NationStates Jolt Archive

This document was authored by Texan Hotrodders, Omigodtheykilledkenny, and Gruenberg, and approved by the active NSO membership.

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The National Sovereignty Organization
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So what is the NSO, and what does it do? I've seen some folks either slander the NSO or raise questions about it, so I thought I'd let y'all in on a few things that answer some of the challenges that might be raised and questions that might be asked about the NSO.

What is the NSO?

The NSO is an organization that is composed of members who have an interest in national sovereignty. It is an organization dedicated to promoting the right to self-determination for all nations through reasoned debate and discussion as well as United Nations legislation.

What are its goals?

To get an idea of what the NSO is here to do, just take a look at our mission statement.

The National Sovereignty Organization (the "NSO") aims to actively work to promote a respect of national sovereignty by the NationStates United Nations in the belief that this will lead to greater unity, tolerance, and understanding among the membership of said body.

What does it do?

The NSO does quite a few things, but the end result is generally providing legislative and ideological balance in the UN. Our very pro-sovereignty legislation, particularly blockers on controversial issues, tends to get a lot of attention, but we're not here to just block future UN legislation. Far from it, as you can see (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11565387&postcount=2).

Why does the NSO do these things?

I'm glad you asked. ;) Our members often have a lot of reasons for participating, but primarily it seems to be because they believe that the UN should legislate in certain areas and not in others, whether because they think the UN is ineffective and counterproductive when it comes to some things, has a particular proper scope of legal authority, or some combination of these.

For myself, I wrote an essay a long time ago explaining the reasons for my position, and it reflects many of the reasons that others choose to be members of the NSO and promote national sovereignty, though we don't always entirely agree in every detail or even in major ideological categories. In any case, here's the essay (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11565395&postcount=3).

How can I join the NSO?

If you’re interested in joining the NSO, whether as a full member or as an Observer, just register on our forum (http://s11.invisionfree.com/NatSovOrg/index.php?act=idx) and that counts as your application to join. Once you’ve done so, your application will be reviewed by an Administrator and then discussed by the members and/or observers, and if their consensus is that you should be admitted, you will be. On a rare occasion, we reject membership applications, but it is rare indeed and with very good reason.

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IMPORTANT NOTE: Any abuse of the NSO members or thread hijacking will be reported to Moderation. Yes, that means you. And especially that guy over there.

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NSO Legislation
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Below is a listing of UN resolutions that were either sponsored or co-sponsored by NSO members and/or observers. Many of the Observers on the list are former members of the NSO, including Enn, Hirota, Venerable Libertarians, and Yelda. You can see that our members have produced the largest amount of legislation by any organization in the UN, with the possible exception of the United Nations Old Guard, and that our legislation tends to be of very high quality indeed because of our high standards for legislation.

