NationStates Jolt Archive

The proposal aims to break down barriers that translation can sometimes form. The main drawbacks of translation are: money spent on it, time spent on it, and the barriers that can be formed. The only main concern that can be pointed out is that some may feel that mandatory learning of a new language may belittle others' languages. This in fact is wrong as it will be taught in school, and there will be no laws governing when to use the universal language. It is simply an attempt to unite nations together by some form of contact, and this I believe will happen through the learning of one exclusive language.
Comments would be appreciated...

TFAAP President,
Peter Sumner.

It helps us if you post your proposal here in the forum. Luckily, I've just been scouring the proposals list:

Mandatory Universal Language

A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.

Category: The Furtherment of Democracy

Strength: Mild

Proposed by: Allied Alien Planets

Description: - RECOGNISES each culture is entitled to their own language to define their heritage and roots,

- ESTABLISHES that all countries should have a link with each other through the aid of a common language,

- PROPOSES that this language will ultimately reduce time in negotiations, money and time spent on translation,

- REALISES that nations should also have their own individual language.

Approvals: 0

Status: Lacking Support (requires 124 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Mon Feb 20 2006
Firstly, I think this is a restriction of freedoms, so Political Stability would be a more appropriate category. In any case, this would be immensely expensive and is, in my eyes, unnecessary.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

I concur with the fact that it would be most expensive, but surely the money spent on translation would be nullified and this would then mean that there is no negative income as the translation costs would be spent on the tuition of the language.
Secondly, I feel that their would be no loss of personal liberty or freedom, as the nations would keep their own language. For example, schools worldwide learn different languages at school. Would this be considered a loss of freedom?

I agree with Peter on the issue of the practicality of a common language.

in most countries of the world people are fluent in either Chinese, English or Spanish (I think?) A universal language within The UN would be practical and incourage communication between countries and efficiency in debate and negotiation.

Surely the simple ability to converse in a more efficient way across borders can only be a good thing for the world's people?


TFAAP Member
David Mc Dermott

We're always pleased to see a new member of the NSUN attempting to contribute to the goals of the organization. We'd like to welcome the representative of Allied Alien Planets. Now as to the proposal....

We agree fully that having a common language would be a major step forward in international communications. And we also agree that, in the long term, the costs of implementation would be far outweighed by savings in a variety of areas. The problems we see with the proposal fall into the area of implementation.

Saying that nations will have a link through a common language is fine, but what is the language to be? How are we going to make this common link a reality? These are the things a proposal would have to address before members will take it seriously. And we'd warn the honorable representative of Alien Allied Planets that, judging from past proposals with similar intent, these are very contentious issues that will bring out strong opinions and objections. Unfortunately, while we certainly support the goal of the proposal, as a practical matter, we doubt that it is achievable.

We hope the honorable representative will continue to participate in this forum and bring forth ideas for proposals. Along that line, we have a couple of "tactical" suggestions. Putting "IN VOTE" in the thread title isn't proper. In this case, the proper starting word would be "SUBMITTED", since the proposal has been submitted for approvals.

Also, we'd suggest you not submit a proposal until you've posted a draft here and given members a chance to comment on it. When you submit a proposal, the text is locked in concrete. Posting a draft here gives you the chance to hear what others have to say and make any changes you feel are appropriate.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador to the United Nations

in most countries of the world people are fluent in either Chinese, English or Spanish (I think?)

OOC: One might have to add Arabic, French, Portuguese and Russian [at least] to that list... and even then, can you imagine the fuss that there'd be if the RL UN tried to make any one of those languages a mandatory standard for international communication?

I wasn't suggesting we all learn English or Chinese etc, but wouldn't it be a practicaliy achievable goal in adopting SOME language, from a country lacking an y sort of political or petty confrontations with other member states of the UN?

Not to labour on, but currently there are developments in progress at this time throughout the world. One such example of this is the language of Esperanto. It currently draws from the major Eurpopean languages, this is only used as an example of how the UN might progress through this topic, and I also would like to point out that Esperanto is not classed as universal, but it is a step towards the future. I do realise, sir, that I am new to this and clearly need to research the rules a bit more thoroughly. I thank you for your co-operation.

First of all. This proposal is not "Up for vote by the entireity of the United Nations." It is in the phase that is specifically designed so that the Deligates of the various Regions in the world can either give their "Go ahead" or "Hell no".

Second of all, you cannot force a nation to adopt a language that they do not want. The languages that a nation picks should fall under NatSov and not something that is up to the United Nations to decide.

Third of all, this shouldn't fall under "Furthurment of Democracy" seeing as it does not help the democratic process (the process of voting people into office). Rethink where it falls under then resubmit the proposal to the United Nations.

Can we shoot people for using 'American' English?

I wasn't suggesting we all learn English or Chinese etc, but wouldn't it be a practicaliy achievable goal in adopting SOME language, from a country lacking an y sort of political or petty confrontations with other member states of the UN?

First it would be most practical to select a language that is already common and in use in a majority of member nations either as a first language or other. To simply select one because it's from 'a county lacking any political or petty confrontations...' could mean that nobody knows it but those from that nation. Thus it would not be practical to try and get all UN membership to learn it let alone use it when they already have at least one major language in place that may be better to use. This is why selecting a single language for all is so hard as nobody really knows which one to use.

Creating a new language would be far to expensive and hard to put into place and again it would have to be based none of the languages already in place or nobody would want to use it because it's more English than French, Russian, or German, and has no PigLatin, Dogonian, or Africornian in it at all.

we already debate in English here so I fail to see how this is necessary.

If theres a language barrier there will always be translators. Will someone please think of the translator gnomes before they get put out off a job? :)

we already debate in English here so I fail to see how this is necessary.

If theres a language barrier there will always be translators. Will someone please think of the translator gnomes before they get put out off a job? :)

Perhaps we should make 'Gnomish' (or is it 'Gnomic'?) the standard language? ;)

We are against the universal language. It would unite too many countries together and there would be less squabbling. Also it would allow countries to form into larger military blocs which would be dangerous. We are against this. Also, we sometimes don't like people to understand us. It is better if some of the theocracies speak their own language, names unmentioned, that way they won't attack us.

We are against the universal language. It would unite too many countries together and there would be less squabbling. Also it would allow countries to form into larger military blocs which would be dangerous. We are against this. Also, we sometimes don't like people to understand us. It is better if some of the theocracies speak their own language, names unmentioned, that way they won't attack us.


I fail to see how speaking one so called language will unite anyone.. Look at the countries today with so called one language and see how united they are. Also consider that even so called English or Spanish or French or most other languages had dialets within them that make them almost a new language. Thus trying to find a single language that all would use or even want to learn would be almost impossible.

Thus I can agree we don't need the UN setting one up... as debating it would only cause division within the UN over what it will be and we need to be looking at far more important issues than a single language. Like one form of government to make things simple or one religion to make it even simplier. As by having so many different governments and religions cause more problems than having more languages.....

I have to say this isnt quite a good idea, if we in Miltropolis drops our language, something we have developed over the past 600 years, we are denoucing our history and our culture. Why change a system that work already? Our translator will be out of the job! Wont someone think of the childeren?

Wont someone think of the childeren?

The representative from Fonzoland will be pleased... :D

I fail to see how speaking one so called language will unite anyone.. Look at the countries today with so called one language and see how united they are. Also consider that even so called English or Spanish or French or most other languages had dialets within them that make them almost a new language. Thus trying to find a single language that all would use or even want to learn would be almost impossible.

Thus I can agree we don't need the UN setting one up... as debating it would only cause division within the UN over what it will be and we need to be looking at far more important issues than a single language. Like one form of government to make things simple or one religion to make it even simplier. As by having so many different governments and religions cause more problems than having more languages.....


Interesting point you raised about a new government. Tell me? Would the UN be willing to forcibly decide on which government a nation should have? No. Why? Because it is the same basic principle that was raised earlier, doing so would deny countries their own autonomy. However, in retrospect of the Universal Language, again I call upon examples from "the here and now". Firstly, most countries have a curriculum in schools were students learn a new language. Answer me this, is that taking away a countries autonomy? No. Secondly, I point out that there are already several langauges that are nearing completion of their universal nature. Esperanto is one example, which I have already mentioned, but the majority of you seem to have evaded that fact.

I have to say this isnt quite a good idea, if we in Miltropolis drops our language, something we have developed over the past 600 years, we are denoucing our history and our culture. Why change a system that work already? Our translator will be out of the job! Wont someone think of the childeren?

Agreed. What about the children who work as translators? Or the translators who have many children? Or children conceived in the dark real-time translation boxes of the UN? For the love of god, think of the fetuses!

Agreed. What about the children who work as translators? Or the translators who have many children? Or children conceived in the dark real-time translation boxes of the UN? For the love of god, think of the fetuses!

