NationStates Jolt Archive

Spelling Alphabet and ID Codes
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Gaffa Territories

Description: Believing that a standard, easily used and understood system of identifying vehicles used for international travel and transportation can promote both safety and efficient management of air, space, sea, and land travel, which in its turn will reduce bureaucracy and costs of cross-border commerce;

Recognising that a wide variety of writing systems, using varied alphabets, syllabaries, and number systems are in use among the nations of the United Nations;

Further recognising that, even when languages use the same alphabet, differing names may be used for the same letter or numeral;

Understanding that, except as detailed below, most nations will continue to use their own alphabets, number systems and pronounciations in most situations.

Also understanding that member nations may already have effective systems established for identifying vehicles operated within their nations and that mandated replacement of these systems could be costly and inefficient;

Defining, for the purposes of this resolution, "identification code" as a unique set of symbols (letters and numbers) used to identify specific vehicles;

Defining "standard symbology" as a standard set of symbols to be used in constructing identification codes: the 26 letters of the English ("Roman") alphabet plus the Arabic numerals 0 through 9;

Defining "spelling alphabet" as a sequence of easily pronounced, easily distinguished, two-syllable words representing letters of the alphabet, for example, "ALFA" for "A", "BRAVO" for "B", plus easily pronounced and distinguished pronunciations for numerals, and

Defining, for the purposes of this resolution, an "international vehicle" as any air, space, sea, land, or amphibious vehicle that is designed, intended, or likely to be used for international travel.

The United Nations will:

1. Devise and publish a standard spelling alphabet for use by all operators of international vehicles.

2. Assist member nations, as required and requested, in installing the standard spelling alphabet in their nations.

Member Nations:

1. Shall assign an identification code, using the standard symbology, to all international vehicles registered within their nations.

2. Shall include instruction in the standard spelling alphabet in the training of all operators of international vehicles.

3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use.

4. May continue to use existing systems of vehicle identification on all vehicles within their jurisdictions. Note, however, that the identification code required by this resolution must either replace or be added to such identification of international vehicles, at the nation's sole discretion.

5. May deny access to their lands, territorial waters, and air space to any vehicle which does not bear an identification code in conformance with this resolution or whose operator fails or refuses to use the standard spelling alphabet.

6. Must share information concerning identification codes necessary for effective operation of international organizations or organizations in relevant foreign nations which provide air traffic control, rescue, traffic safety, or similar services.

Co-author: Ausserland

Draft topic here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537042)

Glog vehicle is sled, pulled by old women and dogs. Dogs STRONG!!! Old women weak. Where Glog put identification code? On sled, old woman or dog?

Glog Firemaker son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

Whatever greases yer skids, friend. And here... have a kielbasa sammich. In fact, take two. You're a growing boy.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

:D

Whatever greases yer skids, friend. And here... have a kielbasa sammich. In fact, take two. You're a growing boy.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

:D
Glog Firemaker takes the kielbasa sammiches, sniffs them, places them on the ground and rolls around on them, sniffs them some more, decides they are meat of some sort, eats them.

Ausserland people GOOD!!! Give meat to Glog! Meat GOOD!!! Taste like pig offal, salt and fire weed. Glog return gift.

Hands Ambassador-at-Large Ahlmann a bundle of freshly killed rabbit carcasses, a pointy stick and a necklace made of leather and bear teeth.

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

"6. Must share information concerning identification codes necessary for effective operation of international organizations or organizations in relevant foreign nations which provide air traffic control, rescue, traffic safety, or similar services.""

the dft invader still has a big issue on this, considering it may not want to share certain bits of info about certain vehicles.


ooc: alpha, as in the greek alphabet, not alfa as in alfa romeo.

My main problem is:

""ALFA" for "A""

It should be ALPHA

My main problem is:

""ALFA" for "A""

It should be ALPHA

I don't know that I'd get really hung up on that, as that would be spoken and rarely spelled out, but, for what it's worth, I think you are correct.

ALFA/ALPHA was discussed in the draft thread. If I remember correctly, it's to be a representation of the sound, not the Greek letter.

Indeed. The 'ph' sound is unknown to many people.
Also the 'alfa' was just an example. Who knows, they may choose 'apple' or 'adder' or 'Amy'.

the dft invader still has a big issue on this, considering it may not want to share certain bits of info about certain vehicles.
If you breach the (fingers-crossed) resolution by not informing foreign nations of certain vehicles then you take the rap if said vehicles come to light and the nations get very pissed off. (Excuse my <insert language here>). Moreover the 'effective' operation of an international vehicle of war is to emerge in a suprise attack and it is therefore 'necessary' not to inform the nation's organisations.

Now stop making me do your job of finding loopholes for you.

As explained in the other thread, alpha is the preferred spelling for the Greek letter and is used by the mythical NATO in its spelling alphabet. But the simplified spelling ALFA is used in the imaginary land of RL by the International Civil Aviation Organization, the International Telecommunication Union, the International Maritime Organization, and the US Federal Aviation Administration.

Please note, too, that ALFA and BRAVO are included in the proposal only as examples of the sort of words that would be used in the standard spelling alphabet. The content of the spelling alphabet woulld be determined if the proposal is adopted.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

You should have used apple or aardvark instead; would have stopped people complaining!

I will have to bring this proposal up to my colleges, but i do believe that a standardizes "business" language would greatly benefit the UN and it's constituents. it has my full approval when it come to vote

Diddy- elected leader and ambassador of OMGSTFUNOOB

Initial conversations that have occurred among government officials in Relikmere have made it apparent that we will likely be casting a vote in support of this resolution. Standardizing international communication in the name of safety for all of our citizens is definitely something that our Royal Court and Parliament both clearly support. While I am unable to promise an action until it is up for vote before this Assembly and our government formalizes its position, I will be working to secure a vote for this resolution on behalf of our great nation.

----------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

heres the confirmed un alphabet...

a-aragorn
b-bombadil
c- cirith ungol
d-dunedain
e-edoras
f-frodo
g-gandalf
h-hobbit
i-isengard (they're taking the hobbits to..)
j-eerm jackson (peter)
k-khazad dun
l-legolas
m-mirkwood
n-nazgul
o-orthanc
p-palantir
q-quickbeam
r-rohan
s-shelob
t-treebeard
u-uruks
v-valandil
w-westfold
x-x-ray-----cldnt think of 1
y-yardie----ditto
z-zebra-----ditto 2: requiem

'Eerm' does not start with 'J'.

[ooc: Also, NSers totally haven't done Middle-Earth to death at all.]

Darren Funkel
Acting Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder, Democratic Underground region

Glog talk about UN word picture on sled law.

UN word picture on sled law say:

Defining "standard symbology" as a standard set of symbols to be used in constructing identification codes: the 26 letters of the English ("Roman") alphabet plus the Arabic numerals 0 through 9;
Glog not know Roman and Arab people. Roman and Arab people word picture look like sticks dropped by bird. Roman and Arab people dumb. Glog people SMART!!! Glog word pictures look like this (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/Yelda/Glogalphabet.gif).

Defining, for the purposes of this resolution, an "international vehicle" as any air, space, sea, land, or amphibious vehicle that is designed, intended, or likely to be used for international travel.
This GOOD!!! Glog sled not leave Glog land.

Glog not have air, space or amphibious sled. Sky people have them. SKY PEOPLE BAD!!! Make war on Glog people. Glog people fight with spear, arrow and rock. Sky people fight with lightning. Lightning BAD!!!

The United Nations will:

2. Assist member nations, as required and requested, in installing the standard spelling alphabet in their nations.
This GOOD!!! UN people come to Glog land and make Roman and Arab word pictures. Glog people watch.

Co-author: Ausserland
Ausserland people GOOD!!! Give pig offal, salt and fire weed meat to Glog.

Glog vote for UN word picture on sled law.

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

[Ambassador Ahlmann recovers from being... uh... overwhelmed by the... er... generosity of the G l o g ambassador. Or maybe it was the sight of him rolling around on the kielbasa sammiches.]

"Thank you so much, Mr. Firemaker. The necklace is lovely. And the stick will be very useful for scratching my back. And the rabbits... Yes, the rabbits. And thank you, too, for your support of the proposal. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to run off and dump the rab... uh... powder my nose."

:D

heres the confirmed un alphabet...
<snip>
Perhaps the Darthinvader needs his UN Mathematician. I count more than two syllables in most of his examples. I'm sure the UN is an august-enough body to be able to determine the alphabet as soon as this passes.
(ooc: i.e. we just rp it into being.)

Glog your people are very smart, but the world is full of stupid people than need silly stick pictures as well as curvy pictures and word pictures that look like yours but are not quite the same. As there are more silly people than smart people we have to make sure the silly people can have it too.
I'm sure there will be a nation who will be happy to assist your people in putting word pictures on any sleds that decide to cross the mountains.
I thank you for your support - if you ever care to visit one of Gaffa's Territories I will personally take you hunting big spotted cats.

Gohn Jawey

*Sitting down he passes a note to Ambassador Ahlmann* "I am sure Neville's Australian-Fusion chef can do something with the rabbits in exchange for a nice stout. I just hope they were not invisible ones."

I thank you for your support - if you ever care to visit one of Gaffa's Territories I will personally take you hunting big spotted cats.

Gohn Jawey
Hunting GOOD!!! Spotted cats GOOD!!! Strong and fast! Good prey. Glog kill spotted cats. Skin them. Make robes for all in hunting party.

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

I would like to say that this proposal receives the full support of myself and the entire Council, and we shall be voting our approval when we can.

Patent Eros Tatriel
UN Delegate for Subistratica

Mmm, yes...I think I can say that Tanular would support this resolution if were were up for a vote. It would be conveniant, and it would save our nation a lot of money, as our newly-improved defensive facilities have been forced to shoot at unidentified planes entering our airspace recently (SAMs are not cheap you know). This proposal would set up a system to let us know what country to send condolences to.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby VI
UN Ambassador from Tanular, and
Newly Appointed Minister of Apologies

As previously stated in the drafting thread, Logopia fully supports this proposal. We can definitely see the practical benefits of standarizing the identification of international vehicles. However, we would very much appreciate if the good ambassadors cared to elaborate on how this proposal would improve free trade.

Hmmm...the esteemed representative from Logopia has a good point. Other than stopping me from shooting planes down, I don't see this as helping improve free trade as simply expiditing international travel and rescue operations.

Defining "standard symbology" as a standard set of symbols to be used in constructing identification codes: the 26 letters of the English ("Roman") alphabet plus the Arabic numerals 0 through 9;

As we stated in the draft thread, this clause is the main reason we will OPPOSE this proposal.

Indeed, the Glog representative has already illustrated why: there are enough nations that do not use A-Z and 0-9 to make it ridiculous that the UN would issue a heavy-handed, unfunded mandate to use such a symbology.

We're not convinced of the necessity of this proposal as a whole, but we would have likely supported it had this clause been struck. It was not, and thus we urge all member nations to vote AGAINST this arrogant proposal.

Indeed, the Glog representative has already illustrated why: there are enough nations that do not use A-Z and 0-9 to make it ridiculous that the UN would issue a heavy-handed, unfunded mandate to use such a symbology.
Must use some kind of word pictures, they choose Roman and Arab ones. Not matter which word picture used, but all people must use same word pictures.

Glog not know about these word pictures before coming here but Roman and Arab word pictures easy to make. Glog carve them on rock. Send rock to Scotchpinestan people.

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

OOC: Yes, they could have used something else like Chinese characters or Cyrillic characters, or they could have made up an entirely new set of characters. But why? The Roman alphabet and the Arabic numbers 0-9 are widely used and recognized and more importantly they are easy to write. Even a caveman can do it.

The resolution doesn't require your citizens to learn English or change their alphabet, it simply requires everyone to use a standardized set of characters for ID codes on international vehicles. I'll assume you understand why the character set must be standardized. Which characters would you suggest be used?

"Is this requiring a specific code format, or just the use of the specified characters? I guess what I'm confused about is that unless the code itself is standardized, it's completely irrelevant that the alphabet is. A CWG code in English ('Standard', to us) is just as unique an identifier as a pictographic code of Glog's people. You can tell which nation they came from from its appearance, can't you? My CWG vehicle registration wouldn't actually mean anything to you unless I explained it, other than it's from the CWG. Or is that the sole point? To identify the vehicle's nation of origin?"

The Wolf Guardians;13069540']"Is this requiring a specific code format, or just the use of the specified characters? I guess what I'm confused about is that unless the code itself is standardized, it's completely irrelevant that the alphabet is. A CWG code in English ('Standard', to us) is just as unique an identifier as a pictographic code of Glog's people. You can tell which nation they came from from its appearance, can't you? My CWG vehicle registration wouldn't actually mean anything to you unless I explained it, other than it's from the CWG. Or is that the sole point? To identify the vehicle's nation of origin?"

A fair question. No, the proposal would not require a specific code format. It specifies only the components of the code, not the way they might be put together.

The purpose of the resolution is to facilitate communication, particularly in emergency situations. The standard symbology provides a limited set of characters which would be (or could easily become) familiar to those who would need to communicate the codes. Then the spelling alphabet promotes clarity of the communication.

The ID codes themselves would be, as the representative suggests, essentially meaningless, except as identifiers of specific vehicles. That's the nature of the beast. For example, most license plate numbers in the mythical land of RL are meaningless except as identifiers of the cars and trucks they're placed on.

We did not specify a code format because some nations may already be using characters in the standard symbology and using them in combinations that do (at least in part) have meaning. For example, in Ausserland, all official government vehicles have license plates with codes starting in GV; rental vehicles have codes ending in RE.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

...there are enough nations that do not use A-Z and 0-9 to make it ridiculous that the UN would issue a heavy-handed, unfunded mandate to use such a symbology.

We fail to see how the use of the Roman alphabet and the Arabic numerals is ridiculous. Given it's use in the UN and in many other international dealings, we believe it is reasonable to believe that they are the more widely used character sets across UN members. Even If we are mistaken, your statement about there being "enough nations that do not use ...." will surely hold true for any other existing character set. If you know of a character set that is more widely used than the Roman/Arabic, please let us know.

We hope you do not suggest using a completely made up character set. This would actually be ridiculous. Lets not reinvent the wheel. It would make the system unnecesarily difficult, more expensive, and more time consuming to implement in all member nations.

Allow me to make an oversimplified example. There are aproximately twenty thousand UN member nations. I do not know what you mean by enough nations, but lets be extremely generous and suppose that ten thousand nations use other alphabets and numerals. Why make it harder for twenty thousand nations when we can make it harder on ten thousand? Furthermore, what would be the actual benefit for nations who don't use the exisiting character set if we instead invented one and used it? Why is it worthed to go through the hassle of inventing a new character set?

...we urge all member nations to vote AGAINST this arrogant proposal

The proposal does not assume everyone uses the Roman/Arabic characters. It does require training and makes sure the UN will assit in this. We see nothing arrogant with assuming traffic operators will be able to learn the Roman/Arabic characters. Your argument seems to imply that they will have important difficulties learning it. This we see as a truly arrogant position.

"All our vehicles are just serial numbered, especially as most have their own names for casual use. Not that that's relevant. Of course, none of this is particularly relevant to us, since we don't even use physical vehicles that much anymore. The Citizens have voted that we abstain and let those with an actual stake in this deal with it."

I thank the Logopian ambassador for their assistance in explaining and Glog for showing that if he can solve the problem with er...word pictures...then the Scotchpinestinian(?) ambassador can too.
You do not have to have the ID code on display even, just have one assigned so that if someone asks you your ID code you can tell them it orally, using the spelling alphabet.

Say I bought a lorry of toilet paper in Scotchpinestan. It may have a registration plate in cyrillic but I am driving it back to one of the Gaffaen Territories and I go through several nations. At each border I am stopped, my papers checked including those of my lorry and its load. But only one of the countries I pass through understands Cyrillic and can read the number plate. I have to spend a long time waiting while the others find a translator to check if the lorry is in fact legally owned by me, and that I am registered as a toilet roll lorry driver.
If I had another ID code assigned to the lorry I can show them it/read it out to the border control person and, as it is the standard, the border control can quickly look up the code and away I go with minimum fuss.
I hope this aids those ambassadors who criticised the category.

*blows his nose on some toilet paper in the Scotchpinistanian ambassador's direction*

Ah Ambassador...Wolfman. *quickly stifles a grimace* If you already have serial codes using Arabic numbers your vehicles are already id-ed and have only the spelling alphabet to implement in your space-stations for incoming vehicles.

"Uh... actually, the numbers are rarely printed in a meaningful or visible way on the vehicle. A heavy part of our communication is electronically, so we can instantaneously know the vehicle anyway, just by asking it, and we pretty much say the alphabet by its callsigns, rather than the silly 'ay bee cee' nonsense, anyway. If we must, we'll print the irritatingly long serial numbers on vehicles that travel internationally, but other than military craft and our two starships, most don't, anyway, and they all have military IDs. Anyway, irrelevant, abstain, et cetera. I'll be quiet now."

*cough* Like I said it does not have to be visible. If the ship can tell a foreign spacestation/planet its code using other mechanisms of identification it is welcome to do so. It is the ability for it to be spoken if necessary that is mandated, not its use.

We don't really see why we should vote for this or how it would improve anything. All vehicles in Akimonad substitute barcodes instead of actual letters or characters. How would this affect that?

If I'm allowed yet another oversimplified example...

Aircraft ABE9Z4 approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control, this is A BE E NINE ZEE FOUR, requesting permition to land"

"Acknowledged A BE E NINE ZEE FOUR, please proceed to runway two"

Aircraft AVE9C4 also approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control this is A BE E NINE CEE FOUR, requesting permition to land"

"Geez are they deaf or what... - A BE E NINE ZEE FOUR, please proceed to runway two"

...

KABOOM!

If I'm allowed yet another oversimplified example...

Aircraft ABE9Z4 approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control, this is A BE E NINE ZEE FOUR, requesting permition to land"

"Acknowledged A BE E NINE ZEE FOUR, please proceed to runway two"

Aircraft AVE9C4 also approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control this is A BE E NINE CEE FOUR, requesting permition to land"

"Geez are they deaf or what... - A BE E NINE ZEE FOUR, please proceed to runway two"

...

KABOOM!

Exactly, folks. Under a syllabic system, this wouldn't have happened. Let's see what it would have looked like (using a fictional syllabic system):

Aircraft ABE9Z4 approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control, this is Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Zulu Four, requesting permission to land"

"Acknowledged Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Zulu Four, please proceed to runway two"

Aircraft AVE9C4 also approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control this is Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Charlie Four, requesting permission to land"

"Acknowledged Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Charlie Four, please proceed to runway three"

See the difference? No explosion!
And that concludes today's demonstration.

*makes a note to buy thank you drinks for all those who do his job for him*

We don't really see why we should vote for this or how it would improve anything. All vehicles in Akimonad substitute barcodes instead of actual letters or characters. How would this affect that?
Apart from the situation illustrated so well by the Logopian and Tanul...ish? Ambassadors, I know Newgabe Central Airport does not have aircraft-barcode readers. I imagine you would have quite a few issues landing there.
"Control this is thick thin thin thin thick thick thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin think waiting for permission to land." "Please keep circling, we will need to draw this out and scan it into our computer." <30 minutes later> "Packet of Jammy Dodgers, we do not have a record of you applying to land here. Request denied, try the local supermarket."

Of course it also means UN Building Management could probably complain about you doing this. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12822828&postcount=6098)

Cobdenia supports this resolution, and waits for it's passing in Apples Nuts Tommy Ink Charlie Ink Pudding Apples Tommy Ink Orange Nuts

*makes a note to buy thank you drinks for all those who do his job for him*


Apart from the situation illustrated so well by the Logopian and Tanul...ish? Ambassadors, I know Newgabe Central Airport does not have aircraft-barcode readers. I imagine you would have quite a few issues landing there.
"Control this is thick thin thin thin thick thick thin thin thin thin thin thin thin thin think waiting for permission to land." "Please keep circling, we will need to draw this out and scan it into our computer." <30 minutes later> "Packet of Jammy Dodgers, we do not have a record of you applying to land here. Request denied, try the local supermarket."

Point conceded.

Of course it also means UN Building Management could probably complain about you doing this. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12822828&postcount=6098)

OOC:Ecopoeia?

IC: Hey, it's my jet to with as I please!

~Dr. Jules Hodz
Owns a Jet
Capable of knocking you
off your feet.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13026637&postcount=48

This post from the draft thread should clarify our objection to this proposal. It's not the alphabet we're debating; it's the way in which the alphabet is being determined.

... We still believe the resolution would be better served if it created a commission (of gnomes) to develop the symbology. It's quite possible (maybe likely) that such a commission would wind up recommending the use of A-Z and 0-9. But at least in that instance, a healthy debate on the specifics of the symbology will have ensued. Mandating a symbology in the resolution is a rather heavy-handed way of going about things, ...

We understand the ambassador's point. Certainly no one likes it when an arbitrary decision is forced upon us. Nevertheless, we would argue that this resolution mandating [A-Z, 0-9] is anything but arbitrary. This proposal was submited during the drafting process. I am sure any sugestion of a different set mentioned during this process would have been at least considered by the proposal's authors. The opportunity to healthy debate the good ambassador mentions clearly existed during the drafting of this proposal.

Furhtermore, we sincerly do not see the need for a UN comittee to decide on this particular issue. I do not recall any suggestion for an alternate character set, nor anyone mentioning any practical shortcomings of using [A-Z 0-9]. Had there been a serious discussion about this issue that couldn't be resolved, then we would support the idea of a committee to decide. There is nothing to make us think this issue is so complicated that it can't be addressed in the proposal itself.

