NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a quick repeal I wrote up that seems to be absolutely necessary given the abuse of the World Heritage List. I'd appreciate your help in getting it up to snuff so that it is ready to put to the delegates.

My Proposal:

Repeal United Nations Resolution #37 World Heritage List

Description: UN Resolution #37 shall be repealed and considered null and void

COMMENDING the intentions of Resolution 37 to protect the environment

CONCERNED with the problem of nations adding others to the list as a form of punishment

NOTING THAT the World Heritage List (WHL) does not include provisions for the removal of areas from the list

ALSO NOTING that the WHL does not define what is considered to be damage to the environment


The Original:

World Heritage List
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.


Category: Environmental
Industry Affected: Woodchipping
Proposed by: Van dieman land

Description: Recognising that all nations share a common global environment;

Recognising that sites of pristine environmental significance should be protected for all people; and

Recognising that a lack of environmental protection protocols currently exists:

It is proposed that a World Heritage List be established. All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally. Listed sites would be protected from logging, mining and other environmentally-damaging activities.

Votes For: 9,402
Votes Against: 7,623

Implemented: Sat Nov 15 2003

I've already got a repeal drafted here (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON/index.php?showtopic=63) on the DEFCON (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON) forum.

My draft repeal:

The United Nations,

APPRECIATING the desire to protect the global environment and sites of environmental significance;

NOTING that Resolution #37, "World Heritage List," does not define "environmental significance";

LAMENTING that the resolution permits nations to assign "environmental significance" to sites on the sovereign territory of other nations, thereby preventing their use for economically necessary activities, such as mining, logging, and even farming;

AFFIRMING that nations must retain the right to designate sites within their own territory as protected areas;

CONCERNED, however, that the lack of a definition of "environmental significance" and the ability to so label sites in nations outside one's own leaves this resolution and the World Heritage List that it created open to the possibility of dangerous abuses;

DEEPLY CONCERNED that such a possibility could become a reality and that the resolution and the World Heritage List that it created could be used as a tool of economic warfare or even a precursor to an actual military confrontation,

REPEALS Resolution #37, "World Heritage List."

Few problems with how I read this compared to repeals.

I don't see how a nation can list another nation legally. The resolution lists internally, and globally. Globally (to my mind anyway) involves something in common with the whole of the planet.

Nabbed from wikipedia:
The adjective "global" and adverb "globally" imply that the verb or noun to which they are applied applies to the entire Earth and all of its species and regions. It is sometimes used as a synonym for the much narrower international/internationally but this is incorrect:

Only two nations need to be involved to make something international, but, presumably, all must be potentially involved before it becomes truly global
Nations are concerned wholly and only with humanity's concerns, and that usually in a narrow time frame, whereas there are many global concerns that transcend species or generations.

So globally could mean all of something in an entire planet. For example, all trees. It's still patently silly of course, because a nation would affect themselves as much as all other nations.

In summary, I don't see anything which gives nations the power to specify particular nations. They can specify areas within themselves, or specify areas globally, but cannot point out specific nations.

Finally, I don't recognise the legitimacy of an off-site list and do not recognise it's effects on my state.

I'm not saying I don't oppose a repeal, but I oppose the reasoning behind efforts thus far.

We supported the proposal advanced by the honorable representative of Cluichstan in the past and would do so again. As has been adequately demonstrated, the World Heritage List is a dangerous tool for those wishing to harm other nations' economies.

Patrick T. Olembe
Minister for Foreign Affairs

*snip*

I'm not saying I don't oppose a repeal, but I oppose the reasoning behind efforts thus far.

Bremworth pass, site of Hirota's uranium mines, has been added to the World Heritage List (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). Now, two questions for my Hirotan friend:

1. Care to change your position on this?

2. Wanna buy some uranium from Cluichstan?

Like I said, Hirota does not recognise the legitimacy of an off-site list as binding in international law and do not recognise it's effects on my state. :p

Moreover, we fail to recognise the rights of member states to affect other states on this matter. You can legislate on your own state, or you can legislate globally.

Like I said, Hirota does not recognise the legitimacy of an off-site list as binding in international law and do not recognise it's effects on my state. :p

Moreover, we fail to recognise the rights of member states to affect other states on this matter. You can legislate on your own state, or you can legislate globally.

