NationStates Jolt Archive

UNID Card Act
A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.

Category: Political Stability
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Herconia

Description: NOTING the lack of or the international differences in a proper means of UN citizens to identify themselves in UN nations other than their own.

ACKNOWLEDGING the importance of such a standardized system to simplify the transit of people between UN member nations.

The United Nations,

ESTABLISHES the system of the United Nations IDentification Card, abbreviated UNID card. The UNID card must measure 8,5 cm (3,35 inch) by 5,3 cm (2,09 inch). All nations must use a standardized format as described here. The left half has the UN logo and the right half the national logo or flag as background. At the top appears the text “UNITED NATIONS” and the issuing county’s name in both the established UN language and in the local language. At the right is the citizen’s picture in black and white. The person’s full name, date of birth, signature and place of birth are placed in that order at the middle of the card together with the expiration date and the UNID card number. It is allowed for a nation to place an RFID at the left of the card that can hold additional information at the nation’s discretion.

DEFINES the UNID card number as code comprising of a UN and national part. The first fifteen digits are a numeric number supplied by the UN as country code. The national part is at the nation’s discretion.

AWARE that the UNID card system doesn’t infringe on the liberties of UN citizens, but increases their liberties by giving an easy and safe means of identification.

DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as a valid identification of citizens of other UN nations on their soil. UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date. The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.

FORBIDS any nation other then the supplier of the UNID card to store data supplied by the UNID card without the written permission of the citizen for any means other then judiciary prosecution.

DECLARES that national governments may charge the citizen with the production cost of the card and of any replacement cards. The citizen is responsible for putting at disposal of the government a valid photograph to be used for the UNID card.

RESOLVES that all UN member nations must supply all their citizens with a UNID card at no later date than the 1st of august 2008.

AFFIRMS that UN member nations are allowed and strongly encouraged to use the UNID card as a national identification card, to give their own citizens the ability to identify themselves in their own country by the UNID card.

Original draft thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=537173).

We strongly oppose this poorly-concieved proposal, and will fight against it with all the power we have available.

This not only violates the national sovereignty of nations by forcing national governments, and by extension their citizens, into an unnecessary expenditure, it short-sightedly abolishes the established system of issuing visas without any rhyme or reason.

Not only is the fundamental idea of a national ID anathema to the cultural beliefs of Snefaldia, but the mere thought of the United Nations at large having access to important information about our private citizens is frankly alarming.

Furthermore, the elmination of the visa system will incredibly hamper UN-member governments in their ability to administer their immigration laws according to their sovereign will. I state for the record here that no UNID card, should this resolution ever pass, will be considered a valid form of passport, and thusly will not be accepted as means to enter the Centralized Mountain States.

I urge all other nations to join with me and oppose this unfair, short-sighted, and intrusive piece of legislation. The heavy-handed tactics of the Herconian delegation should serve as reason enough for National Sovereigntists and International Federalists alike to rise in unision and decry it.

May reason prevail!

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

Opposed. We like our current passport and visa system, and find it repugnant that our citizens would be forced to go through this process. Although I'm not going to repeat stuff said when this thing was still a proposal, I'll note that passing on the costs of this to our citizens isn't a solution to the cost issue, given that Goobergunchians pay a lot of taxes anyway and won't really appreciate the increase for something they'll undoubtedly see as pointless.

However, we have another method of defraying the cost.

Darren pulls out a sheet of paper from his pocket and uncrumples it.

The Low Council of the Liberal Unitary Republic has approved a one-time emergency tax of three hundred billion knugels, or 4.74 billion USD, to be assessed against the Kingdom of Herconia, should this resolution be adopted. The High Council is currently voting on a motion to authorize an army of tax collectors to collect the funds, and we expect this motion to pass.

[Lord] Matthew Stazak
President and First Minister
Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia

Although Goobergunchia does not have much of a standing army, our tax collectors have some nice weapons at their disposal. I wouldn't want to get in their way.

Darren Funkel
Acting Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder, Democratic Underground region

Her Divine Majesty, the Queen of Karianis, has given me her decision on this matter, and the vote of our country is against.

Despite our membership within the United Nations, travel into and out of, especially in the form of immigration, is highly restricted. Karianis is a sacred nation, and outsiders can taint the purity found there. For that reason, we require temporary visitors to undergo a variety of tests, and sign a good deal of paperwork before we'll allow them in, and even then, they're only allowed in specific areas. Further, Karianis's own citizens must pass even more stringent tests and requirements before they are permitted to travel abroad, and just as many when they return home, to ensure their own purity. Even I have to undergo these tests every time I return to Karianis.

Serifina grumbles briefly. It's also why I have no staff...

This proposal, if it replaces the current Visa system, will totally destroy our control over these matters, and is guaranteed to ruin the purity of our nation. This is a grave concern to us, and we sincerely hope this is defeated.

Serifina Karin
Ambassador to the United Nations
Sacred Kingdom of Karianis

The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere strongly opposes this proposal and will be casting our vote against its adoption. This resolution is cost prohibitive and would force the government of our great nation to modify its laws and regulations in ways with which we are not comfortable nor are we willing to consider at this time.

We are not prepared as a nation to modify our Immigration & Border Protection policies to allow for entry or access to Relikmere without the documentation that is currently required. Furthermore, we believe it would be a strong disservice to the protection of national interest and our citizens to accept a UNID Card, issued by an entity outside of our national jurisdiction without any additional documentation that must be approved by our national officials, in place of our Visa and Passport system.

Additionally, even if we were to accept and recognize an international identification card system for travel purposes, the fact that this resolution requires that each government supply all citizens with said identification card is something with which we take issue. Some individuals (including citizens of Relikmere as well as travelers from other sovereign nations) have had their rights to obtain formal international travel documents from our government revoked either permanently or temporarily and therefore issuing them this card as proposed would be in direct violation of several other of our nation's laws.

We understand Herconia's desire to simplify the system of international travel as we appreciate the complexity that occurs with each nation having its own policies, documents, and paperwork related to crossing their borders. That being said, we assert that this complex system is not only a reflection of the right of each member state to individually control access to their own borders but also a necessity in the interests of national security for all nations and their respective citizens.

We urge our respected fellow member nations to join us in voting against this resolution and supporting our sovereign rights to protect our citizens and our borders in the way we each individually see fit.

------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller
Deacon Prince & Heir to the Throne of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

UNID Card Act
A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.
This one instantly earns our NO vote.

Description: NOTING the lack of or the international differences in a proper means of UN citizens to identify themselves in UN nations other than their own.
ACKNOWLEDGING the importance of such a standardized system to simplify the transit of people between UN member nations.
The UN is not a union of states where we have to ease movement of population between our nations. We don't see a need for this.

The UNID card must measure 8,5 cm (3,35 inch) by 5,3 cm (2,09 inch).
My, what a card. It won't fit in most standard Nord-Brutlandese wallets! ;)

... At the top appears the text “UNITED NATIONS” and the issuing county’s name in both the established UN language and in the local language...
Here in Brutland and Norden we don't have counties, we have provinces and grants (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Grattio). And what if the country has 9 official languages? The card must be bigger to accommodate 'em all.

DEFINES the UNID card number as code comprising of a UN and national part. The first fifteen digits are a numeric number supplied by the UN as country code. The national part is at the nation’s discretion.
di Fontana, Kyle R. #27885263-1-667336-000-1989-0919-U-000-000-004-598-839-662-918-KRF-I-LUV-U

UNID Card Act
A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.
...
AWARE that the UNID card system doesn’t infringe on the liberties of UN citizens, but increases their liberties by giving an easy and safe means of identification.
Eh?

DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as a valid identification of citizens of other UN nations on their soil. UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date. The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.
But we want Mastercard! :D

DECLARES that national governments may charge the citizen with the production cost of the card and of any replacement cards. The citizen is responsible for putting at disposal of the government a valid photograph to be used for the UNID card...
THE COST! Oh the cost!

Kyle R. di Fontana
The Teenager at the Nord-Brutlandese Mission to the United Nations

PS. But I'd like to congratulate the author for giving us something to vote on. ;) I know resolutions are hard to write, so congratulations for writing one.

The Democratic Republic of Zabin joins with other fellow minded countries in condemning this the UN ID proposal. Not only is this infringing on the sovereignty of nations it also poses serious questions of where does the power of the UN end?

The UN seems to become an all pervasive influence removing all powers of the government to grant or deny visas to foreign citizens.More ever the supplier of the cards will have undue access to private information of citizens which even national government's have no access too.

What is to prevent the misuse of such information by external bodies. So i would request all like minded nations to join in opposing and vote against the UN ID proposal.

The Community of Counterpeeps joins with other nations in opposing the proposed UNID Card.

The promise of the UNID card system doesn’t infringe on the liberties of UN citizens, but increases their liberties by giving an easy and safe means of identification. in the minds of our government and citizenry would increase the liability of breakaway terrorists groups to travel freely between UN Nations that have this card in effect. Although Counterpeeps strives to give their citizens freedom to choose, some regard has to be given to personal and country safety.

Plus, the Community of Counterpeeps uses a simple identification process for it's citizens...

http://www.vonnyt.com/RUSH_2112.jpg

For these reasons stated above, the Community of Counterpeeps opposes the pending resolution.

We are aware we are coming very late to this; our apologies for being absent for so many of the drafting discussions. Our response to "that's already been said, abd rebutted" is "nuh nuh nuh can't hear you".

Our objections are based on the following:

1. We do not lack a proper means of identifying ourselves abroad. We have a passport system in Quintessence of Dust that works perfectly adequately. We recognise the possibility of some international cooperation in this matter, but there is no need to yank away so much power for the UN in the absence of any particular benefit.

2. We won't complain about unfunded mandate, because were it for a different cause, we might not have a problem with the UN spending a considerable sum. But still, it would be nice to see where these funds are coming from.

3. The card details don't make a lot of sense: what is 'the established UN language'? There are many countries without an official language, or with several; the 'local language' is of little help either: a Colonial native living in Highmark City would probably be Francophone, but the local language (such as is) of Highmark is English.

4. Let's assume the average UN nation has 500 million citizens. 500 million x 2,000 = 1 trillion. The cards must be replaced every 5 years, and presumably a fair few more will be lost given the abject lack of anti-fraud protections (worth an entire objection in itself, probably). Is the 'UNID card number' not going to get prohibitively long very quickly? I know credit cards have 16 or more digits, but they don't have to fit flags and such onto them as well. (Bear in mind, it consists of 15 digits for the country; for a nation with several billion citizens, that's at least another 10 digits - not counting replacements.)

5. We could never endorse the laughably sick proposition that 'giving an easy and safe means of identification' 'increases...liberties'. Tattoos and yellow stars would have the same liberating function, presumably.

6. Further, we are at a loss to see what this does increase, other than bureaucracy and expenses. Since when was the passport and visa system presumably in wide international use so in danger of catastrophic collapse?

7. We absolutely refuse to endorse the concept of national ID cards.

Yeah, against.

-- George Madison
UN Ambassador
The Democratic States of Quintessence of Dust

The Confederacy of Dilmatrix opposes this proposal wholeheartedly. Our nation has a well integrated office of immigration and are happy with current policies. The arrival of "undesirables" due to a card that was forced to be paid for by the people of our nation against their will is atrocious.

Our citizen's personal information is also classified to those outside of our fine nation. No foreigner is allowed to learn an identity of one of our citizens. The U.N.'s power amongst these issues, as pointed out, is increasing with proposals like this and losing site of the original purpose. Nations bind together in the UN to solve issues and prevent large-scale wars, global destruction, and apalling humanitarian crimes of any form. The U.N. is not the all powerful governing body of this world, it is the collection of the many governing bodies that represent many different peoples. The ranks of nations in the U.N. would probably skyrocket if its leaders can realize that regions and their nations are sovereign and independent beings which should not be subject to any laws that do not help GLOBAL well-being. As well, no rights of any regions, nations, or citizens should ever be oppressed.

While we appreciate the effort "to simplify the transit of people between UN member nations", we do not wish to have our rights and sovereignty slowly dissected, it is the unanimous opinion of The Confederacy to say no to this new proposal.

On behalf of President Dilarus M. Hartman and the Confederate Senate,
Secretary Robert V. Matteo
Secreatry of Immigration
C.O.D.'s Temporary Ambassador to the U.N.
The Confederacy of Dilmatrix

We, the People of The Confederacy of The Zombinistan, and the peoples of Mountaineeristan, speak as one to the body presently assembled. The independent nature of our people is incompatible with the provisions outlined is the draft before us this day. So as the UN Representative from The Confederacy of The Zombinistan, and as acting envoy for the people of Mountaineeristan, we must vote against the UNID card act. But wish to express our openness for possible future amended versions of the act. Although late to the debate, we feel that any Global ID system can be made compatible with CURRENT UN Member State ID, or Passport Systems. So in the interest of National security, in a time of terrorism, The Confederacy of The Zombinistan is open to any security measures that would benefit her Citizens, But the resolution in its current form does not meet that standard, nor is it efficently going to address the global ID issue, So upon orders from The Confederacy of The Zombinistan and on behalf of the Peoples of Mountaineeristan we must vote no.

Jason R.
UN Ambassador- The Confederacy of The Zombinistan
UN Envoy- Region of Mountaineeristan

Oh for the love of all things Holy no!

I thought we'd seen an end to poorly thought out legislation, but alas, we have not. If this passes, Cobdenia may have to leave the UN - if we can't re-jigger the time portal that engulfs our nation to spit out foriegners...

The Incorporated States of The Oceanic Peoples have voted against this measure.

May it never prevail.

The Democratic Republic of Hayukania strongly opposes this resolution for the following reasons.

The Republic of Hayukania is looking forward to stick to his state souvereignity for several centuries, and the UNID Card Act would restrain this process.

Regarding nations with a weak economy, it is obvious that the existance of such states would get endangered by the UNID Card Act.

The Republic of Hayukania does not see the necessity of such an Act, given that identification with the United Nations already starts to exist in the moment a nation enters the UN and one must not force every single citizen of a state to share the nation's identification with the UN.

A counter suggestion could be to make the UN accept the individual ID cards of the single nations, which would be much easier concerning the financial aspects and could have the same effect, the acceptance of the documentation of every souvereign state.

Concluding, the Chancellor of the Democratic Republic of Hayukania Rufus Casio Nasim, representing the will of his citizens, disagrees on the current resolution.

We, the people of Leshinstan, agree with most of the act accept for this: "The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations." Therefore we must vote against this act.

Having just read this proposal, we, the comrades of the USSDC are outraged.

