NationStates Jolt Archive

[DRAFT 3]
I'll fix spelling problems with the spell checker.

BELEIVING That slavery is a barbaric practice not befitting 21st century society.

DECLARING That no person should ever again be forced into slavery, or treated as property.

DEFINING A slave as one who is owned, or declared propterty of anothe person/group; or a person who is a victim of forced labour.

DEFINING Forced labour as labour conducted against the will of the labourer, under threat of severe bodily harm, financial ruin or death against the laborer, or that of those for whom they care.

EXCLUDING From the above definition (assuming persons involved are treated humanely, and appropriately compensated for their efforts):

(I)Any work or service normally required of a person who is under detention in consequence of a lawful order of a court, or of a person during conditional release from such detention;
(II)Any service of a military character and, in countries where conscientious objection is recognized, any national service required by law of conscientious objectors.
(III) Any service exacted in cases of emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community.
(IV) Any work or service which forms part of normal civil obligations.

DEFINING The slave trade as the trading, selling, purchasing, distributing, bartering, or giving of a person as property.

DEFINING A slave trader/slaver/slave master as one who sells, barters, trades, gives, distributes or claims ownership of a human being.

MANDATING That slavery and the slave trade shall be outlawed in all UN nations.

MANDATING That no UN Nation may allow slaves to be traded through their borders, or their citizens to be enslaved overseas.

MANDATING That no UN Nation may harbour slave traders, or those peripherally but knowingly involved with the slave trade.

INSTRUCTING All UN Nations to halt shipments of slaves where found in UN jurisdiction, and to liberate found slaves and house them until they are able to return to, or start a new life of freedom.

MANDATING All UN Nations punish those violating the above clauses however they please with in UN Guidlines, but with a minimum of a 20-year prison sentence.

STRONGLY URGING UN Nations to pressure Non-UN Nations into outlawing slavery and the slave trade.

STRONGLY URGING UN Nations to halt trade with slavery supporting Non-UN Nations.

Alright, I'm going at this again...any thoughts?

INSTRUCTING All UN Nations to halt shipments of slaves where found, and to free said slaves and bring them somewhere where they will not be enslaved again; as well as imprison those found knowingly trading the slaves.Believe that the term would be Piracy by many nations both in the UN and outside it. Thus to incourage the halting of shipments of any kind between nations should not be something the UN is involved in. Especialy when there are more nations outside the UN membership that might be involved in this than those of members.

DEFINING Forced labour as labour conducted against the will of the labourer, under threat of severe bodily harm, financial ruin or death against the labouror, or those for whom they care.Does this also include criminals sent to a work camp or prison to do time and labor while there? As I'm sure the criminals will love this one as it means they don't have to work.

MANDATING That no UN Nation may allow slaves to be traded through their borders, or their citiczens to be enslaved overseas.So we are expected to turn away visistors from other nations who come to our nation for whatever reason simply because they have slaves. Thus we must refuse to deal any longer with nations we have been allied with for far longer than the UN has been here.

On the part about citizens being enslaved overseas.. we feel this could be seen as our action to send criminals to a prison in another nation that deals with them. As all those tried and found guilty are sent to prison outside our borders under arrangements with another nation for their care and confinement. This again means a problem should those criminals claim they are slaves and being moved to another place and only being moved to another nation outside the UN to avoid coming under protection of this... should it get passed and become a resolution.

DEFINING The slave trade as the trading, selling, purchasing, distributing, bartering, or giving of a person as property.We find a problem with the last part of this in the 'giving of a person as property' as under arranged marriages the parents of the female give their daughter as property of the male. Thus it means the parents are slave traders and thus.. subject to whatever punishment might be imposed on them under this when they give their daughers in marriage.

DEFINES A slave trader/slaver/slave master as one who sells, barters, trades, gives, distributes or claims ownership of a human being.Under our family system the male owns his wives and children as long as they are under his roof. Thus another problem here for us in our marriages. So all our married males are as defined here... ST/S/SM

BELEIVING That slavery is a barbaric practice not befitting 21st century society.
Good.

DECLARING That no person should ever again be forced into slavery, or treated as property.
Perhaps redundant, but I understand why it's there.

DEFINING A slave as one who is owned, or declared propterty of anothe person/group; or a person who is a victim of forced labour.
Check your spelling on property and another. Make exceptions for criminals doing work with a prison program. Otherwise okay.

DEFINING Forced labour as labour conducted against the will of the labourer, under threat of severe bodily harm, financial ruin or death against the labouror, or those for whom they care.
"or that of those for whom the laborer cares."

DEFINING The slave trade as the trading, selling, purchasing, distributing, bartering, or giving of a person as property.
Good.

DEFINES A slave trader/slaver/slave master as one who sells, barters, trades, gives, distributes or claims ownership of a human being.
Good.

