NationStates Jolt Archive

The United Nations,

Noting that increased communication between nations furthers the goal of peace,

Noting that nonviolent competition between nations can ease international tensions,

Noting that increased exposure to other cultures impedes racism,

Noting that sporting events increase trade, reduce obesity and reduce crime,

Hereby:

1. Decrees that an international sports festival henceforth referred to as the Olympics shall be established.

2. Decrees that national participation in the games is voluntary.
-Decrees that every participating nation is able to send at least one athlete/team to participate in the games.

3. Decrees that the Olympics shall be divided into summer and winter games. Defines winter games as those that occur on ice and/or snow, and summer games as those that do not occur on ice and/or snow.

4. Decrees that the summer games will occur every four years and the winter games will also be held every four years, alternating between the two, so that an Olympic games occurs every two years be it winter or summer.

5. Creates an International Olympic Committee, henceforth referred to at the IOC composed of a delegation from every participating nation.
-Mandates that the IOC determines by majority vote: the sports to occur at, rules for, format of competition for, qualifying standards for, necessary amenities for, necessary security for, location of, improvements neeeded for, the Olympic games.
-Mandates that all IOC members will pay a portion of the cost for the games proportional to the Gross National Product of the nations.
-Mandates that the IOC meet at the headquarters of the United Nations.
-Mandates that IOC members take no bribes in exchange for their vote on any issue.
-Mandates that the IOC defines bribe for itself in monetary terms and that no nation be more favored than another.
-Mandates that revenue from the games via ticketing, sponsorship, television, licensing, and all other forms, be contributed to the IOC for operating costs; That any excess revenue be kept in IOC bank accounts and that surpluses amounting to more than the cost of the previous games and be donated to the United Nations.
-Mandates that the IOC may not control local revenues not emanating directly from the Olympic Games.
-Mandates that the IOC define ticketing procedures via majority ratification.

6. Highly Encourages all nations to consider a military attack on the Olympic Games to be an attack on all nations and peace and act accordingly.

Thanks for posting here, but it would be a good idea to hold off on submitting (www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=olympics) a proposal until it has been properly peer-reviewed by members of this forum. You can't change a proposal once it's submitted, and this one contains a few slight illegalities (according to the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=420465)):

5. Creates an International Olympic Committee, henceforth referred to at the IOC composed of a delegation from every participating nation.UN resolutions may not assume the makeup of any created committees, and nations cannot be given a seat on committees. All committees are staffed by mystical beings who bear no allegiance to any nation. Unfortunately, this also deems the following passage illegal:

-Mandates that all IOC members will pay a portion of the cost for the games proportional to the Gross National Product of the nations.
-Mandates that the IOC meet at the headquarters of the United Nations.This sounds like borderline metagaming to me: the UN has never formally established a physical headquarters for itself, either through a resolution or even a universally recognized RP pattern.

6. Highly Encourages all nations to consider a military attack on the Olympic Games to be an attack on all nations and peace and act accordingly.Not convinced of this clause's legality, and it discomforts me besides, even if it is only an encouragement. The UN is not an alliance; members should be under no pressure to respond to an attack on fellow members, or even on UN institutions themselves.

[Edit: And as Flib has already noted (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13407247&postcount=5641), this is miscategorized besides. I'm not even sure what category this would fit under ... Education and Creativity?]

actually, i write,

Decrees that national participation in the games is voluntary.

so comittee participation is anybody who friggin wants, and since the committee will never meet, screw it. i take the rule against writing who is on committees as a rule against giving power to, for example, five of my friends and elevating them above other UN members.

and yeah, i wasnt sure what category either......

This is why you write to the category instead of writing and then trying to pick a category. Just randomly picking doesn't cut it.

actually the olympics does reduce income inequality. the tourism boost caused by the olympics is one of the myriad reasons a nation/city wishes to hold the olympics. the richer nations of the world (especially per capita) send more athletes, trainers, and spectators to the host city and nation and they spend money. the richer nations spend more money than the poorer nations.

i.e. the US is richer than china and will send more athletes than east timor who is poorer. china's economy will benefit, the US economy will be hurt, and east timor's will suffer very little. thus having an equilizing effect on income disparities among nations.

this was my arguement for posting it with that category. if your just complaining about my categorization, suggest a different one, i couldnt find any appropriate one. i do not believe such a category exists.

furthermore, it promotes income inequality as much or more than max barry day promotes education.

