NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm going to go ahead and start a new thread for this.

Description: UN Resolution #20: 'RBH' Replacement (Category: Social Justice; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: Whereas the United Nations is committed to effective legislation.

Understanding that RBH Replacement was an administrative move in the early days of the UN.

Noting that Required Basic Healthcare(RBH) was repealed by Resolution 102.

Further noting that RBH Replacement relied heavily upon that repealed document to outline its intentions.

Believing that RBH Replacement itself does nothing at all to modify healthcare.

Accepting that the repeal of this piece of legislation will in no way affect healthcare.

Hereby repeals RBH Replacement.

The original document that started this all was Required Basic Healthcare (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7029615&postcount=18), an overly complex document. It did a whole bunch of things that the UN didn't like, so they passed RBH Replacement (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7029623&postcount=21) to fix it. Normally this wouldn't be a problem. It was, after all, a long time ago, long before we even had the a repeal process. However, someone eventually passed a repeal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8873901&postcount=103) of Required Basic Healthcare, and despite that, RBH Replacement was left on the books. Again, normally this wouldn't be a problem.

The problem itself stems from the fact that RBH replacement relies heavily on the original(and now repealed) resolution. Therefore, upon closer examination it does exactly nothing. I'm asking you to support my repeal, in order to help clean up the UN's books of an old and ultimately useless resolution.

I appreciate the support I've gotten thus far in getting this to Quorum, and I'll yield the floor now to anyone who has a comment.

Karshkovia must state that we agree with your findings and we would support a repeal of 'RBH' Replacement.

I demand a poll.

Done!

Solensina Tadefta, head of the Safalran UN Delegation, writes:

We disagree with the assessment of the respected ambassador George Willing of The Dourian Embassy. We do not believe that the repeal of UN Resolution #17: Required Basic Healthcare (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-browser/?resolution=17) affects UN Resolution #20: 'RBH' Replacement (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-browser/?resolution=20). Clause 2 of Resolution #20 defines Resolution #18 to be a 'reference document resolution'; a definition we believe to be entirely compatible with its repealed status - specifically, that it is not enforced but is still recorded by the UN and is hence available as a reference to other nations. Clause 3 of Resolution #20 proceeds to enact entirely new legislation.

We do, however, regard Resolution #20 as deeply flawed. Specifically, the sentence "The working populace within each nation should be granted healthcare for supporting their nation's economy" implies that healthcare is earned by serving the nation's economy, rather than being an inalienable right. We further believe that while there is a place for resolutions encouraging action rather than requiring it, healthcare free at the point of use is too important an issue for legislation to be non-binding.

Therefore, while we disagree with the text of this repeal we will support it as the repeal of Resolution #20 may encourage more comprehensive legislation on this subject at a later date.

To Safalra

I believe someone else said it best, in the name of not infringing upon national sovereignty too much, it doesn't do anything at all except give a gentle nudge. With the original resolution repealed normally, it's even more gentle of a nudge.

"After reading Resolution 195, Healthcare Certification (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-browser/?resolution=195), and its goal of funding health care programs in poor nations in return for UN oversight over those programs and ensuring the effectiveness of those programs, it seems that "health care" has already been dealt with effectively in the NSUN.

We therefore conclude that Resolution #20 is no longer necessary even for any sort of 'encouragment' to having "universal health care", and apologize to the delegate from Douria for even thinking #20 had any sort of use. After all, we have a commitee that is funded via voluntary donations to help nations have health care access. What can go wrong? And any nation that DOESN'T want to provide its citizens with good health care coverage will likely enough find loopholes and basically ruin their population.

If the NSUN body wishes to address the 'Health Care' problem though, I'd highly recommend doing it along the lines of 'Healthcare Certification'."

---Dr. Bob

I believe someone else said it best, in the name of not infringing upon national sovereignty too much, it doesn't do anything at all except give a gentle nudge.
We were slightly more scathing than that. Our equivalant sentence finished before the 'except'.