The representatives suggestion of creating "a commission (of gnomes) to develop the symbology" strikes us as creating a committee purely for the love bureaucracy. We see no reason to create this commission other than that maybe, possibly, it might have a chance to come up with something better. As so, we belive this commission would be an utter waste of time and resources

If the reason for this comission is that it would be a more democratic or less authoritarian way to decide, we would remind the good ambassador that nations do not participate in UN committes or comissions. An imposition coming from a nations proposal is in fact more democratic than one coming from a group of UN appointed "experts". Proposals are debated and voted. Comittee decisions are simply shoved up our collective... down our collective throats.

Wolfgang, looking rather bemused, spoke to no-one in general. "Thank Existence for our technotelepathic machines... I can't believe people have to go through all this trouble just to ID something..."

At the direction of Her Divine Majesty, I'm hereby abstaining from voting on this proposal.

Karianis has incredibly few 'international' vehicles, since travel into or out of Karianis is practically nil, due to our very stringent requirements for such movements. Most international travel is done by our portals... And I, as the ambassador, am about the only one who uses them on a regular basis. As such, there's only a couple dozen vehicles, primarily ships, that will require this, and as such, this is practically a non-issue.

If this fails, we'll rejoice for another extra law being shot down. After all, we prefer fewer laws anyway. But if it succeeds, we'll deal with it without even a grumble.

Serifina Karin
Ambassador to the United Nations
Sacred Kingdom of Karianis

A bad idea!
ID Codes are always a bad idea.

When someone does something illegal stop him.
But don't create big lists of numbers and what, why and where there did something.

The other part looks good. Change it and I'll vote for it!

Has the ambassador actually read what the purpose of the id code is? We refer him to the wonderful example shown by Logopia and Tanular earlier. (Just ignore the b-v confusion)

And yes I had forgotten what your issue was Scotchpinestan, I apologise. but yes if you recall it was considered and decided unnecessary. Who better than the UN to decide what words are best - using the alphabet most often used by the UN? I really hope such a minor issue does not prevent you from voting for.

Ardchoille votes in favour of this sensible resolution, and would like to reassure non-magical nations on an important point.

We understand that there has been some concern that the use of any proposed sound system may accidentally result in the casting of a spell. However, I am informed by our technical experts that intent is at least as important as content when spell-casting. Thus, reciting "Alpha Bravo Charlie" will tune your radio in to the Ardchoillean Broadcasting Commission only if that was your intention in the first place.

In fact, the technical experts tell me that spell-casting isn't easy even when intent and content are in unison, but you know how it is with technical experts. They like making things sound difficult. Myself, I wouldn't know, so I'm taking this on trust.

Oh, and an update on our Presidential situation: she's back, she's sober and she's in a foul mood. I would suggest that, temporarily, any queries on our government's position on this or any other official matter be addressed to other members of our delegation.

-- Bill Kelly, ArdchoilleaNS.

Although this proposal is at first glance a good idea who will pay the costs for non-English speaking countries to educate their citizens. Although not intended to be does it not covertly legislate against native languages. Was there ever a vote to have English as the International Language.

For poor countries and those proud of their heritage this may be an expense too far.

Apologies if there has been a vote on International languages but wow there are a lot of resolutions to go through.;)

heres the confirmed un alphabet...
x-x-ray-----cldnt think of 1
y-yardie----ditto
z-zebra-----ditto 2: requiem

y-Yavanna

And that is my contribution to the discussion.

As a member of the community of Butumbu, and as a messenger of this great land where megatheriums frolic freely in the nation's many lush forests,

I, Josefa Guadalquivir Chawdhry Rajput, ask for some clarifications:

"Defining "standard symbology" as a standard set of symbols to be used in constructing identification codes: the 26 letters of the English ("Roman") alphabet plus the Arabic numerals 0 through 9; "
Being the roman alphabet, why do we have to use the word "english". Other languages, as French or Spanish, and of course Italian, use these letters. "Roman alphabet" it's just enough and will not, once again, show English as an all-powerful language.
Do vehicles as bicycle, chariot and sleds pulled by dogs are considered international ones ?

If the sentence quoted above is rectified and if it is really necessary for unmotorised vehicles (do I have to say that cars are forbidden in our community ?), we will accept to put a sticker on them whenever they travel abroad.

In the same time, I want to be clear about our regulation in the community: no cars means no cars from abroad too. If someone wants to visit us with his motorised automobile, this person can leave it in a special parking, three hundred meters underground at the border.

I spoke,

Josefa Guadalquivir Chawdhry Rajput.

The Nation of Homith is in full support of this resolution.

The benefits of a common language between all countries is needed and will aid international relations very strongly. We would also hope that all other UN nations support this in order to aid the world relations.

Sincerely yours,
Adrian Stevenson - UN ambassador for Homith

What!? We've been using our Rûnes since the dawn of time! We can't change that, geez! Tor wouldn't know wich wagons to strike if our looks like everyone elses!

We did not specify a code format because some nations may already be using characters in the standard symbology and using them in combinations that do (at least in part) have meaning. For example, in Ausserland, all official government vehicles have license plates with codes starting in GV; rental vehicles have codes ending in RE.

Indeed, our vehicles do as well, generally in the format of CRT(X)(XX[X])-(XX...) where the first (X) is either G, P or M depending on its status (G = Governmental, P = Private, M = Military) the next two or three (XX[X]) is a two or three character code identifying the type or class of vessel, and the last two or more (XX...) are digits unique to each vehicle. The TRSS Kali, for example would be ID'd as CRTMBSG-21 Where as our UN Ambassadorial yacht TRSS Celestus is CRTGSPL-297

OOC:Ecopoeia?
* ooc: not sure what you're referring to, but whatever it is it's nowt to do with me *

There have been a few comments claiming this bill will impose a language upon nations. This is not true!

This bill merely establishes a uniform identification system for vehicles which cross national borders. Almost all such vehicles have codes already, either for their own nation, or for other nations to use when the vehicle enters that country. However, it is very hard for the customs and border patrol agents in Tanular to identify a vehicle using a barcode, the cyrillic alphabet, or a pictographic system. This bill will correct these problems.

There will be no language, just a set of symbols with monosyllabic names.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby VI
UN Ambassador from Tanular

PS. Any nation in need of help teaching their citizens the monosyllabic names and symbols can request help from us, or other nations which have volunteered.

Although this proposal is at first glance a good idea who will pay the costs for non-English speaking countries to educate their citizens. Although not intended to be does it not covertly legislate against native languages. Was there ever a vote to have English as the International Language.

For poor countries and those proud of their heritage this may be an expense too far.



I don't believe the costs for non-English speaking countries would be too great. One must consider that the proposal does not mandate that all citizens learn English. It simply requires that member nations "2. Shall include instruction in the standard spelling alphabet in the training of all operators of international vehicles. ". Furthermore, we would also point out that the resolution clearly states that the UN will "2. Assist member nations, as required and requested, in installing the standard spelling alphabet in their nations. "

This proposal is not attack on national cultural heritage. Id does not mandate an international language. It standarizes a narrow technical aspect of a very specific area of policty. Furthermore, it does not even mandate that this standarization is to replace what already exist. The resolution is quite clear (clause 4 of the section on nations) in that nations can still use their already existing systems.

“Qui? Mai normeco la code per la vèiculu movomoda…”
“Ba teŵon zomošc graonin?”
“Esseche commerzio internaziona, mai trece…”
“Zomošc lä šrtcäŵ! Teŵon meör graonin, bŕałêstin tomör âwspaçïŋ? "
“Mi credence passe es tutto la resoluzione trece.”
“Trajaňoôåṕaťšä bélláta!!”
“Per Deoque strancce, mi della l’una tra facciecce la resoluzione!! Do della tellece te mi alla passe!!”
“Zonošc îb’lattanaṕušcařà!! Ďaínšcïcńe üumasča ça’âör iŋsveŕcnđáß!! VÖŤIN NO ba lißzomošcin trče meör pàßin åŕsčollne çajošc pŕagrbrtrj!!!"

“Qui? Mai normeco la code per la vèiculu movomoda…”
“Ba teŵon zomošc graonin?”
“Esseche commerzio internaziona, mai trece…”
“Zomošc lä šrtcäŵ! Teŵon meör graonin, bŕałêstin tomör âwspaçïŋ? "
“Mi credence passe es tutto la resoluzione trece.”
“Trajaňoôåṕaťšä bélláta!!”
“Per Deoque strancce, mi della l’una tra facciecce la resoluzione!! Do della tellece te mi alla passe!!”
“Zonošc îb’lattanaṕušcařà!! Ďaínšcïcńe üumasča ça’âör iŋsveŕcnđáß!! VÖŤIN NO ba lißzomošcin trče meör pàßin åŕsčollne çajošc pŕagrbrtrj!!!"

I believe our translator has broken.

(The deputy ambassador pauses to slam a metal device against the desk repeatedly.)

And on that note, Altanar votes in favor of this resolution and deems it eminently sensible - exactly the kind of legislation we like.

- Ikir Askanabath, Deputy Ambassador

“Qui? Mai normeco la code per la vèiculu movomoda…”
“Ba teŵon zomošc graonin?”
“Esseche commerzio internaziona, mai trece…”
“Zomošc lä šrtcäŵ! Teŵon meör graonin, bŕałêstin tomör âwspaçïŋ? "
“Mi credence passe es tutto la resoluzione trece.”
“Trajaňoôåṕaťšä bélláta!!”
“Per Deoque strancce, mi della l’una tra facciecce la resoluzione!! Do della tellece te mi alla passe!!”
“Zonošc îb’lattanaṕušcařà!! Ďaínšcïcńe üumasča ça’âör iŋsveŕcnđáß!! VÖŤIN NO ba lißzomošcin trče meör pàßin åŕsčollne çajošc pŕagrbrtrj!!!"

If the purpose of this is to protest the use of the Roman alphabet, etc. then I'm afraid it doesn't. Both of those (RL) languages use Roman letters. If the purpose is to protest the establishment of a langauge, it also fails then. This does not establish a langauge, and it is also for this very reason (lack of understanding other langauges) that we wish to establish a designated symbology. If this is for some other purpose...that's your problem.

Exactly, folks. Under a syllabic system, this wouldn't have happened. Let's see what it would have looked like (using a fictional syllabic system):

Aircraft ABE9Z4 approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control, this is Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Zulu Four, requesting permission to land"

"Acknowledged Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Zulu Four, please proceed to runway two"

Aircraft AVE9C4 also approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control this is Alfa Victor Echo Niner Charlie Four, requesting permission to land"

"Negative, Alfa Victor Echo Niner Charlie Four, there is another airctaft on approach. Please maintain position at the approach beacon until permission is given."

See the difference? No explosion!
And that concludes today's demonstration.

Fixed. You wanted to show that there would be NO explosion, right?

Although this proposal is at first glance a good idea who will pay the costs for non-English speaking countries to educate their citizens. Although not intended to be does it not covertly legislate against native languages. Was there ever a vote to have English as the International Language.

For poor countries and those proud of their heritage this may be an expense too far.

Apologies if there has been a vote on International languages but wow there are a lot of resolutions to go through.;)

No language is being proposed, which is less onerous than it is the mythical world of RL, where ALL aviation communication is REQUIRED to be in English as a standard language for pilots and radio personnel. I think that had something to do with both airplanes and the radio being invented in an English-speaking country.

Regardless, you have no need to worry about linguistic sovereignty.

What!? We've been using our Rûnes since the dawn of time! We can't change that, geez! Tor wouldn't know wich wagons to strike if our looks like everyone elses!

Okay, one more time.

You may still use your runes on your crafts and vehicles. All this resolution is asking is that you place additional UN-standard markings on them, if they're internationally used, and refer to them with the standard syllabary. That's all.

Intangelon and Cascadia vote FOR.

What a pleasure to welcome the G r o g ambassador to the UN, by the way, refreshing and guileless honesty is a rarity in these halls.

One more thing, my august colleagues: national identification of aircraft and the like has usually been accomplished with national insignia, flags, or other idica representing such flags or insignia. The RL USAF uses a stylized white star in a blue circle flanked on both sides by red and white stripes half a diameter of the blue circle wide and one diameter long. This represents the red, white and blue and stars and stripes of their flag. The RL Swedes use a filled light blue circle (featuring a yellow outline) with three yellow crowns in a downward-pointing triangular arrangement. And so on.

The IDs proposed here -- if I am correct -- serve to identify the specific craft. The nationality is still the insignia, is it not?

My question involves the urging of member nations to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use. Isn't this asking people to begin the process of giving up on their national and local cultures? I realize that this simply urges and doesn't require. I also realize that this allows people to continue with their national language(s), but I also know that assimilating a language is the first step to cultural change (in many cases). Maybe I am off here, but it just seems unethical to ask so many cultures to abandon begin to abandon cultural language, which leads to abandonment of cultural tradition, which leads to wide-spread cultural change.

Help me see where I am off. Please don't give the trite and cliché advice that the world is changing and people need to be onboard as the ships sail or they will drown.

Guy William Osmond Riley George,
Ambassador to the UN
Sovereign Nation of The GW Haters of Smurthwaite

"Spelling alphabet" ('ALFA,' 'BRAVO,' etc.) is for vehicle identification. It's what truckers or pilots/air-traffic controllers would use when radioing each other; it's not the alphabet you would use for written communication, and it likely doesn't hold any significant cultural importance. There's no harm in recommending the international spelling alphabet be used in identifying domestic vehicles -- though I really wish it had said "recommended" or "encouraged" instead of "urged." But of course the clause is not mandatory.

Our initial discomfort at the possibility of having to replace our cuneiform-based identification system has been assuaged. Since we use roman letters for almost everything now, and since it's quite common for citizens to be able to read and speak multiple languages, including English, Latin, and koine Greek, we will vote for this resolution.

This continues in the same veing as the Chemical Transport Codes, and we are happy to support such identification standardizations in the interest of international understanding.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

What effect would this have on military vehicles? They are decidedly designed for international travel, and very often used for such.

The Free Land of Rotanimile supports this resolution. Our government has a similar procedure in place, and a standardized form of identification would help to reduce misunderstandings. Misunderstandings lead to war, after all, and war is something that our country does not support. We have few military aircraft, so that issue has little to do with us. Rotanimile has a culture of fluid borders, thus vehicles enter and exit Rotanimile on a daily basis.

- Nathan X. Limior
Ambassador of Rotanimile

What effect would this have on military vehicles? They are decidedly designed for international travel, and very often used for such.

A good question. When we decided to participate in the drafting of this resolution, we referred this specific issue to our Ministry of Defense and Ministry for Security and Intelligence for comment. This is part of what they told us.

Not all military vehicles would be included in the description, "designed, intended, or likely to be used for international travel." In a nation like ours, which structures and equips its military forces primarily for the defense of our homeland, most would not. Those would not be affected by the resolution.

Military vehicles which did fall under the provisions of the resolution would have to have the ID codes assigned. But there is no requirement in the resolution that those ID codes be published. The resolution requires only that information be shared that is "necessary for effective operation of international organizations or organizations in relevant foreign nations which provide air traffic control, rescue, traffic safety, or similar services". Unless and until those vehicles leave Ausserland territory, territorial waters, or air space, sharing information about them would not be "necessary". Even then, the necessity for sharing the information would be limited further to that required for "effective operation" of relevant agencies.

If combat operations are undertaken, the ID Codes would not be used for identification within our military forces. The standard unit identifiers would be used, changed for operational security purposes, as they are now.

Bottom line: Our military and intelligence folks don't see this as any threat to our security at all.

Amadeus T. Tankhurst
Brigadier, AoA
Military Attache

What effect would this have on military vehicles? They are decidedly designed for international travel, and very often used for such.

"When the Kennite ambassador brought up this problem, I urged our gracious leader to have the military of Tanular investigate the matter. Since then, I have received a copy of the report issued by the Tanular 'Best Defense a Good Offense' branch of the military.'

We, the Chiefs of Staff of the BDGF, have looked into the issue of identification codes upon military aircraft and have reached several conclusions.

First, those vehicles involved in international rescue efforts will publicly publish their ID codes in the standardized code format, as these vehicles serve no military purpose except SARs.
Second, military vehicles which are actively involved in offensive war strategies outside of our borders will be assigned codes when they are activated, and those codes will be published only to our military allies, and such codes will be revoked upon cessation of hostilities to preserve our defensive capabilities.
Third, such codes for military vehicles shall never be divulged to enemy, neutral, or non-allied states as the resolution does not require such codes to be published as they are not involved in travel, commerce, rescue, or other such efforts.

Therefore, we hope that other ambassadors realize this will not hamper national defensive or offensive abilities.

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby VI sends a copy of the paper to the Kennite Ambassador.

We would go so far as to say that since military vehicles are not primarily intended for international travel, they would be exempt.

Whatever the interpretation, Snefaldia's armed forces will not be required to use the ID codes.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

The Dicatorship of Magick and Witchcraft has a different type of alphabet that does not use the English alphabet and to require everyone to learn this new alphabet would cause chaos. People may chose to learn different languages and those in politics naturally learn the English alphabet. To change our vehicals and assign numbers to them-why should we? So we vote NO.

Autumn Pantherpaw,
Dictator of Magick and Witchcraft.

It doesn't require everyone to learn the Roman alphabet; it only requires the operators of international vehicles to learn the international spelling alphabet, which is only used in radio communications. Not all vehicles would be subject to this resolution -- just those designed and intended for international travel, like trains, trucks, planes, etc. Finally, there's nothing forbidding you from assigning a local number using your own characters to international vehicles, alongside the international code, of course.

Voting in favor. A well thought-out, straightforward resolution.

"Understanding that, except as detailed below, most nations will continue to use their own alphabets, number systems and pronounciations in most situations."

Please read the resolution before complaining about UN linguistic imperialism or some such.

Darren Funkel
Acting Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder, Democratic Underground region

The Dictatorship of Magick and Witchcraft still has a point. Though the entire population of a country is not required to learn the alphabet and how to pronounce it, the cost to educate ever single international vehicle owner would be enormous. This resolution requires all international travelers to be bilingual. Many nations have companies that employ lower class citizens to do their truck and train shipping, and would no longer be able to employ those citizens since they are unable to pronounce and/or read the English language. And those citizens that ARE bilingual are intelligent and capable enough to get a much higher-class job than truck driving.

In other words, the shipping business would be remade. Shipping costs would greatly increase either due to the cost to educate shippers in english, or to pay the extra cost demanded by those that can already speak multiple languages. Economies would fall, and it would cause further isolationism since businesses wouldn't bother to pay export fees that out weight their profits. There is no good end to this required portion of the resolution. Therefore, my vote at the moment is no

This resolution requires all international travelers to be bilingual.

No it doesn't. It requires all international vehicle operators to know a 36-character alphabet; they don't have to speak English, but they do have to get across a simple identification code. I really don't think this is particularly onerous.

Darren Funkel
Acting Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder, Democratic Underground region

The City-State of Baobandia uses the Roman Alphabet as its main writing code. Nonetheless, we understand and fully support the claims of other nations, who see in this resolution a heavy-handed measure that does not take into account the fact that there are many other alphabets, used by many other nations.

We think that a good way to solve this issue, would be to switch to a purely numerical system, since all nations can grasp the notion of numbers. Dropping letters in favor of only numbers might seem unpractical, given the sheer amount of vehicles involved in international travel, but:
1.- Since the system will be electronical, we might as well use said numbers as an electronic code which can be read by a computer, linked to a database, and finally making controls much easier. And codes can be made longer than what would be practical to remember.
2.- Who says that this system has to be decimal? We can use an hexadecimal system, with digits from, say, 0 to F. This would allow further code combinations, and thus more coded vehicles and/or a shorter code, without the fuss of using an alphabet that's foreign to many nations.

It's worth noting, that even though the examples provided so far use the roman alphabet (which includes 0-9, and A-F when using hexadecimal), other nations should be able to use whatever symbol they have for said numbers, as long as they can be read by a proper system.

Considering this, and after some heavy debating, Baobandia has decided to vote against this UN resolution, written as it is.

This is outrageous!!! Identification system would ruin our economy, because MY nation survives on weapon and counterfeit product smuggling. I know, that most nations don't like cheap products increasing the inflation, but hey, I have to feed my people. I vote... I mean, my nation votes against this unfair law



The Federation of Drunkhobia

1. Shall assign an identification code, using the standard symbology, to all international vehicles registered within their nations.

Ambassador Biddulph Strathfield stands.

"I'm afraid I must wholeheartedly oppose this proposal. The Twafflonian government does not at this time have any department with the resources or authority to impose such absurd regulation on its citizens, and it would be unconstitutional for us to create a new department for such purposes. We let the private sector take care of such issues as efficiency dictates; in fact, if this proposal merely allowed member nations to refuse admittance of vehicles not bearing this arbitrary identification code (as in Clause 5), it would be more useful and have more effect in Twafflonia, without any unnecessary expenditures--in that owners of "international vehicles" would be behooved to adopt the identification system (at their own expense and discretion) in order to grant their vehicles maximum international mobility."

Strathfield takes a sip of water.

"Of course, even if it passes it shall have no effect on the Twafflonian government policies, not because we shall ignore it, but because the wording of the resolution requires this new identification system to only apply to international vehicles already registered with the member nations--and as Twafflonia has no registered vehicles the resolution does nothing. Except, I suppose, grant us UN-sponsored authority to refuse admittance to any vehicles without the ID system. That said, my vote is respectfully against."

The Ambassador sits again.

1.- Since the system will be electronical, we might as well use said numbers as an electronic code which can be read by a computer, linked to a database, and finally making controls much easier. And codes can be made longer than what would be practical to remember.

Maybe your system is electronic (I think that's what you meant by "electronical"), but Goobergunchians like being able to see things for themselves for when technology goes bad. Debugging is a technician's best friend. Luckily, there's nothing in this resolution that requires electronic systems for ... anything.

Darren Funkel
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder, Democratic Underground region

Description: Believing that a standard, easily used and understood system of identifying vehicles used for international travel and transportation can promote both safety and efficient management of air, space, sea, and land travel, which in its turn will reduce bureaucracy and costs of cross-border commerce;

Echoing the sentiment that an universally used identification system is vital to the safety and security of international travel ...