NSO Legislation and Authors

#31: Wolfish Convention on POW (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=30) -- Wolfish
#64: Tracking Near Earth Objects (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=63) -- Mikitivity
#67: Needle Sharing Prevention (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=66) -- Mikitivity
#73: Habeas Corpus (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=72) -- Enn
#75: The Nuclear Terrorism Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=74) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#76: Good Samaritan Laws (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=75) -- Mikitivity
#79: Reformed Literacy Initiative (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=78) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#87: Repeal "Legalize Prostitution" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=86) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#89: Rights of indigenous peoples (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=88) -- Hirota
#90: Tsunami Warning System (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=89) -- Mikitivity (co-author)
#94: Right to Self-Protection (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=93) -- Texan Hotrodders
#95: Repeal "Education for All" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=94) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#96: UNWODC (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=95) -- Venerable libertarians
#98: Eradicate Smallpox (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=97) -- Allemande
#102: Repeal "Required Basic Healthcare" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=101) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#105: National Systems of Tax (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=104) [Repealed] -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#109: Nuclear Armaments (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=108) -- Flibbleites
#110: United Nations Security Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=109) -- Texan Hotrodders
#112: Repeal "National Systems of Tax" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=111) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#116: Mitigation of Large Reservoirs (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=115) -- Mikitivity
#117: Microcredit Bazaar (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=116) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#119: UNCoESB (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=118) -- Venerable libertarians
#120: Repeal "Ban Chemical Weapons" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=119) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#125: Repeal "DVD region removal" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=124) -- Jey
#127: Diplomatic Immunity (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=126) -- Cobdenia/Ausserland
#128: Representation in Taxation (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=127) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#129: Repeal "Protection of Dolphins Act" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=128) -- Yelda
#130: Global Food Distribution Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=129) -- Yelda
#132: UN Small Business Education (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=131) -- Powerhungry Chipmunks
#133: Repeal "UCPL" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=132) -- Gruenberg
#134: Rights of Neutral States (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=133) -- Wolfish
#136: Repeal "Right to Divorce" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=135) -- Gruenberg/Fonzoland
#137: Repeal "Save the forests of the World" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=136) -- Fonzoland
#138: Artistic Freedom (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=137) -- Jey/Fonzoland
#139: Repeal "MANDATORY RECYCLING" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=138) -- Gruenberg/Jey (co-authors)
#141: Repeal "The Law of the Sea" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=140) -- Gruenberg
#144: Repeal "Gay Rights" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=143) -- Omigodtheykilledkenny
#146: Workplace Safety Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=145) -- Yelda
#147: Abortion Legality Convention (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=146) -- Gruenberg/Omigodtheykilledkenny
#148: Meteorological Cooperation (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=147) -- St Edmund
#150: UN Demining Survey (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=149) -- Gruenberg
#151: Nuclear Non-Proliferation Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=150) -- Yelda
#152: Maritime Safety Standards Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=151) -- Cobdenia
#153: Repeal "Scientific Freedom" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=152) -- Jey
#154: Nuclear Energy Research Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=153) -- Yelda (co-author)
#155: Waste Disposal Covenant (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=154) -- Fonzoland
#156: UN Patent Law (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=155) -- Ceorana
#157: Repeal "Citizen Rule Required" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=156) -- Jey (co-author)
#158: UN Recycling Commission (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=157) -- Gruenberg
#159: Patients Rights Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=158) -- Yelda
#161: Repeal "Replanting Trees" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=160) -- Jey (co-author)
#163: UN Copyright Convention (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=162) -- Ceorana/Ausserland
#164: Individual Self-Determination (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=163) -- Hirota (submitted)
#166: Freedom of Scientific Research (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=165) -- Jey (submitted)
#168: UN Counterterrorism Initiative (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=167) -- Cluichstan
#169: Child Pornography Prohibition (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=168) -- Gruenberg
#171: UN Educational Aid Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=170) -- Gruenberg
#175: Individual Working Freedoms (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=174) -- Gruenberg
#176: Repeal "Keep The World Disease-Free!" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=175) -- Jey
#178: Outlaw Necrophilia (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=177) -- Karmicaria
#179: Freedom of Assembly (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=178) -- Mikitivity
#180: Fair Sentencing Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=179) -- Gruenberg
#181: Repeal "Establish UNWCC" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=180) -- Yelda* (http://www.nationstates.net/iron_felix)
#182: Marriage Protection Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=181) -- Ausserland (co-author)
#185: Repeal "Hearing Impaired Aid Act" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=184) -- Gruenberg
#187: UN Fair Wage Convention (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=186) -- Yelda* (http://www.nationstates.net/iron_felix)
#188: Repeal "World Heritage List" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=187) -- Kivisto
#189: Repeal "Due Process" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=188) -- Karmicaria
#191: UN Drug Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=190) -- Jey
#192: Sexual Privacy Act (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=191) -- Karmicaria
#193: Extradordinary Rendition (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=192) -- Gruenberg
#194: No Ex Post Facto Laws (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=193) -- Yelda
#195: Healthcare Certification (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=194) -- Ausserland (co-author)
#196: Repeal "UN Educational Committee" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=195) -- Gruenberg* (http://www.nationstates.net/quintessence_of_dust)
#197: Continuity Of Government (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=196) -- Yelda
#198: Emigration Rights (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=197) -- Kivisto/Yelda
#199: Repeal "Free education" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=198) -- Jey
#200: Radiological Terrorism (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=199) -- Gruenberg* (http://www.nationstates.net/quintessence_of_dust)
#202: Repeal "UN Biological Weapons Ban" (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=201) -- Karmicaria
#204: UN Bio Agent Convention (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=203) -- Kivisto


NSO Legislation Category Breakdown

Human Rights - 9
Free Trade - 9
International Security - 6
Social Justice - 4
Moral Decency - 4
Environmental - 3
The Furtherment of Democracy - 4
Global Disarmament - 1
Educational - 1
Advancement of Industry - 1

Repeal Environmental - 5
Repeal Free Trade - 4
Repeal Human Rights - 4
Repeal Social Justice - 3
Repeal The Furtherment of Democracy - 1

Total - 59

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A Case for a Pro-Sovereignty United Nations
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Since there have been some serious questions by both Vastiva and Goobergunchia about reasons for staying in the UN and being a proponent of national sovereignty, and I figure there are a fair number of people who just "don't get it" when it comes to why I do what I do with regard to national sovereignty, I thought it would be more efficient just to lay it all out here once and for all rather than throwing it out in pieces that when taken by themselves might not make much sense. My position on national sovereignty is not really based on my RL political ideals and does not stem from just one argument. The reason I find national sovereignty so compelling is that there are many good reasons to support it (in some form or another). I don't go around constantly rambling about the issue just because I'm some sort of political philosopher with an axe to grind. I like balance and practicality, and I believe national sovereignty provides both.

