NationStates Jolt Archive

This resolution has been deleted by Wachichi.

I have made neccessary changes in a newer educational resolution called The Education Act of 2008. It's much broader and up for debate by that title.

look for it. Criticize it. Amend it. to help the world address educational needs.

This proposal will never come to vote, as it bans an ideology (religious ideology) from being taught. Not that it's against the rules, but because it's not a popular thing to do.

Also, you do not mention how government administration of public schools is increased, yet you mentioned that it is increased.

Dr. Bradford Castro,
Ambassador to the World Assembly,
from the Commonwealth of Glen-Rhodes

It's spelled 'Maths'.

By which I mean: most of this proposal seems very specific to one particular approach to education. Any nation that doesn't have a federal government, for example, wouldn't be affected by it.

Finally, given the numerous grammatical and spelling errors, [insert customary wisecrack about proposal topic].

6. (a) The banning of faith classes in public schools is a must in order to keep all students comfortable within the school limits and not pressed to change religions.
(b)So that people of little, no, or other faiths not feel that the government and/or school favors a specific religion over other religions.


This would have to be altered. Perhaps it could read something along the lines of 'religious classes may be offered but not necessarily required'.

That would give Theocracies the right to require religious classes as it reads 'but not necessarily required', but other nations don't have to offer them at all.

We absolutely will not be told how to organise our education system by fiat of the w.a., this system and that outlined in other resolutions elsewhere are woefully inadequate and are utterly crass. Our government is justly proud of its education system, we will not see it butchered by primitive and backward preconceptions about best practice in this area.

yours e.t.c. ,

It's spelled 'Maths'.

OOC: Where I'm from, it's 'Math'. Different areas, different spellings. :p

IC:

We absolutely will not be told how to organise our education system by fiat of the w.a., this system and that outlined in other resolutions elsewhere are woefully inadequate and are utterly crass. Our government is justly proud of its education system, we will not see it butchered by primitive and backward preconceptions about best practice in this area.

Honored Ambassador from Urgench, I'm curious now about your education system. I mean no disrespect, but might you explain to me how it works? I'm always curious to learn more about the culture of others.

It's spelled 'Maths'.

Actually, that'd be spelled "the maths." Otherwise it's just "math."

Actually, that'd be spelled "the maths." Otherwise it's just "math."
I was making the point that in UK English, it's 'maths'. In UK English, 'public schools' are private schools. And in UK English, the 'federal government' has a completely different meaning. I don't really care what we actually call it - rename it 'Sums and stuff' for all I care - this proposal is grounded in assumptions derived from the US system of education. It's totally unrealistic to require every other nation to adopt such.

OOC: Where I'm from, it's 'Math'. Different areas, different spellings. :p

IC:



Honored Ambassador from Urgench, I'm curious now about your education system. I mean no disrespect, but might you explain to me how it works? I'm always curious to learn more about the culture of others.



In fact, honoured and respected Ambassador, our system is highly decentralised. The large number of autonomous regions and states aswell as the strong influence of tribes in some regions of the empire has led the government of the Emperor of Urgench to a policy of educational individualisation.

The state provides traditional mass educational settings, primary, secondary and tertiary, however the vast majority of Urgenchis are enabled by state funding to seek educational opportunities in ways which best suit them. At three stages in early life all Urgenchis are required to submit to testing to see if they are receiving the education they need to help them be happier and better persons,if they are not no effort or exspense is spared in supplying them their educational needs. After this in adult life our citizens are encouraged to continue this process as and when they wish. In some regions more formal systems exist but the citizens of these regions are entitled to opt out of these systems and seek government grants to explore the avenues of education that fullfill them.

Since the life span of Urgenchis is by many standards rather long this system helps our peoples to evolve over time at their own pace and in most cases fairly comprehensively a conciousness which is unique and well rounded.

Our system is not geared towards creating diligent workers who's life will be that of drones in our private and public sectors, it is aimed at creating intelligent, self fullfilled and socially responsible individuals, which in the vast majority of situations it does.


