NationStates Jolt Archive

UN Educational Aid Act
Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Educational
Proposed by: Gruenberg

Description: The United Nations,

Firmly convinced that a high quality of education is worth securing for all people,

Acknowledging that some nations, especially those with developing economies or poor infrastructure, or these experiencing problems of internal stability, may experience understandable difficulties in providing such services,

Determined to help all people achieve access to education, and to work with, rather than against, nations and institutions encountering particular problems in this regard:

1. Proclaims it the duty of nations to ensure opportunities for education and training are reasonably accessible for all their nationals, and especially for children and young adults;

2. Declares its support for all projects aimed at increasing the availability of good, free or affordable educational services;

3. Condemns all forms of unfair and unreasonable discrimination with national educational systems, and motions for effective remedies to such;

4. Promotes schemes such as distance learning courses, part time adult education universities, and opportunities for deferred study, to ensure that those with jobs, young children or other responsibilities are able to benefit from the opportunities of education;

5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
- solicit voluntary donations from national governments, charitable and other organizations, and individuals;
- organize international conferences on educational methods, relevant technologies, academic subjects, and any other relevant topics;
- act as a point of liaison for any international academic or educational projects seeking assistance in the acquisition of funding, resources or membership;
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;

6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;

7. Encourages nations to ensure a sustainable supply of good teachers, educators, instructors and other educational professionals, through:
- providing small bursaries and grants to those seeking to train as educational professionals;
- ensuring reasonable pay and benefits for those working in the public education sector;
- engaging in the creation of opportunities for those in other industries to retrain and enter the educational profession;
- rigorously checking such applicants for history of violent or sexual abuse, especially involving children, and prevent any applicants who are considered a significant risk to children from obtaining teaching posts;

8. Also recognises that education is not solely an institutional prerogative, and as such requests that nations respect the importance of family and community education programs and teaching systems, formal or otherwise.
This proposal, jointly authored by myself and Mrs Jiffjeff, has now reached quorum. Should it stay there, it'll go to vote on Wednesday.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

Jiffjeff....

I better reread this carefully then...

All of our textbooks used to be in the public domain. Those parts of any textbook written by a Discoraversalist still are. Consider it our gift to the educational system :)

All of our textbooks used to be in the public domain. Those parts of any textbook written by a Discoraversalist still are. Consider it our gift to the educational system :)

We prefer not to use textbooks that have the word "copyright" on every bleedin' page.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

All of our textbooks used to be in the public domain. Those parts of any textbook written by a Discoraversalist still are. Consider it our gift to the educational system :)
Actually one of the schools in The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites looked into using a Discoraversalist textbook, they found the content to be subpar and the materials used were too flammable to be practical.

Henry Acker
Minister of Education

HEY! Education, not Copyright! Please dear gods, ejakashun!

I'm surprised you didn't include a clause banning the use of protectionist devices on educational items. :p

OOC: Norderia is right, get back on fucking topic please.

And once more, the representative of Discoraversalism drags a discussion off-topic to beat his pet dead horse. You'd think that after all this time, even such an arrogant and insensitive individual would get a clue.

And to bring this back to a semblance of being on topic, Ausserland will vote for this well-crafted proposal. We find the 7th clause particularly excellent in its encouragement of "seeding" the educational system with experienced professionals from other fields.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

We will support this fine proposal, provided there are no misplaced apostrophes.

Alright, I've reread it (since Jiffjeff was mentioned) and I find it to be fine.

I shall vote for.

We at first had a problem with it since you mentioned only children and young adults.. figuring this would leave out elder adults but see they clause 4 would cover them getting additional eduction later in life that they may have missed or was not present when they were in their youth and an eduction was there for them.

We like this one and will support it.... when it comes to vote before the full membership and ohly hope it does get that chance....

Zarta Warden,
Zeldon Ambassador UN

The Allied States of Cashiek supports this resolution and upon its movement into the voting floor, we will support it. This proposal is neither micro-managment nor redundant and is actually useful.

We'll vote for. Best of luck Mrs Jiffjeff. :D

Esteemed members of the United Nations,

I do find this a commendable proposal and will vote for it on behalf of the Helmsmark people. We value education very highly and do wish to promote it wherever possible.

Sincerely,

Hans Larsen
Foreign Secretary
Republic of Helmsmark

We would like to know how the resolution is supposed to defend public education system from the interference of great corporations, which may have interests in branding their products in schools through donations and other types of support.

Kindest Regards,

The people of Sconchiglioso Zeta.

We would like to know how the resolution is supposed to defend public education system from the interference of great corporations, which may have interests in branding their products in schools through donations and other types of support.
Through clause 6, "the financing of educational programs" is a national prerogative. Therefore, your national government is allowed to set laws on, in this case, corporate finance in the public education system.

I didn't take this exact scenario into consideration because it seems too specific for a UN resolution: it's meant to be more general in scope. As such, the resolution does not deal with the subject in explicit terms...however, its clause 6 does ensure that future UN resolutions would have a hard time forcing your schools to accept corporate donations.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

Thank you very much.

Asiatic States salutes the great nation of Gruenberg and votes affirmative, as well as asking regional delegate to vote affirmative as well.

Asiatic States, not to get too far off topic, also wishes that the repeal to the Hearing Impaired Aid Act will reach quorum soon.

Finally, Asiatic States would like to commend Gruenberg on its actions to make the U.N. an effective and useful organization.

Regards,
Talon of the Dominion of Asiatic States

We'd like to welcome the honorable Talon of the Dominion of Asiatic States to the Assembly. We join in his commendation of the distinguished nation of Gruenberg for its many contributions to the work of the NSUN.

Ausserland has cast its vote FOR this fine legislation.

By order of His Royal Highness, the Prince of Ausserland:

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

This is a well organized and thought out proposal. The People's Republic of MCOCYG will support this document and gives mad props to the author.

PR MCOCYG

Ausserland will vote for this well-crafted proposal. We find the 7th clause particularly excellent in its encouragement of "seeding" the educational system with experienced professionals from other fields.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

The Supreme Emperor concurs with Ausserland entirerly. The Holy Empire of Gerzam will be voting for this wonderful proposal as well.

Sincerly,

Klaus von Dunden, current Minister of Education

C'mon people, the more educated people are the more unsettled and panicky they become. The less educated people are the more they follow the rules without questions and panic less. Plus educated people take a lot longer to accept new laws and in a crisis they move a lot slower then people who are told where to go. So lets gun down this poor bill together, or we'll all suffer.

Be forced to spend money on other nations' Education Systems?
"5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
...
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"

Our foreign aid goes where we want it to go. For evey dollar spent by Greedandmoria on foreign nations because of this bill, we will spend $2 less in foreign aid not "required" by the UN.

Also, I don't understand this part: "where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"
OF COURSE THE COUNTRY RECEIVING THE AID WILL APPROVE IT! Not only is this poorly written, but it is just a poor resolution that should not pass, but will b/c of all the bleeding hearts out there athat can't see the forest from the tree huggers.

In summary VOTE NO!

The Commonwealth of Triderestan approves of this UN measure to better improve education throughout the world and supports with a grand majority to pass this resolution.

The democratically elected President of Triderestan commends the United Nations on its appeal to education for all regardless of age, gender, heritage, or financial standing. He strongly urges all regional members of Niflheim, the Niflheim UN Delegate Sparksalot, and in fact all UN member nations to approve this resolution.

The Triderestani Government also acknowledges and greatly appreciates the considersation given to countires with struggling economies. Education has always been a top priority for Triderestan, along with social welfare and law and order. Triderestan prides itself on making education available for all who seek it, and with this such resolution, hopes that all UN member nations will be able to provide the same for its citizens.

What the hell? I'm going to have to break the trend and vote FOR a resolution. A fine sovereignty-friendly piece from the Gruenbergers, I see. Y'all come down to my office for some tequila anytime you like.

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce

Be forced to spend money on other nations' Education Systems?
"5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
...
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"

Our foreign aid goes where we want it to go. For evey dollar spent by Greedandmoria on foreign nations because of this bill, we will spend $2 less in foreign aid not "required" by the UN.

Also, I don't understand this part: "where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"
OF COURSE THE COUNTRY RECEIVING THE AID WILL APPROVE IT! Not only is this poorly written, but it is just a poor resolution that should not pass, but will b/c of all the bleeding hearts out there athat can't see the forest from the tree huggers.

In summary VOTE NO!

As I recall, the proposal doesn't require your nation to give aid to anyone. In fact, Section 5, the section you quoted an excerpt from, specifically mentions "voluntary" donations.

5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
- solicit voluntary donations from national governments, charitable and other organizations, and individuals;
- organize international conferences on educational methods, relevant technologies, academic subjects, and any other relevant topics;
- act as a point of liaison for any international academic or educational projects seeking assistance in the acquisition of funding, resources or membership;
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;

Ironic that we have a national representative such as yourself who can't even read carefully opposing a resolution to further education.

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce

This will be the first of many times I use the hilarious "maybe you should vote for this, because you're clearly in need of reading lessons zomgrofl" line:
Be forced to spend money on other nations' Education Systems?
No, it doesn't force you. Why the fuck would you think that, unless you either didn't bother to read the proposal (dumb) or didn't understand it (really dumb)?

Contributions to UNEAF are voluntary. Pity I didn't include that exact word in the proposal, huh?

Our foreign aid goes where we want it to go. For evey dollar spent by Greedandmoria on foreign nations because of this bill, we will spend $2 less in foreign aid not "required" by the UN.
Putting aside the fact this proposal does not require you to spending a single fucking dollar, that's an astonishingly bizarre policy. What are your non-UN allies going to think?

Also, I don't understand this part: "where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"
OF COURSE THE COUNTRY RECEIVING THE AID WILL APPROVE IT!
No, they won't. And if anybody offers to have UNEAF fund sex education courses in Gruenberg, we'll turn it down.

At least, though, you now admit you don't understand the proposal.

Not only is this poorly written
You know, I always dislike this line. I have no qualms about voting against a proposal - but when it's just because I disagree with it, I don't try to pretend it's badly written.

How is it poorly written? Go on, show me the stylistic and grammatical errors, the blatant typos, the confusing wording. Go on.

but will b/c of all the bleeding hearts out there athat can't see the forest from the tree huggers.
Well, Gruenberg spends 0 on Education (as compared to your 5%) and 0 on The Environment, Social Welfare, and so on, so not sure what you're talking about there.

If, though, you mean it'll be voted in by the left, and opposed by the right...pretty much. That's what I was counting on - why else would I write what amounts to a national rights resolution in such puffed-up - though I don't believe poorly composed - prose?

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

If, though, you mean it'll be voted in by the left, and opposed by the right...pretty much. That's what I was counting on - why else would I write what amounts to a national rights resolution in such puffed-up - though I don't believe poorly composed - prose?

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

We're getting pretty good at manipulating the fluffies, aren't we, my friend?

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

From what I can see it is a good proposal. It seems to do no harm from what I can see, while being a signifcant help to international cooperation in education systems. I belive I will end up voting for this unless I have missed something or other.(I'll wait a while just in case)

About what Greedandmoria said... I find it funny that you said this infringed national soverignty and also that it is badly written. This proposal is neither and a very much doubt gruenberg will ever submit something that is either of those.

We're getting pretty good at manipulating the fluffies, aren't we, my friend?
Ya I noticed it at a glance looks like it does more then it really does good job:D .

I like how this resolution is written in true UN style in that it doesn't really require that member nations actually do anything. It "encourages" and "promotes," yes; but that is a far cry from "mandates" and "requires." Essentially, the bulk of this resolution is mere verbiage.

The Commonwealth does, however, support the idea of an international fund for nations struggling to fund education programs and thus votes in favor of "Educational Aid." Our one concern is that the resolution does not seem to create a mechanism for ensuring that only nations that actually need aid are the ones that are receiving it. While my nation has no plans of drawing money from this common pool of funds, we want to be certain that any monetary contributions made by Bricenia go to nations that actually need aid. But perhaps this issue can be settled at a later date.

The Commonwealth of Bricenia votes FOR "Educational Aid."

Our one concern is that the resolution does not seem to create a mechanism for ensuring that only nations that actually need aid are the ones that are receiving it.
Well that is what the commite and the independant advisory council are for.(read bold print)

- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;

also
But perhaps this issue can be settled at a later date.
even if that was a problem it could not be settled later. Resolutions don't have amendments made on them. If it passes any errors in it are there untill a repeal.

How is it poorly written? Go on, show me the stylistic and grammatical errors, the blatant typos, the confusing wording. Go on.

Well it does go on and on and on; a constant stream of reasonable argument and discourse. Eventually one starts to get frustrated and cry out, "My God, there has to be something in this resolution that screws my nation, why would someone write so much text that is all so reasonable?" But nothing nasty is found. So I read it again, and again, but nothing nasty is found. Frustrating really.

Now a properly written resolution would have my nation bankrupt by a single three word clause somewhere in the middle of the resolution or else cause the UN to enter into a paradox of legal insanity which would cause the destruction of civilization as we know it. Like the World Heritage List.

;)

Well, amazing!
I've been "manipulated" at my first post here.
Sounds good. :)

The Democratic States of Bevatt does not always agree with the delegate from Gruenberg, but this resolution shows why Gruenberg is valued as a voice within the UN.

Well that is what the commite and the independant advisory council are for.

I have a question pertaining to this. Though, I may be asking the wrong individual (please forgive me, I'm rather new to the game).

A nation that funds education well, such as Triderestan, but as a result in other areas is lacking severely, would said nation receive funding for educational systems in order to reallocate national funds once used in the educational system to where they are much more needed?

I understand that could be considered a dire issue to deal with, not wanting bombs and other deadly weapons to be built with the money once used to publish educational material and pay teachers. But, money saved while receiving funding could be put toward many, many peaceful and socially progressive innitiatives and government sponsored organizations.

Psh. I am not manipulated. All this does is ensure (if we take "entrusts" as a strong word) that no more "Right to Learn Evolution" sorts of Resolutions get in. That doesn't much bug me, though. Nothing here makes me de-socialize my education system.

I have a question pertaining to this. Though, I may be asking the wrong individual (please forgive me, I'm rather new to the game).

A nation that funds education well, such as Triderestan, but as a result in other areas is lacking severely, would said nation receive funding for educational systems in order to reallocate national funds once used in the educational system to where they are much more needed?

I understand that could be considered a dire issue to deal with, not wanting bombs and other deadly weapons to be built with the money once used to publish educational material and pay teachers. But, money saved while receiving funding could be put toward many, many peaceful and socially progressive innitiatives and government sponsored organizations.

The fund is for education systems. It is specifically meant to be allocated to education systems. If your system meets the requirements of this Resolution, and perhaps, then some, then you would likely not be receiving any funds from UNEAF.

And once more, the representative of Discoraversalism drags a discussion off-topic to beat his pet dead horse. You'd think that after all this time, even such an arrogant and insensitive individual would get a clue.

And to bring this back to a semblance of being on topic, Ausserland will vote for this well-crafted proposal. We find the 7th clause particularly excellent in its encouragement of "seeding" the educational system with experienced professionals from other fields.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

IC: Um, how can you possibly blame our delegation?!? That yall chose to turn this into a copyright discussion pleases me, but we were talking about textbooks.

Ah, I see now! This is what you have always done! Though we have been absent from this discussion for hours you still try to hold us responsible for the words of others.

Touche my friend, touche.

(Totally off topic, a conversation better had on the thread it used to live on) Let me know if you and your cohorts ever start work on that trademark resolutions. I liked that one :) Actually does serve to promote art, and all that rot.

C'mon people, the more educated people are the more unsettled and panicky they become. The less educated people are the more they follow the rules without questions and panic less. Plus educated people take a lot longer to accept new laws and in a crisis they move a lot slower then people who are told where to go. So lets gun down this poor bill together, or we'll all suffer.

IC: I believe you are speaking in jest sir? Still, we shall take your bait. You are educating your people wrong, clearly. Children aren't necessarily adult to question, but adults are in most countries. You will find most centers of fringe groups "questioning" each other.

If one learns a little history, one becomes a lot less panicky. One learns to put politics, crime, etc. in perspective. One sees that winning this war is less important then preventing the next war.

On the other hand, our nation keeps it's compartive economic advantage by turning well trained IT workers, and servicing and improving upon open source software. We'd hate to lose our edge :)

From what I can see it is a good proposal. It seems to do no harm from what I can see, while being a signifcant help to international cooperation in education systems. I belive I will end up voting for this unless I have missed something or other.(I'll wait a while just in case)

About what Greedandmoria said... I find it funny that you said this infringed national soverignty and also that it is badly written. This proposal is neither and a very much doubt gruenberg will ever submit something that is either of those.

Ya I noticed it at a glance looks like it does more then it really does good job:D .Shhhh!!! No one tell NFC this is a "blocker"!! :eek:

A nation that funds education well, such as Triderestan, but as a result in other areas is lacking severely, would said nation receive funding for educational systems in order to reallocate national funds once used in the educational system to where they are much more needed?

I understand that could be considered a dire issue to deal with, not wanting bombs and other deadly weapons to be built with the money once used to publish educational material and pay teachers. But, money saved while receiving funding could be put toward many, many peaceful and socially progressive innitiatives and government sponsored organizations.
That's not a question I can answer definitively - it would be for UNEAF to determine.

However, the proposition sounds reasonable to me, so quite possibly.

Shhhh!!! No one tell NFC this is a "blocker"!! :eek:

OOC: Blockers are fun :) Every new comer gets all upset, trying to prove it's a blocker. Then those following the thread have to burst their bubble, telling them that most of us know a blocker when we see one :)

Actually one of the schools in The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites looked into using a Discoraversalist textbook, they found the content to be subpar and the materials used were too flammable to be practical.

Henry Acker
Minister of Education

IC: Alas! You have are still using an outdated distribution model. Our textbooks are all digital.

Perhaps your schools didn't have enough laptops to go around? Can I interest you in our hundred unit laptop program? We give away cheap laptops to children in developing nations.

IC: Alas! You have are still using an outdated distribution model. Our textbooks are all digital.

Perhaps your schools didn't have enough laptops to go around? Can I interest you in our hundred unit laptop program? We give away cheap laptops to children in developing nations.
Actually I happen to have a picture of the textbook in question.
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2185_CIMG3042-1200.jpg
Although in hindsight the fact that the person evualating that textbook in question was a black mage might have had something to do with it but that is doubtful.

Henry Acker
Minister of Education
OOC: Boy the situtation with Dell and their laptop batteries is really coming in handy right now.

Actually I happen to have a picture of the textbook in question.
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2185_CIMG3042-1200.jpg
Although in hindsight the fact that the person evualating that textbook in question was a black mage might have had something to do with it but that is doubtful.

Henry Acker
Minister of Education
OOC: Boy the situtation with Dell and their laptop batteries is really coming in handy right now.

We offer free courses in malware extraction. Well you actually download the courses, and some of them are hard to uninstall... but that's more a fault of the crazy proprietary OS on some school computers.

After hearing all this, we decided to load your courses onto a test computer. Shortly thereafter, it went completely insane, and would have had to be destroyed had it not spontaneously burst into flames itself. No mages were involved in our tests.

(OOC: LOL, I'm just poking fun)

Two quarreling female figures enter the assembly hall. It is clear the Witchcliff duo is very much not in agreement over how to vote on the current resolution.

Panyer: We are voting for this resolution whether you like it or not. It will help protect our education system from outside meddling.

Kirin: No we bloody well aren't. All this piece of rubbish will do is prevent any progressive legislation have any sort of impact in the future. How can someone from The Preservers be pro education and even consider voting for this. That makes no sense.

Panyer: Easy, unlike you, I'm taking the whole resolution into consideration, not just one clause. This is a fine piece of legislation and will help lift education standards in all UN nations, not just ours.

Kirin: The rest of the resolution is fine, it is just that one blocking clause I don’t like, and I will not agree to vote for this while that is in there. We are voting against.

Panyer: Like hell, we are voting for.

Kirin: Against.

Panyer: For.

Kirin: All our votes have to be in agreement under orders from the Queen. Don’t think I haven’t figured out why you sent me to that bleeding basement after light bulbs. I will never vote for this legislation. As you know darn well, I hate blockers.

Panyer: Don’t you get it; the blocking clause will prevent any of the stupid nations passing legislation in the future that will lower our education standards. Imagine a resolution that makes us waste money on daft things like tap dancing lessons. Where do you think the money for that sort of thing would come from? That’s right, mathematics and language. Don’t think it would never happen either, just take a look at the passed resolutions list now. Lots of stupid stuff in there.

Kirin: It will also prevent decent legislation passing, such as increasing funding for higher education, which seems to be the poor cousin in most education systems. A blocker is a blocker. I just can’t agree to vote for this.

Panyer: Dammit Kirin, If you don’t agree to vote for, I’ll do something you will regret.

Kirin: You try anything and I’ll turn you into a spider and put you into one of Mrs. Jiffjeff’s desk drawers. I hear tarantula sandwiches are a particular favorite of hers.

Panyer: Bloody hell, miss goody goody seem to have grown a backbone recently, or did you steal it from one of the mutants in the basement? Fine, you won’t vote for, and I won’t vote against. Guess Witchcliff will have to abstain.

Kirin: Abstain it is then.

Panyer: Fine, I’m off to find some male companionship. There must be at least one man around who wants a good time, and even the ugliest specimen would be an improvement on you.

Kirin: Hah, sticks and stones oh so easy one, sticks and stones.

The Wolf Guardians']After hearing all this, we decided to load your courses onto a test computer. Shortly thereafter, it went completely insane, and would have had to be destroyed had it not spontaneously burst into flames itself. No mages were involved in our tests.

(OOC: LOL, I'm just poking fun)

I highey recommend you try using an open source operating system. Our software is designed in a popular open source environement, it's less likely to blow up their then on "Megacorps XP."

We are heartened by any UN proposal which will divert more funds towards free (read open source) educational software. Can you believe that in some countries people grab intellectual property rights on electronic learning programs then sue other groups working to improve education?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackboard_Inc.#Blackboard_Legal_Issues
(Remember kids, confine your discussion to educational issues ;))

Sun Loyalds stands up again, trying hard not to smile at the blocker.

"I am sure that Rono Pyandran has worked very hard on this to make it fair for all nations and the people inside, in no way would we vote a blocker but because it is such a well thought out and much needed proposal, the Cuation government will vote For it. Out of curiosity, would we be allowed to teach people that pink elephants are the reason for unemployment?"

Out of curiosity, would we be allowed to teach people that pink elephants are the reason for unemployment?
Yes...but you would be free to do without this resolution, anyway.

"Out of curiosity, would we be allowed to teach people that pink elephants are the reason for unemployment?"

I suppose, only I'm not sure it's accurate. Let's consider this. Pink, as in Pink Sheet I suppose.

Pink Sheet stocks are over-the-counter (OTC) securities that do not meet the listing standards required to trade on major stock exchanges due to their limited capitalization and/or the limited number of shares outstanding. With a few exceptions, Pink Sheet stocks are small, thinly-traded issues that often carry a great deal of risk. Most Pink Sheet stocks are not very liquid, and as such, bid/ask spreads are often quite wide. Online quotes for these securities are not "firm", but instead are meant to provide indications of price only.

Elephant is slang for a large institutional investor such as a mutual fund or pension fund. The term comes from the idea that these investors move huge amounts of money into and out of assets and sectors in a herd-like fashion, having a large impact on security prices when they move.

Isn't a Pink Elephant an oxymoron? Besides I'm not sure how mutual funds can cause unemployment. Oh wait, yes I can see how they can, especially if you invest in them.

Panyer: Fine, I’m off to find some male companionship. There must be at least one man around who wants a good time, and even the ugliest specimen would be an improvement on you.

Upon hearing this, Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich's assistant, Mr. Tarquin Fin-tim-lim-bim-whin-bim-lim-bus-stop-F'tang-F'tang-Ole-Biscuitbarrel, perks up.

http://www.montypython.art.pl/obrazki/lcmp19-15.jpg

What the hell? I'm going to have to break the trend and vote FOR a resolution. A fine sovereignty-friendly piece from the Gruenbergers, I see. Y'all come down to my office for some tequila anytime you like.

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce

"Sovereignty Friendly"? I think not --

"5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
...
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"

Where's the money going to come from? Oh, that's right, from UN Member Nations. Who's going to distribute the money? Of that's right, the UN Council. By definition, NOT SOVEREIGNTY FRIENDLY! :headbang:

Yes...but you would be free to do without this resolution, anyway.

I knew without, just making sure that we could if the resolution passed

Buisness

Isn't a Pink Elephant an oxymoron? Besides I'm not sure how mutual funds can cause unemployment. Oh wait, yes I can see how they can, especially if you invest in them.

No, I mean those things with trunks only pink. You would be suprised how many people this in Cuation but if we educate people on that anyway, we have a set escuse for anything that goes wrong.

Sun Loyalds

"Sovereignty Friendly"? I think not --

"5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
...
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"

Where's the money going to come from? Oh, that's right, from UN Member Nations. Who's going to distribute the money? Of that's right, the UN Council. By definition, NOT SOVEREIGNTY FRIENDLY! :headbang:

Rather than banging his head, the representative should try reading the proposal carefully:

5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
- solicit voluntary donations from national governments, charitable and other organizations, and individuals;
***
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;
[emphasis added]

There is absolutely nothing about soliciting voluntary contributions that in any way infringes upon the sovereignty of any nation. Period. Nor can the NSUN even provide money to a nation without that nation's consent.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

We offer free courses in malware extraction. Well you actually download the courses, and some of them are hard to uninstall... but that's more a fault of the crazy proprietary OS on some school computers.
OOC: What the hell does this have to do with the computer catching fire?

"Sovereignty Friendly"? I think not --
I have already explained this to you (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11555424&postcount=28). Did you purposefully ignore my response, or were you simply unable/unwilling to respond to it, or were you biologically incapable of reading and understanding it?

Where's the money going to come from?
Don't know why you need to ask - the answer's in the resolution:
"solicit voluntary donations from national governments, charitable and other organizations, and individuals

Oh, that's right, from UN Member Nations.
If they want, yes. But something that's voluntary is, by definition, sovereignty friendly.

Who's going to distribute the money?
Again, why ask this, when you can read the proposal? The UNEAF.

Of that's right, the UN Council.
The what?

Could someone who's actually read the proposal try arguing against it. It's terribly boring at the moment.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

I could try to argue against it but I would probably end up sounding uneducated...;) like everyone else who tries. That’s the problem with writing a good proposal, there’s nothing to really argue. You should try writing a really bad blocker/anti-sovereign proposal with a flashy name. I’ll go tooth-and-nail on THAT.

"Sovereignty Friendly"? I think not --

"5. Establishes the "UN Educational Advancement Fund" (UNEAF) to:
...
- provide funding for research projects, infrastructure development programs, academic journal distribution and any other approved academic or educational programs, where approved by both an independent advisory council to the UNEAF, and the national government(s) of any nation(s) receiving such aid;"

Where's the money going to come from? Oh, that's right, from UN Member Nations. Who's going to distribute the money? Of that's right, the UN Council. By definition, NOT SOVEREIGNTY FRIENDLY! :headbang:

The phrase "voluntary donations" earlier in Section 5 means that you only pay in if you want to. Read the damn resolution text, all of it.

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce

Could someone who's actually read the proposal try arguing against it. It's terribly boring at the moment.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

Funny how the folks who actually read it are voting FOR it, eh Rono?

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce

Funny how the folks who actually read it are voting FOR it, eh Rono?

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce
Perhaps, but my head isn't quite so big I think I've written a perfect proposal. I think it's good, and I'm proud of it, and I think it deserves to pass...but it must have its flaws (beyond "blocker waah"). I'm disappointed I haven't even been called a liberal yet.

Gruenberg, you have to be kidding. How on earth can a UN resolution be made here. The responsibility of Education rests with ruling governments. The commitment levels for such is best determined by those who rule their lands. Whether you or I agree with the levels of commitments, that's what life is all about. The self determination of what is righ and what is wrong. IF a country does not want to be passionate about Education, that is there problem.

Vote against the legislation and stop interfering in local governments right to self rule.

The UN is better pressed spending time on weeding out those who are not compliant with humanity guidlelines and those who seek to act corruptly against their own people, (and there are lots of those lunatics still on the planet!)

Ciao for now,

Kalymnos65
Vote No !

The responsibility of Education rests with ruling governments.
Agreed, which is why the proposal contains the clause: "6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;"

The commitment levels for such is best determined by those who rule their lands.Agreed, which is why the proposal contains the clause: "6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;

Whether you or I agree with the levels of commitments, that's what life is all about.Agreed, which is why the proposal contains the clause: "6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;"

The self determination of what is righ and what is wrong. Agreed, which is why the proposal contains the clause: "6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;"

IF a country does not want to be passionate about Education, that is there problem.Agreed, which is why the proposal contains the clause: "6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;"

Vote against the legislation and stop interfering in local governments right to self rule.
Why would you vote against this clause, if you believe in the right to self rule?

"6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;"
:confused:

Vote No !
By voting no, you are disagreeing with:

"6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;"


And yes, I referenced that clause a lot. That's because you clearly didn't see it, and it's rather important.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

Gruenberg, you have to be kidding. How on earth can a UN resolution be made here. The responsibility of Education rests with ruling governments. The commitment levels for such is best determined by those who rule their lands. Whether you or I agree with the levels of commitments, that's what life is all about. The self determination of what is righ and what is wrong. IF a country does not want to be passionate about Education, that is there problem.

Vote against the legislation and stop interfering in local governments right to self rule.

The UN is better pressed spending time on weeding out those who are not compliant with humanity guidlelines and those who seek to act corruptly against their own people, (and there are lots of those lunatics still on the planet!)

Ciao for now,

Kalymnos65
Vote No !

We'd like to issue a small challenge to the representative of Kalymnos65. We challenge him to explain specifically how this resolution is "interfering in local governments [sic] right to self rule". Perhaps, in preparing his response, he'll bother to carefully read the resolution.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador to the United Nations

Ceorana supports this. We have a great education system, and are consistently ranked well for smartness by the United Nations. Since most drafts I've seen for this category would hurt our system, I think a blocker that urges us to keep up the good work is perfectly acceptable.

The above script has been cleared by the Ceorana UN Office.

Kathryn Clinton
Secretary of Education
The Congressional Republic of Ceorana

Agios Nicosia - (Capital of Kalymnos)

In a stunning rebuttal the President of Kalymnos65 sacked the UN Ambassador on the grounds of authorised dismissal of the UN Proposal on Education.

El President Calypso decreed "that the UN Proposal is full of good will and intent to improve the quality of human life and the uplift of education standards should be endorsed by all !"

Until further notice the President will assume UN Amabassador responsibilities until such time as the government determines.

- End of Article
Hellas World News Service

Perhaps, but my head isn't quite so big I think I've written a perfect proposal. I think it's good, and I'm proud of it, and I think it deserves to pass...but it must have its flaws (beyond "blocker waah"). I'm disappointed I haven't even been called a liberal yet.

You liberal! :mad:

That help?

Well, given it doesn't make anyone force anyone to do anything, I'll put us down as a tentative 'yes'. Though that could change.

Anegri Favon,
UN Rep for the Remnants of Enn

Due to technical irregularities, this account is posting on behalf of the Remnants of Enn. Enn itself shouldn't exist, as it was destoryed following civil chaos.Why don't you just change your nation's pretitle to "Remnants"? :p

OOC: What the hell does this have to do with the computer catching fire?

OOC: Perhaps nothing. Hard to continue the discussion and stay OT, so I tried to veer back on topic.

Perhaps, but my head isn't quite so big I think I've written a perfect proposal. I think it's good, and I'm proud of it, and I think it deserves to pass...but it must have its flaws (beyond "blocker waah"). I'm disappointed I haven't even been called a liberal yet.

IC: Our distinguised Gruenberg representative seems to be making a career out of writing well written blockers. The don't violate any NSUN rules, because they each have the minimum required impact to avoid violation. Bravo!

Ceorana supports this. We have a great education system, and are consistently ranked well for smartness by the United Nations. Since most drafts I've seen for this category would hurt our system, I think a blocker that urges us to keep up the good work is perfectly acceptable.

The above script has been cleared by the Ceorana UN Office.

Kathryn Clinton
Secretary of Education
The Congressional Republic of Ceorana

Woah. I Disco U, agree completely with Kathryn Clinton. Let the other nations stay behind in their Tech level! We hope to keep our advantage as the only nation in the region with a rail gun large enough to fling a metal cannister into space :) (It might not work yet, but it is large enough).

I'm not even going to bother replying to most of what you've said, Disco, because much of it has already been covered in greater detail by others, including the mods. However, one thing needs addressing.


The rules for NS and the forums are ultimately under the control of Max Barry, who set up the game, wrote the initial coding and organised for Jolt to host it. The entire game was set up as a publicity stunt for his then new book Jennifer Government. He who pays the piper names the tune. It's entirely fair that he does so.

He has delegated responsibility for the game to several people.

The Admins ([violet], Sal and Pythag), who are AFAIK serious coders (unlike Max himself) make sure the game itself is running. They oversee any changes to the game code.

The Game Mods keep the game chugging along. They deal with rulebreakers within the game (TG spammers, UN multis etc) and game matters that don't require major recoding (such as Daily Issues and the Proposal Queue).

The Forum Mods oversee the forums. They deal with any problems on the forum itself (spammers, hijackers, moving topics etc). All game mods are forum mods, but not all forum mods are game mods.

Rules, AFAIK, are decided on by consensus between the admins, game mods and (in the case of forum rules) forum mods. AFAIK, appeals of mod rulings first go to other mods, then finally to [violet] or Sal. The mods may ask players for input into rules, but that is the extent of player influence.

The UN rules we currently use are heavily based upon the Enodian Protocols, set by the former mod Enodia. He set them because at the time he was almost the only mod looking after the UN Proposal Queue.
After the introduction of the repeal function, the Protocols needed changing as they longer fully fit the game code. So, the mods (in particular The Most Glorious Hack) went over the rules with a fine-tooth comb, and worked out a new set. Now we use the Most Glorious (or Hacked) Protocols.

That's who sets the rules and definitions used in NationStates.

It may seem like I'm merely restating things you know. But seriously, Discoraversalism, if you knew this you wouldn't have even considered writing that question.

This is exactly what I feared. I kind of expected it to be explained in a more democratic light though.

Agios Nicosia - (Capital of Kalymnos)

In a stunning rebuttal the President of Kalymnos65 sacked the UN Ambassador on the grounds of authorised dismissal of the UN Proposal on Education.

El President Calypso decreed "that the UN Proposal is full of good will and intent to improve the quality of human life and the uplift of education standards should be endorsed by all !"

Until further notice the President will assume UN Amabassador responsibilities until such time as the government determines.

- End of Article
Hellas World News Service

We were very pleased to learn that the honorable President of Kalymnos65 has reversed his nation's position on this resolution. And, since he'll be joining us in the Assembly, we'd like to invite him to join us in our offices sometime for lunch. We usually have kielbasa sandwiches and Olde Frothingslosh. Our offices are on the 7th Basement level. Just knock on the door with the "Boiler Room" sign.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

3. Condemns all forms of unfair and unreasonable discrimination with national educational systems, and motions for effective remedies to suchOne question: does said discrimination refer strictly to curriculum taught or student body?

Starmericana']One question: does said discrimination refer strictly to curriculum taught or student body?
It was intended to refer to student body (as well as related aspects such as teachers, admissions, etc.) I suppose it could be extended to course curricula as well.

Alright, just for the purposes of getting some semblance of debate going...

...what reasonable opposition there has been has mainly stemmed from clause 6 - the "uberblocker". Could anyone who is wary of this - even if they have in fact voted for the proposal - provide an example of where a UN mandate might be worthwhile in the education sector? In other words, a blocker is only bad if it's preventing good legislation passing. What possible good legislation might there be?

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of zzzzzzzzzzzzzztafff

Why don't you just change your nation's pretitle to "Remnants"? :p
OOC: Because I want to start again, with completely new stats. Also with far fewer people - not everyone is mewant to have survived.

yada yada yada in wrong thread
Try to keep posts related to one topic within that topic, please.

2. Declares its support for all projects aimed at increasing the availability of good, free or affordable educational services;

Define "good". Surely you can't support all projects because it makes education "good" because it would be too expensive. For example, having each school have an electronic microscope and other high tech equipment or have students stay in school for 12 hours with homework, and no vacation.




7. Encourages nations to ensure a sustainable supply of good teachers, educators, instructors and other educational professionals, through:
- providing small bursaries and grants to those seeking to train as educational professionals;

Why should they get grants and bursaries just because they are going to be an educational professional. They shouldn't recieve special treatement and it's a burden on tax payers. Also how do you define a "good" teacher? "Good" is a first grade and vague word, and should rarely be used in proposals, especially when stating specific ideas.

- ensuring reasonable pay and benefits for those working in the public education sector;

Again inspecific. Also, two nations will have a very different approach to reasonable pay. In some nations, people might only get a pay check of $1000 a year, on average, while in another it might be $50,000 on average. And describe benefits. Some benfits might be stupid like free paper and bathroom facility.

- engaging in the creation of opportunities for those in other industries to retrain and enter the educational profession;

Now your just trying to ruin our economy right here.

- rigorously checking such applicants for history of violent or sexual abuse, especially involving children, and prevent any applicants who are considered a significant risk to children from obtaining teaching posts;

In some nations, if you do poorly you are beaten, and if you do well, you get to get involved with the teacher sexually. Not a bad system if you want students to do well.

Define "good". Surely you can't support all projects because it makes education "good" because it would be too expensive. For example, having each school have an electronic microscope and other high tech equipment or have students stay in school for 12 hours with homework, and no vacation."Expensive"? How does the United Nations merely "declar its support" for some programs commit funding to [i]anything?!

Why should they get grants and bursaries just because they are going to be an educational professional. They shouldn't recieve special treatement and it's a burden on tax payers. Also how do you define a "good" teacher? "Good" is a first grade and vague word, and should rarely be used in proposals, especially when stating specific ideas.Firstly, no one under this proposal automatically gets any "grants or bursaries"; sort of because the proposal only "encourages" nations to undertake these initiatives. Your taxpayers are not going to be forced to spend money on anything your government doesn't want them to. Secondly, since you profess to lecture us all on how proposals ought to be written, let me just ask: how many proposals have you authored?

Again inspecific. Also, two nations will have a very different approach to reasonable pay. In some nations, people might only get a pay check of $1000 a year, on average, while in another it might be $50,000 on average. And describe benefits. Some benfits might be stupid like free paper and bathroom facility.Of course two nations may have different approaches to reasonable pay, which is precisely why the language is so flexible. A dirt-poor communist enclave obviously won't be able to afford whatever some filthy rich corporate oligarchy with a hefty education budget might consider "reasonable" pay for teachers. And of course, the operative word here is "encourages," so I really can't see why the language need be so specific.

Now your just trying to ruin our economy right here.Look, the word here is "encourages." It mandates nothing. If your nation's legislators are going to read a recommendation as a directive, whatever "ruin" comes to your economy will be entirely your fault.

In some nations, if you do poorly you are beaten, and if you do well, you get to get involved with the teacher sexually. Not a bad system if you want students to do well.Sigh ... do I need to dignify this with response? ... I'll say no.

Finally, I really shouldn't have to remind you about the incredible flexibility granted your nation under Clause 6:

6. Entrusts nations with the right and responsibility to decide on the structure of their public education systems and the role of private institutions, mandatory, encouraged and prohibited subjects, skills and course elements in educational institutions, and the financing of educational programs, subject to previous UN legislation still in effect;Which means: this proposal allows your nation to do whatever the fuck it wants, no matter what fluffy bastage the recommendatory clauses endorse. All of your concerns are deemed moot with just 13 words. What efficiency!

Sammy Faisano
Ambassador to the United Nations

Define "good". Surely you can't support all projects because it makes education "good" because it would be too expensive. For example, having each school have an electronic microscope and other high tech equipment or have students stay in school for 12 hours with homework, and no vacation.
How could that be considered "good"? You're stretching.

Why should they get grants and bursaries just because they are going to be an educational professional. They shouldn't recieve special treatement and it's a burden on tax payers. Also how do you define a "good" teacher? "Good" is a first grade and vague word, and should rarely be used in proposals, especially when stating specific ideas.
Suppose a scientist or a historian makes a lot of money. Having gone to school with teachers who were not at all hesitant about complaining about their wages, but were smart enough and educated enough to pursue a career in the better paying field, I know that teaching doesn't pay well. Why grants and such? Incentive.
And the word "good" is used because standards are different from country to country. What's good in, say, Boricuastan is likely pure crap in Norderia. To define it specifically would put unrealistic goals on some (sad though that may be) and be far beneath others.


Again inspecific. Also, two nations will have a very different approach to reasonable pay. In some nations, people might only get a pay check of $1000 a year, on average, while in another it might be $50,000 on average. And describe benefits. Some benfits might be stupid like free paper and bathroom facility.
Exactly why it HAS to be inspecific. Different economies. There is no arguing the word "reasonable." Living wages would be the bare minimum of reasonable.


Now your just trying to ruin our economy right here.
Ugh... I hate having to play capitalist advocate, but here goes...

IT pro: Man, there sure is a lot of work for me to do. I can't possibly get all this stuff done!
Government flunkie: Come, teach your trade to others! We'll give you gold!
IT pro: Right on! Now class, have my knowledge!
Class: We are eating your talent!
Class clown: I am becoming full of win!
Government flunkie: Now there are MORE people to do the work! Productivity is up!
All: Hooray for the UN!

There are plenty of other ways for your economy to not get ruined by having people learn how to do work.


In some nations, if you do poorly you are beaten, and if you do well, you get to get involved with the teacher sexually. Not a bad system if you want students to do well.

A small boy with an oversized, knit hat is escorted into the GA by Envoy Viljakainen. Juhani has a look on his face that betrays his thoughts of 'What the hell am I doing...?' The small boy speaks in an accent not of the Norderians.
Please sir. Where I am from, we are taught chemistry from a periodic table sponsored by Oscar Meyer. If we do not call Bromine, Bolognium, we are whipped by cruel masters. And my friend BishnahakashakalakashakalakaBOOMshakalakashakalaka was touched in his no-no place. Norderia has a much better school system, and there are no more people to punch us around or take us into the back office to--
Juhani Viljakainen interupts the child, and begins to escort him out. On his way, he glances at Tommo the Stout with a very slight, but very pointed glare. He mutters under his breath.
I cannot believe he wanted to try the Kenny/Cluichstani system of debate...

I cannot believe he wanted to try the Kenny/Cluichstani system of debate...I don't get it.

3. Condemns all forms of unfair and unreasonable discrimination with national educational systems, and motions for effective remedies to such
It was intended to refer to student body (as well as related aspects such as teachers, admissions, etc.) I suppose it could be extended to course curricula as well.I wholeheartedly support this item, however, a rectification of this clause to specify the illegality of student body discrimination, allowing for the government to 'lend a hand' in developing the curricula itself.

Presidentia Case
DMS

I worry that this vote may force nations to insitute compulsory education which may have negative consequences. Also I don't like this wording: "2. Declares its support for all projects aimed at increasing the availability of good, free or affordable educational services;"
Good, free OR affordable? I guess I'd choose affordable but I'm not going to vote for this proposal and will not be subjected to it's passing because I will not join the UN. It's a shame that my nation can't be considered developed without it and that it is probably maligned in some circles as a consequence but... that's just going to have to be the way it is for now. Peace.

I don't get it.
Perhaps more Cluich than you... Bringing in people from the outside world to make an example...

Or maybe I made it all up in my head. Hmm.....

OOC: Sounds a bit like TilEnca, though his/her examples were far better written than that claptrap above. Though Norderia probably doesn't know who, or what, I'm talking about...

Define "good". Surely you can't support all projects because it makes education "good" because it would be too expensive. For example, having each school have an electronic microscope and other high tech equipment or have students stay in school for 12 hours with homework, and no vacation.
As has already been pointed out, "declaring support" does not entail funds. It means "declaring support".

"I think they are all good."

There, what did that cost? That's right...nothing.

Why should they get grants and bursaries just because they are going to be an educational professional. They shouldn't recieve special treatement and it's a burden on tax payers.
Ok, so don't do it. It's just an optional suggestion.

Also how do you define a "good" teacher?
I'd define a good teacher as one who is more than competent.

But that's irrelevant, because nations do the defining here, not me.

Again inspecific. Also, two nations will have a very different approach to reasonable pay. In some nations, people might only get a pay check of $1000 a year, on average, while in another it might be $50,000 on average. And describe benefits. Some benfits might be stupid like free paper and bathroom facility.
All of which is why this an optional suggestion, not a firm mandate.

If you introduce benefits, be they reasonable or stupid, it's your choice.

Now your just trying to ruin our economy right here.
Um, why?

And how does an optional suggestion ruin anything?

In some nations, if you do poorly you are beaten, and if you do well, you get to get involved with the teacher sexually. Not a bad system if you want students to do well.
Quite. And this proposal doesn't outlaw it.

You...did actually read it, right.?

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

I worry that this vote may force nations to insitute compulsory education which may have negative consequences.
It doesn't.

Good, free OR affordable? I guess I'd choose affordable but I'm not going to vote for this proposal and will not be subjected to it's passing because I will not join the UN. It's a shame that my nation can't be considered developed without it and that it is probably maligned in some circles as a consequence but... that's just going to have to be the way it is for now. Peace.
I do not understand any of your English here.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

OOC: This is just an annoucement to let you know that I'm back, well rested, and more full of Barbaric Militant Macismo than ever.

IC:
well there is not much more that the palentine can add, except to say the we fuly support this fine bit of legislation. It's fairly Natsov friendly. We congradulate Gruenberg for writing and proposing this resolution.
Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

OOC: Sounds a bit like TilEnca, though his/her examples were far better written than that claptrap above. Though Norderia probably doesn't know who, or what, I'm talking about...

OOC: I hope TilEnca's were really damn good then, cuz... Ouch... I mean, I know that wasn't even on par with a mediocre day/post, but ouch. That hurts here (-points to chest-).

IT pro: Man, there sure is a lot of work for me to do. I can't possibly get all this stuff done!
Government flunkie: Come, teach your trade to others! We'll give you gold!
IT pro: Right on! Now class, have my knowledge!
Class: We are eating your talent!
Class clown: I am becoming full of win!
Government flunkie: Now there are MORE people to do the work! Productivity is up!
All: Hooray for the UN!


Nail on head. Education is a short term economic loss, for huge long term gain.

It does indeed fill even the class clown, full of win.

OOC: Sounds a bit like TilEnca, though his/her examples were far better written than that claptrap above. Though Norderia probably doesn't know who, or what, I'm talking about...OOC: I hope TilEnca's were really damn good then, cuz... Ouch... I mean, I know that wasn't even on par with a mediocre day/post, but ouch. That hurts here (-points to chest-).[OOC: I thought it was pretty much agreed that TilEnca/Pallatium was a "him"? Don't remember much from TilEnca, but I do remember Pallatium. Boy, do I ever remember that douche. :rolleyes:

[Anyway, my examples are always narrated by my UN representatives/government officials; I don't recall ever actually bringing common Kennyites into the GA. ... And come on, Enn, Norderia's post wasn't that bad. Way to welcome our newest Nogger. :p]

IC: Wecome back, Senator Sulla.

EDIT: Damn this account! This be Kenny.

With all of the due respect, and let me preface this by stating that I have not in fact read the resolution, other than the title, nor have I read any of the comments all of you have made regarding this resolution, I think the most important thing, and the thing that all of you have missed in this debate is that education is hella important. Thank you for your time doggs, and I hope you'll vote courageously, and by that I mean for this resolution.

The Right, Honourable Ray
UN Ambassadorable

Achewoodia']With all of the due respect, and let me preface this by stating that I have not in fact read the resolution, other than the title, nor have I read any of the comments all of you have made regarding this resolution, I think the most important thing, and the thing that all of you have missed in this debate is that education is hella important. Thank you for your time doggs, and I hope you'll vote courageously, and by that I mean for this resolution.
Hahahahahahahahahaha...oh wait, piss off.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

Achewoodia']With all of the due respect, and let me preface this by stating that I have not in fact read the resolution, other than the title, nor have I read any of the comments all of you have made regarding this resolution, I think the most important thing, and the thing that all of you have missed in this debate is that education is hella important. Thank you for your time doggs, and I hope you'll vote courageously, and by that I mean for this resolution.

The Right, Honourable Ray
UN Ambassadorable

Education is important. The UN should encourage it. However it should not try to control local education. Educators must be able to adapt to the changing needs of the times.

Tenure is a good system, for example :) It's the best way to prevent the wrong people from tampering with the system. If you don't want a bad teacher to get tenured, you just fire them before they get that far.

Tenure is a good system, for example :) It's the best way to prevent the wrong people from tampering with the system. If you don't want a bad teacher to get tenured, you just fire them before they get that far.
Of course that assumes that the bad teacher is discovered to be a bad teacher prior to their being tenured.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

It doesn't.


I do not understand any of your English here.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

By maligned, in the sense I used it, I meant defamed. In plain english that means that I, through my nation, will be made to appear poorly in an unjust manner. This is because I will not join the UN which could offer me a chance to flesh out my nation's character. The reason I won't join the UN is because I refuse to be subjected to ALL of the foolish or immoral laws that the other members pass. I hope that's simple enough for the people of Gruenberg to understand even as they choose to subjugate themselves to ideas which they may not necessarily even believe in.

By maligned, in the sense I used it, I meant defamed. In plain english that means that I, through my nation, will be made to appear poorly in an unjust manner. This is because I will not join the UN which could offer me a chance to flesh out my nation's character. The reason I won't join the UN is because I refuse to be subjected to ALL of the foolish or immoral laws that the other members pass. I hope that's simple enough for the people of Gruenberg to understand even as they choose to subjugate themselves to ideas which they may not necessarily even believe in.
Well now I understand what you're saying, but not why. Given it has no relevance to this proposal, the discussion seems a little irrelevant.

First it made no sense but now it's not relevant. That's convenient transition for you to appear in the upper hand on this debate considering the fact that, in my original post, the reason for me not joining the UN was a mere addendum to my problems with the education proposal (which I thought was unclear and potentially leading to compulsory education). Any idiotic or oppressive resolution passed by the UN is enough reason for me to keep my nation out of it. I wish their were other ways to clarify one's national purpose without having to live down to the ideals of others. So that's my 2 paper scraps worth on this subject and on the larger subject of the UN. I hope that's clear and relevant enough for you. OR... maybe I don't care -- your argumentative obfuscation might be it's own reward.

First it made no sense but now it's not relevant. That's convenient transition for you to appear in the upper hand on this debate considering the fact that, in my original post, the reason for me not joining the UN was a mere addendum to my problems with the education proposal (which I thought was unclear and potentially leading to compulsory education). Any idiotic or oppressive resolution passed by the UN is enough reason for me to keep my nation out of it. I wish their were other ways to clarify one's national purpose without having to live down to the ideals of others. So that's my 2 paper scraps worth on this subject and on the larger subject of the UN. I hope that's clear and relevant enough for you. OR... maybe I don't care -- your argumentative obfuscation might be it's own reward.
And we're back to not understanding a fucking word you're saying.

In the interests of not making this discussion any more tumour-inducing, though, I'll drop it. You are absolutely right, and I am not worthy to kiss your feet. Good day.

Allow me to translate, I think I can do it.

Frieks: I ain't joining the UN, cuz this proposal will force people to have education. Although joining the UN WOULD flesh out my character, joining would cause me to be defamed.
Gruen: Huh?
Frieks: I ain't joining the UN, cuz this proposal will force people to have education. Although joining the UN WOULD flesh out my character, joining would cause me to be defamed.
Gruen: Why does that matter?
Frieks: Hey, you're just gainsaying everything I'm saying so you can look good! I'm not joining the UN because my ideology and policy is better than Norderia's, and I say tut-tut to you by using obfuscate in the wrong context, but only slightly, so it isn't a too too bad offense against the linguist gods.
Gruen: Huh? No, wait, nevermind. You're absolutely right. Go tell the mods I agree with everything you said.
Norderia: Here is a brief inflammatory synopsis of the conversation, so's this breakdown in communication can end! Frieks: Bitch. Gruen: Ho. Frieks: BITCH. Gruen: HO. Frieks: BITCHBITCHBITCH! Gruen: HOHO-- I ain't no santa. Ho.

Nevermind.

The both of yous (cept maybe Gruen who is wise enough to drop such arguments when they come to a point where someone like me says "Hey yous, drop such arguments!") need to drop such arguments. This is about edjakashun. Not joining the UN or not understanding other people's arguments. Right right?

I ain't joining the UN, cuz this proposal will force people to have education.

No. This does not mandate compulsory education. You can leave your people free to choose dumbness all you want.

You can leave your people free to choose dumbness all you want.Yay!

And now we can:

Last UN Decision

The resolution UN Educational Aid Act was passed 11,250 votes to 2,307, and implemented in all UN member nations.Congratulations to our regional delegate, Gruenberg.

I ain't joining the UN, cuz this proposal will force people to have education.

This actualy dosn't force nations to do anything at all.

Excellent. Now we should line up the repeals: I'm thinking of trying "UN Educational Committee" first. I think the education resolutions will be tough to repeal, though.

No. This does not mandate compulsory education. You can leave your people free to choose dumbness all you want.

You quote your own poor interpretation of what I was trying to say? Is this the type of thing the education systems you support would teach? First of all, I said it MIGHT compel compulsory education BUT, I suppose, I could have been more clear by specifying compulsory STATE education. We the Frieks believe that learning and acquiring an education is a natural occurence that happens without being forced into state schools where you learn the values of the state and the subjects the state wants you to learn about. Furthermore... you also totally misrepresented my reasons for not wanting to join the UN. Yes it would flesh out the character of my state but it would be fleshed out by the rules created by other UN members and not necessarily in my best interests as I see them. I don't know how that could be more clear but you're probably already lost anyway as anyone reading these posts impartially can tell.

First of all, I said it MIGHT compel compulsory education BUT, I suppose, I could have been more clear by specifying compulsory STATE education.
Maybe, but you'd have been equally as wrong.

This resolution does not compel compulsory education, be it state, private, or conical.

You quote your own poor interpretation of what I was trying to say? Is this the type of thing the education systems you support would teach? First of all, I said it MIGHT compel compulsory education BUT, I suppose, I could have been more clear by specifying compulsory STATE education. We the Frieks believe that learning and acquiring an education is a natural occurence that happens without being forced into state schools where you learn the values of the state and the subjects the state wants you to learn about. Furthermore... you also totally misrepresented my reasons for not wanting to join the UN. Yes it would flesh out the character of my state but it would be fleshed out by the rules created by other UN members and not necessarily in my best interests as I see them. I don't know how that could be more clear but you're probably already lost anyway as anyone reading these posts impartially can tell.

Mk, I'm not any more compelled to be nice to you for insulting my intelligence, or my education system (Mine is ranked 600 in the world. Where's yours?). I didn't misunderstand your reason at all, nor did I misinterpret it. However the argument Gruen didn't understand was the one I was showing in my wee little goofy synopsis. We've all heard the "the UN's Resolutions will ruin my country" argument before, so it was not noteworthy. You finished?

So what, I have greater civil rights and more political freedom in my nation! Hell, I even have a stronger economy! Big deal. I don't care if you spend more money to get a bad education and I don't care if you've heard why the U.N. sucks -- the reality of those flaws remain the same. So now, big-shot, are YOU done?

This is about edjakashun. Not joining the UN or not understanding other people's arguments. Right right?

HA! Yeah, why would we need to understand each other's arguments on any particular topic? I guess I'm still a little upset about your completely ignorant interpretation of my points (the interpetation which you then quoted and responded to as if I had actually written those things). Anyway... I saw some of the bestiality which popped up in some of your U.N. nations thanks to the ill-advised passage of a resolution which effected all memeber states. So... let me just offer you these congratulations on the success of your organization -- HA!

OOC: Norderia, we should probably stop feeding him.

OOC: Norderia, we should probably stop feeding him.

I eat pompous fools like you for breakfast AND lunch!
And now, finally, I have gotten off topic. So, kids, whatever you do... don't stay in school! You might end up like these two idiots!

Congratulations, Gruen, on passing a Resolution that will help keep people like that out of the UN. A bottle of Norderian vodka has been deposited outside the door of your UN office.

OOC: I hope TilEnca's were really damn good then, cuz... Ouch... I mean, I know that wasn't even on par with a mediocre day/post, but ouch. That hurts here (-points to chest-).
Yergh. I really need to be more specific when I write. I meant the person Norderia was quoting regarding that - The Second Atlantis.

Sowwy Norderia. You don't write claptrap.

Well, not much, anyway. :D

[edit] And the bit about you not knowing was about you not understanding my reference to TilEnca, nothing more intended. I think I was a bit off then, probably the antibiotics I've been on for the past week. Finished them now, so hopefully this lot won't happen again.

Our congratulations to the distinguished representative of Gruenberg on the passage of this fine resolution.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador-at-Large

Yergh. I really need to be more specific when I write. I meant the person Norderia was quoting regarding that - The Second Atlantis.

Sowwy Norderia. You don't write claptrap.

Well, not much, anyway. :D

[edit] And the bit about you not knowing was about you not understanding my reference to TilEnca, nothing more intended. I think I was a bit off then, probably the antibiotics I've been on for the past week. Finished them now, so hopefully this lot won't happen again.

I've gotten over it.





But it's too late, YOU'RE ON NOTICE.