This proposal seems to move the countries of the UN closer to an orwellistic police state. We deem it an unnessecary precaution that these cards be introduced, since the passports allow the noble workers of all nations to be recognised, even on foreign shores.

Also, these cards may well be beyond the reach of some of the poorer nations of the UN, and these cards seem to favour the oppressive capitalist states who see it as their objective to monitor their proleteriat and bourgeoisie so that they could better opress them.

Therefore: I feel it our duty as a nation with an interest in the better good of all comrades around the world to oppose this joke of a motion, and i urge the aforementioned comrades to rise up against this mockery of legislation and freedom.

Yours

First Comrade Derek Crosby

Is this even a relevant proposal?

I vote AGAINST this proposal.


President Vladimir Kozentov
Leader of Chernobyl Power Plant

If we all went to Cobdenia to get paper IDs, would that mean when we left it we would get this expensive card?

Plus...if we only gave it to citizens and not nationals then we could have only 2% of the Gaffaen population needing one...

Oh yeah! We disapprove.

A scruffy looking Government Accountant.

UNID Card Act
A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.

.....

AWARE that the UNID card system doesn’t infringe on the liberties of UN citizens, but increases their liberties by giving an easy and safe means of identification.

Well first off, isn't that a contradiction within the proposal?


Secondly, I cannot find a reason to replace our current passport/visa/driver's license for identification in or out of country.

Finally, the cost of this outweighs the purpose of this proposal. Our nations would have to pay great amounts to replace systems that do not need replacing.

Given these reasons Cookesland votes solidly AGAINST

Richard York
UN Ambassador

It is the position of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Commonwealth of Le Terre that matters such as ID cards, passports, and any other form of identification should be left up to individual countries.

however, we would glady support a resolution to regulate internation identificaton or requirements for traveling abroad, but no resolution making an internation system of ID cards.

Regretfully Greyuria of the N.S.A region must also vote against the act.

Although we are principly in favour of the id cards we have a four step rating for nations regarding their citizens desiring on traveling to Greyuria.

The rating is based on the current relations with Greyuria, and the stability of the nation in question.

The ID card presupposes that all UN nations are stable and their citizens can be trusted. We reject this notion.

Federick D. Paxton
Governor of Greyuria

Oh what the heck. I know I weighed in a bit during drafting, but I didn't take the chance to really take it apart cuz I never figures it would make it this far.

*sighs* Alright then, what have we here...


Description: NOTING the lack of or the international differences in a proper means of UN citizens to identify themselves in UN nations other than their own.

Largely, fine. It is true that there is nothing currently standardizing id's in such a fashion across the entirety of the UN. However, there is also nothing stating that nations cannot require minimum standards of identification from any who wish to cross into their territories. Nor is there anything currently preventing citizens from finding out how those requirements might be met before embarking on any voyage to another nation. So, meh shrugs

ACKNOWLEDGING the importance of such a standardized system to simplify the transit of people between UN member nations.

Well, I don't know that transit between UN nations is really that complicated to begin with that it needs to be simplified in such a fashion. It also is not really clearly demonstrated how this will simplify anything. Aside from making it easier for counterfeiters to offer ID from any UN nation on the planet, it is simply creating extra bureaucracy for people to wade through if they wish to make any sort of international voyage.

The United Nations,

Hey, that's us! w00t!

ESTABLISHES the system of the United Nations IDentification Card, abbreviated UNID card. The UNID card must measure 8,5 cm (3,35 inch) by 5,3 cm (2,09 inch).

Minor Nitpick: Arbitrary numbers seemingly gleaned from the ether.

All nations must use a standardized format as described here. The left half has the UN logo and the right half the national logo or flag as background. At the top appears the text “UNITED NATIONS” and the issuing county’s name in both the established UN language and in the local language. At the right is the citizen’s picture in black and white. The person’s full name, date of birth, signature and place of birth are placed in that order at the middle of the card together with the expiration date and the UNID card number. It is allowed for a nation to place an RFID at the left of the card that can hold additional information at the nation’s discretion.

All of these specifications could have been dramatically simplified by making the UN, or some agency thereof, the sole issuers of the card and stating that all cards will meet standardized specs.

DEFINES the UNID card number as code comprising of a UN and national part. The first fifteen digits are a numeric number supplied by the UN as country code. The national part is at the nation’s discretion.

Again, could have been included in the above statement about just stating that they will be standardized and issued by a single agency (or whatever) and that the UNID numbers will be unique to each card.

AWARE that the UNID card system doesn’t infringe on the liberties of UN citizens, but increases their liberties by giving an easy and safe means of identification.

Forcing someone to do more and get more if they want to do something they could already do more easily is very much infringing on their liberties. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, but let's call a spade a spade; there's no need to lie about it.

DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as a valid identification of citizens of other UN nations on their soil.

I can kinda accept that. There's nothing stating that I can't enforce verification of authenticity of the card before accepting it, so whatever.

UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date.

Species Issues will arise for creatures that have lifespans longer or shorter than us humans. I'm sure Vermithrax's appearance will change very little within the next 50 years, and as sure as I am that she will not mind having her glorious visage rephotographed a bit more frequently than necessary, it still remains unnecessary. Conversely, there are creatures whose entire lifespan is only around 5-10 years, so an adult could still be walking around with valid photo ID acquired when they were but an infant.

The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.

No. Definitely not. Hell No. Everything up to this point was leaning towards a replacement to a passport, which might have worked. Difference being that a passport does not guarantee you entry into anywhere, while a Visa is a passport ammendment or ratification that allows entry onto foreign soil. Granting every citizen of every UN nation one of these ID cards will mean that we will have no control of who we allow to cross our own borders. This cannot stand.

FORBIDS any nation other then the supplier of the UNID card to store data supplied by the UNID card without the written permission of the citizen for any means other then judiciary prosecution.

So nations would not be allowed to keep any record of who has passed onto their soil or where they came from. That's just plain foolhardy.

DECLARES that national governments may charge the citizen with the production cost of the card and of any replacement cards. The citizen is responsible for putting at disposal of the government a valid photograph to be used for the UNID card.

This line is completely unnecessary. Without it, governments would have the choice of either footing the bill themselves or passing along the costs. With this line, the government is incapable of taking the photographs themselves.

RESOLVES that all UN member nations must supply all their citizens with a UNID card at no later date than the 1st of august 2008.

Guess nations like Cobdenia are in the clear for a while, as they're stuck a few decades in the past.

AFFIRMS that UN member nations are allowed and strongly encouraged to use the UNID card as a national identification card, to give their own citizens the ability to identify themselves in their own country by the UNID card.

Meh. Another line that just doesn't mean much or do anything.

All in all, I have to oppose. If for no other reason than the desire to retain some control over who enters our national boundaries, which we would lose the instant this ID Card replaces all Visa Systems currently in use.

Oskar Feldstein
Kivistan UN Ambassador
Staking The Master's Claims

Sanguinex stands opposed to this resolution. I believe most of our objections have already been covered, particularly by Quintessence of Dust, though I might make slightly more of an issue about the lack of any mention even of anti-counterfeiting measures.

Sebastian Rath
Sanguinoi Ambassador to the UN

We the people of Sacaria strongly oppose this resolution.

If our government feels the need to supply our citizens with a national ID card, then we will do so by ourselves. Our King feels this gives the U.N. to much authority over his people, Sacarian domestic affairs, and we feel it restricts too many political freedoms. The Kingdom of Sacaria will withdrawl from the United Nations if this resolution is passed.

Dimitri Alvarez
Sacarian U.N. embassador

Bloodstone Kay will be voting against this resolution.

I'll conceed the fact that the Kivistan Ambassador has already brought up our main reason for voting against, the fact that this proposal replaces the visa system, allowing anyone and everyone unhinderable movement within UN nations.

Keelhaul Basingstoke
Bloodstonian UN Pirate

Ausserland has voted NO.

We repeatedly asked the author to lay out for us the benefits this resolution would bring. All he ever could come up with was that it would make it easier for people who traveled to foreign countries. That fails the test of logic. At present, my traveling citizen has a passport. Under this resolution, he'd have an ID card. What's easier about that?

Then there's the cost factor. Our population is just under 5 billion. We'd have to issue 5 billion ID cards. And, every five years, we'd have to reissue or somehow revalidate 5 billion ID cards. If the author has nothing better to do with his citizens' tax dollars, we congratulate him. We'd rather use this substantial sum for worthwhile purposes.

Now let's put these two together. We issue 5 billion cards. But let's say only 500 thousand of our citizens ever travel to foreign countries. Even if we would accept the illogical claim of the author that this resolution would somehow make it easier for them, we've just thrown away the cost of 4.5 billion cards. That's sheer lunacy!

Finally, there's the most offensive sentence in the resolution:

The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.

We firmly believe that it is the responsibility and inalienable right of our government to control entry to our nation. We have established a system of issuing visas to aid in that. This resolution would require us to abandon that system, and for absolutely no good reason. We will not, under any circumstances, allow the NSUN to dictate to us how we will determine who is and is not allowed to enter our nation.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

Akimonad is voting No.

Hopefully we'll be the delegate before the vote ends, to contribute to our own effort.

In other news, all drinks for the against effort are on me in the Bar. My tab's not getting any lower, so enjoy yourselves.

Be sure to mention that at the bar.

~Dr. Jules Hodz,
Delegate-elect, Conservative Paradise

Iunxi opposes the UNID Card Act, because it is seen has highly ineffective. The idea of a standardized system of identification throughout the UN nations is not bad, in and of itself, but way in which the UNID Card Act proposes to go about it is. To replace the current visa system is unnecessary and foolish. A country has the right to admit people into the country at its own discretion, not simply because they are also a member of a UN nation. As a whole, it will weaken the security of all UN nations. Also, the government of the country issuing the card should be able standardize the photo-taking method to prevent fraud. In more socialized nations it is very appropriate that the government should pay for the entire cost of such a card and not expect its citizens to. Of course, Iunxi believes that there are better places to spend its money than on UNIDs, and thus opposes this measure.

The Nomadic Peoples of Iunxi

This is an excellent way to keep track of what countries people are from. They can also rank countries easier.


George J. Stout
President of the People's Republic of Issriac

This is an excellent way to keep track of what countries people are from. They can also rank countries easier.


George J. Stout
President of the People's Republic of Issriac

It's also a complete waste of money that no one has.

I can't imagine how much it will cost to print trillions of ID cards.

We the people of Emsoland in our first vote oppose this measure as it infringes our constitution. Which allows freedom of movment for our people . Anyway most of our people are to drunk when abroad to remember an idcard.

This is an excellent way to keep track of what countries people are from. They can also rank countries easier.


George J. Stout
President of the People's Republic of Issriac

First off, we'd like to welcome the representative of Issriac to the UN. Now we have a couple of things we'd like him to think about....

Who's going to be keeping track? We can only assume it's your government authorities. That's fine. If they want to use an ID card system to keep track of the citizens and nationals of your country, they can set up a system. They can figure out what should be on the ID cards and for how long they should be valid. They can decide if the payoff will be worth the cost. Nothing stops them from doing that. But why should the UN force every one of its member nations to do that, whether they believe it's worthwhile or not?

If you want to keep track of foreigners within your borders, just require them to have a valid passport--and a visa, if you want. Again, you can do that now without having this grotesquely expensive system shoved down every nation's throat. Of course, if this resolution passes, you'll be forbidden to use visas.

And we don't understand the comment about ranking. Who's ranking what? If you mean the stats on the NS nation pages, this system won't do a thing to help with that. That's already working quite well without it.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

"Stand aside Bob, I'll cast our vote on this one.

With absolutely no regret whatsoever, I cast The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites' vote AGAINST this resolution. The fact that this proposal would completely eliminate our long established system of issuing visas to people wanting to enter our nation is the worst idea I've ever heard of. Think about this from a national security standpoint, this proposal would require you to allow anyone possessing one of these cards into you nation, even if they were a known terrorist."

Brandon Flibble
The Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites

We the people of Sacaria strongly oppose this resolution.

If our government feels the need to supply our citizens with a national ID card, then we will do so by ourselves. Our King feels this gives the U.N. to much authority over his people, Sacarian domestic affairs, and we feel it restricts too many political freedoms. The Kingdom of Sacaria will withdrawl from the United Nations if this resolution is passed.

Dimitri Alvarez
Sacarian U.N. embassador

We're quite pleased that this resolution is currently being voted down by a considerable margin. We're completely AGAINST.

Vance Aceon
Deputy Presiding Jevian UN Representative

I wonder why Herconia's not here to defend their proposal, they were here before...

(hell no, by the way. Feeder TSP is currently 7-0 against)

Jainey Slate
UN Rep

Let's do a little reasoning. Using the information that was so helpfully brought forth by the Secretariat during the draft proposal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13018453&postcount=10), I'm going to present for you what it would cost Snefaldia to do this.

Smart Card World offers 80,000 cards for $0.58 a pop. It looks like they'll go as low as $0.46 per, on an "ask for" quantity. So... let's call it 50 cents a card (which is cheap... I remember when they were $5 each). 8,552,000,000 cards at $0.50 a card comes to a total of $4,276,000,000.00 just for the cards themselves. This includes 4 color/1 color offset printing, but doesn't involve any security features on the face of the card. It also doesn't include any personalization. If you want the person's picture, name, etc. on the card, it will cost even more.

There are currently 1,605,000,000 people in Snefaldia. Using this information, that would amount to 802,500,000 NSD. In Snefaldian me-wak (œ), that would roughly be ~œ2,255,025,000 , roughly two trillion me-wak. According to the Snefaldian Budgetary Report (http://nstracker.jfsoftware.com/index.php?nation=Snefaldia), this is more money than our government spends on education, the largest percentage of our national budget.

All that for a card that won't even satisfy the basic requirements of the proposal. In twenty years, this will equal an expenditure of œ9,020,100,000, which is more than the entire yearly budget of the nation at this time.

Consider, too, that Snefaldia is a nation of average economic status. Those nations who are below even the midline will be forced to pay more.

Once again, I must stress that opposition to this proposal is the only genuine answer.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

Unfortunately my tenure as delegate for my region has ended.I have however advised my replacement to vote a resounding NOon this one.Not only is it incredibly wasteful monetarily but it is rather redundant in light of the passport/ID programs most civilized countries have already in place.

Damn, I really really need another Hurricane ASAP.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/Yelda/neanderthal.jpg

A Neanderthal gentleman enters the General Assembly, dressed in freshly skinned animal hides and carrying a spear.