OOC: That would be non-compliance. You must recognise the legitimacy of the WHL. There's a UN resolution on it after all. :p

IC: We're not legislating on anything by adding Bremworth pass to the World Heritage List. We're invoking and applying existing legislation that this austere body unfortunately passed.

I do recognise the legitimacy of the WHL - I don't recognise the illegal abuses of member states. Like I have said in greater detail earlier - we fail to recognise the rights of member states to affect other states on this matter. You can legislate on your own state, or you can legislate globally. I do not recognise anything within the WHL whihc allows other member states to specifiy other nations. They can specify regions within themselves, or globally (affecting all member states).

Secondly, I do not recognise the WHL in an off-site location.

EDIT: Yes, the resolutions is a crappy piece of work, but this whole idea that you can write a list anywhere and expect nations to comply is foolish. Off-site has no real impact on NS.

Moreover, I think it's being misinterpreted as I outlined earlier.

I do recognise the legitimacy of the WHL - I don't recognise the illegal abuses of member states. Like I have said in greater detail earlier - we fail to recognise the rights of member states to affect other states on this matter. You can legislate on your own state, or you can legislate globally. I do not recognise anything within the WHL whihc allows other member states to specifiy other nations. They can specify regions within themselves, or globally (affecting all member states).

Secondly, I do not recognise the WHL in an off-site location.

Read the resolution. There is nothing in the text of the resolution that defines who can add sites to the list nor how it is done. Thus, no one is prevented from adding any site in the world, be it in their own nation or another. These additions are not illegal abuses. They're abuses, sure, but they are not illegal. That is why this resolution needs to be scrapped.

Bremworth pass, site of Hirota's uranium mines, has been added to the World Heritage List (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). Now, two questions for my Hirotan friend:

1. Care to change your position on this?

2. Wanna buy some uranium from Cluichstan?

Ha! Could be worse. Gruenberg added my entire country onto it.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Read the resolution. There is nothing in the text of the resolution that defines who can add sites to the list nor how it is done. Thus, no one is prevented from adding any site in the world, be it in their own nation or another. These additions are not illegal abuses. They're abuses, sure, but they are not illegal. That is why this resolution needs to be scrapped.Nor does it provide any mechanism for removal, although that has happened on that site.

Moreover, it's an off-site list - it's unoffical.

Nor does it provide any mechanism for removal, although that has happened on that site.

Moreover, it's an off-site list - it's unoffical.


OOC: You're wanking.

OOC: You're wanking.OOC: And this list is godmodding. Who says this list is any more offical than the one I spawned from my imagination 5 seconds ago? The one that has been lost somewhere between embassies and has not been since?

Few problems with how I read this compared to repeals.

I don't see how a nation can list another nation legally. The resolution lists internally, and globally. Globally (to my mind anyway) involves something in common with the whole of the planet.

Nabbed from wikipedia:

OOC: While I understand that a great many put a great deal of faith in wikipedia, the very nature of it is inherently flawed. As it can be edited or added to by anyone at any time, the veracity of any information garnered from it ends up being temporally dependant on whether or not the last editor of the information which you seek was a complete dunderhead or not.

IC: Nabbed from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
GLOBAL:
Pronunciation: 'glO-b&l
Function: adjective
1 : SPHERICAL
2 : of, relating to, or involving the entire world : WORLDWIDE <global warfare> <a global system of communication>; also : of or relating to a celestial body (as the moon)
3 : of, relating to, or applying to a whole (as a mathematical function or a computer program) <a global search of a file>
- glob·al·ly /'glO-b&-lE/ adverb


Similar to what was in wikipedia, but more concise and accurate.

Unfortunately, while at first it may seem that I agree with your view about globality in general, if we take the phrasing of the original post in context, it is the sites of significance that can be internal or global. It could easily be argued that Hirota is the only Hirota in the world and, as such, must be protected for environmental significance reasons, just as Hirota's Bremworth Pass is, most likely, the ONLY Hirota's Bremworth Pass to be found in NS.

In summary, I don't see anything which gives nations the power to specify particular nations.

