NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello, I am Hierophant Elijah Obama, a Shaman of the Church of Yahsirus and I am writing this in the behalf of our President, of the United Tribes of Apoclypsia.
A million years ago, in a war with the former Soviet Union, America was devestated by the ruthless use of nuclear weapons and biological weapons. We endured a nuclear winter that was so hideous, many were reduced to cannabalism to survive. For centuries we lived inside of fall out shelters-our air was poisoned, the earth was destitute of life and hideous diseases killed our old and infants.
A million years we endured this horror, waiting for the radiation to wear off and for life to return to our smashed and damaged nation! A million years of privatation, canaballism, ignorance, savagery and the brutal struggle for survival.
Hear us, O Nations! Nuclear weapons or as the people of Apoclypsia call it, the Godfire, is no joke! These weapons, as we know all too well, are far too powerful for ANY nation or ANY man to have! To this day, we must bear the burden of the horrors, spontaneous abortions and physical deformities caused by residual radiation. To this day, A MILLION YEARS LATER, we still have freakish mutations of animal life and we still have plauges, bizzare diseases and cancers.
Listen to the testimony of Apoclypsia, O People of the World! We call on you to work to the end and destruction of all weapons of mass destruction. It is foolish ot give men the power of the Gods without having the wisdom of the Gods to use that power intelligently!
We bear witness to you, that the horrors of the apocalypse we went through is straight from the Hells of Setan! In the name of the Gods, in the name of mercy, compassion, sanity and the mutual desire for survival, end this nightmare of the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction as we have in Apoclypsia!
May Yahsiris bless you and the Gods keep you! May the Blood of Yahsiris redeem your people and cleanse the earth of all the forces of Death and Setan. Amen!

"What is this America and Soviet Union you speak of?"

A strong nuclear deterrent is one of the cornerstones of Sophista's defensive policy. Our is a small nation, its population spread thin over a number of islands, its military spending focused on potent aerospace and naval forces. While we have the utmost of confidence in the men and women who serve under our flag, the Ministry of Defense is not so foolish as to believe that we can stand up to a larger, similarly-equipped force.

It is with that in mind that our government chose to develop and deploy a large arsenal of nuclear weapons, from strategic ICBM systems to smaller tactical weapons delivered by cruise missile, guided bomb, or torpedo. Thus far, this arsenal has kept Sophista out of many a conflict. The only war we've ever participated in has been conducted by proxy, firing more dodgeballs than warheads.

The number of nations which share Sophista's precarious position is unknown, but I'd wager a bet that it is large enough to render such a proposal disastrous to the security of thousands of nations and regions. We strongly disapprove of such a resolution, and encourage our fellow delegates to keep situations like ours in mind when voting.

Also, illegal because of RL references

First off, is there an actual proposal here, or are you just ranting? Secondly, if there is an actual proposal here, you should probably check out some of the previously passed resolutions, specifically numbers 204 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12864193&postcount=205), 110 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9384832&postcount=111), and 109 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9384768&postcount=110), as you just may find that will have an impact on your idea.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

While we would very strongly support legislation to prohibit all weapons of mass destruction (or should that be, 'to drive off the abominable scourge of the atom'?) we feel this proposal is not yet adequately drafted, and may be the product of a seconabarbitol binge. Thus, our advice:
- it might be best to first pursue chemical weapons, so long as you think carefully about definitions;
- anything concerning nuclear weapons would require a repeal of "Nuclear Armaments", something we would gladly assist with;
- you will need to label any weapons you wish to prohibit 'not necessary for national defence' in order to comply with (skirt) "United Nations Security Act";
- easy on the reds.

-- Samantha Benson
Congressional Liaison, Department of UN Affairs
The Democratic States of Quintessence of Dust

Blog Waters would not support such a measure. The production of these weapons of mass destruction such as our famed "Adonis Bomb" create countless jobs and Blog Waters, though neutral, profits mightily from others insatiable desire to kill each other. This would cripple our industry, limiting sales to non-UN members.

Furthermore, what measures would be in place to defend UN members against non-UN members who are free to use any weaponry they like?

Furthermore, what measures would be in place to defend UN members against non-UN members who are free to use any weaponry they like?We could be nice to them.

-- Samantha Benson

We could be nice to them.

-- Samantha Benson

I dearly hope that there's been a problem with the chamber's sarcasm amplifiers, and that you weren't being serious. If you are foolish enough to believe that a pleasant attitude is all that you need to fend off the world's armies, then you deserve whatever fate befalls your nation. I, on the other hand, intend to fight for Sophista's right to not be wiped clean from the face of the planet because of your misguided philosophy.

We could be nice to them.

Here is recent news footage of an attempt by our nation to do just that:

:fluffle::gundge:

As you can see, our efforts to make nice with the Pac Man people of Arcadia 8 only angered the Green Ninjas of Throwingstaropolis.

