NationStates Jolt Archive

We've been having this discussion on a couple of offsite forums and a picture is starting to emerge as to why the regulars are not as active in the UN Forum these days. I thought it was time we discussed it here to get some feel for why new and intermediate players are not as active right now. Activity here started to drop off in December and most of us assumed that it would pick up again after the holidays. Well, it hasn't. I'd like for us to use this thread to figure out why there has been this drop in activity and find ways to address it and hopefully correct it. I would add that this seems to be affecting the offsites as well. So it's not just a drop in UN Forum activity, but a drop in all UN-related activity.

Comments please.

Other: Aberdeen and Charis are merging right now. I played a leading role in the merger committee, I've spent a large portion of the last week getting stuff set up on the new forum, and I've decided to write the new Constitution. Otherwise, I'd already be back in the community

Though there is also a real-life factor (more time-consuming gf than the last one) and the fact that I only officially unretired a month ago.

I draft everything on the offsite forums and I really don't like the way the debates go. Especially when you get those drive by posters with their "Dis is teh suxxorz!". Annoying. Then there's how unreliable jolt has been since just before the holidays. I'm actually surprised that I was able to get here and post this and it didn't take 5 hours to load the page.

As I've said on another forum, there's a lot of idiocy that happens here, which is a major deterrent for me. People who don't actually take the time to read and understand things, people who insist on flaming and feeding the trolls, although, that hasn't been happen much on the UN forum.

Then there's the social aspect. You can't really get here. You can on the offsite forums. I know that sitting at a computer typing away isn't really socializing, but for some of us, it's the closest thing we get on any sort of regular basis. However, the offsite forums are dying as well. Okay, they may not be dying, but activity there has been limited.

There are too many offsite forums. Maybe if we limit the amount we draft there and start bringing our rough drafts here more often, we could get the activity to go up, at least a little. New players need to be encouraged, guided and shown what is acceptable and what is not. Think of them as a child who needs to be taught. I'm not saying that we coddle them, just help them out a little. There are some that could make a better attempt at being a little nicer, me included.

However, the offsite forums are dying as well. Okay, they may not be dying, but activity there has been limited.
Really only the UN related ones though, like UNOG and NSO. The "regional" offsites like Texas and IDU seem about normal. Of course a lot of the people who post on them are not that active in the UN.

Edit: And it took approximately 10 minutes to get this posted. Plus, I got shown this:
This post is a duplicate of a post that you have posted in the last five minutes. You will be redirected to that thread.
Even though the post had never been submitted the first time because the operation had apparently timed out.

Really only the UN related ones though, like UNOG and NSO. The "regional" offsites like Texas and IDU seem about normal. Of course a lot of the people who post on them are not that active in the UN.

The Texas forum is slow. There isn't that much activity on it. Honestly, I think that UNOG has seen more activity than Texas has. DEFCON activity has been jumping up and down recently. On day you can't stop the flow of activity, the next it's completely dead. NSO has been seeing a lack of activity for a while now. I have to say that I am not surprised by any of this. Disturbed and annoyed, yes. Surprised, no.

Let's break the forums down a little.

NSO - No one really drafts anything here. A few of us pop in to give our opinion on what's currently at vote and then leave until there's something else at vote. The most activity there has been in the fun and games forum.

UNOG - Again, no real drafting here. We socialize, half pay attention to the at vote threads and complain about the state of the UN. Most of the noggers don't even bother with jolt. And no, I'm not complaining about what we do there, just stating some facts.

DEFCON - We don't really have much left to do. The two major things that we had going for us have passed. Sure, we're working on stuff, but most seem to be losing interest in that.

As for the "regional" forums, sure, there's going to be activity there. Still, the number of posts that people make on a day to day basis is declining. People are tired of the same old thing. A few of us have tried to stir things up both here and on offsite forums, but it was only successful for a short period of time. There are a few 'regional' forums that have not seen a decline in activity, but those are forums for really big regions.

I think for the most part, this decline in activity comes down to people being bored and frustrated.

Well, I've never posted enough to be a "regular", and since I like to switch posting nations when I switch UNs, I seem even less active than I am. RL is a big hit, since I can't get onto Jolt from work anymore. And when I can get onto Jolt, it may not be up. Also, a lot of proposals aren't that interesting, and even when they are, the debate on them gets old long before they get voted down (or up). It's multiple factors.

Edit: And the fact that my browser hung when I posted this and I had to restart didn't help.

Well, when that happens, you need to copy-paste your topic into a .txt program or a .doc (word or notepad can save those two filetypes). Than, you just copy-paste it back in when the browser isn't hanging.

Anyways, we need to have something happen with the UN....

The problem with having something happen with the UN is that coming up with new and interesting ideas is getting increasingly difficult. And when someone does come up with something new and even mildly interesting, the hype only lasts for so long. Things quickly become tired and boring. Especially when it's the same arguments that you hear over and over again.

Tell Reclamation to move back to the Jolt UN forums. Than we can start getting the people to pay attention to the UN.

Could that work?

Tell Reclamation to move back to the Jolt UN forums. Than we can start getting the people to pay attention to the UN.

Could that work?

No, that wouldn't work. The whole purpose of Reclamation is to help people draft their proposals away from the lion's den that is jolt. It gets people away from the not so nice and less than constructive "help" that some people are more than willing to give.

Reclamation was a good idea, but bringing it to the UN forum isn't going to help their purpose.

The problem with having something happen with the UN is that coming up with new and interesting ideas is getting increasingly difficult. And when someone does come up with something new and even mildly interesting, the hype only lasts for so long. Things quickly become tired and boring. Especially when it's the same arguments that you hear over and over again.

True. The current proposal, IMO, is more interesting than most, even though Durko can't support it (OOC: I should quit joining my evil nations to the UN, but evil works better in my region), but by now the debate is old and tired. It's even worse when the resolution is old and tired to start with.

And that is most likely one of the reasons that people have stopped bringing their drafts to the UN forum, ignoring for the moment the offsites. If you draft it here from the beginning, then by the time it's finished and ready to be submitted, most of the debate is done. If it makes it to vote, there's nothing left to talk or debate about.

I prefer the debate to be done by the time it goes to vote.

I don't. I prefer the debate to be done during the debate. Maybe some voluntary UN rules would be better.

1. Defenestrations are to be considered against diplomatic morality, and as such, the defenestrator will also be defenestrated, with the second defenestrator not being defenestrated.

2. The person who makes the topic will show topics that have been debated enough times to get a general opinion about it in the first post.

3. Unknown

Newbies are usually scared of this thread from what I can see, and many of them don't read more than the first post, or if they read the whole thing, they see that they get bad things happened to if they make a single mistake. It shouldn't be like that. We need to be more accepting as a community.

So, we've finished making the world a better place, one resolution at a time?

If only. Still, if we're currently out of inspiration for proposals, there must be other UN-ish things for us to do.

Suggestion 1: Conventions (not the kind with drunks in funny hats, the other kind).

A Convention on anything would need drafting and debate from those who liked the idea, but wouldn't need virulent opposition, because if you don't want to be a signatory, you just don't sign. No vote, so not binding, so no games mechanics issues. After, say, a month with no changes, the final form could be posted by the thread starter with a list of those nations that consider themselves signatories. Update by TGing the thread starter.

Suggestion 2: "Requests" resolutions. A thread in which anyone with an idea of a topic they'd like to see a resolution on posts it, totally unworked, unphrased, unlegalled, un-anythinged. The way Fris did with "No UN Armies".

It would have to be kept to fairly short posts -- "I'd like to see a resolution about XXXXXXX because YYYYYYYYY". Then, if a regular recognised that this was already covered under an existing law, he could just post to that effect -- "Covered. See Res ZZ". The idea-poster could then edit his own post to say as much and the answer-poster could delete his.

The outcome would be a thread that listed ideas so that others could do the hard work. Plus, it might serve as yet another way of keeping people from illegal or duplicate proposals.

(Take in here long rant about impossibility of getting anything done if you can't bloody post!!!!111!!)

Whatever. Thanks for starting this discussion, Yelda.

Col. Mustard in the Library with the Lead Pipe.

Suggestion 2: "Requests" resolutions. A thread in which anyone with an idea of a topic they'd like to see a resolution on posts it, totally unworked, unphrased, unlegalled, un-anythinged. The way Fris did with "No UN Armies".

It would have to be kept to fairly short posts -- "I'd like to see a resolution about XXXXXXX because YYYYYYYYY". Then, if a regular recognised that this was already covered under an existing law, he could just post to that effect -- "Covered. See Res ZZ". The idea-poster could then edit his own post to say as much and the answer-poster could delete his.

The outcome would be a thread that listed ideas so that others could do the hard work. Plus, it might serve as yet another way of keeping people from illegal or duplicate proposals.The problem with that idea is you get people who come in and say, "write it yourself." (like me (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12179064&postcount=3))

The problem with that idea is you get people who come in and say, "write it yourself." (like me (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12179064&postcount=3))
I think it's about tone. Saying "I have an idea but I'm not sure how to make it work" or "what do people think about...?" is different to stomping in haughtily, telling everyone what they're doing wrong, and then expecting them to do something for you (as in the example you linked). That former approach would probably elicit more helpful responses.

Well, Real Life has taken up a lot of my time, and is pilfer more, but I've noticed several other phenomena. Some, like the off-site drafting and mistreatment of newer players, is nothing new.

I actually think it's better for nations to come onto Jolt rather than Reclamation. Sure, it's a little more friendly that the Jolt forums, but there's a harshness that's lacking that I think really helped the UN. My first draft proposal, some gobbledeygook about national libraries, was posted on Jolt. I was promptly told by several players that it was duplication, so I laughed, said thank you, and let it die.

If more drafting was done on Jolt, more players would come with legitimate criticism and support. Veterans like Ausserland and Waterana set the bar for how to treat new players, and it can't hurt to see more of that on the forum. It gives people a feeling that it's not all bad.

Another thing I see is the extremely high calibre of the debates. Yes, I did say that. I believe in reasoned, intellectual discourse and decry those drive-by posters for not reading the proposal and thinking critically, but it's offputting to try and wade through pages of confusing and legalistic arguement, trying to seperate the in-character from the out-of-character.

That's not to say that I think debates should be dumb. I'm just afraid they're turning into something akin to actual law debates, with people having need of degrees in UN history and UN law. I'd be posting more often, but it's taxing for me to read through three pages of back-and-forth arguements, I don't have the patience or the devotion. I'm willing to wager a great many more possible players would say the same thing. That's what drove me away from the UN at first.

My final thought is something that came to mind the other day. I think it was something someone said on the UNOG forum, that you can't get a proposal to quorum without a TG campaign. That's another hobble. There might be some very good proposals that should get to vote and be debated, but the seemingly insurmountable 125 endorsement count deters many.

Of course, that's just something I was thinking about. It's probably well enough that the high endorsement count discourages illegal and idiotic proposals, but it's very difficult to have an actual dearth of good, at-vote debates whent things are held up in quoruming.

That's about it.

I don't think any person has joined Reclamation without coming through jolt, so I don't think that forum contributes much to the decline of activity here. Reclamation was set up as an alternative to jolt for those looking for one, not as a rival. I just can't see a small forum like Reclamation having any real impact on activity levels in a huge forum like jolt. The harshness isn't really needed to be honest. If you had come onto Reclamation with your library proposal, we would have told you it was a duplicate too.

I agree with you about the debates. That is one of the reasons I don't post in at vote threads much these days past 'Waterana is for or against'. I don't understand a lot of the legalistic stuff, and while I admire those who can put all that information together, don't feel qualified enough to join in. Hell, I've abstained on a few resolutions in the past because I couldn't understand what they actually said and did.

One thing that could be a factor is that we don't seem to have real contraversial issues these days. Most subjects we're voting on are ones most people will agree with, or meh about. We haven't had any real ding dong battles since Abortion Rights was repealed and replaced. Though that mess took a lot out of most of us and resulted in Reclamation's birth, so maybe it isn't the best example, but you get my drift.

My own reduction in activity is down to another game, which I'm really starting to get into and enjoy now, and also because I do prefer to draft on Reclamation. Though I am biased in that regard because I started the place. If I don't use it, how can I ask others to. Nearly all the people who would give constructive advice on something I write are members there anyway, so it seems a waste to double efforts.

No offence, but some of this stretches into overanalysis.

1. NS numbers are going down anyway. Under 90,000 nations, under 27,000 UN nations, maybe 20 fewer proposal approvals needed than had been the case some months ago. I'm not saying "OMG NS is dying", at all. It still has lots of active members: just fewer, seemingly. And perhaps it's a correction from a time of unusually high activity, or will be reversed in time; I haven't been playing long enough to say. In any case, it's not surprising there is a knock-on effect on forums (and this will be to some extent amplified in the UN forum, because fewer active regional discussions take place).

2. So it's been less active for the last couple of weeks. It's also been Christmas, New Year, and the start of term for the last couple of weeks. Not surprising that activity drops off, at all. If activity remains low in a few months, or during the summer holidays, then maybe there is a problem to be diagnosed. As it is, this seems something of an overreaction.

3. I agree to some extent that we're dealing with less contentious issues now. Much as I like the proposals, chemical transportation standards or repeals of redundant resolutions don't inspire a great deal of debate. But then, we've just had proposals on torture, sexual privacy, capital punishment, drugs, minimum wages...how many of those issues form some of the major debates of modern discourse? So we don't talk about abortion or euthanasia or prostitution anymore: yes, but there are plenty of other areas of disagreement.

4. The snotty part. Activity isn't an abstract good. The debate on Child Pornography Prohibition was plenty active. Is there anyone who's yet recovered from the headache of it, though? Same with the Anti-Terrorism Act, the abortion debates, some others. Why are we bemoaning lower amounts of pointless drive-by interjections - we should be celebrating it!

I'm broadly in agreement with Gruen's points, but I'd also like to add a few.

Speaking from experience...

For those of you who are bored with drafting proposals, TG campaigns, and debates; take a break. It's not a crime to be inactive for a while if you need some time to recover from working too hard on a game. And keep in mind that if playing the game becomes a job that you don't really want to do, but still feel responsible for, you're essentially shooting yourself in the foot. Even if you have a lot of social connections here, when the game is no longer a game for you, it's going to seem less valuable and interesting, and as a result your activity will drop.

Also, take up new challenges, perhaps exploring a new aspect of the game. Get involved in something that you really believe in, and find something that is stimulating and interesting to work on.

If you want to see more activity, invite RL friends to play, and make sure that you are welcoming and helpful when a new player comes to your region. Making the initial social connection is what helps people stay in the game, and if they don't have that connection, the vast majority of them won't become active players, let alone stay active.

As far as the Jolt and offsite activity goes, I'm not concerned. The political and social winds will shift, resulting in periods of low activity. And eventually, some of the forums will die entirely, much like political parties in real life. They (or at least their principles) will also probably see a revival at some point, much like political parties in real life. That's because the same social dynamics are driving both the game's political winds and RL political winds. That's why I find this game to be such a good political simulation.

There are undoubtedly a lot factors involved in the decline of activity. And there's a lot of good commentary here. But...

Yesterday evening, I typed in a response in this thread. When I clicked the Preview button, what did I see? "Database error." I went away and did something else. A while later, I decided to try again. When I tried to access the forum, "Database error". Never knowing when to quit, I tried again a couple hours later. When I clicked on the thread title on the forum page, it took 4 minutes to load the messages. To go back to the UN forum? 6-1/2 minutes. (Not a factor of connection speed, either. Unresponsive server.)

My perception is that both the "Database error" problem and the slow response problem have gotten much worse since right before the holidays. I'm hooked on this game, so I keep trying. How many people who don't suffer from my addiction would? I think complaining about a free service is chintzy, but I also think this is a key factor -- probably the critical one -- in the activity drop-off.

Yes I agree with Ausserland. When I'm going through all my bookmarked NS forums, sometimes I just skip this one.

I don't think any person has joined Reclamation without coming through jolt, so I don't think that forum contributes much to the decline of activity here. Reclamation was set up as an alternative to jolt for those looking for one, not as a rival. I just can't see a small forum like Reclamation having any real impact on activity levels in a huge forum like jolt. The harshness isn't really needed to be honest. If you had come onto Reclamation with your library proposal, we would have told you it was a duplicate too.


I'm not here to bash Reclamation, it's a great resource. I actually did post another proposal that I decided not to pursue on Reclamation recently.

I think the success of off-site forums comes in large part from the unreliability of Jolt. When Jolt goes down, people go off-site.

I find myself concurring with Gruen. I recall the Activity Question being asked many times, and always being answered. The game has a tendency to fluctuate, with old players leaving and new players coming. We're probably caught in the middle of one of those times.

It'll probably all work out in the end, and we'll all have icecream. Now that's what I call a sticky situation!

No offence, but some of this stretches into overanalysis.


2. So it's been less active for the last couple of weeks. It's also been Christmas, New Year, and the start of term for the last couple of weeks. Not surprising that activity drops off, at all. If activity remains low in a few months, or during the summer holidays, then maybe there is a problem to be diagnosed. As it is, this seems something of an overreaction.



This is largely my explanation. I've been busy with family holiday stuff and work stuff (when it rains -- winter -- work is busier than naught). :)

This is largely my explanation. I've been busy with family holiday stuff and work stuff (when it rains -- winter -- work is busier than naught). :)

Hi Mik! We were just talking about you elsewhere. That's almost frightening that you appeared so quickly. (Not really, but cool nonetheless)

For me, I personally prefer the debates that have some heat to them. Some issue that makes everyone dig their heels in and bear down. I even enjoy some of the one post ponies in a sick sado-masochistic kind of way.

There have been some decent debates of recent, but I find myself somewhat bored, anyways. Why? For some godawful reason that I haven't quite figured out entirely, I've been trying to remain nice, civil, and rational. It's not as easy as it sounds, but, like a few others, I kinda figured that the vitriole that some of us direct at the less than wary poster, so I tried to tone it down. It hasn't helped yet, but it hasn't been that long, either.

Things'll pick up in time. I don't have faith in much, but I do have faith in the human desire to interact, create and resolve conflict, and argue/debate/discuss/whatever. We'll eventually be swamped by whole new crowds of nations that half of us think are brain-damaged or insane, and they'll all think we're a bunch of fossils who should move out of the way to allow the new generation more room. It'll be fun. Trust me.:p

The problem with that idea is you get people who come in and say, "write it yourself." (like me (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12179064&postcount=3))

Yeah, but not everyone inside the UN building is a crusty ol' bastard like Bob Flibble. (Some of the Building Management staff, for example, are ever so helpful.)

Obviously it would be good if everybody wrote their own proposal. But some people just aren't confident enough, no matter how much help they get; some people don't want to (or can't) spend the time, but think up interesting topics, nonetheless; and then there are the people who can write proposals, but can't guarantee enough computer access to defend them in the GA or even to reply in timely fashion in a drafting thread -- so they don't write them, because to do so and then just abandon the thing would seem impolite.

Add this to the folk who can write 'em and have loads of time on their hands, but can't for the life of them think of anything else for the UN to mull over, and I think there's a niche audience out there.

My problem with being really active is that everything I think of saying or posting so as to pick apart (silly or illegal proposals) gets posted hours before me, probably by some one on the other side of the Prime Meridian.


Also, the stuff that shows promise if it makes the journey to these forums for drafting never gets posted because 1) the writer gets bored or scared off from fear of having it deleted by a mod once submitted or 2) is so blatantly illegal the thread is a waste of space in the forum.

I wish I could've voted for two options in the poll. Real life has been keeping me really busy lately, but that should be getting back to normal soon and I'll be more active.

The Jolt problem is an issue too, though. Like Auss, I don't like complaining about a free service. But it is a factor.....when you try repeatedly to do something and get told to defenestrate yourself every time by the server, eventually you give up.

I wish I could've voted for two options in the poll.
You could have, It's a multi-choice poll.

You could have, It's a multi-choice poll.

*slaps self on forehead*

1. NS numbers are going down anyway. Under 90,000 nations, under 27,000 UN nations, maybe 20 fewer proposal approvals needed than had been the case some months ago.
FYI, (and somewhat off-topic) this isn't entirely due to people wandering off.

Thanks to the new Influence rules, a lot of UN multi cheaters have found it harder to enjoy their region griefing, as their new nations lacked the influence to have success as invaders. In addition, mods have more time due to not having to deal with region griefing, so we've been pursuing UN cheating more aggressively. Since September 2006, we've ejected over 1400 cheater nations. That's a lot.

