NationStates Jolt Archive

The Commonwealth of Isca Silurum humbly submits this resolution for UN consideration:


RECOGNIZES the establishment of a moratorium on execution to be beneficial to the advance of international debate on the validity of the death penalty;

CONSIDERS that article 5, resolution #26 recognizes the right to not be subjected to cruel or inhuman punishment;

FURTHER CONSIDERS that resolution #111 implements non-combatants will not be subjected to summary execution;

POINTS OUT that there is no conclusive evidence of the death penalty's deterrence value;

NOTES any miscarriage or failure of justice in the death penalty's implementation is irreversible and irreparable;

ADVISES the suspension of executions while death penalty laws are under review

CONCLUDES that a moratorium on execution helps to ensure more effective protection of the right to life.

I just deleted this. It contradicts the Fair Sentencing Act (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11973198&postcount=181).

How is it a contradiction?
A moratorium is a temporary suspension, usually preceding debate and possible repeal or amendment of law. This resolution does not outlaw the death penalty.

Yes it does. Read this part:

2. Declares the right of nations to determine for themselves the sentences for violations of laws committed within their jurisdictions;

No moratorium can ever occur or mandated by the UN, as it would restrict that right of nations to decide their punishment.

Not just that, but since the only way the moratorium can actually end, either to replace with supporting the death penatly or actually banning the penatly...is a repeal of the resolution mandating the moratorium. Therefore, your proposal is, in fact, a "de facto" ban on the death penatly, until the repeal of your proposal occurs. Just like the "Freedom of Choice" resolution 'de facto' bans subliminal messages.

That makes much more sense than the moderator's response.

Thank you for your feedback.

POINTS OUT that there is no conclusive evidence of the death penalty's deterrence valueWe would have wanted to know how this is.. As have never known a hung rapist to repeat their crime nor murderer. So we would call it the perfect deterrence. As putting them in prison they can still commit crimes even in the best prisons. Then have the goody-goody comes along and want to set them free to give more room in prisons.. thus they go back out and repeat their crimes and will keep on doing it as long as alive and able to get free to make victums of good citizens..

No as long as we have trees and ropes we will hang those criminals found guilty of certain crimes.... rape and murder main two...

That's not deterrence, that's preventing re-occurrence. They're different things.
~Hari Desana

That's not deterrence, that's preventing re-occurrence. They're different things.
~Hari DesanaYes it is deterrence because rapist and murderers who are hung don't have kids and can't teach others to follow in their shoes.. deadbeat DeADs in prison by some must have contact with family and friends thus spread their agendas.. those hung feed the worms.... you mix the real bad in with the minor criminals and they spread their beliefs to the younger or abuse them in many prisons... as what do they have to loose if they in prison for life and get everything they need given them because it is too barbaric to not give them care.

Yes it is deterrence because rapist and murderers who are hung don't have kids and can't teach others to follow in their shoes.. deadbeat DeADs in prison by some must have contact with family and friends thus spread their agendas.. those hung feed the worms.... you mix the real bad in with the minor criminals and they spread their beliefs to the younger or abuse them in many prisons... as what do they have to loose if they in prison for life and get everything they need given them because it is too barbaric to not give them care.

"Say What?

Deterrence means that it is there to ensure that others cannot do it, and doesn't mean it is there so that the person who is being executed cannot do it again. Those are two different things. And what is a 'Deadbeat DeAD'?

I don't know where you are getting your information, but you need to check it's authenticity."

~~Understudy to the Shazbotdom Ambassador to the United Nations~~

The threat of capital punishment is meant as a deterrence to other people who may consider doing the same thing. It isn't about preventing the convicted person spreading criminal impulses but is meant to encourage others not to go down the same path or they can expect the same punishment. My understanding is that there is indeed very little evidence that it actually works as a deterrent though.

Out of interest then, the Fair Sentencing Act appears to permit capital punishment and other more imaginative forms of punishment. I would like to see some sort of UN debate on capital punishment, does anyone know if there has been one in the past? Or even a proposal to ban or state a general consensus? I couldn't find anything, but I'm new to this.