You know, from the forum title I thought this might be a good idea, so I was gonna pop in and say something about it, maybe add some comments to improve it... but bleh, you've got a defensive attitude so I'm going to ignore it instead.

yep, im gonna defend my idea. ummmm.......?

OOC: an Olympic committee such as you describe, with national representatives, has already existed in this game's roleplayed side for several years and has run at least two sets of Winter & Summer games...

really? i was not aware.

has it been endorsed by the UN? does it have different objectives than my proposal? is it threatened by my proposal?

OOC: The IOC is seperate from the UN or any other political organisation so I don't think it should be under UNS control here. Its better as a seperate RP event.

is it threatened by my proposal?

Given the limited shot your proposal has... probably not. :-)

Given the limited shot your proposal has... probably not. :-)

yeah........ apparently i should have posted it here first, but fuck it, im new. and i figure if it fails to reach quorum ill just repropose (with any decent modifications that appear necessary) like the repeal metric system.

yeah........ apparently i should have posted it here first, but fuck it, im new. and i figure if it fails to reach quorum ill just repropose (with any decent modifications that appear necessary) like the repeal metric system.

Ah, happens to all of us.

yep, im gonna defend my idea. ummmm.......?

The point here is to take comments and use them to improve your own work, not take comments like an attack and defend yourself. No one's going to want to help someone who acts like that.

You might want to consider that there already ARE Olympics. Two iterations of the summer games, and two of the winter games have been completed. The third winter Olympics have been left hanging, incomplete, due to the fact that hosting them (i.e., generating the results) is an especially difficult and time-consuming task. Only Casari and Commerce Heights have been neurotic (and I use that word in the most complimentary way possible) enough to finish them.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/olympic_games.html
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/winter_olympiad_i.html
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/summer_olympiad_i.html
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/summer_olympiad_ii.html

The point here is to take comments and use them to improve your own work, not take comments like an attack and defend yourself. No one's going to want to help someone who acts like that.

ok, so the comment your refering to was actually me at 2am pissed off due to personal matters, for that i appologize for my ineloquence (i think that's a word). what i should have said, is my defensiveness is in relation to my competitiveness and drive to see this resolution succede, combined with the fact that i am not a fan of the moderators, and believe they are not a fan of me. i believe i was a hair's breadth from having my resolution trashed for classification violations, and had to argue my ass off in order to protect it; kind of a mama bear effect.

furthermore, given that me resolution will most likely fail to make quorum, i welcome constructive criticism with the condition that they realize i am a complete asshole and it is possible that i will disagree with them (as i did the arguement "UN resolutions may not assume the makeup of any created committees, and nations cannot be given a seat on committees. All committees are staffed by mystical beings who bear no allegiance to any nation. Unfortunately, this also deems the following passage illegal:")



as for kesselek, as for st. edwars, i ask if PASSAGE of this resolution threatenes the existence of those games. i will of course, upon my resolution's failing, change the name away from CREATION of olympics to ENdorsement of the olympics. but i know of the existence, and see no reason to make any other editing because of that.

fuck, gotta get to class.