Glog MAD!!!

Glog hear of new UN law. Glog walk many days, sleep in rain and fight bear to reach UN cave mountain. Cave mountain BAD!!!. Cave mountain have many strange people. More than ten. Not Glog people. Strange people BAD!!!

New UN law BAD!!! New UN law say: The UNID card must measure 8,5 cm (3,35 inch) by 5,3 cm (2,09 inch). All nations must use a standardized format as described here. The left half has the UN logo and the right half the national logo or flag as background. At the top appears the text “UNITED NATIONS” and the issuing county’s name in both the established UN language and in the local language. At the right is the citizen’s picture in black and white. The person’s full name, date of birth, signature and place of birth are placed in that order at the middle of the card together with the expiration date and the UNID card number. It is allowed for a nation to place an RFID at the left of the card that can hold additional information at the nation’s discretion. Glog people work with wood, leather and stone. All this not fit on stone tablet. Wood and leather no good either.

New UN law say: DEFINES the UNID card number as code comprising of a UN and national part. The first fifteen digits are a numeric number supplied by the UN as country code. The national part is at the nation’s discretion.
Ten numbers GOOD!!! Fifteen numbers bad. Glog not know fifteen. Might be magic number, more than ten. Magic BAD!!!

New UN law say: The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.
This BAD!!! Glog visa branded in foreign visitors buttocks with FIRE. Fire GOOD!!! Branding GOOD!!! Last long time. Many summers. UN visa bad.

Glog Firemaker son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

Sub-optimization is rarely a good thing. A properly barcoded populous is much easier to police. Visitors can apply for a visa and keep the wheels of industry turning. We vote against.

Dezmar ben-Cyphr
The U.C. of Maximus Libra

There is no need to have a UNID Card. We have Passports. We have checkpoints. No reason to have another attempt at a World Government. We can control our own affiars, thank you very much.


Donna Kenning
UN Ambassador

We are unable to decide which of the two preceeding contributions was the more disturbing.

That aside, we must report that Gobbannium has voted AGAINST this sorry proposal. None of the objections raised either during the drafting phase or now that we are at vote have been successfully answered, largely because they are accurate assessments of the unworthiness of this proposal.

Edit: OOC: Sorry Minilla Island, I was referring to Glog and Maximus Libra!

The Dictatorship of Magick and Witchcraft is soundly for a ID card that goes across all UN nations. As we do not yet have a national ID card, this makes perfect sense. We don't have any crime in our nation, in thanks to our excellant police force and military. Anyone who was a terroist in our country would be locked up and any terrorists that entered to try something would have another thing coming. The Dictatorship of Magick and Witchcraft votes Yes.

Autumn Pantherpaw
Dictator of Magick and Witchcraft.

*glances towards caveman* Very interesting! Anyway, The Nation of Winter Vacationers votes NO!

Frank Jackson, Foreign Relations Officer of Winter Vacationers.

The Logopian government strongly opposes this resolution.

This is an unnecesary infringement on the natural right of sovereign states to control thier own inmigration. Furthermore the "benefits" it would bring are far away from justifying the monstrous costs it imposes.

"The Most Serene Republic of Ghostlin must vote against this proposal. Shipping out cards for all of our citizens as a carte blance UN identifaction is a law that will cost us unnecessary funds that could go to the welfare of our citizens.

Furthermore, certain of our citizens would see this as a form of the UN governance when they may not choose to the travel or even have ID with the other UN nations. An voluntary UN passport for travellers we could see, but an ID card identifying Ghostlin's citizens that they must have due to UN edict seems unnecessary and controlling."

-Alex Taurit, Secretary of Foreign Relation for the Serene Republic.

His Most Serene Highness has directed a NO vote on this proposed resolution. A mandatory international ID card is anathema to the libertarian principles upon which the Organic Farming Communes of Los De Abajo were founded.

Johannes Toynbee,
Archduke and Ambassador to the United Nations

<snip>Now we just need Krankor to resurface...

I cannot help but be curious about why those who have cast votes in favor of this resolution have chosen to do so? Virtually all of the dialogue and discussion occurring here in these halls has indicated no favor yet still some of our membership have chosen to support it. Perhaps a representative of a member nation that supports this proposal could shed some light on their reasoning in hope of both providing the other perspective in this debate as well as possibly helping those of us who see no reason to support this proposal see a reason to support it if indeed one is there that resonates with us. Maybe?

---------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

The government of the St Edmundan Antarctic adds another definite 'NO' to the list.
Most of the points on which we object to this proposal have already been raised by the representatives of other nations, but -- in case anybody here is still undecided on the matter -- we would point out two more problems caused by the clause about these cards replacing visa systems:

Firstly, the fact that this replacement would apprently occur immediately after the proposal was passed -- if that sad event were to occur -- means that the clause giving us just under a year in which to issue the cards would effectively be meaningless, because any of our people wishing to travel to another UN nation (or who were already within another UN nation?) would therefore require their cards immediately.
Secondly and far worse, the fact that as only citizens of UN nations would have these cards there would then be no legal way for nationals of non-UN nations to enter UN nations... unless having totally open borders was considered acceptable both under this proposal's terms and by the governments of the UN nations concerned.

As a member of the community of Butumbu, and as a messenger of this great land where megatheriums frolic freely in the nation's many lush forests,

I, Little Blue Flower Armando Joss Randal Bonanza del Ecuador, opposes this resolution.

A "resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order" can't, by definition, be accepted by our nation. Political freedoms are here to stay.

Furthermore, names of the majority of our citizen being sometimes very long for foreign standards (as the great scientist Herr Marcel Andronicus Paul-André Habib Shlomo Mordechai Amedeus Wolfgang Friedrich Zout Hermes Zapatero del gran camino en el sur de la ciudad de Manas Von Karavanserail found out when exploring unknown parts of the world), it's seems difficult to write it down on the card in the two hundred and five official languages of Butumbu.
Also, freedom being freedom, some of our population refuse the utilisation of any pictorial representation for religious, cultural or whatever reasons. And they have the right to do so.

[indent]UNID Card Act
AWARE that the UNID card system doesn’t infringe on the liberties of UN citizens, but increases their liberties by giving an easy and safe means of identification.

If it restricts political freedom, it restricts liberties. So We, people of Butumbu are fully aware that this sentence doesn't make sense and is plain fascist propaganda.

Minor problems will not be discussed as we just strongly oppose this resolution.

We said,

Little Blue Flower Armando Joss Randal Bonanza del Ecuador, messenger and citizen of Butumbu.

We see no need to implement some form of international ID Card system (Visas/Passports already provide similar functionality). As such our vote is registered in opposition.

BTW: Tekania is back from the grave, and I would like to thank the powers that be for its restoration to the universe of the living....

I am not a man prone to emotional outbusts [oh, really? you should see him after a couple of glasses of rice wine ~ anonymous Dashanzi scribe] but this resolution has rendered me almost breathless for the effort to control my rage. It is an abomination and I have no hesitation in casting the New Cultural Revolution's vote against it.

Let it be known that, should the United Nations take leave of its collective senses and adopt this monstrosity in its statute, we will refuse to put a single yuan towards implementing the measures contained therein on the assumption that a forceful repeal will be successful long before the resolution's stated deadline. Should the UN continue to cast common sense to the winds, however, Dashanzi will reluctantly resign its membership, ruing the untimely passing of a once noble institution.

Benedictions,

The Dictatorship of Magick and Witchcraft is soundly for a ID card that goes across all UN nations. As we do not yet have a national ID card, this makes perfect sense.

With all due respect, this does not make perfect sense. If a nation doesn't have a national ID card, that's not a reason to vote for this unnecessary resolution...it's a reason for that nation to implement a national ID card system, nothing more. This resolution would require you pay for establishing the "UN card" in your country anyway, so why not just establish a national ID in your country on your own, and spare many of us the cost of having to do so twice?

For those nations (such as Altanar) that do have a national ID card system already, this is a duplicative and costly resolution that is patently unnecessary. Passports/visas and national IDs already perform the function that this resolution claims to achieve.

In addition, we are annoyed by these two clauses:

DECLARES that national governments may charge the citizen with the production cost of the card and of any replacement cards. The citizen is responsible for putting at disposal of the government a valid photograph to be used for the UNID card.

RESOLVES that all UN member nations must supply all their citizens with a UNID card at no later date than the 1st of august 2008.

We're concerned that not enough time is given to member states to set up this completely unnecessary ID card, and also that the cost of the card, and the time involved in providing photographs, is to be borne entirely by the unfortunate taxpayers of UN member states. We dislike unfunded mandates, especially when they are completely unnecessary.

Altanar, as you no doubt guessed, is voting against.

Jinella Agaranth, Ambassador

For those Countries that do currently have a national ID card system, would this new UNID card system essentially replace the existing system? Allowing for the transfer of resources, funding and personnel, therefore not costing the said government any more than their current system?

The government of Flatvia has been contemplating an ID card system, but has not yet enacted it. This UN decision gives us the opportunity to do.

We therefore vote Yes.

Michael Dunn
Prime Minister
Federated Peoples' Republic of Great Flatvia

For those Countries that do currently have a national ID card system, would this new UNID card system essentially replace the existing system? Allowing for the transfer of resources, funding and personnel, therefore not costing the said government any more than their current system?

Whether it replaces the current system is, to us, irrelevant. Nations that already have a system will be forced to spend millions, if not billions, to change over to (or implement concurrently) the new UN system, especially if their current system is not set up in the same way. That's paying for something twice, and we see no reason for it, since the new system offers no tangible improvement over how things are currently done.

To address another point that seems to keep coming up in this debate, if your nation doesn't have an ID card system, why can't you establish one on your own, rather than forcing all UN member states to adopt a system that, for many of them, constitutes paying twice for something they already have? We fail to see how a "universal" ID card system would benefit you anyway, because it won't be tailored to your local needs or conditions.

We respectfully hope you'll reconsider your vote.

- Jinella Agaranth, Ambassador

The Howarduphonic Foreign Office, at the will of the Cabinet, utterly condems this proposition. We see this as a step towards political union within the United Nations and an erosion of national sovereignty, something this government will not tolerate.

We are perfectly happy with our current immigration and visa system and shall change it for no man.

Stephen Jones MP, Foreign Secretary of the Armed Republic of Howarduphone, CEO of Howarduphonic Basket Weavers' Concern.

As a new member to the UN, i find this first proposal at vote to be a very disturbing one, that our delegates, and their consituents find reprehensible.

it conflicts with our current immigration laws, that have been working great might i add. and we are not willing to take on any new measures in that department.

as the elected leader of the Republic of OMGSTFUNOOB, i simply cannot and will not allow this proposal affect the citizens of my young, yet strong country.

thank you for you time in hearing our opinion on this, as I fully understand we are new members to this organization.

*bows slightly and sits*

Should the UN continue to cast common sense to the winds, however, Dashanzi will reluctantly resign its membership, ruing the untimely passing of a once noble institution.

Benedictions,

Should you resign, no one will drop a tear that you left.

-- M. Diegaus III
Vice-Delegate-Select of the CP Region.

Seems to me the vice delegate of a region could afford to be more diplomatic. -- Ha! Look who's talking! :p

~Cdr. Chiang

Sorry, I'm not sure who let the accountant out of my shack/office outside.

This issue with the date intrigues me. I am aware we have some issues with people timewarping back or forth to this era which....*checks calendar on desk* is Earth time, September 2007. So while the ambassadors from the future *bows in one direction* and the past *bows in another direction* are here now is the legislation date only in effect while they are in this time-period?
Having dealt with the so-called 'now', what about the future? In the next 11 months nations will join and have an ever decreasing time period to comply. Then the date passes. Nations joining the UN after this point are in breach simply by joining - or have we made a criteria for joining? Every nation wishing to join the UN must first create ID cards and as soon as their membership is approved they must distribute them? This proposal not only has all these very real issues mentioned by the preceeding ambassadors it changes the very way the UN approval system operates!*
We cannot stand by and let this happen!

Gohn Jawey
UN Ambassador

*ooc: Rhetoric my dear mods, rhetoric.

Seems to me the vice delegate of a region could afford to be more diplomatic.

~Cdr. Chiang

Says the pot to the kettle.

-- M. Diegaus III

Says the pot to the kettle.

-- M. Diegaus III

In all fairness, while the Kennyites might not always be the most diplomatic in the GA, they aren't in a vice-delegatory position, and they are generally more diplomatic than their regional delegate. So that would be more like the silverware talking to the pot.

Frankly, I don't agree. Isn't that the beauty of all this?

-- M. Diegaus

The Empire of Pugliasium supports the iniative of the resolution, but thinks that the card is too basic and simple.

Primarily, it would be better if it featured a coloured picture instead of a black and white one, it makes it easier to identify people.

Also, it would be even better if the card can serve as a record for countries visited, and contain blood type information.

Finally, it would be even better if the card was required to open the automatic doors of public places and appartment building for security reasons.

Puglaisium will not support a weak identification programme.

Lord Cyrus Antonius
Governor-General of the Brindisia Province and Acting NSUN Envoy

The Empire of Pugliasium supports the iniative of the resolution, but thinks that the card is too basic and simple.

Primarily, it would be better if it featured a coloured picture instead of a black and white one, it makes it easier to identify people.

Also, it would be even better if the card can serve as a record for countries visited, and contain blood type information.

Finally, it would be even better if the card was required to open the automatic doors of public places and appartment building for security reasons.

Puglaisium will not support a weak identification programme.

Lord Cyrus Antonius
Governor-General of the Brindisia Province and Acting NSUN Envoy

Lord Cyrus,

I am afraid i could not differ from your view on that more. i do not see how allowing the UN to have personal information on citizens of it's country would help this organization to better the world. as a matter of fact, it would to me at least, seem that it would do nothing but make is easier for the UN to become a corrupt and over powerful central government.

i agree with you in the sense that it is necassary for all countries to know whom is entering and exiting their country, that should be the responsibilty of the host nation to keep track of.

thank you for your time in reading this. please feel free to reply, i look forward to a productive debate on this subject. so that we may learn from each other

Frankly, I don't agree. Isn't that the beauty of all this?

-- M. Diegaus

No. It just means you're mean and stupid, God be praised.

Mother Superior Cargaminh
Our Lady of the Cilice

No. It just means you're mean and stupid, God be praised.

Mother Superior Cargaminh
Our Lady of the Cilice

I do not believe your opinion was solicited, Mother Superior. However girlish and very elementary-school-like your statement, it has been noted.

