NationStates Jolt Archive

:sniper: Alcovska here,:mp5:
I want to bring attention to a new proposal for the UN.
It is for a DNA and Fingerprint Database, as you must have figured out from the title.
It needs many more approvals.
I hope you find it to be an interesting proposal, and I hope you approve it for a resolution.

-Alcovska-

DNA and Fingerprint Database


Police forces of each nation struggle to carry out a crime scene investigations each year. They are always met with the same tough question of, “Who committed this crime?” They can never seem to get the right person due to faulty evidence, and if they somehow do get the right man, or woman, it seems to be by chance. In many cases it comes down to the DNA or the fingerprint(s). They never seem to have the data they need to convict the felon because he is not willing to give a sample of his DNA, and it his right not to give it, or they do not have his fingerprint on file. This is completely absurd.

Help the Crime Scene Investigators, the Prosecutors, and the noble Police Force that is determined to put away the criminals of each nation:
- Requires each citizen to give the government a DNA sample for the government database.
- Requires each citizen to give fingerprint data once they reach the age of 17.

This resolution will allow police forces across the globe to better perform their job of protecting the citizens of each nation. These officers of the law need all the help the government can muster.

The ever-sovereign Regent of the Armed Republic of Costa Bravo would like to convey the fact that the general intention of this resolution is nice, but it's worded extremely poorly, and looks nothing like a UN Resolution. In its current state, Costa Bravo will not approve it.

Phillipe Renoir
Emissary to the UN
The Armed Republic of Costa Bravo

Even if this crude form this proposal sounds like a 'big brother' idea.

while some people may argue it helps law enforcement and internal security its not that far removed from forcing people to wear barcode tattoos or microchips. the gathered information has too much potential to be abused by a government.

in short the Empire of Kirisubo will never support this proposal.

Ms Yukiko Uehara
Kirisuban UN Mission

- Requires each citizen to give the government a DNA sample for the government database. I see a problem with this as in a world where there are many clones that have common DNA since they come from a common 'parent clone' this could end up by convicting the wrong person for crimes they never did. Thus would not help but cause more 'faulty evidence' to be entered into the case.

- Requires each citizen to give fingerprint data once they reach the age of 17.Why just 17 or don't kids where you are grow finger prints from birth? Many of those who commit crimes are often under the age of 17 thus it would be nice to include them in this.

This resolution will allow police forces across the globe to better perform their job of protecting the citizens of each nation. These officers of the law need all the help the government can muster.How as many nations already have a data base in place of such information and share it with other nations in helping to prevent crimes across national borders. As this is just talk and sets up no plan it's a poor resolution and needs a lot of work before we could support it...

Also we suggest that if your nation is having problems solving crimes they spend some funds and time training their law officers to perform better instead of spending time here trying to waste our time.. As many member nations have a very effective and well trained police force that finds criminals and puts them away when needed.

Zarta Warden,
UN Ambassador Zeldon

Ceorana will never support this if it requires that we all be fingerprinted. We may, however, support something that puts together a worldwide database of fingerprints/DNA of people who have been fingerprinted under their nation's laws, to aid international crime-catching.

The general intentions are good but it would need to be entirly rewritten.

I would suggest reading or at least looking at
[this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=342360)
just to see how to write proposals. Also "The Great Big Consolidated
United Nations Sticky" might be something to look at(in the UN forum at the top it is one of the first topics.

After then you should try to rewrite this. Some things people are going to say are
1) This is expensive
2) Invasion of privacy this data could be used against the best intrests of people.

I would suggest instead of requiring that DNA and figerprints are put in the database. That when a nation collects this it also is put in a secure database which is monitored by a commite. All UN nations would not be allowed to sell any information in the database or give it to the public. But the nations would be allowed to read it. Also all people held in captivity for more then 2 weeks would have DNA and fingerprints scanned.

If you don't plan on doing that I might.

:sniper: Alcovska here,:mp5:
I want to bring attention to a new proposal for the UN.
It is for a DNA and Fingerprint Database, as you must have figured out from the title.
It needs many more approvals.
I hope you find it to be an interesting proposal, and I hope you approve it for a resolution.

-Alcovska-

DNA and Fingerprint Database


Police forces of each nation struggle to carry out a crime scene investigations each year. They are always met with the same tough question of, “Who committed this crime?” They can never seem to get the right person due to faulty evidence, and if they somehow do get the right man, or woman, it seems to be by chance. In many cases it comes down to the DNA or the fingerprint(s). They never seem to have the data they need to convict the felon because he is not willing to give a sample of his DNA, and it his right not to give it, or they do not have his fingerprint on file. This is completely absurd.

Help the Crime Scene Investigators, the Prosecutors, and the noble Police Force that is determined to put away the criminals of each nation:
- Requires each citizen to give the government a DNA sample for the government database.
- Requires each citizen to give fingerprint data once they reach the age of 17.

