NationStates Jolt Archive

A proposal from...

UN DEFCON (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL291/1756382/3421442/131749899.jpg (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON)
We care more about your nation's security than you do.

=====

Just submitted this proposal (http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=heritage) to repeal Resolution #37, "World Heritage List." As you can see from the argument in the proposal, this resolution contains an extremely dangerous loophole that we MUST eliminate. The potential for abuse is FAR too great.

Repeal "World Heritage List" (http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=heritage)
A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #37
Proposed by: Cluichstani UN Mission

Description: UN Resolution #37: World Heritage List (Category: Environmental; Industry Affected: Woodchipping) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: The United Nations,

APPRECIATING the desire to protect the global environment and sites of environmental significance;

NOTING that Resolution #37, "World Heritage List," does not define "environmental significance";

LAMENTING that the resolution permits nations to assign "environmental significance" to sites on the sovereign territory of other nations, thereby preventing their use for economically necessary activities, such as mining, logging, and even farming;

AFFIRMING that nations must retain the right to designate sites within their own territory as protected areas;

CONCERNED, however, that the lack of a definition of "environmental significance" and the ability to so label sites in nations outside one's own leaves this resolution and the World Heritage List that it created open to the possibility of dangerous abuses;

DEEPLY CONCERNED that such a possibility could become a reality and that the resolution and the World Heritage List that it created could be used as a tool of economic warfare or even a precursor to an actual military confrontation,

REPEALS Resolution #37, "World Heritage List."

EDIT: I just added a link to the proposal on the NS site, so that people can approve it. :cool:

Ha! We of Sillytopia do not believe the lying bluster of this repeal. As if you could actually claim our entire country as a World Heritage Site. Hahahaha.:rolleyes:

Ha! We of Sillytopia do not believe the lying bluster of this repeal. As if you could actually claim our entire country as a World Heritage Site. Hahahaha.:rolleyes:

Point to me where the limitation is that stops Cluich from labeling all of Sillytopia as a World Heritage Site:

Resolution #37: World Heritage List
Category: Environmental
Industry Affected: Woodchipping

Recognising that all nations share a common global environment;

Recognising that sites of pristine environmental significance should be protected for all people; and

Recognising that a lack of environmental protection protocols currently exists:

It is proposed that a World Heritage List be established. All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally. Listed sites would be protected from logging, mining and other environmentally-damaging activities.

Implemented: Sat Nov 15 2003

This was actually pointed out when it came to vote. It failed to make a difference to the voting outcome. I’ll quote the resolution writers answers to those concerns….

Initially, when writing the proposal I was aware of the most important factor in getting initial approval for a motion. Regional delegates have precious little time to devote to analysing motions, thus mine had to be concise with a clear intention to stand a chance of receiving initial approval. For this reason alone I did not elaborate on selection criteria, appeals processes or bodies resposible for site evaluation.

Certainly, I modelled the proposal on UNESCOs WHC criteria for site identification and selection. To this end, nations can identify internal sites and volunteer these for listing. This measure does not seem to draw critisism within this forum. The element that does is the inclusion of the term 'globally'. I included this, hesitantly, to simulate the role that NGOs play in the selection process for many sites globally. As most of you are probably aware, it is VERY rare for real nations to volunteer sites for listing, with the exception of those seeking tourism revenue such an exercise guarantees. More often, global organisations such as Greenpeace, the Wilderness Society and the like put forward the submission and pressure governments to list sites. Developing nations often submit to such pressure to avoid the negative publicity that such global organisations can generate.

Within the limitations of a game such as nationstates, I believe the motion as outlined simulates this real world process. Stating that sites of 'environmental significance' are to be protected is intended to exclude such things as mine sites, military bases, farm land and such - these areas are already ecologically degraded and as such would not be eligible for listing. The interpretation would extend only to sites in a pristine state.

Lastly, to touch on another reality of the game, it should be noted that if the proposal does pass it will have little effect on the actual mechanics of the virtual nations. Realistically, passing the resolution would have an effect comparable to a real nation listing a national park or wilderness, simulating the loss of woodchipping resources that such action would cause. Allowing other nations to propose sites simply simulates the role of NGOs, thus enhancing the roleplay - not allowing any nation to list military basses and thus "reduce military capability" or any other element of national sovereignty. Besides, possessing such a capability is no different to simulating the role of NGOs, in that both are imaginary, non-existant elements of nationstates. Sovereinty cannot be undermined by anyone except those who know your password, thus you should not fear it.

But we found this resolution rather useful. We declared all of Cobdenia's city's, military bases and other strategic sites as heritage sites, so that our enemies couldn't bomb them (after all, bombing is environmentally damaging)...

We thank the distinguished representative of Hirota for providing the textfrom the debate on Resolution #37. It has allowed us to understand the rationale behind the resolution's unfortunate provisions. Perhaps quoting the text of Resolution #37 would also be of use:

Recognising that all nations share a common global environment; Recognising that sites of pristine environmental significance should be protected for all people; and Recognising that a lack of environmental protection protocols currently exists:

It is proposed that a World Heritage List be established.

All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally. Listed sites would be protected from logging, mining and other environmentally-damaging activities.

While the author believed that his resolution "simulated" the process used to create the UNESCO World Heritage List in the mythical world of RL, it did no such thing. In that mythical world, the sites on the list are designated by an international organization -- the UNESCO World Heritage Committee -- after evaluation by two other international organizations. The resolution allows unilateral designation by a single UN member country of areas both within and outside its borders.

Further, while the author intended that designation could be applied only to "sites in a pristine state", the resolution contains no such binding limitation. In fact, it fails even to define "environmental significance".

We believe that the potential for dangerous abuse pointed out in the repeal proposal are very real. We support repeal of the well-intentioned but dangerously flawed NSUN Resolution #37.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador to the United Nations

But we found this resolution rather useful. We declared all of Cobdenia's city's, military bases and other strategic sites as heritage sites, so that our enemies couldn't bomb them (after all, bombing is environmentally damaging)...Hey! That was my idea (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON/index.php?showtopic=63&view=findpost&p=1469512)!!

Ha! We of Sillytopia do not believe the lying bluster of this repeal. As if you could actually claim our entire country as a World Heritage Site. Hahahaha.:rolleyes:

With all due respect, the people Cluichstan just have. Take a look at the World Heritage List (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). You may now kiss your economy goodbye.

We have also added, just for our own amusement, Waldebenen District, Oldwillow Province, Ausserland.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

We too would like to thank the Hirotan ambassador for showing us this information. However, we feel that this does little to deter the repeal, but instead merely justifies its initial passing. Since that time, the concepts of sovereignty, loopholes, the distinction between letter and spirit of the law, and the entire NSUN realm have evolved to a rather extraordinary complexity. While the intentions of the author are admirable, the resolution cannot be permitted to remain on the UN books in its current form.

We too would like to thank the Hirotan ambassador for showing us this information. However, we feel that this does little to deter the repeal, but instead merely justifies its initial passing. Since that time, the concepts of sovereignty, loopholes, the distinction between letter and spirit of the law, and the entire NSUN realm have evolved to a rather extraordinary complexity. While the intentions of the author are admirable, the resolution cannot be permitted to remain on the UN books in its current form.

