NationStates Jolt Archive

The UN has no right to determine whether we should have democracy or not, or whether we should halt privacy intrusion, or if slavery is a bad thing! THIS IS ALL DETERMINED BY THE NATION, NOT AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION!!! Moral values are judged upon by oneself, and if the people of a nation think slavery is righteous, or democracy is bad, or privacy intrusion is neccessary, then so be it! it is their choice, so let them do so. it is not to be fiddled with by international organizations.

Tough titty; the Un is a democracy (although nation's don't have to be), and what we say, bloody well goes.
If we felt like it, we could damned well insist on all men having to wear purple trousers, or citizens having to stone their leaders on a fortnightly basis.

So don't push us...

Eh' hem. If you don't like what the UN is doing, resign from it. The laws set forth by this body only applies to member nations. Nations that are not in the UN are not bound to these laws.

One wonders why you joined in the first place?

Part and parcel to joining is agreeing to abide by the resolutions passed. It's what the whole thing is about. If you don't like it, leave, no one's stopping you, nor did anyone force you in.... so bye... but, I've got dibs on your executive offices.... This closet they call an office is getting cramped.

As others have mentioned before, non-member nations are not affected by UN resolutions, and absolutely no one is demanding you stay among us, so feel free to depart if our views differ from your own.

One wonders why you joined in the first place?

Part and parcel to joining is agreeing to abide by the resolutions passed. It's what the whole thing is about. If you don't like it, leave, no one's stopping you, nor did anyone force you in.... so bye... but, I've got dibs on your executive offices.... This closet they call an office is getting cramped.

You can have that office if you let me have your closet of an office, its still better than this phonebooth I'm locked up in.

The UN is supposed to be peace-making, and unifying. they should focus on making laws about disputes...not on how a government works...that is up to the nation itself. the UN settles disputes and attempts to make cooperation, now set how every UN member's government works. what happens if a tyrant joins the UN? does he have to follow democracy? and what if some members want to change the UN from democracy to communism? That is illegal. so I think the UN is an alliance of democratic nations...

... Nations have rights? It seems the Dasri have a lot to learn about how countries work.

~ Hari Desana

OOC: The UN is hard-coded into the game as a sort-of-democratic body - sort-of because of the delegate system which, on occasion, can make or break a resolution by itself (especially the Pacifics and RR). That can't be changed without not just the assent of the mods, but the actions of the admins, and almost definitely the involvement of Max himself. It's not going to happen.

Questions about the 'should' of the UN are decided by the UN itself. So far, over the course of (ye gods!) 5 years, there has been an extremely strong push for human rights to be recognised as universal, and to be universally enforced.

The UN is supposed to be peace-making, and unifying.
Incorrect. The UN is supposed to be what the UN decides to be. In the course of its history it has decided to be a law-maker in many areas of international activity, and doubtless will continue this wisely broad approach.

what happens if a tyrant joins the UN? does he have to follow democracy?
Only in so far as the tyrant has but one vote of the thousands in the General Assembly. Many requirements are laid upon them by UN law, but the nation in question becoming a democracy is not one of them, despite repeated attempts by illiterate newcomers to introduce illegal resolutions to that effect.

and what if some members want to change the UN from democracy to communism? That is illegal. so I think the UN is an alliance of democratic nations...
As has been painfully obvious thus far, you think incorrectly. The UN is a democratic alliance of nations. The word ordering is important.

The UN is supposed to be peace-making, and unifying. they should focus on making laws about disputes...not on how a government works......Have you looked at what you wrote here..?

The UN is made up of many different nations with different views on issues and the individual nations base how they do things on the views of citizens on those issues. Thus each government works differently based on how citizens that created it view issues and that causes conflicts. Thus the disputes arise from these different views or forms of government and how they view things.. so the UN is doing just what you say it needs to do when it goes one way or other on an issue one nation may not like but the majority do like. As to stay in the middle of the road only opens on up to more problems down the road.

The UN has no right to determine whether we should have democracy or not, or whether we should halt privacy intrusion, or if slavery is a bad thing! THIS IS ALL DETERMINED BY THE NATION, NOT AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION!!! Moral values are judged upon by oneself, and if the people of a nation think slavery is righteous, or democracy is bad, or privacy intrusion is neccessary, then so be it! it is their choice, so let them do so. it is not to be fiddled with by international organizations.