In that case, I think you could possibly get away with classing this as Free Trade:Mild. I'll take a more in-depth look at it when I get home from work.

yeah, the classification still boggles me,

Environmental-makes no sense, the olympics are bad for the environment if anything
Human Rights-no effect
Social Justice, A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.-current classification because it has a minor equalizing effect on the income of different nations as stated above.
Free Trade, A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.-doesnt really reduce barriers as far as i can see.
Furtherment of Democracy-actually gives legitimization to non-democratic states, NKorea, China, Nazi Germany, USSR.... list goes on......
International Security-thought about this one, because the olympics furthers the path of peace most, but then it also says, A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets. and that clearly isnt right.....
Gambling- makes very little sense.....
Global Disarmament- well, the olympics in ancient times stopped wars for the duration of the games.... but that doesnt happen anymore......
Recreatiional Drug Use- not unless youre bode miller (ZING!)
Moral Decency- yeah..... no.
Political Stabillity, A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order. i thought about this one too, because while the olympics promote stabillity by promoting peace and giving legitimization to governments and furthering national sentiments to existing nations (there is no Western Sahara team, so citizens thereof rooting for morrocco are linked to the government and blah blah blah.......). but it doesnt restrict political freedoms.
Gun Control-nope
Advancement of Industry, A resolution to develop industry around the world.-never thought about this until now, but this is actually a possibillity, the reason cities and nations compete to host is the infrastructure improvements (NYNY was going to build a new stadium for the Jets), Liceansing and merchandising implications that actually do a mild job of advancing industry....... very tempting........
Education and Creativity, A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts. yep, i looked at this one, and while the olympics are educational to some extent, "the arts" is so amorphous that i could argue sport is art, but not entirely sure that would be accepted.

So, id love to make a poll, or just here what the Mods think, but which makes the most sense?

Social Justice, A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

Free Trade, A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Advancement of Industry, A resolution to develop industry around the world.

Education and Creativity, A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts.

We were somewhat afraid that this year would see an influx of proposals of this nature. How depressing to have our fears confirmed so soon.

The proposal clearly belongs under the Education and Creativity category, most likely in the Artistic branch as far as we can see. We ourself would prefer not to see it at all, but such is life.

Incidentally, it is just as well that there is next to no likelihood of this proposal making quorum. If there were any chance of it so doing, it would be deleted by a moderator for the illegalities that have been mentioned above, thereby earning its proposer a warning, lest we have a repeat of the fiasco that was Max Barry Day.

Social Justice, A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.-current classification because it has a minor equalizing effect on the income of different nations as stated above.No, not really. Furthermore, it brings in tourism money; it has nothing to do with welfare.


The proposal clearly belongs under the Education and Creativity category, most likely in the Artistic branch as far as we can see.Cultural sounds more like it. However, this still feels of shoehorning.

oooooooooookkkkkkkk.............. ive admitted the categorization confusion, but if youve read the thread youve seen my arguements that it can fit in multiple categories. id love to see a proposal that couldnt. im really confused by "this nature" but then again im also confused by "we"

youve mentioned illegalities, and im confused why.... if your referring to omygodtheykilledkenny's objections,


Quote:
5. (Creates an International Olympic Committee, henceforth referred to at the IOC composed of a delegation from every participating nation.)
UN resolutions may not assume the makeup of any created committees, and nations cannot be given a seat on committees. All committees are staffed by mystical beings who bear no allegiance to any nation. Unfortunately, this also deems the following passage illegal:

im even more confused. should we examine the meaning of the word delegation? because it does not mean any nation actually votes on anything. perhaps we should examine the actuall rule?

"MetaGaming is a difficult to understand category at times, especially since it often shares jurisdiction with Game Mechanics violations. Essentially, a MetaGaming violation is one that breaks "the fourth wall", or attempts to force events outside of the UN itself. Proposals dealing with Regions, with other nations, Moderators, and requiring activities on the Forums are examples. This also includes Proposals that try to affect non-UN nations.

* Creating Stuff

Committees may be created, as long as certain things are kept in mind: nations do not sit on committees, they are staffed by mystical beings that instantly spring into existance and live only to serve on said committee. Committees are also bound by the above MetaGame rules. Also, keep in mind that Committees are additions to Proposals; they shouldn't be all the Proposal does."

now one the one hand my proposal does force an olympics to happen.... every two years, and thus after nationstates2. i also dont see how that is any more metagaming than the abolition of slavery.... hell, before this thread i didnt know that there was a NationStates olympics, much less ever think one would happen...