We would like to thank the representative from Forgottenlands for agreeing with our attempt to repeal this resolution. We will not have to add any locations in that nation to the World Heritage List.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

We too would like to thank the Hirotan ambassador for showing us this information. However, we feel that this does little to deter the repeal, but instead merely justifies its initial passing. Since that time, the concepts of sovereignty, loopholes, the distinction between letter and spirit of the law, and the entire NSUN realm have evolved to a rather extraordinary complexity. While the intentions of the author are admirable, the resolution cannot be permitted to remain on the UN books in its current form.Actually (apart from being more organised in the case of NatSov, resolution writing and one or two other areas), I disagree that we have got much further in complexity. I'm seeing quite a parallel between discussions back in 03, and discussions nowadays.

I think there are more people understanding more issues (back in 03 there seems to be less people understanding some of the concepts - at least less people posting and demonstrating an understanding - it may be suprising, but we have a lot less idiots on nowadays), which is the biggest difference.

Anyway, I'm going to vote for a repeal. It might be nice to see the Green Think Tank work on a replacement.

Cluich, sort your defcon image out. Get rid of the = sign, replace with a ]

With all due respect, the people Cluichstan just have. Take a look at the World Heritage List (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). You may now kiss your economy goodbye.

We have also added, just for our own amusement, Waldebenen District, Oldwillow Province, Ausserland.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

[The Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ausserland stalks to the podium. He pulls over the footstool courteously provided so that dwarven members of the Assembly can see over the lectern and climbs on it.]

My distinguished colleagues.... I rise today to express the anger and outrage of the people and government of Ausserland over the scurrilous and dastardly action of the Sultanate of Cluichstan. Their unilateral designation of the Waldebenen District in our Oldwillow Province as a site listed on the World Heritage List is nothing more than a blatant attempt to wage economic warfare on a competitor nation! It will require us to completely shut down operation of the tin mines in the District and do untold damage to our nation's economy.

Actually, my fellow representatives, we are not angry or outraged at all. The Sultanate made the designation with the full agreement and concurrence of the Principality of Ausserland. We wanted to provide a real-time, "live" demonstration of the sort of thing that NSUN Resolution #37 can be used to do. It allows a nation to unilaterally, without consultation or justification, impose crippling restrictions on the use of another nation's sovereign territory. We volunteered Waldebenen District for this demonstration because we believe "it can't happen here" is too often a reason for members of this Assembly to fail to support worthwhile legislation. It can happen here, and it can happen to your nation.

We urge our colleagues to support the repeal of this dangerous resolution.

[The elderly dwarf climbs down off the footstool and shoves it back under the table.]

We would like to thank our Ausserlander friends for allowing us to use a district in their wonderful country as an example of the pernicious possibilities for abuse that the resolution creates, as well as for their representative's strong support of the proposed repeal.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

Hey! That was my idea (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON/index.php?showtopic=63&view=findpost&p=1469512)!!

Missed that post!

Great minds think alike, as they say!

While the author believed that his resolution "simulated" the process used to create the UNESCO World Heritage List in the mythical world of RL, it did no such thing. In that mythical world, the sites on the list are designated by an international organization -- the UNESCO World Heritage Committee -- after evaluation by two other international organizations. The resolution allows unilateral designation by a single UN member country of areas both within and outside its borders.

So you object to the original solution which thankfully stopped the continued bloating of an already overextended UN bureaucracy? :confused:

Just kidding. Some very good arguments here as to why the original proposal is more dangerous than useful.

So you object to the original solution which thankfully stopped the continued bloating of an already overextended UN bureaucracy? :confused:

Just kidding. Some very good arguments here as to why the original proposal is more dangerous than useful.

You just came dangerously close to getting your nation listed as well, but then I read the last bit. ;)

Oh, and by the way, the UN building has also been added to the list.

You just came dangerously close to getting your nation listed as well, but then I read the last bit. ;)

Oh, and by the way, the UN building has also been added to the list.

Hmm.....Good thing Angel Fire troops are only contract workers, not actual members.....

Sir Cyril takes the stand:

"Gentleman, Sir Brian.."

"What what what?"

"..shut up. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, Sir Brian has put ME on the list. This means I can no longer go to the strangers bar, smoke, or eat at MacDonalds. For the love of God, repeal this before I go mad!"

Hmm.....Good thing Angel Fire troops are only contract workers, not actual members.....

That's irrelevant really. Should they cause any damage to this building during the course of their current operations on the basement levels, they will now be in violation of international law.

IMPORTANT NOTICE!

I urge everyone to take a look at the World Heritage List (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List) to see the abuses that have taken place just in the past 24 hours alone.

That's irrelevant really. Should they cause any damage to this building during the course of their current operations on the basement levels, they will now be in violation of international law.

Have you looked at Angel Fire? It has never been a member and it barely recognizes Aberdeen law. UN law is irrelevant to them.

Have you looked at Angel Fire? It has never been a member and it barely recognizes Aberdeen law. UN law is irrelevant to them.

Then what damn fool contracted a non-UN group to handle business in a UN facility?!? :eek:

Then what damn fool contracted a non-UN group to handle business in a UN facility?!? :eek:

*whistles innocently*

I'm going to have to have a serious talk with UN Building Management about this...

I'm going to have to have a serious talk with UN Building Management about this...

I wouldn't bother

They contract their legal work out to NSUN lawyers (another non-member) and hire UN Gnomes to run their compliance ministry (ditto)

I wouldn't bother

They contract their legal work out to NSUN lawyers (another non-member) and hire UN Gnomes to run their compliance ministry (ditto)

No wonder this place is a mess. :p

Then what damn fool contracted a non-UN group to handle business in a UN facility?!? :eek:
That would be the non-UN group that runs the facility.

Patrick O'Neil
Head of the Maintence of Order Department
UN Building Management

They contract their legal work out to NSUN lawyers (another non-member) and hire UN Gnomes to run their compliance ministry (ditto)
Actually the compliance ministry predates us, and as for our outsourcing the Legal department to the NSUN Lawyers, that was done as a cost cutting measure. You guys obviously have no idea just how much is takes to keep this place running.

William Smithers
Senior VP, UN Building Management

Hmmmm....I'm probably going to ask my delegate to support this.

What I am concerned about however is how this repeal might be failing to consider other resolutions.

Article 3 § Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from unrequested intervention in the internal or external economic, political, religious, and social affairs of any other NationState, subject to the immunities recognized by international law. What I am wondering is if the roleplay on here which is excellently demonstrating the failures of "world heritage" is actually illegal under "Rights and Duties." The net effect of the two may be to prevent a government declaring a world heritage site outside of their borders.

I’ll still support this, but I’m unconvinced about the premise.

I would say that the WHL creates one of those "immunities recognized by international law."

That's what I thought you'd say :)

I dunno, I'm not certain. I thought it was important enough to mention.

Is there any plan to do a replacement where by nations can only nominate within their own borders? You could almost just add three words to the original and it would do the job.

