NationStates Jolt Archive


Pre-teen onwards ought to vote

Thingybob07
26-09-2007, 17:22
What do you think of this proposal?

Pre-teen onwards ought to vote
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.


Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Cossack2

Description:
ALLOWS children from the ages of 12+ to be able to vote.

ENCOURAGES greater freedom for children in every nation

AIMS to give more rights to children

BANS unfair injuries and attacks on children in politics and elsewhere

REJECTS anything that affects children in every countries

OBLIGATES all members of the UN to allow the vote for children under the age of 18 and over the age of 12 to vote
G l o g
26-09-2007, 17:42
What do you think of this proposal?
BAD!!!

Category: Social Justice
Not Social Justice. Furtherment of Democracy.

ALLOWS children from the ages of 12+ to be able to vote.
Children not know enough about world. Sometimes children silly too. Might vote for free candy or ponies.

REJECTS anything that affects children in every countries
What this mean? Reject anything that affect children?

Glog not support.

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador
Cookesland
26-09-2007, 18:00
We don't feel it's any of the UN's business deciding at which age our citizens may vote.

REJECTS anything that affects children in every countries

What about Children's Healthcare, Education Funding, or Seatbelt laws? Sorry, but I don't see the relevence or practicality of this clause

Richard York
UN Ambassador
Ariddia
26-09-2007, 18:50
"My goodness! A large number of adults in this General Assembly aren't really fit to have the right to vote, and you want to force us all to give it to children?

I'm not one to say 'NatSov' for no reason, but really, this isn't an international issue.

Here in Ariddia, Wymgani people can vote from puberty onwards in some local community elections, as well as for the Wehela Iolih, but for most elections and most people the age is 16. We want our citizens to be educated and politically aware."


Christophe Boco (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Christophe_Boco),
Ambassador to the United Nations,
PDSRA
Logopia
26-09-2007, 19:41
We would like to welcome the honrable representative from Thingybob07 to this assembly.

While we believe the goal of protecting children is a noble one and worthy of UN attentions, we have a number of problems with this particular proposal:

Category: Social Justice

This category is meant for resolutions that "reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare". We don't see this resolution doing either. As Honorable Glog has noted, perhaps furtherment of democracy would be a better category

ALLOWS children from the ages of 12+ to be able to vote.

As our Thingybob07 colleague will soon learn, the NSUN comprises nations of people of different species who do not age at the same pace. There are nations composed of sentient penguins, nations with advanced spacefaring technology, nations with magical properties, nations composed entirely of sentient robots, and so on. Specific ages will quite probably be unacceptable for a large number of member nations

Furthermore, this clause assumes that there is a right to vote in all member nations. Just as we have a very diverse demographic, we have equally diverse forms of governments; including dictatorships, oligarchies,meritocracies, and monarchies.


ENCOURAGES greater freedom for children in every nation

AIMS to give more rights to children


We agree in that this are generally commendable goals, however this clauses actually do nothing.

We have to wonder exactly what you mean by "greater freedom". What exactly is the purpose of this clause?

Simply stating that the proposal aims to do something is does not even suggest that member nations should do something. Perhaps the AIMS clause would fit better ina a preamble.

REJECTS anything that affects children in every countries

As previously noted anything that affects is extremely broad. Clearly there are things that affect children in a possitive way, these should not be rejected. Even correcting this clause to reject what negatively affects would not solve the problem. Certainly there are many legal and logical situations in wich any individual (including children) can be lawfully affected in a negative way.

OBLIGATES all members of the UN to allow the vote for children under the age of 18 and over the age of 12 to vote

We would raise the same objections here than to the ALLOWS clause. We would also note that under said ALLOWS clause, the final clause would be redundant.

On a more philosophycal note, we invite the author to seriously rethink the assumption that giving minors a right to vote is an effective way to protect their rights. We believe it would only create a new group of mpressionable and easily manipulated voters.

We would also like to invite the author to seriously consider member nations willingness to have the UN meddling so deeply in their electoral legislation. While we do not generally hold the national sovereignity argument too dearly, we belive this propsal would find fierce resistance in nations who do.

We hope this does not discourage the good ambassador from future participation in this assembly
Mallatarsland
26-09-2007, 21:02
In Mallatarsland, nobody is allowed to vote. Voting is outlawed because it is a bad thing. If people, children included, were allowed to vote, the world would become a place of turmoil.
[NS]The Wolf Guardians
26-09-2007, 21:06
Kyle.935, a six-year-old, 5'8" Guardian stands. "Surely you must be aware that twelve is not always the correct age. Trying to fit a standard across all the different species and races is just foolish. Guardians can vote as soon as they can pass a simple test. Some races might not mature for 50 years. It just doesn't work."
Retired WerePenguins
26-09-2007, 21:34
ALLOWS children from the ages of 12+ to be able to vote.

But vote for what? Nationstates teen idol? Nationstates Online Barbershopper of the Year?

You realize that some nations don't have elections. Now under this they would be forced to have elections but only be required to poll 12-18 year olds.

On second thought 19 year olds should not be allowed tovote for Nationstates Teen Idol anyway. :p
The Yellow Sea Islands
26-09-2007, 22:00
Though we ourselves allow our citizens to vote at the age of thirteen. We feel this is an issue for countries to work out for themselves. The UN should stay out of it.




UN Ambassador, Yuru Namari
Ariddia
26-09-2007, 22:08
OOC:

We would like to welcome the honrable representative from Thingybob07 to this assembly.

We hope this does not discourage the good ambassador from future participation in this assembly


Seconded.


As previously noted anything that affects is extremely broad. Clearly there are things that affect children in a positive way, these should not be rejected.

