NationStates Jolt Archive

IntFeds of the world unite! We now have a place to call our own:

http://s10.invisionfree.com/UIC/index.php?act=idx

Let us end the scourge of the National Sovereigntists and bring a true world government about!

Anyone?

No?

Well, either way - whether you're sitting on the line between NatSov and IntFed or trying to bring every single government under the heel of your boot, come join us down at the United International Congress! Heck, we even have a few members of NSO observing our boards.

Let us end the scourge of the National Sovereigntists

*snip*

Heck, we even have a few members of NSO observing our boards.

But but but... aren't they evil? I am too scared to sign in.

Their bark is worse than their bite, and they are all pretty fluffy if you know how to work them.

Their bark is worse than their bite, and they are all pretty fluffy if you know how to work them.

Lies, lies, and damned lies! :p

But but but... aren't they evil? I am too scared to sign in.
Have no fear, Grasshopper. The purity of your conscience, the nobility of your aims, the loftiness of your ideals and a couple of million in unmarked bills in a brown paper bag stashed in the second dumpster from the right at the back door of Ye Olde Truckke Stoppe will protect you from anything the feeble powers of this world can summon.

Besides, I'll be there. You know you can trust Me.

Lies, lies, and damned lies! :pGuess what card I shall play.

http://test256.free.fr/UN%20Cards/sofluffy7tp.jpg

We condemn this brazen attempt to establish a one-world government through the United Nations. Were it not also accompanied by an inexplicable mass-exodus of so-called "moderates" from the National Sovereignty Organization, and an increasing hostility toward our fine organization, we would not be so suspicious of this group's advent. Yeah, hostility against the NSO is running particularly high these days. On his way out of the NSO saloon, the Hirotan ambassador dude stepped on my foot. I'm all, "Dude, I think you stepped on my foot," and he turns right back around and stomps hard on the same foot. I'm all, "Owwww!" and he turns to leave, bumping my shoulder and muttering incoherently about "right-wing sovereigntist bastards" and "individual sovereignty" and "bushmeat."

At it comes to our attention that this UIC is not the only organization bent on world government in this body! That's right, folks. Stories below where we stand, in the dark and shadows, communes a dodgy group of individuals who plot this body's every move in smoke-filled rooms. I think they're called the UN Old Fogies, or something. No, that's not right. ... UN Old Fluffies? ... UN Guardin' to the Oldies 6? No ... [checks signature] Ah. UNOG. And get this: we were actually a member of this corruptive organization! We were tricked into joining, I tell you! (and in ain't hard to trick a Kennyite; we're pretty stupid, you know). "Join the Old Guard," Yelda says. "Nonstop partying day and night," Yelda says. "All the wine and Fine Yeldan Cheese™ you can handle," Yelda says. I get down there, and it's this dank, cobweb-filled dungeon, with sniveling little hunchback creatures doddering all about. At first I thought they were gnomes, but then I learned they were actually national ambassadors, hunched over from lack of sun due to endless sojourns in their underground lair. "Join us! Join us!" they shrieked with terrible glee as they closed in on me with outstretched arms like salivating zombies. I was piss-pants terrified, so we joined. (Or maybe we asked to join? Frankly, I can't remember.)

Thank God we have wised up since then, and suddenly conscious of all the despicable efforts lurking in these halls to impose one-world government on all member states. Hence we will pass on joining this power-mad Trilateral Commission posing as a "congress." Hear this, noble ambassadors: the only world domination scheme we would ever support would be on behalf of M-O-I. And by "M-O-I," I mean, "O-M-G-T-K-K," and by "O-M-G-T-K-K," I mean "O-M-I-G-O-D-T-H-E-Y-K-I-L-L-E-D-K-E-N-N-Y." That's right. The only plan for world domination that should ever be sanctioned is one that involves invading pissant nation after pissant nation, accusing them all of supporting terrorism, in some cases with actual evidence against them, until total Kennyite hegemony over the third world is achieved.

Who's with me?

~Jack Riley
OMGTKK Ambassador
Raving Lunatic Extraordinaire

The people of Cluichstan will gladly stand with their Kennyite friends, as long as it means we get to expand the reach of our international um...commerce. Yeah, commerce.

Your slanderous insinuations towards the UN Old Guard who's membership includes noted Sovereigntists such as Gruenberg, Texan Hotrodders, and Flibs (who's name I can never remember) shows your utter inability to comprehend the reality of the political world around you. One must wonder whether your claims against the UIC are equally slanderous and if you should just be outright ignored.

I ask the, the members of this United Nations, can you truly trust anyone that has died 57 times? (According to Guiness).

I ask the, the members of this United Nations, can you truly trust anyone that has died 57 times? (According to Guiness).58, if I had my way. Sadly, treading on toes is rarely fatal.







:p

IntFeds of the world unite! We now have a place to call our own:

http://s10.invisionfree.com/UIC/index.php?act=idx

Let us end the scourge of the National Sovereigntists and bring a true world government about!

Anyone?

No?

Well, either way - whether you're sitting on the line between NatSov and IntFed or trying to bring every single government under the heel of your boot, come join us down at the United International Congress! Heck, we even have a few members of NSO observing our boards.

YES!!!!!

Forgottenlands, I could truly kiss your feet in joy for your genius. Thank god, we International Federalists finally have an organisation to counter the excesses of the NatSov Cabal.

Nations of the World Unite!

And may the blessings of Tarkan the Great Otter be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Wouldn't it just be easier for all the IntFeds to move into a single country and isolate themselves from the rest of the world. They could pretend they run the whole planet without bothering anyone else.

Wouldn't it just be easier for all the IntFeds to move into a single country and isolate themselves from the rest of the world. They could pretend they run the whole planet without bothering anyone else.

"Wouldn't it just be easier for all the NatSovs to just leave the UN and isolate themselves from the rest of the world? Then they would be truly sovereign without bothering anyone else."

Oh look, that line seems rather familiar. Guess what, the vast majority of the NSO are still members of the UN.

OOC: Since I can't be arsed to wait the appropriate time for a referendum, I'm squeezing time in typically lazy fashion.

IC:

Ecopoeia has held a referendum on joining UIC. Our people have voted by a clear majority to decline membership, a result that is not unexpected given current apathy concerning UN membership.

I wish you well, though I would prefer to see a reduction rather than an increase in factionalism within the UN.

On another note, I'm mystified by the ramblings and accusations made by Ambassador Riley. UNOG has always - in my experience - been a forum for quiet discussion of life outside of the hustle and bustle of UN politics.

There is no agenda.

Lata Chakrabarti
Speaker to the UN

The Ausserland delegation would like to extend its best wishes to the new United International Congress. While we have no intention of joining the group, we hope it proves productive and enjoyable for its members.

To the distinguished Speaker Chakrabarti -- We are almost always mystified by the ramblings of Ambassador Riley. We spend many enjoyable hours trying to figure out what he said. And then we while away more time trying to figure out what he meant to say. It's been suggested that synchronized thumb-twiddling would be more productive. But we don't buy that. We enjoy Ambassador Riley immensely.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador to the United Nations

World government?

I'm all for certain standards of human rights and congenial behaviour being held up across the world, but the globe is far to diverse to govern it with one single body.

There should the a third organization, the MCFRT

Mellow Countries For Reasonable Thinking.

Where we figure what is reasonable for the UN to say, and what not, and not get swept up in all this NatSov InFed business.

But I'm to lazy, Mellow, and Reasonable to do that, so somebody else will.

World government?

I'm all for certain standards of human rights and congenial behaviour being held up across the world, but the globe is far to diverse to govern it with one single body.

There should the a third organization, the MCFRT

Mellow Countries For Reasonable Thinking.

Where we figure what is reasonable for the UN to say, and what not, and not get swept up in all this NatSov InFed business.

But I'm to lazy, Mellow, and Reasonable to do that, so somebody else will.
The forum is simply for discussing IntFed legislation. What would a moderate forum do? That's called the UN forum, where everyone meets.

We enjoy Ambassador Riley immensely.

Me too, nudge nudge, wink wink.

"Oh my god, is this microphone actually on???"
-----------------------------
Dicey Reilly, Co-President of Ardchoille.

The forum is simply for discussing IntFed legislation. What would a moderate forum do? That's called the UN forum, where everyone meets.

To be fair, a "centrist" organisation could be a meeting point of like-minded nations, rather than a replication of jolt. As such, if there are enough supporters, it would be perfectly legitimate.

The way I see it, the organised political spectrum currently looks like this:

Gatesville & Co.: Anti-UN, supports Repeals and UN-limiting Resolutions. The UN should not exist.
NSO: NatSov, supports Resolutions protecting the decision power of states, or regulating international relations. The UN should be an international moderator.
UIC: IntFed, supports any Resolution perceived to improve the life of citizens throughout nations, irrespectively of the impact on government power. The UN should be a world government.

Between the NSO and the UIC, there are many who believe the UN should respect NatSov in principle, but have no qualms abandoning it for what they perceive as higher values, notably Human Rights. Some of these people have been "moderates" within the NSO for some time, but have recently left following its apparent shift towards a more radical stance on human rights. Still, they would not review themselves on the "world government" position of the UIC. If the current trends persist, I find it likely that they will start organising, roughly on the principles of "Human Rights > NatSov > Micromanagement."

Hence....Reclaimation - an excellent point for both sides to come together.

Oh man, I was just trying to be funny.

58, if I had my way. Sadly, treading on toes is rarely fatal.So then, am I to assume that your foreign minister was lying when he sent an "apology" on your behalf, "explaining" that you were simply playing a "traditional Hirotan game" called "stompsies toesies"? Is that why I was knocked unconscious when I tried playing that particular game with one of your ambitious young staffers, only to be woken hours later by sadistic UN gnomes with nothing better to do, who had decided to alleviate their boredom by repeatedly kicking my senseless body? This sucks. If I wanted the shit beaten out of me all the time, I'd have remained a commentator for Fox News.

Hence....Reclaimation - an excellent point for both sides to come together.

*throws up in his mouth*

*throws up in his mouth*
Would you like a bib?

Hence....Reclaimation - an excellent point for both sides to come together.
Oh, sure. Just pick the forum that isn't yours to pin as "centrists" :p

Oh man, I was just trying to be funny.
There are two types of Funny. Funny as in "Ha Ha" and Funny as in "Odd".

Yours was neither.:D

There are two types of Funny. Funny as in "Ha Ha" and Funny as in "Odd".

Does anyone else find the sudden colour changes of jolt funny?

To be fair, a "centrist" organisation could be a meeting point of like-minded nations, rather than a replication of jolt. As such, if there are enough supporters, it would be perfectly legitimate.

The way I see it, the organised political spectrum currently looks like this:

Gatesville & Co.: Anti-UN, supports Repeals and UN-limiting Resolutions. The UN should not exist.
NSO: NatSov, supports Resolutions protecting the decision power of states, or regulating international relations. The UN should be an international moderator.
UIC: IntFed, supports any Resolution perceived to improve the life of citizens throughout nations, irrespectively of the impact on government power. The UN should be a world government.

Between the NSO and the UIC, there are many who believe the UN should respect NatSov in principle, but have no qualms abandoning it for what they perceive as higher values, notably Human Rights. Some of these people have been "moderates" within the NSO for some time, but have recently left following its apparent shift towards a more radical stance on human rights. Still, they would not review themselves on the "world government" position of the UIC. If the current trends persist, I find it likely that they will start organising, roughly on the principles of "Human Rights > NatSov > Micromanagement."

I just don't see how a "centrist" forum would work: "Wait, no that's too far left, oops, too far rights, oh, woah! you've just gone off the liberal end!". The UIC and NSO forums are for IntFed and NatSov legislation, respectively. However, they are not, as far as I see, analogous to political parties, where there would be a need for something with centrist views.

I just don't see how a "centrist" forum would work: "Wait, no that's too far left, oops, too far rights, oh, woah! you've just gone off the liberal end!". The UIC and NSO forums are for IntFed and NatSov legislation, respectively. However, they are not, as far as I see, analogous to political parties, where there would be a need for something with centrist views.

I actually see them as being quite similar to political parties, in ideological terms. They are just spreading on a different scale. There is nothing strange about a meeting place for people who believe in natsov for certain issues, and send it to the devil in others. Sure, they would have to make their agenda, find catchy phrases, etc. But it appears that what Hirota tried to do when stirring up the "IndSov" stuff was exactly the beginning of a demarcation of the centre. A member of the NSO (at the time) was revolting and saying that he no longer believes the NatSov movement can respect Human Rights. The moderate NatSovers will never go all the way to being 'one-worlders'. Soon enough, unless the NSO makes a U turn, or the UIC does a damn good job at capturing the centre, you can bet your ass a centrist movement will appear.

But it appears that what Hirota tried to do when stirring up the "IndSov" stuff was exactly the beginning of a demarcation of the centre. A member of the NSO (at the time) was revolting and saying that he no longer believes the NatSov movement can respect Human Rights.Which one? There were so many who pulled out during the abortion hullabaloo. :p

Which one? There were so many who pulled out during the abortion hullabaloo. :p

You see? It's a fully organised separatist movement... I bet they are conspiring right now in some dark corner of the Strangers Bar! ;)

But it appears that what Hirota tried to do when stirring up the "IndSov" stuff was exactly the beginning of a demarcation of the centre.
You see IndSov as the centre? I don't, necessarily. It just seems to be another point on the spectrum. But maybe I'm seeing it wrong.

Soon enough, unless the NSO makes a U turn, or the UIC does a damn good job at capturing the centre, you can bet your ass a centrist movement will appear.
The UIC doesn't seem to be aiming for this yet. It might do it at first, seeing as there's no where else to go, but I can see moderate NatSovers fighting against what I see as FL's mission there.

I also don't see Reclamation stepping into the gap, at least not just yet. It wasn't founded with "centrist" ideals in mind. In the end, the most unknown thing may become a centrist party, but we'll have to see where everyone runs first.

You see IndSov as the centre? I don't, necessarily. It just seems to be another point on the spectrum. But maybe I'm seeing it wrong.

Nonono, that is not the point I was trying to make. I see NatSovers who scream IndSov as the centre. These are people who would still revert to "NatSov" and "micromanagement" against many non-HR ideas. People who are likely to resist attempts to excessively limit or expand the power of the UN, (as opposed to pushing uniformly in one direction, as the NSO and UIC seem destined to do). In that sense, they are the centre.

And to be fair to everyone who dislikes it, I agree IndSov is a fragile (as in utopian) wording of the concept. But it has become established, some people get annoyed by it, and I am petulant by nature... ;)

The UIC doesn't seem to be aiming for this yet. It might do it at first, seeing as there's no where else to go, but I can see moderate NatSovers fighting against what I see as FL's mission there.

Will see. Although FL's use of "world government" is tongue-in-cheek to some extent, the organisation might become too... progressive/meddling for the centre.

I also don't see Reclamation stepping into the gap, at least not just yet. It wasn't founded with "centrist" ideals in mind. In the end, the most unknown thing may become a centrist party, but we'll have to see where everyone runs first.

Waterana is quite centrist in the traditional (left-right) sense, but she is undoubtedly not in the centre in the relevant UN-power scale. She openly admits not giving much thought to NatSov at all. But again, will see.

I hope I am not boring people to death with the Nostradamus stuff... it is better than discussing abortion, but I can go back to Tom Waits.

Today's grey skies, tomorrow's tears. You'll have to wait til yesterday's here.

*throws up in his mouth*


*Passes you a glass of St Edmundan 'Famous Old Navy Rum', 105% proof, for use as mouthwash.*

The very definition of a centrist nation in this debate is... Ecopoeia?

chuckle

Well, I'll see what an NSO member makes of that. Perhaps Mikitivity would be a more appropriate choice.

The very definition of a centrist nation in this debate is... Ecopoeia?

chuckle

Well, I'll see what an NSO member makes of that. Perhaps Mikitivity would be a more appropriate choice.
Ecopoeia is hardly 'centrist'. I think Mikitivity would be a better example. But then there'd be many people who would say that a nation with compulsory gun ownership (I think) is not 'centrist'.

The word only makes sense in the context of a particular discussion. As an abstract, it's worthless. Ecopoeia is to one extreme economically, and another in terms of civil rights. Does that 'balance out'? I don't think so: otherwise, one could argue Gruenberg was centrist.

And, with regards to gun laws, for example, I think Gruenberg is centrist. Certain types are legal, but must be registered. This means we get the good sides - 'accidentally' shooting minorities, pissing off liberals - without the bad sides - people being able to defend themselves against the government. There are more extreme nations on both sides.

But would anyone call Gruenberg centrist with regard to other policies? Of course not. I don't speculation on the term is especially productive.

Ecopoeia is hardly 'centrist'. I think Mikitivity would be a better example. But then there'd be many people who would say that a nation with compulsory gun ownership (I think) is not 'centrist'.

The word only makes sense in the context of a particular discussion. As an abstract, it's worthless. Ecopoeia is to one extreme economically, and another in terms of civil rights. Does that 'balance out'? I don't think so: otherwise, one could argue Gruenberg was centrist.

And, with regards to gun laws, for example, I think Gruenberg is centrist. Certain types are legal, but must be registered. This means we get the good sides - 'accidentally' shooting minorities, pissing off liberals - without the bad sides - people being able to defend themselves against the government. There are more extreme nations on both sides.

But would anyone call Gruenberg centrist with regard to other policies? Of course not. I don't speculation on the term is especially productive.
OOC: Well, I meant in the context of the sovereigntist-federalist scale. Ecopoeia sure as hell ain't centrist in any conventional sense. And I agree anyway, the label isn't particularly instructive.

A quick aside: Ecopoeia isn't, as you might expect, extreme 'leftist' in its economic policies. It operates a market economy and is classified as an Anarchy as often as a Civil Rights Lovefest.

OOC: Well, I meant in the context of the sovereigntist-federalist scale. Ecopoeia sure as hell ain't centrist in any conventional sense. And I agree anyway, the label isn't particularly instructive.

A quick aside: Ecopoeia isn't, as you might expect, extreme 'leftist' in its economic policies. It operates a market economy and is classified as an Anarchy as often as a Civil Rights Lovefest.
OOC: I know. But what I meant was: Ecopoeia isn't hardline centrist even in IntFed/NatSov. As I understand it, your policy is basically: 'if we like it, fuck NatSov; if we don't, fuck IntFed'. ('basically' - I know there are exceptions)

Better examples of centrist nations would be Ausserland and Fonzoland, to my mind.

OOC: I know. But what I meant was: Ecopoeia isn't hardline centrist even in IntFed/NatSov. As I understand it, your policy is basically: 'if we like it, fuck NatSov; if we don't, fuck IntFed'. ('basically' - I know there are exceptions)

Better examples of centrist nations would be Ausserland and Fonzoland, to my mind.
Ha! Yeah, you're right. We're just guns for hire.

Bump