NationStates Jolt Archive

Disco asked a good question (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11603623&postcount=134). I thought it'd be good to discuss it.

Personally, I see quite a few of both similarities and differences between the real life UN and the NationStates UN. Anybody see any other things worth noting?

Differences

NSUN has no official charter and no defined purpose.
RLUN has different structure with a Security Council etc.
The NSUN actually does make a minor change to member nations via stats.
The NSUN is part of a web-based political simulation game.
Slightly different resolution style.
The NSUN has a Delegate/regional voting system.
The NSUN has an Endorsement system.


Similarities

Similar resolution style.
Both have democratic structures.
Largely ineffective at creating genuine change.
Both are international legislative bodies.
Reliant on member nations to provide armed forces.
Voluntary membership with international pressure to join.

Voluntary membership with international pressure to join.
Another difference would be the level of membership. In the RLUN, membership is almost universal.

Another difference would be the level of membership. In the RLUN, membership is almost universal.

Then again, how many RL nations are puppets of other nations.:D

OT: Hey, I like the new edit feature.

Don't forget that NSUN Resolutions actually mean something

The RWUN - Purpose
The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; and to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in attaining these ends.
The NSUN - Purpose
The UN is the world's governing body. It proposes and votes on resolutions, which are then binding on all member nations. In other words, it's a hot-bed of political intrigue and double-dealing.

The RWUN - Structure
The six principal organs of the United Nations, are the: General Assembly, Security Council, Economic and Social Council, Trusteeship Council, International Court of Justice and Secretariat. The United Nations family, however, is much larger, encompassing 15 agencies and several programmes and bodies.
The NSUN - Structure
The principle organ of the NS United Nations has no official name and consists of the deligates and representatives of the United Nations. The United Nations family, however, has a plethora of committees staffed by gnomes.

The NSUN does not have a security council. The NSUN does not have an International Court of Justice and most importantly it does not have a Secretariat. It does have some strange ranking people who wield absolute authority over what may and may not be discussed in the United Nations who are known as "moderators."

The RWUN - Legislation
Real life UN resolutions/treaties/etc. can be quite large. Here (http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm) is the RW UN treaty on "UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA." Like any other legislation, it can be amended and has been amended.
The NSUN - Legislation
NS UN resolutions must be defined for pre-determined categories; they must not exceed a maximum (and woefully inadequate) size; they can not be ammended once submitted as a proposal, and once passed can only be repealed.

The RWUN - Budget
The budget for the two years 2000-2001 is $2,535 million. The main source of funds is the contributions of Member States, which are assessed on a scale approved by the General Assembly.
The NSUN - Budget
The NS UN is prohibited by resolution from taxing member nations. All contributions are voluntary donations by member nations and because nations can't actually change their budgets except through daily issues and since there really is no daily issue to allow a member nation to contribute to the UN means that in principle the UN doesn't get any money whatsoever and everything is really a role playing illusion.

The NS UN is prohibited by resolution from taxing member nations.
It is prohibited from directly taxing the citizens of member nations. In theory, it could tax national governments.

The principle organ of the NS United Nations has no official name and consists of the deligates and representatives of the United Nations.Yes, it does (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/General_Assembly).

The NSUN does not have a security council. The NSUN does not have an International Court of Justice and most importantly it does not have a Secretariat. It does have some strange ranking people who wield absolute authority over what may and may not be discussed in the United Nations who are known as "moderators." They're also called the Secretariat (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/UN_Secretariat).

Yes, it does (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/General_Assembly).
Sorry, no. I posted the commonly accepted name when I created the entry in 2004. At that time, I was neither an NS mod nor a NSwiki sysop. Despite being widely accepted, it's purely unofficial.
They're also called the Secretariat (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/UN_Secretariat).
Again, no. That one was Mikitivity's, and I've never agreed with that interpretation. I don't believe it's in widespread acceptance.

Tzorsland's take is the official one.

The RWUN - Purpose
The purposes of the United Nations, as set forth in the Charter, are to maintain international peace and security; to develop friendly relations among nations; to cooperate in solving international economic, social, cultural and humanitarian problems and in promoting respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms; and to be a centre for harmonizing the actions of nations in attaining these ends.

That's a purpose indeed.

The NSUN - Purpose
The UN is the world's governing body. It proposes and votes on resolutions, which are then binding on all member nations. In other words, it's a hot-bed of political intrigue and double-dealing.

This, however, is not. It's a description.

The RWUN - Structure
The six principal organs of the United Nations, are the: General Assembly, Security Council, Economic and Social Council, Trusteeship Council, International Court of Justice and Secretariat. The United Nations family, however, is much larger, encompassing 15 agencies and several programmes and bodies.
The NSUN - Structure
The principle organ of the NS United Nations has no official name and consists of the deligates and representatives of the United Nations. The United Nations family, however, has a plethora of committees staffed by gnomes.

