NationStates Jolt Archive

EDIT, 8/5/06: Draft can be found in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11502765&postcount=23).


My repeal of the PRA is pretty much on hold. I think I was the only one doing a TG campaign and that was draining -- I'm not going to do it again for a while.

In the meantime though, I saw something of interest that the RL UN did, and while I don't actually want to be just taking stuff from the RL UN and bringing it into the NSUN, I think it was a good enough idea.

Chemicals are not always given the same abbreviations, numeric codes, and the like from country to country. This makes transporting them over international borders a fair sight hazardous because of the possibility of miscommunication.

Sooooo, how's about a Science-y Resolution to standardize the codes for chemicals being transported over borders? Using the Arabic numerals (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) and making a listing (vast though it may be) of all the compounds that are capable of transporting giving each a number, and describing how to safely transport them and under what conditions, etc. Clearly the Resolution itself wouldn't be this list, and I know some people hate making beauracracies, and I'm lazy as hell, so is there a Committee in existence in the NSUN that could likely create such a list?

Being able to properly identify chemicals to be sure they are being handled properly at every point in their transport is I think a genuinely good thing, and as yet, I don't think there is a system of doing so, especially in countries where the cardinal alphabet and arabic numerals aren't used.

Does anyone think this idea is viable? If so, what category?

My repeal of the PRA is pretty much on hold. I think I was the only one doing a TG campaign and that was draining -- I'm not going to do it again for a while.

In the meantime though, I saw something of interest that the RL UN did, and while I don't actually want to be just taking stuff from the RL UN and bringing it into the NSUN, I think it was a good enough idea.

Chemicals are not always given the same abbreviations, numeric codes, and the like from country to country. This makes transporting them over international borders a fair sight hazardous because of the possibility of miscommunication.

Sooooo, how's about a Science-y Resolution to standardize the codes for chemicals being transported over borders? Using the Arabic numerals (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) and making a listing (vast though it may be) of all the compounds that are capable of transporting giving each a number, and describing how to safely transport them and under what conditions, etc. Clearly the Resolution itself wouldn't be this list, and I know some people hate making beauracracies, and I'm lazy as hell, so is there a Committee in existence in the NSUN that could likely create such a list?

Being able to properly identify chemicals to be sure they are being handled properly at every point in their transport is I think a genuinely good thing, and as yet, I don't think there is a system of doing so, especially in countries where the cardinal alphabet and arabic numerals aren't used.

Does anyone think this idea is viable? If so, what category?

I don't think you are able to allow the commite to choose how to safly transport thing but I do not know.

About the catagory it would be in advancement of industry but it does not really seem to be in any of the catgories there. It would need a new catagory I think. These labeling stuff seem to pop up a bit maybe a catagory should be made for them.

I've thought of writing a HazMat resolution, just never got around to it. You might find some good info at the DOT/PHMSA website. http://hazmat.dot.gov/

Approved in principle.

Using standardised codes might make people more willing to accept imports of chemicals, and thus remove a barrier to trade, so maybe this could be fitted into the 'Free Trade' category?

Approved in principle.

Using standardised codes might make people more willing to accept imports of chemicals, and thus remove a barrier to trade, so maybe this could be fitted into the 'Free Trade' category?
Yes, I was thinking 'Free Trade" myself since it involves international commerce.

Aight. I can get started on a draft on... Thursday probably, since that's my next day off.

My government would be willing to vote in favour of just such an idea.

Excellent idea. Will be looking forward to seeing it develop further.

Travilia T. Thwerdock
Ambassador (pro tem) to the United Nations

Wow, this is an excellent idea for a proposal. It has the full support of Dancing Bananland.

I think I'm going to draft a series of these.

I have one completed for the transportation of hazardous materials, but I think I should work on a few more preliminary measures first. First, I have questions.

Suppose I make a proposal that includes the establishment of a commission. Could later Resolutions further the duties of said commission, or would that be a house of cards violation?

Second, should I post my HazMat rough draft (very ROUGH draft) in this thread, or its own? It's going to require a lot of work.

I think I'm going to draft a series of these.

