NationStates Jolt Archive

Ver.1.2

RECOGNIZING there are major differences of opinion regarding the issue of abortion. Thus making a universal legal position on the issue impossible. But confident that an agreeable medium can be reached for all concerned.

UNDERSTANDS that not all nations operate the same way.

UNEQUIVOCAL in the belief that no human life, regardless of age or stage of development should be valued over or devalued in comparison with another.

FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING that nobody should be forced to unduly risk their life or their health from serious and imminent physical harm, for the sake of another.

PROHIBITS nations from:

1. Restricting, making illegal or refusing any medical procedure deemed necessary by a professionally trained medical practitioner, to save the life or protect the physical health of the patient.

2. Restricting, making illegal or refusing the option of ending a pregnancy through premature delivery or other methods in order to protect or save the life of the mother. When deemed necessary by a trained medical practitioner, as an only option, regardless of the risk to or impact on the fetus.

3. Force or coerce a woman into having an abortion, for ANY reason.

4. Permit abortions based solely on the sex of the fetus.

CALLS FOR an end to non-medically necessary post viability abortions. (Abortions in the third trimester.)

DECLARES that nations:

1. Attempt to educate all pregnant women as well as woman of significant age, on all available options and forms of help open to them in their nation. Related to contraception, pregnancy, birth and taking care of them self and their child.

2. Protect all pregnant woman both pre and post birth (or abortion) from discrimination in education, employment or social welfare, as well as other government programs.

3. Protect all women from any form of violence or aggression based on their pregnancy, child or abortion. For any reason.

URGES all nations to:

1. Work to end harmful social stigmas surrounding unwed pregnancy and childbirth.

2. Work with private and other NGOs to provide financial, medical, educational and emotional support to new and expecting mothers.

Bump with a small update again, just in case......:(

I made it as neutral as I could. So what do you think? Any comments or suggestions, do you see any mistakes?

OOC: Not bad at all, actually. Needs some polish, but I suspect Ecopoeia could support it.

The government of St Edmund could support this proposal.

RECOGNIZING there are major differences of opinion regarding the issue of abortion. Thus making a universal legal position on the issue impossible. But confident that an agreeable medium can be reached for all concerned.

UNDERSTANDS that not all nations operate the same way.Agreed.UNEQUIVOCAL in the belief that no human life, regardless of age or stage of development should be valued or devalued in comparison with another.Not so sure, let me think about it.FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING that nobody should be forced to unduly risk their life or their health from serious and imminent physical harm, for the sake of another.This eases my concern for the previous bit somewhat.MANDATES that no nation shall:

1. Restrict, make illegal or refuse any medical procedure deemed necessary by a professionally trained medical practitioner, to save the life or protect the physical health of the patient.Agreed.2. Restrict, make illegal or refuse the option of ending a pregnancy through premature delivery or other methods in order to protect or save the life of the mother. When deemed necessary by a trained medical practitioner, regardless of the risk to or impact on the fetus.Agreed, entirely.3. Force or coerce a woman into having an abortion, for ANY reason.Agreed.4. Permit abortions based solely on the sex of the fetus.Agreed.CALLS FOR an end to non-medically necessary post viability abortions. (Abortions in the third trimester.)Agreed (there is actually evidence which suggests the later the abortion, the greater the health risk to the female).DECLARES that nations:

1. Attempt to educate all pregnant women as well as woman of significant age, on all available options and forms of help open to them in their nation. Related to pregnancy, birth and taking care of them self and their child.Maybe need to include contraception options in this bit too?2. Protect all pregnant woman both pre and post birth from discrimination in education, employment or social welfare, as well as other government programs.I’d suggest saying “Protect all pregnant woman both pre and post birth (or abortion) from discrimination” – we know how controversial an issue this is, but if they have had an abortion for any of the examples listed above (such as health risks) or other reasons, then they should not be discriminated against.3. Protect all women from any form of violence or aggression based on their pregnancy or child, for any reason.Same suggestion as aboveURGES all nations to:

1. Work to end harmful social stigmas surrounding unwed pregnancy and childbirth.I would suggest the same here, but imagine that would go too far.2. Work with private and other NGOs to provide financial, medical, educational and emotional support to new and expecting mothers.I’d also expand this to post abortion as well[/quote]

Summary: I like, would like to see things slightly broadened, but otherwise it’s good :)

I made it as neutral as I could. So what do you think? Any comments or suggestions, do you see any mistakes?

The only thing see here is a need to bring the father into the issue as he played a part in the woman getting to a point she may be looking toward an abortion thus he must pay to play. As this like some of the others tends to leave the father free from any part in it.


Thus think you could cover him in the eduction part by setting up courses for not only the women but men also..

Since you don't get into who pays for this can see it leaves that up to nations which allows them to bill the father for any results of his play time. Thus this is good you left paying for this out.

I made it as neutral as I could. So what do you think? Any comments or suggestions, do you see any mistakes?

Actually, this proposal (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=468922) is the truly neutral one.

that one is not very neutral at all.

that one is not very neutral at all.

It leaves the decision to individual nations. From the point of view of international law, it couldn't possibly be more neutral.

It’s all very well and good saying a nation should decide, but I don’t think a nation should be the one making the decision.

Surely it’s a tad hypocritical to say that it should be left to the nation to decide, but then restricting the choice for the group it actually directly effects, and placing that choice in the hands of people who have no a limited understanding of all of the situations.

This proposal by JX has the benefit of removing some of that power of choice from the government to someone far better qualified – a medical practitioner. It also has the benefit of ensuring that mothers are at least supported. If they have to have a kid because the government makes them, the least the government can do is lend them support..

I would replace

"MANDATES that no nation shall:"

with

"PROHIBITS nations from:"

Sounds clearer.

I like this resolution so far... I would support it.

Ver.1.2

RECOGNIZING there are major differences of opinion regarding the issue of abortion. Thus making a universal legal position on the issue impossible. But confident that an agreeable medium can be reached for all concerned.

UNDERSTANDS that not all nations operate the same way.

UNEQUIVOCAL in the belief that no human life, regardless of age or stage of development should be valued or devalued in comparison with another.

FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGING that nobody should be forced to unduly risk their life or their health from serious and imminent physical harm, for the sake of another.

PROHIBITS nations from:

1. Restricting, making illegal or refusing any medical procedure deemed necessary by a professionally trained medical practitioner, to save the life or protect the physical health of the patient.

2. Restricting, making illegal or refusing the option of ending a pregnancy through premature delivery or other methods in order to protect or save the life of the mother. When deemed necessary by a trained medical practitioner, regardless of the risk to or impact on the fetus.

3. Force or coerce a woman into having an abortion, for ANY reason.

4. Permit abortions based solely on the sex of the fetus.

CALLS FOR an end to non-medically necessary post viability abortions. (Abortions in the third trimester.)

DECLARES that nations:

1. Attempt to educate all pregnant women as well as woman of significant age, on all available options and forms of help open to them in their nation. Related to contraception, pregnancy, birth and taking care of them self and their child.

2. Protect all pregnant woman both pre and post birth (or abortion) from discrimination in education, employment or social welfare, as well as other government programs.

3. Protect all women from any form of violence or aggression based on their pregnancy, child or abortion. For any reason.

URGES all nations to:

1. Work to end harmful social stigmas surrounding unwed pregnancy and childbirth.

2. Work with private and other NGOs to provide financial, medical, educational and emotional support to new and expecting mothers.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions. If you have any more, feel free to post them. It helps me out a lot. :)



Summary: I like, would like to see things slightly broadened, but otherwise it’s good :)
Did I miss anything in the new draft?


The only thing see here is a need to bring the father into the issue as he played a part in the woman getting to a point she may be looking toward an abortion thus he must pay to play. As this like some of the others tends to leave the father free from any part in it.

Thus think you could cover him in the eduction part by setting up courses for not only the women but men also..

Since you don't get into who pays for this can see it leaves that up to nations which allows them to bill the father for any results of his play time. Thus this is good you left paying for this out.
I would have added something about that but thought it might make the resolution too complicated and troublesome for nations that work differently. That’s why I tried to keep those parts of it as vague as possible without rendering it ineffectual. But if you really think I should add something about the father then I’ll think about it.


I would replace

"MANDATES that no nation shall:"

with

"PROHIBITS nations from:"

Sounds clearer.
Yeah agreed. Thanks. :)
If you see anything else like that just let me know.

Last chance before I submit it!
Any more suggestions or problems?

