Dreadnaught Armour.

Nope.

No, foxhunting should be encouraged. Same for rabbits. Moreso for rabbits.

I see your point about shooting vermin.... but there is a difference between shooting something and chasing it with dogs....then when it is too scared and tired to go any further you let your pack of dogs rip it to shreds while you sit on your horse and say Jolly good show!!!! At least most of the time when an animal is shot it dies quickly....

Actually, whilst I disapprove generally of hunting (I'm not against drag hunting) I havent been able to come up with a better way of killing the foxes yet. It;s quicker for a fox to die by being ripped in half by a pack of dogs, than to be shot in the rear quarters and die a slow and agonising death like that. The only time shooting is a faster death is when the bullet hits the head. Even a chest shot is not quicker than being ripped apart by dogs.

I hunted once as a child, having been brought up around horses. My Aunt hunts on a regular basis, and i've seen a lot of hunts. I've also seen animal scaught in snares and animals shot. I only disapprove of hunting because of the danger to the horses and the fear that the fox goes through. However, there is no way to minise the fear the fox goes through, and these days routes are planned with minimal danger to the horses.

I dont think there is any point in banning hunting. There are better things to be spending you time protesting against. Like poaching and snares.

Actually, whilst I disapprove generally of hunting (I'm not against drag hunting) I havent been able to come up with a better way of killing the foxes yet. It;s quicker for a fox to die by being ripped in half by a pack of dogs, than to be shot in the rear quarters and die a slow and agonising death like that. The only time shooting is a faster death is when the bullet hits the head. Even a chest shot is not quicker than being ripped apart by dogs.

I hunted once as a child, having been brought up around horses. My Aunt hunts on a regular basis, and i've seen a lot of hunts. I've also seen animal scaught in snares and animals shot. I only disapprove of hunting because of the danger to the horses and the fear that the fox goes through. However, there is no way to minise the fear the fox goes through, and these days routes are planned with minimal danger to the horses.

I dont think there is any point in banning hunting. There are better things to be spending you time protesting against. Like poaching and snares.

Well I agree with you, that more people should be concerned about the use of snares..... and i concede that if all forms of hunting were banned the use of snares would increase. Like you i agree that foxes, rabbits etc are becoming more of a problem and need to be controlled... I have never hunted as you can probably tell...so my opinions are based on purely personal opinion.... I just dont like the thought of getting enjoyment out of causing the suffering of any living animal....

*nods*

Although mostly hunting is generally about the thrill of the chace (hence why i'm not against drag hunting at all) rather than deriving enjoyment from watching the animal be detroyed.

Did I spell chace right? It looks totally wrong! Sorry!

Has anyone else read "The Most Dangerous Game"? now that's hunting!

chase.

Ah, thanks... You know i typed it 4 or 5 times and gave up! Mental blank... *kicks brain*

I agree with you about drag hunting.... If i owned land and people wanted to drag hunt through it i would actively encourage it... I am sure that some people who hunt now... would prefer drag hunting to fox hunting after a while...especially if the trails were well planned

I'm sure they do. Probably the dogs prefer it too, cos they get something a lot nicer than a tiny peice of fox at the end of it!

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a well planned drag hunting route.

More importantly, it really isn't fair. two dozen armed guys on horseback with dogs vs. a fox. I much prefer fair fights. In bullriding(and bullfights), I routinely root for the bull. ANd sometimes, the bull wins! :twisted:
I concur. After all, don't tools give us a bit too much of an advantage? Why don't we simply ban it and hunt other hunters? There's real challenge in that!
Maybe reintroduce wolves or bears into Britain and insist that hunters don't use any weapons? :D

lol... *bets on the wolves and has great fun watching*

That's a tad unfair on the horses and dogs... maybe they can go drag hunting whilst the men and women fight the bears and wolves.

