NationStates Jolt Archive

Understanding that nations may wish to place weapons in space to wage war,

REALIZING that these weapons affect the peace of nations around the world (and in other locations);

CONCERNED that said weapons would cause mass destruction;

CONCERNED that said weapons cannot be destroyed by anti-ballistic missiles;

1. DECLARES that space must remain a neutral zone for mutual prosperity, exploration, and research, and that weapons cannot be placed into orbit.

2. DEFINES “Orbital Weaponry” as any weapon stationed above one-hundred kilometers above any planet's surface with OFFENSIVE capability,

3. PRESERVES the right of individual nations to create DEFENSIVE orbital weapons to protect themselves from Ballistic Missiles,

4. REQUIRES that any World Assembly nation with OFFENSIVE Orbital Weaponry deactivate said weapons immediately if this resolution is passed.


Debate/discuss, please.

I so agree with it. Don't ban weapons that go trough space, though.

Already covered:

2. DEFINES “Orbital Weaponry” as any weapon stationed above one-hundred kilometers above the Earth’s surface with OFFENSIVE capability,


Key word in this point: "stationed", as so not to violate the right of those nations in possession of ICBM's with nuclear warheads.

Debate/discuss, please.

Sure.

2. DEFINES “Orbital Weaponry” as any weapon stationed above one-hundred kilometers above the Earth’s surface with OFFENSIVE capability,

Some nations are not located on Earth. I guess those of us are exempt from this then?

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

Then this means that I must make an addendum -- any planet's surface.

Sorry for my ignorance.

Understanding that nations may wish to place weapons in space to wage war,

REALIZING that these weapons affect the peace of nations around the world (and in other locations);

CONCERNED that said weapons would cause mass destruction;

CONCERNED that said weapons cannot be destroyed by anti-ballistic missiles;

1. DECLARES that space must remain a neutral zone for mutual prosperity, exploration, and research, and that weapons cannot be placed into orbit.

2. DEFINES “Orbital Weaponry” as any weapon stationed above one-hundred kilometers above any planet's surface with OFFENSIVE capability,

3. PRESERVES the right of individual nations to create DEFENSIVE orbital weapons to protect themselves from Ballistic Missiles,

4. REQUIRES that any World Assembly nation with OFFENSIVE Orbital Weaponry deactivate said weapons immediately if this resolution is passed.

Who: Thundra Whispermoon
Location: Darnassian Office
Topic: Orbital Weaponry

"This," Thundra began, rubbing her forhead."is an outriding piece of crap that demands our unequivical opposition in any form you wish to present it in. We are not from Earth; Eluneyasa is not a singular nation, but a commonwealth of nations. There are only two nations on Azeroth not part of it, and one of them doesn't have the technological capacity to even begin to understand what an orbit it."

The night elf sighed before continuing. "What this basically tells us is that we cannot place weaponry in orbit around our planet to defend it from others wishing to attack it. That we must sit by and pray whatever ships we have at the time are enough of a defense. That we must hope our enemy launches ballistic missiles instead of doing the smart thing and flinging asteroids. I can think of a dozen different ways to reduce your nation to a decorative bowl without ever entering Earth's atmosphere, and none of those ways involve ballistic missiles.

"And you expect support for this. You, sitting on your pretty little planet where the most major threat is that one of your neighbors might go a little crazy and make some people glow at night. You, who didn't spend ten thousand years at war with a military organization of races bent on exterminating all life in the galaxy. You, who's history doesn't include having to fight against beings so old and so powerful that they're effectively gods. You, who do not have half a continentdevoid of living things because of a plague unleashed upon your world as part of a plan to cleanse it of all resistance. You honestly expect support for this?

"My people have done a lot of stupid things in our long history. We caused an explosion so powerful it ripped what was once the world's only continent into pieces. We caused a war that lasted ten thousand years, ending finally only when the last leader of an intergalactic army of extermination was slain. And we've done a lot more things since then. But this? This would be us not learning from any of our past military mistakes.

"No, I do not support it. I never will support it. And I would hope you would scrap it. Because, remember, giant flying rocks are cheap in space and you don't have any weaponry to stop one."

