NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=medical

Medical Cannabis Act
A resolution to ban, legalize, or encourage recreational drugs.

Category: Recreational Drug Use
Decision: Legalize
Proposed by: Belarum

Description: General Assembly of the United Nations,

CONCERNED by the current medical practices of UN member nations that have made the use of medical cannabis in all of its forms illegal,

RECOGNIZING that the use of medical cannabis (including, but not limited to, marijuana cigarettes and THC capsules) is an extraordinarily successful treatment as an antiemetic, which is a medicine used to treat a wide range of afflictions from motion sickness to the side effects of chemotherapy,

CONVINCED that the following measures will allow for better medical treatment of patients and thereby improve the quality of life in UN member states,

MANDATES the following:

1) All UN member states will grant medical practitioners operating within their borders the right to prescribe medical cannabis to their patients at their own discretion.

2) All UN member states will legalize the possession of medical cannabis as long as the possessor can provide a prescription from a legitimate medical practitioner operating within the charter of the Medical Cannabis Act.

3) All UN member states shall legalize the cultivation, production, transportation, dispensing, and sale of cannabis for medicinal purposes.

4) All UN member states will reserve the right to prosecute the possessors of recreational cannabis in all of its forms if they so choose, but encourages nations to make possession a non-incarcerable offense.

I think that Recreational Drug Use would be your best bet.

Maybe you should post the draft.

As explicitly stated in the rules, it's Recreational Drug use.

As explicitly stated in the rules, it's Recreational Drug use.

MEDICAL marijuana use IS NOT recreational

is it recreational when your doctor gives you any other medication?


viagra dont count ;)

it is for sure a Human Rights or
Social Justice proposal.

im leaning towards human rights

MEDICAL marijuana use IS NOT recreational

is it recreational when your doctor gives you any other medication?


viagra dont count ;)

it is for sure a Human Rights or
Social Justice proposal.

im leaning towards human rights

I believe that The Most Glorious Hack knows what he's talking about. As per the rules, it would fall into the Recreational Drug Use category.

Lean where ever the hell you want. If you're going to make one here, it's going to be Recreational Drug Use.

Legalize or promote?

Depends what the proposal says - and you might be advised to post it here for comment.

If it's "marijuana should be legal for medical purposes", then Legalize.
If it's "marijuana is a really great drug for medical purposes and we should encourage/subsidise it", then Promote.

Depends on how far you intend to go. "Promote" is pretty severe, though. It would be like the government taking out ads telling people to smoke up for whatever ails them.

Think of it like the "Strong" for the other categories. Except, perhaps, even stronger.

Edit: And what Gruen said. Subsidies.

OOC: All of this discussion is really pointless without a draft of the proposal. Without that, we're just engaging in speculation.

I must admit to having wondered about this point myself, not out of any wish to introduce such a proposal but because of the Hack's earlier-stated opinion (in a thread whose title I unfortunately can't now recall) that if a proposal placed in the 'Recreational Drugs' category sought to impose a total ban on alcohol that would effectively only ban its recreational uses and not its use for any other purposes: That being the case, having RD as the appropriate category for ruling on a non-recreational use of another drug (in this case cannabis) does -- even though it is clearly specified in the current rules -- seem a bit inconsistent...

but because of the Hack's earlier-stated opinion (in a thread whose title I unfortunately can't now recall) that if a proposal placed in the 'Recreational Drugs' category sought to impose a total ban on alcohol that would effectively only ban its recreational uses and not its use for any other purposes: That being the case, having RD as the appropriate category for ruling on a non-recreational use of another drug (in this case cannabis) does -- even though it is clearly specified in the current rules -- seem a bit inconsistent...Do remember it was an opinion. It was brought up hypothetically, and I wasn't very thrilled with the concept of it, but it was the most logically consistant.

Furthermore, I believe that I said that if it was in a different category, it would ban all uses. Anyway, part of the reason I made the ruling on marijuana was to prevent category creep, and to keep people from legalizing all uses through "Human Rights" (or some such nonsense) by including a brief line about medicinal use (it had been tried). The medical marijuana ruling is more administrative than anything.

Do remember it was an opinion.
*snip*
The medical marijuana ruling is more administrative than anything.

Okay. Would a proposal requiring nations to allow the sacramental use of various drugs also have to be fitted into this category, insulting though that might seem to people who consider their religious practices to be more than recreational in nature, or could that be 'human rights'?

Just updated the first post with the proposal. Leave your comments if you wish.

