NationStates Jolt Archive

Repeal "UN Educational Committee"

The United Nations,

Strongly identifying with the principles of promoting quality in education espoused in UN Resolution #54, "UN Educational Committee",

Taking note of the passage of UN Resolution #171, "UN Educational Aid Act", and specifically its creation of a UN Educational Advancement Fund,

Recognizing that while committees can serve useful functions, assigning two to oversight of UN educational projects is not only excessive, bureaucratic and wasteful, but further poses the risk of creating confusion and inefficiency,

Believing the UNEAF to be a generally better model than the UNEC, given the latter's powers are poorly delineated, and no provision is made for funding of its projects,

Realizing that UNEC's functions are more than sufficiently performed by UNEAF,

Thereby considering that UNEC has been relegated to the status of another useless committee,

Wishing to clarify the UN's objectives, increase its efficiency and streamline its operations, through the elimination of committees that serve no purpose other than to drain member resources,

Repeals "UN Educational Committee".

Authored by the members of ACCEL

Link to UN Educational Committee (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=53)
Link to UN Educational Aid Act (establishes UNEAF) (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=170)

The Federal Republic is enthusiastically in favor of repealing this worthless and redundant quintessence of adolescent nonsense posing as a "resolution." The demonstrably brilliant opposing arguments already witnessed in some regional discussions notwithstanding.

Sammy Faisano
Ambassador to the United Nations

Despite our government's love for unnecessary bureacracy, we'll be voting to repeal this unnecessary pile of bureacratic waste.

Most courteously,

We must disagree with our learned colleagues who have thus far expressed their opinions. Quite apart from considering that redundancy when dealing with matters critical to the future of nations is a good thing, we are not in fact convinced that the organisations listed have remits which overlap at all, never mind in toto.

Consider that a careful reading of Resolution #54, UN Educational Committee, reveals it to be concerned primarily with the direct physical support structure of education; the fabric of the schools, the age and appropriateness of textbooks and equipment, the healthiness of meals provided, the availability of extra-curricular activities, and so on.

Consider further that an equally careful reading of Resolution #171, UN Educational Aid Act, reveals that it is concerned primarily with issues of the availability and, much though it pains me to even mention the matter, the affordability of education for individual citizens.

Clearly, the two resolutions are directed to very different ends of the educational services, though both have the laudable aim of improving the lot of future generations. In fact the only issue of substance which both resolutions touch on is that of the training of educators, and even then the UNEAF and UNEC would appear to be charged with different expectations of what their bursaries are intended to achieve.

In short, we believe that UNEAF does not in any measurable sense duplicate the duties of UNEC, and that the concerns raised by the members of ACCEL are therefore unfounded. We shall be voting against this motion to repeal.

Hmm.

NOTICING, that the condition of many educational facilities worldwide lack the ability to properly teach thier children, in that:

Classrooms are falling into disrepair;
Teachers are unable to properly educate their students due to poor training:
And, schools do not have sufficent funds to purchase better equipment to replace old, broken and/or out-of-date materials;

SEEING that a student's mental welfare and self-esteem can be greatly improved through extra-curricular activities, which many schools can not afford or do not fund sufficently;

FINDING that the food served in many school cafeterias is not healthy, and tastes revolting besides;

SHOCKED by the fact that many school systems lack sufficent security systems to keep their students safe from dangerous trespassers and, in some cases, themselves;

HEARING that many countries cut the budget for education before anything else to aid funding for other programs;

HAVING PASSED the resolution "Free Education" on August 19th of the year 2003;

AND REALIZING that today's children are tommorrow's future, and without proper education of these children, our future will fail;This is the bulk of the resolution, and it's all fluff, so we can safely ignore it.

THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.And this is just the classic "throw money" method of solving problems.

Setting aside the apostrophe issue, I don't so much see the two as duplicating each other, but I see 54 as being just more fuzzy-headed pap that doesn't really do anything. There are no requirements, no checks, no balances, just the tired old mantra of "fixing" problems by throwing around other people's money. Nothing is defined, no guidelines are set, there's, frankly, nothing here worth keeping.

I have frequently said that leeway in proposals and resolutions is a good thing, but this is a clear example of too much of a good thing. This is little more than a shopping list, and looks like an argument for something that should be done, as opposed to a well-crafted binding law.

