NationStates Jolt Archive

I am not actually going to call it the "Think Of The Children Act", but I have your attention, yes? Good! Let us examine what I have written.
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild

The General Assembly of the United Nations;

Recognizing that orphans and homeless children are some of the most vulnerable of all persons in any society and are often ignored or abused;

Recognizing that violence, drugs, war, famine, social chaos, disease and prejudice in many nations have resulted in an unprecedented number of children who are abandoned as orphans or who have become homeless;

Recognizing that the rights of orphans and homeless children are often ignored;

Deploring the terrible conditions that these children suffer in;

Alarmed that these children are exposed to the possibility of being raped, murdered or sold into prostitution and noting that some of these children are extremely young;

Finding this situation to be unacceptable, enacts the following:

1. Member nations are encouraged in the strongest possible terms to fund the construction and staffing of orphanages and shelters for homeless children as the situation in their nation merits.

2. Member nations are further strongly encouraged to establish appropriate child welfare agencies to oversee the well-being of these children and to manage the distribution of aid. Additionally, these agencies are strongly urged to share information to facilitate intranational and international adoptions.

3. The United Nations Child Placement Authority is hereby established to do the following:
(i) Compile a database of all known orphaned and homeless children awaiting placement in adoptive homes in UN nations other than their current nation of residence. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of children awaiting placement in adoptive homes outside their nation. The report shall include the child's age, sex, name (if known), pertinent medical information as allowed by UN law and any other details considered relevent to the child's case.
(ii) Act as a clearinghouse for coordinating the efforts of accredited adoption agencies and child-advocacy groups in UN nations and to assist in the effort to place these children in permanent, stable homes.

4. Member nations are reminded that many homeless children, particularly runaways, may be reluctant to accept aid and assistance from government agencies or recognized charities due to fears that they will be forced into an unacceptable situation, e.g., returned to an abusive home. Therefore, it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients, but with the goal of eventually placing these children in an officially recognized shelter, orphanage or foster home, or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian.

I had intended to include an article dealing with state security organizations helping to identify and round up the children, the establishment of work centers and collective farms in which the children could learn a trade, etc.

I was advised that such language could prove problematic and might actually hinder the passage of this legislation.

So, what do you think?

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

edit: changes in red.

OOC: This is based on a proposal I co-authored early this year with a nation called Jausking. He submitted it a couple of times and then seemed to lose interest. I have removed Jausking's preamble and what remained of his action clauses.

Kinda fluffy for Mr. Dzerzhinsky, isn't it? :p

There are several things I do not like in it, it has a good moral, but there's just too much yucky stuff for my liking.

If there are changes I may change my position, such things as the removal of the international co-operation and the sharing of information.

Also, I'm a little worried about this "database"...

Kinda fluffy for Mr. Dzerzhinsky, isn't it? :p
OOC: Heh. Yeah I know, but he seemed to have a soft spot for orphans (http://marxists.anu.edu.au/archive/dzerzhinsky/communist-morality/index.htm#s4).

I want to throw part of my own efforts and primarily the forces of the Vecheka to combat the problem of homeless children... Two considerations have prompted me to this conclusion. Firstly, this is a terrible calamity! For when you look at the children, you cannot fail to think – everything is for them! The fruits of the revolution are not for us, but for them. And yet, how many of them are crippled by the struggle and by want! It is necessary to rush at once to their rescue, as we would if we saw children drowning. The People’s Commissariat for Education cannot cope with the situation alone. Extensive assistance from the Soviet public is needed. A large committee must be set up under the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, with the immediate participation of the People’s Commissariat for Education, and including representatives from all departments and all organisations that can be useful in this work. I have already spoken to a few people. I would like to head the commission myself; I want the apparatus of the Vecheka to be actually included in the work. Here I am prompted by the second consideration: I think our apparatus is one of those that work most efficiently; it has branches everywhere. People reckon with it. They are rather afraid of it. And yet, even in such a thing as the salvation and provisioning of children, one meets with negligence and even pilfering! We are steadily going over to peace-time construction, and so the thought has struck me, why not use our militant apparatus to combat such a calamity as homelessness among children?...
Apparently he actually did this, built a bunch of orphanages and whatnot. And he had the Cheka assisting in the project! :eek:

Category: Human Rights?
Strength: Significant?Try Social Justice, Mild.

Try Social Justice, Mild.
OOC: You think? I had considered SJ, but went with HR instead since it doesn't actually mandate the construction of orphanages or the provision of any services. I don't mind making it SJ and you're right about the strength now that I think of it. I would submit it as mild.

This is kinda floating in between mild on both sides. Another clause to tip it into one or the other would be good. The easiest way I see is (sadly) tipping it towards SJ by mandating some sort of legwork on the part of nations for that UN database. Member nation work is implied, but making it explicit would probably do the trick.

OOC: Given the existence of clauses #1 & #2, I fail to see what further useful purpose the proposed UN agency would actually serve beyond creating more jobs for bureaucrats. What would & could it really do to help that nation-based organisations couldn't? Okay, so it creates an international data-base, but what use would that be without a lot of international action too?

If you envisage this UN agency's main role as being to help arrange adoptions & other placements into nations other than those where the children originated, possibly over-riding the wishes of the national governments concerned in the process, then I think that this could & should be stated more clearly... and fail to see why its database should cover ALL children awaiting adoption, rather than just those for whom the relevant national governments are actually seeking homes abroad...