Understanding that, except as detailed below, most nations will continue to use their own alphabets, number systems and pronounciations in most situations.

... applauding the authors for their magnanimous understanding of the various languages of the world, and their efforts to preserve them...

Defining, for the purposes of this resolution, an "international vehicle" as any air, space, sea, land, or amphibious vehicle that is designed, intended, or likely to be used for international travel.

... and expressing our thanks to the authors for applying this act only to international travel, and not to all travel (my nation wishes to emphasize this point)...

... the Nation of New Sequoyah enthusiastically casts its vote in FAVOR of this legislation.

Lieut. Gen. John Brown Gordon (Ret.)
UN Ambassador for the Nation of New Sequoyah

the daft invader points that if the rohirrim were to have these id codes as they rode to gondor, the soldiers of gondor may have fought better as there border cops would have logged a load of rohan registered horses onto the system and would have theor resistance steeled.

and also, the daft invader also wishes to point out that pirates may wish to be the exception as they don't really have a nation, as pirate island and skull cove are secret. and they dont want to be identified.

YAGH!
MUSTER THE ROHIRRIM!

I think, that this ID thing shouldn't be compulsory to all nations


Vartu Kerlon

Leader of The Federation of Drunkhobia

please will the gaffa territories note various rl examples of modern combat, where overtly coming in to an enemy country is necessary as it is better politically to let the bad guys know you're coming, yet leaving exact details out.
-Desert Storm (in particular Panavia RAF Tornados blowing up airfields).
-St Nazaire raid by RAF Lancaster's & Royal Marine Commando's.
-Consistant French operations in Libya, 1984 by Jaguar bombers.

These examples all were quite overt but there actual vehicle types and real purposes were fake. Eg St Nazaire, the Destroyer flew Kraut colours.

This would not be possible under this resolution, therefore making the attack illegal in the eyes of the UN as it breaks a resolution. Thecraigzone would not want to change military ops and jepoardise losing the moral high ground just cos it semi deceives the enemy before killing them all.

also by monitoring classification and traffic of military in peacetime, it may jepoardise emerging tech and tell thezones many enemies of what we have.

thecraigzone reserves the right to ignore this resolution on military vehicles. it doesnt actually care in regards to private vehicles and doesnt care about going to other countries anyway as they smell.

please will the gaffa territories note various rl examples of modern combat, where overtly coming in to an enemy country is necessary as it is better politically to let the bad guys know you're coming, yet leaving exact details out.

...

This would not be possible under this resolution, therefore making the attack illegal in the eyes of the UN as it breaks a resolution. Thecraigzone would not want to change military ops and jepoardise losing the moral high ground just cos it semi deceives the enemy before killing them all.


The Nation of New Sequoyah wishes to point out that, as a general rule, in an invasion, an invaded nation does not wish to allow their enemies military to cross their border. Nevertheless, despite of lack of permission, the invader stills proceeds. Therefore, even if permission must be requested, the invaded nation will never permit the invading nation to carry out an invasion, and the invading nation will still ignore the protests of the invaded. Wars will still be carried out in the same manner after this act is passed (as it surely will) as before the act.

Lieut. Gen. John Brown Gordon (Ret.)
UN Ambassador for New Sequoyah

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby VI sends a copy of the paper to the Kennite Ambassador.As directed by Sir Bodsworth, the memo detailing information on Tanulari military vehicles is sent to the "Kennite Ambassador," suspected 'insurgent' (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13039637&postcount=109) Susa Batko-Yovino, who at the time was still playing slots in the casino upstairs:

"What the hell is this?"

"It arrived from the Tanulari office, sir. It's addressed to you."

Susa grabs the envelope, opens it and reads the missive inside, his eyes widening with interest.

"Yo, see if them Tanular military guys are active anywhere right now, and try and score a government flight there. We're gonna light us up some Humvees! Hells, yeah!"

TO: Ambassadors & Delegates of the United Nations
FROM: The Office of the UN Ambassador, The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere (DGI)
RE: Current Resolution Up for Vote

Due to the temporary absence of Relikmere's UN Ambassador while he is tending to government business in Relikmere City, I have been asked to draft our country's position on the matter and distribute it as it is likely he will be returning just before voting concludes on this matter.

While our Ambassador, His Very Royal Highness Prince Dirk Koller, initially supported this resolution and was hoping to be voting in favor of it on behalf of Relikmere, I must inform you that both the House of Parliament and the Royal Court have expressed reservations and objections that cause concern.

Among their reasons for not supporting this change are:

1) Cost associated with adding an additional system of identification or replacing our current system with this one. We do not have funds set aside to go back and provide additional identification plates for all of our currently registered vehicles. Additionally, we strive to keep our costs low for our citizens to register their vehicles and therefore are opposed to forcing them to pay to re-register or to pass the added cost on to them at this point in time. There will also be a substantial cost for training those who operate international travel vehicles as well as many of our government officials in the workings of the new codes. Since our officials that work with border crossings are already effectively trained in working with the systems of identification that we frequently encounter from those crossing from other countries, we do not see a benefit from having to pay for additional training for a new system.

2) There are concerns about the last clause in the resolution and how and when information would be shared with other organizations. Out of respect for both our own national security and the privacy of our citizens we are not prepared to roll out lists of everything registered within our country and to whom it is registered. We are willing to do as we currently do which is responding to inquiries for information from other nations and organizations and then sharing what is relevant for their purposes. Because this last clause is ambiguous as to how the information is shared, we feel we have cause for concern.

3) Related to the second concern, if there is not some outside organization keeping a clearinghouse or listing of identification codes being used by member nations, there is the possibility of vehicles having the same identification number. Since it is being left up to each nation to determine the way they would like the codes set up for their vehicles (which we do appreciate, however), without each nation having to report this information, there is no way to guarantee and then the purpose of having unique identifiers is lost.

Those are the three main concerns expressed and while we appreciate the spirit and purpose of the resolution, we simply cannot support it at this time.

Further questions or responses can be directed to our office.

-------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Irwins, P.Aff.M.
Senior Assistant to the UN Ambassador &
Acting Ambassador to the United Nations
The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere

I completely disagree with this proposition. I feel it's just another way of popularizing the English language, and a smack in the face to International countries. Not everyone knows English...

Even if we were to switch to this international id code, at least use the same spelling of English, rather than making it complicated and using phonetic spelling--which is ridiculous.

So, I propose to you all to go AGAINST this most absurd proposition, if you feel it necessary, then enact it in your own countries, or send a better proposition to the UN that doesn't nationalize English. It's completely biased, even though it says using the "Roman" letters and "Arabic" numbers. Their are plenty of Roman languages like Latin, French, Spanish, etc.

:gundge:

I completely disagree with this proposition. I feel it's just another way of popularizing the English language, and a smack in the face to International countries. Not everyone knows English...

Even if we were to switch to this international id code, at least use the same spelling of English, rather than making it complicated and using phonetic spelling--which is ridiculous.

So, I propose to you all to go AGAINST this most absurd proposition, if you feel it necessary, then enact it in your own countries, or send a better proposition to the UN that doesn't nationalize English. It's completely biased, even though it says using the "Roman" letters and "Arabic" numbers. Their are plenty of Roman languages like Latin, French, Spanish, etc.

:gundge:

We've not entered into this discussion much so far, mainly because the distinguished representatives of several other nations have done a fine job of defending the resolution. We very much appreciate that.

The contention that this somehow is intended to "popularize" or "nationalize" the English language is completely illogical. Not one single person in any nation will be required to learn the English language. People will be required to be able to recognize a set of 36 characters, period. And only those who are actively engaged in operating or controlling international traffic will have to do that.

As for a spelling alphabet (not a phonetic alphabet) being ridiculous, that's equally absurd. We have to wonder why, if it's so ridiculous, spelling alphabets are so commonly used by military forces, pilots, seafarers, law enforcement personnel, firefighters, emergency medical service personnel, and many, many others in the mythical land of RL. Obviously, the representative is clueless about the realities of trying to verbally communicate alphanumeric data via electronic media. Especially in times of emergency, spelling alphabets are a necessity for clear and reliable comminication.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8113/julienquanbju4.jpg

Ariddia's deputy ambassador (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Julien_Quan) addresses the General Assembly briefly.

"Mon gouvernement me demande de vous faire remarquer qu'il s'agit bien de l'alphabet latin (ou "romain", admettons) et non pas anglais. A ce regrettable détail près, la République démocratique, sociale et populaire de l'Ariddia apporte son soutien à cette proposition. Je vous remercie de votre attention. Veuillez m'excuser pour la brièveté de mon intervention."

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8113/julienquanbju4.jpg

Ariddia's deputy ambassador (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Julien_Quan) addresses the General Assembly briefly.

"Mon gouvernement me demande de vous faire remarquer qu'il s'agit bien de l'alphabet latin (ou "romain", admettons) et non pas anglais. A ce regrettable détail près, la République démocratique, sociale et populaire de l'Ariddia apporte son soutien à cette proposition. Je vous remercie de votre attention. Veuillez m'excuser pour la brièveté de mon intervention."

We thank the honorable Deputy Ambassador for his comment and his support for the resolution. His remarks point up an annoying but (we believe) inconsequential technical flaw in the resolution. We should not have included the parenthetical "Roman", since the Roman alphabet included only 23 letters.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii (mtCObp)

After some consideration, our nation has decided to support this resolution. While we would prefer to use katakana to symbolize abstract sounds, we have found that romaji, what you call "English" or "Latin" characters, are fairly common throughout NSUN nations. So much so that in recent years we've noticed romaji becoming almost a 4th script among our people. Far from imposing another language, we feel that this has enriched our own.

[The Kawaiian NSUN Nuncia finishes her statement, and begins rambling a little at the microphone.]

That, and I've always wondered how romaji characters were pronounced. You know, in hirigana and katakana, the character's name is the same as it's pronunciation. I've always wondered why romaji doesn't work like that. Like, I never knew that the romaji "A" is prounounced "alfa". Isn't that cool?!?

[The Nuncia wanders away from the microphone, chanting "alfabravocharlie, alfabravocharlie" to herself before her assistants hustle her away from the dais.]

Those complaining about imposing the English language...please don't make me or my fellow ambassadors persistently repeat ourselves. Or I will start using my UN card deck. It has come up and been explained several times now in this debate. Please read the transcript!

(ooc: i.e. if you've just arrived plaese see if your question has been answered before.)

For those wondering over the use of 'English' as opposed to any similar alternative 'Roman' language.
English is the most common language (see NSWiki)
Accented letters are not included - they would have been had we used French for instance as illustrated so well by my Ariddian counterpart.

Military issues have been brought up a lot, most often by the Daft Invader. I refer you back to the drafting topic where as far as I am concerned settled this issue. If you are invading you are going to invade whether you are given permission to or not. If you think an invading force is simply going to walk into Country M without being attacked then you must be pretty good at subterfuge. Heck you could even give a false id!
Nor is it necessary to give nations military id codes unless you are doing an airshow or something, in which case...where's the problem?

And just to make this point perfectly clear:
Nowhere does this proposal mandate that the id code is to be displayed on the vehicle. Only that it exists.

___________________________________
ooc: I knew I should have changed the registerable in own nation bit to relevant nations. Oh well. I also apologise for errors, it's 2:50am and I've had several drinks.
But what I really came here to say is that I'm apparently leaving for Finland in 12hrs and will not be returning until Monday. This was unplanned and I apologise for not being able to defend my proposal until then.
Thank you to all those players/nations who defend it in my absence for me.

Hmm... after further examination of this proposal, I believe if it passes I will advise the Twafflonian Department of Social Policy to simply check with all vehicle manufacturers to be certain that serial numbers in the Roman alphabet and or Arabic numeral system are already assigned to every product (if not necessarily kept track of). That meets the literal requirements of the proposal. And we will, as we must, share what we know about these "Identification Codes" with international organizations as necessary. Although we won't know much.

Unfortunately, the same tactic cannot be taken by states that use different alphabets or number systems. Twafflonia's position remains against this proposal.

I maintain that this proposal establishes unnecessary bureaucracy over an issue that is best left to the efficiency of the private sector and to individual states.

This Seems pretty straight forward, if i have read correctly then all nations using other writing systems would just have to now learn the Latin Alphabet and Arabic Numerals, not the entire population.

This we believe will help the world greatly with communication so Cookesland votes FOR.

Richard York
UN Ambassador

From: The Office of the Emperor, Solara Prime
To: United Nations

Respected foreign nations,

The Holy Emperor of Solara Prime has made this declaration about this proposal.

"All craft and vehicles under the purview of Solara Prime belong exclusively to either the Emperor or to private citizens within the empire's borders. I will never force my citizens to place foreign symbols on their private property. Npr shall I place these foreign symbols on my own craft. We have thousands of spacecraft, several space stations, and an innumerable number of other vehicles that commute daily to neighboring countries for the sake of commerce and work, all these vehicles have owners who have the exclusive right to do as they wish with their property.

I will never support a proposal that forces any citizen to place on their person or their property any mark which is mandated for the very act of trade or commerce. This is what many religious persons in our nation regard as a prelude to the mark of the beast.

If a foreign country will refuse to do trade with us because we will not ruin the aesthetic value of our famously beautiful craft with unsightly placards and symbology then feel free not to trade with us. However it is immoral and unethical to force any person or nation to vandalize their property with unwanted symbology.

It is very similar to forcing every person in our country to have graffiti painted on their starcruisers. I am opposed to graffiti, especially if it is placed on property against the wishes of that property's owners.

This are the words of our nation's leader.

Thank you,

Reginald Carozy
Ambassador, UN, Solara Prime

Maybe your system is electronic (I think that's what you meant by "electronical"), but Goobergunchians like being able to see things for themselves for when technology goes bad. Debugging is a technician's best friend. Luckily, there's nothing in this resolution that requires electronic systems for ... anything.

Darren Funkel
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder, Democratic Underground region

Indeed, electronic, my apologies - Baobandia's dialect can be a bit confusing sometimes.
And this works both ways - for some reason, I thought the resolution proposal would require at some point an electronic system. Either way, numbers can be converted to any alphanumeric code, and even some alternative codes such as colors. It might be a bit unpractical, yes, but it's a lot less heavy-handed than forcing the supremacy of the Roman alphabet.

This is an affront to the people of Stassan! If the world does not wish to adopt the cryllic alphabet, they should not impose their will on our good people!

I will never force my citizens to place foreign symbols on their private property.I wonder how ari traffic controllers in Solara Prime manage...

"Hey, you! Plane! No, not you, the other guy! The red one! NO! Not the burgandy one, the red one!"

The house of Lords of the Constitutional Monarchy of Giorgioria has, by a vote of 92-8 approved of this UN resolution. We do recognise the benefits provided and fail to see the logic behind objections to this proposal.

Intangelon - thanks good reply I will now accept the proposal as drafted:fluffle:

*Deputy Ambassador Maddalena Pedrana enters the chamber, ready to cast Brutland and Norden's vote, but sees that the Nord-Brutlandese vote had already been cast (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13071576&postcount=55) along with a garbled conversation is Nord-Brutlandese and some other language, and as a consequence, the Altanari deputy ambassador destroyed her translator machine (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13071601&postcount=56)...*

"What the-?! Somebody cast our vote before?"

*She looks for that teenager Kyle di Fontana and berates him in angry Nord-Brutlandese (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Nord-Brutlandese).*

"What were you saying? Look, right there, your working is up there in the vote tally... and since when did you understand that language? And would you think we'd have to resort to another language just to cuss at you? Tu s'scatto pocca! And... don't you know that the official vote of Brutland and Norden is FOR the resolution?"

*She turns on her heels and heads for the podium*

Greetings!

We apologize for the mix-up. The United Kingdom of Brutland and Norden votes FOR the resolution. Though it is too early to tell, the vote tallies are very close, and as such, we will try to lobby for it in our home region.

Thank you very much.

Maddalena Pedrana
Acting Nord-Brutlandese Ambassador to the United Nations

From: The Office of the Emperor, Solara Prime
To: United Nations

Respected foreign nations,

The Holy Emperor of Solara Prime has made this declaration about this proposal.

All craft and vehicles under the purview of Solara Prime belong exclusively to either the Emperor or to private citizens within the empire's borders. I will never force my citizens to place foreign symbols on their private property.

/snip/

I will never support a proposal that forces any citizen to place on their person or their property any mark which is mandated for the very act of trade or commerce. It is very similar to forcing every person in our country to have graffiti painted on their starcruisers. I am opposed to graffiti, especially if it is placed on property against the wishes of that property's owners.

This are the words of our nation's leader.

Thank you,

Reginald Carozy
Ambassador, UN, Solara Prime

We'd ask the Ambassador to please point out to His Imperial Majesty that nowhere in the resolution does it require the ID code to be displayed on any vehicle. It only requires the code to be assigned to vehicles. Compliance would have no effect whatsoever on the aesthetic value of your nation's vehicles.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

I completely disagree with this proposition. I feel it's just another way of popularizing the English language, and a smack in the face to International countries. Not everyone knows English...

Even if we were to switch to this international id code, at least use the same spelling of English, rather than making it complicated and using phonetic spelling--which is ridiculous.

So, I propose to you all to go AGAINST this most absurd proposition, if you feel it necessary, then enact it in your own countries, or send a better proposition to the UN that doesn't nationalize English. It's completely biased, even though it says using the "Roman" letters and "Arabic" numbers. Their are plenty of Roman languages like Latin, French, Spanish, etc.

:gundge:

Fail. So very, very fail. RTFR.

Benji reaches for his gavel to punctuate his pronouncement, only to see that Sephora has once again kyped it to open walnuts.

Intangelon - thanks good reply I will now accept the proposal as drafted:fluffle:

My pleasure -- glad I could help. Thank you!

My government has no objections to the basic concept presented here, but thinks that this proposal as currently worded does -- as the Acting Ambassador for Relikmere has already pointed out -- contain a serious omission.

3) Related to the second concern, if there is not some outside organization keeping a clearinghouse or listing of identification codes being used by member nations, there is the possibility of vehicles having the same identification number. Since it is being left up to each nation to determine the way they would like the codes set up for their vehicles (which we do appreciate, however), without each nation having to report this information, there is no way to guarantee and then the purpose of having unique identifiers is lost.
If vehicles' identiifying codes are to be assigned by the separate nations in this way then should there not also be mandatory use of a code-sequence identifying the vehicle's nation of origin, to be placed before its individual identifier?

Given this problem, we are unfortunately unable to vote in support of the proposal. We would, however, be perfectly willing to vote in favour of a suitably altered draft if this one is either voted down or withdrawn.


Alfred Devereux Sweynsson MD,
Ambassador to the United Nations
for
The Protectorate of The St Edmundan Antarctic
(and still required to wear this blasted penguin costume...)


_________________________________________________________________

OOC: Oh, and not that I object to the idea of my nation receiving a “Significant” economic boost, not at all, but I don’t see how this proposal would really be more than “Mild” in its effects.

As a member of the community of Butumbu, and as a messenger of this great land where megatheriums frolic freely in the nation's many lush forests,

I, Josefa Guadalquivir Chawdhry Rajput, just want to clarify the alphabet issue :

Those complaining about imposing the
For those wondering over the use of 'English' as opposed to any similar alternative 'Roman' language.
English is the most common language (see NSWiki)
Accented letters are not included - they would have been had we used French for instance as illustrated so well by my Ariddian counterpart.

Hum, sorry but I have to say that French alphabet have only 26 letters, in fact it'sexactly the same as the English one. Accents are not included in the alphabet. Anyone who say the opposite is an ignorant and don't know anything about French. Do I have to say that I'm French and French teacher to stop any more debates ? So why do we have to say "English alphabet" when it's, in fact "Roman alphabet " ?
The 23 letters alphabet existed and is the original latin alphabet. The classical one. But nowadays there's a modern one, as there's a modern Greek or a modern Hebrew. Or maybe "English alphabet" is in runic ?

If the specific line in the resolution discussed here is not changed, and "English alphabet" deleted, we will be forced to vote "no". If it's not possible, we will still vote "no", but if reason prevail, and English supremacy left apart, we will vote "yes".

I spoke,

Josefa Guadalquivir Chawdhry Rajput.

I am against as long as this is in it:


"3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use."

Change wording to

"May adopt the standard alphabet for their domestic use if the nation desires, but is under no obligation to do so."

If the specific line in the resolution discussed here is not changed, and "English alphabet" deletedIt cannot be changed without this being voted down and then resubmitted with altered text (which will then need to reach quorum again). Seems a little excessive for what is little more than a ridiculous semantic argument.

As a member of the community of Butumbu, and as a messenger of this great land where megatheriums frolic freely in the nation's many lush forests,

I, Josefa Guadalquivir Chawdhry Rajput, will vote No.

In the same time, we will print stickers in "Roman alphabet" and urged our citizen to use whatever language and alphabet they want.

It's a little bit excessive, but, in our case, it's only a resolution about a sticker on a bicycle (or a sled pulled by dogs), so we can deal with it.

Very good idea, it could create new jobs because specialists are needed to help the enterprises to work out standard spelling systems or cope with the given sytem. To make sure the employment rate rises in conclusion of the standard spelling programme, I would strongly recommend to include in the programme text that such specialists MUST NOT be recruited in the overseas, but trained in the inland. Another addition must be to delete 3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use.

Otherwise, the Democratic Republic of Hayukania has to vote against this resolution.

<snip> Another addition must be to delete
3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use.

Otherwise, the Democratic Republic of Hayukania has to vote against this resolution.

You're merely being urged to adopt it, not obliged, required or mandated.

Even such a notoriously compliant nation as Ardchoille has been known, on occasion, to resist certain urges.

-- Dicey Reilly, wrongfully President for Life of Ardchoille.

OOC: Nothing can be changed now, because it's been submitted.

I'm new at this whole thing so please bare with me, or ignore my rantings if you please.