The Hack fully supports the removal of this drivel.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Tindalos/UN/Verm.jpg
Vermithrax Pejorative
UN Observer
The Federated Technocratic Oligarchy of the Most Glorious Hack

We must disagree with our learned colleagues who have thus far expressed their opinions. Quite apart from considering that redundancy when dealing with matters critical to the future of nations is a good thing, we are not in fact convinced that the organisations listed have remits which overlap at all, never mind in toto.

Consider that a careful reading of Resolution #54, UN Educational Committee, reveals it to be concerned primarily with the direct physical support structure of education; the fabric of the schools, the age and appropriateness of textbooks and equipment, the healthiness of meals provided, the availability of extra-curricular activities, and so on.
and...
THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.
So it is...although this clause certainly looks great--UNEC "resolves all problems in our nation's educational systems...provides funding to these systems"-- a closer inspection reveals that...
(i) UNEC is not funded in any way...but it provides funding. It must get the money from the money tree...
(ii) UNEC doesn't actually do anything except give money from the money tree to school systems and drain resources. Despite all of the good intent (better learning environment, healthier lunches) expressed in the resolution, notice that UNEC only provides funding (from an imaginary source, may I remind you) so they (the schools) can deal with this stuff. Also note that UNEC contains no controls or assurances on how schools are to use the provided funding, it just lists possible uses. UNEC drains resources because it takes time and money to sustain, while it doesn't offer anything in return.

Consider further that an equally careful reading of Resolution #171, UN Educational Aid Act, reveals that it is concerned primarily with issues of the availability and, much though it pains me to even mention the matter, the affordability of education for individual citizens.
And earlier you cited these:
the fabric of the schools, the age and appropriateness of textbooks and equipment, the healthiness of meals provided, the availability of extra-curricular activities, and so on.
as the concerns of UNEC.

- organize international conferences on educational methods, relevant technologies, academic subjects, and any other relevant topics;
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;

This addresses the fabric of the schools and age and appropriateness of textbooks.
act as a point of liaison for any international academic or educational projects seeking assistance in the acquisition of funding, resources or membership;
This includes healthiness of meals, the availability of extra-cirricular activites, and much, much, more.
And here's the best part...
...drum roll...

solicit voluntary donations from national governments, charitable and other organizations, and individuals;
UNEAA actually has a provision for funding. So not only can UNEAA more efficiently oversee national educational systems, but it can also fund them.

Perhaps a more detailed analysis of article 5 of UNEAA and the final paragraph of UNEC would help you better understand the reasons for the UNEC repeal, Gobannium...

THE NATIONSTATES UNITED NATIONS shall form the United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems, so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches, provide a better learning environment for our children by training teachers and purchasing more up-to-date materials for the students, and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one.

There are some things that you simply need to throw money at. Infrastructure is one of these things. If you do know how you can repair a building without using money please let me know; the Anti-Tax party of Retired Werepenguins would love to implement in our nation.

This resolution does not specify how the funds are provided or collected. That is a major flaw. It throws money at a problem, but then again we are currently debating on the floor a healthcare resolution that does the same thing. It has no accountability standards, and that is a major problem.

But the real question is. Does the UNEAF solve the problems that are inherent in the UNEC? Does the UNEAF cover all the problems covered by the UNEC? After reviewing the UNEAF I conclude that it does or more importantly that it could, given the differences in the nature of the application of funds and noting that the UNEAF is more based on the proper submission of grant proposals than the top down goal driven approach of the UNEC.

So in other words I support this repeal. I think.

The delegation would like to thank the people from David6 for drafting this repeal, and congratulate them for bringing it to quorum. We look forward to supporting this when it comes to vote.

Thank you for your support Kivisto...but I don't deserve that much credit. This repeal is the work of the active members of ACCEL's UN department: Gruen, Leg-ends, David6...etc.

I would also like to call to the attention of Retired WerePenguins the following clause of Healthcare Certification:
ESTABLISHES the Care Certification Team, or CCT to collect donations from willing nations and private donors, distribute funds to nations who request it on an as needed basis, and monitor the use of the funds to ensure that the money is properly spent on the health care sector without redirection or abuse.
It isn't too specific, but it nonetheless specifies the source of the money, while UNEC considers the source of money an insignificant detail, seeing as the source of UNEC's funding is in no way stated or implied in "Resolution" #54 "UN Educational Committee" ....