"Recognizing that orphans and homeless children are the most vulnerable of all persons in any society and are often ignored or abused;"

Now, I feel this subordinates all other issues within society and it must be adapted.
Changing 'most' to 'one of the most' is currently enough to satisify Evoinia.

You mean that there actually governments who allow its children to be victimized? What nations do this? Quick, point them out and we will go rescue the children right away and re-educate those immoral governments.

We already have coalmines and a childrens trade union, we see no need for this proposal.

You mean that there actually governments who allow its children to be victimized? What nations do this? Quick, point them out and we will go rescue the children right away and re-educate those immoral governments.

Good point ShogunKhan, Evoinia would join you in such an expedition.

Perhaps it could be strengthened with some mandating clause ensuring that genuine progress is made, but on the whole my government fully supports this.


Christophe Boco,
Ambassador to the United Nations,
Ariddian Isles

I had intended to include an article dealing with state security organizations helping to identify and round up the children, the establishment of work centers and collective farms in which the children could learn a trade, etc.

I was advised that such language could prove problematic and might actually hinder the passage of this legislation.

We would like to here more about this, actually.

I can't really voice an opinion on this. Military service is mandatory from age 5 in the Dourian Empire. Anyone who's homeless before age 5 is sent into military training anyhow.

I'd also like to state, that orphans in other nations are welcome in Douria. We've got plenty of use for them.

I can't really voice an opinion on this. Military service is mandatory from age 5 in the Dourian Empire. Anyone who's homeless before age 5 is sent into military training anyhow.

I'd also like to state, that orphans in other nations are welcome in Douria. We've got plenty of use for them.

HOW DARE YOU? You should allow the children to choose which military training they wish to receive. Unless we come to some agreement and share in the proper development of these orphans so that neither one of us gets all of them. Our nation is just as capable as yours to train them. Of course for us, we do not consider it as a mandatory because that assumes that there is some relevant alternative out there and we warrior societies know that aint the case! What the weak call mandatory military service we call it child rearing.

Perhaps I should send a Wawi to you as a beginning of embassy relations? We warrior societies can benefit from each other's experiences and we can have battle contests!

I can't really voice an opinion on this. Military service is mandatory from age 5 in the Dourian Empire. Anyone who's homeless before age 5 is sent into military training anyhow.

I'd also like to state, that orphans in other nations are welcome in Douria. We've got plenty of use for them.

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii (mtCObp)

This proposal actually touches upon a serious issue affecting our nation. Traditionally, adoption is considered taboo among our people, on the grounds that our ancestors should only be called upon to intercede for their decendents by blood. During the rule of the otaku, a system of orphanages were set up for unclaimed children, so that they at least could be cared for even if they lack a family name.

Sadly, what with the demise of the otaku regime and the large numbers of orphans that the attack of the kaiju upon our nation has created, this system has been strained to the breaking point. The Prophet, therefore, has directed me to listen to what the NSUN has to say on this subject.

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii (mtCObp)

This proposal actually touches upon a serious issue affecting our nation. Traditionally, adoption is considered taboo among our people, on the grounds that our ancestors should only be called upon to intercede for their decendents by blood. During the rule of the otaku, a system of orphanages were set up for unclaimed children, so that they at least could be cared for even if they lack a family name.

Sadly, what with the demise of the otaku regime and the large numbers of orphans that the attack of the kaiju upon our nation has created, this system has been strained to the breaking point. The Prophet, therefore, has directed me to listen to what the NSUN has to say on this subject.
I am truly saddened to hear this. Surely the nations where your people have taken refuge have come to the aid of these little ones?

As a people who have witnessed this calamity first hand, what suggestions do you have for the proposal? Perhaps we could work together to strengthen it.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

On the barren Islands of UIOT, orphans are used as fertilizer.

Or as weapons munitions test subjects...usually test are conducted in areas where future farming will occur.

It's a dual purpose initiative.

UIOT, Minister of Agriculture and Orphans

On the barren Islands of UIOT, orphans are used as fertilizer.

Or as weapons munitions test subjects...usually test are conducted in areas where future farming will occur.

It's a dual purpose initiative.

UIOT, Minister of Agriculture and Orphans

Ohhhh I suspect Douria and I will both block your request in taking away our loved orphans from our adopting families.... You sound evil and we have been itching to replenish our currency, you may become a proper target. Save the orphans from your evil clutches and replenish our currency shortage.... If so, then I will confer with Douria and we may start a new forum post in the International Incidents section. Hooah!

In case some are concerned with our child rearing (and I completely sympathize with the desire to protect the young from fools), we are prepared to indicate our case by referring you to our newest thread in the NationStates forum titled "Religion of ShogunKhan, The spread of Wonderful War". You will see that we will care for our younglings with the best training and transformation of weakness into strength that anyone can offer!

See you there!