We hope this has been of interest to our friend the honoured Ambassador for Rutianas.

yours sincerely,

This is my proposed resolution when it comes to education for all WA members. Feel free to make suggestions and ammendments to this bill in order to improve it. If you agree with everything you see, and are a regional delegate, support this resolution to put it up for vote in the WA Assembly. Just look up General Educational Laws to approve it. thank you.

We will give this a once-over and check to see if we agree.

Description: This resolution is to be put into effect by all WA members to help preserve or reform their educational systems.

Recognizing that limited government intervention is necessary in private education.

There are some who would disagree with the second point, in that they would believe private education being left up to those doing the learning to allow them to best maximise their education potential.

Acknowledging that public schools is defined as: a government controlled and regulated school which turns away no one and is provided without fee to everyone without discrimination based on faith, sex, background, heritage, culture, race, or sexual orientation.

Add "social status" to this list to cover the full basics.

Noting that private schools is defined as: a privately government free owned school started by a person or persons.

While still providing adequate educational funds to help the youth of the WA member.

The second sentence in that part is a bit odd hanging there by itself. Combine these two?

In order to enhance the educational experiences of all young persons both in private and public schools, from both rich and poor backgrounds from either sex, religious, political cultural background.

On second thought... In this section and the previous, instead of adding "social status," change "background" to "social status."

Do propose the current General Education Laws stating:

1. The rights of private schools to teach what they wish as long as minimum educational needs are met by the schools set by the government of the specific nation.

We would take issue with this section. Some private schools are set up specifically for advancement in a certain area, such as for training certain job-skills or helping a person deficient in science manage to advance their understanding.

2. The government set up guidelines and a minimum education system in which all schools much abide. Including but not limited to:
(a) High School level Reading
(b) High School level Math
(c) Science education including but not limited to: Biology, Chemistry, and Physics.

We have an issue with the third one. It applies to our nation, but we are not sure if it applies to all members of this assembly. It might require them to educate their citizens on items that their most advanced scientists are not aware of.

3.Complete funding for all educational needs, without neglect.

Please define this section better, as nations can abuse it easily under the current construction.

4.Every government must do all it can to help improve and excel it's education system in order to help the youth of the world.

5. The rights of private schools to have classes of faith if they wish for.

6. (a) The banning of faith classes in public schools is a must in order to keep all students comfortable within the school limits and not pressed to change religions.
(b)So that people of little, no, or other faiths not feel that the government and/or school favors a specific religion over other religions.

These three are automatically going to gain a stiff resistance, with faith-based nations viewing 5 and 6 as contradicting 4. There are also nations where a certain amount of faith education is absolutely essential for the average citizen to be able to successfully operate within that nation. Even though we are not such a nation, we cannot in good conscience support a proposal that would alienate those nations any more than we could support a proposal that would alienate our own.

7. Every private school has the right to provide it's own extra classes as long as it meets minimal demands by the education system.

8. The federal government can never take over any private school without adequate reason.
(a) a private school is doing something unlawful
(b) a private school is contributing to some illegal practice

9. No government may take control over the any private school simply because it is about to close down.

10. Finally, limited government control over private school, while increasing government administration over public schools.

Number 10 is unnecessary, given that it is implicitly implied in 7-9.

Diplomat Xen Felgras

In fact, honoured and respected Ambassador, our system is highly decentralised. The large number of autonomous regions and states aswell as the strong influence of tribes in some regions of the empire has led the government of the Emperor of Urgench to a policy of educational individualisation.

The state provides traditional mass educational settings, primary, secondary and tertiary, however the vast majority of Urgenchis are enabled by state funding to seek educational opportunities in ways which best suit them. At three stages in early life all Urgenchis are required to submit to testing to see if they are receiving the education they need to help them be happier and better persons,if they are not no effort or exspense is spared in supplying them their educational needs. After this in adult life our citizens are encouraged to continue this process as and when they wish. In some regions more formal systems exist but the citizens of these regions are entitled to opt out of these systems and seek government grants to explore the avenues of education that fullfill them.

Since the life span of Urgenchis is by many standards rather long this system helps our peoples to evolve over time at their own pace and in most cases fairly comprehensively a conciousness which is unique and well rounded.