I apologize for all those who were offended by the Brigadier's offhanded remark. His statements were representative of his person, not the region. He has been reprimanded duly. Any other complaints should be directed towards the Office of Professional Responsibility at the Genoshan Foreign Affairs Ministry.

Respectfully,
The Honorable Jessica Winston, DCMC
Foreign Affairs Minister
His Serene Majesty's Government
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

--In the corridor from the GA Hall, Minister Winston addresses a Genoshan Marine, "Are ALL the representatives that easy to offend?"

As the formal representitive of The Republic of Lithosians I hereby display and explain our vote on the latest resolution.

We the people vote against this UNID card. We have passports and use Visas in countries where required. Foreign travellers only require a passport to get through to our lands. We see an international database of member nations as a blatant mark against our civil rights to travel abroad unhindered. A UNID card will be expensive and pointless. Many of our more patriotic citizens see this as pandering to a foreign body and wont put up with this. They wish to be ruled by the Lithosian government not by the UN and we have listened and voted accordingly.

I do not believe your opinion was solicited, Mother Superior. However girlish and very elementary-school-like your statement, it has been noted.

I apologize for all those who were offended by the Brigadier's offhanded remark. His statements were representative of his person, not the region. He has been reprimanded duly. Any other complaints should be directed towards the Office of Professional Responsibility at the Genoshan Foreign Affairs Ministry.

Respectfully,
The Honorable Jessica Winston, DCMC
Foreign Affairs Minister
His Serene Majesty's Government
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

--In the corridor from the GA Hall, Minister Winston addresses a Genoshan Marine, "Are ALL the representatives that easy to offend?"

Oh, Ms. Winston! I'm a nun! My opinion is never solicited. And do watch your tongue, dear. It's not becoming for a young lady to speak to her elders in such a way.

Mother Superior Cargaminh
Our Lady of the Cilice

Thank you, Mother Superior. I do believe it's time for Vespers, I can handle it from here.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

OOC: No, just the belligerent old nuns!

Dr. Hodz looks around disapprovingly.

"Alright, let's calm it down in here, folks. It's unbecoming of delegates and ambassadors alike."

WORST. UN ISSUE. EVER.
Nah not that bad, but come on now. Who'd agree to it?

I, Little Blue Flower Armando Joss Randal Bonanza del Ecuador, messenger of the community of Butumbu just received this letter from one of our elders, who want to add something not very useful to the discussion:

"To Gohn Jawey, UN Ambassador,

Dear young fellow, you said earlier that

I am aware we have some issues with people timewarping back or forth to this era which....*checks calendar on desk* is Earth time, September 2007.

Not so fast. In fact 'September 2007' as 'January 2008' are not really clear, Earth time or not. Most of modern countries use gregorian calendar, but not all. For example the community of Butumbu, for secret or just unknown reasons, is still using the Julian calendar in agriculture (as well as the mayan one but it doesn't matter here). There are at least two weeks between the two. Well, that is just for talking because we are all agree here, in Butumbu, to say that this resolution is just a bad idea.

Hail to the moon !

Emerilia must politely vote NO on this issue.

This bill does not address what happens when non-UN citizens wish to enter my nation. The wording of this bill strongly implies that my nation can only issue cards to its citizens, while at the same time abolishes the visa system.

My nation's other objections have already been raised by my fellow UN members.

James Archer
Emerilian UN Ambassador

Anyone who opposes the UNID card act is really just saying that they don't care about safety also most of the countries already have IDs like drivers licenses or school IDs to get into plenty of sorts of events which is why I say that voting this down is unfair you don't have to have RFID chips in them and they don't need to be on you at all times unless the country needs to do it for security so essentially there more uniform passports that you can carry in your pocket and not be hindering.

Anyone who opposes the UNID card act is really just saying that they don't care about safety also most of the countries already have IDs like drivers licenses or school IDs to get into plenty of sorts of events which is why I say that voting this down is unfair you don't have to have RFID chips in them and they don't need to be on you at all times unless the country needs to do it for security so essentially there more uniform passports that you can carry in your pocket and not be hindering.

My country is opposed to it, because it's a waste of money and time to re-issue what we already have. And not to resort to a "NatSov" argument, we feel it would be an infringement on not only our government's right to issue visas, but the governments of others to do the same.

Respectfully,
The Honorable Jessica Winston, DCMC
Foreign Affairs Minister
His Serene Majesty's Government
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

Taking a large breath, Leetha stands. "Oh my goddess," Becherie thought to herself, "she's going to go on and on and on."

Should you resign, no one will drop a tear that you left.Delegate Diegaus, many of us would weep at the loss of the Dashanzi delegation. Their rational and cultured outlook balances much of the hooliganism that passes for diplomacy here in the NSUN.

Seems to me the vice delegate of a region could afford to be more diplomatic. -- Ha! Look who's talking! :p
~Cdr. Chiang

Seems to me the vice delegate of a region could afford to be more diplomatic. <missing portion>Says the pot to the kettle.

-- M. Diegaus III

I apologize for all those who were offended by the Brigadier's offhanded remark. His statements were representative of his person, not the region. He has been reprimanded duly. Any other complaints should be directed towards the Office of Professional Responsibility at the Genoshan Foreign Affairs Ministry.

--In the corridor from the GA Hall, Minister Winston addresses a Genoshan Marine, "Are ALL the representatives that easy to offend?"We are quite glad, Minister Winston, that your Vice Delegate has been reprimanded. Would you be kind enough to forward our objection as well to your Office of Professional Responsibility? Delegate Diegaus' rudeness is especially problematic for his alteration of the record in order to insult.

-----------------

Turning now to the resolution at vote, we must vehemently register our opposition. This resolution has nothing to do with increasing liberties and everything to do with fascist control of populations. Its many flaws have been well-identified by previous speakers and need no additional exploration.

We would add, however, that the specific replacement of the visa system gains no economies for those of us who maintain relations with non-member nations. Should this execrable resolution pass, their visitors to us and our nationals who travel there would necessitate the maintenance of a dual system of traveler's identification.

Leetha Talone
UN Ambassador

Becherie sighs with relief, "that wasn't so bad." .

It is a waste of money. We the people of the Confederacy of DCalhoun are not in support of the cards we will take our visas over the UN cards...
There is no sense in making the UN change our countries ways in the sense of cards.

"Let the Confederacy Live"

Signed,
The President,
Dennis Calhoun

I'm sorry, I seem to be a little lost on something here: you say that the UNID system will replace all standing Visa and passport systems. The question I'd like to ask is, how? You haven't explained it at all in the proposal, and so the question must be asked.

I'm sorry, I seem to be a little lost on something here: you say that the UNID system will replace all standing Visa and passport systems. The question I'd like to ask is, how? You haven't explained it at all in the proposal, and so the question must be asked.

"The nations themselves are paying for the I.D. cards out of their own pockets."

Richard York
UN Ambassador

Anyone who opposes the UNID card act is really just saying that they don't care about safety also most of the countries already have IDs like drivers licenses or school IDs to get into plenty of sorts of events which is why I say that voting this down is unfair you don't have to have RFID chips in them and they don't need to be on you at all times unless the country needs to do it for security so essentially there more uniform passports that you can carry in your pocket and not be hindering.

"At the risk of being rude, the representive of Visum does not have much connection with reality with some of the smaller representive countries. By forcing us to pay for ID reissue for all of our citizens, whether they want to travel, drive a car or the like or not is going to cost a sink of a huge amount of money that Ghostlin, for example, can use to take care of our citizens. I'm sure to some...*the Representive from Ghostlin considers his next words*...countries with more martial concerns, it could go to their military, when they're done funding $20 K hammers.

And before Ghostlin gets invasion armies, that previous statement was a joke. Secondly, Ghostlin's citizens feel safe and secure. Making an argument that this will become more safe by the government issuing billions of ID cards for the UN is kind of like ringing a bell against tigers that hide under your bed. Just because you ring a bell against tigers under the bed every night does not prove that you are safe from them."


-Alex Taurit, Secretary of Foreign Relation for the Serene Republic

I'm sorry, I seem to be a little lost on something here: you say that the UNID system will replace all standing Visa and passport systems. The question I'd like to ask is, how? You haven't explained it at all in the proposal, and so the question must be asked.

Your answer can be found in the bolded section of the following clause.

DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as a valid identification of citizens of other UN nations on their soil. UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date. The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.Does that answer your question?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Ms. Talone,

I'm quite sure that comment was not meant to insult.
Cdr. Chiang's own ending to that statement was likened to Diegaus' own reply. Diegaus was only relaying the message.

While I have reprimanded my ambassador for his actions, I will not stand by as others "gang-up" on him. He has been (save for this single time) an OUTSTANDING representative of the Isles, and a fantastic negotiator. His personnel record with the Royal Genoshan Marine Corps is stellar. He was handpicked by the late Ambassador Wesley Blade (with whom you've had problems while he was still living), agreed upon by myself, voted in unanimously by Parliament, and appointed by the King himself.

I suggest that some not take such comments to heart. While this is supposed to be a body of diplomats, not all of you are so.....diplomatic.....yourselves.

I will, however, send this to OPR, along with my personal views and opinions. Diegaus will be on leave to the Isles for a couple weeks, for a much needed vacation. I will send someone else to act as Ambassador during that tenure. I hope the absence will recharge his (and possibly, all of your) batteries. Good evening.


Respectfully,
The Honorable Jessica Winston, DCMC
Foreign Affairs Minister
His Serene Majesty's Government
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles


As she walks away, the Foreign Minister is heard mumbling something about whiners....

Easy on the sniping and threadjacking.


The Hack is also opposed to this proposal as we see it as a titanic waste of resources, and a gross violation of national sovereignty.

The concept of a nation card, on its own, isn't particularly odious to us. For awhile, the government actually barcoded its citizens, and most over the age of thirty still have these tattoos. The system is still in place, and citizens can be barcoded if they wish, but it is not longer manditory. Anyway, I digress.

As has been pointed out before, this is a major financial burden on member states, regardless of size. A nascent nation with a five million population might not have a large gross number, but it will still be a significant portion of the GDP. Quite possibly, an even greater percentage than for a larger nation. To say nothing of the replacement costs and distribution costs. Also, as mentioned before, not everyone ages at the same rate. I was perhaps a less than useful example, as I've looked the same for the past thousand years or so, but even without ridiculous dragon lifespans, five years would be way too short even for 'normal' Hackers, who can easily live over two hundred years.

To say nothing of mechanoid nations where citizens will change looks only when and if they wish.

The national sovereignty complaint is not an idle one, either. In this case, it's not the simple bleating of random nations that view any UN mandate, regardless of how minor, as an odious affront to their rights. This is an honest and true objection. Had this act only replaced passports, many of the objections would probably have faded (or, at least, turn to support-in-concept-but-not-execution). However, since this replaces visas, it utterly annihilates a nation's ability to control their own borders. This doesn't simply violate national sovereignty, it effectively obliterates it. This is a de facto elimination of national borders. The first step in elimination national distinctions alltogether. I say, without hyperbole, that this is not only a pointlessly costly proposal, but it is a catastrophically dangerous one.

Luckily, approximately 75% of the current votes appear to be against.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Tindalos/UN/Verm.jpg
Vermithrax Pejorative
UN Observer
The Federated Technocratic Oligarchy of the Most Glorious Hack

Anyone who opposes the UNID card act is really just saying that they don't care about safety

It is BECAUSE we care about the safety of our great nation and our citizens that we must oppose this resolution. Without the ability to grant visas only to those we see as fit to enter our borders and issuing international travel documents only to citizens who follow our established procedures and processes to receive said documents, it would be way to easy for those with ill will to travel into or out of our country unhindered. Granted the protections we have in place within our Immigration & Border Protection administrative rules are not foolproof, but they are an important safeguard which we are not willing to give up for the extra convenience of a "smaller passport".

------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

This act is unnecessary and superfluous. Anti-Social Darwinism says nay.

I don't think it's wise to vote against something that could be for the benefit of travelers all over the world, cards would be easier to carry. :)

This act is unnecessary and superfluous. Anti-Social Darwinism says nay. this could be an easier benefit for travelers all over the world

I don't think it's wise to vote against something that could be for the benefit of travelers all over the world, cards would be easier to carry. :)

But in many UN member states, the citizens already carry ID cards, and there is absolutely nothing in this resolution that makes the UN-issued one any easier or more beneficial than what exists now. Granted, it may be marginally and insignificantly easier to carry one card, as opposed to a national ID card and passport or visa, but the damage replacing the visa system would do to member states far outweighs the minor and questionable benefit. Only carrying one small and lightweight document, as opposed to two small and lightweight ones, isn't really much to gain at all. And it's not worth eviscerating the visa system over.

this could be an easier benefit for travelers all over the world

There have been many well-thought-out arguments showing it really wouldn't be. I'm still waiting to hear one that convinces me it would. This isn't it.

- Jinella Agaranth, Ambassador

this could be an easier benefit for travelers all over the world

I would ask the ambassador if he has ever heard of passports and border agreements.
If,as you seem to think,these will act instead of passports,i humbly suggest that you propose a UN act obliging all member states to issue passports.

Only thing missing is the requirement that the ID be tattooed on the skin of each UN nation citizen.

Intangelon and Cascadia vote AGAINST.

A tall well tanned bald man dressed in a black Armani suit enters and heads for the podium
Ladies and Gentleman
I am Gunther Richter-Dietrich,the UN attache from SturmHolm. I wish to state vehemently that this resolution is utter garbage. We feel that it violates national sovereignty and forces gross expenditures on member nations via the prohibitive costs of revamping their entire identification systems.
We do however wish to commend this august body on their superb display of wisdom shown by the overwhelming opposal to this strikingly bad resolution
Thank You for your time.


He steps down from the podium and walks briskly towards the exit,stopping long enough to collect two women at the back of the room, a rather leggy redhead and brunette who look as if they were waiting impatiently for him.He extends an arm to each and they leave both women clinging to him like glue.

The Sith are also strongly opposed to this legislation. While we have no qualms about oppressing our own citizens, we very much object to allowing anyone else to oppress our people. Furthermore, the UNID places too much power in the hands of the UN. In the words of our great hero, Darth Sidious, "All who gain power are afraid to lose it." This proposal is an obvious plot by the Jedi, and it must be stopped.
Darth Ron Paul, Lord of the Sith.

Akimonad and Conservative Paradise have voted against.

We also wish to inform The Genoshan Isles that we expect better conduct from our vice delegate. Exercise restraint, please.