New version:
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild

The General Assembly of the United Nations;

Recognizing that orphans and homeless children are some of the most vulnerable of all persons in any society and are often ignored or abused;

Recognizing that violence, drugs, war, famine, social chaos, disease and prejudice in many nations have resulted in an unprecedented number of children who are abandoned as orphans or who have become homeless;

Recognizing that the rights of orphans and homeless children are often ignored;

Deploring the terrible conditions that these children suffer in;

Alarmed that these children are exposed to the possibility of being raped, murdered or sold into prostitution and noting that some of these children are extremely young;

Finding this situation to be unacceptable, enacts the following:

1. Member nations are encouraged in the strongest possible terms to fund the construction and staffing of orphanages and shelters for homeless children as the situation in their nation merits.

2. Member nations are further strongly encouraged to establish appropriate child welfare agencies to oversee the well-being of these children and to manage the distribution of aid. Additionally, these agencies are strongly urged to share information to facilitate intranational and international adoptions.

3. The United Nations Child Placement Authority is hereby established to do the following:
(i) Compile a database of all known orphaned and homeless children awaiting placement in adoptive homes in UN nations other than their current nation of residence. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of children awaiting placement in adoptive homes outside their nation. The report shall include the child's age, sex, name (if known), pertinent medical information as allowed by UN law and any other details considered relevent to the child's case.
(ii) Act as a clearinghouse for coordinating the efforts of accredited adoption agencies and child-advocacy groups in UN nations and to assist in the effort to place these children in permanent, stable homes.

4. Member nations are reminded that many homeless children, particularly runaways, may be reluctant to accept aid and assistance from government agencies or recognized charities due to fears that they will be forced into an unacceptable situation, e.g., returned to an abusive home. Therefore, it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients, but with the goal of eventually placing these children in an officially recognized shelter, orphanage or foster home, or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian.

Changes in red. I've also updated the first post.

Yeah, that's solidly SJ now.

Its SJ but it's mild, and as such HIH Jhessan would probally allow me to vote for it.
Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

OOC:Your right felix, old chap. After reading about the history of the cheka and KGB it does seem a bit frightening that the RL Felix used their help to impliment the plan.

It's a very nice proposal. Seriously, children don't deserve to be homeless or subject to crime...

It's a very nice proposal. Seriously, children don't deserve to be homeless or subject to crime...And they would not be if they followed rules and stayed in school to learn that which is required to become a productive citizen of a nation. Here children are taught young to take their place in life. There are no orphans here as by blood they remain in a family and the Elder male and his wives lead the family caring for all in it by blood or marriage. So we see no reason for the UN to come in and tell us what to do with something we don't have a problem with. Also if other nations would develope their family values then they would not have such a problem as this. So until that happens in all nations then this will never do any good as we see it here written..

Wanda Noassa,
Minister of Children's Affairs Cavirra,
Third Wife of Nobleman Noassa

And they would not be if they followed rules and stayed in school to learn that which is required to become a productive citizen of a nation. Here children are taught young to take their place in life. There are no orphans here as by blood they remain in a family and the Elder male and his wives lead the family caring for all in it by blood or marriage. So we see no reason for the UN to come in and tell us what to do with something we don't have a problem with. Also if other nations would develope their family values then they would not have such a problem as this. So until that happens in all nations then this will never do any good as we see it here written..

Wanda Noassa,
Minister of Children's Affairs Cavirra,
Third Wife of Nobleman Noassa

How the hell do you have no orphans whatsoever? Are you honestly saying that there hasn't been some situation where through some means an entire family died with the exception of a child?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

How the hell do you have no orphans whatsoever? Are you honestly saying that there hasn't been some situation where through some means an entire family died with the exception of a child?We suspect they define family and parent differently than usual. (ooc: There are some Native American tribes that have "no" orphans because children don't "belong" to parents, they belong to the tribe.)

So we see no reason for the UN to come in and tell us what to do with something we don't have a problem with. If you truly do not have the problem, then the proposal will be an easy fit on your shoulders. Your mandatory report will be a succinct "None." We do however, urge you to be tolerant and accepting of children in other societal arrangements who are in need of such support as this proposal will give them.

Leetha Talone
UN Ambassador

This has been submitted for a trial run. I'm looking at submitting this "for real" in mid-December when I will have more free time to campaign for it.

I'm wavering on whether or not to require the report submitted by nations to include all orphans in that nation, or just the ones awaiting international adoptions. It has been pointed out to me that only including the ones eligible for international adoption would be a convenient way for nations to sweep the problem under the rug.

This has been submitted for a trial run. I'm looking at submitting this "for real" in mid-December when I will have more free time to campaign for it.

I'm wavering on whether or not to require the report submitted by nations to include all orphans in that nation, or just the ones awaiting international adoptions. It has been pointed out to me that only including the ones eligible for international adoption would be a convenient way for nations to sweep the problem under the rug.

I've approved it in a jiffy!

I love it.

I had intended to include an article dealing with state security organizations helping to identify and round up the children, the establishment of work centers and collective farms in which the children could learn a trade, etc.

I was advised that such language could prove problematic and might actually hinder the passage of this legislation.

Indeed it might. Such a clause sounds like it would be easily abused to create what are essentially sweatshops.

So, what do you think?

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

It's decent. Even I wouldn't oppose it.

Former Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

I'm wavering on whether or not to require the report submitted by nations to include all orphans in that nation, or just the ones awaiting international adoptions. It has been pointed out to me that only including the ones eligible for international adoption would be a convenient way for nations to sweep the problem under the rug.As a player, I prefer the former option. The amount of work and overhead it'll add as minimal, and it goes further to accomplish the goals of the Proposal.