Then, the elf shuffled papers and moved on to the next item.

OOC: Basically, what you're doing is the equivolent of banning modern nations from using anti-missile technology or putting machine guns in their military bases.

You're welcome to see if there's anything usable in a proposal I wrote on this topic a while ago (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=559614).

I don't like that it bans anything with offensive capability. My own nation maintains a space-based laser, which could potentially be used offensively. We don't use it for such purposes, but it would still be banned. Many other important satellites have offensive capability (as would anything that can be used defensively, which makes §3 and §4 contradictory).

OOC: Basically, what you're doing is the equivolent of banning modern nations from using anti-missile technology or putting machine guns in their military bases.

OOC: Actually, quite the opposite.

What I'm speaking of banning is the use of say... space based weapons platforms for things such as lasers (for the attacking of ground targets), "Rods from God", or even something like the SOLG from Ace Combat, not things like modern nation's missile defense systems and the like.

OOC: Actually, quite the opposite.

What I'm speaking of banning is the use of say... space based weapons platforms for things such as lasers (for the attacking of ground targets), "Rods from God", or even something like the SOLG from Ace Combat, not things like modern nation's missile defense systems and the like.

Which is nice... if that's all it actually did and it was limited entirely to modern tech nations. However, not all of us play modern tech nations. I play future tech; for my own nation, this would be the equivolent of banning missile defense systems and the like. And I'm far from the only future tech nation. Go have a visit to International Incidents and look around.

Just remember, the NS WA is just like the real UN. Nobody really follows it.

OOC: Actually, quite the opposite.

What I'm speaking of banning is the use of say... space based weapons platforms for things such as lasers (for the attacking of ground targets), "Rods from God", or even something like the SOLG from Ace Combat, not things like modern nation's missile defense systems and the like.

OOC: Which according to what you're saying here is that you're attempting to ban is a lot of platforms that FT nations may have since they likely have both offensive and defensive capabilities. You have to keep in mind that not every nation is on a MT level. With this, you could potentially be seriously crippling a certain tech level. Yeah, it's pretty in legislation, but it's not necessary. You should probably look at banning the harshest forms of space based weapons like orbital bombardment of civilian targets. Allow the nations to go after military targets.

You also have to keep in mind that this will only affect WA nations. Once this happens, you'd have non-WA nations still putting offensive weapons platforms, thus giving them the a major advantage. We don't want to weaken WA nations.

IC: I'm sorry, but there is no way that the Republic can back this proposal in it's current form.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

we as a FT nation are shocked at this proposal, this is like banning ICBM,s for MT nations.

OOC: we will not agree to this notion that players only play as MT

Considering that this would require me to give up my key to the Cluichistani Death Star, I'm opposed.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Okinawakenshi has decreed the following:

The research of Orbital Weapons will proceed regardless of the danger it might pose to the intellect beings on Earth following the threat that may be posted against the human race if another species of common intellectual levels may be found in the not-too-distant future.

The Parliament is deeply concerned with the technological backwardness of the human race in the matters of destruction, or in other words the ability to defend one's homeland from natural threats such as: meteors striking Earth or similar events. Therefore, the parliament has decreed the research and invention of Orbital Weapons may not necessarily be a threat to peace, rather if put in the right hands, it would be a tool to relative peace and to preserve the existence of the Human Race.

Yours Sincerely,
Delegated Representative
The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Okinawakenshi
Loyal Subordinate to the Crown
Her Majesty
Queen Elizabeth the Second.

Just remember, the NS WA is just like the real UN. Nobody really follows it.

Actually, it's been stated by the mods on multiple occasions that any nation in the UN is compelled to follow all resolutions, even those that make little sense. This, in fact, is where the 'magical UN gnomes' reference came from.

We are firmly against both nuclear weapons and the weaponization of space, but for pedantic reasons we ask clarification on the following point:

Do orbital nuclear second-strike facilities qualify as "offensive" or "defensive"?