Our system is not geared towards creating diligent workers who's life will be that of drones in our private and public sectors, it is aimed at creating intelligent, self fullfilled and socially responsible individuals, which in the vast majority of situations it is.


We hope this has been of interest to our friend the honoured Ambassador for Rutianas.

yours sincerely,

Sounds very similar to our own system in some respects. Our system tests young children to find their aptitudes and places them in schools that will help to hone those talents. Of course, all our schools teach the basic reading, writing, and mathematics, but some schools are more specialised than others. Like your system, we don't teach our children to be drones.

In fact, the one thing we disliked about this proposal banning religious classes is that we do offer them to our children. We don't just offer one view, but a multitude of them. Every religion that we have come across and have someone willing to teach it, we have that option. We offer it in order to help our children find some sort of spirituality in whatever guise they discover it in.

I thank you for the explanation of your educational system. It was indeed enlightening.

What the others have said. There are a lot of assumptions embedded in this that need a lot more explicit thought applied. Also, the grammar sucks.

thank you guys, i've made specific amendments to the resolution in question to help gain more support for it. I'll eventually post another draft so you guys can destroy that one too. Sorry about the grammar and vocab mistakes. i was in a bit of a rush when doing this. It's my first proposed resolution. Thanks for the criticism.

i posted up the changes in the resolution. Hopefully it has met some standards in each of your nations in order to support it. If you have specific problems, feel free to tell me what bothers you about the resolution.

Description: This resolution is to be put into effect by all WA members to help preserve or reform their educational systems.

Looking at it, this is a bit redundant, due to how the WA works. I'd reword it as "BELIEVING that governments should act to advance the education of their own citizens."

In order to enhance the educational experiences of all young persons both in private and public schools, from either sex, religious, political cultural or social background.

I would still argue that current social status is more important than social background.

2. The government set up guidelines and a minimum education system in which all schools must abide. Including but not limited to:
(c) Science education including but not limited to: Biology, Chemistry, and Physics.

OOC: What about nations that use magic instead of science? Back to IC after this.

4.Every government must do all it can to help improve and excel it's education system in order to help the youth of the world.

I would put this part at the top of the proposal and start it with "Believing." It makes a much better opening than what you have and what I suggested.

10. Finally, there is to be limited government control over private schools, while increasing government administration over public schools.

I still think this one is redundant.

Otherwise, pretty good.

Honoured Ambassador, what in the name of all that is holy is " High School level Reading" and what on earth is "High School level Math" ? What indeed is a "High School" ?

Which " Federal Government" is the respected Ambassador talking about and why are they legislating for this particular "Federal Government" and not the entire w.a. ?


Why should any nation force its young people to learn things they do not wish to learn at the exspense of gaining knowledge they actually wish to know about?

Why should any of this be done en masse as though young people were universally the same and capable of being treated like trained animals and not as individuals with personal desires and interests which should be treated with the same respect as other groups within society?

yours e.t.c. ,

Upon consideration, we agree with the delegate from Urgench. Our own dictionary provides the following definitions, which we suspect are not what the author means:

Federal government- a bunch of drug-using hobos fooling whatever nation supporting them into thinking they actually care about it and are not spending that nation's money on alcohol and prostitutes.

High school- Educational facility for training the nobility in how to run the respective business or businesses that their House owns.

We personally would not mind a federal government having to educate their citizens to our standards, but that's us.

Forensatha, your help on this resolution has been extremely helpful, i thank you. the last point, that you say is redundant, will remain there only because i believe we should finally establish it directly with a final sentence to make the intentions of this bill known to all nations.

also, i didn't even know that some nations practiced magic. Note that i wrote "The government set up guidelines and a minimum education system in which all schools must abide. Including but not limited to:". So i'm not limiting it to those specific classes. If magic is what a nation teaches than it still will be able to.

I will include a proper definition of Federal Government in the resolution to make sure everyone understands what i am talking about.

i will also define the highschool provisions i spoke about.

i hope my changes will make this proposal more acceptable.