I'm wavering on whether or not to require the report submitted by nations to include all orphans in that nation, or just the ones awaiting international adoptions. It has been pointed out to me that only including the ones eligible for international adoption would be a convenient way for nations to sweep the problem under the rug.

OOC: But if you do add that requirement and subsequently uncover such a situation, then what? Given that the proposal only 'STRONGLY ENCOURAGES' (instead of something along the lines of 'REQUIRES') nations to carry out this work they wouldn't be in non-compliance if they were taking it slowly, you haven't given your UN agency the power to take children out of those governments' "care" in such situations (Have you?), and it's hardly as if people could choose not to be orphaned in nations with bad records along these lines rather than in ones that expedite adoptions & so on more efficiently is it?

You have, it seems to me, three possible choices:
1/ Accept, however reluctantly, that some governments just won't do much along these lines... in which case there's no real point in your collecting that extra data.
2/ Set firm targets that governments MUST meet, which would be a difficult thing to do properly given the extent to which nations' economies & other conditions differ.
3/ Give your UN agency an active right to intervene, which many nations -- probably including quite a few of those that actually have good records in this field, as well as ones that would prefer to "sweep it under the carpet" -- would be likely to oppose on the grounds of National Sovereignty.

Given that the proposal only 'STRONGLY ENCOURAGES' (instead of something along the lines of 'REQUIRES') nations to carry out this workUm... really?

3. The United Nations Child Placement Authority is hereby established to do the following:
(i) Compile a database of all known orphaned and homeless children awaiting placement in adoptive homes in UN nations other than their current nation of residence. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of children awaiting placement in adoptive homes outside their nation.That looks like it's mandating the reports. Non-compliance would be handled in the hand-waving manner that non-compliance with other Resolutions is handled.

Um... really?

That looks like it's mandating the reports. Non-compliance would be handled in the hand-waving manner that non-compliance with other Resolutions is handled.
Oh, yes, it's mandating the reports... but where does it mandate that the nations actually do anything more practical to help their nations' orphans & homeless children as well as gathering that data?
If a government supplies a report saying that it has lots of orphans but is doing nothing to help them find new homes then it would be just as much in compliance with the proposal/resolution as a government that supplied a report showing what a marvelous job it genuinely was doing to help... so what useful purpose, if any, would those reports really serve?

Okay, fair enough. Bump it up to Significant and change the encouraging clauses to mandating ones.

I'm wavering on whether or not to require the report submitted by nations to include all orphans in that nation, or just the ones awaiting international adoptions.
We would urge you to include the broader reporting requirement. In addition to discouraging nations from "hiding" the extent of homeless and orphan children in their nation, the data will be available for research and program design in the future. In order to address a complex, multi-faceted problem such as this, it is necessary to have a complete understanding of the scope of the problem. Even were this particular piece of legislation not to attempt to solve the entire issue in one fell swoop, it can take significant steps toward that solution by both defining the problem in its entirety and facilitating international placement of orphans.

--L.T.

This received over 70 approvals without a telegram campaign. I will take your comments under consideration and post an amended draft later this weekend.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

Actually, it could go through with just a telegram campaign added to it. Give it a try.

Actually, it could go through with just a telegram campaign added to it. Give it a try.
Actually, I'm doing the durable goods one first. I'll be doing this one mid-December.

You have, it seems to me, three possible choices:
I'll do these in reverse order.
3/ Give your UN agency an active right to intervene, which many nations -- probably including quite a few of those that actually have good records in this field, as well as ones that would prefer to "sweep it under the carpet" -- would be likely to oppose on the grounds of National Sovereignty.
I would oppose that on National Sovereignty grounds as well. Sometimes the "BIG HAMMER" approach is appropriate. This is not one of those times.

Anyway, what sort of intervention did you have in mind? Military? Economic sanctions? I think either of those would be likely to result in more orphans, more homeless children.

2/ Set firm targets that governments MUST meet, which would be a difficult thing to do properly given the extent to which nations' economies & other conditions differ.
You are correct. Setting specific goals, in the construction of orphanages or the functioning of the child welfare agencies for instance, would require the addition of several more clauses. By strongly encouraging, we are allowing national governments to attack the problem as best fits their unique situations.

1/ Accept, however reluctantly, that some governments just won't do much along these lines...
This is the approach that I intend to take. The target "audience" of this legislation is nations that have a problem with homeless/orphaned children and are concerned about said problem, but have done little to address it.

I understand that there are nations that already do much more than this Act would require. I also understand that there are nations that won't do anything at all to address the problem. This is aimed at those nations in the middle that recognize the problem, but need a little "push" to get them to act on it.

in which case there's no real point in your collecting that extra data.
This will prevent nations from hiding the extent of their homeless/orphaned problem.

Also, because I can.

Okay, fair enough. Bump it up to Significant and change the encouraging clauses to mandating ones.
I'd rather not do that. If we make the construction of orphanages and shelters mandatory we would have to set guidelines. Otherwise, someone would just erect a bunch of cardboard shacks in a swamp and say "there you go, there's yer orphanage".

Likewise, if we mandate the child welfare agencies we would have to set guidelines for those. The guidelines would be similar to what we would need for a UN child welfare agency, but we would have to take into account local culture, economic situations, etc.