~Dr. Jules Hodz
Delegate, Conservative Paradise

A question I got through TM:

There's a conflict there. Not all citizens would come in to pay for such a card. That leaves the option of sending every citizen a card with a bill attached. Who would pay for a card they never asked for in the first place, especially when the card is in hand along with the bill? Rioki will certainly not force some citizens to pay for what they never wanted. It's terribly unreasonable.
Another issue:
"The citizen is responsible for putting at disposal of the government a valid photograph to be used for the UNID card."

What if they don't? They don't get a card? If they don't get a card, then not all citizens have them.. Requiring all citizens to have them is simply an unreasonable expectation all around.

Answer:

Hello,

I know this might be a hard concept for some people to understand but for me such a system is very common. I live in Belgium and I'm just looking at the document informing me of the next steps I need to take to get my new electronic ID card. I had to pay €12,5 for the card and I had to get a photograph that was acceptable for the ID. It's just common practice, anyone here has such an ID, I don't even know what would happend if I refused to get it... I realy don't understand why it is unreasonable, if you don't want to prove with an ID you are a citizen of a certain country why would you want to be a citizen of that country...

Herc

I believe most of you don't like te proposal; my only advice to you is to have an open mind...

I know this might be a hard concept for some people to understand but for me such a system is very common. I live in Belgium and I'm just looking at the document informing me of the next steps I need to take to get my new electronic ID card. I had to pay €12,5 for the card and I had to get a photograph that was acceptable for the ID. It's just common practice, anyone here has such an ID, I don't even know what would happend if I refused to get it... I realy don't understand why it is unreasonable, if you don't want to prove with an ID you are a citizen of a certain country why would you want to be a citizen of that country...

Is it so hard to believe that some nations don't wish to either spend the government money on or force their citizens to pay for an incredibly restrictive international ID card?

Snefaldia issues several forms of identification- a passport (which is optional), a driver's license (which is also optional, and provided by the regional government according to general guidelines), or a citizen's card (which allows the bearer to vote or provide proof of citizenship). Snefaldian law does not require any citizen to get one of these cards- but there are general benefits to getting them and one cannot make certain purchases, run for office, or do certain things without the government certificate.

The main point of this is that the Snefaldian system works for Snefaldia. Why does Herconia's system have to be imposed, at great cost, upon the myriad nations of the UN?

I believe most of you don't like te proposal; my only advice to you is to have an open mind...

This is not how the law works. You can't "keep an open mind" about a bad law. We have weighed, we have considered, and we have found it wanting.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

I live in Belgium and I'm just looking at the document informing me of the next steps I need to take to get my new electronic ID card.
... I realy don't understand why it is unreasonable, if you don't want to prove with an ID you are a citizen of a certain country why would you want to be a citizen of that country...

I believe most of you don't like te proposal; my only advice to you is to have an open mind...ooc: Herconia,

It would appear that you have seriously confused the NSUN with the European Union. If you will take a moment to think about it, your resolution (as applied in RL) would require you to carry an EU ID (rather than your Belgian one) and, because you proposed to eliminate the visa system entirely, in one fell swoop would erase any national control of their own boundaries. As happily as the EU gets along, I doubt any of the EU members would be especially happy about that.

On top of that, the EU continues to use passports and visas in addition to your individual nation's ID. Your RL model doesn't support your assumptions concerning the role such ID cards would play.

And that's ignoring the fact that much of the western world stringently resists adoption of a formal, national ID at all, identifying such with a trend toward fascism and government control of individuals. Refusing to allow the state to criminalize one's lack of papers does not in any way mean such people are unpatriotic or somehow not proud of their country. Meh. Enough ooc.

----------- iic:

My good sir (madam?), our mind is so far open it makes the Snefaldians blush. But we are quite happy continuing to use our passport for purposes of identification when we travel internationally.

Leetha Talone
UN Ambassador

OoC: Passportless travel works fine in Europe now Germany's stopped it's habit of starting territorial wars and we're all nice to one another and happy clappy, but this isn't the EU, this is far scarier. Just imagine if the old Soviet Union was a member of the EU and Soviet Citizens didn't need a visa to travel to the west. Or Iraq. And those two countries make some of the NSUN members look sane. We have nations of swearing dolphins, monosyllabic neanderthols, ubercrazy theocracies who kill anyone entering their country wearing shoes, nations hell bent on the destruction of every nation containing badgers and Omigodtheykilledkenny - who invades anywhere they can't spell correctly. Just imagine a lot of heavily armed men walking into your country, and you can't stop them because they are all carrying their ID?

Ladies and Gentlemen
I am Gunther Richter-Dietrich,the UN attache from SturmHolm. I wish to state vehemently that this resolution is utter garbage. We feel that it violates national sovereignty and forces gross expenditures on member nations via the prohibitive costs of revamping their entire identification systems.

The Delegate from New Sequoyah rises to applaud. "Ditto! Ditto!" he cries as he sits back down, still clapping.

Respected Leader of Imperiolisom approches the podium

WE the nations of this union must understand what that means. A Union is a group of people who are unified as one, and are not divided. If we, the nations of this union, do not look at our selves as such we will as a Global Orginization never work. Why would people listen to what we have to say if we can't even show our Unitiy. We must do what is needed to insure our statous as a union is held. If we reject this proposal it shows us, the nations of the UN, and the world, that other nations, that we are not a union, but a group of nations who hold themselves above others, but who can't be as one, a Union, United.

WE are United Nations, we must do this act inorder to solidify this pact we have made by joining. This system will pull our nations together make the people more as one and reach our goal of a true union, increase our Soft Power, and alow our people to identify themsleves as friends and equals, people and citizens not only of one nation, but the global nation, The United Nations

Thank you and I respect all decisons made weather I, Imperiolisom argree with them or not, but in this case We, Imperiolisom, will agree to the propsol and i hope the rest of you will follow suite. Thank you and good day

I believe this bill is too expensive for all UN nations. Plus, what if some of our citizens do not want these cards?

:sniper:
:gundge:
:mp5:

Akimonad and Conservative Paradise have voted against.

We also wish to inform The Genoshan Isles that we expect better conduct from our vice delegate. Exercise restraint, please.

~Dr. Jules Hodz
Delegate, Conservative Paradise

Dr. Hodz,

My father wants to reitierate his sincerest apologies, and hopes to rebuild relations. I am acting delegate for the time being, while the Ambassador gets some rest. Hopefully, we'll work better in the future.

Respectfully,
His Royal Highness Prince Hector
Infante de Genosha
The Royal Federation of the Genoshan Isles

Your answer can be found in the bolded section of the following clause.
Does that answer your question?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

In actual fact, Mr Fibble, you didn't answer my question at all, just pointed out the phrase which I have trouble understanding.

At the moment, the current Visa system is a complex, multi-tiered structure (or at least in Damanucus, it is), so to request that it be replaced with a blanket system is simply nonsense, at least not without some indication as to how the system will work in its replacement. If you can answer that question for me, I just might vote for.

Horgen Dush
UN Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

I don't know if you realize this, but Don Flibble is opposed to this legislation. As well he should be, as it in no way iterates how travel documentation between sovereign nations will operate after August 2008. It simply states that all nations must accept the UNID Card as valid identification, and that it replaces visas. Does that clear matters up for you? No? Great, then go vote against.

Cdr. Jenny Chiang
Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations

The Council of Nevesá renders their verdict as such:
It is evident that funding for the UNID system relies upon each UN member nation, and recent issues with the National Annex concerning our budget would make it very difficult for our country to adhere to the provisions of this act.
In addition, the Council agrees that we are not willing to replace the UNID system with our current system for national identification.
Thus, by a unanimous vote of 5-0, the Council has agreed that Subistratica will not support this act.


Good day.

I believe most of you don't like te proposal; my only advice to you is to have an open mind...I read this proposal with an open mind, right up until I got to the part about replacing visas. That one clause there made this the worst proposal since Promotion of Solar Panels. In fact this proposal is so bad that I, the Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites, came here personally to speak out against it.

Respected Leader of Imperiolisom approches the podium

WE the nations of this union must understand what that means. A Union is a group of people who are unified as one, and are not divided. If we, the nations of this union, do not look at our selves as such we will as a Global Orginization never work.First off, we're not a "Global Orginization." In fact the UN membership only makes up about 1/4 to 1/3 of the total number of nations in the world.
Why would people listen to what we have to say if we can't even show our Unitiy.Showing our unity how, by voting for every piece of shit that manages to make quorum? Fuck that idea.
We must do what is needed to insure our statous as a union is held. If we reject this proposal it shows us, the nations of the UN, and the world, that other nations, that we are not a union, but a group of nations who hold themselves above others, but who can't be as one, a Union, United. No, it shows the world that we can tell the difference between good legislation and bad legislation. And this proposal falles into the latter category.

WE are United Nations, we must do this act inorder to solidify this pact we have made by joining. This system will pull our nations together make the people more as one and reach our goal of a true union, increase our Soft Power, and alow our people to identify themsleves as friends and equals, people and citizens not only of one nation, but the global nation, The United NationsYeah, and it'll also force us to allow any known terrorist who happens to be a citizen of a UN member nation into our nation.

Thank you and I respect all decisons made weather I, Imperiolisom argree with them or not, but in this case We, Imperiolisom, will agree to the propsol and i hope the rest of you will follow suite. Thank you and good dayAnd I personally think that you're an pinhead for thinking that this proposal is a good idea.

Brandon Flibble
The Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites

In actual fact, Mr Fibble, you didn't answer my question at all, just pointed out the phrase which I have trouble understanding.First off, it's Flibble, not Fibble.

At the moment, the current Visa system is a complex, multi-tiered structure (or at least in Damanucus, it is), so to request that it be replaced with a blanket system is simply nonsense, at least not without some indication as to how the system will work in its replacement. If you can answer that question for me, I just might vote for.

Horgen Dush
UN Representative, Nomadic Peoples of DamanucusYou're quite correct, the idea of scrapping all visa systems currently in place in UN member nations is nonsense. However, if this proposal passes, that's exactly what will happen.

WE are the people of the UN, we should allow our people to travel in UN countires with not problems, like that of the EU in our real life. WE need to adress the situation of Global Dominance and a Global Government. As the UN we are the worlds government, so we need to act like it, and not just some group of diplomats with big egos. If we are to be a Global State then this is one step that should be taken now before it has to later.

The idea of if our people want it should not matter. We the leaders of our countries are in charge, the people live to serve the state and therefore it does not matter what they think becasue they either should do as the state wants or are part of the state and shall either way support this decree.

Imperiolisom supports this act seperate of its regent and the UN delegate for the country state above has been "replaced" hence forth by Me, the Leader of the country.

I hack it, to expensive and limiting my political freedoms so foreign devils can enter the Federation of LeoGecko, my, this calls for an embargo.

I voted for this because no one else has proposed a better proposal for a common or basic identification. Though the proposal is lacking in details, it's a good start than nothing. I'd say its better carrying a card rather than lugging a passport around especially in an organization like ours where there are 21,115 member nations and 1,965 Regional Delegates.

As for other nations who may not be able to afford such things, I'm sure the UN can assist in making cards. Passports and such are probably more expensive or as expensive. There could be a timetable for a slow transition for a UNID.

I see this just as simplification of information, and that is all. It's not a free pass to any country, pass Go and collect 200.

WE are the people of the UN, we should allow our people to travel in UN countires with not problems, like that of the EU in our real life. WE need to adress the situation of Global Dominance and a Global Government. As the UN we are the worlds government, so we need to act like it, and not just some group of diplomats with big egos. If we are to be a Global State then this is one step that should be taken now before it has to later.

The idea of if our people want it should not matter. We the leaders of our countries are in charge, the people live to serve the state and therefore it does not matter what they think becasue they either should do as the state wants or are part of the state and shall either way support this decree.

Imperiolisom supports this act seperate of its regent and the UN delegate for the country state above has been "replaced" hence forth by Me, the Leader of the country.

I didn't understand what you just said.
Perhaps you could....uh....translate?

-- Hector, Prince Infante

I didn't understand what you just said.
Perhaps you could....uh....translate?New World Order. Screw the people, they should do what the government says, and the governments should all become like local governers under to awesome might of the UN.

I feel the need to respond to those who are using the fact that the United Nations is a unified organization to support this resolution as I find that logic to be unsound and frankly appalling.

First of all, the United Nations is not meant to be a global nation. It is a voluntary organization that nations may opt to join and does not constitute a word government, although it may often be seen as such when member nations go back and implement the things decided here in their own countries. The spirit of being a part of a voluntary union like the United Nations, however, does not mean that the goal is for all of the membership to become exactly like the others. By joining the United Nations, we as members agree to accept certain regulations and policies which are agreed to by a majority after ample discussion and dialogue but at no point do we simply hand the entire governance of our nations to this global organization. Our responsibility to our own citizens and our nation to act in their best interest is not absolved when we walk through the doors of this hall. Just as our own law-making bodies consider the a number of factors when setting laws, regulations, and policies, we as Ambassadors must do the same and act in the best interests of everyone involved (our citizens, our leaders, and this organization) when deciding how to vote on an issue. After weighing the benefit against the risks and cost, we are entrusted to come to a decision and act accordingly.

If we were to use the logic that failing a resolution that creates a sweeping policy for all member nations to follow indicates that we are not unified as an organization, we would be doing so every single time a resolution fails to pass. And then what about when we repeal a resolution passed by a previous incarnation of this body?

The key to showing that we are a unified organization is that we are able to bring up proposals that address issues that we feel are pertinent to our member nations and their citizens, have a healthy discussion and dialogue related to the proposals and issues, and then come to a decision through a vote regarding whether the proposal should be adopted. Indeed, there are times when it shows more unity to come together and defeat a proposal that is great in spirit and looks to effectively address an issue, but is outweighed by the cost and risk involved. It shows that we are looking out for all of the citizens of UN member nations and putting their best interests ahead of any other sort of politics.

Relikmere resents the implication that we are not supporting a unified UN because we have voted against this proposal. We are proud to be members of this body and believe that all of us can do a great deal of good for our nations and for all member nations if we are willing to step up and stand for what we think is the right action and not bow down for the sake of appearing to be what some see as a unified organization.

------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

As for other nations who may not be able to afford such things, I'm sure the UN can assist in making cards.

The UN hasn't got the money for this, either...

I see this just as simplification of information, and that is all. It's not a free pass to any country, pass Go and collect 200.

The resolution clearly states:

"DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as a valid identification of citizens of other UN nations on their soil. UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date. The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations."

