NationStates Jolt Archive

"Repeal Metric System"

We the People of Aniane and of our subject states concur that although the metric system although A fine system of measurement, we cannot force it upon anyone in the world.

Forcing things with such pointless significance onto the nations of the world is an Infringement and Abomination onto the rights of a Sovereign Nation.
This repeal recognizes that it is the right of the Individual nation to make such decisions as Systems as measurements for its people.

This is why we plead with you to Adopt and Endorse the UN Proposal "Repeal Metric System"

Scotchpinestan supports this repeal, if for no other reason than the fact that resolution 24 claims that the metric system is "far superior" to all others. Many member nations may very well believe that, but certainly not all do.

"While we feel that the Metric System of measurment is better than the Imperial System of measurment, we will support this repeal. Although we will support it in hopes that down the road a better resolution can be put into place that establishes the Metric System as an international form of measurment to a point. Where it makes it manditory in all nations, but not the only system of measurment that is acceptable within all UN Member nations."

Forcing Metrics is a pointless waste of time and resources and makes no sense to tell all nations they should use one system of measurement. We fully support this repeal

OOC:
Just a note. I noticed that this proposal is in the "Silly or Illegal Proposals" thread for Branding Violation. I would expect the proposal to be deleted here soon if the mods notice it.

((Yup, I should have noticed that. You can't mention your nation in your proposal. Get rid of everything before the word "although" in your first sentence and you'll be fine.))

We use the metric system to satisfy international norms, domestically we have other systems that we use and we pride ourselves with our math skills in being able to convert from one system to another. It keeps the warrior's mind sharp! Repeal, or don't repeal, we'll still use the metric system and our own. We just find your logic for repeal amusing.

There is no force involved in practicing alternate forms of measurements, in fact it expands the mind when using multiple forms. The UN law claims that it is superior to other systems? Bah, the weak only like to use the easiest methods and never want to expand. As it says in the Book of The Righteous Warrior: "One must understand the other and all of his or her ways of being and of doing so that the warrior may surpass the other in their way as well as with the warrior's own way." Chapter 78, Paragraph 2, Verse 3(The Tarkhan Translation), look it up for yourself.

The Administrator's took it out of that thread YAY!

OOC:
Just a note. I noticed that this proposal is in the "Silly or Illegal Proposals" thread for Branding Violation. I would expect the proposal to be deleted here soon if the mods notice it.

The original resolution, Metric System, is so bloody piss poor that we ignore it, much to the chagrin of the gnomes (the door to the weights and measures office is covered in patented "Gnome-Be-Gone" oil).

The lack of definition as to what units constitute the metric system (which is distinct from the SI system, let us not forget - km is a metric unit, but not an SI unit, but parsecs are an SI unit, and not a metric one), combined with the uselessness of such a system in many circumstances - does anyone think that kilometres are better than light years for measuring interstellar distances? - has forced us to this conclusion.

There was a better repeal a while back, and my own theoretical replacement, that I feel should be resurrected. As this one is branded, and isn't as shit hot.

Sir Cyril etc.

Why would you want to use the imperial system anyway?

Metric is far superior. All others just make problems.

Do they? Ever tried navigating using metres?

Do they? Ever tried navigating using metres?

No, have you? Please explain.

I navigate in metres all the time. Of course, it helps that all the road signs and maps I would reasonably encounter are in metres or kilometres.

I navigate in metres all the time. Of course, it helps that all the road signs and maps I would reasonably encounter are in metres or kilometres.

OOC: Yes, I don't know why America refuses to change...

OOC: *jumps on the bandwagon of Americans who would embrace that change* 5280 feet in a mile, four pints in a quart, what a load of arbitrary crap. Well, technically, all such measurements are arbitrary somehow, but at least in metric it makes sense why they all are what they are. And the only thing that ever caught on were 2 liter soda bottles. Sigh.

What the heck is branded mean?

What the heck is branded mean?
You have the name of your nation in the text of the repeal.
# Branding

Limited branding is allowed. "Limited" means that you may list one co-author by nation name only. Example:

"Co-authored by The Most Glorious Hack"

Further branding will result in the Proposal being deleted. Don't list everyone who posted in the thread for your draft, don't list yourself, don't list your Minister Of Making Proposals, and don't post the 'pre-title' of the co-author (ie: "The Republic Of..."). This includes creating nations that have the same name as your region or group and using them to promote your region or group.

No, have you? Please explain.Greater Dunedin, meet the Nautical Mile. Nautical Mile, meet Greater Dunedin.

The Wolf Guardians;13238985']OOC: *jumps on the bandwagon of Americans who would embrace that change* 5280 feet in a mile, four pints in a quart, what a load of arbitrary crap. Well, technically, all such measurements are arbitrary somehow, but at least in metric it makes sense why they all are what they are. And the only thing that ever caught on were 2 liter soda bottles. Sigh.