I'd rather leave those things under local jurisdiction and accept that a few nations will do nothing. We could certainly make those things mandatory, but we would run the risk of turning this into a BIG piece of legislation that tries to accomplish too much, and fails.

We would urge you to include the broader reporting requirement. In addition to discouraging nations from "hiding" the extent of homeless and orphan children in their nation, the data will be available for research and program design in the future.
I agree. Here is the new text:

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild

The General Assembly of the United Nations;

Recognizing that orphans and homeless children are some of the most vulnerable of all persons in any society and are often ignored or abused;

Recognizing that violence, drugs, war, famine, social chaos, disease and prejudice in many nations have resulted in an unprecedented number of children who are abandoned as orphans or who have become homeless;

Recognizing that the rights of orphans and homeless children are often ignored;

Deploring the terrible conditions that these children suffer in;

Alarmed that these children are exposed to the possibility of being raped, murdered or sold into prostitution and noting that some of these children are extremely young;

Finding this situation to be unacceptable, enacts the following:

1. Member nations are encouraged in the strongest possible terms to fund the construction and staffing of orphanages and shelters for homeless children as the situation in their nation merits.

2. Member nations are further strongly encouraged to establish appropriate child welfare agencies to oversee the well-being of these children and to manage the distribution of aid. Additionally, these agencies are strongly urged to share information to facilitate intranational and international adoptions.

3. The United Nations Child Placement Authority is hereby established to do the following:
(i) Compile a database of all known homeless or orphaned children currently residing in UN nations who are awaiting placement in adoptive homes. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of homeless or orphaned children living within their nation who are awaiting placement in adoptive homes, either within, or outside their nation. The report shall include the child's age, sex, name (if known), pertinent medical information as allowed by UN law and any other details considered relevent to the child's case.
(ii) Act as a clearinghouse for coordinating the efforts of accredited adoption agencies and child-advocacy groups in UN nations and to assist in the effort to place these children in permanent, stable homes.

4. Member nations are reminded that many homeless children, particularly runaways, may be reluctant to accept aid and assistance from government agencies or recognized charities due to fears that they will be forced into an unacceptable situation, e.g., returned to an abusive home. Therefore, it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients, but with the goal of eventually placing these children in an officially recognized shelter, orphanage or foster home, or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian.

On behalf of The Most Holy.

Rilmallia would enquire whther this proposal prohibits mandatory adoptions of rilmallian orphans by Rilmallian citizens sub poena.

If this is not the case, The Most Holy has mandated me to agree with the current proposal, as all Rilmallians must be elevated to the highest positions.


T.J. Rilmal
Annointed ambassador to the United Nations.

Rilmallia would enquire whther this proposal prohibits mandatory adoptions of rilmallian orphans by Rilmallian citizens sub poena.
It doesn't set any standards of that nature. You might want to read Adoption and IVF Rights (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9692879&postcount=122) though.

It doesn't set any standards of that nature. You might want to read Adoption and IVF Rights (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9692879&postcount=122) though.

Thank you for the clarification.

After careful review of resolution # 121, we find that we will continue with the practise of mandatory adoption by Rilmallian citizens of these few unfortunate Rilmallian children that lose there parents.

Rilmallian citizens are required to adopt Rilmallian orphans, nothing stops other UN nations from being queued for adoption, but preferantial treatment is given to local adoptants, and Rilmallians are required, sub poena, to adopt orphans. (ooc: which effectively keeps all Rilmallian orphans in Rilmallia)

3. The United Nations Child Placement Authority is hereby established to do the following:
(i) Compile a database of all known orphaned and homeless children awaiting placement in adoptive homes in UN nations other than their current nation of residence. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of children awaiting placement in adoptive homes outside their nation. The report shall include the child's age, sex, name (if known), pertinent medical information as allowed by UN law and any other details considered relevent to the child's case.

4. ...it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients...

How do the blue highlighted passages square off between sections 3.i and 4?
Does an orphan have confidentiality if all its details are shared with thousands of civil servants in thousands of different nations who request data from the database?

Exactly who will have access to the database at the United Nations Child Placement Authority, and who exactly in member nations receiving data from it will have access?

What data protection measures will apply? As it stands, could a rogue UN nation with intent to exploit these orphans request data under the pretext of looking to rehome etc. but instead use the data to prey on the children more easily than they can now for whatever depraved and evil purpose?

Putzi

How do the blue highlighted passages square off between sections 3.i and 4?
Does an orphan have confidentiality if all its details are shared with thousands of civil servants in thousands of different nations who request data from the database?

Exactly who will have access to the database at the United Nations Child Placement Authority, and who exactly in member nations receiving data from it will have access?

What data protection measures will apply? As it stands, could a rogue UN nation with intent to exploit these orphans request data under the pretext of looking to rehome etc. but instead use the data to prey on the children more easily than they can now for whatever depraved and evil purpose?

Putzi

Stop posting in my thread.

Stop posting in my thread.
Why? This is a public forum and you invited comments on your proposal! :p

Putzi

Why? This is a public forum and you invited comments on your proposal! :p

Putzi
I know I shouldn't do this, but I'll respond to you anyway for the benefit of others who might be reading.