No, foxhunting should be encouraged. Same for rabbits. Moreso for rabbits.
If you are imagining foxhunting would be good for getting rid of foxes, it doesn't work like that. In order for there to be more foxhunts the hunting people need foxes to continue to be bred... and they do and would. Regular hunting is not the same as one-off culling.

lol... *bets on the wolves and has great fun watching*

That's a tad unfair on the horses and dogs... maybe they can go drag hunting whilst the men and women fight the bears and wolves.
Oh yes I wasn't imagining horses being involved. Or dogs. Dogs can be hurt when used for hunting, or badger-baiting etc. (tho more the badger).

I've trained as a gamekeeper and live in an agricultural area while I dont agree with fox hunting with hounds these things must be kept in check ,also its a well known fact around here that the local hunt imports foxes and still cant catch them.Shooting with the right type of rifle is by far the most efficient and humane way of dispatching a fox it doesnt matter where you hit it hydro-static shock will kill it.On a further note about the importing of foxes certain London councils who have urban fox problems have been live trapping foxes driving upto Lincolnshire and dumping them,the poor fox who up till then has fed on nothing that didnt come out of a dustbin or was a cat either starves or has been found or frequenting landfill sites the local keeper shot 53 foxes all urbans in the area adjacent to a landfill.Further more at th height of the rabbit breeding season there are approx 300million rabbits in the uk in that time they will cause over 100million pounds worth of crop damage and then there are the pigeons all told if we dont control these animals there will be nothing for the vegitarians to eat.

ah ain't fur killin nothin you don't intend to eat. period.

and a bunch of stuck up idiots on horses making assess of themselves, whether they succeed in killing anything other then themselves or not doesn't really seem like anything this world couldn't get along just fine without.

=^^=
.../\...

No, foxhunting should be encouraged. Same for rabbits. Moreso for rabbits.
If you are imagining foxhunting would be good for getting rid of foxes, it doesn't work like that. In order for there to be more foxhunts the hunting people need foxes to continue to be bred... and they do and would. Regular hunting is not the same as one-off culling.

No, I'm saying that it should be allowed alongside mass culling. What I'm saying is basically, the more the merrier.

It;s quicker for a fox to die by being ripped in half by a pack of dogs, than to be shot in the rear quarters and die a slow and agonising death like that. The only time shooting is a faster death is when the bullet hits the head. Even a chest shot is not quicker than being ripped apart by dogs.

but there is proof that the fear from being chased makes the blood vessels surrounding the foxes brain and over it's body start bursting, and supposing it wasn't caught, it would die anyway from haemorrhage. So it would have a slow and painful death. And it's shocking that people make it into a game. The pack of dogs in the hunt in our valley has around 30 dogs. And that is just ridiculous.

My family used to keep hens, and once in a while a fox would pick one off. But for the most part, it was walkers dogs and badgers. People claim that they attack lambs. Lambs are fiercely protected by their mothers. And foxes really are quite tiny. They couldn' t take a sheep out.

Does anyone from Briton remember that advert that showed a bunch of fox hunters be chased by pack dogs whilst the fox sat in front of a blazing fireplace in a large house? I think it was an advert for a beer.

This does give me an idea though. I know the pro-fox hunting lobby puts it's case forward as being that jobs will be lost and dogs being put down, and I'm also aware of the real need to ban fox hunting. So here's the idea-
retire the dogs that are trained to kill during the hunt (as far as I can see there is no plausability in putting them down) and bring in new ones. Have them trained just to track, then introduce humans as prey. Obviously, as trained pooches, there wont be any unwanted maiming. Have betting on it, the funds of this will help sustain the health and well being of both dogs and horse. Hunters should pay a yearly fee for joining such hunts where a small percentage will go towards prizes for prey who have successfuly escaped. A small percentage goes to an anual End Of Year Ball. The rest goes into good causes such as those help and protect children and animals.

Bad idea? Who knows. I guess some of you will say "It will never work" and some will say "great".

It's a fantastic idea, although i highyl doubt anyone would actually put it into practise.

What about the increasing numbers of foxes? How do they cull them? We've ruled out shooting and snares.... what's left? poison?

I truly believe that fox hunting should be banned. I think that it is a cruel and unnecessary sport, that kills for the fun of it and not for continuation of life. Fox hunting is evil and needs to be stopped.