Bahgum has no need for weapons of mass destruction as our armed forces have moved to the next step in combat evolution. We fel we ought to announce that we hae no intention of disbanding our Mother in Law battalions, the ultimate deterrent is what keeps our proud country secure.

The Popotan tentatively supports nuclear power for peaceful use, therefore I cannot see The Popotan endorsing such a measure.

The Empire of Zakuvia, as much as it finds it disdainful, keeps a small cache of 'Imperator'-class ICBM's. Our purpose for keeping them is not for the purposes of intimidation, but for deterrance. When Enrico Fermi and his band of brothers invented that bomb, he let a genie out of a bottle that can never, even with the best of intentions or UN bills, be put back in.

Accordingly, the Empire of Zakuvia will stand against any proposition that would hamper our Imperial defense.

Enim Incolumitas Per Sanitas

Sorry to say,but this will never work.there are always going to be nations that continue to produce them,therefore UN nations need a defence from them. this defence can only be there own weapons which means,once again,it just would not work.

:sniper:

You know, the person who started this thread hasn't been seen since they first posted, and I don't see any hint of a proposal here, perhaps we should just let this thread die.

You know, the person who started this thread hasn't been seen since they first posted, and I don't see any hint of a proposal here, perhaps we should just let this thread die.
Well, ordinarily I'd agree, but I feel the need to reply to this example of barbaric militarism:
I dearly hope that there's been a problem with the chamber's sarcasm amplifiers, and that you weren't being serious. If you are foolish enough to believe that a pleasant attitude is all that you need to fend off the world's armies, then you deserve whatever fate befalls your nation. I, on the other hand, intend to fight for Sophista's right to not be wiped clean from the face of the planet because of your misguided philosophy.
It is this kind of hyperaggressive and, dare I suggest, phallocentric reasoning that has kept the people of the world locked in deadly and destructive combat through the ages. Nations of the UN should lead by example, in the first instance by adopting more humane foreign policies. Threatening one another with weapons of mass destruction is no way for responsible nations to behave.

Obviously, we wouldn't favour total disarmament: just the elimination of unconventional weapons, linked to appropriate reforms of international aid and trade mechanisms.

-- Samantha Benson

Sorry to say,but this will never work.there are always going to be nations that continue to produce them,therefore UN nations need a defence from them. this defence can only be there own weapons which means,once again,it just would not work.

:sniper:

This is not logical and your hyperbole makes me see the err in my previous post. Defense does not require the same tools as offense. You can't defend against anthrax with more anthrax. You need anthrax vaccine. A nation could store anthrax vaccine or other defensive measures (which my nations' factories could be retrofitted to produce, thus saving my industry) without owning the weapons they defend against.

It is this kind of hyperaggressive and, dare I suggest, phallocentric reasoning that has kept the people of the world locked in deadly and destructive combat through the ages. Nations of the UN should lead by example, in the first instance by adopting more humane foreign policies. Threatening one another with weapons of mass destruction is no way for responsible nations to behave.
The Holy Republic of Massello might point out that, aside from this tirade being of an opinion which is not universally agreed upon, it is outside the boundaries of reality. I think it is safe to say that defense of ones' people is a top priority for each nation in the UN, and this overly optimistic ideology of peace through humane foreign policy and diplomacy falls by the wayside in times of global emergencies. The UN itself does not have the strength to maintain authority through a global crisis involving multiple nations, each targeting each other with nuclear, biological, chemical, or any other weapons of mass destruction. Thus, it is better to err on the side of caution in maintaining a private arsenal of WMDs as an insurance policy for a failure in diplomacy, as well as a deterrent.

It is foolish ot give men the power of the Gods without having the wisdom of the Gods to use that power intelligently!Hell we have found that humans think they are GODS and thus proof of this... in their every action.

We bear witness to you, that the horrors of the apocalypse we went through is straight from the Hells of Setan!if you mean the Great Flush then hit the lever again and check to see if the water is turned on and it will get rid of your stinch.

In the name of the Gods,We didn't know anyone still believed in Larry, Moe, and Curlie
in the name of mercy, The word mercy has no place in battle as if you seek it there then death will find you..
compassion,Tears do not the dead return to life..
sanityWe would be willing to give up weapons but it not sanity we are concerned with; it's insanity.
and the mutual desire for survival, As we have done for far longer than you might dream we will continue to survive..
end this nightmare of the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction as we have in Apoclypsia!How when only members of the UN will no longer have them while all the other nations of this universe still do.
May Yahsiris bless you and the Gods keep you! May the Blood of Yahsiris redeem your people and cleanse the earth of all the forces of Death and Setan. Amen!The earth home of the humans is beyond cleansing so any prayer for them is wasted they in their own time will fall into the void as all things will in their own time. Even your nations can not avoid it's fall when time ends for it... We wake from the womb only to walk toward the tomb and can do nothing to change that fate set for us all.

