NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi all,

I've sent this one through the UN process once to see how many endorsements it would get without a TG campaign, and it looks fairly encouraging. Could some of you kind people use your experience to have a look at it and tell me if there are any areas which could be tightened up, altered to provide a better congruence with existing regulations, etc?

SS

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Artistic Education

A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts.

Category: Education and Creativity

Area of Effect: Artistic

Proposed by: ShivaShiva

Description: All children should have the chance to take part in learning about and creating art at school, whether as part of their mandated curriculum, as optional subjects, or in after-school clubs, for as long as they remain in school.

'Art' here means the visual arts, music, and literature.

OOC: Um...yeah...this has already been posted in the Silly Proposals thread.

Ah yes, I see.. although as the only argument against it is

:rolleyes:

and a kinder poster has put

Weeeeell, the principle is sound. Artistic endeavour is a worthwhile pursuit. Any nation that frowns on such activity is poorer for it for their disapproval.

I'm not too bothered about that. :)

My pleasure. Though I apologies for the appalling abuse of the English language.

Many thanks. Back to the original question, is there anything I ought to do to it? I've noticed that most of the recent votes have been on much longer proposals that spend about a page defining things, but if I don't need to then I'd rather not. Simplicity is underrated.

Well, let's see. The first thing we need to do is to look at the rules for UN Proposals (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8913201&postcount=1). I thought there was a section in the rules that required a resolution to actually do something, as opposed to simply call for something without saying how that something can be achieved. There is a small section under format which may be the cause for this general belief.

Remember where I mentioned needing more than rhetoric? Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. This also includes Repeals with no argument, Proposals that are questions ("Don't you think we should...?"), and Proposals that are just too incomprehensible to make sense of.

The notion that "all children should have the chance to take part in learning about and creating art at school" is massively vague at best. The nature of the funding, the type and amount of the school involvement is left so vague that those who would want to avoid it could use the barest minimum of effort to comply with the resolution and those who would not want to avoid it can easily implement art education in their own nation.

There is another problem with the definition of school and the qualifier of "for as long as they remain in school." Yes this makes sense for public education, it even makes sense for private education of lower grades (through required standards) but once you get into higher eduction it gets odd. Some private corporations set up "schools" for specific technical training, especially in the fields of computers and engineering. Should a school that specializes in database training and certification also be required to offer art classes as well?

There is a subtle irony in designing a resolution that is very close to an issue currently in the system. (Issue #124 to be exact, although this mostly concerns higher education at the college level.) Passing a resolution does not cause the issue to no longer appear to UN members and since this is a small proposal and there are many UN resolutions it is certanly possible for someone to forget about it and technically be in role playing violation of following passed resolutions.

So, therefore I would suggest the following:
1) Put some teeth into the measure, make the nations do something.
2) Restrict this to education below the university level.
3) Establish a certification and qualification system. A good model in the music field is New York State School Music Association (http://www.nyssma.org/). But I'm sure this can ben generalized for art and wirting as well. This encourages students to strive to be their best and gives them a very good and balanced method for seeing how well they are doing.

Very helpful suggestions.

Many thanks. Back to the original question, is there anything I ought to do to it?

Please place it in the circular file by your desk.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/300245/2/istockphoto_300245_full_trash_can.jpg

Yes, very droll, I still await anything more useful than

:rolleyes:

You might be (probably not) interested to know that Adorno makes a link between hostility to creative endeavours and the authoritarian personality.

Yes, very droll, I still await anything more useful than



You might be (probably not) interested to know that Adorno makes a link between hostility to creative endeavours and the authoritarian personality.

OOC: I'm a professional writer, so I'm certainly not hostile to creative endeavours. However, in this particular aspect of the game -- i.e., the UN -- one of the biggest (if not the biggest) issues is where one draws the line between legislation that is of international import and that which is not. Stop trying to employ juvenile rhetoric ("if you're against my granting 'freedoms,' you must be some sort of psychotic dictator bent on crushing your citizens under your cruel, oppressive thumb"). This proposal -- and I'm being generous calling it that -- is a load of shite not worthy of consideration by an international body.

Good on you re: your chosen career path. I'd like to prove your disdain wrong by getting a rewrite of this through though. The two new categories aren't there for nothing, and I think it's disappointing that one from Industry will be up before one from Creativity, but that's the way it goes. I apologise for any misleading rhetoric.

The two new categories aren't there for nothing, and I think it's disappointing that one from Industry will be up before one from Creativity, but that's the way it goes.

OOC: There are several older categories that still don't have any successful resolutions (namely those about Firearms, Gambling, and Recreational Drugs), too, and quite a few nations think that the subjects covered by those should really be left under national jurisidiction, so don't expect everybody to agree that we must have proposals for those newer categories...

I think that it would be greatly improved if it were reformatted to look more like legislation that the UN currently deals with. We've gotten used to a certain level of sophistication in our subject matter. It's hard to give that up.

I agree that lists of definition are not always necessary, though it couldn't hurt to at least narrow a few areas. As mentioned by others, limiting it to a certain educational level or something along those lines would be a good idea.

All that said, there are nations who won't be too keen on artistic development amongst the populace. It creates ideas. We in Kivisto aren't necessarily too keen on those things.

There is also the issue that Cluich mentioned. There will be a great many who may not see this as a matter worthy of UN attention. Others will disagree with that point and will be referred to as "fluffies" by many other, much more vocal, nations.

For ourselves, Kivisto would probably oppose this on any number of real or imagined premises. We are one of the "psychotic dictator bent on crushing your citizens under our cruel, oppressive thumb" types that Cluich was referring to. Well, he implied that you called him that, but the shoe fits, so I'll wear it.

Have fun.

EDIT: Hello to St. Edmundan Antarctic. Didn't take you too long to get here, did it?

(Response to the polar one)

That's true, although the difference is that those categories were there from the start, and it would have been hard to predict which would have had attention and not. The new two, meanwhile, seem to have been explicitly created to fill holes left in the previous classification. I'm not saying anyone must, I'm just saying that maybe they might feel like it. The draft of this has got fifty signatures, without a TG campaign or the language and effort needed to fully UNify it, so I think there is a desire. But time will tell.

Kiv: It's my desire to keep it as unfluffy as possible, although I know that there are people/nation RPs who would say 'What's the point in learning art when you can teach people calculus and get them doing press-ups?' I'll try and avoid making it seem :fluffle: as far as possible, because the point of art is often not to be nice but to expose unpalatable truths, as you say yourself.

ooc: the problem is that a lot of delegation approval is knee jerk.

ic:
While the intention is admirable, I'm afraid there'll be many who resent the interference with what many see as a purely national issue.

Perhaps less of an emphasis on art but a more general approach?

'Mandates that every child in primary education has the opportunity to learn subjects in all genres from art and languages to maths, technology and science.'

'Mandates that every child in primary education has the opportunity to learn subjects in all genres from art and languages to maths, technology and science.'

I like that. It covers the artistry, as well as more fully developing education protocols across the board. Nice.

EDIT: Hello to St. Edmundan Antarctic. Didn't take you too long to get here, did it?

OOC: Oops! I think that had better be taken as an OOC post (and will re-label it accordingly now), because the country's UN membership has only just been confirmed and its ambassador hasn't been introduced (in that role, anyway) yet...