NationStates Jolt Archive

Fair Criminal Trial [Official Topic]

The Narnian Council
12-04-2008, 02:14
Well...reached quorum: nearly at vote. Unless for some totally unforeseen reason it's swiftly deleted!

Fair Criminal Trial

Category: Furtherment of Democracy

Strength: Significant

Proposed by: The Narnian Council


REALIZING that the right to a fair trial isn't mandated by international law.

UNDERSTANDING the World Assembly’s responsibility to provide an evenhanded judicial system for all citizens of every member nation.

ESTABLISHING the principles of impartial Criminal Trial legal procedures that each and every member nation will be held answerable to.


1. A detained or imprisoned person shall have the right to be visited by and to correspond with, in particular, members of his/her family and shall be given adequate opportunity to communicate with the outside world, subject to reasonable conditions and restrictions as specified by law or lawful regulations.
2. In the knowledge of the importance of impartiality in Pre-Trial procedures, those responsible for the detainment of the arrested must provide sanitary conditions and basic living needs for the arrested.
i) “Basic living needs" includes, but is not limited to, access to toilets/showers, and enough food, water, shelter and rest to keep the arrested in his/her normal healthy state.
4. The arrested has the right to know the charges pressed against him/her, and/or the reason of the arrest within 24 hours after being arrested.
5. All persons are entitled to call upon the assistance of a lawyer of their choice to protect and establish their rights and to defend them in all stages of criminal proceedings.


1. The accused must be granted, without discrimination, the right of equal access to a court.
2. The accused has the right to a trial without undue delay.
i) “Undue delay" is defined as being applicable between the time the accused is arrested, and the time when the judgment is passed – and refers to any negligence on the part of the prosecutor/defendant in the gathering of evidence and/or on the part court in administering the case. This will depend on the circumstances of a case, which includes, but is not limited to, the case’s complexity, and the conduct of the accused and/or the authorities.
3. The accused has the right to a fair and impartial hearing.
4. The accused has the right to a public hearing.
5. The accused has the right to a competent and impartial tribunal - independent from the involved parties and established by law - that exercises both procedural and adjudicatorial fairness.
6. The accused has the right to adequate time, that is, enough time to have access to evidence according to the complexity of the case, and adequate facilities, that is, the accused and defense counsel must be granted appropriate information, files and documents necessary for the preparation of a defense and that the defendant must be provided with facilities enabling communication, in confidentiality, with the defense counsel.
7. The accused has the right to defend oneself in person or through legal counsel.
8. The accused has the right to examine, if the witness consents, or to have examined, the witness.
9. The accused has the right to understand the proceedings and to be understood through means of an interpreter translating in his/her native form of communication.
10. The accused has the right not to incriminate him/herself.
11. No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed
12. The accused may waive any of the above rights.

Approvals: 110


CoN Lord Chancellor
Delegate of The Council of Narnia
The Narnian Council
12-04-2008, 02:14
The concept of a Fair Trial is a complicated one, and due to the restrictions of the word limit, this proposal makes reference to the sole concept of a Fair Criminal Trial. The concept of an appeal, and Civil Trial (and the absurdly complicated issue of compensation) are more suited to be elaborated on in deeper detail in their own resolutions.

As for the issue of torture, which has been brought to my attention a few times, I might as well explain here. Any mention of the prohibition of this would wander into a different category, and would risk the deletion of the entire proposal - as expressed by one of the game mods. In any case, the general prohibition of torture in any situation is far more deserving of its own resolution.

As it stands, however, 'Fair Criminal Trial' will lay down the first WA foundation of the 'fair' legal system - and will mandate, in far more descriptive terms than has been previously written in the UN, what it means to support sincere, impartial justice.

*Gives the floor to ambassadors of The WA General Assembly*


CoN Lord Chancellor
Delegate of The Council of Narnia
12-04-2008, 02:36
Well...reached quorum: nearly at vote. Unless for some totally unforeseen reason it's swiftly deleted!...or if another fair trial proposal ( hits quorum before tonight's update...

Your text is a bit disjointed, at least from a style point of view. Your preamble is just a few sentence fragments (usually these "BELIEVING," "ACKNOWLEDGING," etc., statements are modified by the words "The World Assembly ... hereby enacts the following etc. etc."). That doesn't necessarily mean the Federal Republic will oppose.

Best of luck.
12-04-2008, 02:46
Scratching his chin slowly, Tom Marvolo arrives at the...well, whatever the Assembly is using as a podium.