We are proud to be listed as a "World Heritage Site". We have designated the Commonalitarianism's fisheries as a World Heritage Sites as well as The Forested Isle of Beertopia a giant ecological theme park.

That's what I thought you'd say :)

I dunno, I'm not certain. I thought it was important enough to mention.

Is there any plan to do a replacement where by nations can only nominate within their own borders? You could almost just add three words to the original and it would do the job.

I've got no problem with that, but I'm not going to draft it. Environmental legislation, in general, grates my scrotum.

We are proud to be listed as a "World Heritage Site". This has allowed us to maintain strict control of fishing in our waters as well as logging and mining. We have world heritage fish, world heritage iron, and world heritage trees. Our older trees even have plaques which says "This Was Made Possible by the World Heritage Site." We have also designated several sunken battleships and war sites as "World Heritage Sites." This allows us to claim small portions of iron and steel for recycling while leaving the sites intact and keeping out foreign recyclers.

Um...no, you haven't. However, you can do so here (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List).

I've got no problem with that, but I'm not going to draft it. Environmental legislation, in general, grates my scrotum.

Time to use the GTT hotline methinks.

http://www.pensive.org/jeff/mrfone/collect/Green500.gif

You know, it really too bad that this resolution doesn't have some sort of penalty for nations who damage listed Worlld Heritage sites especailly as someone tried to burn down the UN building before they resigned. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10613711#post10613711)

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

You know, it really too bad that this resolution doesn't have some sort of penalty for nations who damage listed Worlld Heritage sites especailly as someone tried to burn down the UN building before they resigned. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10613711#post10613711)

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Yes, unfortunately, we can't penalise, sanction, invade, or anything like that -- at least, not as the UN. As individual nations, however... ;)

Actually, I found a way to penalise the representative from Cantr for burning his UN offices: click here (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). :cool:

I was wondering where I'd heard that name before. That was an argument to make your head spin

"Just use common sense"

.......

"We have 5 farmers managing all the farms in the nation"

WTF?

Well, now those farmers are out of work. None of the land in Cantr can be cultivated now.

Hey, who added my record collection to the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List)?!?

Well, we needed to save the environment from that pile o' crap! :D

Looks like Cob

Well, we needed to save the environment from that pile o' crap! :D

Looks like Cob

OOC: I tried checking, but NSwiki's being its usual bitchy self.

OOC: I tried checking, but NSwiki's being its usual bitchy self.

It likes me, it seems.

You see Cluich, you have to treat your sites with respect. They like it when you utter sweet things at them and they are much more willing to do everything you want to do.

OOC: The Environment of this room just wouldn't be the same without my cd collection :cool:

You know, it really too bad that this resolution doesn't have some sort of penalty for nations who damage listed Worlld Heritage sites especailly as someone tried to burn down the UN building before they resigned. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10613711#post10613711)

He just tried to gut his office. You can't burn the building down, it's made of solid asbestos. Only the wooden furnature, wall paper etc can be burned. (Don't worry, your offices are perfectly safe and as long as the euthanisia law remains in force you can be guarenteed that you will not experience any long term suffering from membership in the UN.)

OOC: The Environment of this room just wouldn't be the same without my cd collection :cool:

Yeah, the plants would be alive, not cowering in fear :D

Yeah, the plants would be alive, not cowering in fear :D
"If we moved in next door to you, your lawn would die."
-Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

:D

"If we moved in next door to you, your lawn would die."
-Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

:D

"GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN!"

-Carl, from Aqua Teen Hunger Force

Hey, who added my record collection to the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List)?!?


*whistle*

Still needs to get almost 100 more approvals today, so it looks like this first attempt ain't gonna work. I think perhaps the language needs to be a little stronger in explicitly stating the danger the WHL presents. I'll tinker with it a bit and hope to resubmit it during the first week in April.

I'm going to be submitting this again in the next few days. Any suggestions for improvements?

Hack, if you wanted us to revere your 'lands' and keep them sacred, you could have just asked. We might not have done it, but we could have shared a good awkward chuckle at least.

To be completely honest, I fail to see that any of the arguments against the original resolution are powerful enough to justify repeal. The actions of a handful of irresponsible national ambassadors are regrettable but, sadly, inevitable. Ultimately, they are not damaging.

In short, this repeal is not deserving of our support.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

To be completely honest, I fail to see that any of the arguments against the original resolution are powerful enough to justify repeal. The actions of a handful of irresponsible national ambassadors are regrettable but, sadly, inevitable. Ultimately, they are not damaging.

In short, this repeal is not deserving of our support.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

Not deserving of your support? You might want to check the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List) again...

OOC: Is it not reasonable to assume that some sort of vetting process would be in place? I'm really not in the mood for a Wiki war, amusing though it might be.

OOC: Is it not reasonable to assume that some sort of vetting process would be in place? I'm really not in the mood for a Wiki war, amusing though it might be.

OOC: I don't assume anything. The resolution doesn't include a vetting process of any kind whatsoever -- and that's one of its biggest problems. Just illustrating that point with the list on NSwiki.

OOC: Sigh. Fair enough. I like the original concept, so perhaps a revised version with the necessary safeguards is worth considering.

Objection removed, repeal supported. Now can I have my islands back, please?

OOC: Sigh. Fair enough. I like the original concept, so perhaps a revised version with the necessary safeguards is worth considering.

Objection removed, repeal supported. Now can I have my islands back, please?

The people of Cluichstan are glad you have chosen to see the light, and I will personally see to it that your islands are removed from the World Heritage List so that your people may continue to use them as they see fit.

OOC: That would be fine. I just have the two problems with the current resolution: lack of a vetting procedure and the ability to restrict use of land in other countries. Nothing wrong with the concept if those two points of concern are addressed.

OOC: Thanks. That'll teach me not to skim-read!

OOC: Thanks. That'll teach me not to skim-read!

OOC: LOL I'm not one of those willy-nilly repeal guys, y'know. I have good reasons for going after this particular resolution. ;)

OOC: Yeah, I know. We're still listing Argyre, however. Ain't no one messing with our saki monkeys!

OOC: Yeah, I know. We're still listing Argyre, however. Ain't no one messing with our saki monkeys!

OOC: Ah, okay, wasn't sure who'd added that island, so I had stripped 'em all off the list. Sorry 'bout that.

OOC: Nay worries, tovarishch.

Hack, if you wanted us to revere your 'lands' and keep them sacred, you could have just asked. We might not have done it, but we could have shared a good awkward chuckle at least.:eek:

Wait... I'm not a UN member... how can I be added?

:eek:

Wait... I'm not a UN member... how can I be added?

The resolution states: "All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally." It doesn't say sites only in UN member nations.

The resolution states: "All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally." It doesn't say sites only in UN member nations.
That's how the UN Building got on the list.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7159/cpesl9af.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9936/cpeslfullname9pd.jpg

To the United Nations:

As chief executive officer of Cluichstani Private Entertainment Services Ltd. (CPESL), I must express my deepest outrage over the addition of our corporation to the World Heritage List (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). We wonder why CPESL would be added to a list of sites "environmental significance." Is there no vetting procedure for making additions to this list? I must assume not, for CPESL clearly does not belong on it. CPESL has no pristine landscape, endangered forests, majestic mountains, or any other places of environmental or ecological significance. We only have our many offices, located around the world, from which our approximately 250,000 employees conduct their business. As such, we demand that CPESL be removed from the World Heritage List immediately.

