NationStates Jolt Archive

I have lodged a proposal with the UN regarding gun control, the name of the proposal is "Restrict Gun Use" I would very much appreciate every delegates support to get this to a general vote. If there is ever anything I can do for any of you, please let me know. This is a vital issue to all nations and can only be resolved through strong, binding legislation. Many member nations have very lax gun control laws which only allow illegal guns to flow over our borders and threaten our nations which have chosen to do the right thing and restrict the use of guns to legitimate avenues. Please help to bring this issue to the forefront, we cannot afford to allow this to fall on deaf ears.

Alder Spring

NO!


OCC: Yes the thread is mine.hahahahah!

I have lodged a proposal with the UN regarding gun control, the name of the proposal is "Restrict Gun Use" I would very much appreciate every delegates support to get this to a general vote. If there is ever anything I can do for any of you, please let me know. This is a vital issue to all nations and can only be resolved through strong, binding legislation. Many member nations have very lax gun control laws which only allow illegal guns to flow over our borders and threaten our nations which have chosen to do the right thing and restrict the use of guns to legitimate avenues. Please help to bring this issue to the forefront, we cannot afford to allow this to fall on deaf ears.

Alder Spring

OOC: This is something that you deal with in your daily issues.


IC: I don't see how this is something that the UN needs to concern themselves with. My nation has very strict gun control laws.

Also, it helps if you provide the text of your proposal.


Tana Petrov
UN Representative
Harem of Karmicaria

Please post the text of your proposal here, it makes it easier for us to comment on it.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

We prefer our own way of dealing with illegal arms smuggling.

All adults, male or female in our country are military trained and serve a minimum number of hours in police/military training, and while gun ownership is not compulsory, technically, all members of the national malitia, which is anyone not convicted of a violent crime, are required to keep a weapon within reach at all times.

If someone were dumb enough to try smuggling weapons into or out of our borders, they would hope to get free meals and lodging for 20 plus years in a poorly decorated hotel with no exits.

In reality, if they were dumb enough to try smuggling weapons in, they would be dumb enough to try to resist arrest and probably not survive to trial.

Crime, especially violent crime, is almost unheard of, and generally invoilves some foreign tourist who failed to read the signs at the border posted in 400 languages including iconography and animated cartoons telling them that we have alow prison population because violent criminals tend to be dealt with instantly by the people they are being violent to, and the non-violent criminals who do make it to prison are not eager to repeat their experience, and incidentally the harshnes of our prisons tends to remove the social stigma from being and ex-con. No noe doubts that they have paid their debt to society, with intrest.

In conclusion, one of the greatest fears throughout history, concerning an armed populous, is not the fear of crime, it is the fear of armed revolt bythe peasents. We don't fear out peasents, it would be hard to fear peasents when we do not have them. We have a progressive education system, and excellent medical care, and an understanding that if you do not work, you do not eat.

Our people have responded well to this, and as a result, we have absolutely no fear of our people.

Guns are not a problem.

You know what they say about outlawing guns....

By the way, here's the proposal text:
Restrict Gun Use

A resolution to tighten or relax gun control laws.


Category: Gun Control


Decision: Tighten


Proposed by: Alder Spring

Description: Recognizing: The heavy human cost taken by gun deaths around the world in nations without gun control laws, and the need to curb the use of guns by people who have no legitimate need to own or use a gun.

Noting: Sovereignty will be ceded to bring the nations into compliance with the new measures, though only on this issue.

Deciding: The total ban of hand guns, automatic weapons and any firearm not deemed to serve a purpose for sport is so important that this legislation needs to be enacted

Therefore-

1. DEFINES: Any handgun, automatic weapon, large caliber rifle, multi-round shotgun as a weapon only intended to do harm to humans. These weapons are not legitimate sport items and will be banned.

2. DECLARES: That each nation will be allowed to arm its military in whatever way it sees fit, including the use of the prohibited items. Each nation may allow its police forces to carry handguns and use the items previously mentioned in furtherance of peace-keeping inside that nations borders.

3: MANDATES: Member nations will not allow any citizen not a member of the military or a state-sanctioned police department to manufacture, possess, purchase or keep existing weapons that fall under the scope of this legislation.

4: MANDATES: Industry will be brought into compliance through aggressive use of incentives to manufacture items that are not prohibited by any national or international laws or legislation.

5: MANDATES: Member nations are encouraged to contribute to establish a fund by which affected industries may draw from to reestablish and build towards manufacturing other products.

6: MANDATES: Member nations shall enact a monetary incentive program to coerce citizens to come into compliance with the legislation. It is left to the nations to create and fund these programs.

7: OBLIGES: Member nations to come into compliance using all reasonable haste.

8: REQUIRES: Member nations who DO NOT comply to be brought into compliance through economic sanctions.

Approvals: 2 (Psycotia Island, Seacowian)

Don't make me shoot you, Spring.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

So he wants to outlaw Skeet Shooting???

So he wants to outlaw Skeet Shooting???

Um...no, that would count as sport. Please do try to keep up.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

Y'all ain't got the right definition of "gun control." Ya see, gun control is being able to hit what yer aimin' at.


http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4688/hohohahaql4.jpg
Larry McMurphy
Union Boss of Redneck Mechanics

Well, you've effectively nationalized the arms industry, as no one can manufacture weapons unless they're in the military. Either that, or you declare the entire citizenry 'members of the national militia', and loophole out of the entire process. Otherwise, article 3 effectively destroys article 2, as there would be no one who could make the permitted weapons.

There is no reason to establish an international fund for re-factoring arms manufacturer's priorities. Why should my citizens pay for your war-mongerers to become better competitors in other fields?

Your note about sovereignty is unnecessary, as is article 8 on compliance. Both are inherent in the NSUN.

Sorry, but the loopholes are too big and the mandates too imperative for this to achieve any sort of success as written. Given that no one has ever gotten a Gun Control proposal to the floor since mid 2003, and that one failed (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Curb_Illicit_Arms_Transfers_%28failed%29) rather thoroughly, I wouldn't put a lot of effort into trying to fix this one.

Um...no, that would count as sport. Please do try to keep up.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN


. DEFINES: Any handgun, automatic weapon, large caliber rifle, multi-round shotgun as a weapon only intended to do harm to humans. These weapons are not legitimate sport items and will be banned.

Skeet shooting commonly uses a double barelled over under shotgun, as such these would be specifically banned to civilians, in effect banning the sport.

Please do try to pay attention.

Skeet shooting commonly uses a double barelled over under shotgun, as such these would be specifically banned to civilians, in effect banning the sport.

Please do try to pay attention.

You fail at reading. Try again.

Deciding: The total ban of hand guns, automatic weapons and any firearm not deemed to serve a purpose for sport is so important that this legislation needs to be enacted

You fail at reading. Try again.

To the contrary, the resolution defines that a double barreled shotgun is not and cannot be defined as a sporting weapon, so the previous clause allowing sporting weapons only allows weapons not otherwise mentioned.


So, yes, Skeet Shooting would become a banned sport.

The fact that you are both reading the same passages and fail to come to the same conclusion tells me that the problem is with the proposal, not the interpretation.

Now stop your sniping at each other. That's already forbidden here.

My appolagies, but I think we might have been about to resolve this one by clearly noting that the resolution does not allow exceptions for sporting use of weapons that are listed in the bill as having no acceptable sporting use.

The fact that you are both reading the same passages and failing to come to the same conclusion tells me that the problem is with the proposal, not the interpretation.

Now stop your sniping at each other. That's already forbidden here.

The problem is definitely with the definition in the proposal: the problem being that it's very unfortunately worded.

1. DEFINES: Any handgun, automatic weapon, large caliber rifle, multi-round shotgun as a weapon only intended to do harm to humans. These weapons are not legitimate sport items and will be banned.

Working through the backwards language, we can only conclude that the listed items are "not legitimate sport items and will be banned". What is said in the preambulatory clauses is irrelevant. The action clauses establish the law, not the preambulatory clauses.

So what would be included? Pistols specifically designed for target shooting. Double-barreled shotguns and pump-action shotguns. Big game rifles. All of these are clearly sporting arms.

The proposal needs much work if it's to get serious consideration.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

It is equally unfortunate, indeed highly irksome, that the proposal chooses to define a term (albeit a cumbersome one) and then avoids its use in the remainder of the text. Various other circumlocutions are used which may be intended to have the same effect as the definition, but which any self-respecting lawyer could argue into meaning almost anything.

As Ambassador Ahlmann says, much work is needed here.