NationStates Jolt Archive


Maximum payment differences

Sualia
12-06-2007, 21:00
Maximum payment differences
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

Category: Social Justice | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: Sualia

The United Nations,

it is clear that some jobs have to be payed better, due to being harder, demanding a better education or implicating greater responsibility.
But these differences are much too extreme. Some people have more money than they could ever spend, many don't know how to survive.
Therefore:

1. The lowest hourly earnings in each Nation shall not be lower than one tenth part of the highest one.
2. Every nation decides itself if the low hourly earnings shall be increased or the high one decreased in order to accomplish this ambition.
I have just submitted this proposal. What do you think about?
Ambrose-Douglas
12-06-2007, 21:03
Please take a punctuation/capitalization course is my initial thought.

This proposal will never make quorum is my second thought.
Intellect and Art
12-06-2007, 21:13
There is a reason why we like to encourage people to draft their proposals here before submitting them. We can help you make your proposal good enough to get a fair chance if it's going to get one at all. We can also help you figure out whether your proposal is even going to make it to the general assembly. Had you posted here first rather than jumping the gun and submitting it before it was ready, your proposal might have had a chance. As it is, I agree with my fellow representative here. I just don't see a bright and lengthy future for it. I wish you well in your future endeavors, however.
Sualia
12-06-2007, 21:38
You're right, that was stupid. But well, now I know and will better the next time.
Do you think I should submit a better version of this proposal later?
New Vandalia
12-06-2007, 21:43
You're right, that was stupid. But well, now I know and will better the next time.
Do you think I should submit a better version of this proposal later?

It's good that you've learned, but there will be no such thing as a "better" version of this bantha dung.

Ailyn Vel (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/images/Ailyn.jpg)
New Vandalian Ambassador to the UN
Shazbotdom
12-06-2007, 22:12
"The Shazbotdom Empire will vote No for this if it ever reaches the floor. We feel that this is a National Soverignty issue rather than a UN Issie."
~Understudy to the UN Deligate~
Quintessence of Dust
13-06-2007, 10:20
This may be illegal for contradicting the Unfair Wage Convention, but is in any case an idea we disagree with. Economic inequalities are only a bad thing where they work to the disadvantage of the poor: but some economic inequalities don't do this. For example, a market economy might have financial services companies whose directors receive obscene bonuses; nonetheless, absent those directors, their economy would go down the toilet.

If you want to go toilet paper some rich people's houses, I'll gladly join in, but I suggest we leave it out of UN proposals.

-- George Madison
UN Ambassador
Zyrwick
13-06-2007, 13:47
While Zyrwick supports Economic Equality generally we would oppose this proposal on the grounds of national sovereignty. Some nations want to be full on capitalist, with no regulations what so ever, and some nations want to be capitalist with regulation, and some nations want a communist system, or a worker controlled system.

There are far too many variables for the economic organization of a UN nation that this one size fits all proposal would be unacceptable. Further we feel that Nations are better able to deal with their own economies rather than the UN.

Alexei Gramiko
Zyrwickian UN Ambassador.
Altanar
13-06-2007, 20:43
While we admire your desire to bring about greater social equality, we feel that this proposal artificially restricts wages/salaries and would be undesirable to most nations, who would prefer to regulate their own economic and social policies. Therefore, we would, regretfully, be opposed.

- Jinella Agaranth, Ambassador
Cobdenia
14-06-2007, 03:29
I have just submitted this proposal. What do you think about?


Iimpratical outside of planned economy, won't help the poor by any stretch of the imagination - in fact, would do more harm then good - force countries to leave the UN, cripple the economies of both countries are foolish enough remain, meddling with national matters, and probably a whole lot more reasons why I am putting this proposal into a sealed file named "Ideas so vile that the contents can be used as an effective, but propably illegal, criminal interrogation teqnique". Opposed so vehemently that if I think about how abhorant it is my entire physical being will errupt into spasms that could be measured on the Richter Scale in a different plain of being. If I were to breathe a word of this concept to one of our nations leaders he would vanish into the ether due to the grandiose stupity of said concept. If the same paper type as this sorry excuse for a resolution was written on was used as insulation on some hot water pipe somewhere, our people would rather drink neat mercury than be associated with water. A calve bleating in the same pitch as the Sualian Representative would turn the milk in our cows udders sour nationwide. The use of the alphabet as used in this in a military base would cause nuclear missiles to explode in their silos.

I think you can take it we don't like it

Sir Cyril MacLehose-Strangways-Jones, KCRC, LOG
Gobbannium
14-06-2007, 04:11
There's room for a UN proposal dealing with obscene wage inequalities, but this isn't it. Frankly I'm not sure it can be phrased in a way that isn't also massively damaging to national economies.
New Vandalia
14-06-2007, 04:22
There's room for a UN proposal dealing with obscene wage inequalities...