Thank you for your support Kivisto...but I don't deserve that much credit. This repeal is the work of the active members of ACCEL's UN department: Gruen, Leg-ends, David6...etc

Well, congrats to the lot of you, then!

After much discussion, it has been decided that The People's Democratic Republic of Yelda will support this repeal.

Aüþgæþ Spøtyiú
Ambassador

(i) UNEC is not funded in any way...but it provides funding. It must get the money from the money tree...
(ii) UNEC doesn't actually do anything except give money from the money tree to school systems and drain resources. Despite all of the good intent (better learning environment, healthier lunches) expressed in the resolution, notice that UNEC only provides funding (from an imaginary source, may I remind you) so they (the schools) can deal with this stuff. Also note that UNEC contains no controls or assurances on how schools are to use the provided funding, it just lists possible uses. UNEC drains resources because it takes time and money to sustain, while it doesn't offer anything in return.

We would concur that UNEC is not a well-drafted piece of legislation, but that is not relevant to this discussion except in consideration of whether its defects cause greater harm than its virtues cause benefit. Under the circumstances (ignoring for a moment the existence of the UNEAA) we would have to agree with the UN membership that voted the UNEC into existence in the first place; it is better than nothing. Further, it devolves the spending of its granted money to the schools themselves, who are surely in the best place to determine which of the UNEC's areas of interest they most greatly need support with. Without such support, as the resolution itself observes, there are many schools which are simply unable to provide an environment conducive to education.



- organize international conferences on educational methods, relevant technologies, academic subjects, and any other relevant topics;
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;
This addresses the fabric of the schools and age and appropriateness of textbooks.
Respectfully, we must disagree. The first clause you quote requires the organization of conferences. Whilst these are of great import and utility to educators, they do nothing for the buildings and books present in any given school. The second clause, welcome as it is, is again only relevant if one asserts that the phrase "infrastructure development" applies to the physical wellbeing of schools and classrooms, something which is not supported by its presence in a clause otherwise devoted to academic theory.



act as a point of liaison for any international academic or educational projects seeking assistance in the acquisition of funding, resources or membership;
This includes healthiness of meals, the availability of extra-cirricular activites, and much, much, more.
We are amazed that you see the provision of healthy meals to your schools as an international project. That being the case, can we ask our colleague the Master of the Silver Hawk to speak with you concerning the excellent quality and timeliness of Gobbannium's Pizza Delivery industry?

We are still forced to conclude that however deficient the resolution bringing it into existence may be, the UNEC does cover very practical areas not addressed by the UNEAA, and that repealing it without replacing it is therefore inadvisable.

Yeah, this is all about as interesting as watching home movies from Aunt Clarita's last vacation to Stolidia. We really don't give a flying flip if you think the mandates of the two committees don't overlap exactly, or if one committee may cover some small aspect of education that the other doesn't; the fact of the matter is, the mandate of UNEC is very poorly defined, horridly written, and loaded with such trite and sentimental claptrap as to deem itself entirely worthless, even without UNEAF in place. We maintain our support for this repeal.

We would concur that UNEC is not a well-drafted piece of legislation, but that is not relevant to this discussion except in consideration of whether its defects cause greater harm than its virtues cause benefit. Under the circumstances (ignoring for a moment the existence of the UNEAA) we would have to agree with the UN membership that voted the UNEC into existence in the first place; it is better than nothing. Further, it devolves the spending of its granted money to the schools themselves, who are surely in the best place to determine which of the UNEC's areas of interest they most greatly need support with. Without such support, as the resolution itself observes, there are many schools which are simply unable to provide an environment conducive to education.

But the point is you can't "ignore for a moment the existence of the UNEAA." The question is not "is this better than nothing?" The question must be, is this better than options equally available under the UNEAA and if so is that benefit significant enough to justify the expense of the committee? I think you can really argue the first half of the question either way but I’m finding it hard to argue the second half.