It really doesn't do anything at all. Although it contains certain recommendations, they don't even seem to have the force of 'Recommends x...'; they're just mentioned for the hell of it.

The Quintessential Health Service is an institution we are deeply proud of. Equally we recognise not all nations can afford, would be suited by, or are desirous of a national health service funded through taxation. There is surely some reasonable middle ground for international legislation; Resolution #20 is but a speck of sand, however, and we will support this repeal when it comes to vote.

-- Dr Luc whateverthehellIsaidhissurnamewas
Head, Quintessential Red Star Organization

We would support this resolution the RBH replacement is essentially toothless.

Your logic is well presented, we support the repeal. Bring on the official vote please.

And we're at vote.

Good luck Douria.

Thanks Douria.

A good piece of legislation. Ice Forge votes FOR

Congradulations, old boy, on getting this to vote. The Palentine loves to see old useless legislation get weeded out. We are also hoping that the trolls will stay away. If they don't then never fear. As a former Palentine Marine I am prepared....

*reaches into drawer, and places his Colt 1911a on the desk*

...and for those trolls who persist, I've got the Vecelaraptor stopper...

*reaches into another drawer and places S&W .500 Magnum in desk*

excelsior,
Sen Horatio Sulla

Agregorn is against senseless laws that serve to complicate and otherwise needlessly tax the population. We are for this. We would like to go on to state that entitlements and arguments based on unalienable rights are subjective ideology, and that further traveling down this path will lead to an equal opportunity for all people to suffer, not just the poor. No one should be granted an advantage simply by being born. By the same right, no one should be punished for being born. Agregorn is not for social elitism or social Darwinism by any means, but we feel a state should only help those that help themselves. I, personally, am eager to hear how a competitive system can be created that allows for a universal health advantage while not being a grievous encumbrance that serves only the extreme rich and non-working class. On the subject at hand, again, we are very pleased to see the UN observing good common sense by suggesting this repeal.

Congradulations, old boy, on getting this to vote. The Palentine loves to see old useless legislation get weeded out. <snip>

excelsior,
Sen Horatio Sulla


I'm quite sure the Palentine would love to see all legislation weeded out.:D

I would also like to state that Joebot and I will be looking for trolls. We have ways of dealing with them. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Though we believe that basic healthcare is a basic human right, the United Kingdom of Brutland and Norden votes FOR the repeal.

M.R.S.

We're happy to see that this resolution hasn't encountered a lot of opposition. Although a spirited debate would certainly be more interesting than a snooze-fest, an easy vote like this is still, easy. Upholding the basic principle of quality control in international law is an essential task of which any good legislator is mindful, and it does on occasion require some housekeeping to clear out the waste. We applaud the Dourian delegation's efforts in that regard.

The Federal Republic votes FOR this resolution.

Cdr. Jenny Chiang
Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations

Well isn't this turning out to be a "lively" debate? I would like to personally thank the Dourian delegation for introducing such a boring piece of legislation.;)

Ignoratio elenchi.(OOC::D) Let it be known that Zarquon Froods votes FOR.

We are still ready for any attempt to cause disruption in the voting. The Chicken Clucker 2100 and 5/8 is standing by.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Holy Empire of Imota

While the administration of Her Imperial Majesty Empress Lania I agrees with the resolution to be repealed and that basic healthcare is a right, we wholeheartedly support the Dourian delegation in their efforts to clean house and cull unnecessary laws from the books.

The Holy Empire of Imota votes FOR the repeal.

Burgen Alsonis, Ambassador to the United Nations

Well, it seems quite sensible. I don't see any reason not to support this repeal.

~ Hari Desana

OOC: Dare I suggest the main reason we're not getting droves of people arguing against it might be because the fluffies don't know what RBH stands for?

Goobergunchia will be voting in favor.

Darren Funkel
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Sponsor, "Outlaw Pedophilia"

We're a long-time fan of rigorous, even vigorous, arguments supporting repeals. This one seems a might thin. However, given the impotence of the resolution targeted for repeal, perhaps there's no reason to erect a lengthy, turgid argument.