This resolution will allow police forces across the globe to better perform their job of protecting the citizens of each nation. These officers of the law need all the help the government can muster.

As has been said by others, this resolution would obviously need to be cleaned up and conformed to standard, with every clause properly defined, before one could be certain how to proceed in a vote. However, comment can be made upon the gist of the idea without such niceties.

Kuraurisand has a law similar to this in our society, which we have mentioned elsewhere - a law mandating a detailed medical examination of every citizen on a yearly basis, during the citizen's birth month, beginning at birth, which includes STD testing as well as standard bloodwork and such. Naturally, there was an outcry of privacy invasion when the law was first considered, and it passed by a fairly narrow margin. (The law does not cite criminal penalty for failure to come in, only that violaters be taken into custody and placed in medical quarantine until they consent to examination, and for a very long time, people would sit in the quarantine area for weeks or even months in protest. It's a fairly complicated story, but not relevant to these proceedings - simply be aware that if you're going to make any mandates, you'd best make sure to include a clause about enforcement and violation).

The reason the law passed is because there was a clear data collection practice - what you'd call a "privacy policy", I suppose - included in the bill, and outlined punishments for anyone caught using or even obtaining the information in ways other than were prescribed. People had faith that the provisions would be carried out as they were stated, and as the inevitable violators of the collection clause were brought to justice, faith in the system grew. There are still protestors, of course, but they are a minutely small group today compared to what they were.

In the spirit of that idea, we question whether or not this proposal, while certainly beneficial conceptually, is "ready" for the world stage. Many nations would abuse it to the fullest extent possible, even if clear attempts to outline abuse prevention were put in place. And even if government can be trusted, imagine the perils of such a database falling into the wrong hands? And would DNA evidence be the end-all of criminal investigation, then? Could a person not be framed by the use of DNA against them?

We cannot say how we would vote, it depends on the resolution's final draft. But we certainly approach it with a certain skepticism.

Regards,
Ambassador Arin mac Nihil
The Community of Kuraurisand
"In labor the body, law the mind, and care the heart."

Two words: FUCK THIS.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

This resolution will allow police forces across the globe to better perform their job of protecting the citizens of each nation. These officers of the law need all the help the government can muster.

You need officers of the law in your country? That reflects rather poorly on your nation and its people. I recommend that y'all work on your own nation before presuming to tell others how to run theirs.

HotRodian UN Representative
Accelerus Dioce

I believe this should be stopped before it is even written out. This proposal is anathema to all free societies and should not even be considered.

Prime Minister of Jacobic

I believe this should be stopped before it is even written out. This proposal is anathema to all free societies and should not even be considered.

Prime Minister of Jacobic

Are you sure about that? Playing the Devil's Advocate, for a moment, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to compile a database like this. Imagine never having another "John Doe" in the morgue, his family wondering for years what became of him. Or the ease of a thumbprint system that can essentially replace every key, credit card, social security number, ID card, or any of the other things we're currently forced to carry around to get along in the typical modern society. Imagine an EMT trying to rescue an unconscious person, and being able to discover their allergy to common life-saving drugs without looking for a Life Alert bracelet or any other thing that the poor soul might have forgotten to wear that day. Imagine the ease of checking into the airport with a press of the thumb, without all the bother of tickets and such.

If you take it outside of the very limited scope that the drafter presented it with, it becomes an idea that can benefit any society. That said, of course there's a LOT of potential for abuse, and we reiterate our concern that forcing the advancement on other nations (which there IS precedent to do that, we do it with the environmental standards we set on automobiles, for example) before they're ready to handle such power responsibly, and before the people are ready to vest that much trust in their governments, would meet with disaster.

Regards,
Ambassador Arin mac Nihil
The Community of Kuraurisand
"In labor the body, law the mind, and care the heart."

Are you sure about that? Playing the Devil's Advocate, for a moment, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to compile a database like this. Imagine never having another "John Doe" in the morgue, his family wondering for years what became of him. Or the ease of a thumbprint system that can essentially replace every key, credit card, social security number, ID card, or any of the other things we're currently forced to carry around to get along in the typical modern society. Imagine an EMT trying to rescue an unconscious person, and being able to discover their allergy to common life-saving drugs without looking for a Life Alert bracelet or any other thing that the poor soul might have forgotten to wear that day. Imagine the ease of checking into the airport with a press of the thumb, without all the bother of tickets and such. However, I can see one major problem with the scenario you describe. And that problem is that if a person cuts their finger, then that finger's fingerprint changes which would render the records useless.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The honourable member from Kuraurisand is welcome to try out these ideas in his own nation since they're not in the NSUN. they're doing something similiar already.

He may well be playing devils advocate but it has already been shown that the nations present in this debate see this for what it is. an attempt to take away civil liberties by the back door.

Yukiko Uehara, acting deputy ambassador for the Empire of Kirisubo

While we do not support this proposal, we felt Ambassador Uehara's contention should not go unchallenged. How would this take away anyone's civil liberties? Governments are already perfectly able to require these measures of their populations if they wish. Our government currently requires fingerprinting of all newborns and immigrants to our nation for use both in criminal investigation and in response to emergencies. And our record on civil liberties is quite good, thank you. The honorable Ambassador's pandering to paranoia about civil liberties simply doesn't hold water.

Our objection to the proposal is that it simply requires, from a multi-national level, something that can already be done at the national level. Since the proposal contains no provisions for intergovernmental sharing of the information, we see no international relevance.

As an aside to the distinguished representative of Flibblietes.... It's extremely rare that a cut on the finger would obliterate enough of the points of comparison to invalidate use of the print. Besides, there are nine other record prints to work with.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

The Randomean Central Library, the last of its kind, recently tried a fingerprint system for issuing documents and books. Unfortunately, last time I checked my account someone had taken books out on my account on at least three occassions. Too many people have fingerprints similar to mine and I doubt it is a unique situation.

The Randomean Central Library, the last of its kind, recently tried a fingerprint system for issuing documents and books. Unfortunately, last time I checked my account someone had taken books out on my account on at least three occassions. Too many people have fingerprints similar to mine and I doubt it is a unique situation.

Aye, fingerprinting is not an exact science yet. Different specialists have different standards. I heard one figure is that a minimum of 12 points should be required, but that's only a guide line. Many better, or more advanced groups use 20-25 points. The lower the number, the more likely it will provide false matches.

I'll try to be brief.

:sniper: Alcovska here,:mp5:
The fine tradition of gun smilies in the first post.

:rolleyes: (<---- the fine tradition of responses to gun smilies in the first post)

DNA and Fingerprint Database


Police forces of each nation struggle to carry out a crime scene investigations each year.
Number agreement. "A crime scene investigations"

They are always met with the same tough question of, “Who committed this crime?” They can never seem to get the right person due to faulty evidence, and if they somehow do get the right man, or woman, it seems to be by chance. In many cases it comes down to the DNA or the fingerprint(s). They never seem to have the data they need to convict the felon because he is not willing to give a sample of his DNA, and it his right not to give it, or they do not have his fingerprint on file. This is completely absurd.

Hasty generalizations! THEY BUUUUURN!

This is all just rhetoric with references to criminal statuses that don't apply in many countries (felon) that commits several fallacies, such as the hasty generalization, and the questionable cause. Second, you assume that suspects have a right to not surrender their DNA or prints, which is not the case in all UN nations.


Help the Crime Scene Investigators, the Prosecutors, and the noble Police Force that is determined to put away the criminals of each nation:
- Requires each citizen to give the government a DNA sample for the government database.
- Requires each citizen to give fingerprint data once they reach the age of 17.
One, why the arbitrary number, 17?
Two, no. Not a chance.

However, I can see one major problem with the scenario you describe. And that problem is that if a person cuts their finger, then that finger's fingerprint changes which would render the records useless.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative


Even with a cut, there are enough points to identify someone. The author of this proposal might as well go ahead and slap UPC symbols on everyone.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

Actually, we tried that once.

It... ah... didn't go over very well...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Tindalos/UN/doctor.jpg
Doctor Denis Leary
Ambassador to the UN
The Federated Technocratic Oligarchy of the Most Glorious Hack

Aye, fingerprinting is not an exact science yet. Different specialists have different standards. I heard one figure is that a minimum of 12 points should be required, but that's only a guide line. Many better, or more advanced groups use 20-25 points. The lower the number, the more likely it will provide false matches.OOC: Even with DNA testing for matches as far as family relations one can see problems.. As currently testing is set in 12 or 25 or 37 markers being tested. if even the base 12 were used as a way to ID a person then there are twelve of me running around in RW.. as that many match all 12 markers with me. Once get to 25 and 37 there are no exact matches. At 37 two people are off by two markers.. neither the same markers. Thus unless a standard rule for reading/testing is set there will be problems..

You need officers of the law in your country?Officers of the law? What are those?

The Most Glorious Hack is ranked 21st in the region and 101,768th in the world for Highest Police Ratios....out of 101,771 ranked nations.

Fingerprinting and DNA Analysis should be done at an earlier age. I mean children commit crimes too. In Unified Narnia, we have a system that does this. Crime is unknown in Unified Narnia. We kill off violent criminals and give harsh penalties and terms to nonviolent ones. This resolution will not work.

Sincerely,

Supreme President Klaus Lehmann
of Unified Narnia

The author of this proposal might as well go ahead and slap UPC symbols on everyone.Actually, we tried that once.

I thought that somebody must have done so by now...

As an aside, that was the last time my nation was ever a "Corporate Bordello". I'd had that ranking for ages, but barcodes just killed one of my rankings and I never recovered.

Did end up an Anarchy though, and that seems to have opened more possibilities anyway.