Textbooks are clearly covered, “and any other approved academic or educational programs” under the assumption that someone comes up with a program for textbook funding, writes up the proposal for approval by local government agencies and the IAC to the UNEAF. Is that any better than just getting a block grant with a general sentiment to spend it on educational things and no accountability standards? Heck no, but it’s still possible. More importantly, some things that the UNEC could not support could be supported trough the UNEAF because the UNEC could only give money to “national educational systems.” The UNEAF operates on the project level, not the institution level.

Therefore I think it is certainly possible to drop the UNEC without a loss in education standards or quality of learning. I don’t think we urgently need to repeal this, but it’s loss is not a major loss and might be actually a gain, since it allows the UNEAF to operate more effectively for the monies of donor nations/organizations.

UN Resolution 54 is a fine example of excellent intentions. It's also a fine example of fuzzy, muddle-headed thinking at its worst.

[The] United Nations Educational Committee, or UNEC, which shall resolve all of these problems in our nation's educational systems by providing funding to these systems...and overall ensuring our world's future to be a prosperous one

This enshrines as UN philosophy and policy the wonderfully naive idea that all you have to do to resolve all the world's problems is throw money at them. Who cares whether the people spending it are raging incompetents? Who cares if the socio-economic conditions in the nation block progress? All you have to do is set up a nice little committee and throw megabucks around and perfection will surely follow. The road to hell is paved with legislation just like this one.

Ausserland has voted FOR the repeal.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

Yeah, this is all about as interesting as watching home movies from Aunt Clarita's last vacation to Stolidia.

Bala, Cluichstan's deputy ambassador to the UN and vice president of marketing and public relations for Cluichstani Private Entertainment Services Ltd. (http://z8.invisionfree.com/Antarctic_Paradise/index.php?showtopic=23), decides to try alleviating the boredom with a performance for the representative from OMGTKK.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9276/bala8if.jpg

Do ya like whatcha see, big boy? ;)

I must ultimately concur with my distinguished colleague from Globannium and vote against the repeal. Having said this, UN Resolution #54 does strike me as under drafted. Perhaps, we should postpone its repeal until a new resolution, covering all the points in #54 and #171, can de assembled.

From Representative Borat Sogadiev of Gilabad,

Hahahahahaaaaa!!! UN "Educational Committee"!!! Good one!!!! I laugh at this because the UN has no "Educational comittee", the UN is very....how do you say....uneducated. I think UN is very stupid, especially at that last bill that that cursed nation passed! I fully support this proposal!!! It is a very niiice!!! Why waste money that could be used on weap......hahem excuse me....(I have sore throat), anyway, money that could be used on much more important things than a non-existent "educational" commitee.......

-Rep. Borat Sogadiev

We are amazed that you see the provision of healthy meals to your schools as an international project.

No, we don't. But it seemed that you did, as you claimed lunches should be regulated by organizations with UNEC funding, which an international commmittee. I don't quite understand how this suggestion for healthy and good-tasting school lunches is a sufficient reason uselessly lob money (which, by the way, comes from no specified location) into the education system, without any provisions for using it. It's kind of like general welfare v. food stamps. Although I am against state welfare in principle, I believe this is a good metaphor for UNEC and UNEAF. Putting some money into food stamps and some into general welfare works better than putting it all into general welfare, right? Why? Because the money put into food stamps has a specified use, while the money put into general welfare doesn't. It is the same with UNEC and UNEAF...UNEC just throws money around, while UNEAF is more focused, has specifically defined powers, and specified uses of its funding. However, UNEAF being far, far more effective and efficient than UNEC is not my sole reason for repeal. I am repealing UNEC because it is no longer necessary due to UNEAF and its more useful provisions, and is now a drain on member resources.

I must ultimately concur with my distinguished colleague from Globannium and vote against the repeal. Having said this, UN Resolution #54 does strike me as under drafted. Perhaps, we should postpone its repeal until a new resolution, covering all the points in #54 and #171, can de assembled.

However, in order to submit such a proposal, and not have it deleted for duplication, both resolution #54 and #171 would have to be repealed.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The Palentine votes for this repeal. It always warms the cockles of my heart to see worthless, money draining, fuzzy thinking, usless bureaucratic morasses go down the drain.
Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

We hereby request and require that the City of Neo Tyros, in standing as the center for United Nations activities in the Free Lands of Krioval, approve this resolution with all due speed.