Yes, there is -- over in that trash bin in the corner.

Ailyn Vel (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/images/Ailyn.jpg)
New Vandalian Ambassador to the UN
Gobbannium
14-06-2007, 05:15
Yes, there is -- over in that trash bin in the corner.
I did say obscene wage inequalities. Or would you be one of those idiots who thinks that human rights aren't a matter of international concern?
New Vandalia
14-06-2007, 05:27
I did say obscene wage inequalities. Or would you be one of those idiots who thinks that human rights aren't a matter of international concern?

There is no right to earn X just because that guy over there earns Y. That's idiotic.

Ailyn Vel (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/images/Ailyn.jpg)
New Vandalian Ambassador to the UN
Zyrwick
14-06-2007, 05:32
Yes, there is -- over in that trash bin in the corner.

Ailyn Vel
New Vandalian Ambassador to the UN

I did say obscene wage inequalities. Or would you be one of those idiots who thinks that human rights aren't a matter of international concern?

Even if New Vandalia has that position it is their right to have that position and to organize their economy as they see fit.

Zyrwick opposes this pile of dung on the grounds of National Sovereignty.

We do not have wage inequalities at all. Our economy is controlled by the individual soviets (worker's councils) of every factory, farm, whatever. Production goals and wages are set by those soviets who work with the central government and the governments of the various autnomous regions to ensure that all Zyrwickians receive what they need...and even a few things that they want.

Other nations might not want to use our system, and we certainly wouldn't want to use theirs as it would go against our values. As I said previously, economic matters are NATIONAL affairs and not a matter of international purview.

Alexei Gramiko
Zyrwickian UN Ambassador.
Rubina
14-06-2007, 05:35
As I said previously, economic matters are NATIONAL affairs and not a matter of international purview.Ahahahahaha! I'll be sure to quote you on that the next time some piece of trade legislation comes up.


Leetha Talone,
who's had one too few aspirin
Zyrwick
14-06-2007, 05:41
Feel free to do so. We usually oppose trade legislation.
St Edmundan Antarctic
16-06-2007, 17:58
If I were to breathe a word of this concept to one of our nations leaders he would vanish into the ether due to the grandiose stupity of said concept. If the same paper type as this sorry excuse for a resolution was written on was used as insulation on some hot water pipe somewhere, our people would rather drink neat mercury than be associated with water. A calve bleating in the same pitch as the Sualian Representative would turn the milk in our cows udders sour nationwide. The use of the alphabet as used in this in a military base would cause nuclear missiles to explode in their silos.

OOC: If that last example would be happening in Cobdenia itself, don't you actually mean "giant jellyfish"? ;)
Cookesland
16-06-2007, 18:50
Feel free to do so. We usually oppose trade legislation.

you guys usually seem to oppose everything because it messes with your nation's sovereignty...
Edhamia
16-06-2007, 19:17
I agree that this proposal makes no sense for an international community that has so many different members of different economic backgrounds. While I am not sure of past legislation, perhaps there could be a proposal that deals with/eliminates slave labor?

I am hesitant to say minimum wage, as that IS a national concern, but it could be within UN ability to institute a resolution that forbids the use of "slave" labor.
Zyrwick
16-06-2007, 22:17
I agree that this proposal makes no sense for an international community that has so many different members of different economic backgrounds. While I am not sure of past legislation, perhaps there could be a proposal that deals with/eliminates slave labor?

I am hesitant to say minimum wage, as that IS a national concern, but it could be within UN ability to institute a resolution that forbids the use of "slave" labor.


There already are resolutions dealing with slavery, which we are hoping to repeal.
Edhamia
16-06-2007, 22:20
There already are resolutions dealing with slavery, which we are hoping to repeal.

Do you happen to know the resolution numbers, so I can do some research before I keep discussing the matter? Also, could you tell me why you are trying to have them repealed?

Thanks for your help!
New Leicestershire
16-06-2007, 22:37
Do you happen to know the resolution numbers, so I can do some research before I keep discussing the matter? Also, could you tell me why you are trying to have them repealed?

Thanks for your help!
There is currently an effort to repeal and replace United Nations Resolution # 6, End slavery. The original resolution is HERE (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7029586&postcount=7).

The repeal/replace efforts are discussed HERE (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=524314) and HERE (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=529375).

David Watts
Ambassador
The Dominion of New Leicestershire
Edhamia
17-06-2007, 00:40
Thank you for the information. Since it is apparent that slavery and slave labor are being addressed with a good deal of dedication, I agree that the current resolution should not be supported. Minimum wage/maximum difference should be controlled by the internal dynamics of a nations economy.

My government is of course supportive of people earning a decent living wage for the jobs they have chosen, but will tackle this issue internally.
New Leicestershire
17-06-2007, 00:59
Minimum wage/maximum difference should be controlled by the internal dynamics of a nations economy.

My government is of course supportive of people earning a decent living wage for the jobs they have chosen, but will tackle this issue internally.
It's worth noting that wages are already covered by UN Fair Wage Convention (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12006676&postcount=188).

David Watts
Ambassador
The Dominion of New Leicestershire
Gobbannium
17-06-2007, 23:56
It's worth noting that wages are already covered by UN Fair Wage Convention (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12006676&postcount=188).
Indeed, I should have remembered that earlier. It's a much better approach to the problem, and my only problem with it is that it only "strongly urges" nations to do the right thing. Then again, given the results I'd hazard a guess that a tougher resolution would not have got through.
Zyrwick
18-06-2007, 02:41
OOC:

A more strongly resolution wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of passing. It took Yelda three attempts and three different redrafts in Reclamation before it was passable, and then it passed only after the National Sovereigntists such as myself were appeased with a "Strongly Urges".

The United Socialist States of Ellelt. My previous nation, which declined to to RL issues, was active in the debate of that Resolution. And while we already had much stronger legislation in our national laws we feel that most things should be left to individual nations.

We hold that positron for a few reasons. One, a poorly drafted UN resolution can have unintended consequences. Two, what comes around goes around. There was a time when the International Federalists were largely in control of the UN and passed a load of poorly crafted resolutions and once the Sovereigntists gained the upperhand...they were repealed and with extreme prejudice I must say. Three, each nation has a different economic structure, political structure, needs and goals than every other nation in the UN and it is very difficult to craft one size fits all legislation and expect it to work well. On some nations it fits like a tent, on others its five sizes too small.
Ausserland
18-06-2007, 07:43
Zyrwick opposes this pile of dung on the grounds of National Sovereignty.

As I said previously, economic matters are NATIONAL affairs and not a matter of international purview.

Alexei Gramiko
Zyrwickian UN Ambassador.

This is complete and utter nonsense. If the representative of Zyrwick is incapable of understanding that economic developments and conditions can have world-wide implications, we'd suggest a basic course in macroeconomics.

We're growing more and more tired of the representative's constantly waving the term "National Sovereignty" around like some sacred flag in every debate -- even when it's clearly inappropriate, as in the debate on the resolution now at vote. It simply devalues the reasonable concerns of those with an informed interest in the matter.

We don't support this proposal. In this instance, we believe it would be overstepping by the UN. But we'd prefer to see intelligent criticism, rather than mindless sloganeering.

Balthasar H. von Aschenbach
Prime Minister
Zyrwick
18-06-2007, 10:08
Ah but Mr Prime Minister. Intelligent reasoning works as does sloganeering.

Intelligent debate is for intelligent proposals. Which this rather isn't. But a One Size fits all solution to a issue that has many many many variables. And has already been addressed by the UN in the UN Fair Wage Convention. In fact I can think of several proposals where I haven't even said the words "National Sovereignty" at all.

Oh wait. Those were the intelligent proposals requiring intelligent debate, on issues truly of international importance.... When intelligent debate isn't needed why go thru the trouble of actually engaging in it. Knee-jerk reactions are more effective at defeating things one is opposed to.

;)

Alexei Gramiko
Zyrwickian UN Ambassador.
Quintessence of Dust
18-06-2007, 12:34
OOC:
--snip--
That's complete crap. Yelda didn't redraft it because of your incessant and bubonically irritating invocation of 'national sovereignty', a concept you have never demonstrated any remote comprehension of; he did it because it was generally agreed by people who supported the proposal that logistics required it be mild. And given the number of people (usually opponents) who thought the resolution did force living wage laws, there is little evidence a stronger one wouldn't have passed.

Can I suggest you just drop the whole 'the national sovereignty brigade are in total ascendancy' - as much as anything, I can't think of anyone in such a brigade who'd spare you the time of day. But assuming you do want to suck up to them, you should note your inane rants are probably doing their position more damage than help. If you really want to assist the national sovereignty movement, I suggest you stop tarnishing them by association.

Anyway, slightly more on topic, I'm fairly sure this is a contradiction, and there is no real way of rewriting it without making it very, very mild - and UNFWC was noted as 'only just scraping through' on those terms, so this one would perhaps not.
Zyrwick
18-06-2007, 15:13
OOC:--snip--


We would like to thank the Representative of Quintessence of Dust's comments and We have appropriately filed them in file 13. *points to rather large cylindrical object that appears to be a trash can*

Now If you will excuse me I am sure there are more things in this building that Comrade Ambassador Gramiko would like for me to--um--file there. Im sure if I can collect enough we can have a nice fire for the delegation to be able to fry its balogna instead of eating it raw like we usually do.

Vladimir Alexandrovich
Janitor for the Zyrwickian UN Delegation.