NationStates Jolt Archive

When there is some enthusiasm about this idea, I'll shape it to a professionally formulated proposal. The idea:

Saving time at the airport, avoiding a gridlock at the borders and, more importantly, giving all members and its inhabitants the feeling of absolute freedom and hospitality. The Miniconomy Region, as represented by the Free Land of Setswana, feel that the borders between UN Members, even when separated by air or water boundaries, should be opened to all personal transportation, meaning that passports do not have to be shown and road/water vehicles are not systematically checked out anymore.
Of course a nation will still have the freedom to reinstate border customs when national security temporarily (!) demands so.

I was thinking that this proposal should be filed under 'International Security', with a 'significant' effect. Please give your comments. I know I'm new to all this, so I might've missed a similar proposal - in that case, I'm sorry for wasting your time.

I now realize International Security primarily focuses on boosting police and military budgets. I can't find another category it would fit in better either. Free trade I think is the best category then. Of course the influence is still significant.

We prefer to control our own borders, thank you very much.

Hayden Seigfried blinked slowly and took of his glasses. "What you are proposing, sir...is that we take travelers at their word about their country of residence? They don't need to show passports, so they would just need to say that they were from a United Nation member country."

Hayden glanced down at his desk for a moment before looking back up. "I can not tell you how loud my government would yell when they hear this one. It's utterly insane, sir. Were there no conflicts in the world this would be the best open-arms gestures, but the potential for abuse is ridiculous."

"Catawaba is utterly opposed to the proposal."

I must agree with my colleague Prince Rhodri. This proposal isn't about the free flow of goods and services, but the free movement of people. A nation must retain the right to control the passage of foreign nationals across its borders. As most of you know I'm strongly in favor of international commerce and free trade, but that doesn't include the unrestricted movement of persons.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Delegate, Antarctic Oasis
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

I fail to see how this idea could even be remotely considered as improving international security. If anything it would make nations less secure as you would be unable to prohibit known criminals from entering your nation.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

No. No. And no for a third time! Karianis would withdraw from the UN in the space of a blink if such a resolution were to pass. Not only would this completely ruin any chance at national security for -any- UN country, but it runs totally counter to my own homeland's determination to remain pure, and keep our citizenry pure! I would not only vote against this resolution, I would actively fight against it in every way possible. Please spare us all this foolishness and drop the idea now.

Serifina Karin
Ambassador to the United Nations
Sacred Kingdom of Karianis

The Free Land of Psyconauts do not believe there is a need for Open Borders among all UN nations. If anything, citizens of such nations may feel insecure of letting strangers from supposed allied nations freely walk into the nation without any form of identification. I believe it would also make nations seem insignificant....open borders for all UN nations essentially would lead to the UN becoming a superior government that passes laws of which should be left to local nation governments to decide on. Don't let the UN become a superpower government. Instead, the UN should be a basic guideline for all nations.

St. Albert
UN Representative

Peanutis likes the idea :)

Peanutis
Citizen of the region: miniconomy(.com)

I think it's a great porposal from the Free land of Setswana.

Most of all i like the idea that all my citizens can have the feeling that they are free to go in everywhere in the United Nations.

Although, i agree with Mr. Flibbleites that it would not improve the International Security and that it would be bad for the National Security. When that problem could be solved you got my vote.

"Gentlemen," The Setswana ambassador paused and rose from his chair. He sounded disappointed, continuing; "gentlemen, this proposal shall never contribute to increased insecurity or an impure country. It is all a matter of goodwill and trust!"

He took his glasses off, waving wildly with his hands.
"As a UN Member, the Free Land of Setswana trusts its allies unconditionally. We are a group of countries united not only to keep out all bad things, but also to allow all good things. How can one ever speak of a Union when it has closed borders?