Any site globally. See above. Hirota is the only Hirota in the world.

They can specify areas within themselves, or specify areas globally, but cannot point out specific nations.

A nation is a specific area.

Finally, I don't recognise the legitimacy of an off-site list and do not recognise it's effects on my state.

OOC: Will you be taking your ball and going home, then? You don't like the rules of the game? Then don't play at all.

I'm not saying I don't oppose a repeal, but I oppose the reasoning behind efforts thus far.

That's like saying you think the man should hang but not because he killed people. If he ends up dead, what difference does it make?

OOC: And this list is godmodding. Who says this list is any more offical than the one I spawned from my imagination 5 seconds ago? The one that has been lost somewhere between embassies and has not been since?

OOC:
The difference is that the WHL that is in existence was created by a resolution passed by the NSUN into legislation. It is added to by member nations following the strictures put in place by said resolution and, as compliance is automatic, if you do not wish to abide by the decisions made by the UN, either help to rectify them (AKA help repeal this law), or take your ball and go home.

*peeks over books*
Why can't it be on the nsun forum instead of an offsite one?

*peeks over books*
Why can't it be on the nsun forum instead of an offsite one?

OOC: That's a good question, so here it is _

The List

DunkelSchloss, Valitz, Mikitivity
Wache am Durnspass, Valitz, Mikitivity
Freedonia peak, Freedonia
Commonalitarianism Fisheries, Forested Isle of Beertopia
Totans palace, Freeburg, Freedonia
The entire nation of Sillytopia
Waldebenen District, Oldwillow Province, Ausserland
The cities of Port Sir Richard, Riccardoton, New Hailsham and the military bases at Dimmy, Plop, Squeelookle, Retut and Hurnunger in Cobdenia
The UN Building
Sir Cyril MacLehose-Strangways-Jones, KCRC, LOG, Senior Cobdenian delegate to the United Nations (he needs to quit smoking)
The entire nation of Cantr (in retaliation for its representative torching his UN offices upon his resignation)
The Palm™ Esterel in the Esterel Bay, in construction, to be completed in 2007, It will add 200 km of beach front to the city of Esterel
The planet of Mars
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich's outstanding record collection
The barren landscapes of Texan Hotrodders
The Wall of Darsomir
Kenny
The Ruins of the nation of Eranmane, including the nation of Irish Nations of Meame, which is built upon the ruins.
The palace of the High Sultan of Cluichstan, Cluichabad, Cluichstan
The Most Glorious Hack
Argyre Islands, Ecopoeia
Cluichstani Private Entertainment Services Ltd.
Bob Flibble's "genetic jackhammer"
All trees and bunnies
The Anatomically correct statue of Queen Komoniwannalaya in The Palentine
The automobile manufacturing facilities in every nation whose delegates voted against Auto Free Trade Agreement
The Palm™ Esterel, Love and esterel, to be completed in 2007
Kapshur, Love and esterel
The University of Rêvane, Ariddia
The Pacific Botanical Gardens, Haven, Ariddia
The Wymgani Cultural Centre, Haven, Ariddia
Most of the forests which cover the greater part of Ariddia
The entirety of any regional delegate who approved Murder and Manslaughter Laws
The entire territory and national waters of any regional delegate nation which approved Auto Free Trade Agreement
Hydros Province Republic of Compadria.
Bremworth pass, Hirota
The entire Holy Wenaist Sultanate of Gruenberg
All fields acceptable for the playing of soccer in Qazox
All fields acceptable for the playing of soccer in The Islands of Qutar

*eyes list*
Maybe what's needed is an independent comittee who are qualified to assess what a 'heritage site' is, as opposed to the punsihment it is being abused as.:rolleyes:

*eyes list*
Maybe what's needed is an independent comittee who are qualified to assess what a 'heritage site' is, as opposed to the punsihment it is being abused as.:rolleyes:

No, what's needed is a repeal of what is clearly a shite resolution.

That too. The above observation was based simply on the list.

Look at that (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php?title=World_Heritage_List&diff=171610&oldid=171587). The list was edited and something was removed - isn't that illegal if we assume the NS wiki is offical?

So, the tool used thus far to illustrate the issue has been inherently flawed because people could just edit the list.