Since the United Nations is voluntary, it is a national choice... You have the choice between:

1. Not joining the NSUN, and therefore not having to abide by NSUN legislative acts (Resolutions)

-or-

2. Joining or remaining in the NSUN, and therefore abiding by all NSUN legislative acts (Resolutions).

There is no third option, whereby you're a member of the NSUN, and resolutions are optional...

There is no third option, whereby you're a member of the NSUN, and resolutions are optional...

(OOC: Yes there is. Allow your embassy to join up as an UN Puppet, which would represent your views in the NSUN. You still are allowed to vote in the resolutions, but only your embassy has to follow them, meaning your main nation does not.

Many nations in fact do that very thing.)

y'know? that sounds like an interesting idea!

(OOC: Yes there is. Allow your embassy to join up as an UN Puppet, which would represent your views in the NSUN. You still are allowed to vote in the resolutions, but only your embassy has to follow them, meaning your main nation does not.

Many nations in fact do that very thing.)

OOC: Ahh, but then, in effect, you've divided yourself into two separate entities, one of which is still obligated in following NSUN resolutions, even if the other is not... It's really not much of an "option" since you're still forced (as the puppet) to abide by the resolutions...

(OOC: Yes there is. Allow your embassy to join up as an UN Puppet, which would represent your views in the NSUN. You still are allowed to vote in the resolutions, but only your embassy has to follow them, meaning your main nation does not.

Many nations in fact do that very thing.)

*Looks shifty* I have no idea what you're talking about.

OOC: Ahh, but then, in effect, you've divided yourself into two separate entities, one of which is still obligated in following NSUN resolutions, even if the other is not... It's really not much of an "option" since you're still forced (as the puppet) to abide by the resolutions...

Prehaps, but in the end, your main nation can still do whatever it wants, so it's something to keep in mind if you don't like how a resolution is.
***
To be honest, there is only one real reason you wish to stay in the UN: "Reform" it.

You think the UN should start helping nations out rather than go and dictate to them morals? You join up with the voting blocs, and get a resolution onto the floor that could advocate your ideology. Or, back repeal efforts to try and fix the flaws, but remember, if the majority of the voters are against you, you may fail.

And, another thing, I usually go and read the resolutions to try and find loopholes, which is to me, quite fun. This is, after all a game, and having fun is paramount. (However, I must realize that I don't want to be seen as outright violating them or being moronic in creating loopholes that do not exist...)

And, another thing, I usually go and read the resolutions to try and find loopholes, which is to me, quite fun.)Yes they are with the right company a basket of fresh cooked chicken, cheese, bread, wine, and a clear day to get a full view of the tall tree from which the scum will swing.


Ooops. Sorry my aide just reminded me I'm not reading an order to hang a criminal just some paper of a proposal before the UN assembly.

Hairier Thanthou,
Second Assistant UN Ambassador Cavirra,
Cheif Hangman Cavirra Justice System

To be honest, there is only one real reason you wish to stay in the UN: "Reform" it.

OOC: Perhaps. I've mainly stayed in the UN, throughout various incarnations, because I genuinely enjoy the type of debate you get here. More structured than General, not so tied to character as II or NS. I've written one resolution and campaigned hard for another proposal that never reached quorum - and given what's happened since, is unlikely to resurface without a massive repeal-and-replace operation, which simply doesn't appeal to me. The whole campaigning thing, I just never really took to it. I don't really care if the debates on the forum don't have any impact upon the voting body at large, I just enjoy having the debates.

... and if anyone's still trying to guess what my former nation was (provided, of course, you've been around long enough), surely I've given enough clues in this post plus what I've already said.

Eh' hem. If you don't like what the UN is doing, resign from it. The laws set forth by this body only applies to member nations. Nations that are not in the UN are not bound to these laws.

Agreed! I'm so tired of hearing these complaints not only from my own nation but here too. Although I think most if not all of the nations in NS should be in the UN so that we have a bit more say from everyone.

Including the naysayers.