NationStates Jolt Archive

I mean, insofar the World Assembly is the World Assembly, does the force of its Resolutions extend into the Low Orbits, Lagrangian Points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point), other Star Systems, space ships, Space Colonies, Moons, and so on?

If not, what (if anything) can be done to address the issue?

I don't personally see anything wrong with an Outer Space Treaty to declare the proper conduct for nation's in Space. However the colonization of moons and such under a "WA Order", as if this organization is some tyrannical imperial army, well...that would not ONLY be conforming to the stereotype that member's of Gatesville have been painting us as, but also I believe would be an illegal proposal. As we are not an Army, or a Military...or any sort of extending empire. The WA is an instrument of diplomacy.

As for where our "jurisdiction" lies, I would say, our jurisdiction lies where ever our members and our diplomacy lies... ?

I mean, insofar the World Assembly is the World Assembly, does the force of its Resolutions extend into the Low Orbits, Lagrangian Points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point), other Star Systems, space ships, Space Colonies, Moons, and so on?The force of its resolutions extends to anywhere that member states exist, so yes.

The WA's jurisdiction in space is nonexistent beyond certain regulations on satellites, given the number of heavily armed, non-WA nations up there who dislike interference from busybody gnomes working for NGOs.

It can certainly legislate all it wants on the subject, but in reality there's not much it can do.

Maybe we need a new and separate assembly. We could keep the one that we have and create another assembly system. The Global Congress. GC for short.

Maybe we need a new and separate assembly. We could keep the one that we have and create another assembly system. The Global Congress. GC for short.

That would require recoding the game, in other words, it's not going to happen.

That would require recoding the game, in other words, it's not going to happen.


Not to mention incredibly pointless

Maybe we need a new and separate assembly. We could keep the one that we have and create another assembly system. The Global Congress. GC for short.So people can say they're not on "the globe" and cause us to create a third assembly? No thanks.

Could a Nation situated entirely in Space (except for Embassies and Trade Liaisons) apply for World Assembly Membership?

(Of course I am not speaking of alien civilizations. I mean Space ex-Colonies, self-sustaining space biosphere Nations, etc.)

Could a Nation situated entirely in Space (except for Embassies and Trade Liaisons) apply for World Assembly Membership?

(Of course I am not speaking of alien civilizations. I mean Space ex-Colonies, self-sustaining space biosphere Nations, etc.)
Yes, and I'm fairly sure that some have done so in the past; and then also, of course, not all of the "world"-based nations are actually located on any recognisable version of the Earth...

The WA's jurisdiction in space is nonexistent beyond certain regulations on satellites, given the number of heavily armed, non-WA nations up there who dislike interference from busybody gnomes working for NGOs.

It can certainly legislate all it wants on the subject, but in reality there's not much it can do.Member nations situated in space have to abide by World Assembly resolutions, whether their neighbors like it or not. That's the way it was with Yelda and DLE when they were members, and the way it will be for any spacefaring nations that may follow them.

But how does this all go for nations existing in time pockets and parallel dimensions?

-Ariovist Lynxkind, Ambassador

But how does this all go for nations existing in time pockets and parallel dimensions?

-Ariovist Lynxkind, Ambassador

I think the issue then would be one of communicability. Assuming a network of wormholes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole) could ensure the existence of a topology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_spanning_tree) permitting communication among all the Nations, even if contained in different spectra of the space-time continuum, their admission could be allowed.

But that, in turn, raises an other wholly different, but most pertinent question:

Who should/could control said wormholes? Nations? Regions? Trade Corporations? W.A. Agencies? The W.A. itself?

Who should/could control said wormholes? Nations? Regions? Trade Corporations? W.A. Agencies? The W.A. itself?
They are controlled by whoever controls them. It's as simple as that. The question of who should control them is sort of irrelevant.