"Well, this proposal isn't exactly the greatest prose, but it seems to cover the basics of the trial preceedings. We agree with the decision to limit it simply to the trial...and we will support this resolution to the fullest."
12-04-2008, 07:01
If I am correct, then this should have an effect on any criminal trials against any party/parties in all WA member nations.
Should that be so, Subistratica will be voting against this proposal, as we shall not have our judicial methods dictated by a without governing body.
The Popotan
12-04-2008, 07:17
The Popotan still feels section 4 would allow some nation to blab about about a bunch of sensative intelligence at a public hearing


The Popotan believes that pandering to media by both the prosecution and defense could have undue impact on a court's ruling. Humans are not immune others opinions and as such public opinion could adversely affect either side.
12-04-2008, 07:35
...or if another fair trial proposal ( hits quorum before tonight's update...This could be trouble:

Approvals: 108 (South Oceana, Starman Deluxe, Anarchy works, The Derrak Quadrant, Digalia, Kotire, Jake and Elwood Blues, Borickio, South Lorenya, Bisoldom, Trussardshire, Shangri La-La-La, WZ Forums, The Digital Network, Charlotte Ryberg, Senam, Mikkeroonia, The Artic Republics, WA Resolution Keeper, Ventei, Misplaced States, Cordova I, Mandlandia, Torkaria, Neo Liverpool, Brazykystan, Motor Racing, Santa clauses8, Brabantia Borealis, Spaz Land, Boom Shacka, MaxisLand, Bibliotecia, Aatesio, The rabid platypuses, Black Empire, Cocoa Puffy, Alos, Ducaliantia, Tarmsden, Fabingrad, Pink basketballs, United Kana, Forriastor, Maxtoria, Sark813, The Shu Han, United Anacreon, Cullandia, Paradica, Sancte Michael, SkillCrossbones, Cool Hippies, Euleos, Wigeon, Scotworld, Graalium, Arpsammus, Eiga-Baka, The Seniors of Zion, Coruscant Alliance, Gina Toscano, Tilgate, Clarka854, Adamborough, Merapi, Glenlogan, New Grammaria, Pakstania, Paulikistan, Trevorsaurous, Frennierstan, Rastri, Rantchess, Pagemaster, Os Mutantes, Panageadom, Dolvaria, Nova Nova Roma, Al-bali-ba-la, Wooderacy, Gordelphia, Slices Right, Serpientus, Jacko-funland, Dinkerstan, Westmar, Rykkland, Creosalvus, Nilla Jim, Aquamarine, Southern Realm, Adams Apartment, The North Union, Turkiye Universalis, COMUNI, Blackbird, Melaenis, Technoviking, Roddyville, Althzakar, Enjuekk, Gilliganstan, New Byzanteria, Arranthor, Dlefsrednas, Paragus, Groove st)

Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue!A lot of these approvers probably did so under the impression that they were approving your fair trial proposal; even so, if this one doesn't lose at least four approvals at tonight's update, it will go to vote, not yours. Which will create more problems if it passes, since it will probably deem your proposal an illegal duplication.
Charlotte Ryberg
12-04-2008, 07:59
Sorry, but I'm out because how I deal with criminals is not to be influenced by media organizations. OOC: that might be why the attitudes towards the McCanns are so distorted now. Plus, victims need protection.

BTW, it's at vote now.
12-04-2008, 07:59
*checks the actual proposal and the title of this thread*

It would seem the fears were well founded; the similar-themed proposal jumped ahead of yours. I'm sure this will be marked down as one of the odder events in the UN/WA's history.

This could be trouble:

Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue!

A lot of these approvers probably did so under the impression that they were approving your fair trial proposal; even so, if this one doesn't lose at least four approvals at tonight's update, it will go to vote, not yours. Which will create more problems if it passes, since it will probably deem your proposal an illegal duplication.

Actually, it would appear many delegates Approved both proposals. I find that amusing and exasperating all at once.

The next question is, do we vote for or against the one that is ACTUALLY at vote?
Charlotte Ryberg
12-04-2008, 08:27
Wow, I'm I seeing double? One resolution in quorum while being at vote at the same time? (Rubs her eyes in disbelief)
Wierd Anarchists
12-04-2008, 09:06
We are in favor of a fair trial. But we see no need in a jury.
(Not that we are against citizens, but we know from experience that citizens choose more on emotions than on facts. I do think that people who judge a suposed criminal need a good education, to understand the laws and how to judge the evidence.)

In a lot of democratic countries they have no jury. Do we think trials there are not fair?