Sincerely,
Sheik Eralc bin Cluich, CEO
Cluichstani Private Entertainment Services Ltd.

The resolution states: "All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally." It doesn't say sites only in UN member nations.

You just aren't stopped from strip mining - or whatever. Companies that belong to our nations.....they would be stopped.

Dear Sheik Eralc bin Cluich:

While neither Tzorsland nor myself had any part in placing CPESL on the list, I have to argue that it needs to be placed there. Each and every CPESL agent is a "pristine" landscape as it were, with majestic mountains, beautiful valleys and yes indeed fantastic forests that should be maintained and enjoyed by this and future generations.

Today, while the blossoms still cling to the vine
I’ll taste your strawberries, I’ll drink your sweet wine
A million tomorrows shall all pass away
'ere I forget all the joy that is mine, today

I’ll be a dandy, and I’ll be a rover
You’ll know who I am by the songs that I sing
I’ll feast at your table, I’ll sleep in your clover
Who cares what the morrow shall bring

CPESL is not only a world heritage, it's one of the wonders of the world! :p

Please don't repeal it, the revenge I wrought on nations not voting for my new proposal will not last long, then!

[Dr. Evil] I'm going to add the entire world to the World Heritage List unless you pay us...
ONE BILLLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Muahahahahahahaha! [/Dr. Evil]

[Dr. Evil] I'm going to add the entire world to the World Heritage List unless you pay us...
ONE BILLLION DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Muahahahahahahaha! [/Dr. Evil]

Um.....

What would happen if we paid him 1 billion Yen?

The resolution states: "All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally." It doesn't say sites only in UN member nations.Oh dear, this raises an interesting situation.

I can't add, but I can be added.
I don't have to honor the listing, but members do.

Fun fun fun. I'm finally safe from the fluffies! I'm endangered! All 6.5 billions citizens!

Dear Sheik Eralc bin Cluich:

While neither Tzorsland nor myself had any part in placing CPESL on the list, I have to argue that it needs to be placed there. Each and every CPESL agent is a "pristine" landscape as it were, with majestic mountains, beautiful valleys and yes indeed fantastic forests that should be maintained and enjoyed by this and future generations.

CPESL is not only a world heritage, it's one of the wonders of the world! :p

As the UN member that added CPESL to the list, I agree with the Tzorlandian delegation. Sheik bin Cluich must recognize the importance of those landscapes. In adding CPESL to the list, I felt it was necessary to prevent those fertile landscapes from ever being plowed or feeling the bite of the piledriver.

As the UN member that added CPESL to the list, I agree with the Tzorlandian delegation. Sheik bin Cluich must recognize the importance of those landscapes. In adding CPESL to the list, I felt it was necessary to prevent those fertile landscapes from ever being plowed or feeling the bite of the piledriver.
As long as CPESL servicewomen can still feel the impact of my genetic jackhammer then I have no problem with their being added to the list.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The resolution states: "All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally." It doesn't say sites only in UN member nations.

So the resolution tries to affect non-UN nations, so it's illegal on those grounds anyway?

(posting as 'Godwinnia' because I'm having trouble logging on as 'St Edmund' today...)

So the resolution tries to affect non-UN nations, so it's illegal on those grounds anyway?

(posting as 'Godwinnia' because I'm having trouble logging on as 'St Edmund' today...)

I don't believe it tries to affect non-UN members. That would imply some sort of intent. I think it's just the unfortunate result of a very badly written resolution.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

So the resolution tries to affect non-UN nations, so it's illegal on those grounds anyway?

(posting as 'Godwinnia' because I'm having trouble logging on as 'St Edmund' today...)

Explicitly affecting non-UN nations is illegal, but implicitly affecting or indirect side-affect of non-UN nations is legal. Hell, you can invite non-UN members to join in a committee if you word it correctly (and don't explicitly say non-members)

As long as CPESL servicewomen can still feel the impact of my genetic jackhammer then I have no problem with their being added to the list.Ye gods, there's another mental picture I could have done without. :eek:

OOC: OK, let's just repeal the blighter before this gets really disturbing...

OOC: OK, let's just repeal the blighter before this gets really disturbing...

OOC: I think we're far beyond that point already. :eek:

Ye gods, there's another mental picture I could have done without. :eek:Worry no more (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List)!

OOC: You really frighten me sometimes, Hack. LOL

Added the "anatomically correct" statue of our nation's founder, the Warrior Queen Komoniwannalaya (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Komoniwannalaya).

Added the "anatomically correct" statue of our nation's founder, the Warrior Queen Komoniwannalaya (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Komoniwannalaya).

OOC: Your NSwiki entry there really needs a pic. ;)

Nice to see that the "trees and bunnies" are now protected. Now we just need to protect the ramparts.

OOC: Your NSwiki entry there really needs a pic. ;)

OOC: I'm looking for one that won't get me banned.:p I've narrowed it down.:D

I just mentioned it in the Earth Pact thread, but this is one time I think that crossing threads might be acceptable

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10684688&postcount=17

especially considering how JLP seems so gung-ho about how pristine it is there

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10677831&postcount=5

Mine was posted here, too, but it's easier for me to find it on the DEFCON forum than it is using Jolt's shitty search function.
[http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11055008&postcount=15]Looky here, I found it just fine. :D

Looky here, I found it just fine. :D


Yeah, yeah...I fail at teh interwebs. :p

What the hell? I just resubmitted it.

What the hell? I just resubmitted it.


....and there was much rejoicing.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/Funky_penguin.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/rabbits_001.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/party.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/dance.gif

OOC: Only four approvals so far (thanks, y'all!), but I think I'll start TGing tomorrow, now that I'm out of a job and have plenty of time on my hands. :p

OOC: Only 10 approvals so far. Looks like it's gonna hafta be TGs. *sigh*

Kivisto, you can rejoice once again! It's baaaaaaaack...

A proposal from...

UN DEFCON (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL291/1756382/3421442/131749899.jpg (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON)
We care more about your nation's security than you do.

=====

Just submitted the following proposed repeal of Resolution #37, "World Heritage List." (http://www.nationstates.net/08820/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=36) As you can see from the argument in the proposal, this resolution contains an extremely dangerous loophole that we MUST eliminate. The potential for abuse is FAR too great.




Repeal "World Heritage List"

The United Nations,

APPRECIATING the desire to protect the global environment and sites of environmental significance;

NOTING that Resolution #37, "World Heritage List," does not define "environmental significance";

LAMENTING that the resolution permits nations to assign "environmental significance" to sites on the sovereign territory of other nations, thereby preventing their use for economically necessary activities, such as mining, logging, and even farming;

AFFIRMING that nations must retain the right to designate sites within their own territory as protected areas;

CONCERNED, however, that the lack of a definition of "environmental significance" and the ability to so label sites in nations outside one's own leaves this resolution and the World Heritage List that it created open to the possibility of dangerous abuses;

DEEPLY CONCERNED that such a possibility could become a reality and that the resolution and the World Heritage List that it created could be used as a tool of economic warfare or even a precursor to an actual military confrontation,

REPEALS Resolution #37, "World Heritage List."