MANDATING That slavery and the slave trade shall be outlawed in all UN nations.
Huzzah!

MANDATING That no UN Nation may allow slaves to be traded through their borders, or their citiczens to be enslaved overseas.
Check spelling on citizens. Otherwise good.

MANDATING That no UN Nation may harbour slave traders, or those peripherally but knowingly involved with the slave trade.
Nice use of the word peripherally. I like that touch. Much cleaner than saying indirectly. Good.

INSTRUCTING All UN Nations to halt shipments of slaves where found, and to free said slaves and bring them somewhere where they will not be enslaved again; as well as imprison those found knowingly trading the slaves.
Couple of problems with this one. First, jurisdiction. The UN Nation must be the receiving or waypoint nation in order to justify a nation's action against international trade. Limit this clause to the UN Nation's jurisdiction. Also, "and to free said slaves and bring them somewhere where they will not be enslaved again" sounds very sloppy and loose. It needs delicate rewording, and I don't know how. Also, grammatical nit-picking, make the last clause, post-semi-colon, a seperate sentence. You also might want to take out the word imprison, as that could lead to a whole batch of problems. Use something like "appropriately punish" to avoid sticking the UN's nose into the individual nations' legal systems.

STRONGLY URGING UN Nations to pressure Non-UN Nations into outlawing slavery and the slave trade.
Righteous.

STRONGLY URGING UN Nations to halt trade with slavery supporting Non-UN Nations.
Righteous.

Not bad. I think you're missing information about what is to be done with people caught trading slaves, excepting the clause about stopping shipments. Don't expressly prescribe a punishment, but put in a clause that mandates that slave traders be punished to the full extent of the law.

NO No NO NO!The Confederacy of South Southaven makes over 40% of its manuifactured goods from slave labor, and over 80% of farmers use slave labour in the Confederacy. This would ruin our economic growth.

NO No NO NO!The Confederacy of South Southaven makes over 40% of its manuifactured goods from slave labor, and over 80% of farmers use slave labour in the Confederacy. This would ruin our economic growth.
Why do you care, you're not even in the UN?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

NO No NO NO!The Confederacy of South Southaven makes over 40% of its manuifactured goods from slave labor, and over 80% of farmers use slave labour in the Confederacy. This would ruin our economic growth.

Perhaps then, you should look into other economic agendas that, you know, don't severly exploit the rights and priveliges of your fellow common man?

EDIT: I like the idea, by the way. Still could use alittle work, but it would be nice to have a Ban Slavery resolution that actually bans slavery.

Excellent! While there are serious issues to be worked out and some editing needed, we believe this is a fine start toward a much-needed resolution. NSUN Resolution #6, "Banning Slavery," well-intentioned though it is, is arguably a rather toothless and ineffective piece of legislation. This draft has much more substance and potency.

We would commend the author's careful attention to the comments of the honorable representative of Norderia. The issue of jurisdiction is a particularly touchy one. We'll try to help with that as time permits.

We should also raise the issue of a duplication violation with regard to the last clause of NSUN Resolution #6. It may be necessary to repeal that resolution first. We wish that wasn't the case, but it may be.

We look forward to further development of this draft and hope to be able to contribute to it.

By order of His Royal Highness, the Prince of Ausserland:

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

DEFINES A slave trader/slaver/slave master as one who sells, barters, trades, gives, distributes or claims ownership of a human being.
Under our family system the male owns his wives and children as long as they are under his roof. Thus another problem here for us in our marriages. So all our married males are as defined here... ST/S/SM

Well it's to bad that I don't see the difference between a man owning his wife and kids, and a man owning another man....Oh wait, there is no difference.

Still bans conscription, doesn't it?

Still bans conscription, doesn't it?

I suppose it does...this is an issue I can't decide on. I don't beleive in conscription, however I fear that if I don't exclude it from the proposal it'll never pass, thus not accomplishing anything at all.

I suppose it does...this is an issue I can't decide on. I don't beleive in conscription, however I fear that if I don't exclude it from the proposal it'll never pass, thus not accomplishing anything at all.
It's an absolute deal-breaker for us. Nations rely on calling drafts in war time. However objectionable you may find that, the idea of their being conquered by nations not obliged to follow Wolfish because they couldn't muster a defence is more objectionable to us.

We agree with our distinguished colleague from Gruenberg. It would be a deal-breaker for us, too. We believe there must be exceptions for military service (at least in times of national emergency) and for work required under lawfully imposed sentences for crimes committed.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

We would propose the following exceptions:
1. Any work or service normally required of a person who is under detention in consequence of a lawful order of a court, or of a person during conditional release from such detention;
2. Any service of a military character and, in countries where conscientious objection is recognized, any national service required by law of conscientious objectors;
3. Any service exacted in cases of emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community;
4. Any work or service which forms part of normal civil obligations.
OOC: Taken from Article 8 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

Alright, threw that in there almost word-for-word. I still feel iffy about this, of course it doesn't forbid future legislation on conscription either...

I have to say that like dancing banna-man I don't belive in concription. But as I read this Proposal I saw the problem right away banning concription is not exactly about to happen. Actualy as I read it few people stuck out in my mind Ausserland and Gruenberg where right at the top and I wasn't really surprised to see them there. (there is one other I thought of)

DEFINING Forced labour as labour conducted against the will of the labourer, under threat of severe bodily harm, financial ruin or death against the laborer, or that of those for whom they care.

EXCLUDING From the above definition (assuming persons involved are treated humanely, and appropriately compensated for their efforts):

I smell trouble here. Excluding the people from ALL of the conditions stated in the above definition would not be good. Under no circumstances should the death or ruin of a person or their significants be permitted. However, labor conducted against the will may be protected in cases such as the exceptions listed below the Excluding clause. Reword the EXCLUDING clause to limit the exclusion to labor conducted against the will of the laborer, to be sure that death and ruin are not excluded.

INSTRUCTING All UN Nations to halt shipments of slaves where found in UN jurisdiction, and to liberate found slaves and house them until they are able to return to, or start a new life. As well as properly punish those found knowingly trading the slaves.

Better, but some wording troubles. you begin a clause, "liberate found slaves an house them until they are able to return to" and then you move on to another one. It appears that you intend to say "Return to life, or start a new life." Something about this doesn't sound right, and the sentence might make some people stumble. Since this case refers to people being transported to or through UN nations, perhaps the found slaves should be returned to their country of citizenship, or if the risk is too great, to be sent to a receiving nation that welcomes immigrants. In any event, this is not an easy clause. Someone else have an idea here?

And in regards to the last sentence, it definitly helps that it is set aside as a separate sentence, but it needs to be reworded to form a complete one. "Those found knowingly trading slaves are to be [properly and/or appropriately] [punished or prosecuted].

There also doesn't appear to be a clause mandating the punishment of people involved in slave trade, except in the Clause where transportation through UN territory is covered. Does anyone think one is necessary?


I think you'll just have to bite the bullet about conscription. I don't like it either (OOC: Especially since I'm of the age for the next several years), but this is not the place to make that argument, if ever there is one. It'll just have to remain a peeve. Don't jeopardize this Resolution by taking a stand against it here.



Tommo the Stout
UN Ambassador of Norderia
Delegate from the North Sea

The people of Cluichstan would like to see one minor revision.

(II)Any service of a military character and, in countries where conscientious objection is recognized, any national service required by law of conscientious objectors.

Please strike reference to "conscientious objection," as we do not allow people to object to military service for any reason other than physical or mental disabilities that would prevent them from serving.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

Cluich, it states quite clearly that that part only relates to nations that have already recognised conscientious objection. As such, it would not have an effect upon your laws.

We realise that the representative of Enn is entirely correct, but we would prefer not to see even the notion of "conscientious objection" recognised by this austere body.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

We realise that the representative of Enn is entirely correct, but we would prefer not to see even the notion of "conscientious objection" recognised by this austere body.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

Ausserland would insist on inclusion of alternative national service and we have no problem with the term "conscientious objection." It might be better to broaden the scope of the exception, though. We'd suggest:

(II) Military service or alternative national service required by law.

Lorelei M. Ahlmann
Ambassador-at-Large

We find a problem with the last part of this in the 'giving of a person as property' as under arranged marriages the parents of the female give their daughter as property of the male. Thus it means the parents are slave traders and thus.. subject to whatever punishment might be imposed on them under this when they give their daughers in marriage.

Under our family system the male owns his wives and children as long as they are under his roof. Thus another problem here for us in our marriages. So all our married males are as defined here... ST/S/SM

The FRP finds that this problem is essentially an extension of the problem at issue here. The description of people as property in any form is, in fact, simply another facet of slavery in general. Therefore, we see no problem whatsoever in the fact that this scenario is included in this legislation, and condemn the practice, even if it is symbolic, of treating any persons as property to be synonymous with slavery.

-James Schmitt
FRP Foreign Minister

'oh' mumbles Sir Albert, 'ah thought this was a motion to ban slavering, not slavery, and ah wrote all those notes too......such a nasty habit too, by eck...'

I used to support slavery, but then they sent me away, to teach me how to be sensible, logical, responsible, and practical

I used to support slavery, but then they sent me away, to teach me how to be sensible, logical, responsible, and practical

Gah! More Supertramp! :eek:

I'll fix spelling problems with the spell checker.
BELEIVING That slavery is a barbaric practice not befitting 21st century society.

The spell-checker doesn't look at words that are all upper-case: That should be 'BELIEVING', not 'BELEIVING'...
There are nations within the NSUN (such as, for example, Cobdenia) that aren't in the 21st century...

DECLARING That no person should ever again be forced into slavery, or treated as property.

Okay.

DEFINING A slave as one who is owned, or declared propterty of anothe person/group; or a person who is a victim of forced labour.

DEFINING Forced labour as labour conducted against the will of the labourer, under threat of severe bodily harm, financial ruin or death against the laborer, or that of those for whom they care.

EXCLUDING From the above definition (assuming persons involved are treated humanely, and appropriately compensated for their efforts):

There are a few points where the spelling needs to be corrected, and the grammar of the 'DEFINING' clause could -- as somebody else has already said -- do with improvement.

(I)Any work or service normally required of a person who is under detention in consequence of a lawful order of a court, or of a person during conditional release from such detention;
(II) Any service of a military character and, in countries where conscientious objection is recognized, any national service required by law of conscientious objectors.
(III) Any service exacted in cases of emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community.
(IV) Any work or service which forms part of normal civil obligations.

Generally acceptable, but you might want to specify that the "service of a military nature" covered by exemption (II) must be in the national armed forces, because otherwise people could try forcing others into their private service: I'd suggest replacing the exemption's current text with something along the lines of _
"(II) Any 'national service', in either a military or a civil role that is required by law (including, in countries where conscientious objection to military service is recognized, any alternative non-military services that are specified for conscientious objectors)."

DEFINING The slave trade as the trading, selling, purchasing, distributing, bartering, or giving of a person as property.

DEFINING A slave trader/slaver/slave master as one who sells, barters, trades, gives, distributes or claims ownership of a human being.

MANDATING That slavery and the slave trade shall be outlawed in all UN nations.

Okay.

MANDATING That no UN Nation may allow slaves to be traded through their borders, or their citizens to be enslaved overseas.

Shouldn't this clause, and the following ones as well, be in "MANDATES" form rather than "MANDATING"?

'Yes' to the first part.
Wouldn't the second part, as currently written, require the UN nations to intervene forcibly in the other nations concerned? Oh, and I'd suggest replacing "citizens" by "nationals", to close the loophole that some UN member-nations don't classify all -- or, in certain cases, any -- of their nationals as "citizens"...

MANDATING That no UN Nation may harbour slave traders, or those peripherally but knowingly involved with the slave trade.

Reasonable, I think, given that the precise definition of "peripherally but knowingly involved" is still left for each nation to set for itself.

INSTRUCTING All UN Nations to halt shipments of slaves where found in UN jurisdiction, and to liberate found slaves and house them until they are able to return to, or start a new life of freedom.

The government of St Edmund wouldn't object if the UN "urged" its member-nations to halt any shipments of slaves that might be found in international waters, as far as this was practicable, too. (OOC: and no, this wouldn't be "piracy" as somebody suggested earlier... or, at least, it wasn't counted as such in RL when the British navy intercepted slavers on the high seas...)

MANDATING All UN Nations punish those violating the above clauses however they please with in UN Guidlines, but with a minimum of a 20-year prison sentence.

I'd suggest a change of wording to "within any limits set by previous UN resolutions", and I'm not sure that such a lengthy fixed minimum sentence would be either reasonable or -- considering how some people objected when I suggested a minimum sentence of just 5 years for murder -- widely acceptable...

STRONGLY URGING UN Nations to pressure Non-UN Nations into outlawing slavery and the slave trade.

Including pressure applied by the use of military force?

STRONGLY URGING UN Nations to halt trade with slavery supporting Non-UN Nations.

Reasonable, if the UN Secretariat agrees that it's legal.

There are nations within the NSUN (such as, for example, Cobdenia) that aren't in the 21st century..."Reasonable person" theory. Or, in this case, "reasonable nation". There are certain assumptions that Proposal authors must make. Just like I don't expect Proposals to be written for DLE scale insanity, I also don't expect them to take into account non-Modern nations.

Nothing against Cobdenia, or any other non-Modern nation, but authors need to be given a little leeway. Especially in a preamble.

Generally acceptable, but you might want to specify that the "service of a military nature" covered by exemption (II) must be in the national armed forces, because otherwise people could try forcing others into their private service: I'd suggest replacing the exemption's current text with something along the lines of _
"(II) Any 'national service', in either a military or a civil role that is required by law (including, in countries where conscientious objection to military service is recognized, any alternative non-military services that are specified for conscientious objectors)."
Good points, but it should be modified to include services of lower levels of government (provincial militias, etc.).

Good points, but it should be modified to include services of lower levels of government (provincial militias, etc.).

Good point, but I think that my actual suggestion for alternative wording would probably cover that anyway...

I used to support slavery, but then they sent me away, to teach me how to be sensible, logical, responsible, and practical

Applauds Cobdenia.