as for the committee as metagaming, note that my proposal is a DELEGATION from any VOLUNTARILY PARTICIPATING NATION. delegation consisting of mystical beings living only to serve on that delegation. i also am not including, or excluding any nation (hell, i dont even exclude non-UN nations), nor am i giving/taking any nation power. even further, the resolution does not "requir{e} activities on the Forums". I dont see how it violates metagaming rules.

same for the location of the UN arguement. i know that this UN does not exist, but it is staffed by mystical beings isnt it? therefore it has to mystically exist, and the IOC can be housed in the same mystical building cant it?

this is not to be defensive. lemme put it this way: i am a noob. if i am violating rules i do not know it. i am looking for an explanation of how i am violating rules, and a real discussion thereof, not just telling me i am. the world is not black and white, and i dont take cyberpeople's word for stuff and stop with my efforts with no explanation.

THANK YOU GLORIOUS HACK!!!!! for a valid comment!!!! perhaps i should ask you straight out, ive outlined four arguements for the resolution fitting into different categories, which one wouldnt make it illegal?

does tourism money= industry and thus it should be in advancement of industry?

(fyi i posted twice in a row because the glorious hack post was not up when i was typing my previous one)

as for kesselek, as for st. edwars, i ask if PASSAGE of this resolution threatenes the existence of those games. i will of course, upon my resolution's failing, change the name away from CREATION of olympics to ENdorsement of the olympics. but i know of the existence, and see no reason to make any other editing because of that.
OOC: Presumably, by "st edwars", you mean me?
No, if a resolution along these lines passed it wouldn't threaten the existence of the current Olympic system... because people roleplaying in the NS & II forums are actually free to ignore the existence of the UN (in the context of those forums) anyway...

Indeed, there wouldn't be any effect. But I wanted to point out that if your goal is to get Olympics going, they already exist in a much more tangible form than a UN resolution could make them exist. I'm not trying to say "this is pointless leave the UN and never come back", I'm just saying this specific effort may just be misdirected.

sweet. no, my intent wasnt to get an olympics going. i never thought that possible and have no idea how they actually are happening (the processing of results just boggles my mind....) im very glad to hear that im not fucking over the people who are doing the olympics.

on another note, i'd like to quote journey, "whooooooooooooo were half way there whoooooOOOOOOO living on a prayer!" yes, i have 1/2 quorum and am celebrating. no i still dont think ill reach quorum, especially since im leaving to baton rouge for the weekend in 8 hrs. thank yall for your advice, im going to rewrite and repropose on monday.

[QUOTE=Decapod Ten;13413387
on another note, i'd like to quote journey, "whooooooooooooo were half way there whoooooOOOOOOO living on a prayer!" yes, i have 1/2 quorum and am celebrating. no i still dont think ill reach quorum, especially since im leaving to baton rouge for the weekend in 8 hrs. thank yall for your advice, im going to rewrite and repropose on monday.[/QUOTE]

OOC: That's Bon Jovi


IC: I'd direct your attention to the current results of your poll.

Considering that, in my country, war is a major part of our business, work is the entire foundation of life, and anyone caught playing sports is shot on sight, we cannot approve this proposal. Well-written, though.

why thank you law abiding criminals. i assume it is intended as a compliment. On Decapod Ten we're fat poor jewish lobsters so sports arent our forte either.

and Philimbesi, yeah..... i figured that option would be the most voted, hell, its the option i chose. really, i was looking more for a debate, and the moderators' opinions, or just a statement of which one isnt illegal. The most glorious hack suggests that the second most popular option is illegal, and im hoping to get a reply.

i find it funny that in the rules it says to value peer review, but so far ive been told to shut the fuck up 9 times, and twice been told to classify it in a category that "still feels of shoehorning."

and of course my poll is one thing, but as Truman and Dewey both know very well, polls dont mean a thing, its the vote that counts.

Please... take a few moments to compose your thoughts before posting. Stream-of-consciousness can be a wonderful form of prose writing, but it makes for nearly unreadable posts.

And the reason you're told to seek peer-review, is if you just run off and submit, you run the risk of eventually being forcefully removed from the UN...