The underlying subject of this resolution scares the hell out of me! The first question that comes to mind is exactly "WHO" will maintain the huge data base it will require to store all the codes of all these vehicles and all the information that the codes entail?

Then exactly "WHO" will insure that each and every nation has free access to all this information?

Who exactly is it that is going to regulate the "WHO" that is the big brother of all these codes?

I dunno.... it kinda sounds like putting a chip in all of our asses to me, and that just plainly scares the shit out of me.

So..... The Great Nation of Egy Nemzet will have to decline from supporting this resolution.

The 23 letters alphabet existed and is the original latin alphabet. The classical one. But nowadays there's a modern one, as there's a modern Greek or a modern Hebrew. Or maybe "English alphabet" is in runic ?

Actually, we're lobbying to have þe letter Þ reintroduced into þe English alphabet, since it seems rather silly to be constantly using two letters to record a sound when þere's a perfectly good single one for þe job.

Egy Nemzet, when UN resolutions don't specify the WHO of things, it's assumed the tasks will be undertaken by the UN Gnomes.

They're the mob who make sure that all UN nations comply with UN resolutions, who run around counting your population and doing surveys about your nation's intelligence, staffing committees ... everything that the UN demands.

They're absolutely incorruptible (and don't think we haven't tried), utterly tireless, innumerable, omniscient, imperturbable, accurate, patient beyond belief and, clearly, Imbued With Powers Beyond the Dreams of Mortal Man.

I'm new at this whole thing so please bare with me, or ignore my rantings if you please.

The underlying subject of this resolution scares the hell out of me! The first question that comes to mind is exactly "WHO" will maintain the huge data base it will require to store all the codes of all these vehicles and all the information that the codes entail?

Then exactly "WHO" will insure that each and every nation has free access to all this information?

Who exactly is it that is going to regulate the "WHO" that is the big brother of all these codes?

I dunno.... it kinda sounds like putting a chip in all of our asses to me, and that just plainly scares the shit out of me.

So..... The Great Nation of Egy Nemzet will have to decline from supporting this resolution.

OK. We don't see any rantings in your comments. They're questions. So they deserve answers.

First off, we hope you understand that there's nothing in the resolution that requires maintenance of any international database of codes. Nations will certainly want to keep track of codes assigned within their nations. But keep in mind also that the codes need only be assigned to vehicles operated internationally.

Second, please take another look at Article 6 of the resolution. That's the only part that sets any requirement for sharing code information. Nothing says "each and every nation" will be getting access. Say an Egy Nemzet airline company flies a passenger service to and from Ausserland. It uses only 3 of its 19 planes on that route. It has to provide the ID codes of those three planes to the Ausserland ATC people. The other 16 are only used domestically. No requirement to assign codes at all. And the three planes with codes never fly to Wailele Island or Texasylvania. Those countries don't need the codes and nothing says you have to give them any information about them.

Hope that helps eliminate your concerns. And welcome to the UN.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the UN

*The Representive of Ghostlin listens to the debate, looking annoyed and yawns, and seems to 'wait his turn' to speak.*

My fellow delegates,

For the sake and ease of public safety between international countries, Ghostlin votes YES on the proposal. The impact is very small, something we should be doing anyways as a global body, and unlike some of the nations who have voted on it previous, Ghostlin fails to see why compliance would end the world or kill babies. *The last sentence oozes and drips sarcasm.*

It is admirable that the proposal has the UN plan to assist with the creation of such a system and implement it in countries less fortunate. While The Serene Republic applauds this, and understands the impact is limited, Ghostlin has asked the question more than once, how do we get the funds for all this, anyway, since one of the Resolutions already passed seems to limit any monies coming into the UN. Ghostlin has also drafted a proposal to repeal that resolution, but it is failing in quorum.

Regardless, I hope to enjoy travel in planes from Ghostlin that do not circle airports nearly as often because they do not understand the difference between encoding systems. I cannot stress enough the limited impact of this proposal and do not understand why the vote is so close.

-Alex Taurit, Foreign Relations Office and UN delegate, Ghostlin

The Empire of Japangland must disagree with this resolution on the grounds of well, we already changed half of our country's language to English, the changed former half being Japanese, hence Japangland, we see no reason to further change our language, when English is the dominate language in our region, and we see no reason to change our language when English although it is only the second largest first language in the world, Chinese claims first, it is the largest spoken second language in the world, and the largest spoken language period. Do not change the mighty language of England any further it was bad enough when the U.S. did it.

The Royal Imperial ambassador of the Empire of Japangland, William Yamamoto

Why is everyone submitting proposals that are the problems of ONE nation, not the concern of many?

One nation could easily pick an alphabet to use, my nation already uses the Cryllic alphabet.

Problem with these types of resolutions are 'Do they REALLY help anyone?'

No, they don't help everyone, so these types of proposals should not exist.

I vote AGAINST this proposal, and hope that everyone else after this post will do the same.


President Vladimir Kozentov
Leader of Chernobyl Power Plant

The most august and emminent nation of Loathingish firmly declares its support for, and vote for, the resolution. The costs of implementing such a system are negligible, while the advantages of doing so are substantial in terms of economy and safety. It has been shown (over and over and over again) that the language is not the issue (and would not matter to our nation, as we require our citizens to be multilingual anyway, in the interests of the betterment of our economy). The alphabet chosen in the resolution is the most logical choice, due to the level of recognizability of the Latin alphabet throughout the world (again, nor would it matter to our nation of learned and open-minded citizens). We speak the language of business, in whatever form that might be.

Why is everyone submitting proposals that are the problems of ONE nation, not the concern of many?

One nation could easily pick an alphabet to use, my nation already uses the Cryllic alphabet.

You didn't read the proposal, did you? It doesn't change your national alphabet.

Problem with these types of resolutions are 'Do they REALLY help anyone?'

No, they don't help everyone, so these types of proposals should not exist.

Bzzt, wrong. This resolution can help alleviate confusion between countries with different languages, as illustrated numerous times before.

Akimonad and Conservative Paradise have voted For this resolution.

~Dr. Jules Hodz
Delegate, Conservative Paradise

The Empire of Japangland must disagree with this resolution on the grounds of well, we already changed half of our country's language to English, the changed former half being Japanese, hence Japangland, we see no reason to further change our language, when English is the dominate language in our region, and we see no reason to change our language when English although it is only the second largest first language in the world, Chinese claims first, it is the largest spoken second language in the world, and the largest spoken language period. Do not change the mighty language of England any further it was bad enough when the U.S. did it.

The Royal Imperial ambassador of the Empire of Japangland, William Yamamoto
The U.S. does not exist in this NS. English is undoubtedly the most spoken language in NS. Please do not confuse NS and 'the real world'.

hello, i am very new here and i hope i am doing this the right way. please don't stab me Julius Caesar style if i do anything stupid. just pull me by the ear and drag me off stage while i kick and scream.

Believing that a standard, easily used and understood system of identifying vehicles used for international travel and transportation can promote both safety and efficient management of air, space, sea, and land travel, which in its turn will reduce bureaucracy and costs of cross-border commerce;

i believe that this is a good thing, however i do not think this passage is of justice economically with non English/Roman alphabet using and Arabic numeric using nations.

Defining "standard symbology" as a standard set of symbols to be used in constructing identification codes: the 26 letters of the English ("Roman") alphabet plus the Arabic numerals 0 through 9;


it will cost time to train the workers of nations whose language is non English nor Arabic numeric using citizens to learn them. nations whose language consists of English and use Arabic numeric system should not be given an economic advantage due to the amount of time the competing nation would have to spend on the training of their laborers both free and paid.

thus far i request for amendments to the proposed resolution that is construed fair and just for all, including the blind, the deaf, the mute and any combinations of the afore mentioned for all the nations of the world including those whose motor vehicle is driven through bipedal means and air transport consists of tame large aves with a passenger basket held in its talons.

also as a proof of the difficulty of communications the use of existing language may construe, the aforementioned passage from the resolution contains a number of spelling errors, which indicate the difficulty the use of languages would pose as a standardized methodology of communication.

unless such measures are taken to ensure equality for the global human populations, and any other species of unknowns whom are members of the UN except minerals i must reject the proposal.

This new law will infringe on my nations rights universal ID Codes is a step towards world government and the end of every sovereign nation

VOTE IT DOWN!!!!!!

We already have a system of coding nations on the Wiki. Someone must have pointed this out before. Explain to me why this is different.

As the Ambassador to the Holy Empire of Bop Ad, keepers of the Holy Books of Liff, Followers of the Hollistic God Bop Ad and heirs to the Holy Towel, I present the empire's following standpoint on the debate:

meh

Regards,

D. Gently
Ambassador
Holy Empire of Bop Ad

Okay, now I understand why the Brigadier got so angry when someone claimed "national sovereignty" as a defense. Some people drive it into the ground!

Anyway, the proposal sounds okay, but I need clarification. Are all international vehicles assigned these IDs from creation, or are they randomly assigned as soon as the vessel leaves port? Is there an international clearinghouse for such numbers, that can transmit the codes from a vessel traveling from Country Mike to Country Zulu? If not, is it up to the countries to get the codes from the vessels in-bound?

I've been following up on this, and haven't seen it brought up on the transcripts.


Respectfully,
His Royal Highness Prince Hector
Infante de Genosha
Acting UN Representative
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

The delegate and founder of AFN would like to say that this resolution is completely pointless, and that would create a larger percentage of unemployment. Though interpreters and translators make up a minute percentage of the population, they are still people and I say many languages and characters are good for the society and those who wish to further ancient learning.

Signed, The founder and delegate of the AFN, the Incorporated State of Kagetora

Okay, now I understand why the Brigadier got so angry when someone claimed "national sovereignty" as a defense. Some people drive it into the ground!

Anyway, the proposal sounds okay, but I need clarification. Are all international vehicles assigned these IDs from creation, or are they randomly assigned as soon as the vessel leaves port? Is there an international clearinghouse for such numbers, that can transmit the codes from a vessel traveling from Country Mike to Country Zulu? If not, is it up to the countries to get the codes from the vessels in-bound?

I've been following up on this, and haven't seen it brought up on the transcripts.


Respectfully,
His Royal Highness Prince Hector
Infante de Genosha
Acting UN Representative
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

First, allow us to welcome His Royal Highness to the Assembly. His approach to his duties appears to be a marked and salutary improvement over that of his predecessor in office. Now for the questions....

The manner of implementation of the code requirement is not specified in the resolution, and would be determined by each country affected. We'd imagine there will be a lot of variation. Some may determine whether a code is needed based on type of vehicle and require assignment to all vehicles of that type. Others might apply the code when a vehicle is purchased by a firm engaged in international transport. Assignment of a code when a vehicle's destination is determined is also possible for some types of vehicles, and could be used in some situations (e.g., assignment of an aircraft normally flown only domestically to an international route to replace one out-of-service).

We don't envision an international clearinghouse (at least not in a general sense), nor does the resolution require one. Nations could certainly establish them cooperatively if there is significant traffic among them. Per Article 6 of the resolution, it's the responsibility of each nation to ensure availability of the codes to organizations requiring them for effective operation.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

"After much deliberation and a fair bit of research by my wives I have cast a "FOR" vote on this resolution and will be urging my regions delegate to throw our entire vote bloc behind this."

3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use.

This provision of the resolution goes against attempts to encourage linguistic and national diversity amongst our member nations. I would vote for an amended resolution omitting this phrase, but forcing a standard alphabet which may be phonologically and lexicographically incompatible with indigenous languages onto member states is unacceptable.

The People's Republic of Acadie-Haut stands against any attempts to reduce cultural and linguistic diversity amongst the nations of our world. We encourage other states - especially those promoting a tolerant, socialist agenda - to vote against this resolution and its masked attack on indigenous culture.

The manner of implementation of the code requirement is not specified in the resolution, and would be determined by each country affected. We'd imagine there will be a lot of variation. Some may determine whether a code is needed based on type of vehicle and require assignment to all vehicles of that type. Others might apply the code when a vehicle is purchased by a firm engaged in international transport. Assignment of a code when a vehicle's destination is determined is also possible for some types of vehicles, and could be used in some situations (e.g., assignment of an aircraft normally flown only domestically to an international route to replace one out-of-service).

We don't envision an international clearinghouse (at least not in a general sense), nor does the resolution require one. Nations could certainly establish them cooperatively if there is significant traffic among them. Per Article 6 of the resolution, it's the responsibility of each nation to ensure availability of the codes to organizations requiring them for effective operation.

This brings further credence to our concerns that the purpose of having unique identifiers could be easily lost because Nation A and Nation B could assign the same code to vehicles from their countries causing major confusion when those vehicles are in transit.

Additionally, there is a clear lack of definition as to which vehicles need these international codes and when and where they need to be assigned. Because of that I see this resolution as creating even more confusion among the member nations as they strive to implement it.

A number of things would definitely need to be cleared up before we could support this resolution. I have cast our vote against it and will be doing what I can to encourage our regional delegate to do the same.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations

How do all!

My apologies for speaking on this issue, given how the mere act of rising to my feet is known to cause so many frowns and headaches...

It is enough to read the first paragraph:


Believing that a standard, easily used and understood system of identifying vehicles used for international travel and transportation can promote both safety and efficient management of ... which in its turn will reduce bureaucracy and costs of cross-border commerce;


This is rubbish, pure and simple. Belief in an unadulterated nonsense - this resolution will achieve exactly the opposite of what the author believes - namely an increase in bureaucracy and costs of cross-border commerce and these two evils of paperwork and cost are the principle wickedness of elected bodies everywhere - which the sane and those wishing to avoid bankruptcy must guard against!!

Fight this many faced evil, say NO to yet more meaningless regulation on the the most trivial of concerns...who cares about number plates?! Who gives a flying duck about ident codes and Alfa Bravo Romeo twaddle? Why must everything be standardised, normalised, made bland and conventional and global and faceless? Why must individuality be compromised again and again - where does this obsession with creating a monocultural monoworld of boredom come from? - so it is tidy for the paper pushers at the UN?

Is that the aim of and pinnacle of our existance, a world of silent and tidy nothingness - a universe of neat rows of atoms sorted by element at zero degrees Kelvin for the bureaucrats to tick off? It is a world that Putzi has no desire to see, even if a few aircraft do get muddled up every year, the pilots still have radar for ducks sake! Just because they want to transfer all the responsibility to the crap-pilot-call-centre why should that mean we have to cow-tow to the ident police that go around saying, "Coder Niner Niner! Weer haver aer noner compliancer!" to everyone??

The UN is good at stopping slavery, protecting the environment - lofty high and worthy goals that require collective responsibility and the contraint of selfishness and exploitation. But WIDGET STANDARDISATION??? There's more to life and I demand that the the world remember this and the UN acknowledge it and keep it's gigantic nose out of stifling the very diversity that makes life worth living.

Long may things remain lost in translation! Long may planes crash in the sky because the pilots couldn't be bothered to check their wing mirrors! Putzi and her Ambassador strongly advise all those who are sane to vote AGAINST, and to restrain the insane from voting...

The Ambassador of Putzi to the UN.

This brings further credence to our concerns that the purpose of having unique identifiers could be easily lost because Nation A and Nation B could assign the same code to vehicles from their countries causing major confusion when those vehicles are in transit.

Correct. And the esact same thing could happen now, without this resolution. And the vehicle operators would be trying to communicate those codes in a babble of different alphabet pronunciations and numeral names. This resolution doesn't try to eliminate all possible confusion from the international travel environment. It simply takes one step -- we believe an important one -- in that direction.

Additionally, there is a clear lack of definition as to which vehicles need these international codes and when and where they need to be assigned. Because of that I see this resolution as creating even more confusion among the member nations as they strive to implement it.

We disagree. We believe that the definition in the resolution is as clear as possible without micromanaging the implementation of the resolution in individual nations.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

The ambassador from Constantopolis would like to reiterate that this resolution is completely and utterly pointless, and while he does not hold a vote for the resolution, would like to soundly voice his opposition.

Who cares about every nation in the world using the same language? Firstly, as im sure someone has said, it violates national sovereignty. Second, how are you going to teach everyone in the trading world the same language without spending countless resources.

This resolution is completely ridiculous. I have no idea where you came up for this one.

This is rubbish, pure and simple. Belief in an unadulterated nonsense - this resolution will achieve exactly the opposite of what the author believes - namely an increase in bureaucracy and costs of cross-border commerce and these two evils of paperwork and cost are the principle wickedness of elected bodies everywhere - which the sane and those wishing to avoid bankruptcy must guard against!!

We would inquire the know what the Putzian ambassador is smoking, and where we could acquire some. How is bureacracy increased by the passage of this resolution? It is mystifying, considering that the codes are not required to be displayed on any vehicle, merely assigned for ease of communication on an international level. It would be logical that the Putzian government has its own system of identification for such things; and if it doesn't I cringe to think of how they handle international commerce.

Fight this many faced evil, say NO to yet more meaningless regulation on the the most trivial of concerns...who cares about number plates?! Who gives a flying duck about ident codes and Alfa Bravo Romeo twaddle? Why must everything be standardised, normalised, made bland and conventional and global and faceless? Why must individuality be compromised again and again - where does this obsession with creating a monocultural monoworld of boredom come from? - so it is tidy for the paper pushers at the UN?

Rhetorical abuses notwithstanding, we are more frightened by the Putzian ambassador's inability to curse. It's pronounced "fuck," thank you very much. This is clearly an issue of safety and ease of understanding, not one of cultural imperialism as you seem to think it is. The Ausserlanders made a very clear point- that the same identification in one language is completely incomprehensible in another. I am certain that the crash of a Snefaldian dirigible into a Putzian city would be undesirable, especially if the crash resulted in a lack of common understanding.

Is that the aim of and pinnacle of our existance, a world of silent and tidy nothingness - a universe of neat rows of atoms sorted by element at zero degrees Kelvin for the bureaucrats to tick off? It is a world that Putzi has no desire to see, even if a few aircraft do get muddled up every year, the pilots still have radar for ducks sake! Just because they want to transfer all the responsibility to the crap-pilot-call-centre why should that mean we have to cow-tow to the ident police that go around saying, "Coder Niner Niner! Weer haver aer noner compliancer!" to everyone??

No.

The UN is good at stopping slavery, protecting the environment - lofty high and worthy goals that require collective responsibility and the contraint of selfishness and exploitation. But WIDGET STANDARDISATION??? There's more to life and I demand that the the world remember this and the UN acknowledge it and keep it's gigantic nose out of stifling the very diversity that makes life worth living.

I am in favor of ease of understanding. Widget standardization, however, is something I would vote against in a heartbeat. Widgets should never be standardized! Only thingamajigs should be regulated- those can be dangerous when mislabeled, especially as whatchamacallits.

Long may things remain lost in translation! Long may planes crash in the sky because the pilots couldn't be bothered to check their wing mirrors! Putzi and her Ambassador strongly advise all those who are sane to vote AGAINST, and to restrain the insane from voting...

The Ambassador of Putzi to the UN.

As we say in Snefaldia, "go fuck a goat you gigantic ****."

Some of the meaning gets lost in translation.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

The ambassador from Constantopolis would like to reiterate that this resolution is completely and utterly pointless, and while he does not hold a vote for the resolution, would like to soundly voice his opposition.

Who cares about every nation in the world using the same language? Firstly, as im sure someone has said, it violates national sovereignty. Second, how are you going to teach everyone in the trading world the same language without spending countless resources.

This resolution is completely ridiculous. I have no idea where you came up for this one.

It's a relief to know that the representative of Constantopolis has no vote on this resolution, because he's obviously incapable of reading and understanding it.

There is absolutely nothing in this resolution that requires, urges, recommends, or even suggests that everyone should have the same language. There is nothing in the resolution that will affect the continued use of any language in any nation.

The resolution would establish a small set of characters that would be used to identify vehicles operating internationally, plus a standard way of communicating those characters. That's all it does. Time and again, that's been explained by us and by several other representatives. To be honest, we're getting rather tired of hearing from representatives who are either unable or unwilling to understand that.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

Again, though, Snefaldia, how are you supposed to expect people to have a common language. The whole thing is just so ridiculously made. The idea is great, but its just so poorly done. I salute that nobility though.

Second of all, insulting and swearing doesn't help your argument. You look like just as much of a fool as Putzi.

Putzi, your argument makes absolutely no sense. This resolution will neither increase bureaucracy nor will it increase cross-border commerce. You don't need to file extra papers or hire more people to manage customs unless your country is seriously threatened.

You two are both complete idiots. Learn what you're talking about and how to make a sensible argument

even so, dont we all use that anyway?

This brings further credence to our concerns that the purpose of having unique identifiers could be easily lost because Nation A and Nation B could assign the same code to vehicles from their countries causing major confusion when those vehicles are in transit.

Additionally, there is a clear lack of definition as to which vehicles need these international codes and when and where they need to be assigned. Because of that I see this resolution as creating even more confusion among the member nations as they strive to implement it.

A number of things would definitely need to be cleared up before we could support this resolution. I have cast our vote against it and will be doing what I can to encourage our regional delegate to do the same.

Alex shakes his head, and sighs before he speaks, "First off, the more digits you assign, the less likely that is. Anywhere from six to ten digit codes make that two vechiles with the exact same number for international use more an more mathmatically absurd. Believe me, I had to call Ghostlin's accountants and if you've seen the Ghostlin tax code, you'd understand why they'd be uniquely up to the challenge. I have to admit a certain confusion as to why you wouldn't identify as 'Country A vechile ID number...'. Unless Country A and Country B names sound so much alike, this should limit the confusion. As for when international codes should be used, probably over other's terrority/airspace or international waters/airspace, considering it's used for international travelling vechiles. That seems non-confusing and reasonably intuitive. We don't need to try to extend proposals, it seems to me that proposals tend to be long as it is, and apparently not enough nations read them either."

-Alex Taurit, UN delegate, Ghostlin.

hey ghostie, i agree with what u say about improbability, but does anyone actually chek the ID except for the military?