I think all forms of hunting should be banned. There are better ways of controlling vermin than by dressing up in stupid clothes and chasing them on horses. To my mind, anyone who enjoys the chasing and killing of animals is twisted and this includes the British royal family!! Fox hunting is just a barbaric, cruel outdated horrible hobbyWell shooting the bloody things should not be encouraged as there are too many guns already. Hunting with dogs is in keeping with the natural order, how else can you stop these vermin from getting out of control numbers wise? It also helps to conserve the few remaining tracts of open countryside in Britain so should be encouraged.

Okay, how to cut down the fox population. One method could be sterilisation, of say, 40 percent of the fox population (that figure is an example I pulled out the top of my head). That leaves an exploding rabbit population. I do know that one way to deal with this is gas rabbit rabbit barrows (got to make sure only the one exit is exposed). That in itself sounds cruel, but if farmers do insist on killing them then it's less inhumane than having them snared or having them blasted by a bad shot.

A) Foxes do it to chickens. B) There aren't more humane ways. Ripping a fox to bits is messy, but leaving it full of shot in its side for a lingering, pus-filled death is not great, although the animal rights protesters don't get to see it so that's alright. Same with poison, traps,e tc. It's really a class thing, as the proposer shows with Royal Family references, and foxes are fluffy like dogs to anyone who has never been close to one.

There are more important people that you can help such as starving millions in Africa, like trying to scrap the CAP in the EU. But then, they're not fluffy, are they. They're just skinny.

Of course foxhunting should be banned. Such activities merely reinforce the fact that human beings can be cruel and sadistic. Therefore governments should ban it - to protect people from their own worst desires. Bullfighting is just as bad - it sickens me and makes me feel ashamed to be human.

If farmers looked after their chickens better the foxes wouldn't get them. The farm where I worked on used to lock them up in a foxproof hutch, only when they forgot to lock them up did a fox ever kill any. Plus the fact that they're in those small enclosures means they're easy prey and can't escape a fox.

If I ruled britain, people who ride in hunts would be executed by way of leaving them tied up in a pit with a rabid animal :twisted:

Fox hunting should be legal my relatives love it, and i was forced to go on the "Countryside Alliance" march, but i feel strongly that pests should be killed, i once saw pictures of dogs (puppies) that had been killed, (i won't tell you how because it is disgusting) by foxes, and they kill a lot of business for farmers, like ducks and chickens

A) Foxes do it to chickens. B) There aren't more humane ways. Ripping a fox to bits is messy, but leaving it full of shot in its side for a lingering, pus-filled death is not great, although the animal rights protesters don't get to see it so that's alright. Same with poison, traps,e tc. It's really a class thing, as the proposer shows with Royal Family references, and foxes are fluffy like dogs to anyone who has never been close to one.

There are more important people that you can help such as starving millions in Africa, like trying to scrap the CAP in the EU. But then, they're not fluffy, are they. They're just skinny.

Hear Hear!
Perfectly right, there are too many left-wingers on here whingeing about animal rights, animal rights are important which is why i'd vote in-favour of a quick dear than a slow one. It's quite simple really.
There are more pressing issues to deal with than finding other, and most likely more cruel, way of killing foxes. How many of all you 'anti' folk have actually seen one?
We used to have a dog-bed for the dog in the conservatory but one morning we came downstairs and there was a fox lying in it, the thing had patchy fur with the mange and it's skin was peeling and in had masses of fleas. Hardly the cutsey little fox that people like to invisage is it?
They are classed as vermin, the only reason they are not shot like rats is that (quite a few) little children are brought-up with foxes in story books and pictures of glossy, fluffy and friendly foxes.
We had to burn the dog-bed and de-flea our dog as i had cought them from the bed afterwards.
They are vermin, if you believe anything else then you are deluding yourself or allowing yourself to be deluded.