OOC: Not true. The illegal drug trade in the US operates almost entirely on metric for quantifying it's product. :)

OOC: Not true. The illegal drug trade in the US operates almost entirely on metric for quantifying it's product. :)

OOC: OH, yeah. I haven't the faintest why I forgot to mention that.

>.>
<.<

Excuse me, I've an errand to run.
Just kidding, of course. I think it's all silly.

Why would you want to use the imperial system anyway?

Metric is far superior. All others just make problems.

OOC: Try the "traditional" Godwinnian system, to which I'll post a link once NSwiki is back up, some time... ;)

OOC: Yes, I don't know why America refuses to change...
OoC:
1) That's a bloody insult that is; I'm not a heathen yank, and God Damn You I shall see this slander does not go unpunished *hit's anyone who assumed I was American repeatedly with a furled umbrella*
2) Not poncy motor car navigating. Navigating as in proper navigating; i.e. ships, aircraft, Zeppellins, etc. for which one uses nautical miles - a measure designed specifically for this function (as opposed to made up and based on nothing in particular, by a Frenchman, as metres pretty much are) and thus damnably more useful

Metres were actually originally based on arcs of meridian. Unfortunately the Earth isn't a perfect sphere - a problem the original nautical mile also had - making the length variable, so eventually it became defined based on how far light travels in a given amount of time which approximated that original measure; something like 299-millionths of a light-second, I'd have to look up the exact number.

Incidentally, the nautical mile is now defined in metres as exactly 1852m, which is the standard used in aviation. Your beloved nautical mile is actually based on the thing "based on nothing in particular".

OoC:
1) That's a bloody insult that is; I'm not a heathen yank, and God Damn You I shall see this slander does not go unpunished *hit's anyone who assumed I was American repeatedly with a furled umbrella*
2) Not poncy motor car navigating. Navigating as in proper navigating; i.e. ships, aircraft, Zeppellins, etc. for which one uses nautical miles - a measure designed specifically for this function (as opposed to made up and based on nothing in particular, by a Frenchman, as metres pretty much are) and thus damnably more useful

OOC: Stop complaining, I know I'm not the only one who was mistaken, and besides, what's wrong with Americans. I don't think it's you who should be insulted.

If you can't understand why mistaking someone for an American could be considered an insult, you need more help than I can provide.

Which is a state of affairs and a mind-set that's rather insulting to Americans, in and of itself.

Uh oh... sounds like we're now stuck in one of them recursive insult loop thingies.

Uh oh... sounds like we're now stuck in one of them recursive insult loop thingies.

OOC: Which is why we should probably get back on topic, which is of course repealing the Metric System resolution.

As the Metric system is included as apart of one of the three major religions in Evoinia, we cannot advocate it's abolishment without incurring the wrath of various groups who would see it as reducing the freedoms of that religon.

Thus, we are against.

The holy people of the Empire of Mereselt agree.

As the Metric system is included as apart of one of the three major religions in Evoinia, we cannot advocate it's abolishment without incurring the wrath of various groups who would see it as reducing the freedoms of that religon.

Thus, we are against.

OOC: *Sighs*

Why, oh, why, don't people take the trouble to read the bloody rules about how proposals work before commenting here?

Look, it's simple: A repeal can only get rid of an existing resolution, it can not introduce any new legislation, so a repeal of resolution #24 will NOT force nations to stop using the metric system if they actually like it... ALL that this repeal would do if it passed is mean that nations that would no longer be forced to use that system, so that those of them whose governments don't like it could then drop its use within their own nations if they so choose...

OOC: Look, I could find no reason besides the fact of the need of universal measurement in trade disagree with this appeal.

In fact, thats an awful good reasoning.

I mean, if we had to change measurement systems everytime some time passed though a set of borders it would just be pointlessly hecktic.

I support this repeal. I was just about to do one but you beat me to it ;) .

I support this repeal. I was just about to do one but you beat me to it ;) .

Which is usually better than being beaten with it.

There is no good reason to repeal the Metric System resolution. International commerce, construction and cooperation require a common set of units for ease of communication. Metric was chosen, voted on and passed. You are not prevented from using your own nation's units within your nation's borders.

Voting AGAINST suuport for this proposal.

International commerce, construction and cooperation require a common set of units for ease of communication.
OOC: But what if most of a particular UN member's "International commerce, construction and cooperation" is actually with nations -- outside of the UN -- that have already standardised on some other system and refuse to switch over?

Metric was chosen, voted on and passed.
OOC: So long ago that very few of the UN's current members were around at the time... Why shouldn't the newer members, who are almost certainly a majority by now, be allowed a say on the matter too?