By accepting this proposal the United Nations agree that they do not consider each other as threats. It is the first step to forming a trustful community without paranoia and suspicion." He turned around, now facing the Catawaba delegate, and he carefully looked for the right words.
"You, my dear colleague, speak of abusing this system. You speak of conflicts in this world. But within the UN these conflicts, this abuse could never occur. There is an enormous community performing social control and, when in emergencies, a country may close its gates nonetheless. Only direct traffic from another UN country will experience these open borders and Setswana, for one, trusts its neighbouring UN allies. You should too!"

After this, the embassador returned to his seat, mumbling about how mr. Flibble should have noticed his earlier words and also might want to take a more cooperative stance.

Seigfried was quiet for a moment. He looked down at his table before looking back up at the ambassador from Setswana. "Sir, I admire your optimism. Catawaba would wish that the world that you envision were true. That peace were the dominate love and goal of all peoples and that crime was a rarity that all opposed with their hearts. However that is not this world, sir."

Hayden sighed and ran a hand through his thinning black hair. "I have been here at the UN only a little longer than you, but I have sat in every discussion of proposals and spoken in many of them. I have seen the motives that drive some United Nations members and there by, I believe, I have seen their hearts. There is no requirement in application to the UN that you be a good person. You need only follow the resolutions so far pasted or be damned good at hiding your trangressions."

"Even allowing United Nation member states the benefit of the doubt, my fears of abuse stem from non-UN states. All they would need do is infilitrate one UN memeber state and then travel onto anywhere they pleased. We could not demand identification or proof of their claims to citizenship from an UN member"

Siegfried shrugged. "You look to open arms and spread acceptance. Catawaba will support the spirit of the idea, but we will not throw open our borders and tear down our most basic defenses."

"Gentlemen," The Setswana ambassador paused and rose from his chair. He sounded disappointed, continuing; "gentlemen, this proposal shall never contribute to increased insecurity or an impure country. It is all a matter of goodwill and trust!"

He took his glasses off, waving wildly with his hands.
"As a UN Member, the Free Land of Setswana trusts its allies unconditionally. We are a group of countries united not only to keep out all bad things, but also to allow all good things. How can one ever speak of a Union when it has closed borders?

By accepting this proposal the United Nations agree that they do not consider each other as threats. It is the first step to forming a trustful community without paranoia and suspicion." He turned around, now facing the Catawaba delegate, and he carefully looked for the right words.
"You, my dear colleague, speak of abusing this system. You speak of conflicts in this world. But within the UN these conflicts, this abuse could never occur. There is an enormous community performing social control and, when in emergencies, a country may close its gates nonetheless. Only direct traffic from another UN country will experience these open borders and Setswana, for one, trusts its neighbouring UN allies. You should too!"

After this, the embassador returned to his seat, mumbling about how mr. Flibble should have noticed his earlier words and also might want to take a more cooperative stance.

You want me to take a "more cooperative stance" on a proposal the very idea of which I find completely abhorrent. Yeah, that'll be the day. As the Catawaban delegation pointed out, you don't have to be nice to join the UN. And even if the government of a nation are the nicest in the world, it doesn't mean that the entire population of that nation is nice.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Of course a nation will still have the freedom to reinstate border customs when national security temporarily (!) demands so.. We think that so long as one nation is not a member of the UN that 'temporarily' will become 'indefinatly' even if this is ever passed into a resolution. As long as there is one nation outside the UN we feel it is a threat to our national security so when you have ALL nations as members of the UN then we will open our borders should this be passed otherwise they are closed for national security reasons. You want to come in follow the laws as established and be prepared to show proper identification and proof of citizenship and face a good check of just who you are, where you're from, where you've been, and why you are wanting to visit us. Think we are to strict on you then visit some place else....

Hardballs Nooonuts,
Minister of Security

We have fine strong ropes for any and all those who come into our land illegaly and there are still plenty of good tall trees to hang them from. Our policies are established and those who wish to visit must comply with them.

General Moses Arkman,
Commander Cavirrian Border Guard

UN aid Ray Ace straightened his tie and entered the heated discussion.