Did you actually submit it? Because your E-Z link is forwarding us to another repeal of the same resolution, from a deceased nation, no less.

Did you actually submit it? Because your E-Z link is forwarding us to another repeal of the same resolution, from a deceased nation, no less.
Yeah (http://www.nationstates.net/86596/page=UN_proposal/start=15), but as it's not the first submission, it doesn't get the namespace link.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/Funky_penguin.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/rabbits_001.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/party.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/dance.gifhttp://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/juhanikivisto/smilies/violent/Axe.gif

Hopefully this time it'll get a bit further.

ps-keep an eye on that bunny. Something about him is just not right. Creepy.

OOC: Seriously, could we ease it down on the smilies? They can be fun and all, and I know I'm more averse to them (except this guy :rolleyes: who rocks my world) than some, but it's getting kind of annoying.

The government of Kuraurisand wholeheartedly supports this repeal. Although it was amusing in it's day, it's only a matter of time before some idiot declares the whole world to be on the list, and our advancement as a civilization will shutdown almost overnight.

Now if only resolutions 9, 10, 14, 22 through 24, 39 and 49 could be scrapped and rewritten (where applicable), Kuraurisand could reconsider entry.

Regards,
Ambassador Arin mac Nihil
The Community of Kuraurisand
"In labor the body, law the mind, and care the heart."

Did you actually submit it? Because your E-Z link is forwarding us to another repeal of the same resolution, from a deceased nation, no less.

That's why I killed the E-Z link to the repeal for the time being in my most recent post of the draft here. I'll repost once the other attempt at a repeal of this shite resolution leaves the proposal list.

I submited the one the link was leading it to but this one is much better phrased than mine

I submited the one the link was leading it to but this one is much better phrased than mine

Thank you. I appreciate the compliment very much. :) If you truly feel that way, though, you could always send a GHR to get yours removed from the proposal list... ;)

Thank you. I appreciate the compliment very much. :) If you truly feel that way, though, you could always send a GHR to get yours removed from the proposal list... ;)

Ah ok how to do you do that lol im new to the whole UN thing

Ah ok how to do you do that lol im new to the whole UN thing

You can click here (http://www.nationstates.net/page=help).

I support this.

Mainly because when it's gone, we can start growing our damn food again.



Stupid MAWS Resolution....

I support this.

Mainly because when it's gone, we can start growing our damn food again.



Stupid MAWS Resolution....
You think that's bad, try having your genitals on there.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

P.S. I still want to know who put them on the list.

Ah ok how to do you do that lol im new to the whole UN thingAlready taken care of.

You think that's bad, try having your genitals on there.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

P.S. I still want to know who put them on the list.

It wasn't me, and frankly, I'm disappointed in myself for not thinking of it first.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

If you look on the wiki list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List), you see that it lists:

"The entire territory of any nation which opposes resolution #37"

And that's why the Federated States of Kedalfax employs a man to believe that it is a good proposal. He counts as a part of the nation, and since the whole nation does not oppose it, we aren't on the list. Interesting loophole, actually. We also offer a small tax refund to citizens who oppose the resolution. We use the tax forms as our poll of who opposes the resolution. Oddly enough, not many people seem to oppose it.

You think that's bad, try having your genitals on there.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

P.S. I still want to know who put them on the list.

Wow...

That really DOES suck...

Wow...

That really DOES suck...

No, sucking would be prohibited, I believe, now that they're on the WHL. :p

Er, does sucking cause environmental damage to it?

Just don't bite. Ouch.

Cluich keeps writing suitable proposals... I need to jump back onto my Repeal of PRA and my Chemical transportation code soon, to turn the tide...

Er, does sucking cause environmental damage to it?

Just don't bite. Ouch.

Most likely. I mean, if it's done enough. Uh......yeah.

The ever-sovereign Regent of the Armed Republic of Costa Bravo, Jonah Jebediah Rudabaugh, wholeheartedly and completely supports this resolution, due to aforementioned reasons. The Costa Bravan UN Representative will file his support within the hour.

Cluich keeps writing suitable proposals... I need to jump back onto my Repeal of PRA and my Chemical transportation code soon, to turn the tide...


You mean you plan to start drafting unsuitable proposals to turn the tide? :p

You mean you plan to start drafting unsuitable proposals to turn the tide? :p

No, I plan on making you agree with me, instead of the other way around! I've got the powa too!

I don't know if anyone noted it yet, but the UN World Heritage List does nothing to protect heritage. All it does is say that nations can allot some plots of land to protect as environmentally sensitive or significant, and even then, it doesn't mention how such an endeavour should be accomplished. It's one of the olders - yes - but this one is too poorly written and doesn't even mention heritage sites, which are historically significant, not environmentally significant.

That said, I nominally support this resolution for the reasons stated above.

If you look on the wiki list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List), you see that it lists:

"The entire territory of any nation which opposes resolution #37"

And that's why the Federated States of Kedalfax employs a man to believe that it is a good proposal. He counts as a part of the nation, and since the whole nation does not oppose it, we aren't on the list. Interesting loophole, actually. We also offer a small tax refund to citizens who oppose the resolution. We use the tax forms as our poll of who opposes the resolution. Oddly enough, not many people seem to oppose it.

The Speaker of Kedalfax has a very interesting solution to this problem, and the Empyrean Citadel of Lydania will be adopting this method of approaching UN Resolution #37 within the following day. The other Magisters and I are already applying the appropriate political pressure.

Rain Beechwood
Magister of the Empyrean Citadel of Lydania

I don't know if anyone noted it yet, but the UN World Heritage List does nothing to protect heritage. All it does is say that nations can allot some plots of land to protect as environmentally sensitive or significant, and even then, it doesn't mention how such an endeavour should be accomplished. It's one of the olders - yes - but this one is too poorly written and doesn't even mention heritage sites, which are historically significant, not environmentally significant.

That said, I nominally support this resolution for the reasons stated above.

We appreciate the support, nominal or otherwise. You have just avoided having your nation crippled by being added to the WHL.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

If you look on the wiki list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List), you see that it lists:

"The entire territory of any nation which opposes resolution #37"And of course the fact that: "Please note that NSwiki is an unofficial resource, and is not endorsed by either Jennifer Government: NationStates or Jolt Online Gaming" (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) and thus cannot be taken as offical or binding on member states, no matter how much others would try and persuade you otherwise.

And of course the fact that: "Please note that NSwiki is an unofficial resource, and is not endorsed by either Jennifer Government: NationStates or Jolt Online Gaming" (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) and thus cannot be taken as offical or binding on member states, no matter how much others would try and persuade you otherwise.


*sigh*
I beg of you not to start this line of rules-bully debate again. The wiki list is simply a player created tool to keep track of what the member nations have submitted to the World Heritage List. The reason it is unofficial is that Jennifer Government:Nation States and Jolt Online Gaming do not have a convenient resource that we can use in this regard.

As I stated in our previous debate over this exact same issue, if you are unwilling to play with the toys that others have brought to help flesh out and enhance the game, perhaps you need to reconsider playing instead of trying to ruin the fun for everyone else.

Your entire opposition in the past seemed to be based upon this argument that the List doesn't even exist, without taking into account the RP ramifications that such a list, as created by the original resolution, could have on nations. Even if you completely discount the wikified version of the WHL, the concerns detailed in the Repeal are valid and logical arguments.

You claim that the wiki list doesn't exist, for all intents and purposes of official gameplay. Fine. Then your attacks on it are simply tilting at windmills. Confine yourself to the arguments presented by the repeal instead of creating an issue over a player created resource that doesn't actually have any effect on the validity of the repeal. It's become thread-jacking and I'm confident when I say that we all got tired of it the last time that this came up for vote.

And of course the fact that: "Please note that NSwiki is an unofficial resource, and is not endorsed by either Jennifer Government: NationStates or Jolt Online Gaming" (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) and thus cannot be taken as offical or binding on member states, no matter how much others would try and persuade you otherwise.

OOC: As one of the *two* people who seriously tried to make that article *serious* and in the spirit of the resolution, I can honestly say that I was extremely disappointed with the vandalism that that particular article has been subjected to.

The desire to repeal the resolution, with the intent to replace it with a better worded resolution is actually acceptable to my nation (i.e. me), but I honestly like the flavor and intent behind the resolution ... hence the reason Mikitivity has had a few locations listed on the heritage list.

That said, I'd like to add the following thoughts:

1) If you want to argue against the resolution, you do so because you BELIEVE you have a strong point -- however, if your point has any merit, then you don't need to resort to vandalism of things other players (myself and Freedonia) might seriously put a great deal of stock into ... if you have to change things to prove your point -- it really doesn't have merit.

2) The basic idea of a world heritage list is why many of us participate in the UN ... we are here to build stronger ties with nations, not micromanage other nations ... but to use this organization as a means to stimulate exchanges. In RL, I love seeing UNESCO World Heritage placques in the various cities I've traveled to. One of the nicest things (something we should consider) is that the signs should be multilingual -- notice I'm not saying *what languages*, but I am suggesting that they should be designed such that more people can understand the signs.

And of course the fact that: "Please note that NSwiki is an unofficial resource, and is not endorsed by either Jennifer Government: NationStates or Jolt Online Gaming" (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) and thus cannot be taken as offical or binding on member states, no matter how much others would try and persuade you otherwise.So the WHL cannot possibly be abused, just because wiki is unofficial? The wiki was pulled out, mind you, to demonstrate how easily WHL could be abused. The anti-wiki-wank does not take away from that fact. Just because you don't recognize the wiki list, any other conception of WHL you do recognize could be abused just as easily. So shaddup.

So the WHL cannot possibly be abused, just because wiki is unofficial? The wiki was pulled out, mind you, to demonstrate how easily WHL could be abused. The anti-wiki-wank does not take away from that fact. Just because you don't recognize the wiki list, any other conception of WHL you do recognize could be abused just as easily. So shaddup.

I couldn't have put it better. :cool:

If saving the environment is the true concern of the "world heritage list" resolution, they should simply say so. Heritage conservation should only involve lands that are historically significant [like national monuments, battlefields, old buildings, etc]. If you want to save natural monuments and stuff like that, that's environmental completely.

Since the Heritage Resolution neither specifies nor delegates any authority vested in it, it doesn't do anything worthwhile and as far as I've seen, it's only starting arguments over non-substantive reasons.

Personally, I think that it would be better to amend this resolution to make it perform the very task that it is supposed to be doing - protecting and preserving heritage sites, with the enforcement going to some committee or sub-committee that processes and maintains a list of national monuments - so that individual sites [like entire nations for one...] don't get on the list and other sites [like important historical monuments or buildings] are legitimately protected. Of course, I don't think it would work in this setting, because I don't think anyone has the time or the interest to pursue something like that.

But otherwise, the UN doesn't really have the legitimacy even to operate something like this, because it infringes on sovereignty by its very nature, without any safeguards to prevent illegitimate claims.

And FYI - the draft died... so yeah...
and I know you can't amend resolutions; I said "I think that it would be better to amend" - not "We should amend"...

Personally, I think that it would be better to amend this resolution to make it perform the very task that it is supposed to be doing - protecting and preserving heritage sites, with the enforcement going to some committee or sub-committee that processes and maintains a list of national monuments - so that individual sites [like entire nations for one...] don't get on the list and other sites [like important historical monuments or buildings] are legitimately protected. Of course, I don't think it would work in this setting, because I don't think anyone has the time or the interest to pursue something like that.
And then there's the fact that we can't amend resolutions.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

The representative from Choeson makes a good point, however, and I'm considering adding a clause regarding heritage versus the environment in a future submission of the proposal, since it seems unlikely this version will reach quorum (OOC: but then I didn't TG for it either).

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

It's back. Support the WHL repeal (http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=heritage) NOW!

Repeal "World Heritage List"A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #37
Proposed by: Cluichstani UN Mission

Description: UN Resolution #37: World Heritage List (Category: Environmental; Industry Affected: Woodchipping) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: The United Nations,

APPRECIATING the desire to protect the global environment and sites of environmental significance;

NOTING that Resolution #37, "World Heritage List," does not define "environmental significance";

FURTHER NOTING that "environmental significance" has no bearing on a nation's heritage or history, which the title of the resolution implies is to be protected;

LAMENTING that the resolution permits nations to assign "environmental significance" to sites on the sovereign territory of other nations, thereby preventing their use for economically necessary activities, such as mining, logging, and even farming;

AFFIRMING that nations must retain the right to designate sites within their own territory as protected areas;

CONCERNED, however, that the lack of a definition of "environmental significance" and the ability to so label sites in nations outside one's own leaves this resolution and the World Heritage List that it created open to the possibility of dangerous abuses;

DEEPLY CONCERNED that such a possibility could become a reality and that the resolution and the World Heritage List that it created could be used as a tool of economic warfare or even a precursor to an actual military confrontation,

REPEALS Resolution #37, "World Heritage List."

You have the full support of the Queendom should this come up for vote and we really hope that it does.

Tana Petrov
Temporary UN Representative
Queendom of Karmicaria

You have the full support of the Queendom should this come up for vote and we really hope that it does.

Tana Petrov
Temporary UN Representative
Queendom of Karmicaria

As do we. It's been a long time coming.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstani Ambassador to the UN

More than a long time coming if the NSwiki *which is unofficial blah blah blah* Is anything to go by.

I read that list...and as much as i think C_mm_n_ty Pr_p_rty is a fucking moron sometimes his entire nation should not be banned from industrial development.

My only problem is that the wording is
CONCERNED, however, that the lack of a definition of "environmental significance" and the ability to so label sites in nations outside one's own leaves this resolution and the World Heritage List that it created open to the possibility of dangerous abuses;


Possibility? Um...Wait...it has been abused, just look at the list res#37 created.

The Dominion of Kivisto has supported, does support, and will continue to support the Repeal of World Heritage List until such a time as it is stricken from the books.

Oskar Feldstein
Kivistan Ambassador to the UN
Retaining The Master's Water

Possibility? Um...Wait...it has been abused, just look at the list res#37 created.

OOC: That's the point. However, since anyone can jump in and edit an NSwiki page, I'm not gonna say it has been abused, cuz folks could pop on there after someone culled the obvious abuses.

Still OOC: And to anyone thinking about cleaning up that list, believe me, I'm an unemployed idiot with a lot of time on my hands. I will counter it.

:headbang: I hate it when logic gets in the way of rhetoric.

I read that list...and as much as i think C_mm_n_ty Pr_p_rty is a fucking moron sometimes his entire nation should not be banned from industrial development.Are we on the list? We hadn't noticed. I mean, there's no industrial development allowed anyway,

And we love you, too, you Stalinist pigs.

Are we on the list? We hadn't noticed. I mean, there's no industrial development allowed anyway,

And we love you, too, you Stalinist pigs.


:D Of course there isnt any industrial development...your entire nation has had it prohibited by the WHL! And as we all know, compliance is manditory.

Dumbass!

Still OOC: And to anyone thinking about cleaning up that list, believe me, I'm an unemployed idiot with a lot of time on my hands. I will counter it.

OOC: I'm an employed idiot and I will make the time to counter it.

And we love you, too, you Stalinist pigs.

Dumbass!

Cut it out, the both of you. Neither the time nor the place. You want to fight a war or something, International Incidents is thataway (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1230).

Kivisto...

the funny thing to me is that he thought I would be insulted by him calling me a Stalinist....I am not. In fact I am complimented by such a statement.

I was pointing him out as an example of the many many people who have been screwed over by the WHL...If you read the list I could include many many other people who did not have things added to the WHL voluntarily.

OOC: Because The ideology I use on NS really is my RL ideology which is Marxism-Leninism with a heavy leaning on Stalin thought but I also accept Enver Hoxha as well.

I read that list...and as much as i think C_mm_n_ty Pr_p_rty is a fucking moron sometimes his entire nation should not be banned from industrial development.

And with that, you've earned an Official Warning for flaming. Word to the wise - deletion follows quickly for repeat offenders.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

I am not. In fact I am complimented by such a statement.

I was pointing him out as an example of the many many people who have been screwed over by the WHL...If you read the list I could include many many other people who did not have things added to the WHL voluntarily.OOC: You missed the joke: the PDRCP is the world's biggest open-air hippie commune, so there wasn't any industry before the country was put on the WHL; hence my comment about not noticing. And the “Stalinist pig” dig was a deliberate swipe whose purpose is to allude to the fact that the PDRCP's form of communism is more the Kropotkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Kropotkin)-Bordiga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadeo_Bordiga) variety,with an extreme pacifist bent.

Hence our slogan: All Hail Marx and Lennon!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/5/53/Marx_and_Lennon_stamp_from_abkhazia.jpg

Possibility? Um...Wait...it has been abused, just look at the list res#37 created.
No kidding it's been abused, just look at how many people's genitals have been put on the list.

Timothy Schmidt
Bob Flibble's PA

Approved. Good luck.

That's the point. However, since anyone can jump in and edit an NSwiki page, I'm not gonna say it has been abused, cuz folks could pop on there after someone culled the obvious abuses.The fact things can be (and have been) removed from the list on NS wiki prove it is nothing but a plot device.

If it was a genuine list, nobody would be able to edit it at all.

The fact things can be (and have been) removed from the list on NS wiki prove it is nothing but a plot device.

If it was a genuine list, nobody would be able to edit it at all.

OOC: Don't start the anti-wiki-wank shite again.

My question is, If Hirota feels that way could he perhaps point us in the direction of the "offical" WHL list?

The NSwiki list is the only list of which my country is currently aware, and upon reviewing both it and Res #37 have concluded that the possiblity for abuse is far too great and this horribly written law should therefore be repealed.

Maybe a way to settle it would be to say that, regardless of the Wiki list, and wherever the official list, Hirota is definitely on it.

I can't see how that can be contested using the text of WHL.

Maybe a way to settle it would be to say that, regardless of the Wiki list, and wherever the official list, Hirota is definitely on it.

I can't see how that can be contested using the text of WHL.

Well, he contests it based on the fact that anyone can edit it, so you're absolutely right. According to the text of WHL, anyone can add sites to the list. There's no oversight at all -- no vetting, no nothing. If I wanna add the Thessadorian ambassador's breasts to the list, there's nothing to prevent me from doing so, according to the text of the resolution.

What I want to know is who put "The entire Holy Wenaist Sultanate of Gruenberg" on the list?

What I want to know is who put "The entire Holy Wenaist Sultanate of Gruenberg" on the list?

OOC: You can check the edit record there, can't you?

Yes, but it's an unsigned IP, with only two edits - both to WHL.

Yes, but it's an unsigned IP, with only two edits - both to WHL.

OOC: Ah. Didn't check myself. Thanks, mate.

What I want to know is who put "The entire Holy Wenaist Sultanate of Gruenberg" on the list?

I'm still trying to find out who put "Bob Flibble's Genetic Jackhammer" on the list myself.

I'm still trying to find out who put "Bob Flibble's Genetic Jackhammer" on the list myself.

OOC: When in doubt, blame Kenny. ;)

It was Hack; he said so in this thread.

It was Hack; he said so in this thread.

OOC: Yeah, but I like blaming you just for the hell of it. ;)

My question is, If Hirota feels that way could he perhaps point us in the direction of the "offical" WHL list?The offical list got lost in the great gnome spring clean a few seasons ago.

Probably hidden behind a cupboard somewhere, you know how office paperwork gets lost. Plus those gnomes don't strike me as great keepers of paperwork, they prefer to do stuff rather than record stuff.

Awful typists as well.

Anyway, then we had all those cheap forgeries out on the international black market. Hirota has 27 copies in our museum of Hirota. Oddly enough, although the lists vary in content, every one ever discovered has Hirota included....

If I wanna add the Thessadorian ambassador's breasts to the list, there's nothing to prevent me from doing so, according to the text of the resolution.

Yes, but that would just be criminal.


Sergei V. Telkijski (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Sergei_Vyacheslav_Telkijski)
Itinerant Ambassador
PDSRA

Point to me where the limitation is that stops Cluich from labeling all of Sillytopia as a World Heritage Site:

[ Presumably, it would be up for a debate in the General Assembly.

Unless, of course, your nation has considerable clout in every UN member nation, it ain't happening.

The proposal could certainly be reworded, but seriously, if anyone declared Pushistymistan a World Heritage Site, Izabella would have a few...ah...choice words with the UN GA ; the same would be true for any other nation. ]

Pushistymistan;11947010']Presumably, it would be up for a debate in the General Assembly.


Nope. Read the text of the resolution:


All UN nations may voluntarily list sites of environmental significance both internally and globally.

If he wants to, Cluich (or anyone else) can add an entire nation to the List, and no-one gets any say in it.

Nope. Read the text of the resolution:

[ I say presumably, because if you don't want some very angry diplomats/heads of state from $_random_country showing up at your capital's international airport demanding that they be informed why $_country's_delegate skipped over all common courtesy, then it's rather in someone's best interest not to arbitrarily add someone else's nation to the list.

It isn't firmly in writing, true, but the force of manners and protocol is often as concrete as a legal document, especially when the consequences could be embarrassing, to say the very least of it.

And, come to think of it, I'd have a few choice words to say, as well. ]

Pushistymistan;11947091']I say presumably, because if you don't want some very angry diplomats/heads of state from $_random_country showing up at your capital's international airport demanding that they be informed why $_country's_delegate skipped over all common courtesy, then it's rather in someone's best interest not to arbitrarily add someone else's nation to the list.

Hasn't stopped people from doing it so far. Take a look at the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List)


It isn't firmly in writing, true, but the force of manners and protocol is often as concrete as a legal document

You're new around here, aren't you? I would be delighted if manners and courtesy were indeed observed in the GA, but... Well, I don't want to spoil the surprise for you.


Christelle Zyryanov,
Ambassador to the United Nations,
PDSRA

Hasn't stopped people from doing it so far. Take a look at the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List)

[ Yes, I saw ; it's rather saddening (if those nations didn't sanction that/put it up themselves) that they'd let that happen. Then again, there aren't a whole lot of people that actually use NSwiki (I believe—correct me if I'm mistaken), so bleh. Trouble is, I can't sort out the rubbish from the valid additions. ]

You're new around here, aren't you? I would be delighted if manners and courtesy were indeed observed in the GA, but... Well, I don't want to spoil the surprise for you.

[ Oh, I do love a good surprise.

This isn't my first time in NS—I've had a small string of nations leading up to this one (including one corporation)—but I've never much been into the UN forum, simply because of the polarised

"zomg national sovereigntee!!!1112shift+onez0rz!"
"but it is teh uns job!111!one"

debates that I saw when first I ventured in here.

I dunno. Are those still about?

Well, anyway ; I suppose you may have a point. After all, who needs to respond to indignation at so-and-so's remarks in the GA when you can have a belligerent one-liner suffice? After all, not a whole lot happens, since you can conveniently "forget" (or sincerely forget) to incorporate all those little things that that nation will do to your own state (or what other nations will tell your populace, which will in turn do...certain things if your government is really out of control—unless, of course, it's a totalitarian state, in which case the former should be amplified even more, if the world is any kind of sane).

Or maybe I'm just blinded by Leftist idealism.

But if I were to give up on my cause, I really would have no reason to play NS at all, unless I wanted to use my ignore cannon until it melted into slag from overuse (and then I would be left very, very alone).

As an aside, I'm being OoC ; note the bolded brackets. :3 ]

Pushistymistan;11947010']Presumably, it would be up for a debate in the General Assembly.

And yet, it isn't.

Unless, of course, your nation has considerable clout in every UN member nation, it ain't happening.

And yet, it does.

The proposal could certainly be reworded, but seriously, if anyone declared Pushistymistan a World Heritage Site, Izabella would have a few...ah...choice words with the UN GA ; the same would be true for any other nation.

Let's see what Izabella has to say (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List#The_List), shall we? Perhaps whe might be interested in removing the offending resolution so that she might free the lands for use.

[ Well, busy-work RP is as good as any, I suppose. Shall I start in this thread, or make a new one in II? ]

Pushistymistan;11948045'][ Well, busy-work RP is as good as any, I suppose. Shall I start in this thread, or make a new one in II? ]

Go to II. Your 'signature' microscopic font makes my eyes hurt.

Go to II. Your 'signature' microscopic font makes my eyes hurt.

[ Be ever-so-glad that I didn't choose yellow as my standard font colour. ;3 ]

Pushistymistan;11947530']
This isn't my first time in NS—I've had a small string of nations leading up to this one (including one corporation)—but I've never much been into the UN forum, simply because of the polarised

"zomg national sovereigntee!!!1112shift+onez0rz!"
"but it is teh uns job!111!one"

debates that I saw when first I ventured in here.

I dunno. Are those still about?


OOC:
I think they're eternal.

Pushistymistan;11947530']This isn't my first time in NS—I've had a small string of nations leading up to this one (including one corporation)—but I've never much been into the UN forum, simply because of the polarised

"zomg national sovereigntee!!!1112shift+onez0rz!"
"but it is teh uns job!111!one"

debates that I saw when first I ventured in here.

I dunno. Are those still about?What, you have a problem with the UN Forum's own unique version of "left wing" vs. "right wing?"

OOC:
I think they're eternal.As long as there are people who oppose NatSov they are.;)

What, you have a problem with the UN Forum's own unique version of "left wing" vs. "right wing?"

[ I oppose partisan politics.

So I'd have to say yes. ]

Pushistymistan;11952577'][ I oppose partisan politics.

So I'd have to say yes. ]
The Artist Formerly Known As Gejigrad?

Pushistymistan;11952577'][ I oppose partisan politics.

So I'd have to say yes. ]

To paraphrase the Duke*reverently removes Fedora*
"A day without partisan politics is like a day without sunshine, pilgrim!":p

This will be resubmitted in the next few hours.

This will be resubmitted in the next few hours.

And I can't wait until there'll be something in the list that I can approve of.

and of course I will again support it, perhaps we should start a tg campaign to get this desparately needed legislation queued.

and of course I will again support it, perhaps we should start a tg campaign to get this desparately needed legislation queued.

I'm going to begin TGing a little later today, after I compose some new text for it (past TG efforts haven't been successful, so I figure some new text is in order). Anyone who wishes to help can either TG me (Cluichstan, not its UN mission) directly or head to the thread for the repeal effort on DEFCON (http://s15.invisionfree.com/UN_DEFCON/index.php?showtopic=63&st=0), where I'll be coordinating the TG campaign.

Please look at the last item on the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). I do believe that if this repeal isn't passed, the entire world will lose its economy, except for me. (Until someone adds my nation to the list.) Then I will get complete economical dominance of the world, or the WHL will be repealed. So it's a win-win for me!

Please look at the last item on the list (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Heritage_List). I do believe that if this repeal isn't passed, the entire world will lose its economy, except for me. (Until someone adds my nation to the list.) Then I will get complete economical dominance of the world, or the WHL will be repealed. So it's a win-win for me!

OOC: Don't be a total fucktard about it please. List edited.

Yep, that didn't work out too well for you. :D

Yep, that didn't work out too well for you. :D

OOC: I can keep at it as long as there are people being even more ridiculous with the list. If you're for the repeal, don't muck it up by being a total fucktard. You're actually hurting our cause.

OOC: I can keep at it as long as there are people being even more ridiculous with the list. If you're for the repeal, don't muck it up by being a total fucktard. You're actually hurting our cause.

OOC: Sorry, there was some misunderstanding. I was commenting on Paradica, not you.

OOC: Sorry, there was some misunderstanding. I was commenting on Paradica, not you.

OOC: No, I understood. ;)