It's a relief to know that the representative of Constantopolis has no vote on this resolution, because he's obviously incapable of reading and understanding it.

There is absolutely nothing in this resolution that requires, urges, recommends, or even suggests that everyone should have the same language. There is nothing in the resolution that will affect the continued use of any language in any nation.

The resolution would establish a small set of characters that would be used to identify vehicles operating internationally, plus a standard way of communicating those characters. That's all it does. Time and again, that's been explained by us and by several other representatives. To be honest, we're getting rather tired of hearing from representatives who are either unable or unwilling to understand that.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

Hey Ausserland here are a few points you might want to consider about the resolution because you clearly are too much of an idiot to actually back a proposal that will do anything for the world. I thank God that you play computer politics instead of actual politics because minds like you lead the world into a hellhole.

1.) Its called customs. Maybe you've never heard of it. In the real world (and maybe you dont leave the house so you dont know this) people need government ID like a passport to cross over into other countries. You dont need to mark a vehicle that would obviously identify itself anyway. Thats how trade works. People come from one country to another with legal identification and trade products. You obviously just failed your economics IQ test.

2.) Hey dumb dumb do you want to take a look at the well drafted resolution you're voting on?

"1. Devise and publish a standard spelling alphabet for use by all operators of international vehicles.

2. Assist member nations, as required and requested, in installing the standard spelling alphabet in their nations. "

wait a minute? whats that? oh yeah thats right NOT ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE. Wait though, theres more:

"2. Shall include instruction in the standard spelling alphabet in the training of all operators of international vehicles.

3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use. "

Wait a second. Is that a violation of national sovereignty? hell yeah it is.



See if you use your brain instead of being a complete dunce all of the time, you would understand how real world politics works and then maybe apply that to the United Nations.

Nice try though

Again, though, Snefaldia, how are you supposed to expect people to have a common language. The whole thing is just so ridiculously made. The idea is great, but its just so poorly done. I salute that nobility though.

We don't expect people to have the same language. We expect them to learn the appropriate alphanumeric phrases necessar to conduct safe and easy international travel and commerce. I think that it is very well done.

Second of all, insulting and swearing doesn't help your argument. You look like just as much of a fool as Putzi.

Careful, sir. In Snefaldia what you have just said is cause for a ritual duel. Do not insult me again, sir.

You two are both complete idiots. Learn what you're talking about and how to make a sensible argument

The fact that you have berated me for swearing in one breath and then insulted me in the next is infinitely amusing.

I have another idiom for the situation. "When the goat speaks in tongues, it is often afflicted with rickets."

Once again, something gets lost in translation.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

Perhaps I can clear up some confusion on this issue. Many people claim this creates a language for the UN. Wrong, wrong, wrong wrong wrong!!!

Sir Bodsworth slams his fist on the podium before him.

A language has words with specific meanings! This is simply a code, a string of symbols for identification purposes! And for those of you who object to this on grounds of sovreignty or beauraucracy...

If you send a plane, drigible, spaceship, or whatever into another country, you have to be able to identify what vehicle it is, or most countries won't let you land! If you were to send an unmarked vehicle into Tanular airspace (or Ausserland airspace, or almost any other airspace of a nation with weapons, I should think) and you could not identify yourself, you have inviting a hostile reaction and possible war!

Countries where the government doesn't register vehicles don't have to worry. Corporations will license their vehicles in this manner, because otherwise they'd loose business in those nations.

Everyone understand? Of course not, but those who don't get this...you are not using that brain-thingy between your ears! This doesn't create more paperwork, it merely supplants those various systems that are already in place!! If you speak only cyrillic, then you can't identify your airplanes in countries using the latin alphabet! This code would actually open up new markets for your airlines, as the pilots would only have to remember one simple phrase, their plane's ID code. If your pilots aren't smart enough to remember a simple phrase...then you have bigger problems with your pilots.

Sir Bodsworth shakes his head at people's stupidity and leaves the podium.

Sir Bodsworth is an idiot! Of course they would have to remember other things besides their ID shakes head and mumbles and I suggest you use the brain thingy between your ears, because it would not open new markets, as all markets that would be used would have adopted a mutual language or somthing of the like

Kagetora;13077222']Sir Bodsworth is an idiot! Of course they would have to remember other things besides their ID shakes head and mumbles and I suggest you use the brain thingy between your ears, because it would not open new markets, as all markets that would be used would have adopted a mutual language or somthing of the like

Well, of course people travelling to other countries would have to remember something other than ABC 123! I'd hate having to try and find the shitter and not know how to ask where it is! It's common sense, not a burden at all!

Honestly, this refusal of some delegates to see what is plainly in front of their faces is stupefying!

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

The nation of Relikmere, after listening to some of the very recent debate would like to express that we are appalled at the actions of some Ambassadors, especially those in support of this resolution, who find it apparently appropriate means of debate and discourse to insult those who disagree with their viewpoint. To me, it is a clear indication that there are no sound responses to the concerns pointed out when someone's response is to insult those who express differing viewpoints.

How about we discuss and address this proposal, the reasons for and against its adoption, and not infer that those who disagree are unintelligent or should go perform sexual acts with animals? I guess some decorum is too much to ask...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

Please, please, ladies and gentlemen. This is a debate, not a schoolyard. Perhaps we should all try and recall that we represent our nations, and that perhaps such juvenile behavior is beneath us?

Goodness. One would think you were all children.

And back to the matter at hand. Her Divine Majesty has sent word that I'm to vote for this resolution after all.

Serifina Karin
Ambassador to the United Nations
Sacred Kingdom of Karianis

The NSUN Nunciate delegation of the Eternal Kawaii all put on safety goggles and await the oncoming defenestration.

Kagetora;13077222']Sir Bodsworth is an idiot! Of course they would have to remember other things besides their ID shakes head and mumbles and I suggest you use the brain thingy between your ears, because it would not open new markets, as all markets that would be used would have adopted a mutual language or somthing of the like

Your ignorance is palpable. 'all markets would have adopted a mutual language or something of the like'. People are objecting because they don't want to force a citizen to use another langauge, yet you've just provided the exact same evidence that I have, that such systems are already in place. This proposal simply standardizes that system in relation to identifying vehicles. If a country refuses to teach its citizens anything but cyrillic, then it has limited its markets, but this provides a stepping stone to opening up non-cyrillic countries, as it means these vehicles now have the means to enter them.

You two are both complete idiots. Learn what you're talking about and how to make a sensible argument

The ambassador from Constantopolis would like to reiterate that this resolution is completely and utterly pointless, and while he does not hold a vote for the resolution, would like to soundly voice his opposition.

Hey there Constantopolis, you of the big mouth and small number of posts - I recommend you duck off yourself. You're quite happy to call others twits but you're clearly not out of nappies yet if you don't think you have a vote - your pathetically small country is a UN member and therefore you get one richly undeserved vote...go vote, no - better still buy a sock and stick it in your keyboard.

And I am still waiting for someone to address the concerns raised in my last posting (and at a more sophisticated level than suggesting bestiality...)

The Ambassador of Putzi

Some advice: At least I don't pretend I'm a Somebody here, you see it tends to re-enforce what an utter piece of nothingness one is...

Your ignorance is palpable. 'all markets would have adopted a mutual language or something of the like'. People are objecting because they don't want to force a citizen to use another langauge, yet you've just provided the exact same evidence that I have, that such systems are already in place. This proposal simply standardizes that system in relation to identifying vehicles. If a country refuses to teach its citizens anything but cyrillic, then it has limited its markets, but this provides a stepping stone to opening up non-cyrillic countries, as it means these vehicles now have the means to enter them.

I'm not saying they were forced, but those who are voting for this are forcing the matter, I mean that they would do so for mutual benefit, not all but using military force to open up the market like Commodore Perry did to Japan

Signed, the Ambassador of the Incorporated State of Kagetora, and its colonies, Draco Orientalis and Imoogi

Hey Ausserland here are a few points you might want to consider about the resolution because you clearly are too much of an idiot to actually back a proposal that will do anything for the world. I thank God that you play computer politics instead of actual politics because minds like you lead the world into a hellhole.

1.) Its called customs. Maybe you've never heard of it. In the real world (and maybe you dont leave the house so you dont know this) people need government ID like a passport to cross over into other countries. You dont need to mark a vehicle that would obviously identify itself anyway. Thats how trade works. People come from one country to another with legal identification and trade products. You obviously just failed your economics IQ test.

2.) Hey dumb dumb do you want to take a look at the well drafted resolution you're voting on?

"1. Devise and publish a standard spelling alphabet for use by all operators of international vehicles.

2. Assist member nations, as required and requested, in installing the standard spelling alphabet in their nations. "

wait a minute? whats that? oh yeah thats right NOT ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE. Wait though, theres more:

"2. Shall include instruction in the standard spelling alphabet in the training of all operators of international vehicles.

3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use. "

Wait a second. Is that a violation of national sovereignty? hell yeah it is.



See if you use your brain instead of being a complete dunce all of the time, you would understand how real world politics works and then maybe apply that to the United Nations.

Nice try though

Howdy Constantopolis. I don't know if you're aware of a few facts, but I thought I'd make you aware of them just in case.

1. When you address someone by their nation name rather than their character's name, that generally indicates that you are speaking to the player.

2. Making personal attacks on a player is against the rules of the forum, which I suggest you read if you haven't already.

3. Real world politics do not apply overly well to the NSUN in a number of respects, so you're on pretty shaky ground to suggest that anyone apply RL politics to this virtual UN. You may want to get a little more experience here before trying to lecture others on how NSUN law works.

NationStates Forum Moderator
HotRodia

At this point I would have to say that by that time, wouldn't they recogonize each other?

Kagetora;13077362']I'm not saying they were forced, but those who are voting for this are forcing the matter, I mean that they would do so for mutual benefit, not all but using military force to open up the market like Commodore Perry did to Japan

Signed, the Ambassador of the Incorporated State of Kagetora, and its colonies, Draco Orientalis and Imoogi

I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of this resolution. This does not force anyone to learn anything more than a smiple code. If someone doesn't drive a vehicle across international boundaries, then they don't have to do anything at all. If, however, a vehicle crosses boundaries, it is likely that the driver would already be fluent in those phrases necessary to conduct his business. However, that does not mean that the customs agents and air-trafic controllers are fluent in his langauge.

For example, Country A speaks Russian and uses Cyrillic. Country B speaks English and uses the Roman alphabet.
A truck from country A carrying fresh veggies for a store in B arrives at the AB border. The customs agent stops him and says, 'Name, cargo, and destination.'
The driver has memorized the response and replies 'My name is...., I have veggies for store in city C.'
Customs agent nods and holds up a list. 'We require all vehicles to be registered before crossing, what is your truck's ID number?'
Again, the driver is prepared and lists the trucks code in Cyrillic and points at the ID on the windshield. The agent checks his list.
'Sorry, but we don't use cyrillic, turn back.'
The same would be true for a truck from B to A...this would mean that the company that owns the truck could assign an ID in the standard code (or the gov't of A could) and then they could radio it to customs, and the driver would only need to know a simple list of sounds. The same truck using the same code could go to any nearby UN nation without trouble. It eases passage between countries using different languages and dialects, it does not require the truck driver to speak anymore English than he needs to do his business.

For example, Country A speaks Russian and uses Cyrillic. Country B speaks English and uses the Roman alphabet.


Once again, wouldn't border residents be mostly bilingual?

Kagetora;13077433']Once again, wouldn't border residents be mostly bilingual?

They don't have to be...and customs agents aren't necessairily border residents. And their paperwork probably isn't compatible with symbols from the other country. I don't know what the letters of the Cyrillic alphabet are called, and I could get a job as an air-traffic controller. If an airplane didn't use an ID code that I use (in RL its the Alpha-Bravo-Charlie deal) it wouldn't matter what language the pilot spoke. If I couldn't process the plane's ID, it wouldn't land.

Kagetora;13077433']Once again, wouldn't border residents be mostly bilingual?

It's not really a question of linguistics, it's a question of identification. Sure, the border agent might be able to speak a cyrillic-based language, but it his paperwork needs to be filled out in a latin-based language, he's going to have to fulfill his obligation to his government and fill out the forms like he's supposed to.

It's a question of ease of understanding. Using Arabic numerals and Latin letters is an easy way to identify everyone. Consider the Japanese language- we've analyzed current usages, and although in the kanji system there are symbols for one, two, three, and four, it is extremely common to just use arabic numerals and write 1,2,3, and 4.

I might not be able to read Japanese, but I can read arabic numerals and understand they mean the same thing as 一、二三,四。 Similarly, a speaker of Japanese (not too many in Snefaldia, but enough to conduct research), would be equally familiar with the arabic numerals and kanji equivalents.

So really, it's neither unduly oppressive or pitifully weak. All it requires is a simple identification number that can be understood by everyone. It's not asking people to learn English or discard their cyrillic letters- it's asking people to learn and understand basic syllables and words to make travel easier.

And I really don't see a problem with that.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

Yes, but you have presented my evidence as well, they have not been forced, but have chosen so to benefit mutually and voting for is a vote for forcing

Signed, the Ambassador of the Incorporated State of Kagetora, and its colonies, Draco Orientalis and Imoogi

What ever, you will not convince me against what I say, but after next sunday, you won't hear from me for 4 weeks

Signed, the Ambassador of the Incorporated State of Kagetora, and its colonies, Draco Orientalis and Imoogi

3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use.



Point 3 seems like a prelude to underhanded overreaching of the UN's powers.



5. May deny access to their lands, territorial waters, and air space to any vehicle which does not bear an identification code in conformance with this resolution or whose operator fails or refuses to use the standard spelling alphabet.



Point 5 clearly illustrates in the proposal itself how that this act would actually harm trade and not aid it.

Must member nations cut all ties with allies who are not members of the UN simply for the ability of vehicle identification?

Point 3 seems like a prelude to underhanded overreaching of the UN's powers.



Point 5 clearly illustrates in the proposal itself how that this act would actually harm trade and not aid it.

Must member nations cut all ties with allies who are not members of the UN simply for the ability of vehicle identification?

Point 3 simply asks that you consider using it for vehicle IDs in your own country...it does not require anything, and many of those promoting this bill would fight against any bill that tried to do so, myself included.

Point 5 says that you MAY, not that you MUST. Many nations already deny vehicles without proper identification. If a vehicle comes to our country carrying cargo and does not identify itself appropriately, we advise them to leave or we will use force. If they persist in entering our territory, we use military force. This bill does not harm movement into countries, as you already have to identify yourself, this gives a universal system to do so.

In the interest of national security and continuing safe relations with all international neighbors, the CrimsonTyde nation elects to support the proposed measure.

Fellow Countries & Regions,

Let me just have a few words about this issue:
This is only a slick and underhanded way of micro-managing countries and regions. Not only does this infringe on each countries' ability to solve the issue on their own, but it forces them to take a one-world approach to a regional problem. This is hardly the answer!

Now most of us voted NO on the UNID ID Act, yet this would contradict that decision in a very similiar way! The UN's focus should be on humanitarian aid, current regional conflicts and social crisis'. But to solve some universal problem with an answer such as this is just another guise to destroy our liberties! This has got to end! There are far greater problems now than our vehicles not having a "national barcode!" After all, they still have a VIN #. So in this respect they can be monitored at a NATIONAL LEVEL. The "world government" should never dictate to it's countries what they should have do to solve the identification crisis at a national government level..

As well written as this Act is, and as good-natured as it appears, I believe we all should analyze this issue further, even coming up with alternate solutions, before jumping to the conclusion of a UN-controlled tracking system! Let each country have the freedom it has so bravely earned!

- Ambassador to the UN, Joseph H-----
Allied States of Cemetary Wastelands
Bubbles End Region

The Empire of Japangland Sovereign Province of the region of Greater Japangland stands firm on it's position in this matter as it will hurt trade with our colonies, namely The Colony of the State of Korea, The Colony of the State of Canada, and The Colony of the State of Taiwan, who have all applied to be members of the UN however, if any one of them is rejected as a member of the UN The Empire of Japanglnd will resign as a member of the UN and will dedicate all forces in Greater Japangland to its destruction. All of you are supporrting this resolution be warned, do you have any allies who are not members of the UN if so you must oppose this resolution it can only cause you harm!

Highly disturbed though respectfully yours, The Royal Imperial UN Ambassador to The Empire of Japangland, Jane Yamamoto.

... our colonies, namely The Colony of the State of Korea, The Colony of the State of Canada, and The Colony of the State of Taiwan, who have all applied to be members of the UN ...

Please be aware that you may only have one UN nation per player, not the four you desire. I would strongly recommend that you reject the invitations you may have requested for your colony nations. The alternative is that we would remove all your nations from the UN, permanently.

Act while it's still your choice, please.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

Isnt that the purpose of the UN? To help manage nations effectively?

[The NSUN deputy Nuncia sighs, listening to Joseph H's argument. She steps up to the podium, wishing she hadn't packed the Nuncia off to the Strangers' bar.]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii (mtCObp)

Oh really, this is quite silly, people. The esteemed representative from Cemetery Wastelands is presenting a purely strawman argument that has nothing at all to do with what this resolution is about. Our nation is as concerned with national sovereignity as the next, but even we can see that national control over international trade will not be harmed by it.

Comparing it to the proposed UNID Act is quite unfair, almost insulting. That proposed act was poorly worded and a direct challenge to national sovereignity, imposing an onerous burden on nations and overruling their established visa systems. This act is nowhere comparable to it.

Finally, the esteemed representitive appears to have a poor grasp of what this act actually does. By claiming that the problems the act addresses can be solved at the national level, he misses the whole point of the act, which is to help streamline international trade.

The esteemed representative would be well-advised to actually read the act before demanding other nations "analyze it further."

Putzi and her Ambassador strongly advise all those who are sane to vote AGAINST, and to restrain the insane from voting...

The Ambassador of Putzi to the UN.

*Bob walks over to the Putziese ambassador*

"So you suggest that we sane people restrain the insane ones from voting? Here, let me help you slip into something less comfortable."

*Bob pulls a straitjacket out of his diplomatic bag*

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

*Walks up to podium looking annoyed before speaking*
My esteemed fellow UN members, before this act is approved, think of it this way, trade has been going on smoothely for years. *audience mumbles* Therefore, why must we alter it? By now, all nations that have been trading would have followed the resolution to their standards, and the UN is trying to abolish their systems that have been used for years.

Another point I would like to point out would be that the code would not benefit countries that would like to deny access to their countries as the resolution clearly states that "countries may deny vehicles without the code" which implies that if a coded vehicle enters their territory, they must allow them to continue, which is just inviting war.

The Incorporated State of Kagetora
Delegate of the Allied Federation of Nippon

*Bob walks over to the Putziese ambassador*

"So you suggest that we sane people restrain the insane ones from voting? Here, let me help you slip into something less comfortable."

*Bob pulls a straitjacket out of his diplomatic bag*

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Let me help you with your "politics" *pushes security button*
There, no more riffraff, now where were we? *security stands behind ambassador, looking threatining*

The Incorporated State of Kagetora
The Allied Federation of Nippon

The Ambassador from Kagetora is adding meaning into a document that isn't there. This in no way requires you to admit vehicles using such a code. It does not force you to accept them, you may still turn them away if you wish. This merely standarizes the numerous systems of ID so that a plane from Tanular can visit multiple nations and use one ID, instead of having one in English, Cyrillic, Chinese, Braille, Barcode, and FigNewton.

Do not try to skew the wording to fit a seperate argument. What it says is what it says, it makes no implications that you have to admit anyone. If you wish to be isolated from the world, you may still do so.

Kagetora;13078001']My esteemed fellow UN members, before this act is approved, think of it this way, trade has been going on smoothely for years. *audience mumbles* Therefore, why must we alter it? By now, all nations that have been trading would have followed the resolution to their standards, and the UN is trying to abolish their systems that have been used for years.

This is parently incorrect. This does not abolish any system, but merely urges[/i[ the implementation of a standardized means of identification. Furthermore, the statement that "trade has been going on smoothely[sic] for years" is unfounded and a matter of opinion.

Another point I would like to point out would be that the code would not benefit countries that would like to deny access to their countries as the resolution clearly states that "countries may deny vehicles without the code" which implies that if a coded vehicle enters their territory, they must allow them to continue, which is just inviting war.

The Incorporated State of Kagetora
Delegate of the Allied Federation of Nippon

No, it doesn't say that at all. It says that vehicles lacking the code [i]may be denied access. It doesn't say A. That they must be denied, or B. that nations with the code must be let into the country. I challenge you to cite the section of the resolution that states this.

The Kagetoran ambassador is now just making things up.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

We would like to thank the more vociferous opponents of this resolution. We had previously been planning to abstain, since the matter seemed to be of relatively little import in the grand scheme of things. We were prepared for the usual rash of ambassadors and delegations turning up to protest in these halls without having properly read or understood that which they were debating; such is, regrettably, normal.

What we were unprepared for was the level of determined, willful idiocy that has been applied against this proposal. Ambassadors have argued increasingly untenable positions by means of ignoring the evidence presented to them, have delved far past the normal levels of incivility into outright insult (and despite claims to the contrary, we note that the record shows only one supporter of the proposal responding in kind), and have generally behaved in a manner more appropriate to sufferers from paranoia than accredited representatives of nations. Some have even gone so far as to question the ability of the delegation of Ausserland -- Ausserland, of all peoples! -- to comprehend international law. We would laugh, were it not that these people are amongst those attempting to direct the future of the world.

Given that the refusal to accept education when it slaps one in the face is one of the few things that the people of Gobbannium find truly difficult to forgive, and given the lucid arguments presented by its proponents, we now proudly vote FOR this resolution.

We would like to thank the more vociferous opponents of this resolution. We had previously been planning to abstain, since the matter seemed to be of relatively little import in the grand scheme of things. We were prepared for the usual rash of ambassadors and delegations turning up to protest in these halls without having properly read or understood that which they were debating; such is, regrettably, normal.

What we were unprepared for was the level of determined, willful idiocy that has been applied against this proposal. Ambassadors have argued increasingly untenable positions by means of ignoring the evidence presented to them, have delved far past the normal levels of incivility into outright insult (and despite claims to the contrary, we note that the record shows only one supporter of the proposal responding in kind), and have generally behaved in a manner more appropriate to sufferers from paranoia than accredited representatives of nations. Some have even gone so far as to question the ability of the delegation of Ausserland -- Ausserland, of all peoples! -- to comprehend international law. We would laugh, were it not that these people are amongst those attempting to direct the future of the world.

Given that the refusal to accept education when it slaps one in the face is one of the few things that the people of Gobbannium find truly difficult to forgive, and given the lucid arguments presented by its proponents, we now proudly vote FOR this resolution.

Sir Bodsworth wipes a tear from his eyes.

"It's good to know that there are sane people in this distinguished body, and that our words have not fallen on deaf ears! We welcome your vote and your support...but most importantly, we welcome your reasonable and friendly attitude.

I find it funny that people arguing against, motivate others to vote FOR.
I also find it funny that people, who have had been in diplomatic roles far longer than I've been alive, cannot act with civility.
(Along with the fact that ruder names have been thrown out within the last 12 hours, yet there's only been one "outcry" for civility and proper diplomacy....yet..-Sighs-)

I digress.

Given that statistically it would been a difficult chance for two vessels to have the same alphanumeric code at the same time...(while that number is weighed by how many inter-region/transnational/international/interplanetary/intergalactic/trans-universal/etc etc shipping occurs within a given day...) it is feasible that this resolution should work. I cast my votes (as sovereign nation and region vice-delegate) FOR this resolution.

On another note, I'd like to thank the Ausserlander delegation for welcoming me here. I would like to point out that I am only temporary, serving at my father's whim. I am not permanently here, unless the Parliament convenes to vote me here.



-- Hector, Infante de Genosha

On another note, I'd like to thank the Ausserlander delegation for welcoming me here. I would like to point out that I am only temporary, serving at my father's whim. I am not permanently here, unless the Parliament convenes to vote me here.

-- Hector, Infante de Genosha


Prime Minister von Aschenbach slips Prince Hector a note.

PERSONAL FOR: HRH Prince Hector

Just thought I'd let you know I'll be giving Lady Frances a call tomorrow asking her to see about making your temporary stay a long one. Sorry if this messes with your plans, but the idea of your predecessor coming back gives me hives.

/s/ Aschenbach

Id codes on wechiles - yes!
But - lost our cultural personality bu using only latin alphabet - NEVER!
So I vote AGAINST

Yours

First Secretary of Great Socialistic Council of The United Socialist States of Punckeds
Gustav Havrov

"May deny access to their lands, territorial waters, and air space to any vehicle which does not bear an identification code in conformance with this resolution or whose operator fails or refuses to use the standard spelling alphabet."

And how does denying access to trade equal a 'significant' increase in free trade exactly? This resolution is flawed at best, fraudulent at worst. Worse it will restrict trade by UN nations, leaving non-UN members to significantly increase their free trade.

The Bruce,

Acting as part of Elections Wysteria, who are currently in control of the Wysterian Delegateship.

Another resolution for impressing a standard for all nations is before us. This time we have a resolution that tries to unify the world under the English alphabet and the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. We are amazed this resolution even made it past the proposal stage. So many nations will look on this resolution as a security risk to their own nation to have international vehicles easily identified and tracked as they travel abroad. Others will just take offense to the standardized alphabet and numeral system for the "codes" used on vehicles.

We are opposed to this as our native Hawaiian is based on a 13 letter alphabet system, which is efficient to talk with our brethren, where twice the letters in a foreign alphabet, as a demarkation for the world, is offensive to us. That our citizens would be monitored in a different fashion than the previous resolution, as they travel abroad, allowing for different forms of privacy invasions is also against the rules we have set down in our nation.

For these reasons and the international protections we wish to uphold as a UN member we are voting against this resolution.

HawaiianFreedom - Delegate to the HawaiianFreedom nation

What part of may don't you people understand? It does not say must, it says may.

Again, though, Snefaldia, how are you supposed to expect people to have a common language. The whole thing is just so ridiculously made. The idea is great, but its just so poorly done. I salute that nobility though.

Second of all, insulting and swearing doesn't help your argument. You look like just as much of a fool as Putzi.

Putzi, your argument makes absolutely no sense. This resolution will neither increase bureaucracy nor will it increase cross-border commerce. You don't need to file extra papers or hire more people to manage customs unless your country is seriously threatened.

You two are both complete idiots. Learn what you're talking about and how to make a sensible argument

Recommend NSUN censure for the "diplomat" from Constantopolis [OOC: were it possible in this forum, I know it isn't.] If he cannot make his argument without casting dubious and unfounded aspersions upon his fellow delegates, then he needs to find another line of work. Make your case against the RESOLUTION, sir, NOT the author or those supporting him.

Hey Ausserland here are a few points you might want to consider about the resolution because you clearly are too much of an idiot to actually back a proposal that will do anything for the world. I thank God that you play computer politics instead of actual politics because minds like you lead the world into a hellhole.

1.) Its called customs. Maybe you've never heard of it. In the real world (and maybe you dont leave the house so you dont know this) people need government ID like a passport to cross over into other countries. You dont need to mark a vehicle that would obviously identify itself anyway. Thats how trade works. People come from one country to another with legal identification and trade products. You obviously just failed your economics IQ test.

2.) Hey dumb dumb do you want to take a look at the well drafted resolution you're voting on?

"1. Devise and publish a standard spelling alphabet for use by all operators of international vehicles.

2. Assist member nations, as required and requested, in installing the standard spelling alphabet in their nations. "

wait a minute? whats that? oh yeah thats right NOT ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE. Wait though, theres more:

"2. Shall include instruction in the standard spelling alphabet in the training of all operators of international vehicles.

3. Are urged to adopt the standard spelling alphabet for domestic use. "

Wait a second. Is that a violation of national sovereignty? hell yeah it is.

See if you use your brain instead of being a complete dunce all of the time, you would understand how real world politics works and then maybe apply that to the United Nations.

Nice try though

LOOK, SIR. NO NEW LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE LEARNED! Just a simple, 26-unit code. That code doesn't even need to be put on any of the affected CRAFT! I simply cannot understand why you are going so far off the deep end on this issue. There is no infringement of national sovereignty, there is no "loss of cultural identity", there is merely a way to avoid confusion and stave off potential accidents or other problems caused by not having internationally-recognized idents.

Benji gavels his desk, sending shards of walnut shell flying. He retreats to his box and dials up Lester Flynn.

Les? Yeah, it's Benji. Look, do we still have an APS unit here in the NSUN? Good. Discover where this Constantopolis fellow's office is and activate the APS. Level One, "newbie with no sense of respect or honor". Code authorization: whiskey tango foxtrot, over. Thanks.

Benji hangs up and sits back in his Eames chair (true black) and thanks the Intangible Progress for re-authorizing the Advanced Prank Squad.

Kagetora;13077222']Sir Bodsworth is an idiot! Of course they would have to remember other things besides their ID shakes head and mumbles and I suggest you use the brain thingy between your ears, because it would not open new markets, as all markets that would be used would have adopted a mutual language or somthing of the like

For. The. Nth. Time.

NO NEW LANGUAGE IS REQUIRED! Are you telling me that your own military does NOT use coded communications over things like radios and other comms devices? Did THAT code require you radio personnel learn a new language? OF COURSE NOT!

Sir, you are being deliberately obtuse and willfully ignorant despite the best intentions of the majority of this deliberative body. If you can make an argument that has NOT yet been completely shredded, then by all means DO SO. If you cannot, then I suggest that you withdraw from the floor, as your petty insults and condescending nature DO NOT mesh with your woeful lack of experience here. We have warned you, the Moderators have warned you. The next step is a Gnomic Intervention, and believe me, sonny, you DON'T want THAT.

If you won't apologize, then I suggest at the very least that you be silent and be SEATED, sir.

Fellow Countries & Regions,

Let me just have a few words about this issue:
This is only a slick and underhanded way of micro-managing countries and regions. Not only does this infringe on each countries' ability to solve the issue on their own, but it forces them to take a one-world approach to a regional problem. This is hardly the answer!

Now most of us voted NO on the UNID ID Act, yet this would contradict that decision in a very similiar way! The UN's focus should be on humanitarian aid, current regional conflicts and social crisis'. But to solve some universal problem with an answer such as this is just another guise to destroy our liberties! This has got to end! There are far greater problems now than our vehicles not having a "national barcode!" After all, they still have a VIN #. So in this respect they can be monitored at a NATIONAL LEVEL. The "world government" should never dictate to it's countries what they should have do to solve the identification crisis at a national government level..

As well written as this Act is, and as good-natured as it appears, I believe we all should analyze this issue further, even coming up with alternate solutions, before jumping to the conclusion of a UN-controlled tracking system! Let each country have the freedom it has so bravely earned!

- Ambassador to the UN, Joseph H-----
Allied States of Cemetary Wastelands
Bubbles End Region

Ambassador H, please recognize that there is NOTHING in the resolution at hand that requires you "barcode" anything. Please read the entirety of the resolution and then look upon your post as a visceral response based solely on emotion rather than the solid prose of the legislation at hand. This is NOT a tracking system -- it's not even an RFID. It's 26 letters and their respective sounds designed to let international traffic control know which blip is which. It DOESN'T need to be ON the vehicle, and it DOESN'T require the learning of a new language.

If you can read what you're arguing in the resolution, I would ask that you please point out WHERE in the text your fears are made into law. You can't, but I invite you to try.

The Empire of Japangland Sovereign Province of the region of Greater Japangland stands firm on it's position in this matter as it will hurt trade with our colonies, namely The Colony of the State of Korea, The Colony of the State of Canada, and The Colony of the State of Taiwan, who have all applied to be members of the UN however, if any one of them is rejected as a member of the UN The Empire of Japanglnd will resign as a member of the UN and will dedicate all forces in Greater Japangland to its destruction. All of you are supporrting this resolution be warned, do you have any allies who are not members of the UN if so you must oppose this resolution it can only cause you harm!

Highly disturbed though respectfully yours, The Royal Imperial UN Ambassador to The Empire of Japangland, Jane Yamamoto.

Ambassador Yamamoto, please show me how, using the text from the resolution, any of your fears are written into this law. I implore you to cease arguing on the basis of sowing panic and return to reasoned debate.

Id codes on wechiles - yes!
But - lost our cultural personality bu using only latin alphabet - NEVER!
So I vote AGAINST

Yours

First Secretary of Great Socialistic Council of The United Socialist States of Punckeds
Gustav Havrov

Ambassador Havrov. Your magnificent and culturally vital alphabet can still be the only one present on your glorious vehicles and crafts. The resolution at hand needs only that a code be used to identify your craft to international traffic controllers and terminals. They don't need to go on your craft's skin or indeed show up anywhere but 26 letters and their mortphemes over the radio or similar comms device.

Rest assured your cultural heritage is safe.

"May deny access to their lands, territorial waters, and air space to any vehicle which does not bear an identification code in conformance with this resolution or whose operator fails or refuses to use the standard spelling alphabet."

And how does denying access to trade equal a 'significant' increase in free trade exactly? This resolution is flawed at best, fraudulent at worst. Worse it will restrict trade by UN nations, leaving non-UN members to significantly increase their free trade.

The Bruce,

Acting as part of Elections Wysteria, who are currently in control of the Wysterian Delegateship.

May. Not must. MAY. That means it's any nation's CHOICE to do so without inviting international censure.

May. Not must. MAY. That means it's any nation's CHOICE to do so without inviting international censure.


I agree to a certain extent. The number/alphabet has it's flaws to those that do not understand the Roman alphabet. It may happen that it would restrict trade more than anything, and make these vehicles easy targets in war zones. What may be needed is an international symbol that a good majority understand. For example: the Red Cross. A good majority knows that simple red cross means medical help.

Symbols would have more power. Like when I say "ball" what do you think of? The word or a small sphere that you used to play with as a child. Whatever, different meanings but still the same image comes to mind. We associate that word with a symbol in our mind. Symbol has meaning. As for air traffic or similar, something like INTER: 481, something, INTER-as in international, and their flight number.

I am against this vote because there is more risk involved with this venture and more cause for international dispute rather than trade.

Kagetora;13078013']Let me help you with your "politics" *pushes security button*
There, no more riffraff, now where were we? *security stands behind ambassador, looking threatining*

The Incorporated State of Kagetora
The Allied Federation of Nippon

*Bob pulls out his cell phone and dials a number*

"Hi, there. Could I speak to the Maintence of Order Department? Thank you. Hi, this is Bob Flibble down in the GA. I'm being threatened by some unknown security guards, could you send a Squad here to protect me. Thanks a lot."

*Bob hangs up the phone.*

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

I agree to a certain extent. The number/alphabet has it's flaws to those that do not understand the Roman alphabet. It may happen that it would restrict trade more than anything, and make these vehicles easy targets in war zones. What may be needed is an international symbol that a good majority understand. For example: the Red Cross. A good majority knows that simple red cross means medical help.

You are correct, but the use of symbols can't achieve the same as an alphanumeric system. The entire point is to provide identification codes for individual vehicles, so that nations may use them if they desire. I definitely don't see any cause to believe this would restrict trade; in fact I'm not even clear on where that assumption is coming from. The codes aren't required for trade at all- merely recommended.

Symbols would have more power. Like when I say "ball" what do you think of? The word or a small sphere that you used to play with as a child. Whatever, different meanings but still the same image comes to mind. We associate that word with a symbol in our mind. Symbol has meaning. As for air traffic or similar, something like INTER: 481, something, INTER-as in international, and their flight number.

I am against this vote because there is more risk involved with this venture and more cause for international dispute rather than trade.

But consider- many people would hear the word "ball" and not know what it means. If they saw a picture of a circle, they would have differing interpretations of what that circle meant. Symbology is only useful when the intepretations are universal; something that isn't true.

Alphanumeric codes are devoid of symbolic meaning. They are logical and ordered, they fulfill a duty. Symbols could offend certain groups- alphanumeric codes don't have any meaning outside of their use as identification markers.

I fail to see any risk, either in trade or in application.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

With the lunacy I see here, I can understand my predecessor's actions. Some people here do not read, or only see what they want to see. Others, refer to name calling. Still others play favorites, and choose to respond to only one issue requiring censure while ignoring others? And then, there is this "violation of national sovereignty" argument being thrown around? Listen. I'm a sovereign prince, and I don't feel this resolution violating my personal sovereignty, much less my national one!

Many of you need a lesson in manners. Others, need a lesson in debate.

Oh, Lord Prime Minister von Aschenbach, I've sent your note off to the Baroness Meridian, but I don't think you're going to like the reply you'll get back. The Brigadier is well liked, and nothing shown in this assembly so far, was an example that his attitude was out of the ordinary.

Respectfully,
His Royal Highness Prince Hector
Infante de Genosha
Acting UN Representative
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

This merely standarizes the numerous systems of ID so that a plane from Tanular can visit multiple nations and use one ID, instead of having one in English, Cyrillic, Chinese, Braille, Barcode, and FigNewton.

The fact of the matter is that international vehicles can already do as much in cooperative countries. The private sector has already developed efficient identification systems by which to track commercial international vehicles. As far as the vehicles of private citizens, I am displeased that we are trying to enforce a supranational identification and tracking system (as I can see no other purpose to this ID code). The UN has no need to track the movements of individuals, nor has precedent shown any inclination inherent in the UN for doing as much.

If this identification system is merely meant to ease in incoming traffic control, then it is superfluous. Tracking and order systems of that sort can (and in Twafflonia do) assign temporary individual tracking IDs to inbound vehicles upon detection, without any need for international bureaucratic red tape.

This proposal is unnecessary, and will only serve to create more government overhead with little real benefit to international travel (unless you believe such a Big Brother system is truly a benefit rather than an ominous step toward imposed self-espionage).

If this identification system is merely meant to ease in incoming traffic control, then it is superfluous. Tracking and order systems of that sort can (and in Twafflonia do) assign temporary individual tracking IDs to inbound vehicles upon detection, without any need for international bureaucratic red tape.

Perhaps they do, but they do not assign such numbers the minute a vehicle is spotted. First, they have to identify the incoming object. If a vehicle fails to properly identify itself because it doesn't provide a known identification, there will by many problems. Ships can't dock in the harbor if they don't tell the harbormaster what ship it is...planes don't enter airports unless the airport confirms they are who they say they are, and etc. A standard system of ID codes for international vehicles can cut down on confusion and make it easier to identify incoming vessels when used appropriately. If you just let any plane land, there are bound to be many, many problems that arise.

I am against this vote because there is more risk involved with this venture and more cause for international dispute rather than trade.

As we have seen here in the UN while discussing this resolution, I think your assessment that this is likely to be more cause for dispute than helping trade has hit the nail on the head.

Right now each nation determines how it wants to handle vehicles from other nations wishing to cross its borders based on what works best for their country and most efficiently for the trade relations they have and/or want to have. We have already seen stark disagreements over the very core of this proposed system and I highly doubt it will end just because this resolution is passed by this body. The disagreements and issues we see will continue because they are not successfully answered by the resolution itself. This is likely to disrupt the trade routes and systems already in place while all of this is ironed out (if it ever really gets to that point) thus hindering trade and having a negative economic impact on countries that rely on trade for their existence.

Don't misconstrue this, I don't think it will cause a halt or end to trade or the end of the world or anything like that, but with so much disagreement surrounding this issue, it seems clear that it will not be a smooth transition, by any accord, and will have an impact on a system that is already working for those who want to make it work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

Right now each nation determines how it wants to handle vehicles from other nations wishing to cross its borders based on what works best for their country and most efficiently for the trade relations they have and/or want to have.

And they will continue to do exactly that. The resolution says absolutely nothing about how nations have to handle vehicular access to their territories. It says nothing about national decisions in this regard except for making it clear that nations can deny access to vehicles if the system is not used -- which they could do anyway. It simply puts into place a tool that will be very valuable to them in doing so efficiently and safely.

This is likely to disrupt the trade routes and systems already in place while all of this is ironed out (if it ever really gets to that point) thus hindering trade and having a negative economic impact on countries that rely on trade for their existence.

Disrupt trade routes? How? Nations assign the codes to vehicles that operate internationally. The operators and controllers of these vehicles learn the spelling alphabet. Trade continues to march on, only with a bit less confusion and a bit more efficiency.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

And they will continue to do exactly that. The resolution says absolutely nothing about how nations have to handle vehicular access to their territories. It says nothing about national decisions in this regard except for making it clear that nations can deny access to vehicles if the system is not used -- which they could do anyway. It simply puts into place a tool that will be very valuable to them in doing so efficiently and safely.


I'm sorry, but I believe it does more than create a tool. It puts a burden on government agencies to create and keep track of these identification codes, and a burden on private citizens to register their vehicles before they can leave their country. (Not my main argument against, but this resolution--if it passes--could be used by governments as an additional legal avenue by which to prevent citizens from leaving their state.)

Ambassador Biddulph Strathfield
Twafflonia

Perhaps they do, but they do not assign such numbers the minute a vehicle is spotted. First, they have to identify the incoming object. If a vehicle fails to properly identify itself because it doesn't provide a known identification, there will by many problems.

The burden of identification should be on those wishing to enter the country. If they fail to meet the procedural expectations of the country to which they are traveling, there is no need or justification for letting them in. That said, if a vehicle fails to properly identify itself, it is that vehicle's fault and that vehicle's problem. It can simply be turned away.

It seems that your justification for this resolution is that some vehicle operators are not familiar enough with the country to which they are traveling to know how to identify themselves. If that is the case, then they should definitely not be traveling to that country in the first place, as these ignorant persons are likely to break plenty of other laws and procedural expectations during their stay.

As has been noted before, there is no international coordination regarding the assignment of the ID codes, so they really have no meaning (and in fact harbor significant risk) as far as traffic control goes; vehicles from different countries might have the same ID codes, or perhaps ID code systems with established meanings might be befuddled by foreign ID meanings (say for example that a certain ID prefix in one country signifies that the vehicle is carrying hazardous materials). In terms of efficiency, it is better to conform to known standards than to impose something new over a working system.

I fail to see any risk, either in trade or in application.

There is certainly a risk. If those involved wanted to boycott a certain country, all they would have to do is look up the international code to see where it came from. Though I wouldn't really have to say it, "terrorism" does also strike a chord. I didn't want to bring it up. But there is a corrupt sector that has to be identified and aware that we know of them and are watching them. (What better way, think about it.)

I can see where this system may seem the logical thing to do. It is in our nature. "It is a requirement of the human brain to put order in the universe." (Francois Jacob). Though this is something that might help in some ways, I see more harm than good. It's another way to get individuals to pay more taxes to implement this, as well as a lengthy law system that will slow trade down.

I think this is just a way to put more control over other nations and it's usefullness will be short-lived.

ooc: Ok...I didn't quite expect this much response in 3 days...
There's 24hrs to go basically and a difference of about 50 votes. If it doesn't pass now I might try again in a couple of months with it clearly stating that no language is imposed and the removal of exactly what symbols will be used as it just seems to be causing confusion.

Btw, whoever was saying the proposal was full of spelling errors...I'M ENGLISH! I SPELL THINGS DIFFERENTLY TO YOU! THANK YOU FOR BEING SO IGNORANT TO THINK YOUR COUNTRY IS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING IN EVERYONE ELSE'S EYES. Thank you. (and aluminium has two 'i's for igloo.)

(lacking sleep...me? Pissed off? Never.)

ic: Gohn Jawey walks up to the podium again with a clear plastic panel in case of rotten vegetables. The projector switches on and suddenly red letters 5ft high appear behind him.

The Spelling Alphabet is a set of words. It is intended for the use of the code only. The code need not be displayed. There is NO standardised language in this proposal. No-one needs to learn English. "May" is a month in the gregorian calendar. It is also a word meaning 'to give permission'. This proposal mandates the codes' existence and a spelling alphabet's existence.

Well I think that answered several questions from ambassadors. I would like to thank yet again my supporters' contributions to the debate. I would like to remind the Assembly that I am wearing a new suit and that there are religious representatives in this room - please keep all fighting and swearing to a minimum.

The Free Trade issue has been brought up again. There are two reasons it is in this category.
One, the UN Gnomes' categories are limited and although I could have tried Security it would have taken a lot of redrafting to make it fit. By that time I would have wondered what Gnome-soup tasted like.
Two, it means fewer cargoes will be delayed or confiscated at check-points. Passengers will feel safer that their plane will not collide due to a mix-up or run out of fuel as they circle the airport waiting for confirmation and more will travel boosting that industry. By making the alphabet universal to UN countries, markets will open to those who were afraid to export to nations with other alphabets for the above reasons.

And if you wish to you can go further than the proposal...think what would happen if ATC confirmed the arrival or pending arrival of planes - people could track if their goods had arrived or if they were delayed! Business would love it.

Relikmere's ambassador seemed to think trade will decrease. If you and a neighbour have already negotiated a system then you're welcome to continue it. This is in addition, if there are problems.

Someone imagined confusion between codes. Perhaps I should draw his/her attention to the meaning of unique in the UN library's Big Dic.
adjective
1. Being the only one of its kind: the unique existing example of Donne's handwriting.
2. Without an equal or equivalent; unparalleled.
(ooc: You can either assume that there is a database that cross-checks for duplication, that nations add their own identification suffix/prefix to the code. i.e. GB/UK for me in RL or GAFT for my character nation, the border controls ask 'nation' and then 'code', or that by Gnomic-power it just is like many aspects of the game.)

Mister Cyclonese Ambassador, people have managed to place embargoes on trade since time immemoriam. Simply asking which country the cargo is from has the same effect. This is not about order, it is about protecting goods (including people) from destruction, delay or confiscation.

If there's anything I missed in my quick reading of my transcripts then please bring my attention to it, I once again apologise for my absence, but they needed me for a vital vote back home.

Not my main argument against, but this resolution--if it passes--could be used by governments as an additional legal avenue by which to prevent citizens from leaving their state.

Nonsense. No government with a collective IQ of more than 12 would need this to prevent their citizens from leaving their territory. The representative is really reaching beyond reasonable argument in his eagerness to see the resolution defeated.


As has been noted before, there is no international coordination regarding the assignment of the ID codes, so they really have no meaning (and in fact harbor significant risk) as far as traffic control goes; vehicles from different countries might have the same ID codes, or perhaps ID code systems with established meanings might be befuddled by foreign ID meanings (say for example that a certain ID prefix in one country signifies that the vehicle is carrying hazardous materials). In terms of efficiency, it is better to conform to known standards than to impose something new over a working system.

And this has been answered before. Countries can assign the same vehicle codes now, and probably do. This resolution doesn't change that at all. If the representative wants to establish some international bureaucracy to maintain a register of codes or some standard system for identifing vehicle content, he's welcome to write a proposal to do so. This resolution doesn't try to solve all the world's problems. It simply tries to move a step towards eliminating confusion.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

What I would like to say on this matter would be that if it passes, the UN would not be improving trade, but hindering it. Trade would be forced to be opened on many countries.

You say urging, I hear forcing. Commodore Perry "urged" Japan to open up trade. The US is "urging" Iraq to adopt its political system. The Crusaders "urged" the Muslims to abandon Jereuselum.

Signed, The Incorporated State of Kagetora
UN Delegate of The Allied Federation of Nippon

[/QUOTE]And this has been answered before. Countries can assign the same vehicle codes now, and probably do. This resolution doesn't change that at all. If the representative wants to establish some international bureaucracy to maintain a register of codes or some standard system for identifing vehicle content, he's welcome to write a proposal to do so. This resolution doesn't try to solve all the world's problems. It simply tries to move a step towards eliminating confusion.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations[/QUOTE]

The above statement is self-contradictory. "Countries can assign the same vehicle codes now, and probably do. This resloution doesnt change that all...It simply tries to move a step towards eliminating confusion."

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't get it.

Kagetora;13079967']What I would like to say on this matter would be that if it passes, the UN would not be improving trade, but hindering it. Trade would be forced to be opened on many countries.

You say urging, I hear forcing. Commodore Perry "urged" Japan to open up trade. The US is "urging" Iraq to adopt its political system. The Crusaders "urged" the Muslims to abandon Jereuselum.

Signed, The Incorporated State of Kagetora
UN Delegate of The Allied Federation of Nippon

You seem intent on arguing against this resolution. Nothing wrong with that. Now try arguing from a basis of fact. Show us exactly where in this resolution it would force one single nation to open itself to anyone or anything. You can't, because it doesn't.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

Kagetora;13079967']What I would like to say on this matter would be that if it passes, the UN would not be improving trade, but hindering it. Trade would be forced to be opened on many countries.

You say urging, I hear forcing. Commodore Perry "urged" Japan to open up trade. The US is "urging" Iraq to adopt its political system. The Crusaders "urged" the Muslims to abandon Jereuselum.

Signed, The Incorporated State of Kagetora
UN Delegate of The Allied Federation of Nippon

Once more, the Kagetorans completely make things up. At this point, there's no more to be done to explain your willfull ignorance on the subject.

I can say only this- くそくらえ。

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

With voting down to the wire, and only a set limit of time; I'm officially vowing that if this proposals passes through the UN, I will resign from the UN. This is a breach to civil rights, and to the freedoms of individual countries. English should not be national if it is not wanted in some countries. A phonetic alphabet is ridiculous.

I, Speaking for my main nation of Javvadelend, regard this proposal as too much to enforce, and too debatable to be passed. I hope you all agree with me, and what people are left you haven't, please vote AGAINST.

And this has been answered before. Countries can assign the same vehicle codes now, and probably do. This resolution doesn't change that at all. If the representative wants to establish some international bureaucracy to maintain a register of codes or some standard system for identifing vehicle content, he's welcome to write a proposal to do so. This resolution doesn't try to solve all the world's problems. It simply tries to move a step towards eliminating confusion.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations[/QUOTE]

The above statement is self-contradictory. "Countries can assign the same vehicle codes now, and probably do. This resloution doesnt change that all...It simply tries to move a step towards eliminating confusion."

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

We doubt you're an idiot, but you don't get it. That may be our fault. Let us try to explain, using an example from the mythical land of RL:

You're an air traffic controller. You're trying to keep track of and issue instructions to a couple dozen flights. And yes, some of them do have the same IDs. For simplicity's sake, let's say they are all shown on the controller's screen as 126.

Now the pilot from the UK identifies his flight as "wun-too-six". The Thai pilot identifies as "neung-song-hok". The fellow from Hungary says he's "egy-ketto-hat". And the woman flying the Turkish plane checks in as "bir-iki-alti". Not only is the controller faced with the duplicate IDs, he or she has to try to remember how each of those pilots says the numbers -- that is, if he can figure out which was which in the first place.

That's the element of confusion that the resolution aims to eliminate. It would establish a common set of symbols used for vehicle IDs and a set of easily learned, easily pronounced, and readily understood ways of communicating those symbols verbally.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

You're an air traffic controller. You're trying to keep track of and issue instructions to a couple dozen flights. And yes, some of them do have the same IDs. For simplicity's sake, let's say they are all shown on the controller's screen as 126.

Now the pilot from the UK identifies his flight as "wun-too-six". The Thai pilot identifies as "neung-song-hok". The fellow from Hungary says he's "egy-ketto-hat". And the woman flying the Turkish plane checks in as "bir-iki-alti". Not only is the controller faced with the duplicate IDs, he or she has to try to remember how each of those pilots says the numbers -- that is, if he can figure out which was which in the first place.

That's the element of confusion that the resolution aims to eliminate. It would establish a common set of symbols used for vehicle IDs and a set of easily learned, easily pronounced, and readily understood ways of communicating those symbols verbally.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

I maintain that the best way to clear up such confusion would be to have the national traffic controller simply refuse entry to whomever refuses to follow the nation's individual set of codes and procedures. If these are commercial airlines, they will already have such identification systems set up. If they are personal airplanes owned and operated by private citizens, then these citizens should take it upon themselves to know how to properly communicate and follow procedure according to the dictates of the nation whose airspace they enter.

Nonsense. No government with a collective IQ of more than 12 would need this to prevent their citizens from leaving their territory.

I agree. That is why I said it is an additional legal avenue by which to prevent citizens from leaving their state. As for my "eagerness to see the resolution defeated," this is really one of the less harmful proposals brought before this body; I would regret its passing (and am voting against it) but I don't pretend that this is really as dangerous or economically damaging as other (more vociferous) opponents claim. I merely maintain that the "problem" that this proposal addresses is non-existent, and the costs and effort it would require are not worthwhile.

Countries can assign the same vehicle codes now, and probably do.

Which is why, as I suggested, it works just as well to allow each nation to assign individual temporary ID codes upon contact with an international vehicle. Unless we're using this ID system to track vehicles internationally, there is no need for global ID codes when local ID codes suffice in traffic control.

Ambassador Biddulph Strathfield
Twafflonia

Alex sighs, "Can the delegates voting for this answer me a few questions? How hard, in all the government documents our nations have to write each an every day, to write down a 26-letter, 10-number code, of which the majority of you use the numbers EVERYDAY unless you count in base-8, binary or hexadecimal. How hard would it be to document it in this fashion? Does anyone have an alphabet with easier or more recongizable identifers? How is adding one more code out of the millions militaries use threatening your 'national soverignity?' The only error that exists in this rather SANE proposal is it's impact: it is rather limited in impact, so 'signfanct' is probably an overstatement. Please bring sanity back to the United Nations and vote for a proposal that does not that much and for the safety the world, besides carting half of you off in straightjackets, we should be doing anyway. Ghostlin is frankly sick of hearing insults thrown by countries who either didn't read the prospal scope or assumes that because it introduces a code."

-Alex Taurit, Ghostlin UN delegate

I maintain that the best way to clear up such confusion would be to have the national traffic controller simply refuse entry to whomever refuses to follow the nation's individual set of codes and procedures. If these are commercial airlines, they will already have such identification systems set up. If they are personal airplanes owned and operated by private citizens, then these citizens should take it upon themselves to know how to properly communicate and follow procedure according to the dictates of the nation whose airspace they enter.

And we maintain that setting up an international system which would preclude the need for such inefficiency, complexity, and probable confusion is far better.

I agree. That is why I said it is an additional legal avenue by which to prevent citizens from leaving their state. As for my "eagerness to see the resolution defeated," this is really one of the less harmful proposals brought before this body; I would regret its passing (and am voting against it) but I don't pretend that this is really as dangerous or economically damaging as other (more vociferous) opponents claim. I merely maintain that the "problem" that this proposal addresses is non-existent, and the costs and effort it would require are not worthwhile.

But if you agree that the argument was spurious, why did you bother to raise it.

Which is why, as I suggested, it works just as well to allow each nation to assign individual temporary ID codes upon contact with an international vehicle. Unless we're using this ID system to track vehicles internationally, there is no need for global ID codes when local ID codes suffice in traffic control.

And a pilot on a route touching the air space of six different nations would perhaps have to deal with six different ID codes -- communicated to him in six different modes of identifying letters and numbers? Sheer nonsense.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

And a pilot on a route touching the air space of six different nations would perhaps have to deal with six different ID codes -- communicated to him in six different modes of identifying letters and numbers? Sheer nonsense.

Setting aside the fact that nations and international businesses and NGOs concerned with travel efficiency can work out systems of international trade and identification without the imposition of this proposal, does the Prime Minister suggest that the proposal's purpose is to make flight operations more convenient for pilots? Is mandated convenience really something the UN needs to be worrying about?

This proposal requires altogether too much effort and funding for such ridiculously minimal 'benefits.'

Respectfully,
Ambassador Biddulph Strathfield
Twafflonia

But if you agree that the argument was spurious, why did you bother to raise it.


I merely recognized, in a parenthetical statement complete with a clarifying note stating that it was not my main argument against the proposal, that the proposal creates another avenue for tyranny. It's still not a good enough reason for voting against the proposal, just something I noticed and mentioned as an aside.

Setting aside the fact that nations and international businesses and NGOs concerned with travel efficiency can work out systems of international trade and identification without the imposition of this proposal, does the Prime Minister suggest that the proposal's purpose is to make flight operations more convenient for pilots? Is mandated convenience really something the UN needs to be worrying about?

This proposal requires altogether too much effort and funding for such ridiculously minimal 'benefits.'

Respectfully,
Ambassador Biddulph Strathfield
Twafflonia

Not at all. The term "convenience" is yours, not ours. But a basic understanding of performance technology would allow you to realize that easier tasks have a far higher probability of proper performance than difficult ones. Your proposed fragmentary system would introduce or perpetuate useless, inefficient, and dangerous complexity to an already demanding set of tasks.

And we're happy you set aside that "fact" about everyone going around working out their own systems. Are you seriously suggesting that such a fragmented endeavor among more than 20,000 nations would be more efficient than the implementation of this proposal? Are you trying to tell us that a multiplicity of systems is somehow preferable to a common standard?

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

does anyone feel this is destroying the people's nationality, language, and culture by adapting to these new terms.

i feel it is a proposal to far in the future for us at this time and feel that i must motion it aside, for now. To much funding will have to make way to change every aspect of every nation will change, i feel it is to drastic for the people of this world.
-chancellor Gilchrist
Holy Empire of Britnia

does anyone feel this is destroying the people's nationality, language, and culture by adapting to these new terms.

-chancellor Gilchrist
Holy Empire of Britnia

No, we don't. This has absolutely nothing to do with nationality, language, or culture. The resolution merely establishes a technique that would facilitate communication of vehicle identities. And it would be used only in the case of vehicles traveling internationally, and only by the people operating or controlling those vehicles. Your people would still have the same nationality, they'd be speaking the same language, and their culture wouldn't be affected at all.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

We are sorry for any inconveince it seems nations are playing sneaking and are saying anything to get what they want across, To let you know as long as it dosent affect the people's nationality then so be it.
once again sorry for the false information that i may have given.
-Chancellor Gilchrist
HM The chancellor of Britnia

Kagetora;13079967']What I would like to say on this matter would be that if it passes, the UN would not be improving trade, but hindering it. Trade would be forced to be opened on many countries.

You say urging, I hear forcing. Commodore Perry "urged" Japan to open up trade. The US is "urging" Iraq to adopt its political system. The Crusaders "urged" the Muslims to abandon Jereuselum.

Signed, The Incorporated State of Kagetora
UN Delegate of The Allied Federation of Nippon
What is this 'Japan' and 'US' and 'Iraq' you talk about? This is NS, not 'the real world'.

The resolution merely establishes a technique that would facilitate communication of vehicle identities. And it would be used only in the case of vehicles traveling internationally, and only by the people operating or controlling those vehicles. Ambassador Thwerdock, you continue to state this as if it lowers the number of vehicles that would have to be so identified. However, for nations that allow freedom of travel, would it not require every personal vehicle to be identified using this code since they are, by definition, allowed to cross international borders?

Related to that, because the resolution does not require unique numbers, would it not then literally be possible to assign the same UN-prescribed number to all vehicles?

Leetha Talone,
UN Ambassador

Ambassador Thwerdock, you continue to state this as if it lowers the number of vehicles that would have to be so identified. However, for nations that allow freedom of travel, would it not require every personal vehicle to be identified using this code since they are, by definition, allowed to cross international borders?

I would wager it could be.

Related to that, because the resolution does not require unique numbers, would it not then literally be possible to assign the same UN-prescribed number to all vehicles?

Leetha Talone,
UN Ambassador[/QUOTE]

Yes, but would reasonable nations do that? And, if the Twafflonians are correct in saying that individual nations can do this just fine; wouldn't it then be smart to make sure that there were no redundancies in the identification process?

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

I would wager it could be. Could be what?
Yes, but would reasonable nations do that? Certainly. If a nation does not at this time assign identification of any kind to vehicles and are now required to do so, publishing a single number throughout the nation for use would be a very reasonable (and certainly less expensive) action. [/QUOTE]

--L.T.

Ambassador H, please recognize that there is NOTHING in the resolution at hand that requires you "barcode" anything. Please read the entirety of the resolution and then look upon your post as a visceral response based solely on emotion rather than the solid prose of the legislation at hand. This is NOT a tracking system -- it's not even an RFID. It's 26 letters and their respective sounds designed to let international traffic control know which blip is which. It DOESN'T need to be ON the vehicle, and it DOESN'T require the learning of a new language.

If you can read what you're arguing in the resolution, I would ask that you please point out WHERE in the text your fears are made into law. You can't, but I invite you to try.



Ambassador Havrov. Your magnificent and culturally vital alphabet can still be the only one present on your glorious vehicles and crafts. The resolution at hand needs only that a code be used to identify your craft to international traffic controllers and terminals. They don't need to go on your craft's skin or indeed show up anywhere but 26 letters and their mortphemes over the radio or similar comms device.

Rest assured your cultural heritage is safe.


RE: Spelling Alphabet and ID Codes
TO: The Nation of Intangelon
FROM: Allied States of Cemetary Wastelands

BODY: To you Nation of Intangelon, and the rest of our esteemed nations and regions, I owe a debt of apology. Though I read this Act in it's entirety initially, I did not use the discerning wisdom or thoroughness as I should have to analyze the true intent. Because of my lack of judgement I have caused myself, and the reputation of my country, to be called into question on this particular issue. Indeed, much of my stance against this Act has only been based on assumptions along with being caught up in certain phrases, without regard to the complete context and actual language of the Act.

I hereby apoligize to the NSUN and vow to examine each issue with a greater regard to the actual proposal and it's meaning. I have hereby withdrawn my vote against, and cast my vote of confidence in, this noble Act. To The Nation of Intangelon, thank you for your Country's representation, as well as a clear definition and explanation of such important Acts as this.

Best Regards To All,

Joseph L. H-----
Ambassador To The NSUN
The Allied States of Cemetary Wastelands

Related to that, because the resolution does not require unique numbers, would it not then literally be possible to assign the same UN-prescribed number to all vehicles?

If only it were that easy. From the proposal:

Defining, for the purposes of this resolution, "identification code" as a unique set of symbols (letters and numbers) used to identify specific vehicles;

and

Member Nations:

1. Shall assign an identification code, using the standard symbology, to all international vehicles registered within their nations.

...Hmm. Actually, I guess you're right. The wording should say identification codes rather than code. As it is, it requires a single code for all international vehicles. Heh.

Ambassador Thwerdock, you continue to state this as if it lowers the number of vehicles that would have to be so identified. However, for nations that allow freedom of travel, would it not require every personal vehicle to be identified using this code since they are, by definition, allowed to cross international borders?

Related to that, because the resolution does not require unique numbers, would it not then literally be possible to assign the same UN-prescribed number to all vehicles?

Leetha Talone,
UN Ambassador

The representative should try reading the resolution again. The word "allowed" does not appear in the definition of "international vehicles".

And yes, it would be literally possible to assign the same number to all vehicles within a nation. We did not try to micromanage how the ID codes would be assigned. We assumed that, if nations were to be required to implement the resolution's requirements, they'd do so in something approaching a rational manner.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

We thank Ambassador Thwerdock for the answer to our second question.

The representative should try reading the resolution again. The word "allowed" does not appear in the definition of "international vehicles".Indeed it doesn't, nor did I assume it did. However, since it would require accurate divination to determine which land vehicles are "likely" to be used for international travel, would not the rational nation be forced into a corner, as it were, to designate all such vehicles as "likely"?

--L.T.

We thank Ambassador Thwerdock for the answer to our second question.

Indeed it doesn't, nor did I assume it did. However, since it would require accurate divination to determine which land vehicles are "likely" to be used for international travel, would not the rational nation be forced into a corner, as it were, to designate all such vehicles as "likely"?

--L.T.

It would take no divination. It would only take common sense. And no, a rational nation would certainly not be forced into any such corner.

I have a fleet of taxicabs that services my capital city, far from any national border. I have shuttle buses from my airports to my hotels. I have emergency service helicopters that deliver patients to my hospitals. I have fleets of trucks that deliver farm products to markets in the nation. I have thousands of vehicles owned by private citizens who have never traveled outside my nation and have expressed no desire to do so. No rational nation would consider any of these subject to the provisions of the resolution. A rational nation would be able to determine what's likely and unlikely without resort to divination or unnecessary and inappropriate generalization.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

If the representative wants to establish some international bureaucracy to maintain a register of codes or some standard system for identifing vehicle content, he's welcome to write a proposal to do so. This resolution doesn't try to solve all the world's problems. It simply tries to move a step towards eliminating confusion.

Would not such a proposal probably be declared an attempt to amend this one, if this one gets passed, and therefore illegal?
Would not including the requirement for a unique national identifer (whether or not this would be on a register kept by some UN agency) at the start of vehicle ID codes in this proposal therefore have been a better alternative to that approach?

(ooc: You can either assume that there is a database that cross-checks for duplication, that nations add their own identification suffix/prefix to the code. i.e. GB/UK for me in RL or GAFT for my character nation, the border controls ask 'nation' and then 'code', or that by Gnomic-power it just is like many aspects of the game.)

To quote an official representative of Ausserland, from at least one previous debate in this chamber: "The Law means what the Law says".
As you did not specify either existence of such a database or a legal requirement for the use of national identification suffixes/prefixes in this text, there is no basis for assuming that they would come into existence if this proposal were to pass. Admittedly the use of national identifiers would be a matter of common sense, but considering what some of the UN's member-nations are like -- at least going by their representatives' behaviour here -- I am far less confident than you seem to be that common sense would be followed...

It would take no divination. It would only take common sense. And no, a rational nation would certainly not be forced into any such corner.

I have a fleet of taxicabs that services my capital city, far from any national border. I have shuttle buses from my airports to my hotels. I have emergency service helicopters that deliver patients to my hospitals. I have fleets of trucks that deliver farm products to markets in the nation. I have thousands of vehicles owned by private citizens who have never traveled outside my nation and have expressed no desire to do so. No rational nation would consider any of these subject to the provisions of the resolution. A rational nation would be able to determine what's likely and unlikely without resort to divination or unnecessary and inappropriate generalization.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

The delegate from Ghostlin stands up, and says calmly, "I must respectfully disagree with the delegate from Ausserland. The majority of the vechiles, shuttle buses, trucks, private cars...all of them already have encoding such as mentioned in the proposal for national use. Ladies and gentlemen of the UN, I present to you, the license plate!

Do not be fooled by it's commonplace appearance. This is acutally a code of sorts registered to a driver to idenify who owns the vechile. In fact, many of these are issued every day without an argument of civil rights or discrimination concern, much less personal determinism, which one might call...personal soverignity. In fact nations CHARGE their citizens to have it! The only thing the bill does is make it determinable and understandable by all nations of the UN, which the majority of license plates do anyway. And you don't have to pay for it, the UN will help you.

So I, and Ghostlin posit the question to you: Why are there so many votes to repeal something that is nothing but akin to a licence code for international vechiles? Why would you be threatened by something you ask your own citizens to do everyday? The other option is simple: you can choose not to send your vechiles over your borders into other countries, much akin to people not choosing to own personal vechiles if they don't like liscening concerns.

Let me end with a question that sums this up rather neatly: if you were sued by a private citizen for abusing their civil rights and determinism by having a liscense plate on their car, would you take the case seriously, or would you laugh them out of court?

If the answer is the second, then you have no right or reason to vote against this proposal."
-Alex Taurit, UN delegate, Ghostlin

Ambassador Strathfield, you seem hung up about the fact you would rather a temporary code. Look at it this possible means of implementation. A vehicle, let's say a car, is not considered an international vehicle in Twafflonia. Twafflonia does not give it a code. One car driver decides to travel across a Twafflonian border - it becomes an international vehicle by default. It can apply to the Twafflonian government or relevant ministry for a code. Now this could be a more economic solution if you prefer it.

ooc: On the multiple code issue perhaps the gnomic-assumption goes a bit too far. But be practical here. If an air traffic controller is faced with two codes that look the same what is he going to do? Sit there um-ing to himself? If he's got any common sense he's going to either ask the country the plane is from or the airline.

Personally I'm used to construing statutes and cases as wide as possible. UK judges are pretty liberal with their powers and EU judges will make sure everything is construed in a sensible manner.

Voting is not looking good. 3923 For, 4254 Against. That's a good 300 votes. And I wouldn't be sure who to target with telegramming as the bigger delegates tend to represent democratic voting.
I bet 75% of the no vote think it's mandating English. And ow, I just dropped a bottle of tequila on my toe....

Exactly, folks. Under a syllabic system, this wouldn't have happened. Let's see what it would have looked like (using a fictional syllabic system):

Aircraft ABE9Z4 approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control, this is Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Zulu Four, requesting permission to land"

"Acknowledged Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Zulu Four, please proceed to runway two"

Aircraft AVE9C4 also approaches Logopia city international airport...

"Control this is Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Charlie Four, requesting permission to land"

"Acknowledged Alfa Bravo Echo Niner Charlie Four, please proceed to runway three"

See the difference? No explosion!
And that concludes today's demonstration.

Wasn't this why Marconi invented the dididit-dAA-dAA-didit system for ?
A simple system that reduced communication errors, could be transmitted over ultra-narrow bandwith radio (power requirements: almost nothing, antenna direction : unspecified ... ) , yet faultlessly received by a really simple bi-wire strung to the ceiling (inside, no storm damages) of the airports "control room" ?
It's pronouncable ( dididit DAA DAA didit ) , it's simple (much simpler than the proposed 36-symbols system) , can be electronially produced AND processed y those who want to do so, and ... it maps to the roots of NationStates itself: BITS .

So why try th cumbersome national system of a few", and not use the blood and veins of ationStates itself ?
Why did they propose a "letter and digit" sytem ?
Oh, nd for an example of that in the parallel universe "RL" : ASI backfired for international understandings, backward compatibility issues hampered newer systems so: GO FOR SIMPLE from the first day, please.
If the only way to have "simple" here is to vote NO, embassador Hissing will lodge a Nay for Renssignol.
To change a resolution it needs to be repealed first, but we could live with this if the system" can be voted now and "the implementation" pushed into an international working group.
That group can then decide by internal majority of interested participants.

If the answer is the second, then you have no right or reason to vote against this proposal."
-Alex Taurit, UN delegate, Ghostlin

We would contend that we have every such right and reason. What we require of our citizens as a matter of national security and what we are mandated to do internationally have some distinctions.

In reading (and re-reading) this proposal, we do not see it as a more effective means of doing what we already do. The only way to make it effective would be to have unique national identifiers, which are not required by the proposal or to hand over all of our registrations to organizations outside our borders prior to them having a reason to possess said information--something we are not prepared to do.

While I am not saying that our reading is necessarily correct as the authors maintain different intentions by indicating that they feel those against the resolution have not read or understood their proposal, we need to remember that we each read these proposals for what they are, how they affect our own nation and the other member nations, and then seek clarification if needed. Obviously by the current vote tallies, after doing so, the majority have come up with an opinion that differs from what the esteemed authors claim they intend of the proposal. And knowing that this will be implemented as worded and not as intended, we are glad such a conclusion has been drawn at this point in the debate.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

My esteemed ladies and gentlemen, the vast majority of objections to this resolution are simply laughable. Let me go through them, in case some of the stubborn leaders opposed to this resolution do not yet comprehend:

1: Some nations have been spreading the falsehood that this resolution requires the use of the English language. This resolution does nothing of the sort! It uses the Latin/Roman/English alphabet and Arabic numerals for an international code.

A code is not the same as a language at all, and there is no expectation of requiring the populations of the various nations of the world to learn any new language. People of various countries would not know or care about the code unless they were involved in international business in the first place, and thus they would have experience in learning new languages or codes for different countries. All this does is streamline that process.

The use of the term "English" makes sense because it is essentially synonymous with "Roman" and "Latin" when referring to alphabets. Those who would quibble about this language seem to have an axe to grind and ignore the meaning behind the law.

To say that some countries don't use the English/Roman/Latin alphabet is irrelevant. That alphabet is the most prevalent in the NS world, and the simple fact that we are all here debating this resolution using that alphabet shows that it's a non-issue.

2: This resolution doesn't even make a country USE this code! All it does is say: "Here is an international code. If a country wants to, it can use it. If a vehicle from Country A enters Country B, Country B has the right to refuse entry if Country A's vehicle isn't internationally coded." If anything, that's just a restatement of national sovereignty in this area!


One thing I would mention, to the creator of this resolution: if this resolution does not pass, I urge you to immediately begin work on a revised edition, one which explicitly points out the flaws in thinking that this somehow imposes on countries or that it's cultural authoritarianism. I fear that too many people have gotten a skewed idea of what this resolution actually does, and far too few nations participate in this international forum.

M2: This resolution doesn't even make a country USE this code! All it does is say: "Here is an international code. If a country wants to, it can use it. If a vehicle from Country A enters Country B, Country B has the right to refuse entry if Country A's vehicle isn't internationally coded." If anything, that's just a restatement of national sovereignty in this area!
Actually, they still have the right to refuse entry even if the vehicle is internationally coded.

UN word picture on sled law fail 4,893 votes to 3,978. This BAD!!! UN people not know how to read. Think UN law do things it not do.

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

The Nation of New Sequoyah wishes to express its deepest regrets at the defeat of this act. May the Delegates of this august assembly show better discretion in the future, and vote for worthy legislation such as this.

Lieut. Gen. John Brown Gordon (Ret.)
UN Ambassador for New Sequoyah

We're naturally disappointed that the resolution failed of passage. We believe that the United Nations has passed up the opportunity to take a very reasonable, practical, and worthwhile step to eliminate one area of confusion in international commerce. But that's the way the proverbial cookie proverbially crumbles.

We'd like to thank those members of the Assembly who stepped in to do yeoman service in answering objections raised in this forum. There were several times when we came to the chamber, ready to answer objections raised, only to find that some other member had done the job as well or better than we could do. We won't mention names. You know who you are, and we'd end up forgetting to mention someone. But know that dwarves have very long memories when it comes to those who have done them a service. Thanks also to those delegates who approved the proposal and those nations that voted in favor of the resolution.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

The Nation of New Sequoyah wishes to express its deepest regrets at the defeat of this act. May the Delegates of this august assembly show better discretion in the future, and vote for worthy legislation such as this.

Lieut. Gen. John Brown Gordon (Ret.)
UN Ambassador for New Sequoyah

I agree, Gen. Gordon

-- Hector, Infante de Genosha

It would appear to me that many of the arguments against this proposal arose from numerous incorrect interpretations, and I would like to agree with the representative from New Sequoyah in hoping that better discretion will be shown in the future.

I offer my regrets that this resolution did not pass.

Good day.

Eros Tatriel
UN Representative for Subistratica

Heh I get to use one of my own cards.
http://test256.free.fr/UN%20Cards/hate.png

Thank you for all those who helped to defend the proposal and those who had sensible arguments against...drowned out by the crowds of countries reading concepts that are not there.
The proposal will not be torn up and given to Glog to start fires but will go onto the shelf for a while before returning with a new 'English-less' look. It has taught me never to understimate the stubborness of those determined to disbelieve what lies before their eyes.
Any advice will be welcomed, these transcripts will remain available for the future draft.

In the meantime my office has asked me to write a journal and start drafting the next proposal...

(i.e. I have an essay soon to write and another proposal idea so this will be delayed a while.)

My defenders should come and enjoy this cask of rum I defeated in the Stranger's Bar.

Jawey staggers away from the podium to head straight to the Bar to drown his sorrows.

2: This resolution doesn't even make a country USE this code! All it does is say: "Here is an international code. If a country wants to, it can use it. If a vehicle from Country A enters Country B, Country B has the right to refuse entry if Country A's vehicle isn't internationally coded." If anything, that's just a restatement of national sovereignty in this area!

It would, however, have required nations to assign an identification code to all international vehicles within their nation.

*Strathfield stands up and heads to the doors*

Looks like we get off without any defenestrations today...
To the bar!

How do all,

I would like to thank all those who worked tirelessly (and much harder than our delegation did) against this dreadful piece of unnecessary widget standardisation, who have spared every nation from yet more paperwork, expense and worst of all a bland sameness everywhere!

Long may people get confused when crossing borders by incomprehensible instructions, long may container ships dance a complicated two-step in narrow harbour entrances and long may aircraft passengers get a real thrill of terror out of the window on occasion, to break the dull throb of deep vein thrombosis. In short:

LONG MAY WE BE UNITED BY OUR RICH DIVERSITY

However those peddling this resolution are clearly determined to bring it back after a facelift to 'correct' for the English-dominance that is allegedly the only thing wrong with an otherwise perfect piece of legislation...how wrong they are and how VIGILANT we must be for when the zombie appears!

The Ambassador of Putzi

How do all,

I would like to thank all those who worked tirelessly (and much harder than our delegation did) against this dreadful piece of unnecessary widget standardisation, who have spared every nation from yet more paperwork, expense and worst of all a bland sameness everywhere!

Long may people get confused when crossing borders by incomprehensible instructions, long may container ships dance a complicated two-step in narrow harbour entrances and long may aircraft passengers get a real thrill of terror out of the window on occasion, to break the dull throb of deep vein thrombosis. In short:

LONG MAY WE BE UNITED BY OUR RICH DIVERSITY

However those peddling this resolution are clearly determined to bring it back after a facelift to 'correct' for the English-dominance that is allegedly the only thing wrong with an otherwise perfect piece of legislation...how wrong they are and how VIGILANT we must be for when the zombie appears!

The Ambassador of Putzi

Don't make me come over there. I have duct tape, and I'm not afraid to use it.

~Dr. Jules Hodz

Long may people get confused when crossing borders by incomprehensible instructions, long may container ships dance a complicated two-step in narrow harbour entrances and long may aircraft passengers get a real thrill of terror out of the window on occasion, to break the dull throb of deep vein thrombosis. In short:

LONG MAY WE BE UNITED BY OUR RICH DIVERSITY

It amazes me that you would equate inefficiency and wasteful incompetence with "diversity". Being diverse has nothing to do with being idiotic, and that's exactly what the defeat of this resolution was.

However those peddling this resolution are clearly determined to bring it back after a facelift to 'correct' for the English-dominance that is allegedly the only thing wrong with an otherwise perfect piece of legislation...how wrong they are and how VIGILANT we must be for when the zombie appears!

The only zombies here are the ones who insist on badmouthing and voting against legislation they have plainly not read, or at least not comprehended. And unlike the zombies of horror movie lore who eat other peoples' brains, those zombies plainly avoid anything to do with brains whatsoever.

I'm off to the Strangers' Bar to alleviate my disgust with some fine alcohol.

- Ikir Askanabath, Acting Ambassador

Don't make me come over there. I have duct tape, and I'm not afraid to use it.

~Dr. Jules Hodz

Gives Dr. Hodz the keys to the trebuchet.

Make use of it.

-- Hector, Infante de Genosha

Oh, Lord Prime Minister von Aschenbach, I've sent your note off to the Baroness Meridian, but I don't think you're going to like the reply you'll get back. The Brigadier is well liked, and nothing shown in this assembly so far, was an example that his attitude was out of the ordinary.[Leering at the handsome young prince:]

I have to agree with the prime minister, Your Highness. You've certainly made your nation's delegation a lot more ... attractive, and I hope you'll stay. Perchance would you be looking for a ... "business partner" while you're here? I know that being away from home can make a man awfully lonely ... *growl!*

On a decidedly less fun note, my government is most displeased at the outcome of this vote. While being forced to agree with a Genoshan sends shivers down my spine, we too are not amused by all the -- how did the Snefaldians put it? -- "willful ignorance" expressed by many in this Assembly. This article was not defeated on its merits; it was killed by irrational prejudices, uninformed assumptions, and determined refusal to accept or comprehend the explanations so patiently supplied by its sponsors.

We officially thumb our noses in contempt at the opposition. Screw you guys; I'm going home! ... Or the Strangers' Bar ... yeah, Strangers' Bar sounds good.

Cdr. Jenny Chiang
Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations

How do all,

I would like to thank all those who worked tirelessly (and much harder than our delegation did) against this dreadful piece of unnecessary widget standardisation, who have spared every nation from yet more paperwork, expense and worst of all a bland sameness everywhere!

Long may people get confused when crossing borders by incomprehensible instructions, long may container ships dance a complicated two-step in narrow harbour entrances and long may aircraft passengers get a real thrill of terror out of the window on occasion, to break the dull throb of deep vein thrombosis. In short:

LONG MAY WE BE UNITED BY OUR RICH DIVERSITY

However those peddling this resolution are clearly determined to bring it back after a facelift to 'correct' for the English-dominance that is allegedly the only thing wrong with an otherwise perfect piece of legislation...how wrong they are and how VIGILANT we must be for when the zombie appears!

The Ambassador of Putzi

Alex looks at the Ambassador with disgust, "Now that the debate is over, I will just say this for the sake of diplomacy. While in Ghostlin this would never happen, sir, there are countries even the UN where I could probably strangle you, throw you off the roof of this fine building and leave you for the crows and I would get a reward for disposing of one more idiot in the world." Alex sighs. "Sadly, I live in what they call a civilized country."

That said, the delegate from Ghostlin slinks off.

as a concerned leader I would like to know how this did not pass? identification would have been so easy to establish and regulate, and personally voting against it is just wishing an influx of (potentially illegal and unsafe) vehicular imports. I am disheartened that this did not pass.

President GodLi
Lord Protector Of GodLiDonia

"The heads of the Draenarian States wish me to communicate their severe disappointment that this resolution failed. They have authorised me in advance, an unprecedented act, to support any future incarnation of this proposal.

Now, I do believe some drinks are in order, by way of commiseration..."

Walton Abbot
UN Representative for the Draenarian States

Jawey returns momentarily, his barrel of rum under one arm. He walks up to the Putzi ambassador and delivers an upper-cut to the jaw, hearing a satisfactory crack.
Without even flinching Jawey rolls out the Assembly again singing...
(ooc:To YMCA)

Ambassador, there's no need to get knocked down.
I said, Ambassador, pick yourself off the ground.
I said, Ambassador, 'cause you're in the UN
There's no need to be unhappy.

Ambassador, there's a place you can go.
I said, Ambassador, when you're feeling quite low.
You can drink there, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time.

It's fun to vote on the S-A-I-D.
Then have a drink in the S-B-A-R.
They have everything that you care to enjoy,
You can get drunk with all the boys...

How do all,

I would like to thank all those who worked tirelessly (and much harder than our delegation did) against this dreadful piece of unnecessary widget standardisation, who have spared every nation from yet more paperwork, expense and worst of all a bland sameness everywhere!

Long may people get confused when crossing borders by incomprehensible instructions, long may container ships dance a complicated two-step in narrow harbour entrances and long may aircraft passengers get a real thrill of terror out of the window on occasion, to break the dull throb of deep vein thrombosis. In short:

LONG MAY WE BE UNITED BY OUR RICH DIVERSITY

However those peddling this resolution are clearly determined to bring it back after a facelift to 'correct' for the English-dominance that is allegedly the only thing wrong with an otherwise perfect piece of legislation...how wrong they are and how VIGILANT we must be for when the zombie appears!

The Ambassador of Putzi

The only thing worse than a good resolution oging down to a defeat aided and abetted by willful ignorance and unreasonable interpretations is the unveiled glating of the chief proponent of said tactics.

Intangible Whiskey all 'round.

RE: Spelling Alphabet and ID Codes
TO: The Nation of Intangelon
FROM: Allied States of Cemetary Wastelands

BODY: To you Nation of Intangelon, and the rest of our esteemed nations and regions, I owe a debt of apology. Though I read this Act in it's entirety initially, I did not use the discerning wisdom or thoroughness as I should have to analyze the true intent. Because of my lack of judgement I have caused myself, and the reputation of my country, to be called into question on this particular issue. Indeed, much of my stance against this Act has only been based on assumptions along with being caught up in certain phrases, without regard to the complete context and actual language of the Act.

I hereby apoligize to the NSUN and vow to examine each issue with a greater regard to the actual proposal and it's meaning. I have hereby withdrawn my vote against, and cast my vote of confidence in, this noble Act. To The Nation of Intangelon, thank you for your Country's representation, as well as a clear definition and explanation of such important Acts as this.

Best Regards To All,

Joseph L. H-----
Ambassador To The NSUN
The Allied States of Cemetary Wastelands

Ambassador H-----

Thank you for your earnest and sincere reflection on your position regarding the UN Spelling and ID Act. Your words were both eloquent and humble, and those qualitites, most notably the latter, are exceedingly rare in NSUN discourse (see the posts by the Putzi Ambassador as an example). It is with great pride and pleasure that I present you with the Intangible Medal of Contrition, awarded to those brave enough to admite publicly when they've erred.

The medal comes with a $300,000i cash award and the title of Honorary Memeber of Progress (our legislative body). May you continue to exhibit such refreshing candor and reflectiveness in your dealings with the NSUN.

Jubal Harshaw, Magister Intangelon/UN Delegate
Benji Royce, Intangible Minister UN
Sephora Mavro, Intangible Regional Delegate

Having seen the Gaffa Territorial Representative floor the Putzian Representative, and followed it with a rather disturbing song, Sir Cyril got up from his chair, placed his breifcase on the table, and started rummaging around. After removing a trombone, a hat stand, a bookcase and a straw donkey and placing them behind them, he suddenly let out a small exclamation as he found what he was looking for:

"Jawey, I see your uppercut and raise you"

He noticed that the Putzian Ambassador was now standing, and was looking rather shaken. Sir Cyril pulled out from his breifcase a Short Magazine Lee Enfield Mk III .303 rifle, pulled out the magazine cutoff, and thumbed the safety catch forward. With the rifle in his shoulder, he aimed at the Putzian delegate, and, with great precision and exaccerbating the normal rate of fire from a bolt action by using the time honoured method of cocking it from the shoulder with the thumb and forefinger, and pulling the trigger with the ring finger, fired three rounds rapidly into the Putzian delegates chest.

Sir Cyril calmly thumb forward the safety, put the mag cut off in the in position, and replaced the wood clad rifle back into his breifcase, and sat down.

It always end like this, either I am surrounded by someones commandos who are in turn surrounded by someone elses who are in turn surrounded by someone elses etc. or I am being beaten, shot at or loaded into an assortment of velocity enhancement devices of invariably either medieval or futuristic design. The Putzian UN Office is considering a holographically projected Ambassador, and probably a virtual office, if these sorts of physical threats continue to present themselves...it really is very crude to resort to violence in any debate, and especially in such a place as the UN.

If the view of my government is really so annoying and idiotic then ignore it, and let the idiocy speak for itself if it is indeed idiocy (letting each delegate decide for themselves)...but resorting to fantastical acted-out murder attempts and beatings? We find it all rather hurtful - the Ambassador is of course only the messenger.

The Ambassdor of Putzi

ooc:
I am not a violent person. There's few people that get me that angry...perhaps you should feel honoured that I hold you in such contempt that even in roleplay hitting you felt really really good.
There's idiocy and there's mind-numbing rudeness, coupled with the mentality of a cockroach. I haven't found anyone who likes roaches except perhaps as food or to be stepped on.

Okay. We're done now. If people are getting angry out of character for in character actions, then it's time to take a step back from the computer.