"Say What?
Deterrence means that it is there to ensure that others cannot do it, and doesn't mean it is there so that the person who is being executed cannot do it again. Those are two different things. And what is a 'Deadbeat DeAD'?
I don't know where you are getting your information, but you need to check it's authenticity."

~~Understudy to the Shazbotdom Ambassador to the United Nations~~I fully understand what deterent means.. What trying to say is many in prison still have contact with their children and family thus spread their ideas down,,, Also the harden criminals often come in contact due to crowding with young folks sentence for first time and minor crimes thus spread their ideas to them.. A hung person can't spread anything thus those that might come in contact with them never do unless it to bury their sorry arse. I say this as have seen too many times prisoners getting tax payer payed medical care that many honest citizens can't afford, add the cost of guards and travel to medical cost and it those honest citizens paying for it.

Last one saw they brought down from a prison in Atlanta GA area to Augusta GA area to find out why he was having troubles sleeping nights. This one spent three full days in a local hospital being tested for sleep disorder... and tax payers paid for it all... This guy raped two minors got locked up for six years and was let out then raped and killed another minor and was put in for life..... Had they hung him the first and second rape then no more victums. One of those two was male one female and the one he killed was female. The two survived will carry the scars for life and problably can't afford medical help to help them sleep.

As for the deadbeat DeADs... play on words as many times like father like son.. so if father abuses mother and kids then kids end up abusers.... Hang them and no more kids and if do have one he's out of their life.... let them live and system allows him back in it as it can't keep up with them 24/7.... once they out... walking the streets again...

I fully understand what deterent means.. What trying to say is many in prison still have contact with their children and family thus spread their ideas down,,, Also the harden criminals often come in contact due to crowding with young folks sentence for first time and minor crimes thus spread their ideas to them.. A hung person can't spread anything thus those that might come in contact with them never do unless it to bury their sorry arse. I say this as have seen too many times prisoners getting tax payer payed medical care that many honest citizens can't afford, add the cost of guards and travel to medical cost and it those honest citizens paying for it.

"I don't know where your getting your statistics from but the Hardened Criminals in the Shazbotdom Empire are seperated from the first time and/or minor criminal offenders. And i'm sure that most other Nations are like that here."

"Hangings are illegal in the Shazbotdom Empire. If a prisoner is convicted and sentenced to death, we prefer to fly them to a volcano in a Pelican Transport Aircraft and then drop them in. It's quick and they are dead within a few seconds. That and it also costs a lot less than any other means."

"In Shazbotdom, Criminals get minimal health care. It's enough to keep them alive and well, but they don't get any unessicary surguries. Keeping them alive in the Shazbotdom Empire is a lot less expensive than executing them."

Last one saw they brought down from a prison in Atlanta GA area to Augusta GA area to find out why he was having troubles sleeping nights. This one spent three full days in a local hospital being tested for sleep disorder... and tax payers paid for it all... This guy raped two minors got locked up for six years and was let out then raped and killed another minor and was put in for life..... Had they hung him the first and second rape then no more victums. One of those two was male one female and the one he killed was female. The two survived will carry the scars for life and problably can't afford medical help to help them sleep.

"Where is this Atlanta, GA and this Augusta, GA?" Turns to a secretary from the Ministry of the Shazbotdom UN Office. "Ahhh. It's in a nation that doesn't exist anymore. Well. We don't care what happened in a non-existant nation that died many years ago. This is now, not then."

As for the deadbeat DeADs... play on words as many times like father like son.. so if father abuses mother and kids then kids end up abusers.... Hang them and no more kids and if do have one he's out of their life.... let them live and system allows him back in it as it can't keep up with them 24/7.... once they out... walking the streets again...

"How do you figure that? Crime isn't a problem here, where we have education on what is right and wrong in that manner. Unless there is a problem in your nation with kids going around beating eachother up, then that's something that the parents of those children, and in the cases you specify, your police force should keep in check, and not the NationStates United Nations."

"I don't know where your getting your statistics from but the Hardened Criminals in the Shazbotdom Empire are seperated from the first time and/or minor criminal offenders. And i'm sure that most other Nations are like that here."From the same place anyone here would find statistics to prove their point on an issue.

"Hangings are illegal in the Shazbotdom Empire. If a prisoner is convicted and sentenced to death, we prefer to fly them to a volcano in a Pelican Transport Aircraft and then drop them in. It's quick and they are dead within a few seconds. That and it also costs a lot less than any other means."As an island nation we give them one of two options if found guilty of a crime which would constitute a sentence of death:

1) Hang from a tall tree with a strong rope around your neck, then if no family to claim body for burial they feed the sharks in waters around our island nation.

2) Swim the 600+ miles to the nearest independent nation beyond our borders. Here it is not legal to give any help to convicted criminals and we feed our sharks and train them to watch our shores..

"In Shazbotdom, Criminals get minimal health care. It's enough to keep them alive and well, but they don't get any unessicary surguries. Keeping them alive in the Shazbotdom Empire is a lot less expensive than executing them."We find that if they are sentenced to do time beyond their lifelimit (88) they hang once sentence is handed down.. they family can have the body and bury it or we feed the sharks with it. Also if they do any time they work to earn what they need and will get, they still if were citizens have medical care but must be able to work for it like anyone free and not in prison has to. Thus it is best to make sure their health allows them to work to pay for time done.. even if all they may earn goes to cover medical care and their basic needs...

"Where is this Atlanta, GA and this Augusta, GA?" Turns to a secretary from the Ministry of the Shazbotdom UN Office. "Ahhh. It's in a nation that doesn't exist anymore. Well. We don't care what happened in a non-existant nation that died many years ago. This is now, not then."We forget old memories weight heavy on our old mind... however it was due to a failure of the government to deal with criminals that lead to the fall of these once great places. As they gave to much to them and forget about the barbaric acts some criminals were quilty of thus gave them rights to abuse the citizens and make them victums leading to an end to a society once great now lost forever.

"How do you figure that? Crime isn't a problem here, where we have education on what is right and wrong in that manner. Unless there is a problem in your nation with kids going around beating eachother up, then that's something that the parents of those children, and in the cases you specify, your police force should keep in check, and not the NationStates United Nations."Yes but it is outside your nation or don't you ever read news from other nations or visit other nations.. either in the UN or not in it. It is not up to the UN to mandate how nations deal with crime inside their own borders... as the UN is for bringing nations together as individuals not making them all one nation, thus each has their own laws and should have to deal with crimes in their own borders. The UN needs to prevent one or a select group of nations from taking it all over. Thus then your crime rate as low as it may be now may rise due to those gain power.

If you think crime is not a problem then go check this out...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546534

Or realy check this out...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546564

Deterrence? I run a theocracy and I can tell you the death penalty is a HUGE deterrence.

Hitch them up to a truck with a rope around their neck on one end and a knot around the bumper on the other. Give that truck a slap on the side and send it off like a bucking Bronco. That vermin's neck'll snap to the point where he's screaming all sorts of hell and kicking like mad, but not enough so that he can still feal the pain. Have his flesh being torn out from underneath him applying a fresh coat of blood and course flesh on the pavement. The vermin dragged along like a rag doll by the neck so- his neck is just bobbling helplessly looking at the white from the bones of his elbows and heels as they frantically try to save themselves from the sawing floor.

I tell you what, you video tape that scene and put it up on what we have in my country called YouVIEW -its an internet broadcasting website. Man I tell you what, theres nothing that makes a kid cringe like the site of a man's skin from his back being folded over his stomach-I've seen the effects myself . I can promise you when someone is thinking about committing a capital offense in my country, they can almost feel the muscle being viscously shredded into beef jerky. Stops murder dead in its tracks. Sure we still have murders every now and then from spontaneous things -albeit they have gone down too due to the automated response drilled into them by witnessing such executions- but still we can't delete those. However premeditated murders are slim to 0%.

Oh and by the way my government doesn't recognize mortal automobile surfing to be cruel and unusual punishment.