Regards,
The New Empire

..and yes, i have signed the thingy of civil disobedience.

i wouldn't mind fox hunting if people were killing them for a reason, but the fact that its just for their own pleasure, which makes it disgusting, how would you all like it if you were in their situation and really what the hell is the point, its in the past, things change n move on and fox hunting should be one of them

It is fun, yes, it also serves a purpose. Why not complain about poachers in Africa? That is an actual issue. That serves no purpose. That causes more harm.

Anyone else seen that this foxhunting non-issue gets more media attention that poaching in Africa?

Funny that..

Regards,

The New Empire

No, foxhunting should be encouraged. Same for rabbits. Moreso for rabbits.
If you are imagining foxhunting would be good for getting rid of foxes, it doesn't work like that. In order for there to be more foxhunts the hunting people need foxes to continue to be bred... and they do and would. Regular hunting is not the same as one-off culling.
No, I'm saying that it should be allowed alongside mass culling. What I'm saying is basically, the more the merrier.
If you encourage foxhunting and they import foxes in the way Remmen describes it will make the problem 'worse'.

It is fun, yes, it also serves a purpose. Why not complain about poachers in Africa? That is an actual issue. That serves no purpose. That causes more harm.

Anyone else seen that this foxhunting non-issue gets more media attention that poaching in Africa?

Funny that..

Regards,

The New Empire
Isn't it because it's happening 'here' rather than 'there'?

"If you encourage foxhunting and they import foxes in the way Remmen describes it will make the problem 'worse'."

No respectable hunt would import foxes and those that do should be shut-down. Simple.
Lay off the majority though who do not import them or breed them.

In addittion to my earlier point about the difference between fluffy foxes people have in their minds and actual foxes note this link.

http://www.ewda.org/OIE/oie.htm


"Isn't it because it's happening 'here' rather than 'there'?"

foxhunting is HERE, poaching is THERE. Yes, correct. My point was that poaching is a very pressing issue and we are faced with the extinction of many interesting animals. Here we are making a big fuss about stopping people killing vermin.
Here and there should not matter because the 'here; issue is not an issue and the 'there' issue is very important.

Regards,

The New Empire

I can't see a problem with foxhunting. Our ancient ancestors did it and there are still foxes around. People worry to much nowadays. Just relax, get your dogs, saddle your horse and try fox hunting it's great fun. 8)

I can't see a problem with foxhunting. Our ancient ancestors did it and there are still foxes around. People worry to much nowadays. Just relax, get your dogs, saddle your horse and try fox hunting it's great fun. 8)

Our ancient ancestors may have done it but they did it and ate what they killed. Today, people just do it for fun which is why it is wrong.

Actually fox has never been eaten because it's not very hygenic and is often diseased.
Of course it's fun but it also serves a purpose and serves it well so stop complaining, cars kill more foxes than the hunt anyway. Why not shuttup, join the green-party and lobby for a ban on cars.

Regards,

The New Empire

Actually fox has never been eaten because it's not very hygenic and is often diseased.
Of course it's fun but it also serves a purpose and serves it well so stop complaining, cars kill more foxes than the hunt anyway. Why not shuttup, join the green-party and lobby for a ban on cars.

I'm sure at some point in history fox was a regular meal. :wink:

Only if you were..

a) Starving

and

b) Peasantry

No-one suffers famine in the UK any more and the peasantry have been replaced by the yobbery who graze freely upon McDonalds in-between muggings and setting-fire to the homeless.

Regards,

The New Empire

Fox hunting is just a barbaric, cruel outdated horrible hobby
What makes it outdated?

No-one suffers famine in the UK any more and the peasantry have been replaced by the yobbery who graze freely upon McDonalds in-between muggings and setting-fire to the homeless.

That is extremely snobbish and very stereotypical. I don't like it.

It is also a stereotype that foxhunting is only for the ruling classes. They are both generalisations. Generalisation is rooted in fact.

How many city-thugs go foxhunting? (none)

How many Dukes, Earls and Lords of the Realm eat constantly at McDonalds or are involved in street-crime like muggings? (none)

I have no problem with that state of affairs.