Such as cough syrup. I always used to like cough syrup as a child. *nods*


You realize that some nations don't have elections. Now under this they would be forced to have elections but only be required to poll 12-18 year olds.


That would certainly yield some... interesting results. :p
Bahgum
26-09-2007, 22:55
Bahgum views this as a national issue and not one for the UN to impose. Here in Bahgum we have a rather progressive and enlightened approach and anyone from the age of ten can vote. Afterall, if they are old enough to work a 20 hour shift down the coalmines, they are old enough to vote.
Thankfully we don't send our womenfolk down t'pit, so there is no need for them to interfere in politics by wasting time voting......
The-Citadel
27-09-2007, 03:02
"As my fellow ambassadors have pointed out, this is neither wise nor within the remit of the United Nations." Galen Serrault shakes his head sadly at the foolishness of the world. "The voting age for the Outer Chamber of the High Kingdom is and shall remain twenty-one. Whilst the children and adolescents of ... Cossack-Two ... may be wise enough to vote responsibly, the High Kingdom is not so blessed."

~ Galen Serrault, by appointment of Her Majesty Ambassador to the United Nations
Cavirra
27-09-2007, 05:08
ALLOWS children from the ages of 12+ to be able to vote.Provided they meet national requirements to do so as set up by a nation.

ENCOURAGES greater freedom for children in every nationIf a child is able to support themselves like most so called adults are then they will get the freedoms but like any adult that screws up if they do they are punished for there actions under laws. Thus hang them for rape at age 12.. try them as adults if they want to be adults when they do crimes or drugs or violate laws that now only apply to those older..

AIMS to give more rights to childrenYou can AIM a gun and still miss and this has done that.

BANS unfair injuries and attacks on children in politics and elsewhereIf they can't take the heat stay our of the frying pan... You get into politics you subject to all sorts of things as you might be in any adult field you might get into... so if you can't take the heat stay out...

REJECTS anything that affects children in every countriesHere you just made this whole proposal null as it just got rejected since it affects children in every countries.... or at least those in NSUN...

OBLIGATES all members of the UN to allow the vote for children under the age of 18 and over the age of 12 to voteWhere is the clause 'if they meet national voting requirements for citizens to be able to vote or even become a citizen. As here they by 12 can vote provided they meet requirements for citizenship in this nation. Finish basic education ages 5-10 then two years social service or military service before becoming citizen and gaining right to vote as well as other rights.

Potbelli Nogutta,
Minister of Education Cavirra,
Ringmaster Cavirrian Circus
Rubina
27-09-2007, 05:20
What do you think of this proposal?That it needs lots and lots and lots and lots of work before we could even think about supporting it.
AIMS to give more rights to childrenBut misses.
BANS unfair injuries and attacks on childrenBut "fair" attacks are okay?

Seriously, welcome to the UN and good for you for just jumping in. Have a gander at the rules for proposals and the various stickies; they'll help a lot.

As previously noted anything that affects is extremely broad. Clearly there are things that affect children in a positive way, these should not be rejected.OOC:
Such as cough syrup. I always used to like cough syrup as a child. *nods*Ooooh, back when cough syrup was really good.

Leetha Talone
blah blah blah
St Edmundan Antarctic
27-09-2007, 10:35
No.
Citizenship in the St Edmundan Antarctic is not granted automatically at any age, it has to be earned... and the "practical" part of that process, which involves two or three years of national service, would not be suitable for children.


____________________________________________________________________________________

OOC: I wonder what age this proposal's author is?
Flibbleites
27-09-2007, 16:25
The Wolf Guardians;13084691']Kyle.935, a six-year-old, 5'8" Guardian stands. "Surely you must be aware that twelve is not always the correct age. Trying to fit a standard across all the different species and races is just foolish. Guardians can vote as soon as they can pass a simple test. Some races might not mature for 50 years. It just doesn't work."

And some races might not even live to be 12.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative
[NS]The Wolf Guardians
27-09-2007, 16:40
And some races might not even live to be 12.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

"Too true! It's discouraging that people aren't aware of the diversity of this existence..."
TheCraigzone
27-09-2007, 16:53
"BANS unfair injuries and attacks on children in politics and elsewhere "

this restricts political freedom to attack children, especially for the disturbingly right wing paedophile party that has managed to win a seat in our parliamentary congress, on the back of a successful children attacking policy.......
Monkeyboin01
27-09-2007, 21:33
What do you think of this proposal?

Pre-teen onwards ought to vote
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.


Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Cossack2

Description:
ALLOWS children from the ages of 12+ to be able to vote.

ENCOURAGES greater freedom for children in every nation

AIMS to give more rights to children

BANS unfair injuries and attacks on children in politics and elsewhere

REJECTS anything that affects children in every countries

OBLIGATES all members of the UN to allow the vote for children under the age of 18 and over the age of 12 to vote



I dissagree. Not only is this a bad idea because children dont have avid knoledge of polocies but they would also be used py their parents for political power. I also think that by giving power to children and banning these socalled "injuries and attacks on children" giving unequal protection than that of adults.
Cavirra
28-09-2007, 08:46
[QUOTE=Monkeyboin01;13087577]used py their parents for political power.[QUOTE]That I disagree with as if parents can control their kids that well then this would be one heck of a better world to live in.

Most parents dump kids on society to deal with and teach things they don't want to teach or don't have the skills to teach because they failed to learn them as kids. Look at all the stuff coming out on what to teach them in school and the argument of what should be on parents and on teachers...


Dolli Lilbutt,
Student Cavirrian Mental School,
Dishwasher Hermin's Hotdogs