A-tissue, a-tissue, somebody's got an issue. Need I remind you that any new breakthrough in humanity ultimately leads to job-loss. The advent of computer mechanics replaced human builders with machines in manufacturing. Read more history.

A-tissue, a-tissue, somebody's got an issue. Need I remind you that any new breakthrough in humanity ultimately leads to job-loss. The advent of computer mechanics replaced human builders with machines in manufacturing. Read more history.

I suggest you get some urgent lessons in irony-recognition. And teach economics to someone your own size.

I suggest you get some urgent lessons in irony-recognition. And teach economics to someone your own size.

In my country we call that a burn

Moving on...

Ok, maby ONE job wont matter, but what about our culture, I dont want my people to lose our beutiful language! Whats next? We lose our culture, now instead of Owl A La Turducken, its Gravy apon Gravy, and I can't digest gravy...

Sagen Sie NEIN zu neu spricht.

A-tissue, a-tissue, somebody's got an issue. Need I remind you that any new breakthrough in humanity ultimately leads to job-loss. The advent of computer mechanics replaced human builders with machines in manufacturing. Read more history.

Are you serious? It is because of computers that our economy is the way it is. In the 90's partly because of a boost in worker productivity we had a great economy with low inflation and unemployement.

Need I remind you that your country would not lose its culture or language. As stated in the proposal to the UN, it clearly states the necessity for repect of cultural history in relation to their native tongue. Furthermore, it states that the Universal Language will not over-ride the native tongue of the inhabitants. Why can't anyone see the great potential here? I thought the fundamental principle of the UN was to bring together each nation. Simply passing this resolution would bring us one step to uniting as a whole unit. Thoughts?

Need I remind you that your country would not lose its culture or language. As stated in the proposal to the UN, it clearly states the necessity for repect of cultural history in relation to their native tongue. Furthermore, it states that the Universal Language will not over-ride the native tongue of the inhabitants. Why can't anyone see the great potential here? I thought the fundamental principle of the UN was to bring together each nation. Simply passing this resolution would bring us one step to uniting as a whole unit. Thoughts?

Thank you for pointing out a mistake I had made, now methinks this is an idea I may vote for, but will it really bring us together?

Thank you for pointing out a mistake I had made, now methinks this is an idea I may vote for, but will it really bring us together?

It really depends on the support we get from the UN. They say that it is an interesting idea, but that such a thing may be too difficult to manage. Personally, I think pessimism will not help it, especially from the UN. But as far as I'm concerned; I honestly think that it's one small step to something much greater. We are more than the sum of our parts, it's about finding a tie that binds humanity together. And if that be through some form of communication to start with, then I really don't see the problem in it. I can understand the economical considerations. But isn't it worth it in the long run?

The lack of any language being defined as THE language to be used will kill this resolution. Who gets to decide what language is used? If no existing language, who gets to make the new one? Who is to support the extreme costs associated with the development and implimentation of this language? The author of this proposal should read some of the past debates on other resolutions and see just how specific people want you to be in order for them to even consider voting for a resolution. As it is, it wont stand up for long.

I would have to say that I can understand the concept behind the proposal however, I do not feel that a Mandatory Universal language is acceptable. We are ruining other Countries heritage.

I would have to say that I can understand the concept behind the proposal however, I do not feel that a Mandatory Universal language is acceptable. We are ruining other Countries heritage.


How would it be ruining other culture's heritage, if their own native tongue would be kept? The use of the Universal language would only be used when dealing with others from different countries, whether that be in the UN, outwith the UN, or anywhere else that people from a different country would be in contact with others. As for the comment directly above the quote, why not use Esperanto, it's already used widely in Europe? And as for costs, the UN have already agreed that the cost would be generated from the lowering scenarios that would require a translator.

Esperanto is widely used? News to me.

Esperanto is widely used? News to me.

Please stop personally attacking me. I thought the forums were for free speech not to be insulted, or under-valued. But I have gotten some statistics for you, despite your comments...

http://www.tejo.org/info/pri_esperanto.php?lingvo=en
http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq-5.html
http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html

http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq-5.html

OOC: Wow...as many people speak Esperanto as they do Lithuanian? I give. You're right. That's one widely used language there.

Your links say Esperanto is on a par with Lithuanian. Hardly 'universal'. This is a bad idea; please drop it.

Cluichstan so does this mean that you do think that I have some background knowledge, and would be willing to stop picking on me? :( Hehe.

Your links say Esperanto is on a par with Lithuanian. Hardly 'universal'. This is a bad idea; please drop it.

Under no circumstances did I SAY THAT IT WAS UNIVERSAL! I said that it was one possibility! Why don't ou read the previous posts?!

Under no circumstances did I SAY THAT IT WAS UNIVERSAL! I said that it was one possibility! Why don't ou read the previous posts?!
I did read them. And you suggested Esperanto had potential. It doesn't.

I did read them. And you suggested Esperanto had potential. It doesn't.

OOC: I think there was once an Esperanto cartoon in MTV. Didn't last long. I wonder how many people speak elvish though?

OOC: I think there was once an Esperanto cartoon in MTV. Didn't last long. I wonder how many people speak elvish though?

Mae Govannon Fonzo. Si man i yulma nin enquantuva?

While a universal language is a good idea, iot should not replace native languages such as Alphagos Pythogrian.

While a universal language is a good idea, iot should not replace native languages such as Alphagos Pythogrian.

As already stated Pythogria, the Univeral Language would not replace any native tongue. It is only to be taught to aid in the communication between different nations. This way providing the public with absolute clarity on issues that are stated by other countries within and without the UN.

Mae Govannon Fonzo. Si man i yulma nin enquantuva?

That's just... scary, I guess.

Dra Nukia Hydeuh uv Vmeppmaedac femm hud yllabd yho bnubucym syhtydehk y ihejancym myhkiyka ihmacc dra myhkiyka paehk syhtydat ec Ym Prat.

Bob Flibble
Un Representative

The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites will not accept any proposal mandating a universal language unless the language being mandated is Al Bhed.

That's just... scary, I guess.


Hehe nothing wrong with a little scare now and again, is there Fonzo? :P

Cluichstan so does this mean that you do think that I have some background knowledge, and would be willing to stop picking on me? :( Hehe.

Think again. ;)

Think again. ;)

You know, despite your attitude I'm actually starting to like you :P

You know, despite your attitude I'm actually starting to like you :P

Yeah, happens sometime. It will go away soon. ;)

Yeah, happens sometime. It will go away soon. ;)

Ok you two... Can the three of us be friends? You guys seem to know what you are talking about. And I could really use both of your experience :D

Ok you two... Can the three of us be friends? You guys seem to know what you are talking about. And I could really use both of your experience :D

Only if you can handle snappy corrosive one-liners. And if Cluich seals the deal with this:
:fluffle:

Only if you can handle snappy corrosive one-liners. And if Cluich seals the deal with this:
:fluffle:

My use of the fluffle was a one-time thing. :p

My use of the fluffle was a one-time thing. :p

AAP, don't mind him. He has been grumpy like that since the freedom fighters dumped him. :p

AAP, don't mind him. He has been grumpy like that since the freedom fighters dumped him. :p

I am SO gonna kick your ass, Fonzo! :p

I am SO gonna kick your ass, Fonzo! :p

Sounds like I'm not the only one that's gonna have a fight on their hands, eh Fonzo? :P

My use of the fluffle was a one-time thing. :pHeh, that might be my claim to fame on here. In fact, I think it's worthy of putting in my sig.
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Author of the indigenous peoples resolution
I love individual sovereignty | The only nation to make Cluichstan fluffy and cuddly

Sounds like I'm not the only one that's gonna have a fight on their hands, eh Fonzo? :P

Naaaa... In case something like a mandatory Esperanto proposal makes the queue, you will find that we become all friendly and cuddly in tearing it down. ;)

Heh, that might be my claim to fame on here. In fact, I think it's worthy of putting in my sig.


Oh sweet jeebus... :p

And not the only nation to make me fluffy and cuddly. Just the only one to get me to use that horrid smiley. ;)

Oh sweet jeebus... :p

And not the only nation to make me fluffy and cuddly. Just the only one to get me to use that horrid smiley.

Oh come on, I know somewhere past that cold, sarcastic exterior lies a little fluffy puppy of a nation that needs to be hugged. :D
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Oh come on, I know somewhere past that cold, sarcastic exterior lies a little fluffy puppy of a nation that needs to be hugged. :D


OOC: You hug the puppy if you want to. I've never been fond of rabies. :D

Oh come on, I know somewhere past that cold, sarcastic exterior lies a little fluffy puppy of a nation that needs to be hugged. :D


Shush. I don't want that getting around. It'd ruin my reputation. ;)