Absent hue and cry within our region, we will be voting FOR.

Leetha Talone
Ambassador to the UN

The Oppressed Peoples of Depression-ville would like to formally lodge a protest against this repeal.

Being a non-UN member nation, we believe that sensibility and reason are things that we should all do away with. This repeal is sensible, and reasonable, and we refuse to stand for it!

As Dictator for the Oppressed Peoples, and the owner of an oversized ego, I declare this repeal "Terribly sensible".

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm to oversee the execution of the picketers outside my office, begging me to join the UN.

OOC: Dare I suggest the main reason we're not getting droves of people arguing against it might be because the fluffies don't know what RBH stands for?


I just figured it stood for Really Bad Hair... ;)

<snip>

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm to oversee the execution of the picketers outside my office, begging me to join the UN.

Allow Joebot to help you out of the assembly.

Joebot grabs for the prospective Ambassador for Depression-Ville, and carries him to window where he looks back to the judge waiting for the signal.

You refuse to stand for this repeal, perhaps you will feel better falling for it. *He waves to Joebot, and the dictator is sent flying out the window and lands in the reflecting pool below.*

The two proceed back to their seats and break out a game of Monopoly™.

The Oppressed Peoples of Depression-ville would like to formally lodge a protest against this repeal.

Being a non-UN member nation,

If you're not a UN member why do you care?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

OOC: Dare I suggest the main reason we're not getting droves of people arguing against it might be because the fluffies don't know what RBH stands for?I would say not. The floor debate for Repeal "Required Basic Healthcare" itself wasn't very exciting either. It went on for four whole pages.

If you're not a UN member why do you care?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Perhaps the "Depression-ville" in question is a really, really boring place and their delegates needed something to do? It sounds like a boring place from the name.

Oh, and Altanar will be voting in favor of this repeal.

Ikir Askanabath, Ambassador

I have cast my government's vote in favour of this repeal.

Pinocchio Collodi,
Ambassador.

If you're not a UN member why do you care?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Being the dictator of such an incredibly depressing nation, can you blame him? His emigration rate is only going to continue to rise, with "Sensible and reasonable" repeals, such as this one. He's going to combat it as much as possible, despite how tiny his voice may be.

Of course, since the Empire of Thawmus also occupies that region, and is constantly having to reinforce its borders, I cannot help but relish the idea of opposing his Psychotic Dictatorship.

The Empire is FOR the repeal.

We, The Conoly of Martian Supriorety agree with this repeal, this document relys t much on a unnecessary and flawed document! We will backup this resolution, and we will back it up with force! :mp5: :sniper: (OOC: :D)

I see no reason not to vote for this repeal. The law it repeals is effectively obsolete anyway.

If you're not a UN member why do you care?You saying we aren't welcome around here?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Tindalos/UN/Verm.jpg
Vermithrax Pejorative
UN Observer
The Federated Technocratic Oligarchy of the Most Glorious Hack

Wait a sec, is an argument about to break out?

*gets the marshmallows*

First she said I wasn't to do so much as scratch my ... nose ... without her permission.

Then she said it was about time I found out what it was like to be responsible for something more than the colour of my makeup -- which, incidentally, I don't have to slather on inches deep, not having any huge wrinkles and humungous shadows under my eyes -- and a session as Minister for Foreign Affairs might convince me she was serious.

So when I asked her what was a responsible attitude to take on this vote, she said, "Can't you make up your own mind about anything?"

Right.

In the absence of any form of decisive leadership at senior levels of government (a lack very likely predicated on the imminent onset of dementia due to the combined onslaughts of age and alcohol), and enthusiastically recognising the need to clean out the dead wood from all organisations from time to time, I hereby cast Ardchoille's vote FOR the repeal.

So there, Madame Reilly!

-- Avaya Thibaudet, wrongfully Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ardchoille.

I see no reason not to vote for this repeal. The law it repeals is effectively obsolete anyway.