The NSUN does not have a security council. The NSUN does not have an International Court of Justice and most importantly it does not have a Secretariat. It does have some strange ranking people who wield absolute authority over what may and may not be discussed in the United Nations who are known as "moderators."

The RWUN - Legislation
Real life UN resolutions/treaties/etc. can be quite large. Here (http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/closindx.htm) is the RW UN treaty on "UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA." Like any other legislation, it can be amended and has been amended.
The NSUN - Legislation
NS UN resolutions must be defined for pre-determined categories; they must not exceed a maximum (and woefully inadequate) size; they can not be ammended once submitted as a proposal, and once passed can only be repealed.

The RWUN - Budget
The budget for the two years 2000-2001 is $2,535 million. The main source of funds is the contributions of Member States, which are assessed on a scale approved by the General Assembly.
The NSUN - Budget
The NS UN is prohibited by resolution from taxing member nations. All contributions are voluntary donations by member nations and because nations can't actually change their budgets except through daily issues and since there really is no daily issue to allow a member nation to contribute to the UN means that in principle the UN doesn't get any money whatsoever and everything is really a role playing illusion.

These are all good points. Nice.

Differences

NSUN has no official charter and no defined purpose.
RLUN has different structure with a Security Council etc.
The NSUN actually does make a minor change to member nations via stats.
The NSUN is part of a web-based political simulation game.
Slightly different resolution style.
The NSUN has a Delegate/regional voting system.
The NSUN has an Endorsement system.
As the NS FAQ states, non-members aren't affected by the actions of the NSUN, whereas in the real world non-members (particularly non-State observers such as the Palestinians) are very much affected by the UN's actions.

RLUN has the power to address individual members (and non-members, as Safalra notes) in its resolutions. The NSUN may only make general resolutions.

I've always said the NSUN is more like the RL EU.

The only thing near to members wielding vetoes in the NSUN are the moderators, and many aren't even UN members.

As the NS FAQ states, non-members aren't effected by the actions of the NSUN, whereas in the real world non-members (particularly non-State observers such as the Palestinians) are very much effected by the UN's actions.

Excellent point.

RLUN has the power to address individual members (and non-members, as Safalra notes) in its resolutions. The NSUN may only make general resolutions.

True. I should have thought of that one.

difference: the RL UN comprises of a vast majority of the worlds governments.

Here, it's off tangent, but here is my first thoughts about the NSUN and RLEU back in November 2005. It was generally well received, although had a few discussions amongst other Noggers:

For sometime now I've observed similarities between the NSUN, and another similar RL organisation. That organisation should in theory be the Real-Life United Nations.

In truth, it would appear that the NSUN has more in common with the European Union.

First of all, consider the power the NSUN has over member states. Member states when they join agree to surrender supremacy over matters to the UN, and agree to harmonisation of legislation. Member states also reserve the right to leave the UN.

The same remains true for the EU. The European Union's activities cover all areas of public policy, from health and economic policy to foreign affairs and defence. Member states agree to be bound by the legislation made by the EU. Member states also retain the right to leave the EU.

In theory the NSUN can legislate on almost anything, although most member states have no interest in micromanagement of soverign issues. The EU's mandate is restricted by various constitutions and treaties, and thus deals mainly with monetary affairs, agricultural, trade policy, environmental policy, social policy, economic policy, consumer protection, home affairs and (eventually) foreign affairs. Some of these areas overlap with the NSUN's perceived mandate, some are distinct and unrelated. In truth, the aims of the NSUN are more closely related to the RLUN, but only because of the agenda of member states rather than any specific charter or treaty. There is theoretically nothing of substance to stop the NSUN from legislating on issues that the has RLEU legislated on.

A basic tension exists within the RL European Union between intergovernmentalism and supranationalism. Intergovernmentalism is a method of decision-making in international organisations where power is possessed by the member states and decisions are made by unanimity. Independent appointees of the governments or elected representatives have solely advisory or implementational functions. In supranationalism power is held by independent appointed officials or by representatives elected by the legislatures or people of the member states. Member state governments still have power, but they must share this power with other actors. Furthermore, decisions are made by majority votes, hence it is possible for a member-state to be forced by the other member-states to implement a decision against its will.

The European Union attempts to strike a balance between the two approaches. The NSUN follows a similar process - proposals are voted on by majority voting between member states and appointed representitives (with delegates doubling as both state governments and as appointed representitives). It is possible in the NSUN for member states to be forced to implement legislation against its will.

Finally consider the role of groups throughout the NSUN and EU - what is National Soverignty but Euroscepticism in the NSUN?