We've also gotten more aggressive enforcing the puppet-flooding rules. Players who would routinely create 100-300 puppets (no, I'm not kidding with those numbers) for a regional invasion are not doing so nearly as much. Those puppet armies have mostly died off or been deleted (mod deletions account for nearly 2000 nations in the same period, though some of those overlap with the UN multi ejections).

I think we've actually lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-20 major cheaters, with perhaps another 100 minor cheaters leaving. Several hundred cheater newbs, who have been forcibly reminded that we have rules here, have probably decided to follow those rules with their primaries and have let their illegal puppets die. I'd be surprised if there are as many as 25,000 players, as I'm sure there are many UN cheaters who (for various unspecified reasons) don't get ejected immediately for cheating.

Those big numbers can fluctuate an awful lot, but I know of at least one player with over 1000 puppets, and can think of a dozen or so who routinely maintain 200 or more. A very small number of players, especially invaders with their disposable nations, can cause big peaks and dips in those numbers. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Me? I have never really gotten active on these forums. The reason is a combination of factors. Firstly I never seem to have enought time to read the threads and get a good picture of the debate. Secondly, when I actually get to read some voting/drafting threads, I, at times, feel like an idiot with absolutly nothing to contribute to a debate way out of my leauge. Of course this is my problem, and my alone to work with. Another thing is that these forums at times can feel like "the club for mutual admiration" where a few very active members dominate the debate. I don't want to whine, but I believe that makes it harder for new people to get active. But really the same thing goes there, just keep posting and I suppose you'll get the hang of it eventually.

i guess it all depends on what you mean by active.

i do have other things on my mind but i do also occasionaly get on here

i don't more often because of the obsticle of having to log on twice, to the forums to be able to post on them, after, having already logged on to nation states.

and i'm not interested in WAR gaming. i'm interested in immagineering environmentaly harmonious and sustainable infrastructure with proven and reliable alternative tecnologices in immaginary cultures that are both nonthreatining AND unrestrictive of real opportunities for REAL gratifictation.

which i know isn't, or doesn't appear to be, the consensus of what people on here seem to want.

which is ok. everyplace is welcome to be what people on it want it to be.

it's just that i stumbled on this place looking for what I was looking for, and haven't really found anyplace close enough to THAT yet.

if and when i do, i may dissappear from here altogather.
unless of course, the consensus of what is wanted to be on here, shifts considerably and, at this point rather unexpectedly, in its focus.

again, i'm NOT saying there's anything WRONG with what's on here and what this place is about, just that its a bit of a way from what i'm REALLY looking for.

and i do wish, if anyone DID find what i'm looking for, and they felt like sharing it, wish and hope, that the'll be able/allowed, to post a link to it somewhere, like possibly gameplay, that i could fallow and find it too.

=^^=
.../\...

DEFCON - We don't really have much left to do. The two major things that we had going for us have passed. Sure, we're working on stuff, but most seem to be losing interest in that.

We're working on a lot of stuff still, but yes, the hot-button issue that got us started -- terrorism -- was settled by the passage (finally!) of the "UN Counterterrorism Initiative" a few months ago. After that, we did see a dip in activity, but then, even with the holidays, we saw a spike when Fris asked for a proposal to ban UN armies, an idea on which we dived like hungry jackals. However, Kenny's proposal unfortunately failed to pass, and that kinda sucked a little air out of the effort, but it's still going on, along with work in the area of bioweapons. Anyone interested in these issues, or any others related to international security matters, are more than welcome to bring their ideas to DEFCON (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON).

4. The snotty part. Activity isn't an abstract good. The debate on Child Pornography Prohibition was plenty active. Is there anyone who's yet recovered from the headache of it, though? Same with the Anti-Terrorism Act, the abortion debates, some others. Why are we bemoaning lower amounts of pointless drive-by interjections - we should be celebrating it!

Okay, so I'm snotty. I concur completely. :cool:

There's also another reason for the dip in activity, though, that everyone seems to have overlooked: Hack's BO. :p

Me? I have never really gotten active on these forums. The reason is a combination of factors. Firstly I never seem to have enought time to read the threads and get a good picture of the debate. Secondly, when I actually get to read some voting/drafting threads, I, at times, feel like an idiot with absolutly nothing to contribute to a debate way out of my leauge. Of course this is my problem, and my alone to work with. Another thing is that these forums at times can feel like "the club for mutual admiration" where a few very active members dominate the debate. I don't want to whine, but I believe that makes it harder for new people to get active. But really the same thing goes there, just keep posting and I suppose you'll get the hang of it eventually.

As a newbie, I agree with you too :). It's just like immersing myself in another, whole new culture and I, well, sometimes get uncomfortable with this feeling.

As a newbie, I agree with you too :). It's just like immersing myself in another, whole new culture and I, well, sometimes get uncomfortable with this feeling.

That's one that I can understand. I took the leap of faith approach. I jumped balls-first into a vote/debate over the proposed Anti-Terror Act. I figured, having read through the rules and stickies, that I was as prepared as I was going to get for it, so I took the plunge to sink or swim as I could manage. I got roughly the same treatment that I see a lot of others receive now, but I tend to be a belligerent SOB who likes to argue, so it didn't rattle me too much. Hell, some of the first people that I started to get into it with ended up being fairly close allies.

About the only advice that can be given to deal with that feeling is to simply think of it like going to a new city, or a new school, or whatever, where you have to meet new people and figure out how to deal with them. You won't like everyone, and not everyone will like you, but if you stick around, you're bound to find a few that you'll hit it off with and will help you enjoy the game more fully.

About the only advice that can be given to deal with that feeling is to simply think of it like going to a new city, or a new school, or whatever, where you have to meet new people and figure out how to deal with them. You won't like everyone, and not everyone will like you, but if you stick around, you're bound to find a few that you'll hit it off with and will help you enjoy the game more fully.


I think that's very good advice. These forums do have certain similarities to a school yard and to keep above the waters you have to adapt and find out how things work. Maybe we should go even further with the school simile and start a mentor program.. ok, just kidding. But I do think the NSveterans could do a lot to help newbies (like myself). Although I understand no one logs on here to babysit other nations, but its always nice with a smile..

<snip>

and i'm not interested in WAR gaming. i'm interested in immagineering environmentaly harmonious and sustainable infrastructure with proven and reliable alternative tecnologices in immaginary cultures that are both nonthreatining AND unrestrictive of real opportunities for REAL gratifictation.

which i know isn't, or doesn't appear to be, the consensus of what people on here seem to want.

which is ok. everyplace is welcome to be what people on it want it to be.
<snip>

Yah, somebody who agrees with me. It's a shame the grammar/spelling errors are all over it.

Anywho, if you want to get the place active again, try writing a proposal/repeal. There's a terrible resolution on Stem Cells. Well, not really on stem cells, but it says it is. The only thing I saw in it, was to give researchers more funds.

Yah, somebody who agrees with me. It's a shame the grammar/spelling errors are all over it.
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's an ill eagle!

(Which is, I guess, a bird.)

Man, that was painful, mate... :p

Hey, I made that mistake too at first. Anyways, I'm glad Firefox has a prebuilt spellchecker, even if it does call most online lingo incorrectly spelled.

Sigh, I didn't kill the UN, so I guess that means nothing. It has too be a combination of everything above. Oh well, why don't we just wait for the next biggest media event.

Wasn't me! The fact that anti-UN freedom fighters have been spotted in isolated parts of Romanar and getting funding from certain Romanarian businesses is just a coincidence. :D

I have been infected with a dangerous combination of diseases. One of these maladies is known informally as:
'responsibility' (doingalotcosnooneelsewill oryoufoolishlyvolunteeredia),
another is this misnomer of a virus known as a 'life' (wheredidmyMEtimego idotoomuchoutsidesis) leaving you tired, stressed, strangely poor and often doublebooked,
'other-half' is a parasitic-fungus, causing delusions and addiction - the fungus saps the precious lifebloods of money and time, while the host merely enjoys the 'highs' produced by such a relationship. (If my bf visits...I love you really)

Temporarily I was crippled by nointernet edomus which led to temporary insanity (hobbling around a park, praying for a 'free signal' and wielding a 'lahptopp' comes to mind) but I have since recovered.

Fortunately I am starting to be dosed with 'Eh-says' (Active ingredients: polycompulsaria typingadocumentfol, propacrastinatone and n'ethene-2-avoidworkene) so recovery will possibly occur, but it will be slow.

Temporarily I was crippled by nointernet edomus which led to temporary insanity (hobbling around a park, praying for a 'free signal' and wielding a 'lahptopp' comes to mind) but I have since recovered.Try warriding with a PDA sometime. Man... talk about the depths of desperation...

I have been infected with a dangerous combination of diseases. One of these maladies is known informally as:
'responsibility' (doingalotcosnooneelsewill oryoufoolishlyvolunteeredia),
another is this misnomer of a virus known as a 'life' (wheredidmyMEtimego idotoomuchoutsidesis) leaving you tired, stressed, strangely poor and often doublebooked,
'other-half' is a parasitic-fungus, causing delusions and addiction - the fungus saps the precious lifebloods of money and time, while the host merely enjoys the 'highs' produced by such a relationship. (If my bf visits...I love you really)

Temporarily I was crippled by nointernet edomus which led to temporary insanity (hobbling around a park, praying for a 'free signal' and wielding a 'lahptopp' comes to mind) but I have since recovered.

Fortunately I am starting to be dosed with 'Eh-says' (Active ingredients: polycompulsaria typingadocumentfol, propacrastinatone and n'ethene-2-avoidworkene) so recovery will possibly occur, but it will be slow.

You win this thread. :D

http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/martin/first-place-blue-ribbon.jpg

other....most of the proposals getting to vote just didn't inspire me into a purple-faced frothing rage, or amused me enough to respond with silliness.http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f235/HoratioSulla/smileys/groucho.gif

Those big numbers can fluctuate an awful lot, but I know of at least one player with over 1000 puppets, and can think of a dozen or so who routinely maintain 200 or more.

And there was me thinking that my forty-something puppets & other nations was quite a large collection! ;)

And there was me thinking that my forty-something puppets & other nations was quite a large collection!
That was the most pointless gravedig in history.

Gravedig? Heck it's less than a month old. (19 days to be exct) The corpse is still FRESH! It stinks to high heven, but it' still fresh. Now if it had been over a year and the flesh had rotted from the bones I might agree.

Gravedig? Heck it's less than a month old. (19 days to be exct) The corpse is still FRESH! It stinks to high heven, but it' still fresh. Now if it had been over a year and the flesh had rotted from the bones I might agree.

mmmmmmmmmm.....fresh corpse......here, hold my shoes for me.