By the Order of His Royal Majesty,
Kaiyos Serph, the Light

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8199/accelerusgatesvilleflagny3.gif (http://imageshack.us)

The Regional Delegate of Gatesville, The Gatesville Princess of Nevadar, has voted FOR the repeal of "UN Educational Committee" after reviewing the opinions of the members of the region. This is also the opinion shared by the majority of UN voters at this time.

Hellar Gray

The Dominion of Imperial Brittanica has reviewed all the arguments for and against the repeal of UNEC and in witnessing the overwhelming viewpoints has decided it would be in the best interest to save our bereuacratic resouces and repeal this act.

Signed: Lord Booker
Dominion representative to the United Nations.

Blah, Paradica supports.

Roderick Spear
UN Ambassador for Paradica

OOC: Since the merger of the forums has happened and the merger of the in-game regions has not, I get to use my delegate vote however I want for this one.

As a matter of principle, Ardchoilleans endorse a top-heavy bureaucracy and the "throwing money" approach to education (while forcing the military to hold a fund-raising raffle every time they want a shiny new toy).

Nonetheless, even we support the repeal of this resolution.

As things stand, individual schools have far too much say in how education funds will be spent, disrupting our dream of uniform, quality State education.

(We can only be grateful that those lunatics, the Fundamentally Flawed, left us before they realised what they could have got away with under the aegis of this one.)
_________________

Dicey Reilly, Co-President of Ardchoille.

OOC:
Ok, general question. Why is this doing so well? I like this repeal and contributed to its text, but it's not that good, is it? The UN's always been quite "pro-education", in the sense of "pro-farking-with-national-education-policies"; it's never missed an opportunity to set up a useless committee; and it's often been resistant to repeals of human rights resolutions. Yet right now it's over 5:1 in favour.

Any theories?

OOC:
Ok, general question. Why is this doing so well? I like this repeal and contributed to its text, but it's not that good, is it? The UN's always been quite "pro-education", in the sense of "pro-farking-with-national-education-policies"; it's never missed an opportunity to set up a useless committee; and it's often been resistant to repeals of human rights resolutions. Yet right now it's over 5:1 in favour.

Any theories?
I have no idea. I thought this would pass, but I thought it would be close. I also thought there would be a contentious debate on it.

And even if the debate wasn't contentious, I certainly expected it to go for longer than two pages.

I'd attribute the repeal's wide success to the fact that there haven't been any good arguments offered against it, but that's just my own arrogance.

Ok, general question. Why is this doing so well? I like this repeal and contributed to its text, but it's not that good, is it? The UN's always been quite "pro-education", in the sense of "pro-farking-with-national-education-policies"; it's never missed an opportunity to set up a useless committee; and it's often been resistant to repeals of human rights resolutions. Yet right now it's over 5:1 in favour.

Any theories?

And almost 6:1 now! It's really quite amazing...as for the reason, I kind of agree with Kenny.

I'd attribute the repeal's wide success to the fact that there haven't been any good arguments offered against it.

I have no idea. I thought this would pass, but I thought it would be close. I also thought there would be a contentious debate on it.

I voted against the repeal in principal (I do not mind grandfathering harmless resolutions), but haven't raised any debates, as I voted against the original resolution and raised some of the points included in the repeal in the debate.

I share everybody's surprise.

I tried to not bring this up but I just can't do it any longer. The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites votes for the repeal, because of that damn misplaced apostrophe.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Vote's almost over and we've barely broken into the third page........

This is screaming image spam time to me. I swear, I'm trying to resist, but I don't know if I'll be able to hold out.

Say to yourself, "I may want to do Image Spam, but do I need to do Image Spam?"

Or, "Will I respect myself if I give way to this impulse to IS?"

Or you could just admit that, what the hell, Cluich will do it better.

This is screaming image spam time to me.
http://i5.pbase.com/v3/96/492696/1/50168987.tumbleweed.gif

http://homepage.mac.com/omegaosx/.Pictures/dead_thread.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b106/Yelda/40398.jpg

I voted against the repeal in principal (I do not mind grandfathering harmless resolutions), but haven't raised any debates, as I voted against the original resolution and raised some of the points included in the repeal in the debate.Wait... what?