Also, for any mods watching, could you update the title? Thank you kindly in advance.

Also, for any mods watching, could you update the title? Thank you kindly in advance.
When requesting a change, it's customary to define what you want it changed to.

Arbitrary change applied.

Yes, I'll keep that in mind for future posts.

My only real view here is that this really isn't territory that the UN needs to deal with, especially as cannabis treatment would pretty much fall under the purview of The Patient Rights Act.


BELIEVING that all persons have the right to participate in the assessment of their needs, the development of their treatment plans and to receive information concerning their condition and treatment;

ASSERTING that medical professionals must be able to provide these services without government interference in the doctor/patient relationship or corruption;

...

(I) Decisions concerning medical treatment, medical procedures and treatment options shall rest with the patient and his or her attending physician.

(II) All citizens of all UN member nations have the right to undergo any medical procedure, except where previous legislation by this body that is still in effect has granted them immunity from giving such rights.

It might be stretching to call it duplication, but PRA essentially grants doctors the right to prescribe whatever treatment they believe necessary, including cannabis. This would seem like micromanagement past that.

I have not read the Patients Rights Act, although after reading that I think that treatment involving cannabis is extraordinarily vague in PRA.

I don't feel it's micromanagement, I think it's merely clarification.

I have not read the Patients Rights Act, although after reading that I think that treatment involving cannabis is extraordinarily vague in PRA.

I don't feel it's micromanagement, I think it's merely clarification.

It's unnecessary clarification. If the attending physician feels that treating the patient with cannabis is the best option, then the doctor has the right to prescribe it and the patient has the right to possess and utilize it, under the Patient Rights Act.

As explicitly stated in the rules, it's Recreational Drug use.

im sorry but thats just not right even if the rules do "explicitly state" it if is then it needs to be changed.

So who can i appeal to?

Would you please show me where its "explicitly stated" ?

I FOUND THESE\/
"Category

Category violations are pretty simple things, and often happens with 'Social Justice'. If your Social Justice proposal doesn't deal with "reduc[ing] income inequality and increas[ing] basic welfare", you've got the wrong category. This also includes proposals to ban guns forever being labeled as "Gun Control: Relax". This also includes Medical Marijuana Proposals under Human Rights, by the way."

Now that says that its not a human rights deal but it dont explicitly say that it must be under Recreational Drug use?
may be it should be changed to be more clear?
because it sounds to me like it just said not in humam rights but any other would be fine.


AND THIS \/
"Recreational Drug Use
A resolution to ban, legalize, or encourage recreational drugs.

Precisely what it sounds like. "Outlaw" will impose a drug ban, "Legalize" and "Promote" will remove drug bans. They also have effects on the "Drugs" subcategory of Civil Freedoms; "Outlaw" will instantly impose total government control on drugs, "Legalize" will relax government control on drugs, and "Promote" will impose zero government control on drugs. "Promote" will also increse overall Civil Freedoms, but will not push it past the center"

if medical marijuana proposals need to be in there shouldnt it say so?

but i still say its a human right issue, maybe Social Justice, Moral Decency,
or even a whole new Category?

How can anyone not see that MEDICAL does not = recreational?

No doctor has ever wrote a script for recreational marijuana :D

I know this old lady that i see at the cannabis club some times
she is like in her 70's. never smoked anything or even drank anything she said she tried beer and wine each once :)
now she just stated smoking because she has some sort of cancer and is going through the chemo.
i met her on her first trip she didnt even know what to buy lol

The last time i saw her was like 2 months later
first off she is still alive :D she looks alot better and she said the weed is helping her keep food down better than anything the doctors ever gave her
and she said she just feels better over all :D

So i would like to ask whoever put in the rules that medical marijuana is recreational to message me.
i will give you her address and her doctors name and addy.
then i want you to send them letters telling them that her marijuana use is recreational.

MEDICAL marijuana use IS NOT recreational
The reason that marijuana is illegal is due to its abuse as a recreational drug. If you want to legalize the medical use of it, you must take it OUT of the recreational drug category and put it IN to the medical category. The way you do that in game terms is to "Recreational Drugs / Legalize" it for medical use. Clear?

We've had this same conversation probably 129 times before, and the rule was instigated as a result of the first 100 or so times. You've got your second modly confirmation. Time to move on.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

The reason that marijuana is illegal is due to its abuse as a recreational drug.[/thread]

ok i know better than to arue with mods but i have to sy one more thing just so i know for later.


now there are lots of other narcotic pharmaceuticals that a doctor can give like valium, oxycontin, morphine, vicodin, ect


and they are also illegal for just anyone to use "due to" their "abuse as a recreational drug"
in fact legal prescription drugs are the most abused substance in today's society.

OK MY QUESTION
so if i make a proposal one day to ensure access of these common medicinal drugs to people who NEED them do i also have to list it under recreational drug's????

It's unnecessary clarification. If the attending physician feels that treating the patient with cannabis is the best option, then the doctor has the right to prescribe it and the patient has the right to possess and utilize it, under the Patient Rights Act.

The problem there is, although cannabis is sometimes the best treatment for afflictions (for instance, as an antiemetic), there are less successful alternatives. But, they are somewhat successful. In nations that have made all forms of cannabis illegal, it could be loopholed around. I think that this legislation will eliminate the loophole.

OK MY QUESTION
so if i make a proposal one day to ensure access of these common medicinal drugs to people who NEED them do i also have to list it under recreational drug's????
Yep.

The single biggest problem with the category "Recreational Drugs" is that there has never been ANY legislation passed by the NSUN under that category. Consequently, nothing is legal. Nothing is also illegal. It's an open slate, waiting for a decent proposal to address it. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever come close to getting enough approvals to pass one either way, much less gotten one onto the Assembly floor.

So all of your assumptions about the recreational versus medicinal value of these drugs is moot until somebody passes something. Since we don't have a category that addresses medical events, you MUST use Recreational Drugs. That's the way Max set it up, and that's the way it stays.

Your only hope for changing this ruling is to come up with a comprehensive new UN Proposal category that makes sense in game terms, and that we can sell to the admins. I'll tell you right now that we've been discussing this idea on and off for over two years, and we can't come up with anything that fits. Your chances of coming up with something solid and new are pretty slim.

Yep.

The single biggest problem with the category "Recreational Drugs" is that there has never been ANY legislation passed by the NSUN under that category. Consequently, nothing is legal. Nothing is also illegal. It's an open slate, waiting for a decent proposal to address it. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever come close to getting enough approvals to pass one either way, much less gotten one onto the Assembly floor.

So all of your assumptions about the recreational versus medicinal value of these drugs is moot until somebody passes something. Since we don't have a category that addresses medical events, you MUST use Recreational Drugs. That's the way Max set it up, and that's the way it stays.

Your only hope for changing this ruling is to come up with a comprehensive new UN Proposal category that makes sense in game terms, and that we can sell to the admins. I'll tell you right now that we've been discussing this idea on and off for over two years, and we can't come up with anything that fits. Your chances of coming up with something solid and new are pretty slim.

thanks for the reply that clears up a lot :D

"comprehensive new UN Proposal category"

i already have some ideas but i need to think them out first

"Since we don't have a category that addresses medical events"

so that was one of my ideas a healthcare category


but then upon further investigation of the categories i saw this under
Social Justice

(all 3 \/ quoted from the rules page under the soical justice category)

"In addition, "Social Justice" also increases government spending on welfare and healthcare "

and
"or how much government spending goes to helping poor/sick people."

also
"a Food and Drug Administration in all UN member nations,"

Yep.
Since we don't have a category that addresses medical events,

idk it just seems to me that social justice touches on it enough to make more sense than recreational drug use idk???

1) Please don't use "idk." It's nothing personal, I'm not trying to be mean, but you'll get taken a LOT more seriously here if you avoid chatspeak.

2) Legalizing drugs for medical use doesn't necessarily increase spending.

St Jello Biafra;11832775']1) doesn't necessarily increase spending.

well it could if that government helps its people by paying for healthcare and prescriptions it could lso reduce government spending.


either way is beside the point though the point being that social justice does touch on healthcare

Time to move on.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

The ruling isn't going to change. Drop it.

Drop it.



so you were prety much just teasing me here? \/

.

Your only hope for changing this ruling is .

Ooo, it's not everyday I get to correct a mod.:D
Yep.

The single biggest problem with the category "Recreational Drugs" is that there has never been ANY legislation passed by the NSUN under that category. Consequently, nothing is legal. Nothing is also illegal. It's an open slate, waiting for a decent proposal to address it. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever come close to getting enough approvals to pass one either way, much less gotten one onto the Assembly floor.
I give you the only Recreational Drug Use category proposal to ever reach quorum, Recreational Drug Legalization (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Recreational_Drug_Legalization)

My only real view here is that this really isn't territory that the UN needs to deal with, especially as cannabis treatment would pretty much fall under the purview of The Patient Rights Act.



