NationStates Jolt Archive

Description: Proposes: That any extra tuition needed by people in education is paid for by the government giving all people an equal chance in education regardless of wealth.

Recognizes: That nations may not have control over private tuition companies

Proposals:

1) All tuition fees are scrapped. This includes university tuition fees and any other tuition fees through the education systems.

2) Extra support is given to students who find it hard to pay for other fees such as accommodation and food.

No. Higher education is not a right. Someone has to pay for it: this would mean a tax hike for low earners in Gruenberg, meaning they'd have to work more...and have less time for study. Self-defeating and pointless.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

The UN has already ensured that basic education is freely available. Further education is less difficult to justify.

You'd need to supply a very strong argument to get this anywhere. As it is, Hirota will oppose. Hirotan youths have the chance to attend university for free if they volunteer for 2 years national service.

I'm always amused when people propose the elimination of all fees for something without coming up with a substitute way to pay for it.

"No, really! All those new college-educated students will vastly increase national prosperity, so we won't even need to raise taxes! I'm so sure of it! The fact that it's free will mean that all college students will become motivated to finish in the least amount of time so they can be productive members of the workforce. Patriotism demands it!"

"No, I can't imagine that college kids would become unproductive leaches, sucking off the goverment teat for as long as the law allows, so they don't ever have to pay taxes and work for a living. Why do you ask?"

No. Higher education is not a right. Someone has to pay for it: this would mean a tax hike for low earners in Gruenberg, meaning they'd have to work more...and have less time for study. Self-defeating and pointless.

~Rono Pyandran
Chief of Staff

What about taking measures to restrict university entry to a relatively small number of people doing serious courses (like the UKs HE system used to be). The rest who would ordinarily go and do media studies or vague managment degrees at lesser universities would then be encouraged to do more vocational and on the job learning earning them vocational deplomas instead of degrees. The on the job training could pay for itself, and most governments could handle the costs of a reduced number of HE students.

In short-

Small number of HE entrants on really challenging courses.

Others who would have gone to university encouraged to do 'on the job' training earning them vocational deplomas.

Fewer HE students (say 5% of the population), so paying all student fees affordable for governments.

Degrees seen as really prestigious.

Favours the able rather than the wealthy.

People could also pay to attend university privately if they wished.

What about taking measures to restrict university entry to a relatively small number of people doing serious courses (like the UKs HE system used to be). The rest who would ordinarily go and do media studies or vague managment degrees at lesser universities would then be encouraged to do more vocational and on the job learning earning them vocational deplomas instead of degrees. The on the job training could pay for itself, and most governments could handle the costs of a reduced number of HE students.
The media is an industry. Management is a profession. These courses can be vocational. That's assuming that media studies isn't a worthwhile pursuit in itself anyway; I don't see why not, given how dominated our culture is by the media. Seems to me to be quite a good thing to study it.

Nonetheless, all of what you're suggesting seems to be a national issue. I don't see the value in a UN proposal on the subject: one size won't fit all in this case.

That's assuming that media studies isn't a worthwhile pursuit in itself anyway

In the UK, Media Studies is often cited in everyday conversation as the archetypal degree taken up by slackers who didn't go to uni for any particular reason.

However, considering that most of the mass media is rather vapid and free of any worthwhile content, IMHO a study of the media itself is something of a waste of time. Study from a social psychology or sociological perspective of the effects and methods of the media is much more justifiable though.

I agree that this issue is a national rather than global one though, ideally the UN could act along these lines, but it would only be feasable in richer nations. The point which I wanted to make was that contrary to what had been posted, government funded HE is not impossible, nor even impractical, provided that it is carefully managed and limited.

In the UK, Media Studies is often cited in everyday conversation as the archetypal degree taken up by slackers who didn't go to uni for any particular reason.
OOC: Given I go to university in the UK, I am aware of this. That a few Telegraph columnists say it doesn't make it any less complete bullshit.

However, considering that most of the mass media is rather vapid and free of any worthwhile content, IMHO a study of the media itself is something of a waste of time. Study from a social psychology or sociological perspective of the effects and methods of the media is much more justifiable though.
What do you think media studies is? It incorporates sociology and psychology. Besides, the issue is not whether mass media is vapid - probably is. But then, much of political debate is vapid. Doesn't mean we shouldn't study it. Big Brother is shit: it is still an interesting social phenomenon, and it tells us something - not so much how unique our culture is, but how reflective it is of past ones.

I agree that this issue is a national rather than global one though, ideally the UN could act along these lines, but it would only be feasable in richer nations. The point which I wanted to make was that contrary to what had been posted, government funded HE is not impossible, nor even impractical, provided that it is carefully managed and limited.
I wasn't saying it was impossible in the UK, or in other countries. I was saying it was undesirable in Gruenberg.

Anyway, this is all a hijack, so I'll stop.