You voted against the original, but are now voting to keep it? Dude...

I voted against the repeal in principal (I do not mind grandfathering harmless resolutions), but haven't raised any debates, as I voted against the original resolution and raised some of the points included in the repeal in the debate.

I share everybody's surprise.

Our people have always considered the representative of Mikitivity to be one of the most reasonable and level-headed people in this Assembly. So we just have to ask: What principle? We've been trying to come up with some principle that would tell us we should vote against repealing a useless resolution we opposed in the first place. We're stumped.

Travilia E. Thwerdock
Ambassador to the United Nations

OOC: Ahhh, Yelda. Fark cliches do my heart good.

Hirota votes against the repeal.

Hirota votes against the repeal."Any particular reason?" he asked, in a desperate attempt to get something resembling a debate.

"Any particular reason?" he asked, in a desperate attempt to get something resembling a debate.Yes, I'm not especially convinced that the two committees actually overlap. One talks about the buildings and security of schools ("so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches,"). The other talks about the education system in itself and ensuring that there are teachers available, share best practices etc etc.

Therefore I'm not convinced the UNEAF does cover anything within the UNEC, and thus I'm not convinced that the UNEC is useless at all.

Hopefully this gets some form of discussion going.

Say to yourself, "I may want to do Image Spam, but do I need to do Image Spam?"

Or, "Will I respect myself if I give way to this impulse to IS?"

Or you could just admit that, what the hell, Cluich will do it better.

OOC: Only because I was pretty much called out... http://209.85.48.8/9854/48/emo/wtf.gif

IC: Sheik Nadnerb rises to address the assembly. He clears his throat and assumes the most authoritative demeanor he can muster.

My fellow representatives, the resolution currently on the books is a waste of this austere body's time and effort. To demonstrate why it needs to be repealed, my assistant, Mr. Tarquin Fin-tim-lim-bim-whin-bim-lim-bus-stop-F'tang-F'tang-Ole-Biscuitbarrel, has prepared a short film.

With a wave of his hand, the sheik directs his staff to set up a film projector and screen. He waits impatiently until everything is finally set up and then clears his throat to speak again.

Fellow nations of the UN, BEHOLD!

After going through the usual previews for upcoming UN films; admonishments against smoking; and adverts for popcorn, soda, and other snacks available in the lobby, the actual film begins...




































http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6812/hasselhoff1hq.gif

Sheik Nadnerb's jaw drops at first, but then he recovers himself, his face twisted in anger.

TARQUIIIIIIIIIN!!!!!

His assistant merely continues staring off into space.

http://www.montypython.art.pl/obrazki/lcmp19-15.jpg

Yes, I'm not especially convinced that the two committees actually overlap. One talks about the buildings and security of schools ("so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches,"). The other talks about the education system in itself and ensuring that there are teachers available, share best practices etc etc.
Quite an important 'etc etc', wouldn't you say? Because one of the things UNEAF can fund is 'infrastructure development programs'. If that doesn't include school buildings and security systems, then I don't know what it would include. It's clear that the UNEAF can provide funding for the type of projects UNEC would.

One thing I will give you though: UNEAF probably doesn't apply to school dinners. That'll be a great loss to the international community.
Therefore I'm not convinced the UNEAF does cover anything within the UNEC, and thus I'm not convinced that the UNEC is useless at all.
Even if there weren't such complete overlap, UNEC would still be useless. If it does anything at all (the loose mass of drivel that is its attempt at an operative section is somewhere between unclear and unintelligible) then all it does is throw money at education systems and assume that will be enough. It has consistently been shown that that is not enough, not a solution in itself to problems within the public sector. Structural reforms are needed, checks and balances to ensure the funds are used appropriately and sustainably, and anyway, sometimes new funds are not needed: instead, systematic changes can be effected that produce results.

To assume that producing a blank cheque (it would have to be blank, because it's not clear where UNEC gets this magic money from, hurr hurr) will simply wipe away all the problems of public education is ironically stupid. There's no provision for development, no ideas on how to ensure the money is spent appropriately, no mention of any particular policies that should be implemented: just an assumption that throwing money at a problem will allow us to forget about it.