Based on this wording, since governments must recognize these cards as valid and because they replace any sort of Visa system, yes, it would appear the possession of this card is a free pass to travel to or from any UN member nation. Also since the resolution clearly states that governments must provide a card to every citizen, essentially any citizen from any UN nation (regardless of their background, intentions, etc.) can enter any other UN country at any time, for any reason, for any length of time.

Simplifying international travel is a noble cause, but as long as we are sovereign nations, I think it is unlikely we will find a solution that protects everyone's interests. This proposal, unfortunately, because of the power the card gives for international travel, it's universal availability, and the lack of ability for a nation to approve or deny travel Visas, falls short of those protections.

------------------------------------------------------
His Very Royal Highness, Prince Dirk Koller, P.Aff.M.
Deacon Prince & Heir-Apparent of The Constitutional Monarchy of Relikmere
Head of Financial & Constitutional Affairs
Ambassador to the United Nations
Member in the Highest, Royal Order of the Deaconate

I know this might be a hard concept for some people to understand but for me such a system is very common. I live in Belgium and I'm just looking at the document informing me of the next steps I need to take to get my new electronic ID card. I had to pay €12,5 for the card and I had to get a photograph that was acceptable for the ID. It's just common practice, anyone here has such an ID, I don't even know what would happend if I refused to get it... I realy don't understand why it is unreasonable, if you don't want to prove with an ID you are a citizen of a certain country why would you want to be a citizen of that country...

Herc

I believe most of you don't like te proposal; my only advice to you is to have an open mind...
* ooc: Oh my god. Look, if you want this kind of nonsense in your own country - in NS or in real life - then be my guest. But there are plenty of countries where this kind of proposal is anathaema to the people. The state exists to serve us, not vice versa, hmm? And some of us simply don't trust government enough to believe it won't abuse the power granted by such systems. Hence the ID cards controversy in the UK right now. *

I voted for this because no one else has proposed a better proposal for a common or basic identification.

No one has yet to offer a reason why a "common or basic identification" is really needed or essential, either.

Though the proposal is lacking in details, it's a good start than nothing.

So, since this resolution is a "good try", as it were, we may as well just pass it, even though you say it's "lacking in details", and, in our assessment, has the added "bonuses" of being horribly expensive to member states and utterly unnecessary? I think not.

I'd say its better carrying a card rather than lugging a passport around especially in an organization like ours where there are 21,115 member nations and 1,965 Regional Delegates.

Are your passports made out of boulders or something? Are they really that hard to "lug around"?

Jinella waves a green passport and ID card.

Look, here's my Altanari passport and national ID. They don't seem like much to "lug around" to me. They fit in my hand, and are of negligible weight. I presume most nations have similar ones. If your national passport and ID are really a lot to "lug around", might the Altanari delegation humbly suggest...oh, I don't know...making smaller ones?

No one has yet convincingly argued that a passport and ID is really any more inconvenient to carry than this "UN card" would be, and I strongly suspect that no one will.

As for other nations who may not be able to afford such things, I'm sure the UN can assist in making cards. Passports and such are probably more expensive or as expensive. There could be a timetable for a slow transition for a UNID.

Let's address these points now:

1) The UN has no money, therefore it will not assist with the costs of this overblown venture. Nations (and their taxpayers) will need to foot the bill all on their own.

2) Passports and IDs may be as costly, but again, as I've said repeatedly, many nations would be forced by this resolution to pay for the galdak "UN card" after they've already paid for their passport/ID system! That's a double whammy that is totally not needed.

3) There can't be a slow transition to the "UN card" under this resolution, as it has a pretty clear (and, in our opinion, unfair) deadline set.

I see this just as simplification of information, and that is all. It's not a free pass to any country, pass Go and collect 200.

You're right about it not being a free pass. It's an expensive pass, and one we don't need.

- Jinella Agaranth, Ambassador

*OOC: galdak - Altanari curse word, roughly meaning "fornicated"

*Ahem* Ladies, Gentlemen, and other assorted leaders and ambassadors of this esteemed body, as the official representative of Tanular, I'm afraid I might offend some of you with my words. I don't particularly care in most of these cases.

First, many nations would not be able to afford such cards. My country might barely be able to afford supplying every citizen, but some of the nation's here actually lack the monetary and political unity to make this possible.

Second, a nation is defined by its internationally recognized borders, population, and government structure. By allowing any citizen to move across borders unimpeded, you eliminate the existance of such borders and, not only violate national sovreignty, but completely rape and destroy it.

Third, Tanular demands to know why we should make a redundant visa system? Despite this proposals suggestion that this card replace visas, many nations that our citizens like to visit are not in the UN. We would still have to issue visas and these damnable cards!

We demand that this proposal be voted down, and that its proposer be vehemently reprimanded for trying to destroy our sovreignty!

Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby IV
Official Ambassador to the UN

Dear Sir Bodsworth, fear not! Most (sane) people here share your views...in fact some of the insane ones do too!
Pop into the Stranger's Bar and have a drink on me. Apparently today's tipple of choice is a Running Rum.
Stick around...I have a proposal that might interest you in the near future...

Gohn Jawey
UN Ambassador
Blatant Bribery Consultant

Since this proposal isn't going to pass its best we find a way to make it clearer and better. Rather than striking it down without a common resolution.

I've read the comments and I agree that the problem here is language. I deem Visas as requests to enter or exit other countries, and as requests they can be denied. Thus, they are not free passes.

If nations can afford passports and visa cards, I'm sure they would be able to afford a singular UNID card. Besides the close deadline that the proposal is asking for, a transition to a unified identification system would not be costly. If the UNID is a card, how expensive is it going to be?

As for the UN not being able to afford it. Isn't there a World Bank that exists around here? (One exists in RL. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_bank, and perhaps someone should make a proposal for one if it hasn't been discussed already.)

To restate the purpose of this proposal, it's a proposal for a common identification and visa card so travel and identification would be simplified.

Just suggestions. The ones in quotes are the original text.

DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as a valid identification of citizens of other UN nations on their soil. UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date. The UNID card system replaces any sort of Visa system in use for international travel in UN nations.

DECLARES that national governments must accept UNID cards as valid identification of citizens of other UN nations. UNID cards are valid for a period of five years following their issue date. The UNID card system must either replace or be used in conjunction with existing Visa systems in use for international travel in UN nations. As visas, they still can be accepted or denied by hosting nations, but they must still be accepted as valid identification.

[Just to clarify and tweak the wording.]

RESOLVES that all UN member nations must supply all their citizens with a UNID card at no later date than the 1st of august 2008.

RESOLVES that all UN member nations must supply all their citizens with a UNID card at no later date than the 1st of August 2012.

[That's a 5 year transition.]

Fellow members of this estiemed Union, I see that you are all masked in igonrance, and blinded by the want to rule your own country without the thought of others. Yes this sound appeling, but at the same time so does world unification and dominace by a strong willed and strong minded groupd of individuals and their nations, that rule this world by unification, strong diplomicy, force, if needed, and political smarts.

WE, the people of the UN, have many things to keep up. Icluding, but not limited to, the following:

1)keeping face

WE are the UN, the worlds strongest alliance of nations ever conviced by man. WE are to be unified under the banner of the UN. If WE do not show the world our face values of unification, then they will see the weekness within it and slowly tear us appart. WE need to uphold our face and keep our cloak of unification on us, for if we let it slip, with it goes our image, and our first line of deffence and symbol of power

2)Power of the Nations

If WE unify togethor as one, then there is not stoping this galant force of nations on the world stage as WE make our charge. If WE do not unify the we are weeker. Look to Imperiolisoms modo, " as one we are week, United we are strong". This is the best example of a strong nation. WE need to be that nation if we want to protect ourselves against those who hate the UN.

3)Obligation to our people

WE need to help our people, and do not thing I am going against my ideas of the people serve the state or are as one with it, but we can help our people to have a easyer time travaling amoung our allies, all members of the UN. This will ineffect increase our economies allowing more people and goods to move throu our borders, and that we will get the benifits of technology that will spread and grow. Therefore the obligaintion to the people makes them happy, lines our pockets, and allows for development.

All these beinfits come from the use of these ID cards. ONLY by this plan can we keep face, even if a better one comes along we still need to inact this one to show the world our FACE of UNIFICATION. Then if a better ideas is proposed then we can change this one out.

The idea of we do not have enough money is nonsence, the increased economic values of our countries can pay any difference form the old system and leave us with deeper pockets. Also the cost of these IDs and passports and visas are about thes same if not the IDs are cheeper.

The people will be happy with this plan, if that is your reason for votine agianst this great plan. They will have better acces to goods, people, and services. Also they can travel more and take vacaions more cost effectivly, as they will not have to wait for visas, but just show the ID.

Terrorisom should not be the reason you do not like this plan either. Those countries that wish to harm us are the ones not voting for this idea. Those that are as one do this to better themselves and ineffect all of us.

Vote for this plan, do not let our deffences go down as well as our image and global power. Think of economic increases and a happy populations when voting for this bill, but if you vote agianst it think of the weeking of our people and nations, and think of the money and strong econ you could have had

Thank you and good day members of this esstemed Union.

Ladies and gentlemen of the United Nations, and I really mean it this time, I applaud you for your fine response both in terms of votes and in the course of this debate to overwhelmingly say “NO” to a UN ID system. I shall echo the words and sentiments of the majority of the delegates here when I say that this resolution must not pass.

I offer you an interesting thought for your consideration, although this resolution doesn’t need many more interesting thoughts. Currently most nations have a passport and visa system in place for nationals to go to other nations. One might think that this would be eliminated for nations in the United Nations but what about non UN nations? Oops! Both on the part of the UN member nation who wishes their national to visit non UN nations, and non UN nations who wish to visit UN nations the existing system must remain in place side by side with the UN card system; a total duplication of effort!

We must make a strong vote of NO on this resolution. Now a passport/visa standardization act along with a strong encouragement that all nationals in a UN nation should get passports might be a completely different story, but a card system good only for UN nations is definitely not acceptable.

I have just been informed by the Sexy Sushi Party of Retired WerePenguins, that should this resolution be defeated by a 2:1 margin or better, they will host a Sexy Sushi Party which will be free to all regional delegates (and for a very reasonable price to all representatives … hey wait I’m a representative) at the Mikado House of Sushi across from the UN building.

I concide that it is not a perfrect resolution, but at the same time it is better than we have now, as i have said before. Vote Yes and help you people and countries.

Fellow members of this estiemed Union, I see that you are all masked in igonrance, and blinded by the want to rule your own country without the thought of others. Yes this sound appeling, but at the same time so does world unification and dominace by a strong willed and strong minded groupd of individuals and their nations, that rule this world by unification, strong diplomicy, force, if needed, and political smarts.
The honoured ambassador is plainly advocating the formation of an international dictatorship here. He should not be surprised that both those who hold strongly to their national sovereignty and those who equally strongly advocate international federation find such remarks anathema.

WE, the people of the UN, have many things to keep up. Icluding, but not limited to, the following:

1)keeping face

WE are the UN, the worlds strongest alliance of nations ever conviced by man. WE are to be unified under the banner of the UN. If WE do not show the world our face values of unification, then they will see the weekness within it and slowly tear us appart. WE need to uphold our face and keep our cloak of unification on us, for if we let it slip, with it goes our image, and our first line of deffence and symbol of power
The ambassador appears to be confusing the concepts of unification and uniformity. The variety of different beings, never mind nations, in this chamber should be a considerable hint that there are many different opinions here, held with greater or lesser degrees of rationality as is appropriate to each nation. The "face" that the ambassador seeks to uphold is a mirage of his own invention; the true face of the UN is shown in its variety, not its non-existant uniformity.

2)Power of the Nations

If WE unify togethor as one, then there is not stoping this galant force of nations on the world stage as WE make our charge. If WE do not unify the we are weeker. Look to Imperiolisoms modo, " as one we are week, United we are strong". This is the best example of a strong nation. WE need to be that nation if we want to protect ourselves against those who hate the UN.
With respect, ambassador, the UN is not a nation. It is not even a supra-nation, though it does wield limited supra-national powers. To apply the straight-jacket of dictatorial uniformity to such an organisation makes little sense, nor does it strengthen it. A United Nations that marched zombie-like to a single drum would in fact be the weaker for it; our strength lies in flexibility.

3)Obligation to our people

WE need to help our people, and do not thing I am going against my ideas of the people serve the state or are as one with it, but we can help our people to have a easyer time travaling amoung our allies, all members of the UN. This will ineffect increase our economies allowing more people and goods to move throu our borders, and that we will get the benifits of technology that will spread and grow. Therefore the obligaintion to the people makes them happy, lines our pockets, and allows for development.
This is a highly debatable assertion, which many more expert that ourself in the subject of economics hotly contested during the drafting of this motion. The consensus, we believe, was that such small increase in trade and tourism as might possibly be created would be more than offset by the massive extra costs involved. Relatively few citizens of Gobbannium, for instance, possess a passport or other form of official identification, nor do they or we perceive a need for such. Under this resolution, we would bear the extra cost of providing them with something that they do not need, do not desire, and will not use. Our economy will suffer, not improve.

All these beinfits come from the use of these ID cards. ONLY by this plan can we keep face, even if a better one comes along we still need to inact this one to show the world our FACE of UNIFICATION. Then if a better ideas is proposed then we can change this one out.
We already have a better system in place, one that much better serves the only ideal you have espoused that we do not utterly reject.

The idea of we do not have enough money is nonsence, the increased economic values of our countries can pay any difference form the old system and leave us with deeper pockets. Also the cost of these IDs and passports and visas are about thes same if not the IDs are cheeper.
We have already demonstrated why your assertion of increased economic values is implausible. Given the specification of the ID card, we also find it highly unlikely that it will be cheaper than a simple printed passport.

The people will be happy with this plan, if that is your reason for votine agianst this great plan. They will have better acces to goods, people, and services. Also they can travel more and take vacaions more cost effectivly, as they will not have to wait for visas, but just show the ID.
Polls across Gobbannium flatly contradict this; our citizens reject the notion of identity cards as an unacceptable infringement of their liberties, even in such a limited case as this proposal puts forward.

Terrorisom should not be the reason you do not like this plan either. Those countries that wish to harm us are the ones not voting for this idea. Those that are as one do this to better themselves and ineffect all of us.
The naivite of this statement is quite astounding. We can think of several nations in this chamber, ourselves excluded, who would find the nation of Imperiolisom a very tempting target were they to abandon their border controls as this proposal would require.

