NationStates Jolt Archive

I have put forth the following proposal to my brother and sister delegates of the United Nations in the hopes that we can clear up some confusing and conflicting mandates. Obviously the U.N. recognizes the needs of researching and implementing the use of alternative fuels to ease and eventually replace our dependency on fossil fuels. However U.N. 18 mandates that all members begin research and development of hydrogen powered vehicles.

As outlined by the proposal, I recognize the merits of this resolution, however U.N. 39, "Alternative Fuels", makes provisions to research other less costly, more renewable, and notably, less volatile than hydrogen. The provisions passed in U.N. 39 render those of U.N. 18 redundant.

I encourage all delegates to view the proposal, and approve it in order that all members of the U.N. can decide for themselves which alternative fuels they wish to develop for thier own nations.
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Description: UN Resolution #18: Hydrogen Powered Vehicles (Category: Environmental; Industry Affected: Automobile Manufacturing) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: RECOGNIZING the provision of U.N. Resolution 18 "Hydrogen Powered Vehicles" and it's merits.

NOTING that while hydrogen fueled cars produce less toxic emissions, are better for the environment, and in many ways more efficient than automobiles that use fossil fuels, the costs for producing and maintaining the facilities needed in order to produce, and maintain such vehicles is quite prohibitive to smaller, technologically disadvantaged nations who can not afford the significant energy cost of having to build hundreds of millions of new hydrogen powered vehicles plus hydrogen fuel distribution infrastructure.

NOTING also according to the majority of energy experts and researchers, hydrogen is currently impractical as an alternative to fossil-based liquid fuels. It is inefficient to produce, insufficiently energy dense (hydrogen gas tanks would need to be 2-3 times as large as conventional gasoline tanks), and expensive to transport and convert back to electricity.

RECOGNIZING U.N. Resolution 39: "Alternative Fuels", makes provisions for automobile manufacturers to research alternative fuels to power automobiles.

NOTING U.N. 39 allows leeway to conduct research into alternate fuels that are far less costly, less volatile, and more renewable than hydrogen. These include, but are not limited to: biodiesel, ethanol, butanol, methane, natural gas, wood, and vegetable oil.

CONCLUDING, the passing of U.N. Resolution 39 make the provisions of U.N. Resolution 18 redundant.

REPEAL U.N. Resolution 18 "Hydrogen Powered Vehicles" in order to prevent confliction and confusion with current resolutions regarding alternate fuels, mainly U.N. 39.

Can't see anything wrong with it, so yeah good proposal.

I presume you are running a TG campaign?

Can't see anything wrong with it, so yeah good proposal.

I presume you are running a TG campaign?

Thanks for the compliment.

Umm, I'm afraid that I am not familiar with the term "TG Campaign". Though I have been on NS for a while now, this is my first venture into this part of the experiance so I don't know the lingo. Sorry for my ignorance.:D

Umm, I'm afraid that I am not familiar with the term "TG Campaign". Though I have been on NS for a while now, this is my first venture into this part of the experiance so I don't know the lingo. Sorry for my ignorance.:D

A "TG Campaign" means using the 'telegram' function to send regional delegates a short message about your proposal and a request for them to approve it... Few if any proposals have got to quorum recently without one.

Telegramming the delegates is time consuming and boring, but it's worth it. Especially if you really do want this to reach quorum.

I recommend trying to get help with the telegramming. I almost lost my sanity while doing mine. Thankfully someone stepped up and offered help.

Ah okay. yes I have been using the telegram to some extent last night. I think I sent TG's to about 20 or so delegates, but as you pointed out, I got pretty bored with that fast. I'm going to continue to hit as many delegates as possible with this, but not sure how fast I am going to be able to spread the message. I'm staying at my mothers house at the present and using a even year old Compaq on dial up so that lets you know how fast I am treading the web right now.

Ah okay. yes I have been using the telegram to some extent last night. I think I sent TG's to about 20 or so delegates, but as you pointed out, I got pretty bored with that fast. I'm going to continue to hit as many delegates as possible with this, but not sure how fast I am going to be able to spread the message. I'm staying at my mothers house at the present and using a even year old Compaq on dial up so that lets you know how fast I am treading the web right now.

Wow! Sounds like fun(insert sarcasm here). I did about 500 pages before I got any help. I think I even started copying and pasting in my sleep.

Hope you are successful with this proposal.

I like this repeal, it goes after how redundant the proposal is instead of how bad. However, some people like redundancy as a safeguard, so I'd still critique the actual content of Hydrogen as well as point out everything it does is already done better by other proposals.

Well, if it doesn't pass on for UN voting, I will rewrite it with that kind of an argument since I found at least one other resolution that made reference to alternative based fuels. This is the first time I have attempted to propose anything towards the U.N. so I am still learning how to effectively do this.

Just 101 more approvals to go. Hopefully I can get those in time before Monday.

91 more approvals to go. I've made my way through 30 pages of delegates, another 850 or so to go. I love this! I can't think of anything else I'd rather than be doing on a Saturday night then spending it here begging for approvals on my proposal that will end on Monday. This is so awesome.

And I can see it! The light at the end of the tunnel.....but what's that strange whistling sound?

91 more approvals to go. I've made my way through 30 pages of delegates, another 850 or so to go. I love this! I can't think of anything else I'd rather than be doing on a Saturday night then spending it here begging for approvals on my proposal that will end on Monday. This is so awesome.

And I can see it! The light at the end of the tunnel.....but what's that strange whistling sound?

If the currently submitted proposal fails to reach quorum, we'll be happy to help with a revision. We think Resolution #18 richly deserves repeal.

There's an additional argument for repeal which we believe is a compelling one. The resolution requires some 30,000 nations all to "start developing hydrogen powered cars." This absurd, one-size-fits-all mandate applies equally to past-tech nations which wouldn't have a clue about doing it to future-tech nations which might already be well ahead of the power curve. Even if we assume (as some would like to do) a present-tech status for all nations, the amount of duplication of development effort and consequent waste of resources that this would cause is appalling.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

some people think it's fucking stupid to waste the resources of 30,000 nations on a single energy source, when it'd be much more productive to have them invest in diversity of renewable energy sources.

Typical of eco fascist talk.

If the currently submitted proposal fails to reach quorum, we'll be happy to help with a revision. We think Resolution #18 richly deserves repeal.

There's an additional argument for repeal which we believe is a compelling one. The resolution requires some 30,000 nations all to "start developing hydrogen powered cars." This absurd, one-size-fits-all mandate applies equally to past-tech nations which wouldn't have a clue about doing it to future-tech nations which might already be well ahead of the power curve. Even if we assume (as some would like to do) a present-tech status for all nations, the amount of duplication of development effort and consequent waste of resources that this would cause is appalling.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

Um, well, I agree :) This "one-size-fits-all" mandate is ridiculous. It's like to trying to force backwards proprietary views on all nations becuase one small group of environmental fascists thinks they have the answer. The rest of us can not sit idly by! The fine print of these resolutions mattered.

The environment is a complicated subject. Anyhting that straightjackets nations with regards to the environment is deplorable. Tomorrows environmental scientists should be free to support new innovations int he field.

Interesting, it would appear that someone has hijacked my proposal, gotten my named removed from the author, removed my approval for it, and totally jacked up the entire proposal.

WTF is this??

Interesting, it would appear that someone has hijacked my proposal, gotten my named removed from the author, removed my approval for it, and totally jacked up the entire proposal.

WTF is this??
You do realize other people are allowed to submit repeals?

You do realize other people are allowed to submit repeals?

I do realize that. So what are you saying happened? This guy decided to repeal the same resolution, and in the process, he took over my proposal with the one he wrote, and the approvals carried over from mine to his?

Because his is not a new proposal. If it was, it would end like on Thursday or something. This repeal proposal is only good till today and then it's scrapped if no one signs off on it.

I for one am glad my approval was removed in the process because the current repeal proposal, IMO is not as good as the one that I wrote up and thought of myself.

If this is something that can be easily done, it is something that needs to be fixed because this is a major souce of harassment, at least it is in my eyes.

No, no, you don't understand. More than repeal of any resolution can be submitted at a time. His repeal is unrelated to yours.

I understand that. However there is something more going on. Trust me. Let me explain.


I submitted this proposal just before this past weekend. It was to be listed on the proposals until today.

This same proposal, which BTW, mine was the only proposal relating to the repeal of UN18, has the same end date.

When I last checked the approvals last night, I had about 90 approvals to go. This "new proposal" has a slightly lower number of approvals left to go, but interestingly enough, I recognized the same delegates that listed thier approval as the same ones from MY proposal.

There were NOT two proposals for the repeal of UN 18 that were supposed to end today. Mine was the only one, but somehow it has been hacked into with someone elses name and something else entirely written on the proposal.

To test my theory I submitted a repeal of UN 18 in order to see if a new proposal would be listed, o if it would aler the previous proposal. When I did this, a new proposal was listed that is scheduled to end on Thursday.

So, something wrong has gone on here. I have already reported this to S admin, and expect something to be done about this. Clearly there has been some kind of rule broken if you're hacking into the site and changing the names and the arguments on proposals.

And if something is not done about it, well, no big loss I'm sure, but I'll remove my nation from the game and simply quit. There are more fun, and better run games out there than NS.

Mine was the only one, but somehow it has been hacked into with someone elses name and something else entirely written on the proposal.
Since I'm not an admin, I can't speak in terms of "100%".

I am, however, 99.999999% sure that did not happen. Likely, you just didn't notice the other one.

So, something wrong has gone on here. I have already reported this to S admin, and expect something to be done about this. Clearly there has been some kind of rule broken if you're hacking into the site and changing the names and the arguments on proposals.
Like I say, I really doubt that happened.

Bear in mind, the same sets of delegates tend to approve repeals to remove certain resolutions. Of the people who approved your repeal, and this other repeal, I recognise plenty of names. Why? Because they always approve repeals of Resolution #18. I'm one of them - I have approved every repeal of #18 submitted I've seen since becoming a delegate.

I still don't exactly understand the dilemma, but I think what it comes down to is: someone else submitted a separate repeal of #18. They didn't "hack" your account, or the game - they used the Submit button. And there was considerable overlap in delegate approval, as there usually is.

Just want to clear up something here.

I didn't hijack your propasal Bastille.
The proposal I made was written on the same day you've wrote your proposal. Actually yours was written a bit earlier if I'm not mistaken.

To be honest I found it rather weird that no moderator had removed my proposal since they were practically identical.

You might ask yourself the question why I wrote the same proposal? Well, the answer is simple,, I didn't saw your proposal at the time I started writing mine (could be it wasn't there yet). After I submitted it I didn't went through the other proposals again (why should I?). But I did notice your proposal a day later. Since no-one had removed mine and you hadn't telegrammed about it, I figured nobody really cared if there was a double. So I didn't bother to warn someone and let my proposal be as it was.

So to conclude, there was no intention to hijack, copy or whatever mischievous deed you could think about. It ws just plain, pure and simple co-incedence.

Well, I'm not calling you a liar, and I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm sorry, something just doesn't stir the Kool-Aid in all this.

And sorry for the dup posts. I'm on a seven year old Compaq on dial up. it doesn't always agree to work whenever I click anything.

Well, I agree that somebody maybe should have take action in to this and maybe have removed mine (as it was submitted later). But I guess thi is the nature of the game, and I don't want to judge the game-moderators in here (as I'm relatively new ^^)

But on the other hand, aren't we just trying to get the same thing done, just think of it as an extra chance to get #18 repealed.

Just want to clear up something here.

I didn't hijack your propasal Bastille.
The proposal I made was written on the same day you've wrote your proposal. Actually yours was written a bit earlier if I'm not mistaken.

To be honest I found it rather weird that no moderator had removed my proposal since they were practically identical.

You might ask yourself the question why I wrote the same proposal? Well, the answer is simple,, I didn't saw your proposal at the time I started writing mine (could be it wasn't there yet). After I submitted it I didn't went through the other proposals again (why should I?). But I did notice your proposal a day later. Since no-one had removed mine and you hadn't telegrammed about it, I figured nobody really cared if there was a double. So I didn't bother to warn someone and let my proposal be as it was.

So to conclude, there was no intention to hijack, copy or whatever mischievous deed you could think about. It ws just plain, pure and simple co-incedence.

First off, it's BANTILLES. I'm not French thank you very much.

Secondly, I did go through the other proposals, and I never saw another repeal for U.N. 18. All I know is that mine was supposed to end today, like yours, and yet the only proposal that is up there is yours and not mine.

Like I said, something just doesn't stir the Kool-Aid in all of this. if you think I'm being paranoid, that's fine with me. I'm a Navy veteran, and believe me, the Navy will make you paranoid.

First off, it's BANTILLES. I'm not French thank you very much.
My apoligies for that, BANTILLES. Didn't intend to.

Secondly, I did go through the other proposals, and I never saw another repeal for U.N. 18. All I know is that mine was supposed to end today, like yours, and yet the only proposal that is up there is yours and not mine.
I noticed too yours was gone, figured it finished a bit earlier then mine. (I wrote mine later, so .) Now, if it got deleted by a mod, then I guess you should take this to a mod (wich you allready did, if I read right). But I can assure you it hasn't got anything to do with me.

Like I said, something just doesn't stir the Kool-Aid in all of this. if you think I'm being paranoid, that's fine with me. I'm a Navy veteran, and believe me, the Navy will make you paranoid.Wouldn't know about it, have the same thing from coffee, but I guess you cant compare that ;).

Bantilles, you're being paranoid. First off, I distinctly remember approving two different repeal attempts for Resolution #18 recently. Secondly, only the mods (and admins) have the power to remove proposals from the list. Thirdly, the mods don't care how many different attempts to repeal a resolution are in the list as long as the repeals don't break any of the proposal rules (and as long as it's not a situtation where the same repeal attempt was accidentally submitted multiple times in which case they only delete the extras). What most likely happened Bantilles, is that your repeal attempt ran out of time and was removed from the list automatically before you thought it was going to.

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo-stick.

Take off the tinfoil hat and put down the blotter paper, dude.

I mean, seriously. Someone actually manages to hack us, and their first course of business is to fuck around with your repeal? Our admins have day jobs, you know... Don't waste their time with nonsensical, paranoid delusions.

totally off-topic but

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo-stick
Just love this expression :D First time I hear it in my life, but just love it ... anyway...

Jumpin' Jesus on a pogo-stick.

Take off the tinfoil hat and put down the blotter paper, dude.

I mean, seriously. Someone actually manages to hack us, and their first course of business is to fuck around with your repeal? Our admins have day jobs, you know... Don't waste their time with nonsensical, paranoid delusions.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/tinfoil-hat.jpg

Just love this expression :D First time I hear it in my life, but just love it ... anyway...I got it from The Dead Milkmen's materpiece "Stuart", off their seminal album "Beelzebubba".

Okay, so maybe I'm over selling them, but it's a great song. Assuming, of course, that you aren't easily offended.

Oh, Cluich, who is that? Art Bell and Denis Kucinich's love child?

Oh, Cluich, who is that? Art Bell and Denis Kucinich's love child?

I'm pretty sure it's Palentine. :p

I'm pretty sure it's Palentine. :p
Palentine is Art Bell and Denis Kucinich's love child?:p

Palentine is Art Bell and Denis Kucinich's love child?:p


No, he's the result of Hatfield-McCoy crossbreeding, I think. :p