I'll admit I'm also incredibly reluctant to retain a legal document one of whose main premises is that school canteen food tastes revolting. There are limits to how much abject ridiculousness can be tolerated.

-- George Madison
Legislative Director
Quintessence of Dust Department of UN Affairs

The People's Republic of Euphromen is staunchly against bureaucratic waste, and therefore wholeheartedly supports this proposal

OOC: Actually, I found Yelda's more appealing, though yours were undoubtedly spammier, Cluich. Let's just say you're both masters of the art.

IC: <snip> One talks about the buildings and security of schools ("so they may repair unsafe schools, purchase security systems to protect our students from harm, provide extra-curricular activities to help our children's mental and physical state of being, provide them with healthier school lunches,"). <snip> Hopefully this gets some form of discussion going.

Yes, it does. (Goddess, I can't believe I'm saying this.) The section you quote allows the UN to fund individual schools directly, completely bypassing the national government, which has both the responsibility and the right to set policy on these matters. (Am I really going to put a ...) This is a clear violation of (yes I am!) national sovereignty (NatSov argument! I did it!), a shameless example of micro-management (on a roll! OH yeah!) and yet another manifestation of the UN's apparent belief in itself as the supreme Nanny-State! It should never have passed and, regardless of its duplication or lack of duplication with the UNEAF, the sooner it's repealed the better.

(The things I'll do to keep an argument going. Couldn't we just adjourn to the Bar? This NatSov stuff is thirsty work.)
____________________

Dicey Reilly, Co-President of Ardchoille.

OOC: Actually, I found Yelda's more appealing, though yours were undoubtedly spammier, Cluich. Let's just say you're both masters of the art.


OOC: I, at least, put mine into some sort of context, even if that Hoff pic is uber-disturbing. ;)

And you gave a natsov argument! http://209.85.48.8/9854/48/emo/roflma.gif Damn...my belly hurts now.

Because one of the things UNEAF can fund is 'infrastructure development programs'. If that doesn't include school buildings and security systems, then I don't know what it would include. It's clear that the UNEAF can provide funding for the type of projects UNEC would.

One thing I will give you though: UNEAF probably doesn't apply to school dinners. That'll be a great loss to the international community.Does it include "extra-curricular activities" as well?

And I can think of plenty of things that infrastructure development programs could include which would not be school buildings or security. Transport links, roads... electricity and other utilities....basically anything essential to the operation of a school. It's debatable if security systems are "essential" - depends on your nation I guess. I imagine having a building suitable for education could be considered essential. :Dis a clear violation of (yes I am!) national sovereignty (NatSov argument! I did it!)Damn you national soverignists. ;) ...and yet another manifestation of the UN's apparent belief in itself as the supreme Nanny-State!Besides, what's so wrong about being a nanny state? Someone has to keep those retarted governments from causing too much damage.

OOC: Yes my arguments against this are pretty flimsy. It's called trying to play devils advocate. I'm doing a pretty poor job of it.

Does it include "extra-curricular activities" as well?
Probably not. But again, if you'd actually bothered to read UN Educational Aid Act, you'd have noticed there's provision for 'other educational programs'; I don't see why extra-curricular activities of genuine educational value couldn't be funded through such (although extra-curricular school activities are of pretty marginal interest to the international community anyway).
And I can think of plenty of things that infrastructure development programs could include which would not be school buildings or security. Transport links, roads... electricity and other utilities....basically anything essential to the operation of a school. It's debatable if security systems are "essential" - depends on your nation I guess.
So your argument here is that UNEAF is more comprehensive than UNEC. Funny, then, that that's the argument the repeal uses.

-- George Madison
Legislative Director
Quintessence of Dust Department of UN Affairs

Besides, what's so wrong about being a nanny state?

Pretty much everything.

So your argument here is that UNEAF is more comprehensive than UNEC. Funny, then, that that's the argument the repeal uses."More comprehensive" does not instantly render the UNEC irrelevant. I'm saying UNEAF does A, B & C, but it doesn't do X, Y and Z - which UNEC does do. The issue is therefore if what UNEC does is worth keeping - which is school dinners, security and extra curricular activities.

I'm guessing most will say no <shrugs>

Pretty much everything.I have a vision of a cabal of female pensioners secretly pulling the strings of every government on earth. Very x-files.