Actually, it's been stated by the mods on multiple occasions that any nation in the UN is compelled to follow all resolutions, even those that make little sense. This, in fact, is where the 'magical UN gnomes' reference came from.

Yes, just about everyone ignores it IC anyway.

We don't.

Regardless of the outcome if the proposal is approved and if it passes, FSSU will still go along with the space program in launching it's orbital weapon for defensive and offensive purposes as the WA holds no jurisdiction or bearing on it's member states in the International Conflicts.

the haille hebrons endorse this measure.


p.s. on the WA proposal page how do i officially endorse a measure. Its the listed proposals in the webpage's WA section

Regardless of the outcome if the proposal is approved and if it passes, FSSU will still go along with the space program in launching it's orbital weapon for defensive and offensive purposes as the WA holds no jurisdiction or bearing on it's member states in the International Conflicts.Somehow I think the Gnomes will disagree.

the haille hebrons endorse this measure.


p.s. on the WA proposal page how do i officially endorse a measure. Its the listed proposals in the webpage's WA section

You have to be a delegate to approve proposals.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

The Empire will accept the disarmament of our offensive Orbital Weaponry, but we will never accept the dismantling of our defensive weapons. For those wondering, these weapons pose no risk to anything planetside, only ICBM's and the like.

We will never disarmament our Offensive Orbital Weaponry or dismantling any of our defensive and offensive weapons including the weapons of mass destruction.

I can't let the resolution destroy my entire military, and that's exactly what it would do. Without my space-based weapons, my nation would lie almost defenseless against lunatics who want to invade it. It would also take out much of the discipline in Divinen, as many of our criminals are sentenced to labor on our flagships or at our Space Fleet bases and our law sends teenage fathers into the Space Fleet as privates to make them pay for their children. Disabling our space fleet takes that all away.

And, the concept of M.A.D. is a very peace-promoting idea. Mutually Assured Destruction, the idea that if two high-tech nations have an all out war that it will only result in their mutual destruction, prevents a lot of wars. If there is no ominous threat of total destruction looming over the heads of rulers, more wars will erupt. This is why there are few wars in modern society in real life, because if two nuclear nations fight both will be destroyed.

Yes, just about everyone ignores it IC anyway.

OOC: You mean, "just about everyone I know in my one area of RP interest, which is not the entire game". Just thought I'd provide some clarification there.

Now, IC:

Regardless of the outcome if the proposal is approved and if it passes, FSSU will still go along with the space program in launching it's orbital weapon for defensive and offensive purposes as the WA holds no jurisdiction or bearing on it's member states in the International Conflicts.

Will you cease with your insistence that you can be in the WA and yet not be bound by any resolutions you don't like? Seriously, it's getting old. This is your argument on virtually everything, and you've been told repeatedly that you're just wrong.

We will never disarmament our Offensive Orbital Weaponry or dismantling any of our defensive and offensive weapons including the weapons of mass destruction.

If something like this were to pass, yes, you would. Try arguing against it and making sure it doesn't happen instead of continuing to do the "I'm Not Listening" dance with your fingers in your ears. You may find it more productive.

As to this proposal itself, the Federation is vehemently opposed to any such measures which would hinder or weaken our ability to defend ourselves. What is the justification for denying reasonable, sane, responsible members of the international community the right to use all available means for their defense?

-Jaris Krytellin, Ambassador

Point of order my esteemed colleague:

How about spaceships and other future tech weaponry. If a ship is in orbit can that ship not fire in an offensive mode? I ask because this body does have some technologically advanced civilizations.

Point of order my esteemed colleague:

How about spaceships and other future tech weaponry. If a ship is in orbit can that ship not fire in an offensive mode? I ask because this body does have some technologically advanced civilizations.

That is one of my primary concerns. Our ships are both defensive and offensive. Should this pass, would we not even be able to have our own ships in orbit around our planets?

According to this piece of *deep breath* legislature ..... all offensive weapons are to be banned from orbit. So, following that logic, no space faring civilization would be allowed to have a ship in orbit considering that the ship likely contains some form of offensive weaponry. Of course, there would be some exceptions, diplomatic and trading ships and the like.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador