NationStates Jolt Archive

Remember, folks: the large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
Get away from me kid, you're bothering me. :p

Remember, folks: the large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
Amen! It is true!
Your mileage may vary. Accuracy may not apply in those nation states where it is prohibited by law or taxed. Does not apply to any nation state outside of the UN. Present accuracy is no guarentee of future accuracy or even past accuracy. Does not apply to any nation state under the jurisdiction of the UN or any UN member nations. Reading small print can cause severe eye stress, headaches and nausea. Do not operate heavy machinery while reading small print.

Get away from me kid, you're bothering me. :p
You're just jealous 'cos I'm big in Japan.

You're just jealous 'cos I'm big in Japan.

Ain't jealous of nobody, 'xept Table Top Joe, the Eyball Kid, and one-eyed dwarves.

one-eyed dwarves.

I can understand being jealous of me, but I am rather sensitive about my glass eye. And I'm not a dwarf, I'm just short...

The most unexpected turn of this thread has caused all of you who have posted of late to rise significantly in my esteem. :)

But I believe it's a one-armed dwarf, is it not, who's throwing dice along the wharf? ;)

one-eyed dwarves.The captain is a one-eyed dwarf. He's throwing dice along the wharf.

The category for this is a bit off. To place abortion as moral decency legislation does not fit into any existing legal framework unless you are a theocracy. Somehow giving someone abortion rights doesn't make them morally decent. This was a very odd structure. It is generally considered an individual right to do something a civil or political. Right here is the problem which eliminates this legislation from being effective. A right is not a moral statement. All five statements are rights based and make no morally specific statement. Because of this this legislations structure is possibly illegal. Prove that any of the statements are specifically morally oriented and I will reconsider my statement. There is no moral argument except for in the opening statement which is not the specific legislation. Furthermore this legislation had a very strange effect on my nation it lowered both civil and political freedoms from superb to excellent which does not make sense based on the content of the legislation.

1. DECLARES that states have the right to declare abortion legal or illegal, and to pass legislation extending or restricting the right to an abortion;

2. RECOMMENDS that in cases of rape, incest, severe fetal abnormality or where the continuation of the pregnancy poses severe medical risk to the mother, states permit abortion procedures;

3. URGES states to prevent the Intact Dilation and Extraction (IDX or 'partial birth') procedure;

4. CALLS FOR increased international research in fetal development, so as to develop greater understanding of the ramifications of abortion;

5. REMINDS states that in the absence of completely reliable contraception, there may always remain a demand for abortion, and that legalisation and regulation is more likely to provide sanitary abortion possibilities.



But abortion is a fundamental women's right; why allow nations to outlaw it?
Because there has been no international consensus reached on whether it is a fundamental right. If you think it is, that is only your opinion, and thousands of nations in this body do not share it. Simply put, this issue is far too painful and divisive for the UN to step in and issue a presumptuous decree (either for or against) upon all members; it would be better to block the UN from doing so, and allow all nations to decide on this issue for themselves.

The most unexpected turn of this thread has caused all of you who have posted of late to rise significantly in my esteem. :)

But I believe it's a one-armed dwarf, is it not, who's throwing dice along the wharf? ;)

Point taken. The correct lyrics are:

The captain is a one-armed dwarf
He's throwing dice along the wharf
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King

EDIT: Of course, there is also the German dwarf who dances with the butcher's son. And the little Chihuahua named Carlos that had some kind of skin disease and was totally blind. But those are whole different stories.

Well, we are all as mad as hatters here. So, meet me by the knuckles of the skinnybone tree; I'll be playing billiards with a midget, fighting our way up dreamland's spine.

And what's he building in there? We have a right to know.

*eerie whistle...*

Depends on your definition of 'representing'. We have no obligation to do what is best for common Gruenberger peasants in the UN; for example, we lobbied passionately for the Global Food Distribution Act, and have seen over ten thousand jobs in the meat industry lost in the last month. I'm not sure low Gruenbergers particularly care that their canned pork is a tenth of an opst cheaper, but they probably care that they have no job in a nation with no social welfare system. So, were we 'representing' them then? I think what you actually mean is: when you interact with us, you assume we are representing 'our' people. Have fun thinking that.

You cast a decision on behalf of your people. Whether that decision is in the best interest of your people or you're simply looking to subjugate them further is irrelevant

Well, we are all as mad as hatters here. So, meet me by the knuckles of the skinnybone tree; I'll be playing billiards with a midget, fighting our way up dreamland's spine.

And what's he building in there? We have a right to know.

Well, shiver me timbers. Mathilda's the defendant, and she killed about a hundred. She oughta know that a 44 wil get you 99, and you get no more than 29$ and an alligator purse.

You cast a decision on behalf of your people. Whether that decision is in the best interest of your people or you're simply looking to subjugate them further is irrelevant
Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. The idea there is any further degree of 'representation' has no basis in substance.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. The idea there is any further degree of 'representation' has no basis in substance.

In the broadest sense of the term, it's still representation.

In the broadest sense of the term, it's still representation.
In the utterly useless, unhelpful and irrelevant sense of the term...yes, I agree, it is.

I assume you're opposed to income tax, then?

No, why should I be? Things need to be paid for. Freedom costs, you know.

Depends on your definition of 'representing'. We have no obligation to do what is best for common Gruenberger peasants in the UN; for example, we lobbied passionately for the Global Food Distribution Act, and have seen over ten thousand jobs in the meat industry lost in the last month. I'm not sure low Gruenbergers particularly care that their canned pork is a tenth of an opst cheaper, but they probably care that they have no job in a nation with no social welfare system. So, were we 'representing' them then? I think what you actually mean is: when you interact with us, you assume we are representing 'our' people. Have fun thinking that.

Whatever you do or legislate happens to your people. So you represent them, even if they don't like your government. People don't have to like what you do, but without the people, you wouldn't be a government. Do think about that.

You're just jealous 'cos I'm big in Japan.

Tonight?

No, why should I be? Things need to be paid for. Freedom costs, you know.
It's a private contract. You said the government had no right interfering in private affairs of citizens.

And 'freedom costs'? Ugh.

Whatever you do or legislate happens to your people. So you represent them, even if they don't like your government. People don't have to like what you do, but without the people, you wouldn't be a government. Do think about that.

We govern them. We don't represent them.

Whatever you do or legislate happens to your people. So you represent them, even if they don't like your government. People don't have to like what you do, but without the people, you wouldn't be a government. Do think about that.
Actually, I'm not going to think about it: I'm not going to imagine a quarter of a billion subjects just vanish overnight. I'm bored with ridiculous hypotheticals: let's get back to talking about what does happen. And your assertion that because our legislation affects our people means we represent them is silly. If that's what you mean by 'represent', then so be it, but it seems an utterly meaningless definition.

Actually, I'm not going to think about it: I'm not going to imagine a quarter of a billion subjects just vanish overnight. I'm bored with ridiculous hypotheticals: let's get back to talking about what does happen. And your assertion that because our legislation affects our people means we represent them is silly. If that's what you mean by 'represent', then so be it, but it is a completely incorrect definition.

Fixed.

I get the sneaking suspicion some people are drifting on-topic. Please behave yourselves.

Now Mathilda, she was a sight for sore eyes. I think of her and I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better watch itself around me. When they pulled her from the wreck, you know she still had on her shades. As one rose blooms, another will die. It's always been that way.

Never could stand that dog...

I get the sneaking suspicion some people are drifting on-topic. Please behave yourselves.

Now Mathilda, she was a sight for sore eyes. I think of her and I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better watch itself around me. When they pulled her from the wreck, you know she still had on her shades. As one rose blooms, another will die. It's always been that way.

Never could stand that dog...

I'm afraid I must excuse myself from this thread. I'll be off makin' the scene with a magazine.

I get the sneaking suspicion some people are drifting on-topic. Please behave yourselves.

Now Mathilda, she was a sight for sore eyes. I think of her and I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better watch itself around me. When they pulled her from the wreck, you know she still had on her shades. As one rose blooms, another will die. It's always been that way.

Never could stand that dog...
Hmm. I thought "Never could stand that dog" came at the end of Frank's Wild Years (I think that was its name) but I don't recognise the other lyrics. Oh well.

Anyway, I wasn't saying it was 'incorrect', in that I think a term like that can be defined in a number of different of ways. But any discussion of it is contingent on an agreed definition, which it is increasingly clear there is not.