<sigh> I'm just going to quit whilst I can.

"More comprehensive" does not instantly render the UNEC irrelevant. I'm saying UNEAF does A, B & C, but it doesn't do X, Y and Z - which UNEC does do.
But I've already said - and you haven't rebutted - that UNEAF does X, Y and Z too, and further than UNEC doesn't particularly do them.

If you want to stimulate a debate, it's going to require your actually participating in it.
The issue is therefore if what UNEC does is worth keeping - which is school dinners, security and extra curricular activities.
I've already pointed out that those things can probably be funded by UNEAF anyway. Security systems and cooking facilities form part of infrastructure; extra curricular activities, if of reasonable merit, could easily qualify as 'other educational programs'.

And no, I don't think it's worth keeping on a committee to make sure school macaroni is lump-free.

-- George Madison
Legislative Director
Quintessence of Dust Department of UN Affairs

I am proud to announce that
Repeal "UN Educational Committee" was passed 9,814 votes to 1,943

The people of David6, the members of ACCEL, and the (surprisingly) overwhelming majority of residents in the United Nations that don't agree with throwing resources and time into the operation of another useless committee, celebrate the passing of this resolution.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6812/hasselhoff1hq.gif

Sheik Nadnerb's jaw drops at first, but then he recovers himself, his face twisted in anger.


Clutching at his eye sockets, "Benji" stands up and yells...

Where, in the name of Zeus's BUTTHOLE, did you get that wholly disturbing clip? My eyes, MY EYES! AAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIGH!

"Benji" Royce flees the chamber, no longer caring that the resolution passed as he'd voted -- caring only to never...see...again.

Junior Minister Caxton Smith and Intangible UN Page Kevin Phillips-BONG (slightly silly) chase after the Minister, leaving Junior Page Carol Parma to stammer in front of the microphone.

Uh...the, uh...Intangibly--no, uh, Intangible Delegatories, no...uh...the Intangible Delegation, yes, that's right, DeleGAtion. The Intangible Delegation expressed gratitude that this resolution has passed with...uh...a...minmum of...things. Yes. Things. Right. We cede the floor.

Carol dashes after her compatriots, leaving a burnt orange sign with white letters reading "delegates away, please stand by" in the delegate's chair.

i comply

i comply

do you really? we had no idea.

Oh, congrats to everyone who had a hand in authoring this.

Enough with the image spam! (I know. Just for that, I'll get more image spam.)

Thank you, Atlantar. I'll relay your congratulations to Gruen, Leggy, etc...

i comply


OOC: Dude, you don't have to do this anymore. I put it in my sig for you to save you the trouble.

I would like to point out that under an unwritten protocoll, the author of any successful repeal resolution that results in the termination of a UN committee must pay for the retirement/redundancy party for the outgoing gnome staff members. Under gnome tradition that event can often last weeks at the finest five star hotel they can find. Naturally every delegate and rep who voted for the repeal are also invited, along with a guest of the delegate/rep.

We thank David6 for going bankrupt in an attempt to pay for the celebration.

I would like to point out that under an unwritten protocoll, the author of any successful repeal resolution that results in the termination of a UN committee must pay for the retirement/redundancy party for the outgoing gnome staff members. Under gnome tradition that event can often last weeks at the finest five star hotel they can find. Naturally every delegate and rep who voted for the repeal are also invited, along with a guest of the delegate/rep.

We thank David6 for going bankrupt in an attempt to pay for the celebration.

But we already made all the arrangements for the retirement/redundancy party! It's to be held at the guest quarters of the Underground Museum of Abandoned Mining at Dirge Hill in Oldwillow Province! They shooed the bats out and everything! They just made sure the emergency oxygen containers are full! Ordered more hard hats, too! And the condemned C-rations and bottled water have been ordered!

As for lasting weeks at a time, no sweat. It sometimes takes that long to dig the guests out anyway.

(Uh... forget I said that part about the C-rations being condemned. The boss says I wasn't supposed to mention that. Says the gnomes will never notice.)

Luigi P. O'Rourke
Special Assistant to the Ambassador

Thank you, Atlantar. I'll relay your congratulations to Gruen, Leggy, etc...

Thanks, much appreciated. One minor thing, though....it's Altanar, not Atlantar.