Regards,

The New Empire

No, foxhunting should be encouraged. Same for rabbits. Moreso for rabbits.
If you are imagining foxhunting would be good for getting rid of foxes, it doesn't work like that. In order for there to be more foxhunts the hunting people need foxes to continue to be bred... and they do and would. Regular hunting is not the same as one-off culling.
No, I'm saying that it should be allowed alongside mass culling. What I'm saying is basically, the more the merrier.
If you encourage foxhunting and they import foxes in the way Remmen describes it will make the problem 'worse'.

I suppose that's true.

I believe, however, that people should be encouraged to help annihilate noxious pests. Not to mention that it is very very illegal to import them.

No Way!

Farmers need to protect their sheep or whatever from foxes. Foxes are pests more than anything else. The best way to catch them is to go out with dogs, who can sniff the foxes out.

In CharlotteMaria, we have some of the best farm yields due to the fact that there are hardly any foxes. This is thanks to monthly village fox hunts.

Thank You

Queen Charlotte III

Define 'vermin'.

In some hunts, they do not kill the fox, so presumably it gets smarter every time, thus more challenging. I think this is ok. otherwise, its unacceptable, rather like children shooting cats, dogs or babies with BB guns.

ver·min ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrmn)
n. pl. vermin
Various small animals or insects, such as rats or cockroaches, that are destructive, annoying, or injurious to health.
Animals that prey on game, such as foxes or weasels.

A person considered loathsome or highly offensive.
Such people considered as a group.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, from Old French, from Vulgar Latin *vermnum, from Latin vermis, worm.]

Also they are any creature which is, by the law of the country, which can be killed whenever you wish to counter that harm they cause.
Examples of vermin: Foxes, rats, pidgeons, mice, grey squirrels and crows.

In some hunts, they do not kill the fox, so presumably it gets smarter every time, thus more challenging. I think this is ok. otherwise, its unacceptable, rather like children shooting cats, dogs or babies with BB guns.

Don't be so absurd, that's even worse! To chase and re-chase and chase again the same fox. It's pretty tiring for the fox and acheives nothing.

Regards,

The New Empire

ver·min ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrmn)
n. pl. vermin
Various small animals or insects, such as rats or cockroaches, that are destructive, annoying, or injurious to health.
Animals that prey on game, such as foxes or weasels.

A person considered loathsome or highly offensive.
Such people considered as a group.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, from Old French, from Vulgar Latin *vermnum, from Latin vermis, worm.]

Also they are any creature which is, by the law of the country, which can be killed whenever you wish to counter that harm they cause.
Examples of vermin: Foxes, rats, pidgeons, mice, grey squirrels and crows.

Hmmm, I see.

Killing them is a form of self-defence then?

Who cares, its just a stupid ignorant fox

Who cares, its just a stupid ignorant fox

'just a stupid ignorant' is relative, one could try applying that to, I dunno, Jews?

this discussion comes down to one thing and one thing only some people sat in their mid town semis with nothing more to occupy their minds that interfering with other peoples lives, for centuries in this countries rural people have run the country side and done a relatively good job and we know the best way to get the job done when goverments get involded we get mixamytosis and when animal rights activists get involded we get mink let out whom then go on to decimate the local wildlife population,put quite simply just let us get on with it we have maintain the balance in the country side for centuries and will continue to do so for many more we are changing if the antis hadnt got involded fox hunting would have continued its decline anyhow so leave us be and let us do are job please.

More importantly, it really isn't fair. two dozen armed guys on horseback with dogs vs. a fox. I much prefer fair fights. In bullriding(and bullfights), I routinely root for the bull. ANd sometimes, the bull wins! :twisted:
I concur. After all, don't tools give us a bit too much of an advantage? Why don't we simply ban it and hunt other hunters? There's real challenge in that!
Maybe reintroduce wolves or bears into Britain and insist that hunters don't use any weapons? :D

Activists Eaten by Grizzly Bear (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/10/09/bear.attack.ap/index.html)

"Isn't it because it's happening 'here' rather than 'there'?"

foxhunting is HERE, poaching is THERE. Yes, correct. My point was that poaching is a very pressing issue and we are faced with the extinction of many interesting animals. Here we are making a big fuss about stopping people killing vermin.
Here and there should not matter because the 'here; issue is not an issue and the 'there' issue is very important.
But 'we' have sovereignty over 'here' and we don't over parts of Africa. So the difference in location absolutely does matter. We are familiar with our own countryside and animals, and don't have to travel far to appreciate them.