I'm afraid I must excuse myself from this thread. I'll be off makin' the scene with a magazine.
Ah, jeez... you takin' advantage o'yourself?

Gru, I is freestylin' across fo' decades of fly shit.

Ah, jeez... you takin' advantage o'yourself?

Gru, I is freestylin' across fo' decades of fly shit.
Ah.

I was always partial to "Maybe when our story's over, we'll go where it's always spring".

"Mathilda"
Tom Taubert's Blues

"a sight for sore eyes"
Duh

"I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better watch itself around me."
Some intro in Nighthawks, misrepresented

"When they pulled her from the wreck, you know she still had on her shades."
Burma Shave

"As one rose blooms, another will die. It's always been that way."
Flower's Grave

"Never could stand that dog..."
Bingo, Gruen.

Ah.

I was always partial to "Maybe when our story's over, we'll go where it's always spring".
Beautiful - what's that from? I only own maybe half of his albums.

"There ain't no devil, there's just God when he's drunk."

"It takes a lot of whisky to make these nightmares go away."

"And so a secret kiss
Brings madness with the bliss
And I will think of this
When I'm dead in my grave
Set me adrift and I'm lost over there
And I must be insane
To go skating on your name
And by tracing it twice
I fell through the ice
Of Alice."

"I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better watch itself around me."
Some intro in Nighthawks, misrepresented
It's actually in the opening to the Emotional Weather Forecast. I think it's correct, though I'll have to listen tonight to be sure.

Beautiful - what's that from? I only own maybe half of his albums.
"All The World Is Green", off Blood Money.

It's actually in the opening to the Emotional Weather Forecast. I think it's correct, though I'll have to listen tonight to be sure.

Just checked:
"I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better be careful around me."

One for Gruen
"It's always much more sporting when there's families in the pit"

Just checked:
"I'm so goddamn horny, the crack of dawn better be careful around me."
Ah, yes. That sounds much better. That whole album is a feast of slurred soundbites and crudities.

I've been looking for some kind of an emotional investment with romantic dividends; kind of a physical negotiation is underway as I attempt to consolidate all my missed weekly payments into one-low-monthly payment... through the nose, with romantic residuals and leg akimbo. But the chances are more than likely I'll probably be held over for another smashed weekend.

EDIT: and having now read the lyrics to In the Colosseum, I need to get me a copy of Bone Machine.

Tonight?

Groot, I just noticed you brought Alphaville into a Tom Waits hijack.

Die heathen, die! :mad:

I know karate, voodoo too
I'm gonna make myself available to you
I don't need no make up
I got real scars
I got hair on my chest
I look good without a shirt

I was wondering what on Earth Groot was on about...

I was wondering what on Earth Groot was on about...

He tried to make the Earth die screaming with horror...

He tried to make the Earth die screaming ......while I lay dreaming.

Sorry for mucking up earlier. The problem is that I can't find the [lyrics] with a geiger counter. Well, that and because Blood Money and Nighthawks get far more play than Small Change, Rain Dogs, Heartattack & Vine, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Blue Valentines, Nighthawks, Swordfishtrombones and Rain Dogs get the most play in our house. I still haven't got round to buying copies of Small Change or Alice, which I suspect would be my favourite albums based on the songs I know from them.

Blue Valentines, Nighthawks, Swordfishtrombones and Rain Dogs get the most play in our house. I still haven't got round to buying copies of Small Change or Alice, which I suspect would be my favourite albums based on the songs I know from them.

Both are fucking brilliant. You should have Mule Variations as well.

(Airtime is based on a shuffle of 28 albums ;))

Blue Valentines, Nighthawks, Swordfishtrombones and Rain Dogs get the most play in our house. I still haven't got round to buying copies of Small Change or Alice, which I suspect would be my favourite albums based on the songs I know from them.Tsk. Both Small Change and Alice are very, very good. I think Nighthawks is still my favorite; how can you argue with Big Joe?

Incidentally, does anybody else think that he was utterly robbed by the Grammies a few years ago? He releases both Alice and Blood Money and doesn't even get a nomination.

Mule Variations is something I need to get. Skimming through google's list, it seems I still need a handful of albums... I should rectify that...

For reference (and bragging rights), this is what I have: ;)

http://personal.lse.ac.uk/goncalva/ns/TW.gif

Yes, but I have a Tom Waits avatar, so I win. Should probably dig out my list. Not as complete, but still rather respectable.

That's what I get for being more obsessive about Nick Cave...

I have to admit that Mule Variations left me slightly cold, though Cold Cold Water is fantastic. Used Songs got me started; it's really interesting to trace his evolution as an artist in the 70's. Yeah, he changed completely when Kathleen Brennan showed up but even before then his music was incredibly diverse. Not so sure about Bette Midler duets though...

So I should get Small Change and Alice... and Bone Machine? Judging by the lyrics, anyway. I get the impression that Heartattack and Vine's reputation exceeds its actual worth - there's not much to it once you get past the title track, Jersey Girl and Mr Seagal.

Oh, and if I can find the film of Night on Earth... I remember really liking that as a wee teenager all those years ago.

So I should get Small Change and Alice... and Bone Machine?Yes, yes, and... well... Bone Machine is completely different than anything else. It's more... ah... harsh. Lyrically, it's brilliant, but the music is something else. Might be worth it to see if you can sample a few tracks at Amazon or the like.

I get the impression that Heartattack and Vine's reputation exceeds its actual worth - there's not much to it once you get past the title track, Jersey Girl and Mr Seagal.Eh. H&V was the first album of his I ever heard, so I've got a soft spot for it.

Used Songs got me started too. Then Big Time and The Black Rider, then a bunch of albums in quick succession, and a few downloads of rare stuff, compilations and concerts.

I find the Bone Machine a sort of extreme version of Mule Variations. I also think he returned to that style with Real Gone.

H&V is not impressive, but I actually keep going back to On The Nickel. Its one of the many songs that you cannot pin down exacly, until you find what he is talking about. And then it all fits.

Night on Earth is brilliant. Down By Law even more. Jarmusch & Waits rock. Borroughs & Waits rock even more. OK, I am going on tangents, should shut up now.

I am game for another hijack to idolise Nick Cave. But please stay on topic, this is a Tom Waits thread... sort of. :p

I've heard one song from Real Gone - How's It Going To End? - and loved it.

I find it odd that one of his most celebrated songs, Downtown Train, is so... average. I can only guess that those doing the celebrating are nestled comfortably in the mainstream.

Sorry, that's quite random - it's just that I've got Rain Dogs on the brain at the mo, specifically the closing cacophony of horns in Anywhere I Lay My Head. And now I look it up on Google... argh! Cemetery Polka's just assaulted me!

Uncle Vernon, Uncle Vernon, independent as a hog on ice...

I find it odd that one of his most celebrated songs, Downtown Train, is so... average. I can only guess that those doing the celebrating are nestled comfortably in the mainstream.

Have you noticed that the 'celebrated' songs are the ones with mainstream covers? Tom did not make Downtown Train famous, Rod Stewart did.

Tom Waits* quotes on the UN forum - I'll drink to that!

*at least, I think it's Tom Waits

I only recall it from comic-books: Anybody else here remember Jon Sable, or The Badger?

I find the Bone Machine a sort of extreme version of Mule Variations. I also think he returned to that style with Real Gone.I can sort of see this. Bone Machine (not gonna abbreviate that...) had more of the near-screaming, which is amusing, but hard to listen to for very long. I far more prefer his Carnival of the Damned style. Part of why I enjoyed Blood Money and Alice. However, from Bone (such an evocative title, too) I always loved Earth Died Screaming, All Stripped Down, The Ocean Doesn't Want Me, and Black Wings.

Jarmusch & Waits rock.Is this where we start talking about Fishing With John or Coffee & Cigarettes?

I am game for another hijack to idolise Nick Cave. But please stay on topic, this is a Tom Waits thread... sort of. :pHeh. Probably for the best. I started with Cave and was later introduced to Waits. I have even more Cave discs...

Fishing With John

Didn't know that one. But according to IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139776/), it's big in Japan. :D

It's bizarre. I have it on DVD (Criterion Collection :eek: ). The Waits episode has him putting a fish in his shorts. Very, very strange.