The examples you cited are dealing with two distinct groups of homeless/orphaned/runaway children.

In this...
(i) Compile a database of all known homeless or orphaned children currently residing in UN nations who are awaiting placement in adoptive homes. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of homeless or orphaned children living within their nation who are awaiting placement in adoptive homes, either within, or outside their nation. The report shall include the child's age, sex, name (if known), pertinent medical information as allowed by UN law and any other details considered relevent to the child's case.
...it is referring to children who have already been taken off of the streets and are currently residing in an orphanage or shelter. They are awaiting adoption. They are already "in" the system.

In this...
Therefore, it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients, but with the goal of eventually placing these children in an officially recognized shelter, orphanage or foster home, or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian.
...it is referring to children who are still living on the streets, who are not in a shelter, who are not yet awaiting adoption, who are not yet "in" the system. This is a situation that can and does occur in areas of extreme poverty where child welfare services are simply overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of orphans, homeless and runaways. The children referred to here are those (particularly runaways) who have not yet been taken in by their nation's child welfare agencies.

So the "no-threat" and "confidentiality" parts are referring to children who are not yet in shelters, and again, that's something that will occur more frequently in developing nations where extreme poverty exists.

Obviously once they are in shelters they would be cataloged.

Thanks for that detailed reply, I understand the difference now.

But what about implementing data protection measures to protect against abuse of data held on the international database by rogue UN nations?

I await speedy correction here from anyone who is up to date on all UN resolutions currently in force, but there isn't yet one for internationally-shared-personal-data protection is there? :confused:

If not then perhaps something about this could be considered?

Putzi

But what about implementing data protection measures to protect against abuse of data held on the international database by rogue UN nations?

*Music (http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/sony/ps1/ff8intro.mid) echoed through the room*

I resent the implication that we or any other "rogue nation" would do anything untoward with the data in the database set up by this proposal.

Brandon Flibble
Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites

But what about implementing data protection measures to protect against abuse of data held on the international database by rogue UN nations?

We would suggest that such measures are not specific to this resolution, and therefore would be more properly addressed in separate legislation that could more fully consider the nature and requirements of data security.

I believe this resolution is as strong as it can be without hindering it's chances of passage(OOC: Which is evident in the support it got without a TG campaign). That said, I support this measure. The Dourian Empire knows well how the horrors of war can leave orphans behind with no where to turn.

I fully and totally support this proposal and will fight for it's passage.

I believe this resolution is as strong as it can be without hindering it's chances of passage(OOC: Which is evident in the support it got without a TG campaign). That said, I support this measure. The Dourian Empire knows well how the horrors of war can leave orphans behind with no where to turn.

I fully and totally support this proposal and will fight for it's passage.

ditto

This has been submitted again as Protection of Orphans Act.

Approval Link (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=orphans)

Protection of Orphans Act

A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.


Category: Social Justice


Strength: Mild


Proposed by: Iron Felix

Description: The General Assembly of the United Nations;

Recognizing that orphans and homeless children are some of the most vulnerable of all persons in any society and are often ignored or abused;

Recognizing that violence, drugs, war, famine, social chaos, disease and prejudice in many nations have resulted in an unprecedented number of children who are abandoned as orphans or who have become homeless;

Recognizing that the rights of orphans and homeless children are often ignored;

Deploring the terrible conditions that these children suffer in;

Alarmed that these children are exposed to the possibility of being raped, murdered or sold into prostitution and noting that some of these children are extremely young;

Finding this situation to be unacceptable, enacts the following:

1. Member nations are encouraged in the strongest possible terms to fund the construction and staffing of orphanages and shelters for homeless children as the situation in their nation merits.

2. Member nations are further strongly encouraged to establish appropriate child welfare agencies to oversee the well-being of these children and to manage the distribution of aid. Additionally, these agencies are strongly urged to share information to facilitate intranational and international adoptions.

3. The United Nations Child Placement Authority is hereby established to do the following:
(i) Compile a database of all known homeless or orphaned children currently residing in UN nations who are awaiting placement in adoptive homes. The governments of UN member nations shall submit bi-annually a report detailing the number of homeless or orphaned children living within their nation who are awaiting placement in adoptive homes, either within, or outside their nation. The report shall include the child's age, sex, name (if known), pertinent medical information as allowed by UN law and any other details considered relevent to the child's case.
(ii) Act as a clearinghouse for coordinating the efforts of accredited adoption agencies and child-advocacy groups in UN nations and to assist in the effort to place these children in permanent, stable homes.

4. Member nations are reminded that many homeless children, particularly runaways, may be reluctant to accept aid and assistance from government agencies or recognized charities due to fears that they will be forced into an unacceptable situation, e.g., returned to an abusive home. Therefore, it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients, but with the goal of eventually placing these children in an officially recognized shelter, orphanage or foster home, or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian.

so this proposal changes what? i see encouragement, reminders, and a database. i find the language too weak.

Where is it written that resolutions must force nations to do anything? More importantly, where is it written that Mild resolutions must do so?

so this proposal changes what? i see encouragement, reminders, and a database. i find the language too weak.
Thank you for your input and be sure to vote against.

Where is it written that resolutions must force nations to do anything?

this is probably just a philosophical arguement between the two of us. see, i think the object of legislation is positive change.