I believe that trials in the Netherlands, where there is no jury in trials, are more fair than in the the biggest democracy in North America. In the Netherlands they do not give death penalties to people who are not guilty. (There is no death penalty in the Netherlands.)

So the Weird Anarchists will vote against this fair trial resolution.

We wait for a better resolution.

Delegate of Intelligentsia Islands
The Narnian Council
12-04-2008, 09:44
Ouch. Thats quite disappointing. South Oceana's 'Fair Trial' has gone up for vote.

I had assumed that the mechanics behind 'in queue' stacked each proposal in order of the time they reached quorum - mine reached it first. However, like you mentioned Kenny, it seems that its determined by who submitted theirs first...South Oceana's had submitted their proposal to the WA - a few hours earlier. The approvers wouldn't have gotten confused between mine and the other - I included a link in the advert telegram.

We do offer our congratulations to South Oceana, but this is not to say that we aren't quite deflated. Unless Oceana's proposal fails to pass, which I doubt will happen, ours will most certainly be deleted on grounds of duplication. This is an odd event in the WA indeed - but nonetheless disappointing.

Anyway, it was worth the shot. We'll just have to work on a fresh topic!

(We don't want to steal the glory from Oceana - so this thread should be moved down).


CoN Lord Chancellor
Delegate of the Council of Narnia
12-04-2008, 10:00
it is the right of a sovereign power to have dissenters and traitors and those who infringe the civil rights of others taken round the back of the parliment biulding and summarily executed

I mean whats the point of being a power crazed ruler if you cant have your enemies boiled alive in oil :headbang:
Skimpy Underwear
12-04-2008, 11:13
Oh, what a c***-up. This proposal is SO much better than the one that's actually up for vote. For example, this one would give all defendants the rightto a jury trial - the one up for vote mandates that every criminal trial must have a judge and jury. (Never heard of magistrates?) Surely something can be done?
12-04-2008, 13:37
The Dominion of ka-Spel will be voting against this bill on the grounds that it places unnecessary restrictions on the nations, whom are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves the specifics of how the idea of a "right to a fair trial" should be handled. The idea is nice, but not in this form.

However, the people of ka-Spel urge members of the WA to submit another bill addressing this topic, should this particular bill fail to pass (which is looking unlikely, admittedly.)
Holy Freedom land
12-04-2008, 14:08
This Act really show that the one of the WA's goals is Justice for all.

I vote for this act.
12-04-2008, 15:51
I'm voting down the resolution at vote believing that it cuts a little too deep into are respective governments. The world govnering body should not be able to dictate how we treat the criminals only WE have to deal with...

(The following is completely irrelevant but..)
Hey! is this like the BIOGUN from Unreal Tournament?
Quintessence of Dust
12-04-2008, 20:16
Bad luck! We certainly prefer this one, and hope it will some day see the light of day.
12-04-2008, 21:38
The approvers wouldn't have gotten confused between mine and the other - I included a link in the advert telegram.I'm almost afraid to ask: what link did you include? Because if it contained the search words "fair" or "trial" or both, it would have brought your contacts to their proposal, since it was first on the list. This is especially a problem with repeals, since you can't change the title. If someone else has submitted a repeal of the same resolution before you, it pretty much kills a TG campaign.

EDIT: Speaking of repeals, a repeal of the resolution currently at vote seems like a good idea...
The Narnian Council
12-04-2008, 21:55
Actually it was this link:

With the word "Criminal" in it, there's no way that nations could have been directed to the wrong proposal.

A repeal of the proposal at vote? Nasty business indeed...would it even be worth the effort?


CoN Lord Chancellor
Delegate of The Council of Narnia
12-04-2008, 23:43
With the word "Criminal" in it, there's no way that nations could have been directed to the wrong proposal.

Once you get delegates visiting the proposal page, they tend to approve several proposals while there. During the original UN TG campaign for my Rights and Duties, three adjacent (and totally undeserving) proposals also made quorum. I've blamed myself for being too eloquent for several years now.
The Narnian Council
13-04-2008, 12:11
Well Frisbeeteria, I guess I can now relate with you! Such is the WA. Nearly half the voters for the rival proposal have voted against...there's a chance it may catch up.

I am grateful that many deem my proposal more suitable - but in reality all we can do is urge however many friends we know to vote against the current proposal in favor of the one in queue...


CoN Lord Chancellor
UN Delegate of The Council of Narnia
The Dourian Embassy
13-04-2008, 21:20
A repeal of the proposal at vote? Nasty business indeed...would it even be worth the effort?

*George Willing cackles maniacally*

Yes, I... I believe it would be...

