NationStates Jolt Archive

This is going to be an OOC discussion, hopefully leading to a proper repeal, replacement, and enough people working together to get the damn things to quorum. I'm just going to say, this is because of my disgust at our lack of ability to actually get this damn thing passed, despite a clear consensus that it needs doing.

I'll cover my initial comments after these links. These links cover a bunch of previous attempts at banning slavery. Where a resolution or repeal is listed I linked it. Oh, and I skipped the "slavery is good" threads.

First Effort: Dancing Bananland

Repeal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11817230&postcount=6)
Replacement (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11283613&postcount=1)

Second Effort: Ikkt

Repeal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12615768&postcount=3)

Third Effort: Quintessence of Dust

Repeal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12639161&postcount=1)
Replacement (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12552845&postcount=1)

Fourth Effort: Douria

Repeal and Replacement (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13164389&postcount=1)


Now for my comments. Ideally we need to find a way to get a replacement up for vote without actually repealing the original. I have a work around solution, but I need a moderator opinion on it(I have a separate thread on it entirely).

That asked, I ask that anyone with a replacement or repeal concept post here, lets get the damn thing done. I'm not counting on mine (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542985) making it through. So lets see what you guys have cooking.

A now-vanished nation by the name of Kiften also looked into this topic:

‘Right to quit after two weeks?’ (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=466612), ‘Repeal/Replace Res.6’ (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=466980), ‘First Draft Proposal: Abolition of Slavery’ (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468347), ‘First Draft Proposal: Repeal Resolution 6’ (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468345), ‘2nd Draft Proposal: Repeal Resolution 6’ (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469202), ‘2nd Draft Proposal: Freedom from Slavery’ (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=469200).

From a fast review or the proposed replacement we like it but.... It has problems as it only works for UN members thus with about three nations for every one in UN possibly dealing in some form of slavery as might be defined by your proposal then trouble.

(6) MANDATES that no UN Nation may allow slaves to be traded through their borders, or their citizens to be enslaved overseas.The part or be enslaved overseas. effects non UN members since UN members will not be dealing in slavery if this is passed thus only ones left are non UN nations and you can't do a thing to stop them. Also don't think the UN has an army nor can it get one together to go stop them... So how do you propose this be done... stopping an overseas nation from enslaving a citizen that travels to it.... Also since it is only a crime for UN members to be involved in slavery as this can't effect those not in UN then citizens from non UN nations can travel into UN nations without legal actions as long as they don't break the laws inside UN national borders. I don't believe you can arrest a slave trader on vaction in a UN nation unless he is dealing in his trade there. You may for reason refuse them entry but then you might find your citizens in more trouble in the home nation of the trader. Thus with three to one odds your citizens will be in more trouble than well off.

4. Prohibits member nations from returning persons to countries still practicing slavery, where there is probable cause to believe such persons will be returned to a condition of slavery or punished for attempting to escape from such conditions; This could be trouble as it is the right of an owner to recover their property.. since it is legal in nations outside the UN then one must honor the ownership of property of non UN members or become subject to them not honoring ownership rights of UN members that might help their property avoid their position in life. Property of a citizen of a recoginized legal nation....... Thus don't plan on visiting the nations that might have slaves... and remember there are three to one out of the UN. Thus to cut trade to a nation may mean little as it is probably already dealing mainly with non UN nations... As they probably pay better for items and have less rules on how things get made.... they just want the product that works as cheap as possible... thus care little for how it made or who makes it.

The part or be enslaved overseas. effects non UN membersNot directly. The procription could (and maybe should) be clarified, but that doesn't make it illegal. The intent is clearly that UN nations may not sell their own citizens into slavery, either to other UN nations or to non-UN nations. Non-UN nations may still engage in slave trade with non-UN nations. Also, this wouldn't ban a non-UN nation from invading a UN nation and taking slaves. The UN isn't going to be punishing nations for being conquered, after all.

I was reading through the past resolutions and I ran across #6. I would say we definately need to repeal this one, for the same reasons that we repealed RoWaM. I will support whatever comes to the floor, and will do what is needed to get it passed.