"I still don't quite clearly follow the intentions of this proposal. An idea that could become great has been badly butchered and presented poorly. Now, as a devouted supporter of free trade, I can see how this may benefit capitalist nations. Less times spent at checkpoints and customs, shorter lines, fewer paperwork to be done; this will do wonders for many businesses such as tourism and transportation. But, and I'm being brutally honest, this proposal has been executed with not so much as a thought to what it may appear as to the UN. With some tweaking and the right wording, The Incorporated States of Kers will vote for this proposal. That is, if it gets rewritten."

Ray Ace took finished. He quenched his thirst with a glass of water and waited for a response.

"Gentlemen," The Setswana ambassador paused and rose from his chair. He sounded disappointed, continuing; "gentlemen, this proposal shall never contribute to increased insecurity or an impure country. It is all a matter of goodwill and trust!"

He took his glasses off, waving wildly with his hands.
"As a UN Member, the Free Land of Setswana trusts its allies unconditionally. We are a group of countries united not only to keep out all bad things, but also to allow all good things. How can one ever speak of a Union when it has closed borders?

By accepting this proposal the United Nations agree that they do not consider each other as threats. It is the first step to forming a trustful community without paranoia and suspicion." He turned around, now facing the Catawaba delegate, and he carefully looked for the right words.
"You, my dear colleague, speak of abusing this system. You speak of conflicts in this world. But within the UN these conflicts, this abuse could never occur. There is an enormous community performing social control and, when in emergencies, a country may close its gates nonetheless. Only direct traffic from another UN country will experience these open borders and Setswana, for one, trusts its neighbouring UN allies. You should too!"

After this, the embassador returned to his seat, mumbling about how mr. Flibble should have noticed his earlier words and also might want to take a more cooperative stance.
The other ambassadors could take a polite line with the man, Serifina, after staring for a moment, simply could not, bursting out "Are you an optimist? Or just a moron? There's no 'enormous community' controlling anything here. Just because you belong to the UN doesn't mean that all the criminals have magically vanished from your country. Just because we share the UN with you doesn't automatically make you pure enough to come into our country. And trust isn't granted, it's earned, and frankly, from what I've seen here in the UN in my time as ambassador, I wouldn't let ninety percent of you in, and I'm lenient by Karian standards!"

The red-haired ambassador takes a deep breath, then says, much more calmly
adds, "In a perfect world, this proposal would not just be a good idea, it would already exist. But this world is not perfect, no matter how we try to make it so. As such, this proposal is simple foolishness, and anyone who looks at the simple realities of life will understand that."

Serifina Karin
Ambassador
Sacred Kingdom of Karianis

I rise to ask some simple questions of those in favor of this proposal. Do you lock your doors at night? Do you keep your funds in a bank or laying about your house? Do you have a police force or army?

Travel and relationships are established by trust, and that trust is built on diplomacy, these halls have many countries we trust and have developed trade and travel routes with, they have some countries I don't trust with my garbage. Simply joining the UN doesn't mean your nations goals match mine nor does it mean your people and mine are compatible. The debates that happen over slavery, sapient rights, and the like prove that to an almost crystalline degree.

Our boarders are currently as open as they will ever be. We trust, however we verify and will continue to verify. My first and foremost responsibility is to the citizens of my nation, and truth be told, I don't trust them all of the time.

Nigel S Youlkin
USoP UN Ambassador

After lunch break, the Setswana ambassador once again took the floor. "We have been sensing a lot of resistance against this idea, most of it inspired by the fear of non-UN nations invading the UN. Being a hospitable region, the nations of Miniconomy had not realized the craving for purity by many governments, which caused our partial disagreement on this point."

He coughed - being used to the sultry Setswana climate, he caught a cold. "We might have looked at the future too early. There is one proposal that should be accepted by the UN first: a call on each member to intensely protect its non-UN borders and help its UN neighbours with protection as well. Once the outside borders of the UN are required to be closely monitored, we can always think about opening up the inside borders of the UN.

I therefore freeze this subject and open a new discussion in a short while. You'll hear from the Free Land of Setswana again!" Immediately after these words, the ambassador sat down and started writing a new proposal.

Take off the rose colored glasses you twit. The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites will never support a proposal that opens our borders to any Tom, Dick, or Kennyite who wants to cross.

Brandon Flibble
Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites

Although the original speaker for this proposal has stated to let this proposal pass, and many of the arguments contra have already been expressed, the count raises, and makes known his desire to speak to the assembly: "My worthy colleagues, the principality would never agree to any such measure. We do recognise that there are some standards that can be expected to be shared by the NSUN members, but as has been pointed out, there are those that will and do try to find any way to circumvent those resolutions they think unnecessary. Moreover, it is not, I would like to stress, like my dear colleague before me, the case that the trust of the nation equals the trust of its inhabitants, who may well be members of any non-national aggressive organisation, or criminals. Therefore, we resent the idea on the ground of principle; there is no way we can effectively protect our citizens, if we cannot control our borders.
Think of it this way; if we would make a proposal to oblige you to open your skin - imagine this can be done painlessly - in several places so as to profit from the air and the positive micro-organisms therein, would you not oppose this? You would, for fear of all negative elements, that would send you to the doctor, and would have you spend enormous amounts on medication you would not have needed if you hadn't agreed to the proposal.
We hope you can see our side of the argument, and with that, the side of the majority that has spoken before me.
Moreover, but that is merely a personal, romantic observation, it would eliminate what is now an essential part of travel; a fact which we would deplore.
I surrender the ground."

OOC: I actually do think it takes away from the experience of travel; I've felt this way ever since the EU did away with the borders.

"Mr. Flibble, you have expressed your opinion in this matter before and in a slightly more subtle way. There apparently are some words in your vocabulary not fit for these floors and we would sincerely appreciate you considering your words more wisely. Thank you."

"Mr. Flibble, you have expressed your opinion in this matter before and in a slightly more subtle way. There apparently are some words in your vocabulary not fit for these floors and we would sincerely appreciate you considering your words more wisely. Thank you."

Apparently, you have me confused with someone else. I have only spoken on this proposal once. I am Brandon Flibble, the Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites. The first person to speak on this idea was my brother Bob Flibble, our nation's UN Representative. Since he was apparently unable to convince you of the idiocy of your idea, he called me in to try.

I fail to see any need whatsoever to implement this policy which might spur instability and insecurity in our state.I am all for free trade ,yes,but not to vote for something that doesn't distinguish citizenry is foolish.
Hence,our region is fully against this policy which seeks to denounce our peoples pride in their own respective countries.Also with this ,security would be of paramount concern because everything is passport-free! Imagine terrorists infiltrating our borders and bombing key headquaters for our MNCs and Government offices! Billions of dollars would be lost!
I urge countries here who value pride in thier citizens citizenry and who values peace,to support this idea.

Lord Norman Wolfowitz
Prime Minister
TheElitists
UN delegate
ConservativeRepublicans

Work things about between yourself before you bother us with it, please.

Work things about between yourself before you bother us with it, please.

We are not entirely sure to whose response you are referring, but feel that if it is to the nation of Flibbleites, they have already done that.

Now, what I really wanted to say, is that this proposal opens the door for border criminality: no controls at the borders gives criminals an opportunity to quickly make their move on one side of the border, and return; it is very difficult to trace the precise authors of the crime, and may be the cause of disturbance between two heretofore friendly nations. Hence, we feel that it not only diminishes national peace and safety, but has the potential to create international incidents. It is our firm opinion that this august body has come into being, however, to diminish the potential for international conflict, by exactly deciding on international guidelines.
Concluding, not only does this proposal seem detrimental to the peace of mind of both our populace and our police force, it moreover seems to have at least the potential of being contrary to the general purpose of this organisation.

Please excuse me while I roll all these troops and weapons into your nations in the backs of trucks you can't search.