Assuming you're willing to put your proposal up as a replacement piece, I can try a repeal of that a few resolutions down the road. Up to you, and a bit premature, but hell why not talk about it now? This is the WA, not the UN, this stuff isn't going to stand for years before it's taken care of. I hope.

Your's is a much better piece of legislation, and I've never clung to the concept that anything is better than nothing. Especially when we have to deal with duplication rules.
The Narnian Council
13-04-2008, 23:31
*Raises eyebrows*

Check your telegram inbox, Mr. George Willing.


CoN Lord Chancellor
Delegate of The Council of Narnia
15-04-2008, 06:38
If we are lucky the other proposal will fail, otherwise we will need to repeal it. This model is far more workable.
15-04-2008, 20:20
we do agree some what a fair trail is important but understand we believe in aiore the age of legal liability is 10 for serious crimes
16-04-2008, 19:45
The other one passed. Sorry, gotta take yours down.

Here's your approvals:
Approvals: 174 (The Derrak Quadrant, The Narnian Council, Quintessence of Dust, Anarchy works, Jake and Elwood Blues, South Lorenya, Troon, Shangri La-La-La, WZ Forums, Nikolaos The Great, Bibliotecia, Dragonhellfire, The Digital Network, Shafft, Karbea, Jorvik gods, Eco-Gangstas, Senam, Homieville, Mikkeroonia, The Artic Republics, Ventei, Pinakaka, Misplaced States, Daehanguk, Golugan, Waterana, Cordova I, Arpsammus, Dinkerstan, Neo Liverpool, Decapod Ten, Kabanatuanistan, Freedom Territories, Pagemaster, Paragus, Brazykystan, Stephanephpolis, Santa clauses8, Dokta, Groove st, Brabantia Borealis, 12 Gods, MaxisLand, Soldnerism, The rabid platypuses, Black Empire, Pannettiere, Ithilis, Ducaliantia, Belarum, Comnemnus, Tarmsden, Rosmnia, Slacktonovich, Pink basketballs, Tyrace, United Kana, Forriastor, Maxtoria, Dellfi, Vexic, Cullandia, Cahuilla, Travda, Gilliganstan, Rastri, Sancte Michael, TheBPOE, Euleos, Corrupted Countries, Taxman_NO, Mighty Jah Jah, Ztarullia, Wigeon, Graalium, Eiga-Baka, The Seniors of Zion, Alzonia, Tilgate, Dewachen, Adamborough, Glenlogan, Girvis, Paulikistan, Trevorsaurous, Chickenstate, Azerbajerkistan, Kaelere, Os Mutantes, Balyma, Dolvaria, Nova Nova Roma, Paradiszian Embassy, Slices Right, Enyaat, Brunelian BG advocates, Likititi, Indian Gangs, Anduz, Blackbird, Oshanla, Leocardia, Acropolis of Athens, John Morrison-, Former Arizona, Tatarica, Darsolopia, Veltia, Top Gunners, Julianus Apostata, Warsaw and Poland, Keydude, Panageadom, Borickio, Koshlandia, South Oceana, Pimpland TCK, Duffys Beertopia, Technoviking, Antigony, TiredFaith, E F A, Rantchess, Costello Music, Laak, Merapi, Crimmond, Scififanaticz, Aniwa-ya, Jajistan, Nilla Jim, The Talisman, Finnish Pride, Spilt-Milk, Psycotia Island, Intelligenstan, Nokvok, Adams Apartment, Ulquiorra and Schiggly, Sark813, Jibrilchan, New Old New New York, Istrians, Blahminia, Kiracakstan, Fabingrad, Kaiser William the 4th, Jonas Brothers, Feargill, Gray Army, Gina Toscano, 12 Colonies of Kobol, Gordelphia, Skyroof, Vacuus Verum, Yangoon, Saphiragaesia, Norwedenland, Aarbearica, Old James Town, FLPM, WuWest, Serpientus, Sensual delights, Marion Oaks 2, Turkiye Universalis, Squirrlyton, Judiewisk, Wierd Anarchists, Algal states, Bourgenstein, Afternoon Tea Parties, Colonial Timocria)

Status: Quorum Reached: In Queue!
16-04-2008, 19:51
Damn. :(
Charlotte Ryberg
16-04-2008, 19:56
Oh crumbs!
The Dourian Embassy
16-05-2008, 08:31
In the spirit of using this as a replacement, I'd like to issue one request, can we switch 24 hours in Pretrial 4 to something a bit more generic? 24 hours is very earth/human specific.