I must echo what has been sid numerous times in the thread already. I got big into this during the last semester of college here, because I had several long, boring classes in so-called "smart" classrooms with computers. This semester, I have several long, boring classes in regular classrooms with no computers, and thus have had no time when I a) had an internet connection b) didn't have my personal computer, which enabled me to spend time even more uselessly via video games and c) wasn't incredibly stressed out all the time. Furthermore, the keyboards they've put in the classrooms with computers are very loud, and thus are difficult to type on efficiently without it echoing about the room like gunfire. Damn the Gateway computer corporation to hell, if you ask me. Anywho, it is true that life hasn't provincially granted me magic, otherwise useless time in which to post. Hopefully one of two things will happen in the next couple of weeks when the next semester starts. First, I could get classes that are interesting, thus granting me a higher view of my quality of life, as it were, enabling me to no longer attempt to escape into the exciting, flashy world of Oblivion or CounterStrike or the like, or second, I could get more stupid classes in the less stupid rooms. Either way, you'd see... er... read more from me.

Oh, and... Hi, all.

Oblivion stole my soul. I had to do unspeakable things to get it back.

I'm going with the "cycle theory" of UN activity (which is fairly self-explanatory). I was busy as all hell in January, and now I have time to post. When hell reappears, I will disappear. Hence the cycling.

At least cycling keeps you fitter than driving.

The Wolf Guardians;12322951']Oh, and... Hi, all.I was wondering where the hell you vanished to.

I was wondering where the hell you vanished to.

He's a wolf. He was busy pack-ing.

He's a wolf. He was busy pack-ing.

Ugh...that was terrrrrrible... :p

I thought it was pretty punny, actually. lol.

This is a good place to discuss certain issues. Issues that easily be discussed on a purely hypothetical level. So basically I'm uninterested in the issues the NSUN chooses to focus on. There are much better places to discuss those issues.

Been playing WoW too much lately....... FOR THE HORDE!

Because I'm not a UN member. :)

This is a good place to discuss certain issues. Issues that easily be discussed on a purely hypothetical level. So basically I'm uninterested in the issues the NSUN chooses to focus on. There are much better places to discuss those issues.
What criteria do you use when deciding which old threads to gravedig? Subject? Thread starter? Last post date? Also, what kind of socks are you wearing?

What criteria do you use when deciding which old threads to gravedig? Subject? Thread starter? Last post date? Also, what kind of socks are you wearing?

It's a tough call. I like "moderating" the harsh tones the moderators uses some times. I've been posting on a lot of anti UN threads. RP threads on this forum, etc.

Is page 2 graverobbing? I can stick to only posting on page 1 of the UN forum if you like.

If you haven't met me though, I'm a one issue candidate. I'll assume you aren't interested in that one issue. I think I will actually use a sock puppet if someone mentions said issue.

I would say that it is frustrating trying to get onto Jolt as well as being a newbie it is really hard to get proposals out as it feels that some of the older people that work on the threads weddle out the younger ones to ensure that it is a small select group that get their proposals accepted.

For instance there has been just over 200 resolutions in nearly three or four years and some of these resolutions have been posted by the same select group.

However that is not to say that some one sentence proposals should be allowed but a more 'moderate' view on proposals may merge them into respectable ones.

It's a tough call. I like "moderating" the harsh tones the moderators uses some times. I've been posting on a lot of anti UN threads. RP threads on this forum, etc.

Is page 2 graverobbing? I can stick to only posting on page 1 of the UN forum if you like.

If you haven't met me though, I'm a one issue candidate. I'll assume you aren't interested in that one issue. I think I will actually use a sock puppet if someone mentions said issue.
Hmmm....do you prefer broccoli or cauliflower? Ford or Chevy?

I would say that it is frustrating trying to get onto Jolt as well as being a newbie it is really hard to get proposals out as it feels that some of the older people that work on the threads weddle out the younger ones to ensure that it is a small select group that get their proposals accepted.

For instance there has been just over 200 resolutions in nearly three or four years and some of these resolutions have been posted by the same select group.

However that is not to say that some one sentence proposals should be allowed but a more 'moderate' view on proposals may merge them into respectable ones.

OOC: You're right about Jolt. Seeing all those "database errors" gets awfully frustrating sometimes. As for the rest of it....

There are some people here who like to snarl and sneer at newcomers who don't know much about how things work. I guess it makes them feel like big shots to post some snarky one-liner. As an old friend of mine used to say: "You gotta remember, some people are just jerks".

On the other hand, a lot of us love to see new folks here who make an honest effort to participate, want to get involved, and treat others with respect. If you could see some of the private areas on off-site forums where the "older people" hang out, you'd probably be surprised at the excitement when a really promising new member shows up.

As for proposals and who writes them, it just makes sense that folks who've been around a while and learned the ins and outs of the system are more successful at that, right? Those same people also tend to have built friendships and "alliances", so support is more readily available. But newcomers can be successful at it, too, if they want to make the effort, keep an open mind, listen to advice from the old-timers, and learn the ropes. There's even an off-site forum, Reclamation, that Waterana, one of the "older people", started specifically to give people -- especially newcomers -- a place to work on proposal ideas and get help and advice. (She's gonna kill me for calling her "older"! ;) )

We were all new at this once. :)

Completely OOC

It's pretty obvious why the UN in nation states is falling apart.

The forum is dominated by a group of people that do not care to hear anything but their own yes men.

An those people and their yes men are allowed to walk all over anyone who shows up.

It's kinda like the real UN in that way.

And, yes, I'm rather beligerant, but so what? I'll get kicked off soon because I bruised some feelings among the ruling click because I pointed out just how stupid they were being in and out of character.

A good example is the latest push toward global warming bills. I find it hilarious that if I throw global warming in theior faces from the start, they deny that global warming exists in this universe.:rolleyes:

It doesn't take long for the debate to obviously be based on global warming, but that my actually laying it all out on the table is not welcome.

This is crap guys. THis is the same reason why the real UN, which could have been a truly great organization has devolved into a mindless fraternity with a complete lack of direction. The only thing they manage to do it breed more hatred in the world.

I could list example after example of wars caused or escalated, and human disasters created by the UN in the realworld, but it's pretty obvious that I would be wasting my time.

Just as pointing out the flaws in the logic of these bills is a complete and utter waste of time.

Completely OOC

Oh goody.

It's pretty obvious why the UN in nation states is falling apart.

Prove it. I have seen more new players post in the past two days than in the past three months.

The forum is dominated by a group of people that do not care to hear anything but their own yes men.

An those people and their yes men are allowed to walk all over anyone who shows up.

Uhhh... real countries don't like to hear anything other than people that agree with them. It's realistic that way.

I'm frankly tired of the bitching about how players are treated. Players like Ausserland and Yelda go out of their way to be courteous to new players, and they are two of the most prolific and well-respected members of the UN. They very clearly demonstrate that they aren't "yes men." I disagree with both Auss and Yelda on many occasions.

It's kinda like the real UN in that way.

Haha! what cutting political commentary! Because, you know, real nations join the real UN every day, and then Iran's all like "uh uh bitch, you're new" and then Britain was all "yo lay off" and stuff. Man it was cool.

And, yes, I'm rather beligerant, but so what? I'll get kicked off soon because I bruised some feelings among the ruling click because I pointed out just how stupid they were being in and out of character.

It takes a lot to get yourself noticed by the mods, and you haven't hit it yet. But by all means, please don't stop now!

A good example is the latest push toward global warming bills. I find it hilarious that if I throw global warming in theior faces from the start, they deny that global warming exists in this universe.:rolleyes:

If I'm not mistaken, there has been only one proposal posted about global warming in the past two days. Before that, there haven't been any submitted with any success since I got involved on the forums. Which was close to 7 months ago.

It doesn't take long for the debate to obviously be based on global warming, but that my actually laying it all out on the table is not welcome.

So, you don't like the fact that nations discuss global warming when you bring it up in the first place?

Ah, I get it.

This is crap guys. THis is the same reason why the real UN, which could have been a truly great organization has devolved into a mindless fraternity with a complete lack of direction. The only thing they manage to do it breed more hatred in the world.

Durrr, durr, RL UN=NS UN! Durrr.

I could list example after example of wars caused or escalated, and human disasters created by the UN in the realworld, but it's pretty obvious that I would be wasting my time.

Just as pointing out the flaws in the logic of these bills is a complete and utter waste of time.

Let's review: so far you have posted nothing other than pointless spam, and when people tell you to be quiet and go play in the corner, you just get angrier and spam more.

Congratulations! You've made a complete fool out of yourself! Thankyoucomeagain.

Oh goody.



Prove it. I have seen more new players post in the past two days than in the past three months.



Uhhh... real countries don't like to hear anything other than people that agree with them. It's realistic that way.

I'm frankly tired of the bitching about how players are treated. Players like Ausserland and Yelda go out of their way to be courteous to new players, and they are two of the most prolific and well-respected members of the UN. They very clearly demonstrate that they aren't "yes men." I disagree with both Auss and Yelda on many occasions.



Haha! what cutting political commentary! Because, you know, real nations join the real UN every day, and then Iran's all like "uh uh bitch, you're new" and then Britain was all "yo lay off" and stuff. Man it was cool.



It takes a lot to get yourself noticed by the mods, and you haven't hit it yet. But by all means, please don't stop now!



If I'm not mistaken, there has been only one proposal posted about global warming in the past two days. Before that, there haven't been any submitted with any success since I got involved on the forums. Which was close to 7 months ago.



So, you don't like the fact that nations discuss global warming when you bring it up in the first place?

Ah, I get it.



Durrr, durr, RL UN=NS UN! Durrr.



Let's review: so far you have posted nothing other than pointless spam, and when people tell you to be quiet and go play in the corner, you just get angrier and spam more.

Congratulations! You've made a complete fool out of yourself! Thankyoucomeagain.

I'd say you're funny, but it's not politically correct to laugh at people like you.

I'd say you're funny but...you're not.

I'd say you're funny but...you're not.

well, they say it takes all kinds...

without people like me, people like you would still be living in trees

I'd say this thread has about run it's course.

I'd say this thread has about run it's course.

I think it's course was run back when Disco last revived it.

Could Yelda do the honors and request a lock?

Could Yelda do the honors and request a lock?
I think they only do lock requests for RP threads, but if a kind Mod could see fit to lock it then sure, lock it.