On the matter of WA jurisdiction. The WA has jurisdiction over its members and all of their sovereign territory. This for the most part excludes interstellar space for the same reasons it excludes international waters on planetary surfaces. A possible exception might be if a WA member was bold enough (and strong enough) to claim tracts of interstellar space as its sovereign territory and have those claims recognized. Then those tracts of interstellar space, and only those tracts, would fall under WA jurisdiction.

Interstellar space is just "different" in terms of territorial sovereignty and legal jurisdiction and it's best to consider it mostly outside the purview of the World Assembly.

Aüþgæþ Spøtyiú
Ambassador

NO as 2/3 of nations are not members of the WA.

NO as 2/3 of nations are not members of the WA.

What bearing would said proportion have in defining regulations? I also think the non-member ratio is much higher.

On the matter of WA jurisdiction. The WA has jurisdiction over its members and all of their sovereign territory. This for the most part excludes interstellar space for the same reasons it excludes international waters on planetary surfaces. A possible exception might be if a WA member was bold enough (and strong enough) to claim tracts of interstellar space as its sovereign territory and have those claims recognized. Then those tracts of interstellar space, and only those tracts, would fall under WA jurisdiction.

Interstellar space is just "different" in terms of territorial sovereignty and legal jurisdiction and it's best to consider it mostly outside the purview of the World Assembly.

Aüþgæþ Spøtyiú
Ambassador


What if a nation consists of spacefaring nomads which traverse a large area of interstellar space which they claim as their territory rather than a home world or collection of home worlds honoured Ambassador ?


Yours,

What if a nation consists of spacefaring nomads which traverse a large area of interstellar space which they claim as their territory rather than a home world or collection of home worlds honoured Ambassador ?


Yours,

I'd imagine it would at least take effect in whatever sort of craft they are traversing the tract of open space in.

Richard York
WA Ambassador

What if a nation consists of spacefaring nomads which traverse a large area of interstellar space which they claim as their territory rather than a home world or collection of home worlds honoured Ambassador ?


Yours,
Comrade Ambassador Spøtyiú is away at the moment, so I will offer an opinion on behalf of the Yeldan government.

I believe it would depend on the space-faring nomads being able, militarily, to back up their claim to this large area. That is usually what it comes down to. Otherwise, their territorial sovereignty would consist of their fleet and the navigational space surrounding it.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

By voluntarily joining the WA, all member nations become subject to its jurisdiction, regardless of their location.

QED

EDIT: Misses DLE and is moved by the mention of that great nation.

Comrade Ambassador Spøtyiú is away at the moment, so I will offer an opinion on behalf of the Yeldan government.

I believe it would depend on the space-faring nomads being able, militarily, to back up their claim to this large area. That is usually what it comes down to. Otherwise, their territorial sovereignty would consist of their fleet and the navigational space surrounding it.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security


Ah yes, might is right. That makes perfect sense.


Yours,

By voluntarily joining the WA, all member nations become subject to its jurisdiction, regardless of their location.

QED
I don't believe anybody is disputing that.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

I don't believe anybody is disputing that.

I thought there were nations questioning exactly that in this thread.

Perhaps I should clarify: the WA has jurisdiction over all member nations and therefore has jurisdiction over all territory, space, geography, area, etc over which any member nation has jurisdiction.

As to areas not within the jurisdiction of any member nation, however, the question is an interesting one. Also, one can debate the extent of any member nation's jurisdiction over a particular territory, space, geography, area, etc.

As to areas not within the jurisdiction of any member nation, however, the question is an interesting one. Also, one can debate the extent of any member nation's jurisdiction over a particular territory, space, geography, area, etc.

Which brings up an interesting point. If I knew the debate wouldn't turn into, "How come his is bigger than mine?" I'd try to draft a proposal establishing national boundaries. It was tried in the organization that can firmly plant its lips upon my ass, and I do believe it came under heavy scrutiny. Since many of the more finiky nations have jumped ship, it might be time to introduce something like that again.

I thought there were nations questioning exactly that in this thread.
I think Axis Nova was probably referring to interstellar space outside the territory of any WA member, they can correct me if I'm wrong. Serbian_Soviet_Union doesn't count.

I think Axis Nova was probably referring to interstellar space outside the territory of any WA member

AH! I see. Well we can't have WA nations avoiding our laws perpetually by flouting around in spaceships or spacestations, or emmense cruiseships. This needs to be clarified with a well written proposal.

If I'm not wrong, in the existing laws on ships and aircraft (based on what I know in RL, of course), while in flight or on the high seas the vessel is considered to be under the jurisdiction of the state it was registered in. For example, because Australia has a law banning smoking on aircraft, you can be prosecuted by the Australians for smoking on board any Australia-registered aircraft regardless of where in the world it is when you light up. And a baby born on board an aircraft in flight would be considered to have been born in the country that aircraft is registered in for all legal purposes.

It would be reasonable that this concept applies to spacecraft as well. So as long as a member state is exercising jurisdiction over its spacecraft, that spacecraft and everyone on board it is subject to that state's jurisdiction, and therefore to the WA's jurisdiction. The only way for the spacecraft to escape WA jurisdiction would be for its nation not to exercise any legal jurisdiction over it - which I doubt they would do since that would basically create a spaceborne anarchy they have no authority over; which sounds to me like an idea for a movie.

That's my take on it, at least.

AH! I see. Well we can't have WA nations avoiding our laws perpetually by flouting around in spaceships or spacestations, or emmense cruiseships. This needs to be clarified with a well written proposal.

Bah, there are much easier, cheaper, and practical ways of getting around the WA's laws. WA Micronations are the way to go.

Bah, there are much easier, cheaper, and practical ways of getting around the WA's laws. WA Micronations are the way to go.

*clears space in broom closet*
:p

For example, because Australia has a law banning smoking on aircraft, you can be prosecuted by the Australians for smoking on board any Australia-registered aircraft regardless of where in the world it is when you light up. And a baby born on board an aircraft in flight would be considered to have been born in the country that aircraft is registered in for all legal purposes.

This is true, however it only applies to plane when it is in the air and not on the ground in a foreign nation which would possibly allow that, if said nation were dumb enough(speaking RLly) to allow that as the plane is pressurized when in flight and there is a greater risk for a very hazardous fire.

Actually, in the past, smoking in flight was common and permitted, and from what I've read Concorde was a yes smoking flight up until the service was retired. I'm not old enough to remember, or rich enough to have flown on Concorde, though.

It would be reasonable that this concept applies to spacecraft as well.
This is correct. A vessel in space falls under the same guidelines as an aircraft in flight or a ship at sea.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

WA membership is welcome to all nations in whatever kind of form (land, sea, space, whatever). Personally I do like to see some space-related resolutions soon so we can stop those craft burn-ups due to rickety safety regulations of one nation.

WA membership is welcome to all nations in whatever kind of form (land, sea, space, whatever). Personally I do like to see some space-related resolutions soon so we can stop those craft burn-ups due to rickety safety regulations of one nation.


Also, provisions should be in place to the ease the international tension that stems from these so called "star wars".

We wish the honoured ambassador for Unibot luck. Thus far, every attempt we have seen to draft a proposal concerning this matter has increased international tensions -- for some reason, space-based nations treat a suggestion that they disarm themselves as a threat. We cannot imagine why.

AH! I see. Well we can't have WA nations avoiding our laws perpetually by flouting around in spaceships or spacestations, or emmense cruiseships. This needs to be clarified with a well written proposal.

Interstellar or interplanetary.

And, as stated, the WA can write legislation saying the sky is mauve, but that doesn't mean it has the power to enforce it. Gnomes don't breathe vacuum very well.

We wish the honoured ambassador for Unibot luck. Thus far, every attempt we have seen to draft a proposal concerning this matter has increased international tensions -- for some reason, space-based nations treat a suggestion that they disarm themselves as a threat. We cannot imagine why.

For much the same reason why any effort to remove the nuclear capabilities of UN nations fails miserably.