Who cares, its just a stupid ignorant fox

'just a stupid ignorant' is relative, one could try applying that to, I dunno, Jews?

Hey, hippy!
Foxes aren't people and as-such have different rights.
Regards,

The New Empire

Who cares, its just a stupid ignorant fox

'just a stupid ignorant' is relative, one could try applying that to, I dunno, Jews?

Hey, hippy!
Foxes aren't people and as-such have different rights.
Regards,

The New Empire


Why should you treat something as different just because it is stupid and ignorant. Look at George Bush...You want to suggest putting him down?

And why should animals be treated differently? Surely because we are more powerful we should be expected to act in a responsible manner towards all animals. I am not saying that foxes are not needing to be controlled i just say that do it in the right way....

Who cares, its just a stupid ignorant fox

'just a stupid ignorant' is relative, one could try applying that to, I dunno, Jews?

Hey, hippy!
Foxes aren't people and as-such have different rights.
Regards,

The New Empire

Dear NE,
Foxes are sentient creatures, no less than man, and as such have exactly the same rights as us.
Best wishes for Christmas.

Who cares, its just a stupid ignorant fox

'just a stupid ignorant' is relative, one could try applying that to, I dunno, Jews?

Hey, hippy!
Foxes aren't people and as-such have different rights.
Regards,

The New Empire

Dear NE,
Foxes are sentient creatures, no less than man, and as such have exactly the same rights as us.

They have not the power of thought, or realy thought. They have not reason not do they have the capacity to act beyond instinct.
They are stupid and violent creatures blighted with stinking skin diseases.

They are not on the same plane of existance as humans. Yes we have a duty to protect them but by 'them' we mean species and not individual animals. If they are getting in the way then hunt them down and kill them.

It is the only way.

Regards,

The New Empire

No, foxhunting should not be banned. It is necessary for farmers to protect thier herds from pests.

Have you tried it?



Nope. Not tried genocide either, but I know its wrong too. (I'm not comparing genocide to fox hunting, just showing that it can't be used as a argument tool)

No, foxhunting should not be banned. It is necessary for farmers to protect thier herds from pests.

Herds? What, foxes kill cows?
It isn't neccesary. The wonderful invention of guns.

Most farmers only have shotguns, ever tried shooting a fox with a shotgun?

Thought not, it's absurd.

Just set the dogs after them!!!

I see nothing wrong with hunting down foxes.

They are a pest, after all.

I don't object to the killing on foxes. They are pests, and they destroy farmers animals (as in poultry). However I don't see why it is nessasary to dress up in stupid clothes and ride horses whilst being accompanied with a travelling band. Also I cannot see how it is 'sport.'

Of course it's a sport. You get together, get smashed and kill some animals. :P

During a recent stoned conversation lying atop a hill, watching the hnters below, we talked about genetically modified foxes. The size of huge dinosaurs. With big sharp teeth. Chasing the hunters. First from the shrubbery came the fox, then the hunters, then these huge foxes, crushing trees underfoot.

That was a fun day.

Nah, give them pyrokinesis instead.

I think all forms of hunting should be banned. There are better ways of controlling vermin than by dressing up in stupid clothes and chasing them on horses. To my mind, anyone who enjoys the chasing and killing of animals is twisted and this includes the British royal family!! Fox hunting is just a barbaric, cruel outdated horrible hobby
I agree, any sort of sport that involves the abusing of animals is uncivilised and those who support it are just as culpable as those who engage in it.
Let us take part in sports that involve only human participation and lets stop the degrading and barbaric cruelty towards animals.