With all due respect,

Honored Ambassador of Urgench, i believe you have misunderstood my bill.

in most of my provisions, I have the bare minimum followed up by "but not limited to". So you can continue to teach the youth of your country in whatever way you already do. Just with a bare minimum.
are you saying that the youth shouldn't learn how to read? or write? or about the world around them? I personally believe they are vital for the survival of the kids. If i had to choose what i wanted to learn from when i was a kid, i wouldn't have gotten very far when it comes to intelligence, and (with all due respect) neither would you or anyone else in here.

I will include a proper definition of Federal Government in the resolution to make sure everyone understands what i am talking about.

i will also define the highschool provisions i spoke about.

i hope my changes will make this proposal more acceptable.



You may define "Federal Government" as you wish, respected Ambassador, but if you intend this definition to include every member state of this organisation then we will object in the strongest possible terms to it.

The government of the Emperor of Urgench rules in the name of his Divine Majesty the Emperor over and empire of excedingly heterogeneous nature, it includes Imperial Crown lands, Autonomous States and Autonomous Regions many of these last two have special constitutional relationships with the Empire.

Our nation is one of a multiplicity of different nations in this organisation with a myriad of different constitutional arrangements and natures, we are sure we will not be in the minority in objecting in the most strenuous of terms at having our government arbitrarily re-defined as "Federal" .

Our objection to the primitive educational theories which motivate this resolution remain unchanged.

yours e.t.c. ,

With all due respect,

Honored Ambassador of Urgench, i believe you have misunderstood my bill.

in most of my provisions, I have the bare minimum followed up by "but not limited to". So you can continue to teach the youth of your country in whatever way you already do. Just with a bare minimum.
are you saying that the youth shouldn't learn how to read? or write? or about the world around them? I personally believe they are vital for the survival of the kids. If i had to choose what i wanted to learn from when i was a kid, i wouldn't have gotten very far when it comes to intelligence, and (with all due respect) neither would you or anyone else in here.



Please do not patronise us respected Ambassador, your own national system of education may be adequate for a less advanced society, but our system has worked extremely well for us for nearly 1200 years.

As a child the honoured Ambassador may well have chosen ignorance instead of knowledge that is none of our concern. The narrow nature of their conception of educational best practice suggests that the educational system of Wachichi is not all it should be. Therefore we find it outrageous that the honoured Ambassador should seek to foist their nations unfortunate preconceptions on the rest of the world Assembly.

We suggest that the honoured Ambassador research the nature and theories of education better before they bring misguided education statutes before this body, and even more importantly research the very varied nature of the civilisations which comprise this organisation before trying to legislate for it.


yours e.t.c. ,

It is the fervent believe of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites that decisions regarding educational systems should be made at the lowest possible level. To that end, we vehemently oppose this attempt by the WA to usurp that authority.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

actually, the educational system in my nation is envied by other states because of a massive campaign to improve the system. It became the "envy of the nations" because we were so ahead of the game.

perhaps, i should replace "Federal Government" with simply "government" to make the proposal more flexible toward more nations who don't have a central governing power.

Do you imagine that the actual term for a central governing power is " Federal Government" and not simply "Government" respected Ambassador?

yours e.t.c ,

well, Federal government could imply a higher power, Some states don't have that but instead have several leading bodies. so in those powers, government would be more appropriate than Federal government. I just believe the word Federal would or might alienate nations. Do you disagree, respected Ambassador?

well, Federal government could imply a higher power, Some states don't have that but instead have several leading bodies. so in those powers, government would be more appropriate than Federal government. I just believe the word Federal would or might alienate nations. Do you disagree, respected Ambassador?



The entire point that we have endeavoured to make to you, respected Ambassador, is that the term "Federal Government" refers to a very specific form of government with a specific consitutional makeup.

The word "Government" is the most universal term which describes a vast array of forms of organised rule. It would be the only term the honoured Ambassador's resolution could use to accurately describe all the different types of governance which exist within this organisation.


yours e.t.c. ,

well, Federal government could imply a higher power, Some states don't have that but instead have several leading bodies. so in those powers, government would be more appropriate than Federal government. I just believe the word Federal would or might alienate nations. Do you disagree, respected Ambassador?

