NationStates Jolt Archive

In an effort to improve the lot of humanity and avert the crisis of global warming,we motion that ALL UN member states should prodce at least 20% of their energy by renewable means.

(Occ) Any thoughts?

Hayden Seigfried cleared his throat. "The first obstacle you will come across in response to your proposal is colloquially termed in Catawaba WWTTWD?, or What Will The Third World Do? It will be argued that many developing nations might not be able achieve even that small percentage of green energy."

He shook his head. "That however is not Catawaba's objection. We refuse to support any proposal that uses Chicken Little warnings of global warming as its sole reasoning. Catawaba will be persuing energy by renewable resources for economic reasons, but for not for any notion or impetus deriving from global warming."

King Fotar will strongly oppose any UN resolution that attempts to pass legislation based on the global warming hoax, this proposal included. Period the end.
_________________
Fotar,
~King of the Narnian Kingdom of Fotar
~Vice-Chancellor of the Council of Narnia (http://www.nationstates.net/10639/page=display_region/region=the_council_of_narnia)

Donald Holms,QC, took to the podium.

"Hayden,your reasoning is typical of those who do not believe in globl warming.Fortunately,there are many reasons for switching to renewable energy,not least of which is that many countries do not have oil or gas reserves to rely on,and are therefore reliant upon those who do.Surely the threat of being held to ransom by a foreign power is reason enough?"

Unless the World Assembly is operating under bizarre rules of procedure, a motion binding on all member nations cannot be considered except when submitted a proposal. Therefore, please post the proposal that you wish considered.

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador

This is a big task. The NS world is a pretty big place. Some places experience global warming, other places have global cooling, yet others experience neither. So in truth there isn't really truly global about either problem in the NS world.
You might want to explain why those who do not have problems with warming should help those who do have such problems.

Donald Holms,QC, took to the podium.

"Hayden,your reasoning is typical of those who do not believe in globl warming.Fortunately,there are many reasons for switching to renewable energy,not least of which is that many countries do not have oil or gas reserves to rely on,and are therefore reliant upon those who do.Surely the threat of being held to ransom by a foreign power is reason enough?"

This sounds like the sort of thing better addressed by the private sector. If a country lacks oil or gas reserves (or the refineries to turn those reserves into usable fuels) then fuel will naturally be more expensive, and the laws of economic supply and demand mean that it will be profitable for someone to develop an alternative fuel source.

It's not the sort of thing that's needful, or helpful, for the World Assembly to legislate on.

I object to such a proposal. (If one were to be proposed in the future.)

As of now, The Republic of Havensky's economy is good. However, requiring an expensive regulation such as this would throw a wrench in our economy. While it is the goal of the Republic to pass more eco-friendly legislation, such as our efforts in the public transportation realm, we prefer to do so slowly at a pace our economy can handle.

I imagine there are many member nations who would have the same problem and would be unwilling to tank thier economies no matter how good the cause. The enviroment if fine, but so are jobs.

I reiterate the comments of the honorable gentleman from Catawaba and agree wholeheartedly.

This idea is simply too much - too soon for many economies to handle.

OOC: As currently worded, this proposal would actually force any member-nations that already produce MORE than 20% of their energy requirements from renewable sources to reduce that production down to 20%...

As a delegate I will support any environmental proposal if it is well written and makes sense (but those two usually go hand and hand...usually).

As for this proposal draftish. It needs to be flushed out more (A few definitions and such, there's a really good web page here somewhere that explains how to best write a resolution).

Maybe start a Green fund to help the speedy implementation of green energy (solar, wind, geothermal, biofuels, ect ect ect).

Maybe throw in a off-shore oil rigs to windfarms/solarfarms program could be stuck in there somewhere.


either or, I would be more than supportive of any environmental proposal you or anyone who have (as long as it follows that web page article I hope someone here has a link for), from proposal to queue.


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I concur with NH.

Donald Holms,QC, took to the podium.

"Hayden,your reasoning is typical of those who do not believe in globl warming.Fortunately,there are many reasons for switching to renewable energy,not least of which is that many countries do not have oil or gas reserves to rely on,and are therefore reliant upon those who do.Surely the threat of being held to ransom by a foreign power is reason enough?"

Ambassador Seigfried narrowed his eyes. "Ambassador Holms, please do not use my first name until I have given leave to use it. First name usage amongst Catawabans is a sign of familiarity and trust. It is considered impolite and belittling to address someone by their first name with permission. You may address me by my surname and any of my titles: Ambassador, Delegate, Colonel, or simply Mister."

He sighed and took off his glasses. "You have not understood fully what I have said. Catawaba is already pursuing clean, renewable energies for economic reasons, the very same reasons you outlined. Though with cooperation and friendship of our regionmates, Catawaba does not fear foriegn control of our power sources."

"Also please read a transcript of my words, Ambassador Holms. I have never said that I do not believe in global warming as a whole. I simply believe, a belief shared by many Catawabans, that humans are not the chief cause. I would not think to stoop the sort of hubris that humans have the sort of power to do what enviromentalists fear or that we can or should determine and control what the 'ideal' climate is." Hayden took out a cloth and began wiping dust from his glasses.

"While ice core data and other long term climate indicators have shown a sharp rise in carbon dioxide and global temperature since the Industrial Revolution as the pattern of cooling and warming cycles continues, we should tip over the peak of a warming cycle and down into a sharp cooling cycle that should, mind you should, bring temperatures eight degrees Celsius below the mean present temperature. If you are using the Fahrenheit scale that's more than forty degrees."

The Catawaban Ambassador put his cloth away and replaced his glasses. "In a slightly odd and ironic way...increased carbon dioxide might actually do some small part to temper a disasterously cold Ice Age."

If I could just point out: this doesn't necessitate any reduction in carbon emissions. Nations could simply use more energy. Hardly a 'green' solution.

-- Samantha Benson
Congressional Liaison, Department of Confusion & Uncertainty
Quintessence of Dust, Delegate of Wysteria

"Also please read a transcript of my words, Ambassador Holms. I have never said that I do not believe in global warming as a whole. I simply believe, a belief shared by many Catawabans, that humans are not the chief cause. I would not think to stoop the sort of hubris that humans have the sort of power to do what enviromentalists fear or that we can or should determine and control what the 'ideal' climate is." Hayden took out a cloth and began wiping dust from his glasses.

"While ice core data and other long term climate indicators have shown a sharp rise in carbon dioxide and global temperature since the Industrial Revolution as the pattern of cooling and warming cycles continues, we should tip over the peak of a warming cycle and down into a sharp cooling cycle that should, mind you should, bring temperatures eight degrees Celsius below the mean present temperature. If you are using the Fahrenheit scale that's more than forty degrees."

The Catawaban Ambassador put his cloth away and replaced his glasses. "In a slightly odd and ironic way...increased carbon dioxide might actually do some small part to temper a disasterously cold Ice Age."

What I am about to say may be take as rude. I promise you this is not intentional.

The next speaker comes to the podium. His name is Lecforn Dron.

“First let me begin with the proposal.
In theory it could work. However you would first have to write the proposal and bring it to forum. Now as I am sure you have all noticed that we have herd from ether side of the story. We have herd people say

“We refuse to support any proposal that uses Chicken Little warnings of global warming as its sole reasoning.”

But we have herd the other side as well.

”As a delegate I will support any environmental proposal if it is well written and makes sense (but those two usually go hand and hand...usually).”

Now I thought my personal belief was irrelevant until I saw Ambassador Holms or Seigfried’s (whatever you want to call your self) later comment.
To quote him “I would not think to stoop the sort of hubris that humans have the sort of power to do what environmentalists fear or that we can or should determine and control what the 'ideal' climate is”.
I think he is underestimating human’s powers. Humans have flown in the sky. Humans have been to the moon. Humans have climbed Mount Everest. Humans have fingered out how to kill someone with the pull of a trigger.
We have done some good and some bad. And it is hard for some people to say I made a mistake, but it’s time. It is time to fix are mistakes and that is why this proposal need to pass”

(( It wasn't rude at all, Droa. It's a good, intelligent piece of arguement. Welcome to the Floor, pard. ))

Ambassador Seigfried nodded in reponse to the Droan's words. "I will give you that Man is a capable creature. We have achieved great and mighty things, but there are still a great many things beyond our capability."

The Catawaban propped a foot up on his milkcrate desk. "After the Second World War during the massive nuclear arms race that still continues today, alarmists raved that we could destroy the planet. With a myraid of turned keys, we would sterilize the Earth. That has been proven false. Surely, the aftermath of full nuclear war would be disasterous and perhaps fatal for the human race."

"However, biologists have come to realize that life would endure. In fact if you go back through geological and paleontological history, you find a number of mass extinctions. The causes of those apocalyptic events have ranged from sharp climatological changes to massive asteroid strikes and new evidence surmises that a massive burst of gamma radiation might have caused an extinction event before life ever left the oceans."

Seigfried took a deep breath. "After each of these horrific die offs, Life and the Earth itself have adapted in remarkable ways. The Earth heals itself back to a homeostatis that continues to support life, and organisms perform an 'adaptive radiation' where survivors spread out and variate themselves to fill enviromental niches left empty. Each kingdom and phylum of Life came about as organisms found a way to adapt to changing conditions."

He knit his fingers and rested them on his belly. "It's confused me that enviromentalists revere the Earth but then in turn doubt her powers, her endurance, and her ingenuity. It is human hubris, I believe, to think that Man has the sheer power and ability to destroy what gamma ray bursts bigger than the entire planet and dense metallic asteroids larger than most nations could not."

Hayden shook his head. "One day, one terrible horrific day, Man might have the ability to with a turned key, a flip of a caution cover, and a press of a button destroy our planet. That day is not here...yet. Might pollution eventually compound to a degree where it is perhaps the danger you fear? Yes, that is entirely possible. However, it does not appear to be close, not in my lifetime or that of my child's. Catawaba looks towards the future and back at our lovely island."

"We will protect both. However, we do not see the need for WA to enact drastic changes that could instead hamper or damage us economically. We arem again, adopting renewable energy for economic reasons but at a pace that is economically feasible."

Lecforn Dron stands up and applauds. He goes to the podium to speak.
“ I have a new found admiration for Ambassador Seigfried. For he has given me a new look at global warming, and though it wont change my opinion I believe for the first time that maybe those dumb anti global warming people, aren’t so dumb.
However as much as I would like to continue my debate with the ambassador we should get to the point. Global warming is not the main thing here.”

“Lets look at this as if the world were a cup. Inside the cup is water. Now you place a straw in this cup and you start to drink. Now the crazy among us (not saying that Ambassador Seigfried is crazy) will say that the water will never run out. But hey we call them crazy for a reason right. The problem is the water will run out, there’s no way around it. There’s no way to fill the cup back up. Now I am pretty sure you all get what I am saying but just in case you don't, this water is not water at all, it’s fossil fuels. So what do we do? We have to stop drinking the water at some point. But we need water to live. We will at sone point have to develop the technology for substantial energy some time. So why not now, why not get ahead in the game.”

Lecforn walks back to his seat.

The King of Miyager Will Opose any Green Energy and we will keep our Country's Industrial,Service City LIfe Habitat and right now our country is 89% Industrial and 11% Green our Econmy 59% Services,31% Industrial,and 10% Agricultiral,and we Oppse This! This is Why i Dont Like Green Energy! :sniper::mp5::headbang:

Another point not considered here is that some nations here already have the necessary technology for generating power by means of Nuclear Fusion which, although technically perhaps not 'renewable', is a fairly "clean" source of energy and also worth encouraging...