It might be stretching to call it duplication, but PRA essentially grants doctors the right to prescribe whatever treatment they believe necessary, including cannabis. This would seem like micromanagement past that.



:D while they are not directly related to medical marijuana i found these passed (and not repealed) resolutions to also be of interest.

and this first one \/ NEEDLE SHARING?
WTF? how does it get to be Social Justice and medical marijuana cant???

.................................................................................
Needle Sharing Prevention
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.


Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Mikitivity

Description: The NationStates United Nations,

OBSERVING the continued health risk posed by injecting drug use (IDU), as reported by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) in its June 25, 2004 report titled, "World Drug Report 2004";

AWARE that it is common for injecting drug users to share their needles, in a practice that is commonly referred to as "needle sharing";

TAKING NOTE of the United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS) report "2004 Report on the Global AIDS Epidemic", dated July 6, 2004;

CALLING ATTENTION to the fact that the UNAIDS report states that the "HIV epidemic remains largely concentrated among injecting drug users, men who have sex with men, sex workers, clients of sex workers, and their immediate sexual partners";

BEARING IN MIND that the UNAIDS report also found that in many regions of the world that 60% of injecting drug users are infected with HIV;

ALSO AWARE that due to the illegal status of most injecting drugs in many nations, that injecting drug users, like many other people living with HIV/AIDS and high risk groups, are less able to participate in prevention and treatment programs;

CONCERNED by the UNAIDS estimate that "AIDS is intensifying chronic food shortages in many countries where large numbers of people are already undernourished" due in part to the fact that people living with HIV/AIDS account for large portions of the agricultural work force;

ACKNOWLEGDING that while the best prevention and treatment programs are tailor designed to the individual cultures and societies to which they seek to help, that the scope of the AIDS Epidemic is global in nature;

NOTING the success of reducing HIV/AIDS (as well as other diseases such as Hepatitis B and C) through domestic, local, and non-governmental based needle and syringe exchange programs; [1], [2]

OBSERVING reports that needle and syringe exchange programs do not increase IDU, but instead have resulted in decreases in the number of injections per day; [3]

1. AFFIRMS the basic human right for all people, including injection drug users, to equal access to HIV/AIDS based prevention and treatment programs;

2. ENCOURAGES all nations to review existing free needle and syringe exchange programs and to consider adopting trial or study level needle and syringe exchange programs tailor suited to the cultural and society in which the program will be applied;

3.STRESSES that for IDU HIV/AIDS prevention programs to be successful, that the individuals that organize or participate in these programs shall not be subject to arrest or harassment, nor shall participation in these programs imply drug use;

4. COMMENDS existing national, local, and non-governmental needle and syringe exchange programs; and

5. REQUESTS that existing needle sharing prevention programs share the findings of their studies with other national, local, and non-governmental organizations interested in developing their own needle and syringe exchange programs.


NOTES:

[1] Australian National Council on AIDS, Hepatitis C, and Related Diseases for a real-world example.

[2] "Seattle and King County Needle Exchange Program" is another real-world example that these programs are cost effective and save money and lives.

[3] 1998 University of California San Francisco study titled: "Does HIV Needle Exchange Work?"


Votes For: 11,654
Votes Against: 2,876

................................................................................................
No Embargoes on Medicine
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Cherry Cola

Description: We assert that modern medicine can vastly improve quality of life, and is beneficial to all. Not having access to modern medicine and modern medical supplies can cause unnecessary suffering and death.

Therefore we propose that in the course of war, no nation make embargoes restricting the sale of medicine or medical supplies. We also propose that any controlling authority, be it a government, a rebellion, or an occupying force, make no restrictions in times of war preventing doctors from entering the retion to treat the sick, wounded, and dying.

Modern medicine is one of our societies modern accomplishments. We urge all nations to adopt this resolution to ensure that it is made freely accessable in times of war - times when it is needed most.

Votes For: 11,405
Votes Against: 2,757

.................................................................................................... ...

Increased Access to Medicine
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Anthonycha

Description: Diseases such as AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria kill millions of people unneccesarily worldwide every year. Dozens of millions more are suffering as a result of such diseases.

This affects and hurts everyone. For businesses, this is a huge loss in consumers. For education, it is a huge loss in potential scholars. For security, many of these people can be used to serve in law enforcement and the military. For both business and security, when medicines are not made accessible or affordable, black markets selling medicine arise. There would also be less people leaving their home countries if enough and proper medicine could be provided in their home countries. And of course there is also the moral aspect of trying to save people from suffering and death.