1. Restrict, make illegal or refuse any medical procedure deemed necessary by a professionally trained medical practitioner, to save the life or protect the physical health of the patient.
I'd like to keep this to abortions. Leave out mandatory healthcare; that should be in its own resolution for two reasons: one, it just makes sense, and two, because then we don't get a redundancy violation with other past/future healthcare proposals.

Last chance before I submit it!
Any more suggestions or problems?

I suggest you don't bother. Two proposals on abortion are likely to reach the queue before yours. If either passes, yours will be deleted.

I'd like to keep this to abortions. Leave out mandatory healthcare; that should be in its own resolution for two reasons: one, it just makes sense, and two, because then we don't get a redundancy violation with other past/future healthcare proposals.
Oh I see what you mean. Thanks for the heads up. :)


I suggest you don't bother. Two proposals on abortion are likely to reach the queue before yours. If either passes, yours will be deleted.
I'm going to take a chance in hoping that the other two get voted down in light of having a more neutral proposal that deals with the some of the issues better.

I know it'll take a lot of luck and still even then doesn't have much of a chance... But I feel it's worth trying.

I know it'll take a lot of luck and still even then doesn't have much of a chance... But I feel it's worth trying.

Good luck!

I'm going to take a chance in hoping that the other two get voted down in light of having a more neutral proposal that deals with the some of the issues better.

Don't get your hopes high. Even if you get this approved, the queue would be:
NatSov
Pro-choice
NatSov

There is no chance in hell potential supporters of your proposal will reject the first one, with the risk of pro-choice breathing down their necks. And to be frank, your proposal is not more neutral than the first one.

In other words, don't bother, wait for the debate, and submit in case they both fail.

I'm going to take a chance in hoping that the other two get voted down in light of having a more neutral proposal that deals with the some of the issues better.

There is no more neutral a proposal on this issue than the Abortion Legality Convention.

There is no more neutral a proposal on this issue than the Abortion Legality Convention.
Yes but only from a 100% NatSov POV.
As I've said in my proposal, ending a pregnancy when and only when there is a real risk to the life of the mother is a human rights issue for me and thus > NatSov. Just like some of the other human rights laws we have on the books.

"Oh, no! A proposal the respects national sovereignty! Why, that would prevent me from imposing my personal views on the whole world!"

Yeah, can't have that...

Don't get your hopes high. Even if you get this approved, the queue would be:
NatSov
Pro-choice
NatSov

There is no chance in hell potential supporters of your proposal will reject the first one, with the risk of pro-choice breathing down their necks. And to be frank, your proposal is not more neutral than the first one.

In other words, don't bother, wait for the debate, and submit in case they both fail.
Nor would I want them to. Hell, I'm one of those supporters so as long as the other mess is still around.

But yeah I think I'm going to wait until after the first one gets voted on, so not to have anyone vote no on it in light of another that they may agree with more. But if the NatSov one goes down I will submit this.

"Oh, no! A proposal the respects national sovereignty! Why, that would prevent me from imposing my personal views on the whole world!"

Yeah, can't have that...
Obligatory counterpoint: giving states sovereignty to restrict a particular freedom is, in essence, giving the state liscense to impose its views on everyone under its jurisdiction. Resolutions that block certain types of regulation actively prevent the imposition of the leaders' will on the masses.

Better that than having it done on the international level. Lesser of two evils really.

Don't get your hopes high. Even if you get this approved, the queue would be:
NatSov
Pro-choice
NatSovNatSov?! Do you know what "national sovereignty" means? This proposal has nothing whatsoever to do with "national sovereignty."

bump with a small update.

<_<

>_>

----

So what do you think? Any comments or suggestions, see any mistakes?

Well it's illegal.

Well it's illegal.
Yeah but I have a bad feeling that it might not be for long. :(

*cough* (http://www.nationstates.net/33572/page=UN_proposal/proposal=26/vote=for/start=25)

And the TGing only just started.... I would think. :rolleyes:


I just want to be ready either way.

Yes. Of course, you're not the only one who wants to be ready. And some of us are sovereigntists.

Yes. Of course, you're not the only one who wants to be ready. And some of us are sovereigntists.
Yeah but if you push it too far, we're going to end up with a problem like we have now.

Hey my country is all pro-life. I will vote for any pro-life or Netural (gives the nations the right to choose) Abortion Proposals. I am entirly agaist all pro-choice proposals. I mean People Abortion is murder plain and simple it isn't our place to decide if a baby dies or not it belongs to someone not of this world. (not aleins if tahts what your thinking lol).