NationStates Jolt Archive

It has come to the attention of several politicians in Woopdedoo that pollution rates are higher than ever. We, over in Woopdedoo believe it is our responsibility to put a stop to all pollution caused by automated vehicles. We understand the needs of many people needing to travel, but we believe that if more money gets imbursed into public transport then this will not be an issue. Not only will this cause less pollution in our atmosphere, but it will also put a stop to city congestion. For those of you that completely disagree with the above statement, your frustration is understood. Due to this, we have discussed all other possibilities available, and have come up with the thought of all cars becoming completely reliable on electricity as its fuel source. This is an environmentally friendly sollution, as it has no fuel emmissions at all. ALL NATIONS PLEASE CONSIDER THE ABOVE VERY SERIOUSLY. THIS MAY BE THE ANSWER THE WORLD IS LOOKING FOR!

And how are you going to generate all of the extra electricity that this would require?

There is no sort of fuel that would last for ever or even long enough to be accounted as that. You CANNOT use electricity as an option, because it is not renewable. in fact, there is no renewable sort of fuel which would generate such amounts of electricity without harm to the environment. To generate enough electricity for, let's say Flobos, You'd need to:
a) cover all the land with wind generated power plants, but that would severely alter the passage of air masses and would be harmful to neighboring countries, as well as Flobos in the large climate changes caused therein.
b) build cheap nuclear power plants. Seriously, this might work, but Flobos is under the UN lawas and such amounts of radioactive isotopes as would be needed for would be considered dangerous, thus we could not actually run these power plants.
c) Build lots of power plants powered by fuel. Still going to have a lot of pollution on our hands.


Since Flobos is known for it's laziness, i need not explain why i'm not naming more of the possible methods. Still, if you want to get rid of pollution by making cars run on electricity, you are clearly a nut.

You could just not use cars. They were never imported into Darsomir and remain banned. Instead we use some electric motorcycles (not many, and we are attempting to use renewable energy), horses, carriages and steam-powered trains.

The Saturn Corp is against this idea. Electric cars are not practical for the average consumer. They don't have the acceleration, and they take too long to recharge. And the pollution will still be generated elsewhere, so it won't even help that problem.

Finally, it interferes with one of our major industries, Auto Manufacturing, and we oppose it for that reason.

Woopdedoo, your idea makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it's hard to explain your idea to others and especially the august members of this body. Finally there is the past imperfect tense of technology, which is a grammatical term for people still in the coal age.

This resolution is not a question of power generation. (Well it is, but only indirectly.) The energy that would have been generated from gas engines in automobiles would have to be generated from other methods at central locations. This is a question of pollution. In general gas and diesel engines operate in dense urban areas where people literally walk several feet nearby. There is a trend towards cleaner burning fuels, such as a recent ultra low sulfur grade for the United States which is tighter than the current EU standard, but in general no emissions is always better than cleaner emissions.

The technology for this is here today, although parts of the solution are kept under wraps by patent law. Modern electric engines can push a car with the same acceleration as most passenger vehicles on the market to speeds of reasonable rates. Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries can effectively store the energy needed for the average city commuter. The combination of these two technologies can result in an effective EV economy for the masses. The partial solution "plug in hybrid technology" has a small gas system for long trips but uses the battery for trips under a certain distance.

Unfortunately NiMH technology is held under patent by the gas companies and is only permitted for the Toyota hybrids.

Without such battery technology it is still possible to create small commuter cars for the urban environment. Such cars have limited speed and distance requirements but are suitable for urban conditions.

As to where energy for cars would come from, the question is actually when. Electric power demand is not uniform over time. It is generally less needed at night when electric cars would be recharging. So the average nation would have the capacity on their electric grids.

The only question is that of past technology nations. That's the problem with NationStates, one cannot assume a minimum level of technology.

But NationStates isn't real life. Since there are some FT nations that would already have discovered NiMH batteries long ago, the international patents would have expired, so the NiMH technology ought to be free to use.

ooc: And as far as I know 'hybridism' isn't unique to Toyota, it's been in the Honda camp a while now and BMW and...need I go on?

ic: Making cars cleaner is all very well, but it's not a real solution. Fast cars drink octane, solar cars only work in the desert, gas is not easily compressed for transfer, hybrids are causing a problem elsewhere - unless there's a kinetic recharge available, ethanol still produces the harmful carbon compounds. Diesel engines are becoming more popular, but it is stil 'impure'.
Those nations only just receiving the horseless-chariots are notoriously inefficient, but then their pollution comes from coal-burning trains.
Encouraging cleaner public transport is a far better option, as shown by my nation's ban of cars from cities. Park and rides on clean hydrogen-fuel-cell buses, technology far more efficient on the larger scale. Not that many own cars, but horses are banned from the cities too except for the police.

The other great problem with electrical cars, we should note, is that they are likely to be prone to being disabled by far less severe accidents, damage and weather conditions than ordinary propellant vehicles. An electrical engine, with numerous components necessary for the efficient passage of electrical impulses and other such functions, would be far more likely to break down and cause a customer significant difficulties. Equally, because the batteries would have to be recharged reasonably frequently (unless you are using a dynamo system, which would be an interesting avenue to explore) and indeed replaced more frequently than a regular car engine. Ultimately, more power generation would be required than per average and this would lead to the vexing question, already discussed above, of whence this power would be derived, coming to the fore.

I agree with Randomea's assertion that public transport is the way to go and to invest in this sector, rather than try and engineer the notoriously anti-environmental private, capitalist sector as a solitary solution. Thus, the approach of engineering the private sector should be done hand-in-hand with the promotion of mass transit systems, based upon communal usage. This could also extend to car-pooling and designating road lanes for pooled cars, as well as reducing road tolls and/or road taxes for such vehicles.

We should not, I caution, explore the hydrogen fuel economy as a panacea or even a solution. Hydrogen fuel is expensive, near impossible to produce, highly inefficient and of little practical value therefore. We should shun it.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

But NationStates isn't real life.

Agreed. The NationStates problem is past tech, not patents. The patent discussion is only relevant when discussing whether or not it is possible with the present technology.

Actually, (and I'm a RL Prius driver) the Toyota Synergy Hybrid drive is not the best on the market. One can even argue that the electric motors are getting so good that the gas engine should only be used for charging the battery. This certainly wasn't the case for my 2002 model, the electric engine barely functions at speeds over 20 MPH, unless you are going downhill. The 2004 and 2006 electric power train has significantly improved, I think the 2006 model can go to 40 MPH on pure electric power alone.

But the batteries are definitely superior. If you designed a plug in prius with 100% NiMH battery technology you would see a revolution in the market.

But remember this resolution was not about energy per se, but about the problems of multiple exhaust systems in dense urban areas. A very good example of this is the situation in the ports of California. Here a combination of diesel trains, ships and trucks converge into a single setting. Current plans include a strict enforcement of standards, especially low sulfur diesel for vessels wanting to enter the port, and eventually for trains. The US has already passed low sulfur regulations for trucks. Cancer rates around the port are significantly higher than the average.

Most of the companies are perfectly willing to try new technology, as long as they can be assured that the technology will work.

For the simple fact that the Oppressed Peoples of Bolgaronopoto may profit from the IT industry surrounding the development and upkeep of non-gas powered vehicles; our collective vote is a Yay.

We in the nation of Al Thera feel that while electic automobiles are a nice idea, electricity isn't created by magic and a majority of that power comes from the burning of fossil fuels. It would be more cost effective to develop teleportation machines than force the world to move to electric cars.

Perhaps a better use of your time would be to create a mandate that requires at least 25% of a nations power generation to come from renewable resources. With out hot springs and streams, we would more than welcome that sort of legislations.

I think the 2006 model can go to 40 MPH on pure electric power alone.Heh. My mother's 2000 Volkswagen Golf (5-speed manual trans) could get 40+ MPG on the highway. Who needs a hybrid?

Official Message
From The
Ministry of Hospitality


Esteemed Representatives to the United Nations,

As the Minister of Hospitality for the Tire-Burning Torque Empire of HotRodia, I would like to express our nation's disappointment in this effort to address the "problem" of car pollution. This proposal would not, if passed, solves the problem at all. It would only damage our nation's economy and allow non-UN nations to take precedence over us in the Automobile Manufacturing Sector, as well as cause significant harm to the maintainence of HotRodian cultural values. Please, think of the HotRods.

With Respect,

Minister of Hospitality
Sam I Am

Uh oh, here comes the dreaded "developing nations" argument...