It is in the best national and collective interest of nations worldwide to help alleviate the suffering and prevent the deaths of those suffering under the previously mentioned diseases.

If this resolution passes, access to medicine would be increased with the support of all nations in the United Nations. This help would go not just go to people within their respective home countries, but would extend to all countries within the United Nations.

Nations may do this however they wish, from subsidizing their drug industries, to having their state provide more medicine and distributing it abroad.

Votes For: 12,046
Votes Against: 2,568

.................................................................................................... ..

WTF? how does it get to be Social Justice and medical marijuana cant???Needles are not drugs, in case you didn't notice.

I have explained the reasoning for the decision. Fris has expanded upon the reason. He's told you to drop it, twice, and now I'm telling you to drop it. We're well beyond subtle here. Take your personal crusade to preach the glories of marijuana elsewhere.

- The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator

"Needles are not drugs"

no but when they are used for recreational drug shouldnt they fall under that category?

either way im done with this thread (before i get banned) : (

besides i dont need to say anything else :D the truth in what i have said will speak for itself.
anyone who reads my post can see how illogical it is for a medical proposal to fall under recreational drug use.

besides i dont need to say anything else :D the truth in what i have said will speak for itself.
anyone who reads my post can see how illogical it is for a medical proposal to fall under recreational drug use.Don't know when to shut up, do you?

5 day ban.


-The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator

The single biggest problem with the category "Recreational Drugs" is that there has never been ANY legislation passed by the NSUN under that category. Consequently, nothing is legal. Nothing is also illegal. It's an open slate, waiting for a decent proposal to address it. And to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever come close to getting enough approvals to pass one either way, much less gotten one onto the Assembly floor.
This one (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Recreational_Drug_Legalization) did reach quorum, but failed heavily at vote.

Apologies for punting this back into the realm of relevance, but St Jello Biafra is currently in support of this proposal.

Absolutely no idea on the classification question, but New Ixion is also in support of this proposal and will campaign for it in our regional forum should it come to a vote.

Just posted this officially as a proposal to the UN (see first post for link).

If anyone would like to help me campaign, it would be greatly appreciated.

4) All UN member states will reserve the right to prosecute the possessors of recreational cannabis in all of its forms if they so choose, but encourages nations to make possession a non-imprisonable offense.
I think you should drop the latter half. You don't want to send mixed singles about this proposal's aim.

I think you should drop the latter half. You don't want to send mixed singles about this proposal's aim.

We agree. That's unrelated enough to the proposal's main focus that some folks might call it a rider. And riders make us grumpy.

I think you should drop the latter half. You don't want to send mixed singles about this proposal's aim.

Concur.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador-at-Large

The heck was that 5 day ban for? He already said that was his last post on the point, and perhaps if you'd actually answered his points which were in response to your reasoning, rather than telling him to re-read your reasoning, he would have shut up much earlier. Or you could have, y'know, ignored him. ( :eek: )


Anyway, back on topic, while it is possible that this is somewhat re-stating what's been said, I think it is a point that needs to be made. I'd advise losing part 4, since it has nothing to do with the rest of the proposal, and is just going to turn people off to what is otherwise an important idea, and changing 3 to the storage, transportation, dispensing and sale, since it really isn't necessary for every state to legalise the growing of cannabis within their state, and some may not want to.

I think you should drop the latter half. You don't want to send mixed singles about this proposal's aim.Or mixed signals even.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The heck was that 5 day ban for? He already said that was his last post on the point, and perhaps if you'd actually answered his points which were in response to your reasoning, rather than telling him to re-read your reasoning, he would have shut up much earlier. Or you could have, y'know, ignored him. ( :eek: )OOC: Far be it for me to speak for the mods, but the ban was likely imposed because even though Fat sackville was told on three occasions by two mods to drop the issue, he didn't.

Or mixed signals even.
I can't believe I made that mistake! Mixed singles would be highly immoral.

~Lori Jiffjeff
Legal Aide
Minister of Sandy Vaginas
Chair, "Mothers Against Weird Stuff"

I can't believe I made that mistake! Mixed singles would be highly immoral.

~Lori Jiffjeff
Legal Aide
Minister of Sandy Vaginas
Chair, "Mothers Against Weird Stuff"
Personally, I'm more suprised that I was the first person to point it out.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative