NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello I am a first time poster long time member of the UN and current member of the WA. I have tried to introduce important legislation 3 times and I have been unsucessful.And I have begun to get fustrated because there are six pages of proposals and 70% of these proposals are garbage and yet most good pieces of legislation only manage to get about 50 or so approvals when 96 approvals are needed.Now something needs to be done either the number of approvals needed should be decreased or the number of endorsements needed to propose legislation needs to be in increased to 10 or more.I think increasing the number of endorsements needed to propose legislation would be effective because most of the nations proposing garbage legislation such as "Abolishment of Strip Clubs" have 10 or less endorsements.I'd like to know if anyone else feels this way?:confused::mad:

Have you considered posting a draft of your proposal here, editing it as needed, and then going forward with it? That process can take several weeks, but it results in reasonably good proposals.

I was considering it since Im having little or no success with getting anything through.But really even if I get my proposal through there is still a problem with the way our proposal system works.

Posting a great proposal isn't enough. You have to campaign for it. Almost every successful resolution was accompanied by a telegram campaign.

This is a game of politics, and politics is a game of people. Ideas aren't enough - you have to convince the people.


(Oh, and added punctuation always makes statements more true!!!!!!11!!!!!one!!11! )

The fact that a proposal you haven't posted for comment and redrafting has failed to reach quorum is a sign that the proposal system is working. It's meant to be hard to pass a law: otherwise, people would pass stupid crap, or not put any effort in.

Still there are too many junk propositions something has to be done about them.

Uh...something is. They fail to reach quorum. Which is exactly as it should be.

Two days before the Intelligentsia Islands got a new WA delegate. She got an headache to read so many crap proposals and she made a campaign so I became again WA delegate.
So I am glad that most proposals doesn't reach the floor, that part is working. But it is a shame for the WA (not for the delegate I mentioned) that a good WA delegate rather reads Duck tales than most of the proposals here. But I do not see a remedy. Even if there were more endorsements necessary lots of crap would come. And to change the amount of endorsements, that is games mechanics.
I am happy most bad proposals are short or doesn't propose anything, so it is easy to decide if I want to approve them. I tried to translate them automatically to Dutch, the language I know far better, but the result was worse, most of them became even harder to read....

Hello I am a first time poster long time member of the UN and current member of the WA.Welcome to the maddnes

I have tried to introduce important legislation 3 times and I have been unsucessful.Everyone here thinks they have important legislation but find it junk.. when they bring it here and let others see their important legislation before it goes to the junk pile to be voted on.

And I have begun to get fustrated because there are six pages of proposals and 70% of these proposals are garbage and yet most good pieces of legislation only manage to get about 50 or so approvals when 96 approvals are needed.What is garbage to one is treasure to others and that is why things are as they are.

Now something needs to be done either the number of approvals needed should be decreased or the number of endorsements needed to propose legislation needs to be in increased to 10 or more.I think increasing the number of endorsements needed to propose legislation would be effective because most of the nations proposing garbage legislationThe sytem works leave it be don't go changing it now... leave it working

such as "Abolishment of Strip Clubs" have 10 or less endorsements.And at some point yours would have less than ten and may never get that many... since you consider this garbage maybe fewer than ten see it also as such... and have like you not endorsed it..

I'd like to know if anyone else feels this way?:confused::mad:Have a drink relax it gets better after two if the drink is a good one.

Again welcome to the maddness....


ZW

As another long time UN and now WA member I would have to disagree, I think the system doesn’t work as it stands now. Ironically my argument is 180 degrees from that of Holenland. The fact is that on rare occasions crap does get through the system; stuff that should be thrown out for blatant violations but gets approved before a moderator can delete it from the queue.

I realize that there will never be any more coding changes to NS (not with NS 2 going into beta and eventually online). But if there was a change I would add a state before the proposal goes into the “to be voted” queue that required a moderator signoff so that illegal proposals could not get into the queue where the moderators could then conveniently shrug their shoulders and wash their hands of it.

But that is never going to happen.

As another long time UN and now WA member I would have to disagree, I think the system doesn’t work as it stands now. Ironically my argument is 180 degrees from that of Holenland. The fact is that on rare occasions crap does get through the system; stuff that should be thrown out for blatant violations but gets approved before a moderator can delete it from the queue.And exactly how many times has that happened? Between the UN and the WA there have been over 268 resolutions passed and I don't know how many that reached quorum and were defeated, and I can only think of one time where a blatently illegal resolution slipped past the mods (that time being Max Barry Day). That tells me that the system works.

I realize that there will never be any more coding changes to NS (not with NS 2 going into beta and eventually online).
Not necessarily. NS2 has a different development team. NS1 still has [violet], SalusaSecondus and Pythagasaurus looking after it. While development for NS1 may have slowed down a lot, it's not necessarily dead.

I can only think of one time where a blatently illegal resolution slipped past the mods (that time being Max Barry Day).

Both Hack and I were on holiday that weekend. Oops. Now Ardchoille is also a Game Mod, and Dicey can keep an eye on things as well, assuming we can pull her out of the Stranger's Bar on occasion.

I think there were a couple more, including Passport Harmonization back in 2004, plus the ones that preceded the actual Proposal Rules. All of those were stripped when we moved the site.

That tells me that the system works.
You are correct, sir. Adding a moderation queue wouldn't help unless we checked it, which is the same thing we do now. Besides, you lot are quick to point out (via Getting Help) potential illegal proposals that are nearing quorum. That's the best system we could possibly have - the General Assembly looking after its own.

Now Ardchoille is also a Game Mod, and Dicey can keep an eye on things as well, assuming we can pull her out of the Stranger's Bar on occasion.


Look, I know Dicey's a recidivist, but she hasn't done anything criminal enough to deserve that!

Well, not lately ...

Well, not that you know about ...

Not necessarily. NS2 has a different development team. NS1 still has [violet], SalusaSecondus and Pythagasaurus looking after it. While development for NS1 may have slowed down a lot, it's not necessarily dead.

That's good to know. I was under the impression (even before NS2 was a confirmed event and still just a discussion) that no program changes for NS1 was ever going to be made. As long as someone is still looking at the code all is right with the world.

Both Hack and I were on holiday that weekend. Oops. Now Ardchoille is also a Game Mod, and Dicey can keep an eye on things as well, assuming we can pull her out of the Stranger's Bar on occasion.

I think there were a couple more, including Passport Harmonization back in 2004, plus the ones that preceded the actual Proposal Rules. All of those were stripped when we moved the site.

Yes and while I think I did post a couple of B&M posts at the time, I've gotten better (really) about it and of course these things happen. I also seem to recall a couple of ones that were not blatent but would have been deleted by you had you caught them in time, but off hand I can't recall which ones they were and whether they eventually passed.

You are correct, sir. Adding a moderation queue wouldn't help unless we checked it, which is the same thing we do now. Besides, you lot are quick to point out (via Getting Help) potential illegal proposals that are nearing quorum. That's the best system we could possibly have - the General Assembly looking after its own.

My biggest condern is someone abusing the system, figuring out mod patterns and trying to stealth slam in an illegal proposal by doing it quickly enough that it reaches qorum before any mods even knows its there.

My biggest condern is someone abusing the system, figuring out mod patterns and trying to stealth slam in an illegal proposal by doing it quickly enough that it reaches qorum before any mods even knows its there.That's more than a little difficult to manage. Again, in "modern" history, that's only happened with Max Barry Day, which was almost instantly repealed.

Of course, the best way to prevent "stealth slams" is to have a stock of well written Proposals already in the queue...

Look, I know Dicey's a recidivist, but she hasn't done anything criminal enough to deserve that!

Well, not lately ...

Well, not that you know about ...

*(tickle, tickle)*

The fact that a proposal you haven't posted for comment and redrafting has failed to reach quorum is a sign that the proposal system is working. It's meant to be hard to pass a law: otherwise, people would pass stupid crap, or not put any effort in.

What's funny is some of what has been passed is on the same level as the "stupid crap".

What's funny is some of what has been passed is on the same level as the "stupid crap".

Care to provide examples, or are you just talking out of your ass?