I think just 'nation' or 'government' would work fine. To specify a type of government will alienate other types of government. For each Federal Government you have, you're likely to have nine other kinds of government. Rutianas would be one of those nine others. Not that we would take offense, but we wouldn't like being referred to as having a Federal Government. We have an Emperor who is also a General in the Rutianas Military. We do not have a Federal Government.

Also, I don't think that having 'several leading bodies' as being described as 'government' being more appropriate would be correct. Again, taking Rutianas for example. We have one leading body. Literally.

thank you for your input, respected Ambassador, i will make the neccessary changes. Is there anything else you feel should be amended in order to make this resolution pass to vote at the world assembly? anything that should be changed in order to not alienate certain nations?

thank you.

Respected Ambassador, the entire resolution is grounded in a specific and parochial conception of education. In order to make this resolution viable it must be aware that not every nation has the same education system or even an equivalent one to that of the respected Amassador's own nation.

If they honoured Ambassador really wants our advice they should either restrict this resolution to one which obligates member states to pay for a basic but undefined level of education or they should drop the entire project entirely and leave this kind of thing to the wisdom and good sense of national parliaments.

We say this because their are certain subjects which because of the unique detail of their nature cannot effectively be dealt with at an international level.

The resolution at vote already guarantees children the right to an education, this is perfectly sufficient and appropriate for an international law anything more detailed than this risks falling foul of the very great diversity of cultural and social conditions which exist in this organisation.


yours sincerely,

Respected Ambassador,

the entire resolution follows the basic belief in limited government control over education. This type of belief goes hand in hand with your own educational system. It gives individual schools the flexibility to choose what courses they supply based on their learning consituency, and the area, nation, or tribal land they are in. All they have to do is teach the bare minimum. I put a minimum to limit government control over schools, especially private ones. Not to enlargen it's power.

with all due respect, i think you have mischaracterized the proposal and should try to understand my interpretation of it.

How you interpret it is of no account respected Ambassador, it is what the resolution actually is in totality that counts. We will say this again, the education system of Urgench is not what we are specifically concerned about ( though its contrast with the system you outline is infact stark since we do not have a national schools system in which we would be prepared to instistitute this resolution ) but the fact that there are nations who use systems of education which are so radically different from the conceptions common even between our nations as to make this resolution completely anchronistic in their contexts. these nations are very numerous and are deserving of as much respect as nations which use systems analogous to the respected Ambassador's nation.

yours e.t.c. ,

so in essence, this proposal should me much broader? respected Ambassador? in order to accomodate all educational systems? or the lack there off one?

so in essence, this proposal should me much broader? respected Ambassador? in order to accomodate all educational systems? or the lack there off one?

Personally, I'd like to see it tackle reading, writing, and mathematics. On a basic level. I think it needs to be narrowed down. Most people, I hope, have a basic understanding of reading, writing, and mathematics. I know how to read, write, and I comprehend that two and two are four. Granted, I can't do complex mathematics without a pencil and paper and a giant eraser, but I never took high level math classes, which I believe would be the equivalent of your high school mathematics. It's simply not taught except for university, and even then, only required by certain majors. Political Science, fortunately, was not one of them.

If you keep the requirements basic, and urge governments to expand on it, you might find more support.

i'll consider some changes.

Personally, I'd like to see it tackle reading, writing, and mathematics. On a basic level. I think it needs to be narrowed down. Most people, I hope, have a basic understanding of reading, writing, and mathematics. I know how to read, write, and I comprehend that two and two are four. Granted, I can't do complex mathematics without a pencil and paper and a giant eraser, but I never took high level math classes, which I believe would be the equivalent of your high school mathematics. It's simply not taught except for university, and even then, only required by certain majors. Political Science, fortunately, was not one of them.

If you keep the requirements basic, and urge governments to expand on it, you might find more support.



This would be a more universally acceptable approach we imagine. If this resolution set basic levels of funding in congruance with national wealth for education and required government oversight of private education to insure good practice and commited member states to active and constructive approaches to education then we would be able to support it.