Thank you for your input and be sure to vote against.

youre welcome, and good luck sir.

this is probably just a philosophical arguement between the two of us. see, i think the object of legislation is positive change.

But this does create positive change. Sure it's little more than a gentle nudge, but it does change things for the better.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The league of Corporate owners (the governing body of Agregorn) is generally against foreign aid, as we see this program. This is certainly the good thing to do, but it is not the right thing.

However, voters have turned out in record number threatening to withdrawal stock share in various organizations opposed to this measure. With reluctance, we endorse this bill, and welcome the improvement of the lives of children around the world.

Our hesitance comes from a simple thought: how is this funded? Agregorn believes charity starts at home, and notes many privatized orphanages (which children can leave if they see fit) are able to make a profit by selling their children to wealthy homes. Those that aren't sold are integrated into the work force at age 15, and continue as productive members of society. It's not a terribly profitable business, but the league feels it is a just organization vital to the creation of a working class in our otherwise business class society. Allowing foreign children who are much worse off than our disenfranchised children may only serve to hurt us as a nation.

Again, the people feel otherwise, and seek to help the less fortunate nations. We ask the world to not take advantage of our kindness, noting that the people of Agregorn, albeit generous, are fickle (and they know it too). If it comes to pass that Agregorn as a whole suffers on behalf of the world, we will withdrawal our support and pledge against this cause. Then again, this might all work out just fine, and our concerns would be for nothing.

OOC: I personally have experience with orphanages and foster care, and this really touches my heart, even if it is out of character for my nation. Bravo.

A brain ball floats to the podium, his body gaurds who sound oddly like bouncing kickballs. The brain-ball speaks to the group of emmissaries, "The elders tell of a young ball much like you. First he bounced three metres in the air. Then he bounced 1.8 metres in the air. Then he bounced four metres in the air. Do I make myself clear?

"While the proposal for debate is of noble spirit and consistent with Spheronic principles, we agree with the representitive of Decapod Ten that this proposal lacks any measure of strength or enforcement. A proposal might as well suggest that puppies are cute and should be petted. The sole effect of this proposal is to create a database that may or may not be able to assist in existing national programs; and may or may not be able to be used by nations to abuse orphans and adopt them into compulsory millitary service.

"Furthermore, while we do not condone bouncing of the seventh variety this resolution clogs the way for more comprehensive and effectual legislation. Thank you and may you bounce in peace."

Brain Ball #2
Spheron One ambassador to the NSUN.

We fear we must concur with the previous speakers that this proposal will have little effect beyond encouraging those who already do work well with orphans, which we hope will go some way towards explaining our utter apathy towards it. It is uncommon to see a mild proposal that does anything useful, and this is not one of those occasions.

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised.

We rise to voice our dissatisfaction with the draft as it is currently written. We would like the assembly to take note of the words of the esteemed representative from Cavirra:

There are no orphans here as by blood they remain in a family and the Elder male and his wives lead the family caring for all in it by blood or marriage. So we see no reason for the UN to come in and tell us what to do with something we don't have a problem with. Also if other nations would develope their family values then they would not have such a problem as this.

Though our nations' cultures are quite different, Kawaiians and Cavirrans share a common appreciation for the extended family. In our nation, orphans have been until recently a rare phenomenon, since it is the custom of our people that should a parent be unable to raise a child, that person's nearest kin have the legal responsibility for it. Ophanages are only for those rare situations where no near kin can be found able to raise the child. "Adoption", the placing of a child in a family outside its blood-kin, is anathema among our people.

We are distressed that the proposal does not address the responsibility of blood-relations regarding adoption. Is not the child's best interest served by being among his own relatives, even if direct parentage is impossible to maintain? And is it not the moral responsibility of those related by the ties of blood to look after their family's next generation, even those not of direct lineage?

We urge this resolution include language, that at the very least, strongly urges nations to place children with their blood-relatives before considering adoption by strangers.

The Nomadic Peoples of Carrionbone would support we would like to see some guidelines added to the accreditation of the adoption agencies. This would be to ensure that the children would truly end up in homes that would care for them rather than being placed where they could once again become children of the welfare state as it were.






OOC: I personally have experience with orphanages and foster care, and this really touches my heart, even if it is out of character for my nation. Bravo.


OOC: I too have RL experience with orphanages, foster care and the adoption process ... and concur Bravo!!

We would thank the representative from The Eternal Kawaii for his reference to what we feel it the only solution to this problem
We rise to voice our dissatisfaction with the draft as it is currently written. We would like the assembly to take note of the words of the esteemed representative from Cavirra:
=================================================
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavirra
There are no orphans here as by blood they remain in a family and the Elder male and his wives lead the family caring for all in it by blood or marriage. So we see no reason for the UN to come in and tell us what to do with something we don't have a problem with. Also if other nations would develope their family values then they would not have such a problem as this.
As this clause below clearly to us shows this will do nothing to solve the true problem just pass it on to other nations who have worked hard to solve it within their own borders.

4. Member nations are reminded that many homeless children, particularly runaways, may be reluctant to accept aid and assistance from government agencies or recognized charities due to fears that they will be forced into an unacceptable situation, e.g., returned to an abusive home. Therefore, it is suggested that aid and assistance be provided in a no-threat environment with assured confidentiality for all clients, but with the goal of eventually placing these children in an officially recognized shelter, orphanage or foster home, or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian.

