NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey. I previously made a resolution known as "NSUN Influence in Armed Conflict" resolution that was said to be, well, weak and useless. Hopefully, this resolution might be a bit stronger, and more direct.

It's supposed to be a stronger revision of a resolution to help stop war, by basically engaging warmongers directly (imperialists). Here's something that I think I really need help on. Is this a bit too general, and how can I ensure it doesn't do too much harm?

International Security,
MILD

REAFFIRMING the NSUN's commitment to national sovereignty and the right for each nation to rule itself,

STATING however that national sovereignty may be infringed upon by imperialistic powers seeking to gain control of huge empires,

HORRIFIED by the fact that imperialism is one of the main causes of terrorism, rebellions, and warfare throughout the world,

CONDEMNING the practices of imperialist powers to virtually enslave the populations they control,

DECLARING imperialism to be a direct threat to international security and to national sovereignty,

1)DEFINES "Imperialism" as "the forceful extension of a nation's authority by territorial conquest establishing political domination of other nations",

2) DESIGNATES "Imperialism" as a "Human Right Abuse",

3) PROHIBITS all memberstates from engaging in Imperialism,

3) ALLOWS the Pretenama Panel to investigate all charges of imperialism, and issue arrest warrants if necessary,

4) DECLARES that if a nation has to intervene in the affairs of another nation and be forced to establish a new government, it must ensure that government be free of all outside influences and be allowed to control its own destiny, as soon as possible

5)STRONGLY ENCOURAGES all nations who wishes to protect and expand their national interests to engage in practices other than imperialism, such as free trade, or exploration of new unoccupied territories such as space.

Clause 2 sets off immediate alarm bells for us. The UN's implicitly endorsing the principle of national self-determination as a fundamental will prove hugely controversial, and many nations that would otherwise support this proposal could well oppose it for fear of internal division.

More broadly, you're actually going to prohibit invasions? Whether or not that causes legal problems with regard to The Eon Convention and "Humanitarian Intervention", it certainly causes some pragmatic problems. For example, it would prevent a state occupied prior to this resolution from reasserting their sovereignty.

I'd like to be clear on whether it's war, or imperialism, we're meant to be stopping. The two are by no means synonymous.

And you have two 3s.

And and, The Pretenama Panel is useless; don't use it.

-- Samantha Benson
Department of UN Affairs
The Democratic States of Quintessence of Dust


OOC: I would advise against simply copying Wikipedia for your definition of imperialism.

If I'm reading this correctly, R49: Rights and Duties of UN States already covers this to a degree.

Article 5 § War in the World of NationStates is defined as a consensual act between two or more NationStates. Any and all NationStates may, at their discretion, respond to declarations of war on NationStates who wish to avoid war. The recommended method is a barrage of I.G.N.O.R.E. Cannons.

<snip>

Article 7 § Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from giving assistance to any NationState which is acting in violation of Article 5, or against which the United Nations is taking preventive or enforcement action.

Article 8 § Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from recognizing any territorial acquisition by another NationState acting in violation of Article 5.

<snip>

Article 11 § Every UN Member State has the duty to conduct its relations with other NationStates in accordance with international law and with the principle that the sovereignty of each UN Member State is subject to the supremacy of international law.

It's a little vague on imperialism.

Clause 2 sets off immediate alarm bells for us. The UN's implicitly endorsing the principle of national self-determination as a fundamental will prove hugely controversial, and many nations that would otherwise support this proposal could well oppose it for fear of internal division.

Good point. Consider it gone.

More broadly, you're actually going to prohibit invasions?

Didn't mean to prohibit invasions, I mean prohibiting the formation of puppet governments with the sole purpose of stealing their resources. You can invade other nations, but you can't steal their stuff. In fact, Clause 4 was supposed to allow for Humanitarian Interventions, as you will likely need to replace the government of a rogue nation with a saner government.

I'd like to be clear on whether it's war, or imperialism, we're meant to be stopping. The two are by no means synonymous.

The goal was to stop imperialism, not war. Hopefully, by stopping imperialism, you could stop the worst excesses of war, and have war be fought for better reasons (such as stopping genocide, for instance).

If I'm reading this correctly, R49: Rights and Duties of UN States already covers this to a degree.

Hm, okay. It does again mention national soverignty. I'm going to need to think about it...Of course, this means that I may very well abandon the proposal in question, because if it is unnecessary, no need to waste time.

Didn't mean to prohibit invasions, I mean prohibiting the formation of puppet governments with the sole purpose of stealing their resources. You can invade other nations, but you can't steal their stuff. In fact, Clause 4 was supposed to allow for Humanitarian Interventions, as you will likely need to replace the government of a rogue nation with a saner government.


And what of the ideas of Spoils of War? Because i can tell you now, many governments will not intervene in messy situations out of the good of their hearts. Many nations, Ice Forge included, are not the nicest nations but would be more than willing to help a struggling nation in exchange for... compensation.

~Sadrin Darkfire, UN Rep of Ice Forge, Council Nation of the Forsaken Imperial Alliance

As an British Empire nation, we heartily object to this. The British have brought peace to a once warlike land, united us where we were divided, improved the wealth and our general wellbeing, built railways, factories, gave us cricket, pith helmets, employment and a healthy mistrust of the Germans. Without the British, we would just be fighting each other, living in mud huts, and trying to farm fish on land. No longer do we have to worry about different tribes pissing in the river upstream from ours! Long Live King George! The King-Emporer!

Hoseles Mackadaynu
The League of Pro-British Cobdenian Toadies

We also heartily reject any resolution framed in this manner. Not only does the preamble set up a justification that we entirely disagree with, but the proposal itself then merely inveighs against militaristic imperialism, while letting other equally damaging forms (economic and cultural imperialism spring to mind, by way of example) go unmentioned, never mind unpunished.

All valid obejctions. Looks like I'm going to shelve this idea away for now, until I can think of a better alternative to deal with imperialism.

trying to farm fish on land.How do you mine for fish?

How do you mine for fish?

Easy,
Step 1. Throw mine into water.
Step 2. Detonate mine.
Step 3. The shockwave caused by the mine's detonation will stun the fish causing them to float to the surface.
Step 4. Scoop up the stunned fish.

Timothy Schimdt
UN Representative (pro tem)

my un nation will vote against thise being as it is an impperium

Easy,
Step 1. Throw mine into water.
Step 2. Detonate mine.
Step 3. The shockwave caused by the mine's detonation will stun the fish causing them to float to the surface.
Step 4. Scoop up the stunned fish.

Timothy Schimdt
UN Representative (pro tem)


I think Hack was referring to mining as something aking to digging through the side of a mountain, i.e coal mine.

Easy,
Step 1. Throw mine into water.
Step 2. Detonate mine.
Step 3. The shockwave caused by the mine's detonation will stun the fish causing them to float to the surface.
Step 4. Scoop up the stunned fish.

Timothy Schimdt
UN Representative (pro tem)

How is that using skills such as patience of the hunter? We prefer to improve our skills in every activity we do... This practice or technique of mining for fish requires no skill.... unless you are a mine-designer then it would be ok.

I think Hack was referring to mining as something aking to digging through the side of a mountain, i.e coal mine.Or, this (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=155).

How do you mine for fish?

We never worked it out; that's why we needed to British to tell us that we were being stupid sods...

Hoseles Mackadaynu

I think Hack was referring to mining as something aking to digging through the side of a mountain, i.e coal mine.

How is that using skills such as patience of the hunter? We prefer to improve our skills in every activity we do... This practice or technique of mining for fish requires no skill.... unless you are a mine-designer then it would be ok.

Have neither of you ever heard of a joke?

Timothy Schmidt
UN Representative (pro tem)

Have neither of you ever heard of a joke?


Excuse me. A......what?;)

Have neither of you ever heard of a joke?

Timothy Schmidt
UN Representative (pro tem)

No?! How does it go? Don't leave me hanging on my anticipation of hearing your joke!?

Easy,
Step 1. Throw mine into water.
Step 2. Detonate mine.
Step 3. The shockwave caused by the mine's detonation will stun the fish causing them to float to the surface.
Step 4. Scoop up the stunned fish.

Timothy Schimdt
UN Representative (pro tem)

First of all, do you know how hard it is to get a fish to step on a mine?

Second of all stunned fish don't taste anywhere near fresh,

Third of all as a UN Nation what are you doing with MINES anyway!

Third of all as a UN Nation what are you doing with MINES anyway!

Uh, the UN only banned landmines for warfare. You can use landmines for fishing.
---Dr. Bob.

Uh, the UN only banned landmines for warfare. You can use landmines for fishing.
---Dr. Bob.

Good point... I retract that last part...

First of all, do you know how hard it is to get a fish to step on a mine? I never said anything about having a fish step on the mine. I just said to detonate the mine, obviously you'd use a mine with some sort of remote detonation system.

Second of all stunned fish don't taste anywhere near fresh, You're right, they taste better.

Third of all as a UN Nation what are you doing with MINES anyway!First off, the UN only banned the use of land mines by UN counties. Secondly, I never specified the use of a land mine anyway, there are mines designed to be used against ships you know.

Timothy Schmidt
UN Representative (pro tem)

I would vote against this as it could leave U.N. nations vulnerable to non-U.N. nations who are hungry for power. Sadly sometimes the best defense is a good offense.