However the honoured Ambassador for Wachichi should not be deceived by the support or otherwise of those nations which choose to make their voices heard within these walls. Invariably it is nations with a positive attitude towards international statutory remedy which make themselves heard here or their polar opposites. What this demographic so to speak does not do is truelly elucidate the full spectrum of national character and philosophy of government or culture which makes up the generality of this organisation, therefore unless a statute is of the most supreme and transcendant moral nature it cannot afford to be too narrow in conception.

We would agree that formal education ( by which we mean instruction in the three Rs and similar subjects ) is of paramount importance to human societies and in helping them flourish but we would stop short of saying that it is a basic human right. Indeed it is a socio-cultural phenomenon which has arrisen in certain societies and not others, not to mention the huge array of non-human sapients who's nations are members of this organisation and who's societies may be so radically different that they are outside of traditional terms and concepts of human education all together.

Therefore a statute dealing with education should be as subtle and broad minded as possible in order that the greatest number of societies and cultures may benefit from its good remonstrances.


yours sincerely,

Thank you respected Ambassador,

i am already on the drawing boards of another educational proposal. This one is much broader. Allowing each nation to have it's own individual educational system, and realizing that an international educational system won't be efficient because nations vary in intelligence...etc. i still would have some basic things like the necessity of the youth to know how to read, speak, and write in their native language along with some basic math concepts. But i didn't bother going into more detail such as the sciences. and the high school level. would such a bill gain your or anyone elses support?

We are concerned that this proposal, in our estimation, does not take into account the varying educational systems of member states and attempts to force them into a "one size fits all" sort of model.

We also have concern about interference in our educational system. Specifically, this clause:

7. The federal government can never take over any private school without adequate reason.
(a) a private school is doing something unlawful
(b) a private school is contributing to some illegal practice

The very existence of private schools (with the exception of those operated in diplomatic enclaves or embassies) is illegal in the Altan Steppes. Exactly how does this proposal affect our existing law? By our interpretation, since such schools are illegal, we'd be entirely justified in taking over any private school in the Federation, period (which we can already do). Therefore, this proposal really wouldn't do a thing for us at all, except open our educational system to WA interference.

-Irina Misheli, Deputy Ambassador

well, it says that government may take control over the school because of illegal practices.

also, note that i'm drawing up a broader and less restrictive bill which will allow you to interpret it and apply it to your country without restrictions.

I will eventually post up that proposal. It will be called The Educational Act of 2008. Look for that bill soon when it's posted and feel free to make amendments...etc.

I would also have recognition that some nations do not have private education, having no allowances for it. Rutianas is one of those. All education is free. From our early education through to university and beyond. Also, you might consider home schooling as well. Make sure that children who are home schooled also learn the basics. It will be hard to regulate home schooling, but it can be done.

Rutianas does this by making certain the person who is doing the home schooling is qualified. Anyone may attend classes in our universities to qualify them to home school a child. With that qualification, we feel better that our children are learning at least the basics. Of course, we don't like home schooling, but sometimes it is necessary. I'm not saying that is the best way to handle it, but that is what we do.

everyone hear, be prepared, i am putting the final touches to my new educational resolution.

as you might realize, i am trying to create a sort of educational resolution for the world that can encompass every nation. Education is a dear thing to me so i will continue to push for such resolutions. By the end of this messege i will have already deleted the resolution stated in this forum. The newer bill has more progress in it, and (as expected, the other plan didn't get enough support). your criticism has helped develop this newer resolution.

you can find it under The Education Act of 2008 for debate and amendments. thank you.

everyone hear, be prepared, i am putting the final touches to my new educational resolution.

as you might realize, i am trying to create a sort of educational resolution for the world that can encompass every nation. Education is a dear thing to me so i will continue to push for such resolutions. By the end of this messege i will have already deleted the resolution stated in this forum. The newer bill has more progress in it, and (as expected, the other plan didn't get enough support). your criticism has helped develop this newer resolution.

you can find it under The Education Act of 2008 for debate and amendments. thank you.

Hopefully it will have correct grammar and spelling unlike this post of yours.

it's simply me typing fast.