Hello, I am Hierophant Elijah Obama, a Shaman of the Church of Yahsirus and I am writing this in the behalf of our President, of the United Tribes of Apoclypsia.
A million years ago, in a war with the former Soviet Union, America was devestated by the ruthless use of nuclear weapons and biological weapons. We endured a nuclear winter that was so hideous, many were reduced to cannabalism to survive. For centuries we lived inside of fall out shelters-our air was poisoned, the earth was destitute of life and hideous diseases killed our old and infants.
A million years we endured this horror, waiting for the radiation to wear off and for life to return to our smashed and damaged nation! A million years of privatation, canaballism, ignorance, savagery and the brutal struggle for survival.
Hear us, O Nations! Nuclear weapons or as the people of Apoclypsia call it, the Godfire, is no joke! These weapons, as we know all too well, are far too powerful for ANY nation or ANY man to have! To this day, we must bear the burden of the horrors, spontaneous abortions and physical deformities caused by residual radiation. To this day, A MILLION YEARS LATER, we still have freakish mutations of animal life and we still have plauges, bizzare diseases and cancers.
Listen to the testimony of Apoclypsia, O People of the World! We call on you to work to the end and destruction of all weapons of mass destruction. It is foolish ot give men the power of the Gods without having the wisdom of the Gods to use that power intelligently!
We bear witness to you, that the horrors of the apocalypse we went through is straight from the Hells of Setan! In the name of the Gods, in the name of mercy, compassion, sanity and the mutual desire for survival, end this nightmare of the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction as we have in Apoclypsia!
May Yahsiris bless you and the Gods keep you! May the Blood of Yahsiris redeem your people and cleanse the earth of all the forces of Death and Setan. Amen!


May I ask the one who's calling for this resolution to question himself and the environment around him.
This world is in danger,alot of terrorists are springing up within our midst,we need a weapon that would enable us to defend ourselves from a possible takeover.
Norman Wolfonson
Director For Defense
ConservativeRepublicans

May I ask the one who's calling for this resolution to question himself and the environment around him.
This world is in danger,alot of terrorists are springing up within our midst,we need a weapon that would enable us to defend ourselves from a possible takeover.
Norman Wolfonson
Director For Defense
ConservativeRepublicans

How would WMDs work against terrorists? That's like using a grenade to cut a cake.

AHEM!
You know, the person who started this thread hasn't been seen since they first posted, and I don't see any hint of a proposal here, perhaps we should just let this thread die.

OOC: You know, I was reading through this and I've come to realise you're all very uptight about something so minute. Let me explain.

IC: Jorn Cortez, Roshavian Ambassador, stands.

*ahem*

Even if you can force a nation to cease production of and disarm all nuclear weapons in order to preserve world peace, you're all still failing to understand what exactly happens when these nuclear weapons are disassembled. The radioactive, toxic waste left behind has severe effects upon the human body and takes hundreds (in some cases, thousands) of years for the wastes to become dormant (or become "safe"). If you really want to force an international breakdown of nuclear weapons, be prepared to accomodate for all of the wastes that are going to be left behind. In most cases, these materials must remain encased within thick cement blocks buried deep underground in order to ensure that the majority of life forms are not effected by such harmful materials.

In other words, you cannot simply say, "Okay guys, no more nukes," and expect the problem to go away. No no, that only creates several more problems. Research the subject before attempting to pass ludacris resolutions that leave nations in such a dire predicament. You can easily pass a resolution forbiding the creation of further nuclear weapons, but again that leads to more problems. What happens when that law is passed and several nations already have large quantity of nuclear weapons? Does that not simply give those nations a severe advantage over other nations both militarily and financially?

Let's assume we are in a perfect world and all nations have proper means of disposing of their nuclear waste created during the disarming process. How do we then ensure that every nation abides by our resolution's terms and actually follows completely through with disarming their nukes, disposing of them properly and safely, and actually ensure each nation does not create more nuclear weapons in secrecy in the future? This entire proposed proposal lacks any form of content to cover the most important issues. Any nation can come up with a simple plan such as, "Get rid of all nukes and the world will be a better place," but in order to avoid the severe problems created by such a simple resolution takes the skills of several nations.

If that was too long for many of you and has caused you to fall asleep: Roshavia declines to support this particular issue for future floor consideration due to the fact that it lacks any form of logic, and due to the fact that the nation creating it fails to consider anything past the "force all nations to disband their nukes" stage.

OOC (again): Pretty much I laughed at the writer's obvious lack of knowledge of nuclear weaponry. If this style of resolution were to be passed in the real world, it would largely be ignored. It's like attempting to completely regulate the internet.

OOC (again): Pretty much I laughed at the writer's obvious lack of knowledge of nuclear weaponry. If this style of resolution were to be passed in the real world, it would largely be ignored. It's like attempting to completely regulate the internet.
OOC: But in the unlikely event of it being passed in NS, rather than in the real world, compliance with (the letter of) all NSUN resolutions is mandatory for all NSUN member-nations... so the nations would have to get rid of all their nukes.
Fortunately, however, there's no likelihood of it passing...

In other words, you cannot simply say, "Okay guys, no more nukes," and expect the problem to go away. No no, that only creates several more problems.

With respect, no shit Sherlock. Hence all the more urgency to halt the production now. Every day that passes without such a disarmament creates more of these toxic death bombs, multiplying the problem you have already described.

Also, buy Blog Waters brand disarmament kits. Blog Waters: For all your disarming and defensive weaponry needs.

"We here in the Shazbotdom Empire like our shiney nukes. We thearfore do not like this idea whatsoever and will do anything in our power to stop it."

May I ask the one who's calling for this resolution to question himself and the environment around him.
This world is in danger,alot of terrorists are springing up within our midst,we need a weapon that would enable us to defend ourselves from a possible takeover.
Norman Wolfonson
Director For Defense
ConservativeRepublicans


Sure you do. But why not use means of killing that are not so insanely brutal and genocidal? There would be less wars if you had to stare the man you were killing in the face, instead of the cowardly means many of you so called "civilized" states do.

According to our Laws, we do not use these weak methods to kill. When a clan or a tribe wishes to war, they face each other and kill each other with spears, clubs and knives. We do not drop bombs from the sky as if killing was just a video game or a farce. Taking the life of a person should be made as difficult and as traumatizing as possible.

The civilized nations (so called), drop their weapons on the innocent because, basically, your cowards. You fear fighting another as an equal and instead slaughter them like animals. That is the TRUE reason why you fear giving up your weapons of mass destruction.

In our so called "uncivillized" nation, we deal with child and women killers appropriately; we execute them. Yet in your "civillized" nations you slay and wound innocent women and children and call it "collatoral damage". Again, this is from cowardice. You haven't the courage nor the strength to let men fight men, face to face without your precious guns and bombs.

Excuse your cowardice anbd immorality however you wish, but in the end let the world know your a nation of woman and child killers, weaklings, and decadent eunuchs addicted to your television, your worship of guns and your endless thirst to exterminate others as if they were insects.

Apoclypsia honors those we kill by giving them a fair chance. We fight face to face and let the Gods decide whom will live and whom will die. Because of this our land is safe from the madness that causes mad dog killers to mow innocents down like dogs, and we do not have mad men and religious fanatics running into crowds and blowing themselves up like eunuch cowards.

You say you fear terrorists, but do you have terrorists? You say you need this for defense, but if so, why is it that you spend billions of that useless paper you call money to buy more weapons and creat better ways to exterminate the human race? I can tell you why. It is because that which you call "civilization" has made you weaklings addicted to cruelty, slaughter and woman & child killing. Why, you do not even execute those disturbed dogs who would molest a child! In our land, by the Gods, we would slit his throat and cast his body into a pit to rot!

Also, is it not true you have these weapons to threaten your own people? You fear them since you control every aspect of their lives. I have heard you arrest them even for smoking marijuanna! It is right you fear your people, for all men wish to be free. If you gave up your weapons, they would rise up and smash your governments and hang your politicians for oppressing them and making them slaves!

Civillization, indeed is an immoral things. Our system of Primitivist-Anarchy is more ecologically sane and lessens the horrors you experience every day. Bah! i too might be a mad dog killer or become a religious fanatic as well, if my government told me what I could eat, what I could drink or smoke, how many wives I may have or spied on us and controlled us as you do your people.

Brother, you have done evil, and thus the evil has returned to you. I tell you that if you were not so weak, if you did not make men into Gods and your technology into idols, much of your fear would be gone. It is right to fear an enemy you have offended, and it is right to fear the people you have oppressed. Therefore, stop offending your foes and stop oppressing your people, and you will not have to fear anymore.

Hell we have found that humans think they are GODS and thus proof of this... in their every action.

if you mean the Great Flush then hit the lever again and check to see if the water is turned on and it will get rid of your stinch.

We didn't know anyone still believed in Larry, Moe, and Curlie
The word mercy has no place in battle as if you seek it there then death will find you..
Tears do not the dead return to life..
We would be willing to give up weapons but it not sanity we are concerned with; it's insanity.
As we have done for far longer than you might dream we will continue to survive..
How when only members of the UN will no longer have them while all the other nations of this universe still do.
The earth home of the humans is beyond cleansing so any prayer for them is wasted they in their own time will fall into the void as all things will in their own time. Even your nations can not avoid it's fall when time ends for it... We wake from the womb only to walk toward the tomb and can do nothing to change that fate set for us all.

Blasphemy! it is fine if you do not believe in the Blessed Saviour Yahsiris, even though He gave his life so life would return to the Earth every spring and restore fertility to the earth, but must you blaspheme?

There is a way to cleanse the Earth through the enlightened practice and philosophy of Primitivist-Anarchy. Most of your technology are just chains on your soul, my brother. The Gods meant for man to live in his natural state and use technology to heal, not harm.