Scope and Action

My position (IC) has in the past been that the United Nations, being an international organization, has as its proper scope of legal authority international law, by which I mean that the UN should address issues of true international importance through practical and effective legislation that shows at least a modicum of respect for the valid cultural, technological, and biological differences of the membership. This is very similar to the position I hold when it comes to the proper scope of national authority, provincial or colonial authority, municipal authority, and individual authority. In my view, each political entity that exists has its own issues to attend to, and it should be attending to those issues rather than the issues of others. In essence, each entity is sovereign over those affairs which are within its proper scope of authority. This position is one that protects each of our freedom to govern while leaving plenty for the UN to do in the interests of whatever international problem there happens to be. There are many, many international issues that can be addressed, and it is my opinion that we've just hit the tip of the iceberg as far as good international law is concerned (and I intend to demonstrate that). The good thing about NationStates is that there are always new and exciting challenges popping up, and we can take advantage of that by making sure to look for them, whether it's by looking at RL international politics and seeing that they deal with a problem that we have here as well, or by noticing an international problem highlighted by a fellow nation's roleplaying and seeing a good way the UN can address this.

Precendent and Resentment

There are also practical benefits to limiting the scope of the UN to international affairs. The first deals with avoiding the setting of a bad precedent, and is both an IC and OOC argument. By interfering in the domestic affairs of UN member states through legislation that overrides their laws governing intranational policy and disrespects their sovereignty, the UN has established a very dangerous precedent. While the majority of UN members agree with most of the domestic policies mandated by the UN at this time, in the future that may change, much as such a change occurred early in the game (according to certain players who were around then). If the political orientation of the majority were to change (and there are signs that it eventually will), then the current majority will have created an unfortunate problem for themselves. If (for example) more authoritarian and capitalistic nations were to gain a majority anytime soon and the national sovereignty movement is not there to prevent it, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would start repealing the current laws and quickly begin passing legislation that screws with the current majority's domestic policies. Why would they do such a horrible thing? Because the majority previously in power fucked them over (or at least that's what they have cause to think). Not only would you have a majority of nations who are resentful of previous acts by this body, but they would have a powerful weapon to use against you, a weapon that you gave them when you enforced your policies on them. They can now legitimately and accurately describe you as a hypocrite and point to previous legislation as a wonderful justification for overriding your national sovereignty and enforcing policies you find horrendous and immoral. Personally, I agree with the sentiment of the majority of the domestic policies put in place by the UN, but I'm not willing to take the risk of causing deep resentment and endangering my own freedom in the future by taking advantage of the UN's power to enforce my domestic policies on others. Admittedly, overriding national sovereignty may seem to be worth the risk if you think you are creating significant benefit by doing so. Unfortunately, there’s not much benefit in that sort of legislation. Most of the nations who were doing what the resolution says they shouldn’t before it passed will just continue to do that thing after it has passed by exploiting loopholes in the text. In the vast majority of cases the very nations you wish to improve by these policies are making them completely ineffective at accomplishing their goals, which in the end means that the policies largely fail miserably to do what they are supposed to do.

Liberty and Diversity

One further benefit to the national sovereignty perspective is that it is by itself very practical when it comes to the various technological, biological, political, economic, and cultural perspectives that occur. The NationStates UN is far more diverse than the RL UN, and (combined with the game mechanics limitation that resolutions must affect all nations) this makes it very difficult for the UN to appropriately address the needs of its members, especially when those members can be sentient dolphins or potatoes, have spacefaring technology or still be unable to make fire, and have cultures that make what would seem like heinous laws to most of us very necessary and appropriate. Essentially, the national sovereignty perspective provides member nations with the freedom to make laws that are commensurate with their circumstances. It provides you, the member, greater freedom to enact those laws. It provides you the player with a chance to be more free to run your country (while still allowing for many important international issues to be addressed by the UN), which is what makes the game fun for most of us.

FAQ and Fiction

The argument that’s often used by those opposed to the sovereignty argument is one that I completely understand and sympathize with. It’s the traditional view that the below portion of the FAQ outlines the purpose of the UN (which they say is to enforce our personal views upon all members or something to that effect). This view, as far as I can tell, has often been supported by established players and used as a final “end of line” argument against the sovereignty perspective. I believed it myself for a long time, having been told of it by those who came before me. As is my custom, I eventually began questioning and re-examining the basic nature of the UN (such as I periodically do with most of my beliefs). As part of the re-examination I started doing a more thorough analysis of the FAQ and eventually arrived at the conclusion that it did not say what I had previously believed it said.

Here is the relevant portion of the FAQ:

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest.

Pay particular attention to the bolded portion. Let’s first look at a literal interpretation of this phrase. It says that “the UN is [our] chance to mold the rest of the world to [our] vision.” It doesn’t say, “Enforce your policies on others” nor does it specifically assign a purpose to the UN (and you’ll note that nowhere did Max give the UN an explicitly stated purpose even though he had ample means to do so). It simply says that we have a chance to use the UN to take a particular action. When we consider the literary context of this portion of the FAQ, this bolded phrase begins to make more sense. Max wrote the FAQ in a style consistent with his other writing, which is partly tongue-in-cheek, satirical, and cynical (while still being basically informative). The bolded phrase certainly fits this model, as it is certainly satirical and cynical to suggest that the UN is solely for molding the rest of the world to our individual vision (because such an act would be tantamount to tyranny). Interestingly, this satirical and cynical comment by Max turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy when people used it to justify their tyranny over the other nations in the UN. There’s a certain delicious irony in that, which I suspect (based on my limited knowledge) Max would enjoy.

Connectivity and Responsibility

The UN is the only body with the very real power to take actions that can significantly affect every nation in the world. This is an immense power and an immense organization that binds us all together in its common affect upon us through its legislation. The UN is connected to regional politics, regional security, national prestige, international standards, and power over national statistics. Given the incredible power the UN has and its connections to so many aspects of the game, it seems vitally important to ensure that the UN is used responsibly. By this I mean that the UN is of incredible enough significance that it should not be used to further on nation’s domestic policy agenda or even a group of nation’s domestic policy agenda. I also mean that when addressing international matters we should be responsible and acknowledge the complexity and diversity of the membership of the UN. In the long run such stewardship will serve us well and is far less likely to result in the kind of resentment and abuses that have occurred when the UN is using the more traditional anti-sovereignty approach.

I've made some formatting changes to this. Y'all know you're free to post in this thread, right? :p

Well, I haven't really bothered with 'observing' the NSO for about a year now, so it may not be right having Habeas Corpus there. Not objecting to its inclusion in principle (it is nice to see it listed somewhere), just in the interests of accuracy.

I'm not sure ISD belongs in the list either, though I realise it is only there because of who submitted it. That resolution is about as non nat sov friendly as a resolution can be, and could cause confusion for those nat sovers new to things and looking for info.

Speaking as the man who created the list, you're both overruled! So shut up.

Oh, and TH: you forgot Wolfish's proposals.

I agree with Kenny about y'all being overruled. Frankly, we had to draw the line at including legislation somewhere, and being either a Member or Observer was it. And considering that both Hirota and Enn were full Members at one time and are currently holding Observer status, I think they're fine on the list.

Enn, if you would like your Observer status at the NSO terminated, just send me a PM on the forum.

Kenny, I didn't forget Wolfish, I was just being lazy.

I'm happy to remain an observer - it allows me to keep an eye on your evil antics :)

I'm happy to remain an observer - it allows me to keep an eye on your evil antics :)

Some of them, yes. :cool:

I may go back there (IC) at some stage, so long-distance Observer will do.

Hey, I've just created an account. Looking for member status

I agree with Kenny about y'all being overruled. Frankly, we had to draw the line at including legislation somewhere, and being either a Member or Observer was it. And considering that both Hirota and Enn were full Members at one time and are currently holding Observer status, I think they're fine on the list.

Enn, if you would like your Observer status at the NSO terminated, just send me a PM on the forum.

Kenny, I didn't forget Wolfish, I was just being lazy.

Well, my government is not only happy to see the resolutions it has sponsored included, but would also like to point out that Mikitivity was a co-sponsor of the Tsunami Warning System resolution and also an author (unlisted) for the Ballast Water resolution. In general my government strives to find the balance between meaningful international scoped resolutions whilst recognizing the sovereignty of member states.

Res. #90 has been added to the master list (http://z11.invisionfree.com/NatSovOrg/index.php?showtopic=239), but since your contribution to Ballast Water is unlisted, it will not be included. Kenny has spoken.

The list here has been updated to keep pace with the master list.

The list and category breakdown have been updated. Feel free to point out any errors.

Feel free to add "Rights of the Disabled", the resolution by me, to the list.

Feel free to add "Rights of the Disabled", the resolution by me, to the list.

Will do. Make sure to request its addition on the NSO forum too. :)

Done. Thank you.

I just put the legislation list through an update. Please let me know if you see any mistakes.

*Cough* Maritime Neutrality *cough*

*Cough* Maritime Neutrality *cough*

This from the guy who only just now remembered he's an NSO member... :p

Either way, I'll make sure to add it in the next update.

Are we a member of this? We've gone through several ambassadors in the last few years, we're renewing our diplomatic ties.

-Raversalism

Are we a member of this? We've gone through several ambassadors in the last few years, we're renewing our diplomatic ties.

-Raversalism

According to our records your application to join was rejected.

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

According to our records your application to join was rejected.

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

Ok. Well the current regime issues apologies for the prior regimes anti national sovereignty rhetoric.