Speaking of, if this survives this update it has a good chance of hitting quorum. Not great, but if it isn't legal now's a good time to look at it.

i find it funny that in the rules it says to value peer review, but so far ive been told to shut the fuck up 9 times, and twice been told to classify it in a category that "still feels of shoehorning."

I'll be honest and admit that I am one of the votes in the STFU option. However I only voted for it because I don't believe that there is an appropriate category for this proposal, nor do I believe that the UN needs to be doing this since apparently it's already being done.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The United Nations,

Noting that increased communication between nations furthers the goal of peace,

Noting that nonviolent competition between nations can ease international tensions,

Noting that increased exposure to other cultures impedes racism,

Noting that sporting events increase trade, reduce obesity and reduce crime,

For the purpose of Educating citizens of the world aobut foreign cultures, and increasing the creativity of the human mind through the art of sport, hereby:

1. Decrees that an international sports festival henceforth referred to as the Olympics shall be established.

2. Decrees that national participation in the games is voluntary.
-Decrees that every participating nation is able to send at least one athlete/team to participate in the games.

3. Decrees that the Olympics shall be divided into summer and winter games. Defines winter games as those that occur on ice and/or snow, and summer games as those that do not occur on ice and/or snow.

4. Decrees that the summer games will occur every four years and the winter games will also be held every four years, alternating between the two, so that an Olympic games occurs every two years be it winter or summer.

5. Creates an International Olympic Committee, henceforth referred to at the IOC composed of a delegation from every participating nation.
-Mandates that the IOC determines by majority vote: the sports to occur at, rules for, format of competition for, qualifying standards for, necessary amenities for, necessary security for, location of, improvements neeeded for, the Olympic games.
-Mandates that all IOC members will pay a portion of the cost for the games proportional to the Gross National Product of the nations.
-Mandates that IOC members take no bribes in exchange for their vote on any issue.
-Mandates that the IOC defines bribe for itself in monetary terms and that no nation be more favored than another.
-Mandates that revenue from the games via ticketing, sponsorship, television, licensing, and all other forms, be contributed to the IOC for operating costs; That any excess revenue be kept in IOC bank accounts and that surpluses amounting to more than the cost of the previous games and be donated to the United Nations.
-Mandates that the IOC may not control local revenues not emanating directly from the Olympic Games.
-Mandates that the IOC define ticketing procedures via majority ratification.

.................................................................................................... ....

yep, so im back, and since i didnt get a warning telegram (i think that's how id get a warning) i assume my resolution did not reach quorum by its previous form. so im back, and am going to try it once more (and only once more, unless it reaches quorum and the mods tell me the category is the only thing illegal, hopefully they tell me before i submit if it would be deemed illegal), and will submit tomorrow a final draft, and will probably be shot down once again. if youre going to post arguing i shouldnt retry, dont expect me to be persuaded.

notable differences: the name does not refer to the creation of the olympics as that is not what it does. Submission Category is Education and Creativity. Deletion of the passage encouraging collective defense of the games.

any more glaring illegalities to be discussed? comments?

OOC: I still think the details of 5 are asking for trouble. It could (and will, believe me) be argued that mandating the IOC's make-up is flat-out illegal -- I think it's at best borderline, and a bad precedent to set -- and the bullet-point about defining bribe in monetary terms is missing out on bribery in kind rather than cash.

yep. its a semi-valid arguement that it violates the rule:

"Committees may be created, as long as certain things are kept in mind: nations do not sit on committees, they are staffed by mystical beings that instantly spring into existance and live only to serve on said committee. Committees are also bound by the above MetaGame rules. Also, keep in mind that Committees are additions to Proposals; they shouldn't be all the Proposal does."

now, whether the mandated delegation violates this is very well up for arguement, id argue that the delegation is composed of mystical beings, just like the UNSC created by UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #50, UN Space Consortium. heck, i dont even create a superior board within the IOC that elevates one nation above another.