Your soul is twisted up. The Gods watch us and Yahsiris knows They will judge us. The Gods reward the strong, brave and true and punish the weak,cowardly and false. As we speak, the Gods are searching your heart to see if your too proud, too foolish and too arrogant to bow to the Higher Power the Gods represent.

Many people call the Gods by different names. The name does not matter, but the condition of one's heart does. Beware that you do not offend the Gods with your arrogance and pride. We too were as you were, before the Gods humbled us on the awful day of the Godfire.

The world is in peril because of your idolatorous worship of technology and your heresy of worshipping the work of your hands instead of the Gods. I call on you, my brother, to give up all technological use of weapons and use it as the Gods intended to help, heal and care for your people and the Earth.

We have forever turned our back in the Holy Land of Apoclypsia from the need to control our people, to bow before a television or to worship technological idols. We keep the Law as the Gods have decreed through our Blessed Ancestors, and treat the Earth well too. Do you not know by your idols you poison the land and thereby seal you're childrens doom? The air you breath is poson as is your water and your food. All because your desire to worship machine idols!

*The Wolfish Emissary rises, her dark cloak casting her face in shadow*

Good people of Nation States...

I would like to provide you with notice that the government of Wolfish is considering annexing the nation of Apoclypsia.

Given our military outnumbers the total population of this nation...we don't expect to have to use our nuclear weapons...so the wholesale price of glass should remain constant through this one-day campaign.

*the audience laughs as a smile spreads across her face*

Of course...we are joking - but I hope our point is clear.

Nuclear weapons, possessed by any sized nation provide that much needed deterent.

Apoclypsia can hug my people all it likes...but that wouldn't pause our tanks for one minute as they rolled through that peaceful, hippy infested countryside.

Apoclypsia can hug my people all it likes...but that wouldn't pause our tanks for one minute as they rolled through that peaceful, hippy infested countryside.

Yes, but such an act would prompt Blog Waters to roll over your puny tanks with a small fleet of our Mega Agile Xterminators of Infantry, Panzers and Aquafibious Defenders, probably led by Girl Scout Troop #409. Blog Waters always responds to unwarranted aggression by deploying our infamous MAXIPADS (which are incidentally not WMDs).

My point being that you aren't prevented from such a heinous act because of the threat of WMDs. You are prevented by the international outcry and response that you would face.

Yes, but such an act would prompt Blog Waters to roll over your puny tanks with a small fleet of our Mega Agile Xterminators of Infantry, Panzers and Aquafibious Defenders, probably led by Girl Scout Troop #409. Blog Waters always responds to unwarranted aggression by deploying our infamous MAXIPADS (which are incidentally not WMDs).

My point being that you aren't prevented from such a heinous act because of the threat of WMDs. You are prevented by the international outcry and response that you would face.

So who are you to determine "unwarranted aggression" - would you now turn this NSUN into a world police force?

And how long after WMD are banned before some Birkenstock-wearing hippy targets your Mega Agile Xterminators of Infantry, Panzers and Aquafibious Defenders as a cruel and unusual weapon of war...and bans it.

In your very response you have proved my point. A deterrent is necessary.

Yes, but such an act would prompt Blog Waters to roll over your puny tanks with a small fleet of our Mega Agile Xterminators of Infantry, Panzers and Aquafibious Defenders, probably led by Girl Scout Troop #409. Blog Waters always responds to unwarranted aggression by deploying our infamous MAXIPADS (which are incidentally not WMDs).

My point being that you aren't prevented from such a heinous act because of the threat of WMDs. You are prevented by the international outcry and response that you would face.

True, my brother. That nation must be made up of weaklings. I suggest the people of that nation remove the madman who runs it and return it to the People and leaders who are sane.

I challenge the Wolfish people to send a chosen champion to fight our chosen champion. We choose the weapon to be knives. You decide the grounds of combat..unless, as I believe your a cowardly idolater of technology?

Let's see how tough you are with only a blade in your hand and your warrior skills to rely on.

So who are you to determine "unwarranted aggression" - would you now turn this NSUN into a world police force?

And how long after WMD are banned before some Birkenstock-wearing hippy targets your Mega Agile Xterminators of Infantry, Panzers and Aquafibious Defenders as a cruel and unusual weapon of war...and bans it.

In your very response you have proved my point. A deterrent is necessary.

Your reply shows that your insanity is growing. We have no wish to kill anyone, except in blood fued or such. I suggest you sing yourself into an asylum for the criminally insane.

The world would be safer with you securely restrained in a straightjacket, confined to a rubber room.

OOC: But in the unlikely event of it being passed in NS, rather than in the real world, compliance with (the letter of) all NSUN resolutions is mandatory for all NSUN member-nations... so the nations would have to get rid of all their nukes.
Fortunately, however, there's no likelihood of it passing...

OOC (one last time): Yeah, I understand what you're saying. My point was that even though it is mandatory here, if it wouldn't be passed in the real world for glaringly obvious reasons, I'd hate to see it passed here.

With respect, no shit Sherlock. Hence all the more urgency to halt the production now. Every day that passes without such a disarmament creates more of these toxic death bombs, multiplying the problem you have already described.

Also, buy Blog Waters brand disarmament kits. Blog Waters: For all your disarming and defensive weaponry needs.

IC: Ambassador Cortez seems a slight bit taken aback at the personal attacks being slung at him.

With all due respect to the delegate from Blog Waters, personal attacks and claiming common sense on a subject you have repeatedly shown a complete lack thereof on do not gain you any sort of foothold in this type of environment. I am also afraid to say that you of all people should not have been asleep during my previous statements, as it is obvious that you did not listen to a word I previously said. Disarming the nukes creates more hazards than it repairs, and I advise you talk to my secretary in order to get a copy of my previously statements. She does a great job of writing everything I say down, you know. (OOC: Read my last post, bud. Back IC.)

And, one more thing, who is Sherlock?

Your reply shows that your insanity is growing. We have no wish to kill anyone, except in blood fued or such. I suggest you sing yourself into an asylum for the criminally insane.

The world would be safer with you securely restrained in a straightjacket, confined to a rubber room.

The Roshavian delegation would like to state that it supports the comments made by the Wolfish Emissary. These nations must understand that the NSUN does not have a standing military used to police the world. Our delegation would also like to point out that sending Girl Scout Troop #409 into a warzone is an inhumane and cruel act which must immediately cease.

The Roshavian delegation would like to state that a frighteningly boneheaded resolution such as this one can be easily avoided with a similar resolution that instead of banning nuclear weaponry would allow nations the option to build or not build nuclear devices. Layered onto that resolution could be mandatory construction of anti-nuke defenses (such as missile turrets built specifically to remotely take nuclear devices out of the skies and take them back to the country they came from, after ensuring an explosion would not occur) funded by the NSUN. Money could be raised for such a feat by having Girl Scout Troop #409 form a fundraiser. Cookies could be sold. Or pies.

Your reply shows that your insanity is growing. We have no wish to kill anyone, except in blood fued or such. I suggest you sing yourself into an asylum for the criminally insane.

The world would be safer with you securely restrained in a straightjacket, confined to a rubber room.

The Wolfish Emissary was growing tired of this flea...

"Look," she said, tone clearly present in her voice. "I may be insane, but the People of Wolfish are safe because their government protects them.

While your nation may wish harm on no one, I assure you there are a thousand other nations out there that do...and my nation and its army - and yes, its nuclear weapons stand ready to meet and destroy that thread.

You may wish to live in a state of innocence and denial, our people will not.

Now, might I respectfully suggest you put forward a proposal for debate, or sit down so I can have my nap.

So who are you to determine "unwarranted aggression" - would you now turn this NSUN into a world police force?

And how long after WMD are banned before some Birkenstock-wearing hippy targets your Mega Agile Xterminators of Infantry, Panzers and Aquafibious Defenders as a cruel and unusual weapon of war...and bans it.

In your very response you have proved my point. A deterrent is necessary.

1) I have not proposed the NSUN do anything. I'm just stating that any nation planning to invade a significantly weaker nation must demonstrate a good reason to its peers. (I've heard that some use the mere presence of WMDs as such an excuse - some deterrent!)

2) The case that MAXIPADS are a cruel and unusual weapon of war would be difficult to make since they neither injure nor kill anything, much less civilians.

3) I agree that a deterrent is needed. I disagree vehemently that WMDs can act as a deterrent.

IC: Ambassador Cortez seems a slight bit taken aback at the personal attacks being slung at him.

With all due respect to the delegate from Blog Waters, personal attacks and claiming common sense on a subject you have repeatedly shown a complete lack thereof on do not gain you any sort of foothold in this type of environment. I am also afraid to say that you of all people should not have been asleep during my previous statements, as it is obvious that you did not listen to a word I previously said. Disarming the nukes creates more hazards than it repairs, and I advise you talk to my secretary in order to get a copy of my previously statements. She does a great job of writing everything I say down, you know. (OOC: Read my last post, bud. Back IC.)

Friend, that is an old Blog Waterian saying. Offense was not intended. Please accept sincere apologies if offense was taken.

Still, I can assure you that I reviewed your comments thoroughly. We are well-versed in the dangers you cite. Ignoring the fact that not all WMDs are nuclear, I am merely pointing out a flaw in your logic. Eventually, nations must disarm their existing nuclear weapons, if only because they are outdated and/or have become unstable. If the production of nuclear weapons continues, then there will simply be even more weapons to disarm at this later point. The hazard remains larger if the WMDs you cite are not banned simply due to those weapons produced after the ban goes into effect.

These nations must understand that the NSUN does not have a standing military used to police the world.