My friend, it is always good to get rid of dead wood in the lawbooks. After its gone we evil conservatives can concentrate on removing worthier legislation. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla
(Now with 50% more unwholesomeness)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Leetha steps across the aisle and gives Sulla a slap across the face.

Snap out of it, Horatio, you're becoming hysterical. You'll scare the children.

After pouring the increasingly unwholesome senator another three fingers of Wild Turkey, she goes back across the aisle and returns to marking up the open-season insurance enrollment brochure.

Bastards, raising co-pay again this year.

You saying we aren't welcome around here?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Tindalos/UN/Verm.jpg
Vermithrax Pejorative
UN Observer
The Federated Technocratic Oligarchy of the Most Glorious Hack

Of course not, I'm just asking why they care how we vote on resolutions when they're not going to be affected by them.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Of course not, I'm just asking why they care how we vote on resolutions when they're not going to be affected by them.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Decidedly OOC: In our family, I'm the meanie who won't let the other NS users of our computer have a UN nation, no matter how much they carry on. Doesn't mean that your nations can't post in the UN, though, I tell 'em snootily. Your opinion might sway a vote, you know.

Other families have meanies too.

The delegation from Zarquon Froods had managed to secure an oversized Monopoly board. It was large enough to cover the entire center of the chamber, and came with over-sized tokens (game pieces) that were large enough to accomodate the player sitting in them and were fully operational. The dice were just plain old fuzzy dice that once hung from Zarquon's private space vessel's vanity mirror.

"I'm the Car." Judge Norton proclaimed.

"Fine, I'm the Cannon." Joebot responded.

They rolled to see who was first. The judge won, and rolled and drove the car Community Chest waving his arms in the air as if he were riding a roller coaster. He reached into the chest and pulled a card that said "Go directly to jail. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200 Liffers." Suddenly the door of the chamber flung open and a mini police wagon screemed into the GA complete with sirens and began to chase Norton who had took off like a rocket in his car.

After several laps around the room, the officers managed to spin Norton out and take him to the lower corner of the board for incarciration where a very large iron cage fell and locked him in place.

"Psst. Joebot, you gotta spring me. I'm innocent, those charges were bogus. That officer arrested singled me out for driving down a sidewalk. That's profiling and it's not withstanding in court. Now get me out of here."

"As you wish." Joebot aimed his cannon at the cage and blew off the door.

"I'm free. I'm free. In your face you over zealous facist pigs." Norton said as he climbed to the window sill. "You will always remember this as the day that you almost caught Judge Joshua A. Nor......."

The judge ended his sentence prematurely as he leaned back and fell out the window into the pool below. Joebot hung his head and sighed.




OOC: Well what else are we suppose to do?:D

I call the top hat!

seems like a landslide is happening in the vote, interesting.

Sir Cyril sits in the general assembly, watching the voting and the intense debate. Or, more accurately, distinct lack of tense debate, and the very long queue infront of the "FOR" booth. He notices the Zarquonian delegates playing Monopoly, and a slight argument over non-members discussing points of UN legislation, before turning back to the entire Cobdenian delegation.

"I'll see your florin, and raise you half a crown" he said, confident that the "Sod This I'm Invading Chechnya", "Geez...not this this shit again!", "Moo Oink Squee Squee" and "And I'd Like Threesome With Tatu, But It Isn't Going to Happen" was a good hand.

However, he hadn't reckoned on Grytpype-Thynne's coniving ways

"I'll see you're half a crown, and raise you..." he felt around in his pockets

"...urm...four pence, urm...a handkercheif, and ...aha...half a muntjac"

gladly vote for, so we can clean up the books and make the ones that violate people's rights more easily visible for elimination.

btw, ardchoille, get yo family a proxy :D

yes heathcare is a good thing.

And what about funding i hear you cry.

Tax or Private Funding or bit of both

From the Ambassdor office keslabnod360

We would support this resolution the RBH replacement is essentially toothless.

Toothless it may be but repealing it will not drastically change anything either.

Toothless it may be but repealing it will not drastically change anything either.

Not true, it'll remove a useless resolution from the books. If that's not a drastic change I don't know what is.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

After reviewing both the intended resolution for repeal, and it's reference resolution (both created by the same author). We in HawaiianFreedom see no real reason to repeal a resolution that encourages required healthcare, but doesn't enforce it like the very first RBH resolution. In fact, the whole concept of the United Nations requiring other nations to grant basic healthcare is impeding on a nation's sovereign choice to allow such a privilege in the first place, while putting the burden on the people to pay for it through taxes.

We feel it is in the best interests of every nation, in this case, to leave things alone and have therefore voted against this repeal, as it will open the door for more harmful legislation to slip through that will attempt to contradict the sovereignty of the nations it will try to protect.

HawaiianFreedom - Delegate to the HawaiianFreedom nation

Alright! Finally someone opposes it!

http://home.austin.rr.com/johnnytexas/nationstates/texas.jpg
Texas Department of UN Affairs
A great big 'Howdy!' from the rootin' tootin' Texas region! This is to inform you that our UN Delegate, NewTexas, has voted FOR this resolution, in accordance with the wishes of the majority.No TV and No Beer
Secretary of UN Affairs
Region of Texas

After reviewing both the intended resolution for repeal, and it's reference resolution (both created by the same author). We in HawaiianFreedom see no real reason to repeal a resolution that encourages required healthcare, but doesn't enforce it like the very first RBH resolution. In fact, the whole concept of the United Nations requiring other nations to grant basic healthcare is impeding on a nation's sovereign choice to allow such a privilege in the first place, while putting the burden on the people to pay for it through taxes.

We feel it is in the best interests of every nation, in this case, to leave things alone and have therefore voted against this repeal, as it will open the door for more harmful legislation to slip through that will attempt to contradict the sovereignty of the nations it will try to protect.

HawaiianFreedom - Delegate to the HawaiianFreedom nationThere are no sovereigns but individuals.

What it will open the door for, is legislation requiring other nations to stop stealing so much to provide for health care :D

*snip*You know, for someone as concerned for national rights as you are, you sure do have a curious compulsion for opposing repeals. This latest anti-repeal "argument" of yours takes the cake, however, and you seem to have lifted it directly from the Big Book of Fluffy Fallacies: "A worthless resolution is better than no resolution at all."

We like you. You're silly. And so deliciously ironic.

~Cdr. Chiang

The resolution Repeal "'RBH' Replacement" was passed 6,679 votes to 1,192.

Solensina Tadefta, head of the Safalran UN Delegation, writes:

Out statisticians observe that this is the most successful repeal of all time, with 84.9% support (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-safety/). It's also the 49th repeal (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-browser/?resolution=234), bringing the number of active resolutions down to 136.

I was glad to sponsor the monopoly games and the card games.

Thanks for the support guys.

;)

Will there be a better law created soon to fill the void?

I never once said there needed to be one, and I don't entirely think the issue of health care requires international oversight. If someone else comes up with a replacement, I'll take a look obviously.

Will there be a better law created soon to fill the void?

I don't know, are you writing one?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

There's no void as we see it. Providing healthcare is up to each nation to deal with on their own. How about a resolution that brings some culture into our lives, like one that protects the musical heritage of each nation. Mandating free healthcare in nations that can't afford it will only make it impossible for those nations to provide other necessary programs and research better ways to improve on them, let alone provide quality healthcare. Have any of you ever been to any of these free clinics?


HawaiianFreedom - Delegate to the HawaiianFreedom nation

Solensina Tadefta, head of the Safalran UN Delegation, writes:

Out statisticians observe that this is the most successful repeal of all time, with 84.9% support (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-safety/). It's also the 49th repeal (http://www.safalra.com/other/nationstates/un-resolution-browser/?resolution=234), bringing the number of active resolutions down to 136.Possibly also the shortest At Vote thread, with less than 55 posts from hitting the floor until it passed.