"A Provisional Board of Directors (“Provisional Board”) shall be composed of a representative from each nation participating in the U.N.S.C. immediately following the passage of this resolution. The Provisional Board will then proceed to elect a permanent Board of Directors (“Board”). No sale of stock shall occur before the seating of the Board."

and now im waiting to vote on 'repeal UN Space Consotrium' that might come from this discussion.

as for bribery, ill work on clearing that language up a bit.... i mean define a gift in monetary terms above which is a bribe, e.g. mailmen in the US cant take more than a $20 valued gift...... as if anybody wants to bribe a common mailman....

UNSC predates the existing rule set. Using it to defend your Proposal won't work.

touche...... when did that rule set come into effect?

call me paranoid, call me confused, but i actually sense a tone from your post, a tone that makes me think you would 'nook' my proposal on those grounds... granted you havent told me this, but you also havent told me a single category that definitively isnt illegal.

...
5. Creates an International Olympic Committee, henceforth referred to as the IOC.
-Mandates that the IOC be an egalitarian and cosmopolitan organization perfectly representative of the collective will of the participant nations in every decision.
...

now, this language might be less likely to be struck down by a mod, yet it is truly unrealistic and impossible. I believe it necessary to determine the composition of the IOC because it is possible to infer that it is the host nation, or the UN, or other things that run the games. i thought designating a delegation from every participant nation still used the mystical beings, yet presented a way to give control of the games to participant nations. if it is illegal, then impossible feats might be the way to accomplish that.

touche...... when did that rule set come into effect?Oh, I dunno. Check the date on the first post of the rules.

now, this language might be less likely to be struck down by a mod, yet it is truly unrealistic and impossible.So is the NSUN. Your language isn't unrealistic and impossible so much as utterly unnecessary. Look at some of the more recent Resolutions; none of them define the make-up of their committees. Do you assume that they're actively trying to screw member nations?

I'm sorry I'm confused, last year my president placed fourth (I think) in the luge competition of the winter Olympics... are you telling me that didn't happen because they haven't been created yet?

WE ALREADY HAVE THE OLYMPICS... MOVE ON. In addition, there's no purpose for creating such a think in the UN. Short of saying hey that's the Olympics aren't they great... there's really nothing for us to do.


Nigel S Youlkin
USoP UN Ambassador (and Badminton Champion)

WE ALREADY HAVE THE OLYMPICS... MOVE ON. In addition, there's no purpose for creating such a think in the UN.

Lots of UN members also have Human Rights provisions, environmental laws, extradition treaties, and any number of other things we routinely legislate. Pre-existing conditions are no bar to new UN proposals, and never have been. If he wants to keep working on it, that's his choice.

OOC: Fair enough, I apologize for my outburst. However, I still feel as though this is an II or Gameplay issue.

Oh, I dunno. Check the date on the first post of the rules.

no shit. so then the "[Now Binding]" part of the title is irrelevant and unnecessary?

So is the NSUN.

and increasing realism is a bad thing? isnt the purpose of the rule not to give one nation more power than another, to create organizations other than the UN that have legislative authority? yeah, the whole NS world, and NSUN in particular are unnecessary and unrealistic, i agree, so what harm was designating the composition of a committee that will never meet? we've already seen that this proposal, if adopted, wont interfere in any way with the occurring Olympics, and regulating the olympics is the only power the committee had!

Your language isn't unrealistic and impossible so much as utterly unnecessary. Look at some of the more recent Resolutions; none of them define the make-up of their committees. Do you assume that they're actively trying to screw member nations?

there is a difference between actively trying to screw nations, and actively preventing nations from being screwed. the entire point of voting is to allow the constituents opinions to be represented. bureaucracy does not have the same protections. There's a reason the actual IOC, actual UN, actual EU, actual NATO, all have nations represented by a delegation instead of a bureaucracy; its because OTHERWISE nations get screwed!

you'll notice i removed the passage being discussed. this is because NSUN is a black v. white world and you are the definer of what's what.

no shit. so then the "[Now Binding]" part of the title is irrelevant and unnecessary? You want to be snarky? Be snarky. Just do it without my input.