I have one completed for the transportation of hazardous materials, but I think I should work on a few more preliminary measures first. First, I have questions.

Suppose I make a proposal that includes the establishment of a commission. Could later Resolutions further the duties of said commission, or would that be a house of cards violation?

Second, should I post my HazMat rough draft (very ROUGH draft) in this thread, or its own? It's going to require a lot of work.

Its own thread, but with a copied link to it here. :)

I'm not sure about the House of Cards ... generally speaking I tend to take a much more liberal attitude towards resolution writing than many of the moderators, but ultimately it is their decision.

This will be the thread where my series of chemical transportation proposals as a whole will be discussed. Each proposal will have its own thread, with links back and forth between.

Here is a link to the HAZMAT proposal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11466190)

It looks like I'll be attempting a single proposal to perform all of the functions that my 2-3 proposals were going to deal with.

Because of the uncertainty regarding the reuse of committees, I want to ensure that I don't run the risk of a HoC violation.

I'll be writing it sometime within the next few days. It will include a few of these points, and serve these purposes:

-To establish a commission to outline and define hazardous materials, and the proper way to transport them
-To introduce a standardized system of identifying chemicals, most likely numerically, with alphabetical denotations regarding special (likely hazardous) properties
-POSSIBLY to mandate a safe method of transporting and storing radioactive materials

Other things might be included, but that's the meat of it.

Surely it would be just as easy to do it by chemical formula?

Surely it would be just as easy to do it by chemical formula?
Huh? I don't really understand what you mean by that - how could you differentiate between isomers using standard notation?

Better to use a CAS-style system.

Huh? I don't really understand what you mean by that - how could you differentiate between isomers using standard notation?

Better to use a CAS-style system.
Furthermore, especially relating to organic compounds, chemical formulas can be written in several different ways. There is also no guaranteeing that nations that use a non-cardinal alphabet would have the same letters of symbols directly translatable from the usual denotations.

Then there are (as Gruen stated) isomers, isotopes, physical states, and other things that need to be clearly indicated.

Yes, I was thinking 'Free Trade" myself since it involves international commerce.

Yet another vote for "Free Trade". :) The alternative would be somehow to relate this to safety.

Yet another vote for "Free Trade". :) The alternative would be somehow to relate this to safety.

If only there were a safety category. I guess this will be a "Free Trade: Mild" proposal.

I do kinda feel icky proposing something that'll have "free trade" in its description....

I do kinda feel icky proposing something that'll have "free trade" in its description....One of us! ONE OF US!

One of us! ONE OF US!
You'll never take me alive!

You'll never take me alive!

Meh, alive...dead...either way. ;)

If only there were a safety category. I guess this will be a "Free Trade: Mild" proposal.

I do kinda feel icky proposing something that'll have "free trade" in its description....

Don't worry, you can propose resolutions in the "free trade" category that hinder trade.

Here is a draft of my safety regulations on international chemical transportation! WHEEE!
I imagine the category would be Free Trade, strength Mild.
WHEREAS chemicals are a widely traded commodity;

WHEREAS no current standards exist for the identification or transportation of chemical substances;

WHEREAS the variety of nations in the UN may have myriad means of identifying and transporting chemical substances;

The United Nations;

BELIEVING that a lack of standards regarding the identification and transportation of chemical substances is a severe safety hazard;

DEFINES for the purpose of this Resolution, "chemical compounds," and "substances" as chemicals that have not been refined, processed, placed, or made into a completed product; or those that have, but remain reactive;

1. ESTABLISHES the United Nations Hazard Rating (UNHR). The UNHR is a rating for common hazards of chemical substances. The UNHR includes the following information:
i) A flamability rating of 0 to 4, where 0 indicates a small flamability risk, and 4 indicates a high flamability risk;
ii) A health risk rating of 0 to 4, where 0 indicates a small health risk, and 4 indicates a high health risk;
iii) A reactivity risk rating of 0 to 4, where 0 indicates a small reactivity risk, and 4 indicates a high reactivity risk;
iv) A special notation to indicate specific risks, such as, but not restricted to an exceptionally high reactivity to water, or for strong oxidizers;

2. ESTABLISHES the United Nations Chemical Transportation Commission (UNCTC). The following are the UNCTC's duties:
i) To compile a list of, and define hazardous materials;
ii) To enumerate the list of hazardous materials, using the Arabic numerals (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9), using four digits for each substance. These 4-digit numbers will be known as Chemical Identification Numbers (CIN);
iii) To prescribe minimum requirements for the safe transportation of hazardous materials;
iv) To compile a list of all other chemical substances and assign a CIN to each. A new CIN is to be assigned to differing isomers and isotopes of substances with identical chemical makeups;
v) To determine the UNHR for the substances as described in sections 2i and 2iv;

3. MANDATES
i) That UN member nations comply with the UNCTC's requirements and employ the UNCTC's CINs when transporting substances over international borders and international waters;
ii) That containers containing hazardous materials are clearly marked as such, on all faces of the containers. These markings will include the UNHR and CIN for the substance held within the container;
iii) That, under non-emergency circumstances, no substances shall be placed in a container that is marked for another substance;
iv) That only in emergencies shall exceptions be made to the above clause, and only if the new containers are marked to inform all persons who are handling said containers that a different substance is within;
iv) That, under no circumstances, shall containers be vandalized, or mislabeled to misrepresent the substances contained within, or their potential hazard risks;

4. EMPHASIZES that this Resolution does not mandate any changes to the current intranational systems being used by member nations;

5. ENCOURAGES member nations to implicate the measures set forth by this Resolution in their own national laws;

6. ENCOURAGES member nations to establish or maintain a Hazardous Materials Spill Response Program

Behold. Help and feedback is requested, especially regarding the definition(s) I have or may need.

I take it that you're essentially setting up something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Response_Guidebook) (especially with the UNCTC)? If you're not familiar, it's worth taking a look at; the book is fantastically handy (I've got one from work).

Not an emergency response team, or anything involving the response -- only the classification, identification, and transportation standards.

But I suppose the meat of your link is rather similar to what the UNCTC would be doing -- putting together UN-wide labels and classifications for the levels of hazard, and the like.

Further comments?

I'm going to be doing a dry submission today, no TGs. See how far it gets as far as approvals.

I really do want to change that definition though. For now, I'll strike it, for the dry run.

Edit: Changes have been made to the draft.

Submitted, TGless, for a dry run.

Submitted, TGless, for a dry run.

Glad to be its first non-Norderian endorser. :D

Glad to be its first non-Norderian endorser. :D

Sexy. Danke.

Submitted, TGless, for a dry run.

The competition is on ... no telegrams for Chemical Transport Codes vs. No Caffeine for Us. ;)

Good luck. The IDU is in the middle of changing Delegates, but I'll ask the current and future Delegates to endorse your proposal.

Approved.

Wow, something like 36 approvals already, day one, and as far as I know, there's no TG campaign going on. That's almost more than my Repeal for the PRA got the whole time, even with a slight TG campaign.

Out of curiosity (and not of any full-headedness), when was the last time a proposal got to quorum without a TG cmpn?

Wow, something like 36 approvals already, day one, and as far as I know, there's no TG campaign going on. That's almost more than my Repeal for the PRA got the whole time, even with a slight TG campaign.

Out of curiosity (and not of any full-headedness), when was the last time a proposal got to quorum without a TG cmpn?
Probably resolution #1.

Wow, something like 36 approvals already, day one, and as far as I know, there's no TG campaign going on. That's almost more than my Repeal for the PRA got the whole time, even with a slight TG campaign.

Out of curiosity (and not of any full-headedness), when was the last time a proposal got to quorum without a TG cmpn?

I've been watching your proposal as well this week, and it really is rare for a proposal to collect so many endorsements without a telegram campaign. Back in late 2004 I had a Peaceful Uses of Outer Space proposal that collected somewhere between 80 and 100 endorsements without any campaigning. It did not reach quorum though, as back then there were some 144 endorsements typically required. :)

I think UN Delegates recognize a well written and interesting idea with your proposal. Collect the list of Delegates whom have endorsed it in case it doesn't make it in before Friday night, so you can campaign for it on a resubmission.

I've been watching your proposal as well this week, and it really is rare for a proposal to collect so many endorsements without a telegram campaign. Back in late 2004 I had a Peaceful Uses of Outer Space proposal that collected somewhere between 80 and 100 endorsements without any campaigning. It did not reach quorum though, as back then there were some 144 endorsements typically required. :)

I think UN Delegates recognize a well written and interesting idea with your proposal. Collect the list of Delegates whom have endorsed it in case it doesn't make it in before Friday night, so you can campaign for it on a resubmission.

Copy and paste will serve me well. At least, "copy target address" will be nice. I'm surprised, really. If it makes quorum, I'll probably request a delete, unless I can be convinced that the Resolution needs no definitions. I don't think I have to worry about it reaching quorum though, even if it keeps up at this rate.

I missed the end, so I didn't get the list of names of the delegates who approved it. I'm going to resubmit it right now, without the definition again, for a second dry run, since I don't feel like starting a TG campaign until I get home after Sunday.

Sooo, submitted again.

I missed the end, so I didn't get the list of names of the delegates who approved it. I'm going to resubmit it right now, without the definition again, for a second dry run, since I don't feel like starting a TG campaign until I get home after Sunday.

Sooo, submitted again.

On the IDU forum I kept a list of Delegates who previously endorsed the "Freedom of Assembly" proposal. Since our two proposals were back-to-back, there tended to be a large amount of overlap, with "Standard Chemical Transportation Codes" receiving more endorsements. In this case it would be safe for you to use the list of Delegates on my proposal as a shopping list for yours. :)

Some of the Delegates are regulars here, and may not need to be reminded ... as they are totally on the ball and have found both our proposals again. To you, many thanks!

Who wants to help with a TG campaign within the next week?

Who wants to help with a TG campaign within the next week?

I kind of do, just because I've never seen a TG campaign from the inside. We may mount one ourselves at some point.

ooc: on an aside to answer the old point: you can tell isomers in certain chemical notations. 1,2 ethylamine is different from 1,4-ethylamine for instance.

ooc: on an aside to answer the old point: you can tell isomers in certain chemical notations. 1,2 ethylamine is different from 1,4-ethylamine for instance.
...what the hell are either of those compounds?

Ethylamine only has one isomer. And it only has two carbons (eth-), so there is no 4 for anything to be on. Ethylamine would be 1-ethylamine; diethylamine would be 1,2-diethylamine. But because there could be no other arrangement, the numbers are unnecessary.

It's me getting very rusty at A-level chemistry and making things up as I sort-of remembered them. I actually started off with propyl-. Don't know why I switched.
I guess I could have asked the chemistry oracle in the room next door...but I didn't.

Well propyl- is 3, so that still doesn't add up.

If we assume, though, you meant butyldiamine, then butyl-1,2-diamine and butyl-1,4-diamine are different isomers. But this is all going off your original statement that they could be differentiated "by chemical formula" - which, by the very nature of isomers, is untrue. Both would be C4H9(NH2)2.

Which goes back to my saying CAS numbers are better...something Norderia's proposal adopts. So problem solved.

I can probably help TG.

I'm submitting it again today. I suppose it's after update right now? I know the last one just failed, so I suppose it is considered Tuesday in the game.

Help with a TG campaign!

You can write your own, but I figure nothing special is needed. This should be an easy one to get to quorum.

Revered delegate:

Approve the Chemical Transport Standards.
http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=transport
It's good, I promise.

Bump.

Any takers?

I'll do some tomorrow. Tonight, I really can't - I have two, no three! other proposals to TG for.

I appreciate the help.

Others? It won't take much, I'm sure only 100 or so pages of Delegates would do it.

I appreciate the help.

Others? It won't take much, I'm sure only 100 or so pages of Delegates would do it.

Sorry, I just can't spend long enough online (due to limitations on computer access at the local library) to find the time for that, especially as I've got various other things to do here (including finishing my contribution to the latest issue of an [amateur] magazine about roleplaying games, whose deadline is today... and, as I couldn't get into the forums at all for most of yesterday, simply catching up on what's been happening around here...) too.
But I have already approved the proposal (again)...

I'll do some if you tell me which pages to do. I can probably do 10 pages of regions tonight.

EDIT: And Ceorana supports this, as I don't think Amb. Lopez has gotten around to saying that yet...

I'll do some if you tell me which pages to do. I can probably do 10 pages of regions tonight.

EDIT: And Ceorana supports this, as I don't think Amb. Lopez has gotten around to saying that yet...

Pick a random place in the middle, say, starting at page 70 or so. I'm going to start from the end and work my way backwards.

Pick a random place in the middle, say, starting at page 70 or so. I'm going to start from the end and work my way backwards.

Sorry I got distracted. Is there some exact text I should use? I'm new at this part of it all.

Not really. Do what you want, so long as you're being nice. "Hey, approve this, it's good, 'n stuff" will do just fine. Provide a full link.

Not really. Do what you want, so long as you're being nice. "Hey, approve this, it's good, 'n stuff" will do just fine. Provide a full link.

Um yeah I'm kind of shy about using my own text... I think I will just use:

"Hey, approve this, it's good, 'n stuff"

with a link :)

Alright, Monday, I am doing the serious submission. I have the day off, so I can do TGing, but I would like those who offered to help to do some TGing during the 4 days it's up as well. The link is here, but don't directly copy and paste it. Jolt always shortens links. Copy the link address, or target, or whatever your browser says.

http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=transport

You're welcome to use whatever message you want, as long as it suggests the person approves it. No smart asses saying "This purposul is teh suckish n00b dont uproov it kthxbye" or I'll choppa you face.

Choppa you face so hard.... -shakes fist-

Okay, so Tuesday was the day for the serious submission. It's in, go ahead and approve it, I'm doing TGing, and I'd appreciate help.

I really like this proposal, and plus I'd like to get my feet wet with a TG campaign, so I'll help. What page should I start on? Does 200 sound good?

Sounds great. Thank you.

Okay, so Tuesday was the day for the serious submission. It's in, go ahead and approve it,

Approved (again). Is there any chance that you might approve 'Suppress International Piracy' (http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=piracy)?

I'll look it over when I check on my stuff.

Sorry for my lack of action. Rough work week, but I'm the only one here awake now, I will begin to TG :)

Start to TG for what? The proposal expired...

Start to TG for what? The proposal expired...

Yeah.. I see that now... I am woefully behind in my duties to this body.

So school is starting back up for me a week sooner than I thought. If I have the day off work tomorrow, I'll submit it, but I'm going to be busy until I can fix my work schedule to accomodate for school, like I should have a week ago.

There's a whole pile of stuff in quorum right now anyway, so I'm in no rush.

Just a heads up to anyone interested in approving, and especially those participating in a TG campaign:

I will be submitting this again on Monday, when I wake up (figure early evening GMT, pre-noon CST). Here is a copy of the draft to be submitted:

WHEREAS chemicals are a widely traded commodity;

WHEREAS no current standards exist for the identification or transportation of chemical substances;

WHEREAS the variety of nations in the UN may have myriad means of identifying and transporting chemical substances;

The United Nations;

BELIEVING that a lack of standards regarding the identification and transportation of chemical substances is a severe safety hazard;

1. ESTABLISHES the United Nations Hazard Rating (UNHR). The UNHR is a rating for common hazards of chemical substances. The UNHR includes the following information:
i) A flamability rating of 0 to 4, where 0 indicates a small flamability risk, and 4 indicates a high flamability risk;
ii) A health risk rating of 0 to 4, where 0 indicates a small health risk, and 4 indicates a high health risk;
iii) A reactivity risk rating of 0 to 4, where 0 indicates a small reactivity risk, and 4 indicates a high reactivity risk;
iv) A special notation to indicate specific risks, such as, but not restricted to an exceptionally high reactivity to water, or for strong oxidizers;

2. ESTABLISHES the United Nations Chemical Transportation Commission (UNCTC). The following are the UNCTC's duties:
i) To compile a list of, and define hazardous materials;
ii) To enumerate the list of hazardous materials, using the Arabic numerals (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9), using four digits for each substance. These 4-digit numbers will be known as Chemical Identification Numbers (CIN);
iii) To prescribe minimum requirements for the safe transportation of hazardous materials;
iv) To compile a list of all other chemical substances and assign a CIN to each. A new CIN is to be assigned to differing isomers and isotopes of substances with identical chemical makeups;
v) To determine the UNHR for the substances as described in sections 2i and 2iv;

3. MANDATES
i) That UN member nations comply with the UNCTC's requirements and employ the UNCTC's CINs when transporting substances over international borders and international waters;
ii) That containers containing hazardous materials are clearly marked as such, on all faces of the containers. These markings will include the UNHR and CIN for the substance held within the container;
iii) That, under non-emergency circumstances, no substances shall be placed in a container that is marked for another substance;
iv) That only in emergencies shall exceptions be made to the above clause, and only if the new containers are marked to inform all persons who are handling said containers that a different substance is within;
iv) That, under no circumstances, shall containers be vandalized, or mislabeled to misrepresent the substances contained within, or their potential hazard risks;

4. EMPHASIZES that this Resolution does not mandate any changes to the current intranational systems being used by member nations;

5. ENCOURAGES member nations to implicate the measures set forth by this Resolution in their own national laws;

6. ENCOURAGES member nations to establish or maintain a Hazardous Materials Spill Response Program

TG campaigns will begin after I have submitted it. I will post in this thread after I submit it, providing a message to TG and a link. Keep in mind though, jolt automatically shortens the link, so use the "Copy link address" or similar function, don't just copy the link.

When doing the TG campaign, say so in this thread. I will begin on the last page. I need someone to begin on the first page, someone to begin on roughly the 300th page from the beginning, someone from the 300th page from the end, and so on for as many people as do the TG campaign. I doubt there will be much. Post in the thread letting everyone know what pages you have covered.

Just a heads up to anyone interested in approving, and especially those participating in a TG campaign:

TG campaigns will begin after I have submitted it. I will post in this thread after I submit it, providing a message to TG and a link. Keep in mind though, jolt automatically shortens the link, so use the "Copy link address" or similar function, don't just copy the link.

When doing the TG campaign, say so in this thread. I will begin on the last page. I need someone to begin on the first page, someone to begin on roughly the 300th page from the beginning, someone from the 300th page from the end, and so on for as many people as do the TG campaign. I doubt there will be much. Post in the thread letting everyone know what pages you have covered.

I again express a desire to help :) Could someone post in this thread a url that can take you right to where you need to approve? I have to admit, I haven't approved many resolutions :)

I'll post the URL when I submit it, however, you have to keep in mind that jolt will shorten it. You'll have to use your "Copy Link Address" or similar function to get the link.

I'll post the URL when I submit it, however, you have to keep in mind that jolt will shorten it. You'll have to use your "Copy Link Address" or similar function to get the link.

Ah the infinite wisdom of Jolt.

It is go time.

I need a taker for the 1st page on up with TG campaigning.

"Esteemed Delegate;

I encourage you to approve this proposal regarding the safe international transportation and identification of chemicals. Your help getting this proposal to quorum would be greatly appreciated (alternately, "Most excellent").

http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=transport

Thank you."

Make sure you copy the link using the "Copy Link Address" function, and paste it into your TG separately. Then you can copy the whole TG.

Please let me know what pages you are doing, and have done. Thanks to everyone helping.

Ah the infinite wisdom of Jolt.Actually, it's a very good idea, and I wish more boards would do it. Some URLs are insanely long and break pages. This keeps that from happening.

What would probably be easier for people being part of the TG campaign, however, would be to simply use the "quote" function and copy the text wholesale. The link will be unmolested in that format.

I'll try and get my regional delegate to endorse it and then hopefully send a few such telegrams to other delegates.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

I will be revising the proposal and submitting it on Monday.

People always submit Monday! It's a good idea, more people are on, but I'm only every on for a few minutes during the week. Oh well, such is life.

Okay, I lied. Tuesday. Work caught me by surprise today, didn't have time to submit it.

OOC: I'll approve it (again) this evening, no need for a TG.

I lied again. I was surprised today, didn't have a chance to work on it.

Sooooo, delayed for another week while I make a few revisions.