At the back of the room the delegate leaps up so fast both women perched on his lap fall to the floor..He yanks off his headphones and throws them down stating
Blast It !,Could someone check the translator...it appears to be broken. I can't understand a damn thing the representative from Imperiolisom is saying.....Seriously,all I'm hearing is the high pitched shrieking of a gibbering baboon...and He's not nearly hairy enough to be a baboon.

He then sits down pulling the two rather dazed women up off the floor where they resume their positions on his lap.

I know that you have seen my ideas as unwanted trash to be throne in a corner. I respect what you all think, and this is one reason why the United Nations is here, its variaty. Its variaty however is not its face, Unification is.

I said that there were more things we must uphold and this variaty is one of them. I never advicated limitting this, but only putting it together to benifit us all.

Let us put philosophical and political crap away for a moment. The word nations refers to countries, in this case. The word united means unified together for a goal and cause, as one. So to look at this form a literature, grammatical, point of veiw, the United Nations is a group of nations united inot one.

Back to the politics

So why not fufile the entirety of this deffintion. WE will have to do it sometime in the near future if we do not do it now.

The benifits are high, and as in all facist states the econ is always getting better so I see no economic problem. Also if your nations as not put foward a system as such, then the IDs will be an automatic improvment, the cost will be outwayied in the futrure.

VOTE on the side of upholding law, order, unification, economic power, and civil rights to our people, VOTE FOR the proposal

On a more personal note, I can't understand what you were saying about me, as you are way in the back of the room, and i turned of that laguage translation device.

The fact that you insuld me directly is not appreciated, and you are, mabye in your country ititled to your opinion, but that does not mean it is right. We have our differences, but mabye we can unify and work together to get things done in the future, even if we do not agree on this bill.

I know that you have seen my ideas as unwanted trash to be throne in a corner. I respect what you all think, and this is one reason why the United Nations is here, its variaty. Its variaty however is not its face, Unification is.

If "unification" were the "face" of the UN the diverse peoples of Snefaldia would never have agreed to join. I respect what you think, but I don't give it any credence at all. This is not a body that is in complete accord- there are factions who disagree on implementation, on approach, and on fundamentals themselves. The UN, for the most part, is a democratic insitution, and that means people will disagree.

I said that there were more things we must uphold and this variaty is one of them. I never advicated limitting this, but only putting it together to benifit us all.

You are roundly contradicting yourself.

Let us put philosophical and political crap away for a moment. The word nations refers to countries, in this case. The word united means unified together for a goal and cause, as one. So to look at this form a literature, grammatical, point of veiw, the United Nations is a group of nations united inot one.

If you actually put away the idealism you're preaching, like you're asking us to, you'd see how silly it is to suggest that since our name is the "United" nations, we should all just agree all the time.

You are playing word games. This is not the "United Nations" in the sense that we are a gigantic nation.

Back to the politics

So why not fufile the entirety of this deffintion. WE will have to do it sometime in the near future if we do not do it now.

You make even less sense now than you did previously.

The benifits are high, and as in all facist states the econ is always getting better so I see no economic problem. Also if your nations as not put foward a system as such, then the IDs will be an automatic improvment, the cost will be outwayied in the futrure.

VOTE on the side of upholding law, order, unification, economic power, and civil rights to our people, VOTE FOR the proposal

This is highly disingenuous and frankly disturbing. That you would advocate fascism be imposed upon all nations in the name of "unity" is an affront to those liberty-loving and independent nations who make up this august body.

On a more personal note, I can't understand what you were saying about me, as you are way in the back of the room, and i turned of that laguage translation device.

The fact that you insuld me directly is not appreciated, and you are, mabye in your country ititled to your opinion, but that does not mean it is right. We have our differences, but mabye we can unify and work together to get things done in the future, even if we do not agree on this bill.

I had judged your opinions, and your speeches, and your ideas. I have weighed them against reason, sense, and the knowledge I was given, and I have determined that your ideas are not only wrong, but entirely antithetical to the fundamental basis of this organization. You can take a look through the records of the UN and see that we have united for good legislation in the past, just as we have united (hah!) against bad legislation.

Matter of fact- we are "United" right now. United against this piece of legislative trash.

Harmalan Shandreth
Ambassador Plenipotens

How do!

I cannot help but be curious about why those who have cast votes in favor of this resolution have chosen to do so? Virtually all of the dialogue and discussion occurring here in these halls has indicated no favor yet still some of our membership have chosen to support it...

Exactly, exactly, exactly!! There is very nearly ZERO support being voiced for this resolution in this forum - yet it has 1 in 4 of voting UN members voting for it (currently about 2000) - statistically significant evidence in our book that the long theorised* drone-delegates who vote YES without reading even the resolution title exist, and in resolution deciding** quantities!!!

It took this abhorrent resolution to expose the underlying systematic bias but there it clearly is...now all we need a resolution giving everyone more sex, broccoli or whatever they desire most in their heart-of-hearts to see how many NO-voting drones there are...namely none!


Best regards,

The Putzi/Putzian/Putziese/Putzerin & Putzer's Ambassador
(to the conclusively-proven-systematically-biased August Body.)


*Read the full paper in the next issue of Lies, Damned Lies! The Upper Quartile Statistical Analysis Journal published by the Werner von Wörgl Bibliothek, iPutzi Universität.
**For sensible resolutions NOT like this one.

I concide that it is not a perfrect resolution, but at the same time it is better than we have now, as i have said before. Vote Yes and help you people and countries.OH, I'm sorry, that's incorrect. However we do have some lovely parting gifts waiting for you right outside that window. The fact of the matter is, no resolution is, in fact, better than a crappy one. That's because in order to improve a crappy resolution one must repeal the original one first, then the replacement can be submitted. Now, if you'd be so kind as to step this way, I have a piece of Fine Yeldan Technology I'd like to demonstrate for you.
*Bob guides the ambassador from Imperiolisom towards the DEFENESTRATOR v2 and shoves him inside*
FIRE IN THE HOLE!
*Bob pushes the "FIRE" button.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

At the back of the room the delegate leaps up so fast both women perched on his lap fall to the floor..He yanks off his headphones and throws them down stating
Blast It !,Could someone check the translator...it appears to be broken. I can't understand a damn thing the representative from Imperiolisom is saying.....Seriously,all I'm hearing is the high pitched shrieking of a gibbering baboon...and He's not nearly hairy enough to be a baboon.

He then sits down pulling the two rather dazed women up off the floor where they resume their positions on his lap.Don't worry, you ain't missing nothing.

Brandon Flibble
The Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites

*Bob guides the ambassador from Imperiolisom towards the DEFENESTRATOR v2 and shoves him inside*
FIRE IN THE HOLE!
*Bob pushes the "FIRE" button.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Dr. Hodz watches in awe as the representative is chucked across the room.

"Man, that thing's efficient."

I recieved a prototype of this card and attempted to use it to unlock the front door of my palace after Her Royal Majesty (the missus) booted me out into the doghouse for the night after I forgot her birthday. (Yes I did wonder why there were massed marching bands, flyovers and cannons going off all day) I have seen people on tv opening doors with cards all the time and this card failed miserably so the most glorious region of The Artic Pirates will be voting no.

The Boss
Yes thats me
and dont you forget it.

As the Representative of Russmark, and after many hours of debate our legislation has decided that it is not within Russmark's best interest to have a UNID card.
The Russmark Legislation has decided to use all of its power to vote against the UNID.
And as Leader of The United Socialist States of Gaulii and President of the Russmark Legislation I too have decided against a UNID.

Our Most Humble Regrets
UN Delegate from Russmark
Leader of the USSG
Samuel Jay Lennon II

How do!


Exactly, exactly, exactly!! There is very nearly ZERO support being voiced for this resolution in this forum - yet it has 1 in 4 of voting UN members voting for it (currently about 2000) - statistically significant evidence in our book that the long theorised* drone-delegates who vote YES without reading even the resolution title exist, and in resolution deciding** quantities!!!

It took this abhorrent resolution to expose the underlying systematic bias but there it clearly is...now all we need a resolution giving everyone more sex, broccoli or whatever they desire most in their heart-of-hearts to see how many NO-voting drones there are...namely none!


Best regards,

The Putzi/Putzian/Putziese/Putzerin & Putzer's Ambassador
(to the conclusively-proven-systematically-biased August Body.)


*Read the full paper in the next issue of Lies, Damned Lies! The Upper Quartile Statistical Analysis Journal published by the Werner von Wörgl Bibliothek, iPutzi Universität.
**For sensible resolutions NOT like this one.


We're gonna need a LOT more defenestrators...

(BTW we've voted NO, of course)

Mr. FUNKEL. Who's currently voting for this, anyway?

The TALLY CLERK. Delegates voting in favor of the resolution:

Proleland [17], Prekrasnaya Zemlya [3], Blahminia [110], Fungaborg [3], Godsson [2], Landreth [3], Pok Torghn [2], Imjin [2], Neudel [26], The Really Cold People [2], Princess Jo [2], Burger me [2], Mar Sarra [3], Furymind [2], Sir samuel moore [2], Maniacal Accountants [2], Jajistan [4], Medicated Drama Queen [3], Gunfreak [8], Belphalas [4], Roburia [4], Extremation [8], Sacred Reich [3], The Great Sun Rise [2], The Xeni [2], Olesia Prime [5], Draiis [3], Villaggio Badia [2], Dr muu [3], Los Santos [4], Jinau [3], Kynoskephalai [7], Ursa Majoris [2], Lumicu [2], Nasuti [29], Nucleawasta [20], Stormcliffe [2], Narbonia [3], The Overlook Hotel [7], Nixicos [2], Anti-Goatsack [4], Godaimesville [2], Medved [4], Demondragon [2], Lazer Charge [2], Auradian [2], Grand Cavvus Islands [3], Emhonda [3], Monismania [2], Poodledomism [16], Nercc [6], Damned by Gods [19], Exrellia [2], Sleeplandia [2], Balkan Peoples [2], Northern Sea [4], The Platonists [10], Trumpetville [4], Alaiye [8], Orchistan [6], Zampoon [4], Bob the Fifth [4], Nibiru HQ [2], The Darkonian Empire [4], Alanyae [2], Nergs [3], Lord Docomo [7], Ryan Ehredt [3], Du Lyons [2], WZ Forums [2], Misplaced States [2], Tinis [9], Noble Nerf Herders [2], Raktobania [2], Obit [2], Yshurak [3], Shaneequa [5], Rainbow Six Island [2], Visum [4], My crap [2], Long Barbary Pirates [2], Chaos Types [5], Letminlt [3], Sao Parentov [4], Meriac [2], Rhomlia [3], Arkbergen [16], Visionary Elite [2], Archdael [2], Cazelia [4], Tzardom [2], Yissing Scalies [3], Harahvatha [2], TeamCrumpet [4], Renrick [5], Seacowian [2], Blackvia [2], YenRug [6], East Como [4], Boomschloot [3], Draconis Nobilum [7], Xolass [3], GreyHam [7], The Diumvrent [7], Bwaaah [2], Pathatlon [4], Animefinalfantasyx [3], Djjamal [4], Shanigami [2], Hydralia [6], Waldrech [3], Gabriels Island [3], ScottHRules [2], Faybollah [3], Minoriteeburg [2], Colbert Report [5], SlaaneshiFemdomEmpire [11], Chaos pyro [5], Forethrogenar [3], Psycotia Island [5], Roving Journeymen [3], EquiIibrium [5], Borgui [2], Cynical Alcoholics [13], Zargoza [3], Zilbeth [2], E F A [22], Colon Three [5], Darkenblood [2], Geodandra [4], Proletkult [3], Barurot [2], Krupskaya [2], Derbb [2], Neue Coloniz [2], Okeydom [2], Motor Racing [2], Imperium Hominum [2], Festizzio [2], Serbian Flaming Fist [7], Saratine [2], Smoop [3], 482 Existance [4], Veniela [2], Harko City [3], The worshippers of Q [2], Aresistan [5], Rheingua [2], Bekas [6], The Moist Muffin [3], Tyras-Sueb [2], The East Dogs [7], Klaatianus [2], ShakanDar [2], Inclement Weather [2], Castigatus [2], Pwnage ARC Troopers [7], Tylergrad [2], Plumbley [2], Cacophonous Endeavours [2], Alybia [9], The Kings Guard [2], Uddevalla[2], Garsidia[51], Inter-Regional Defence[4], Kyrakkarin[3], SlapFishRandom[3], Wicked229[11], Uber kawaii[2].

Mr. FUNKEL. Thanks. Hopefully I'll remember to ask again right before the vote closes.

One thing about Cdr. Chiang's fail-safe line: it wasn't restricted to her usual stool or table at the Stranger's Bar; it was mobile and followed her wherever she went. And that included Sammy's office, where the commander, as surrogate representative, spent a lot of her time negotiating hours of tedious and tiring work that her adviser was too horny and her "superior" to out of his fucking mind to do. It was something Susa should have realized, before he stormed in on her unannounced and uninvited for maybe the third time that week.

"What the hell do you want?" she demanded of the "ambassador."

"Hey commander, I heard about this UNID shit you guys are voting on and I want to know what the vote outcome's gonna be," said Susa.

"All I know is that it's failing and by a lot," Chiang intoned. "Unless you want me to somehow divine the actual numbers for you."

"That won't be necessary, Commander. That's why I brought Manuelo's economic adviser. Roselle?"

"Madame Roselle?" Chiang sighed, as a gypsy-clad woman entered the office, a baby-blue bandanna concealing a violent bush of dirty blond hair, hoop earrings dangling from her earlobes, and thick glasses framing her brown eyes. The many necklaces hanging low over her front jangled as she entered dramatically, giving Chiang in particular a grave look.

"Oh, dear, you have a rather harsh aura about you," Madame Roselle said mystically. "The spirits tell me you may not have much longer! Give me your palm; I must see your lifeline." She grabbed for the commander's hand but Chiang angrily jerked it away.

"Any part of you that touches me you're not getting back," she growled.

"Enough of this," Susa said. "Tell me what the UN is gonna do."

Roselle pressed her fingers to her temples as she attempted to commune with the spirits.

"I should tell you, Ambassador," Chiang said impatiently, "most people who try to predict how the General Assembly will vote usually end up embarrassing themselves. Wouldn't want the president's top economic adviser to lose any credibility over this."

"Quiet, Commander; Roselle's saying something."

"It's ... it's ... too dark. The vision is much too dark. I cannot see it ..."

"There's a big surprise," Chiang muttered under her breath.

Susa shushed her.