We never suggested the NSUN would be the one sending forces. This was a false assumption we would like to clarify.[/QUOTE]

Our delegation would also like to point out that sending Girl Scout Troop #409 into a warzone is an inhumane and cruel act which must immediately cease.
...
Money could be raised for such a feat by having Girl Scout Troop #409 form a fundraiser. Cookies could be sold. Or pies.

That's silly! How do you propose the members of Girl Scout Troop #409 get their Armed Services badges? Plus, we do not like the sexist undertones of your comments. Furthermore, we find it reprehensible that you would exploit them for such capitalistic purposes (and unhealthy to boot!) as raising money to fund YOUR war machine.

*turning to address the entire delegation*

Remember, when you need weapons, Blog Waters has got your back. Blog Waters: We build weapons that care!

3) I agree that a deterrent is needed. I disagree vehemently that WMDs can act as a deterrent.

Apparently, you haven't heard of Mutually Assured Destruction.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Apparently, you haven't heard of Mutually Assured Destruction.

The problem with Mutually Assured Destruction is persuading all sides of the mutuality of it. Should one side incorrectly believe it has an overwhelming advantage -- as many have demonstrated in this discussion -- or sufficient allies in this world of multiple superpowers, then as a doctrine it is naught but a disaster waiting to happen.

Pure MAD policy is the ultimate expression of a deterent.

Mostly destroy...somewhat destroyed...and even partially glassed will work.

I know that should someone have the capability to turn my capital Talon into a emerald city, I'd think twice about vapourizing their nation.

We must also remember that a deterent is only one tool in the great back-and-forth of foreign affairs. There can be much more progress with legislation, diplomacy, sanctions...and yes, even conventional war than with WMD...but those weapons are a critical tool in this world of ours.

Pure MAD policy is the ultimate expression of a deterent.
Indeed. It's when it doesn't deter that everyone is in trouble.

Indeed. It's when it doesn't deter that everyone is in trouble.Kind of hard to deter someone who really doesn't care if they die, so long as you do...

Kind of hard to deter someone who really doesn't care if they die, so long as you do...

Yes, many religions would argue with the common definition of "destruction." Also, MAD is useless when dealing with a nation inhabited by those who are already dead such as The Rogue Nation of Zombie Apocalypse.

"Really, sir?" Hayden's eyebrows raised as he looked towards the diplomat from Blog Waters. "They may be dead, but if they're cognizant enough to operate weapons of mass destruction, I'm sure there is some portion of them that does mind whether they continue their undeath or not."

Seigfried stopped for a few moments. "And the Rogue Nation of Zombie Apocalypse really isn't a perfect example...because of a very...vehment stigma in Catawaba against the zombies...might just tip the balance which would make a decision to utilize WMDs quite easy. Mostly because we severely severely doubt that that zombies would like to extend their hand in friendship. We wouldn't want them to extend their hand. We'd rather it stay attached to the body all in all..."

"Really, sir?" Hayden's eyebrows raised as he looked towards the diplomat from Blog Waters. "They may be dead, but if they're cognizant enough to operate weapons of mass destruction, I'm sure there is some portion of them that does mind whether they continue their undeath or not."

Hayden, your hasty prejudice against zombies aside, my point is that MAD relies on your fellow nations to share the same philosophy and beliefs on existence as your own. A great many do not. MAD is a strategy destined to fail.

"Your hasty scoff of my hasty prejudice aside..." Seigfried shook his head. "Mutually Assured Destruction isn't a paragon to hold up. It's a last ditch strategy, the holstered but unlashed gun at the table of diplomacy. It's not something skip into, thinking one day 'Gosh, I think I'll put my nukes on alert and put those chemical bombs on my fighters' hardpoints. Today's a good day for MAD.'"

Siegfried leaned back in his chair. "More accurately, MAD pops up because my fellow nations and I don't share philosophies and beliefs. We're so at odds that we feel the need to point utter death of our entire populations at each other. Yes, it's a self-defeating tactic. You can't win with it, only keep a stalemate...either of the status quo or mutual anniliation."

"However, not ascribing to MAD when someone else is willing to point WMDs your way is a recipe for disaster. What are you going to do? They've already got the gun squarely pointed at your head and all you brought to the fight was a butter knife."


(( OOC: I hate to invoke Godwin's Law...but...I think it's funny. ))

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/jedierrant/Parlay.jpg

"Your hasty scoff of my hasty prejudice aside..." Seigfried shook his head. "Mutually Assured Destruction isn't a paragon to hold up. It's a last ditch strategy, the holstered but unlashed gun at the table of diplomacy. It's not something skip into, thinking one day 'Gosh, I think I'll put my nukes on alert and put those chemical bombs on my fighters' hardpoints. Today's a good day for MAD.'"

Siegfried leaned back in his chair. "More accurately, MAD pops up because my fellow nations and I don't share philosophies and beliefs. We're so at odds that we feel the need to point utter death of our entire populations at each other. Yes, it's a self-defeating tactic. You can't win with it, only keep a stalemate...either of the status quo or mutual anniliation."

"However, not ascribing to MAD when someone else is willing to point WMDs your way is a recipe for disaster. What are you going to do? They've already got the gun squarely pointed at your head and all you brought to the fight was a butter knife."


Your response is witty, humorous and completely avoids nearly every argument that has been made here.

Well, ordinarily I'd agree, but I feel the need to reply to this example of barbaric militarism:

It is this kind of hyperaggressive and, dare I suggest, phallocentric reasoning that has kept the people of the world locked in deadly and destructive combat through the ages. Nations of the UN should lead by example, in the first instance by adopting more humane foreign policies. Threatening one another with weapons of mass destruction is no way for responsible nations to behave.

Obviously, we wouldn't favour total disarmament: just the elimination of unconventional weapons, linked to appropriate reforms of international aid and trade mechanisms.


Your horribly detached world-view aside, there is nothing aggressive or phallic about a strong national defense. Perhaps if you spent more time examining the world's realpolitik and less time dreaming of phalluses you would understand that conventional weapons are by no means an appropriate deterrent to a well-armed and numerically superior force.

I find it amusing that you choose to unfairly characterize the Sophistan people as blood-lusting savages despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Perhaps this is because your nation is too young to remember the Great Sophistan Dodgeball War? A strong nuclear deterrent is what prevented a costly war between Sophista and her enemy. Both nations were able to recognize the danger to their peoples and find an alternate venue for their disagreements.

I wish you the best of luck in developing a similar deterrent with conventional weapons.

How would WMDs work against terrorists? That's like using a grenade to cut a cake. And how do you define MASS? As to us the loss of one person or car or boat or building is MASSIVE enough to give rise to want to ban the weapons used to perform the destructive action.

A butter knife in the hands of an insane person is a WMD until they are stopped and if it takes a person with a toothpick to stop them; then we would want somebody to have a toothpick and know how to use it to stop the insane from using their butter knife.

Weapons do not kill it takes a living being to use one to kill another. Any weapon is one of mass destruction when it is used wrong. Anything can become a weapon if it is used wrong.. Educating citizens in the safe use and proper care for handling weapons is the first means to stop weapons abuse then laws to clearly set how they are to be used and not to be used should be set and enforced. All who fail to follow those set laws need be tried and punished under the terms of the law they break.

The member from Catawaba correctly touched on the real issue here: that a ban of WMD from all NSUN members clearly only creates a greater global imbalance, and would be destined to fail.

Many nations around our world do subscribe to the MAD principle, rightly or wrongly.

To ban WMD from only NSUN nations, would create a huge power shift, denying NSUN members from (rightly or wrongly) maintaining the balance.

Luckily the OP seems to have disappeared. Perhaps he is proposal writing, but I suspect he has simply withdrawn from this debate.

Your horribly detached world-view aside, there is nothing aggressive or phallic about a strong national defense. Perhaps if you spent more time examining the world's realpolitik and less time dreaming of phalluses you would understand that conventional weapons are by no means an appropriate deterrent to a well-armed and numerically superior force.

I find it amusing that you choose to unfairly characterize the Sophistan people as blood-lusting savages despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Perhaps this is because your nation is too young to remember the Great Sophistan Dodgeball War? A strong nuclear deterrent is what prevented a costly war between Sophista and her enemy. Both nations were able to recognize the danger to their peoples and find an alternate venue for their disagreements.

I wish you the best of luck in developing a similar deterrent with conventional weapons.
Thank you very much! But, I fear you've misconstrued our position. It's not that an unconventional deterrent should be supplanted with a conventional deterrent: it's that the need for deterrence itself should be eliminated, by coming together in the community of nationhood.

Our nation was indeed not a part of the UN during the time of the Great Dodgeball War, although we are of course familiar with its general characteristics. So far as I can see, it only goes to illustrate the point: had Sophistan demands that their EEZ be respected been less rigid, or had the Frisbeeterian delegation been more willing to seek a compromise, the stand-off would have been unnecessary. Besides, is it necessarily the case that even a case where a nuclear deterrent is the absolute reason for prevention of conventional hostility necessarily outweighs the damage that would be wrought by a nuclear war?
Luckily the OP seems to have disappeared. Perhaps he is proposal writing, but I suspect he has simply withdrawn from this debate.
Well, yes, that's true.

Might it be worth exploring, for a moment though, what we can do? If, at present, opinion is divided on the merit of an absolute ban on nuclear weapons, does that also extend to chemical weapons? To all types of nuclear weapons? For example, would nations not be able to retain their sacred deterrents while prohibiting MIRVs? Even if we accept that realism is the only permissible approach to international relations, an argument for which little justification has been offered, that should not preclude some legislation to limit the possibility of atomic catastrophe.

-- Samantha Benson