You are not prevented from using your own nation's units within your nation's borders.
OOC: Resolution #24 states that nations must be "converted to the Metric standard: To many people, the term "converted" indicates a wholesale changeover rather than the adoption of an alternative alongside the previous choice. Consider, for example, what happens when somebody is converted from one religion to another...
No, the way around it that my UN nations used was the one that Cobdenia mentioned earlier in this thread: Because the term "Metric system" is technically just a slightly fancier way of saying "system of measurement", and Resolution #24 gives no details of any specific system in its recommendations (such as actual units to be used, inventor[s] of the system intended, lands in which that system is already used or whatever) -- and as my nations were from a version of Earth where historical differences meant that the French Revolution never happened and that consequently a French 'Metric system' comparable to the RL one was never invented -- I took it as being just a vague & badly-written urging towards standardisation of units in general rather than as mandating the adoption of the RL 'Metric system' in particular...

As the Metric system is included as apart of one of the three major religions in Evoinia, we cannot advocate it's abolishment without incurring the wrath of various groups who would see it as reducing the freedoms of that religon.

Indeed, for is it not written:

And on that day the Great Ruler descended from the heavens, and saith to his chosen people, "Thou shalt have no measurements before me."

"Cast aside thine illogical measurements, for what doth it serve a man to have twelve inches in one foot, and so many feet in a yard, and to number thy volume in gallons? How can thou possibly remember this shit?"

And the people protested, saying, "O Ruler, we do remember! Have we not become used to this? Do we not know already that so many pounds are in a stone, and so many yards in a mile?"

But the Ruler declared, "Enough! For behold, one litre is a kilogram of water, and the many parts of the system doth work together, and the prefixes are sufficient to express thine measures in any scale necessary. For a thousand milligrams will give thine a gram, and a thousand grams will give thine a kilogram, and you may use micrometres or kilometres. And be not deceived when thou doth venture forth into heathen lands, for their speed limit signs are posted in miles per hour and are not as absurdly low as they seem."

And the Ruler converted all the signs and scales and made other necessary changes, and saw that it was good. But attempts to switch to metric time were entirely unsatisfactory and the Ruler had to back off on this.

OOC: But what if most of a particular UN member's "International commerce, construction and cooperation" is actually with nations -- outside of the UN -- that have already standardised on some other system and refuse to switch over?

Well, how's that going to be an obstacle? I think we all agree on the interpretation that while you are forced to use metric system it's not a case of Thou shalt have no other forms of measurement besides me. Can't they just have the other system in common use anyway?

That said I'm not necessarily so attached to the SI that repealing this would be a big deal to me. But I do think it's a good thing and shouldn't be repealed on the basis of "I don't like metric and contrary to what you say it sucks".

Well, how's that going to be an obstacle? I think we all agree on the interpretation that while you are forced to use metric system it's not a case of Thou shalt have no other forms of measurement besides me. Can't they just have the other system in common use anyway?
OOC: That's the basic sticking-point: We don't all agree that the resolution has that (intended) meaning, some of us think that "converted to" logically means "changed completely over to"...

Anyway, the Godwinnian system -- at least since its reorganisation at some point during the 19th century -- is also a perfectly logical one. It uses consistent series of multiples, (although in Base 12, rather than the mathematically-inferior Base 10), with a set of regular prefixes & suffixes that can be used to indicate where on those scales one is talking about... although the traditional names for some of the units that are most relevant to everyday life remain in popular use alongside their systemic equivalents, which doesn't trouble anybody. Unfortunately I can't post a link to it here until NSwiki is back in action, but I assure you that it does cover things quite adequately...

(Oh, and there's one good argument in favour of mathematically-diverse sytems, such as the 'Imperial' one, that I don't remember seeing used in this forum recently: Having to learn a number of different scales for that purpose, instead of just being able to add things up on one's fingers as one can when multiples of 10 are all that's used, almost certainly helps to promote higher levels of numeracy within the society concerned which is probably a good thing...)

OOC:
(Oh, and there's one good argument in favour of mathematically-diverse sytems, such as the 'Imperial' one, that I don't remember seeing used in this forum recently: Having to learn a number of different scales for that purpose, instead of just being able to add things up on one's fingers as one can when multiples of 10 are all that's used, almost certainly helps to promote higher levels of numeracy within the society concerned which is probably a good thing...)

OOC-->ShogunKhan's post #7 does agree with the above sentiment but using a more "asian-philosophical" way of saying it. Knowing diverse systems, much like knowing multiple languages can only help one's intellect. It allows you to look at problems under different tools and be able to solve them quicker.

Indeed, for is it not written[snip]It's'a heresy, but it's'a verra funny! I'm'a makin' you Pope'a for the day!


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Father Guido Sarducci
(sorta)Voice of the Moral Majority
The Federated Technocratic Oligarchy of the Most Glorious Hack