As this clearly sets my nation to care for other folks abused and unwanted children thus adding a burden on our citizens and social systems based on strong family relations and support for ones on blood linage. As the reference to 'runaways' who have parents who should be supporting them will be included in this system. Thus it gives way to parents dumping unwanted children into the sytem adding to one that due to hardships may already exist and is being dealth with as such as it is. Here parents who refuse to care for their children are criminals when they abuse them and thus go to prison for their actions. There they find they must work to survive and have no more children there to dump on the system.. As for the existing children they are taken in by good citizens from the existing family linage or another who wish chidren but for reasons can't produce their own. Thus we do not make it easy for parents nor children to get handouts unless they work and earn them. We are not a welfare state and have no desire to become one, this will lead to a welfare state here when children are not treated normal and required to follow the same rules to become productive citizens thus parents and build a family that will carry on the nature of our nation.


(ii) Act as a clearinghouse for coordinating the efforts of accredited adoption agencies and child-advocacy groups in UN nations and to assist in the effort to place these children in permanent, stable homes. Also the use of the term clearinghouse To us means a place to sale a product for use by a buyer. Thus we feel is not proper since we would not wish anyone be sold as that is slavery to us and we are against that and believe it is abolished by a current resolution... or at least individual nations are allowed to abolish it or have it and we choose not to have slavery. We do have a prison system for abusive parents.. who are criminals that is very effective in stopping them from having more chilren and passing on their nature to others.

The league of Corporate owners (the governing body of Agregorn) is generally against foreign aid, as we see this program.
Why do you see it as foreign aid? It isn't forcing you to send funds overseas, nor does it force you to accept foreign orphans.

Our hesitance comes from a simple thought: how is this funded?
The orphanages and child welfare agencies mentioned in Articles 1 and 2 are not UN agencies, they are domestic. Fund them however you see fit. That's why nations are only "strongly encouraged" to establish them. You can't force governments to fund things if they can't afford to fund them.

The United Nations Child Placement Authority is funded in the same manner as all other UN committees: Magic.

Allowing foreign children who are much worse off than our disenfranchised children may only serve to hurt us as a nation.
Again, this doesn't force you to accept any foreign orphans.

OOC: I personally have experience with orphanages and foster care, and this really touches my heart, even if it is out of character for my nation. Bravo.
OOC: Thank you!

this proposal lacks any measure of strength or enforcement. A proposal might as well suggest that puppies are cute and should be petted.
So how would you have strengthened it and what sort of enforcement measures do you think it needs? And puppies are cute and should be petted.

We fear we must concur with the previous speakers that this proposal will have little effect beyond encouraging those who already do work well with orphans, which we hope will go some way towards explaining our utter apathy towards it. It is uncommon to see a mild proposal that does anything useful, and this is not one of those occasions.
Again, how would you have made it stronger? What useful changes would you have made which would make the provisions mandatory? Keep in mind that many of the nations with the largest populations of orphans and homeless children are struggling economically and may not have the ability to fund these programs as you would like.

Would you have broadened the powers of the United Nations Child Placement Authority? Given it the power to "take" orphans and place them internationally? I hardly think that would have been a popular solution.

We are distressed that the proposal does not address the responsibility of blood-relations regarding adoption.

We urge this resolution include language, that at the very least, strongly urges nations to place children with their blood-relatives before considering adoption by strangers.
It's a little late for that as the Resolution is almost at quorum and will be voted on soon. I'm not certain that the inclusion of such language is necessary anyway. You'll note that the last line of the Resolution includes the words: "or if possible, returning them to their parents or an acceptable guardian."

Nothing in the text precludes the placement of orphans or homeless children with blood-relatives. In fact, the UN is neutral on the matter. This is something that the Kawaiian people should take up with the various national agencies.

we would like to see some guidelines added to the accreditation of the adoption agencies. This would be to ensure that the children would truly end up in homes that would care for them rather than being placed where they could once again become children of the welfare state as it were.
Again, this is a national matter. If you desire such guidelines then enact them in your nation.

OOC: I too have RL experience with orphanages, foster care and the adoption process ... and concur Bravo!!
OOC: Thanks.

As this clearly sets my nation to care for other folks abused and unwanted children thus adding a burden on our citizens and social systems based on strong family relations and support for ones on blood linage.
How on Earth do you arrive at this conclusion? Nothing in the text requires you to take in foreign orphans.


clearinghouse
Clearinghouse is a fairly common term and sensible people understand what it means in this context. Get over it.

Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky
Delegate, Antarctic Oasis
Chairman, Yeldan Committee For State Security

OOC: I will be starting a new "At Vote" thread when this reaches quorum.

Again, how would you have made it stronger? What useful changes would you have made which would make the provisions mandatory? Keep in mind that many of the nations with the largest populations of orphans and homeless children are struggling economically and may not have the ability to fund these programs as you would like.

Would you have broadened the powers of the United Nations Child Placement Authority? Given it the power to "take" orphans and place them internationally? I hardly think that would have been a popular solution.We have to agree with Mr. Dzerzhinsky here. This resolution, while mild, is about as strong as it can reasonably get without becoming overly intrusive and unworkable.

Jimmy Baca
Adviser to the Mission