NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello, the representative of Southern Ulster here. Our government would like to know what other nations think of the current voting system for the UN. Here are two things we are a bit concerned.

1. If the number of votes are undisclosed until the deadline has passed, do you think we would get a fairer results. Our government didn't vote in some of the previous resolutions because they were foregone conclusions.

2. Would it be a good idea to send out a telegram to all member states when a new resolution is up for vote? Our government has missed the opportunity to vote in several resolutions because our officials forgot to check out the UN board.

Please let us know what you think.

Step 1: Get two endorsements.

Step 2: Go to the United Nations section of the game.

Step 3: Click "Submit a Proposal."

Step 4: Type out your proposal.

Step 5: Look for the category called "Game Mechanics."

Wait, there's no category called "Game Mechanics"? Looks like you just typed out a bunch of stuff for nothing.

Step 6: Try asking in Technical. You might be better received.

Suppressing the votes while leaving the delegate tally would be kinda pointless, wouldn't it? People would be more frustrated by trying to add up a long table of numbers (or constantly be parsing them in a spreadsheet, which I've been known to do). I think a poll of UN forum readers would indicate that people would rather see a running tally than not.

The trade-off to the secret ballot is that supporters and opponents lose the chance to target delegates and try to convince them to change their votes. You say that some of the proposals were foregone conclusions, and you're probably right ... but that isn't always the case. I've seen several proposals on the brink of passage get turned around by intense regional campaigning. In a game of politics, that's a desirable outcome, IMHO.

As to your second question, no thanks. The UN page is one click away from the nation page. The telegram page is one click away from the nation page, plus another click to open the telegram. It's actually easier for you to check UN status than to check your telegrams. Besides, once you get used to the usual rhythm (a new Resolution at vote every four days, with occasional gaps), you can vote quite easily if you want.

The other downside to telegrams is the large number of UN members who frankly could care less about the resolution at vote, and would be understandably miffed by our telegrams pushing their saved telegrams into nothingness. Many players join the UN for gameplay reasons (the raiding game) and never bother to vote. Others (like me) only visit their UN puppet occasionally, when a vote is close or the topic is of particular interest. I get enough Compliance Ministry telegrams and don't want any more clutter.

Step 6: Try asking in Technical. You might be better received.
How about not responding with smarmy comments to nice, politely-phrased questions instead? He wasn't making a proposal, just asking a question.

in rl the secret ballot was seen as a turning point in reforming politics.
however that was to curb bribery, rather than to hide a running tally....

but i like these secret ballots, they could be awesome when it comes to votes. for example, i personally supported 1 as it had 5000 voted for, 500 against, so i was like 'screw it'. SB would make it alot fairer.

however like law abiding criminals said (although in a mean spirited way) just ask technical people rather than resolving it.

... just ask technical people rather than resolving it.

Seeing as *I* would be the one responding to such technical questions, there's no need for a repeat. We can discuss it here just fine.

I think secret ballots would be a lot better. Keeping a count of how many people voted... but now how they voted would be good.

I think secret ballots would be a lot better. Keeping a count of how many people voted... but now how they voted would be good.That goes against what's being asked for here. People are wanting no results until the voting ends. Also, the vast majority of votes are secret. Only Delegates have their names and votes itemized.

I see there is some support for secret ballots although I see the point of lobbying. Anyway, I will see if more nations want to have a say of this. If there is enough support, I will suggest it to the game mod.

For the second point, I can see why it's not worth the effort sending out telegrams. What about a link on the nation page like the outstanding issue link? Possibly too much hassle as well. Anyway, let me know what you guys think.

Secret balloting would be interesting, but not much fun unless you have its natural partner, the "exit poll". The closest thing we have to that is the forum polls when the resolution comes up for debate. Unfortunately, it's been our experience that the subset of NSUN states that post to the forum is not really representative of the subset that actually cast their votes. We've seen numerous cases where a proposal that was overwhelmingly approved/disapproved in the forum ends up with an opposite result in the actual vote.

... Anyway, I will see if more nations want to have a say of this. If there is enough support, I will suggest it to the game mod. ...

You already have (see icons above).

I can't see that secret ballots would get rid of my biggest moan about the voting system -- the fact that the technologically ept are able to reduce the amount of labour involved in telegramming, which means that they are able to contact more delegates and have more chance of getting crappy legislation to quorum/passed.

However, people who can spell or write coherently have an unfair advantage over those who can't, too, and I don't go moaning about that. This isn't just nostalgic Neanderthalism, though. Having the delegate votes visible does at least reassure us antediluvians that votes are being cast, rather than being the outcome of some vast electronic flim-flammery that we're excluded from because we're old or have only one computer. And there's a certain election-night excitement in watching the votes come in.

So would it be a reasonable compromise to show only the delegate votes and the number of votes having been casted?

Um... that's the current system...

I thought the current system is that you can see how the delegates have voted and the total number of votes by all nations. Is that right? What I suggest is that the non-delegates votes are done by secret ballots so that we don't know what the overall results are until all votes are cast. I didn't know that's what we got already, sorry.

Having the results secret until voting ends would be rather silly. We'd have no way of knowing how unpopular or poorly-worded legislation is doing until the very end, making it almost impossible to lobby for or against it. And, since delegate votes are the only public votes, it restricts lobbying to those who have the time and patience to TG all the delegates.

I'd say we have a pretty good system right now.

I see your point. But we can let people discuss the resolution on the forum here. True, not many nations actually use the forum, but if something is really unpopular or controversial, I believe people would like to speak up their minds. Plus, revealing the delegate votes also gives a rough idea how the resolution is recieved.

Unfortunately it literally is speaking their minds and not thinking and reading all other arguments.