So, consider The missing line back in the WHL:

"Absolutely everything, everywhere, that ever was, ever is, or ever will be in existence within the United Nations."

<runs to check economy>

Now, shall we see if there is economic collapse throughout the UN?:p

OOC: Will you be taking your ball and going home, then? You don't like the rules of the game? Then don't play at all.Heh, I'd be upset if it was in the rules of the game. But it jolly well ain't in the rules, so it is hardly my problem. I don't see anything that says that the NS wiki is offical and binding upon member states.

If you need any help understanding what is and what is not in the rules, then I'm sure someone else can assist you understand. <deliberately patronising voice>One day you'll be a good widdle rules lawyer. </deliberately patronising voice>

Yes, I am being a cranky old git. We all have our moments. It not personal, and I'm certainly not trying to be totally offensive out of pure spite.

All the more reason that the WHL needs to get repealed. It can be too easily abused, in a number of different ways, apparently.

OOC:
Incidentally, this last bit of an exchange about whether the off site list is valid, legal, or whatever else strikes me as a bit redundant and useless.

If you do not wish to RP that the list exists at all, fire the IGNORE cannons and be done with it.

If you do not accept its existence in the goobergunch-wiki-verse, then you could still make the effort to accept it as an RP tool that many enjoy.

If nothing else, accept that each of the sites that are listed, or have been mentioned, for the WHL are unique on a global scale. Resultingly, one could easily add all nations named Kivisto to the WHL and it would still only apply to the single nation named Kivisto. Simply because they don't bother with the additional qualifying of "every X in the world" shouldn't render it any less valid.

IC:
So we're all on the list now?

Good thing we've been attempting to improve stuff in Kivisto recently. We might be able to maintain the status quo - for the time being, at any rate.

All the more reason that the WHL needs to get repealed. It can be too easily abused, in a number of different ways, apparently.Quite right. It's incredibly stupid that someone thought taking off something which illustrated the point far better than anything else thus far was a good move.
If nothing else, accept that each of the sites that are listed, or have been mentioned, for the WHL are unique on a global scale.Perhaps, but it is a moot point now everything is listed.:p

<deliberately patronising voice>One day you'll be a good widdle rules lawyer. </deliberately patronising voice>

Yes, I am being a cranky old git. We all have our moments. It not personal, and I'm certainly not trying to be totally offensive out of pure spite.

We'll make this real simple for you so that you can understand it inside your empty little vacuous skull....

Some of us here actually try to ROLEPLAY. Not only that, but we actually take it to the point that some really cool players that have the time and skill required have set up these extra little bits that we can use to improve upon the depth of the game. Since we don't want to burden the Mods with the extra work required to actually man a commitee and preside over the value of each submitted site for the WHL, it has been set up in such a way that any NSUN nation can add any site, within the strictures of the resolution, to the list. It is a roleplaying tool. Simply because it isn't sanctioned by the official rules doesn't make any less valuable to those of us that actually are here to play.

You don't want to take part in the actual roleplaying experience, I get that. How about backing out of the thread, turning around, and letting the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

You want to lawyer the rules. Fine. Hirota's property was added to the WHL on the UN forum boards earlier in this thread by the honourable delegate from Cluichstani UN Mission. It has been witnessed by other UN member nation delegates, including myself. It can rationally be assumed that the good little UN gnomes have added it to the WHL (as that is under their purview to do). It can further be assumed that all of Hirota's Bremworth Passes have been added on a global scale. If there is more than one, then they have all been added. Deal with your trauma, move on with you life. Or better yet, stop being a prick and accept the player created RP tools instead of trying to hide behind loopholes that exist in your imagination alone.

Yes, you are being a cranky old git. No, we're not taking it personally, we're simply frustrated by your pig-headedness and unwillingness to take part in a game that you choose to play. As for spite.....I honestly don't care about your motivations.
/tirade

Perhaps, but it is a moot point now everything is listed.:p

From here on out, I refuse to accept any advice on what is relevant, moot, valid, invalid, real, imagined, discriminatory, or otherwise (or really any information at all) from one who refuses to accept a roleplaying tool as exactly that. A tool to be used for roleplaying by roleplayers. The NSUN does not currently allow for the mechanics of the list to occur. Your refusal to accept someone else's efforts to compensate for that shows you for nothing more than the mechanic bully. Take your ball and go home. Let the rest of us enjoy our experience.

*eyes list*
Maybe what's needed is an independent comittee who are qualified to assess what a 'heritage site' is, as opposed to the punsihment it is being abused as.:rolleyes:


The good people of the Palentine, will consider it one of the gravest insults imaginable, for somebody not to consider, the anatomically correct statue of our nation's founder, the brave, beautiful, and buxom Warrior Queen Komoniwannalaya (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Komoniwannalaya), as a heritage site.:D
Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

The good people of the Palentine, will consider it one of the gravest insults imaginable, for somebody not to consider, the anatomically correct statue of our nation's founder, the brave, beautiful, and buxom Warrior Queen Komoniwannalaya (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Komoniwannalaya), as a heritage site.Yeah, we're cool with that.

Please note that NSwiki is an unofficial resource, and is not endorsed by either Jennifer Government: NationStates or Jolt Online Gaming.
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Kivisto, Hirota, both of you take a chill pill.

*eyes list*
Maybe what's needed is an independent comittee who are qualified to assess what a 'heritage site' is, as opposed to the punsihment it is being abused as.
That is impossible, that would require an amendment to the resolution which is not allowed. If you wanted to implement something like that you'd have to repeal it and put the new resolution up for vote.

And although the NSwiki is unofficial and not endorsed by Nationstates or Jolt, this resolution does still create the list and thus member nations are required to follow it. Since we now are apparently all on the list now. No further development can occur in any nation in the UN. All the more reason to get this resolution off the books as quickly as possible.

Cluichstan, are there any plans for your repeal to be put on the books in the near future? If there are I would be more than happy to step aside with mine and allow you to proceed. As I'm sure you can tell from my repeal I am not the most proficient at drafting resolutions.

I've got another proposal (http://s11.invisionfree.com/NatSovOrg/index.php?showtopic=264) I'm going to submit first.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Kivisto, Hirota, both of you take a chill pill.

Pill taken. Sorry. I'll cool off.

That is impossible, that would require an amendment to the resolution which is not allowed. If you wanted to implement something like that you'd have to repeal it and put the new resolution up for vote.
*tosses some eggs for United Planets to suck on*

*tosses some eggs for United Planets to suck on*
*nods head to representative from Randomea as I fry up my tasty omelet made from those eggs*

Look at that (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php?title=World_Heritage_List&diff=171610&oldid=171587). The list was edited and something was removed - isn't that illegal if we assume the NS wiki is offical?

Good point, There doesn't seem to be any legal way of removing sites from the list, no matter how wrong some people might consider their inclusion on it to be... Isn't that another very good reason for repealing the resolution?

I don't see anything that says that the NS wiki is offical and binding upon member states.

OOC: There's nothing to say that that list is the legal one, but (despite the fact that NSwiki is defined as an an unofficial resource) there's nothing to say that it isn't either so that in the absence of any officially-recognised list it could be seen as being as legal as any other list that anybody else might produce: The real point of the list that people have been building on NSwiki wasn't to wage economic warfare, it was to show the potential for the resolution's mis-use given that under the resolution's wording whatever official list exists IC could be mis-used in just the same way...

Good point, There doesn't seem to be any legal way of removing sites from the list, no matter how wrong some people might consider their inclusion on it to be... Isn't that another very good reason for repealing the resolution?



One of several, yes. ;)

Good point, There doesn't seem to be any legal way of removing sites from the list, no matter how wrong some people might consider their inclusion on it to be... Isn't that another very good reason for repealing the resolution?

In reading the WHL resolution I do not see a mechanism for either adding to or removing from the list, and so I do not see that there can be anything illegal about removing an item.

I understand that the WHL resolution is poorly written and has been abused, but Reidalia will not support the repeal fo the WHL until such time as a viable replacement is in the final stages of being drafted. In the meantime it seems to me that the very lack of control that allow anyone to add anything to the list also allows anyone to remove anything from the list. In the end this means that only those items that are unobjectionable will remain on the list, and I hardly see how this state of affairs can cause national sovereignty concerns.

Regards,
vonKreedon, Reidalian Syndic Chair

In reading the WHL resolution I do not see a mechanism for either adding to or removing from the list, and so I do not see that there can be anything illegal about removing an item.

I understand that the WHL resolution is poorly written and has been abused, but Reidalia will not support the repeal fo the WHL until such time as a viable replacement is in the final stages of being drafted. In the meantime it seems to me that the very lack of control that allow anyone to add anything to the list also allows anyone to remove anything from the list. In the end this means that only those items that are unobjectionable will remain on the list, and I hardly see how this state of affairs can cause national sovereignty concerns.

Regards,
vonKreedon, Reidalian Syndic Chair

Three words: Fuck a replacement.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

In reading the WHL resolution I do not see a mechanism for either adding to or removing from the list, and so I do not see that there can be anything illegal about removing an item.

I understand that the WHL resolution is poorly written and has been abused, but Reidalia will not support the repeal fo the WHL until such time as a viable replacement is in the final stages of being drafted. In the meantime it seems to me that the very lack of control that allow anyone to add anything to the list also allows anyone to remove anything from the list. In the end this means that only those items that are unobjectionable will remain on the list, and I hardly see how this state of affairs can cause national sovereignty concerns.

Regards,
vonKreedon, Reidalian Syndic Chair
I have no intention of ever drafting a replacement for this, and I think that many people would agree. If you wanted one you'd have to draft it yourself.

As for removing things from the list. There is nothing in the resolution that allows anything to be legally removed form the list. So while people can remove things from the NSwiki list. They can not do so on the "real/official" list, wherever that may be, but they can still add to it indiscriminately.

Can the representative from the United Planets point me to this "real/official" list from which nothing can be removed? To my admitedly limited knowledge their is no extant list, official or otherwise, from which it is not as easy to remove items as it is to add. And my reading of the WHL resolution says nothing about where the list resides or how one adds to or removes items from the list. The closest it comes to saying anything regarding the process for populating the list is that anyone can add items.

Regards,
vK

The list is not available for just anyone, that is why the wiki version exists, the real list is stored deep in the UN offices where only the gnomes have access to it. They can put locations on the list, but will not remove anyone because the resolution does not allow it.

OOC: Since the NSwiki is unofficial it can't be the real list, but the resolution created the list and therefore it must exist somewhere, if only from an in game perspective.

The list is not available for just anyone, that is why the wiki version exists, the real list is stored deep in the UN offices where only the gnomes have access to it. They can put locations on the list, but will not remove anyone because the resolution does not allow it.

OOC: Since the NSwiki is unofficial it can't be the real list, but the resolution created the list and therefore it must exist somewhere, if only from an in game perspective.

OOC: I would like to respond to your OOC comment as I do think that it speaks to the issue, and so I will./OOC

It seems to me that the NSWiki list is the official list for two reasons:

The WHL resolution makes no provisions for how or who will maintain the WHL other than to stipulate that anyone can add to the WHL. As the NSWiki allows anyone to add items it fits the only criteria expressed in the WHL resolution.
For the WHL to exist it must exist. For it to be added to it must be accessible. The only list I am aware of that meets these conditions is the NSWiki WHL, therefore it is the WHL until shown otherwise.

OOC: I would like to respond to your OOC comment as I do think that it speaks to the issue, and so I will./OOC

It seems to me that the NSWiki list is the official list for two reasons:

The WHL resolution makes no provisions for how or who will maintain the WHL other than to stipulate that anyone can add to the WHL. As the NSWiki allows anyone to add items it fits the only criteria expressed in the WHL resolution.
For the WHL to exist it must exist. For it to be added to it must be accessible. The only list I am aware of that meets these conditions is the NSWiki WHL, therefore it is the WHL until shown otherwise.

Okay, yes. I grant you that point. The resolution does not state who will maintain the list or where it will be stored. And yes, as far as I know the NSwiki list is the only list available that I am aware of.

Now, however, I am beginning to become confused. Are you still fighting against the repeal? Because it seems that in your fight to disprove me in my quest to remove the list, you are pointing out additional reasons as to why it is weak that adds to the argument to repeal it.