Roselle appeared to be in a trance; she was gazing ahead vacantly, her fingers still pressed to her temples. "Obviously the spirits are being coy with us," she said. "They seem not to want to show us anything this evening ... oh, I am getting something! Yes! The spirits are definitely trying to say something ... but it's far too cloudy ... I can't make it out ... they say ... they say ... to predict the vote ... no, it's gone. There is obviously something awful in the immediate future, something so terrible even the spirits don't want us to see ..."

"Well, now, this wasn't a complete waste of time," Chiang scoffed. "Why do you want to know what the outcome will be, anyway?"

"Dude, it removes all visas and replaces it with a stupid ID card," said Susa happily. "It's a free pass to any nation I wanna go! I'll instantly be removed from all those annoying Terror Watch Lists in foreign countries."

"Oh, Lord," sighed the commander.

"Clearly, it's pointless trying to commune with the beyond at this time," Madame Roselle said darkly, pointing at Cdr. Chiang. "This woman puts out such a displeasing aura that the spirits are avoiding us. We won't be able to read the omens tonight. To divine the UN vote, we'll have to use the same method the Jevians and the Pilots used. Bring in the idol to Baal!"

"Man, this is exciting!" sang the ambassador as he disappeared into the hallway to roll in a small golden statue, standing about waist-height. At once Roselle prostrated herself before it.

"Oh, Mighty Baal!" she wailed. "We beseech thee! Reveal to us the vote on the UNID Card Act!"

"Yeah, or I'll blow your ass up!" Susa offered eagerly.

"You are aware, Ambassador, your religion explicitly forbids idol worship?" Chiang chided Susa. "Where did you get this thing, anyway?"

"Garage sale."

"This is the same god that couldn't even light an altar!" Chiang said dryly, but Susa ignored her. He had produced a bag of rose petals, and was proceeding to fling them about the room around the statue, while Roselle continued to cry to it.

"Awake from thy slumber, oh Baal, and tell us how the United Nations will vote! Tell us, I say! ... It's coming! I can feel it! The great Baal says ..."

"Here it comes!" Susa said excitedly, rubbing his hands in anticipation.

"... the United Nations will defeat this resolution," Roselle said finally.

"That's it?!" Chiang demanded. "You brought in a psychic just to tell us the proposal was losing? I certainly didn't need the Mighty Baal to figure that out!"

"... by 78.3% of the vote," the madame added.

"Seventy-eight-point-three percent?" Chiang repeated skeptically. "That number's a bit precise for a prophecy from the gods, isn't it?"

"Seventy-eight-point-three percent," Susa said to himself. "Thar's--" (quickly running the math in his head) "--8,314 votes I gotta make disappear." Nervously he fiddled in the pockets of his baggy jeans and pulled out a few small cannisters of homemade plastic explosive. "This isn't gonna be enough!" he said desperately.

He was sprawled on the couch with Chiang on top of him before he could even think of where to get more explosives. He tried in vain to flail his arms about, screaming. "Let me go, you crazy bitch! --AUGH!!!" Chiang had struck him hard in ther back of the head.

"Under UN Resolution #168 I am required to detain you ... at least until you calm the fuck down!" Chiang spat at Susa as she frisked him for more weapons. "Mmm, nice ass, Ambassador ..."

"You better get the fuck off it if you know what's good for you!" Susa railed.

Chiang finished and climbed off the man. "You're clean," she said as Susa angrily jumped up from the couch again, breathing heavily, his face flushed with rage. "But you know what? I think we both need to relax ... how about a ... private show from me and my girls?"

"That's more like it!" Susa said, the anger having faded almost instantly.

"Great! Why don't you go wait in the Stripper Commandos' lounge, and I'll be right in?"

"Aw, hells yeah!" said the ambassador as he eagerly strode to the door.

The smile with which Chiang chased him from the office vanished the moment he had turned toward the commandos' room. Determinedly she returned to Sammy's desk and pulled a taser from a top drawer, clicking it to check. The thin blue currents danced menacingly between the pins, illuminating her maddened gaze. "Excellent," she said dangerously.

"The spirits inform me you may want to check again to see if he is wearing any explosives, for the taser may set them off!" Roselle said, her fingers back on her temples.

"Shove it, Roselle. I know what I'm doing."

We're gonna need a LOT more defenestrators...

(BTW we've voted NO, of course)

Our trebuchet is always ready for use.

-- Hector, Prince Infante

Had this resolution passed, Ardchoille would have felt obliged to apply for membership of the National Sovereignty Organisation. No, really.

Our President for Life, currently absent, as far as we can tell, on yet another drunken escapade, has authorised me to express our collective gratitude to the delegates whose wisdom has prevented matters reaching such a pass.

-- Bill Kelly, for the ArdchoilleaNS, Normal Status humans who have not inherited the propensity for magic.

Ardchoilleans;13068680']Had this resolution passed, Ardchoille would have felt obliged to apply for membership of the National Sovereignty Organisation. No, really.Ack! Don't tempt the fates, Mr. Kelly. ;)

--L.T.

Our trebuchet is always ready for use.

-- Hector, Prince Infante

Over at the Palentine delegation, Sen. Sulla lifted up his head from the desk where he had been slumped over in an alcohol induced coma. He smiled with anticipation and said,

"Did somebody say the word, Trebuchet? As much as I'm impressed with Felix's contraption, sometimes the old ways are best."

UN Law "Carve Many Things On Rock And Use As Visa" FAIL 7,171 votes to 2,046.

This GOOD!!!

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

ooc: Herconia,

It would appear that you have seriously confused the NSUN with the European Union. If you will take a moment to think about it, your resolution (as applied in RL) would require you to carry an EU ID (rather than your Belgian one) and, because you proposed to eliminate the visa system entirely, in one fell swoop would erase any national control of their own boundaries. As happily as the EU gets along, I doubt any of the EU members would be especially happy about that.

On top of that, the EU continues to use passports and visas in addition to your individual nation's ID. Your RL model doesn't support your assumptions concerning the role such ID cards would play.

And that's ignoring the fact that much of the western world stringently resists adoption of a formal, national ID at all, identifying such with a trend toward fascism and government control of individuals. Refusing to allow the state to criminalize one's lack of papers does not in any way mean such people are unpatriotic or somehow not proud of their country. Meh. Enough ooc.


In response, my regional Belgian ID card is as good as a European ID card, I can travel within the EU with my ID when using planes, all border controls within the EU are gone. Visas within the EU aren't necessary. Of course visas are still used for the rest of the world.


-----------------------------------------


Final note:

I know it was a mistake to get the Visa sentence in there, of course visas would always be necessary if only it would be for the non-UN countries. My idea was for a UNID card that would only make it possible to identify yourself in or at the border of other EU nations, I didn't want to get into this discussion about the actual allowing entrance into the country, that's a national matter, as has been said NS ain't the EU. As I said earlier the money arguement is a non issue in my view.

Well this one certainly stirred up some discussion, if someone wants to alter the proposal and resubmit be my guest.

Thanks to everyone for approving the proposal, voting and discussing the matter, it was a hell of an experience, an enlightening one for me for sure...

Herc

We'd like to commend the representative of Herconia on his very courteous and reasonable reaction to defeat of this resolution. It speaks very well for him. We'd like to give him some final thoughts, in case he ever wishes to raise this subject again.

We agree that the clause about replacing national visa systems was a serious (we believe fatal) mistake. The problem is that it would have required nations to dismantle systems already in place which they find efficient and effective. We would not have objected had the resolution provided that the ID card would replace the visa itself--the physical item recording the entry decision. That would have let us retain the decision process: the core of the system.

The second issue was that of cost. The only benefit the author ever advanced was that it would facilitate international travel. If we accept that this is the single benefit, but a worthwhile one, then it would make sense to issue the cards only to those who intended to travel internationally. If, in a certain nation, only 5% of the people ever traveled internationally, issuing the cards to the other 95% would be throwing large sums of money away. The cards could then replace passports, not visas. We wouldn't have objected to that, either.

The third issue was the specificity of the requirements for the card. As was pointed out by another member, this could have caused unneeded expenditure of huge sums of money in some nations. If we issued a national ID card that met all the requirements in the resolution except not having the UN logo, we would have had to trash our cards and issue all new ones. A less specific description, focused on the information to be included, would have been better.

We hope that the representative will continue to be involved in the discussions here and in proposing legislation.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister

In response to the most honourable Prime minister of Ausserland. We thank you for bringing us back to the core of the proposal.

I believe these to be the main issues to be altered:

- Less specific requirements.
- No obligation to issue the card to everyone.
- The card can be used as national ID and can be issued to all citizens
- The card replaces passports, must be accepted as "a" or "the" way to identify oneself in the UN.
- Nothing about visa, out of the scope of proposal.

I agree with these issues and would offer to help any attempt to make this into a resolution. It still would be a hard proposal to sell.

Tari Eleonor Fuds
Prime Minister of The Hercarian Territories

Perhaps the Herconian Ambassador should get involved with the proposals currently being drafted by Sir Cyril of Cobdenia.

ooc:
It's always nice if you can keep involved with the topic on the forums while it is at vote. Just fyi.

As a British citizen I would be interested to see you try using your Belgian/EU ID
A) to get into Britain.
B) As proof of age.
Many places are insistant on passports or driving licenses simply because cards, including id ones, are so easy to fake. I've had trouble with student cards despite the fact they have my name, photo and dob.

I also find it interesting that in Sweden you are required to register as a resident after 3 months if you are from the EU.

The British Public are strongly resistant to ID cards. It would be a card you could use as age id theoretically if you asked for one, but as passports and driving licenses are owned by the majority (I seem to be a minority as I don't have a driving license) the probability that anyone would want one becomes statistically insignificant. Most are Euro sceptics so would not want the EU flag on it. Then comes the possability of the government including organ donation symbols, your blood type, your criminal history etc etc etc.
This is from a country that is a veto holder in the EU - hardly a minor player. If they have issues with it you can see why such a diverse system as the NSUN could not swallow it. It is like the draft proposal I made for allowing citizens to travel to other UN nations to work that I based heavily on EU legislation. If I'd managed to shorten it I'm not sure I would have ever got it to pass. The EU would be the closest organisation in terms of how legislation is implemented I could compare the NSUN to, but at times they're worlds apart

Good try.

UN Law "Carve Many Things On Rock And Use As Visa" FAIL 7,171 votes to 2,046.

This GOOD!!!

Glog Firemaker, son of Glog Crushdogskullwithrock
UN Ambassador

Least popular UN resolution ever.

WE have failed to mantian face, and as I have said this has enboldened many other nations to move against us, many thou in secret.

That is not the point why I make a comment on a dead bill.

The reason is, that we failed to do this, but that in due time, somthing will come and throu this agrument we have been reborne, or at least some one what a unifed nation is

The Federal Republic wishes to express its pleasure at a most desirable outcome. We had our doubts that the vote would go our way when the roll was called, but when all was said and done, we prevailed, and we couldn't be happier about it.

Yes, members of this honorable assembly, Vice President Antigone Morgan (ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Antigone_Morgan) has defeated (http://z11.invisionfree.com/Antarctic_Oasis/index.php?showtopic=614) the Thessadorian Ambassador, 7 votes to 5 (with 4 for Gruenberg's Princess Jianna) in an international popularity contest to see who was hotter.

Congratulations to Miss Morgan; congratulations to our psychic adviser Madame Roselle, who successfully predicted the outcome of the coinciding UN vote within half a percentage point; and congratulations to Herconia, for uniting this body as no one has ever done before, and prompting it to defeat an unwise UN proposal by the widest margin in UN history.

Cdr. Jenny Chiang
Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations

The Nation of New Sequoyah wishes to express its pleasure at the defeat of the UNID Card Act; a gross violation of national sovereignty.

Perhaps in the future, all member nations will eliminate such encroachments upon our liberty before proposing any legislation.

Lieut. Gen. John Brown Gordon, (Ret.)
UN Ambassador for New Sequoyah

Yes, members of this honorable assembly, Vice President Antigone Morgan (ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Antigone_Morgan) has defeated (http://z11.invisionfree.com/Antarctic_Oasis/index.php?showtopic=614) the Thessadorian Ambassador, 7 votes to 5 (with 4 for Gruenberg's Princess Jianna) in an international popularity contest to see who was hotter.

Cdr. Jenny Chiang
Deputy Ambassador to the United Nations

I demand a recount!

Bob Flibble
Thessadorian Ambassador Enthusiast

As a British citizen I would be interested to see you try using your Belgian/EU ID
A) to get into Britain.
B) As proof of age.
Many places are insistant on passports or driving licenses simply because cards, including id ones, are so easy to fake. I've had trouble with student cards despite the fact they have my name, photo and dob.

My dopplegänger from France, "the real me" as we use to say, visited Scotland, netherland and Belgium with only his French I.D. card. As a proof of age, it worked too. But maybe it's just because I'm 32 years old ;).
Oh... And I don't have a driving licence and don't need one. I've also seen Europeans (French and Italians) crossing the turkish border, by train (that was cool) with only an I.D. card, and it worked. Turkey is not even in Europe !
Nevertheless, student card are crap. I know at least three people directly who used and are still using old or fake student cards to have cheaper tickets in cinema. Many people don't travel and don't have a passport. It's like that on the continent, I would be surprise of the oppositey in GB. Why ? Because it's free, at least in France ! Passeport means giving money!
And passeport are "easier" to fake than I.D. cards. And driving licence ? Ah ah ah, easier than anything.

Well, let's return in a real world :

The news: People from all over the community of Butumbu are celebrating the results of this vote. Fireworks everywhere! Yeehaaa!

"Huzzah! As a show of its appreciation to all the wonderful members who helped defeat this awful proposal, I have been licensed to buy a single round of drinks for all delegates who voted against the proposal at the Stranger's Bar. The Tanular government wishes this to be a sign of thanks for your intelligent decision!

"That being said..."

Sir Bodsworth grabs his glass from the podium and runs to claim a seat at the bar.

"Huzzah! As a show of its appreciation to all the wonderful members who helped defeat this awful proposal, I have been licensed to buy a single round of drinks for all delegates who voted against the proposal at the Stranger's Bar. The Tanular government wishes this to be a sign of thanks for your intelligent decision!

"That being said..."

Sir Bodsworth grabs his glass from the podium and runs to claim a seat at the bar.

I'll see your round of drinks, and raise you a week's stay at the Gaia Beach Resort (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Sun_over_Damanucus#Gaia_Beach_Resort), in Ferbenere, Damanucus. I'm sure that, after such a debate, everyone is very much in the mood for some well-earned rest.

(Don't worry about paying; I'll put it on my tab.)

Horgen Dush
UN Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus