NationStates Jolt Archive

The Clog Wearing Fishermen with Bad Barnets of the United Nations,

RECOGNISING the possible social problems arising from unchecked migration,

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,

1. DEFINES an entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed whithin a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

2. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

3. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

4. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General, directly from the nation's relevent issuing offices via the postal system, or directly upon arrival in the nation:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport; and can only be revoked when the holder is declared persona non grata;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time, or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;

5. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas, as they see fit, and insist on seperate visas for children travelling under the passport of their parents,

6. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restriction violate the United Nations' antidescrimination resolutions,

7. PROHIBITS nations from issuing exit visas, defined as a document or stamp within a passport that is required for a national to leave the nation in which they hold nationality, or otherwise prevent nationals from leaving their nation, unless said national is known to be a security or health risk, or is either a convicted criminal (including those on parole) or has been arrested and is pending prosecution,

9. MANDATES the publication of all Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevent officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personel, constables of the law, and others who may legitimately require such information.

Part 2

I look forward to the Discover and American Express Act.

Amusing title [OOC: I can't say I've heard of the Discover card], mostly decent proposal. Clause 8 is unacceptable, however. I'm not aware of any Ecopoeian who can speak English, though I presume there must be one somewhere. At any rate, we would be unable to provide any immigration officials should this be enforced.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

I'm forced to agree with the representative of Ecopoeia, about Clause 8 being unacceptable. I would be glad to support this proposal, were it not for that clause. There are very few within Karianis's government that can speak English, and typically, they are part of our diplomatic corps.

It is my belief that Clause 8 should be removed entirely.

Serifina Karin
Ambassador
Sacred Kingdom of Karianis

3. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

As well as clause 8 which wouldn't cause us any problem, this clause is also a sticking point for us. Unless there is another resolution on the books that I am unaware of that would make this legal, Kernwaffen reserves the right to deny entrance to our nation whenever we see fit. If this clause was removed or heavily reworded, as well as clause 8, we would support it.

Amusing title [OOC: I can't say I've heard of the Discover card], mostly decent proposal. Clause 8 is unacceptable, however. I'm not aware of any Ecopoeian who can speak English, though I presume there must be one somewhere. At any rate, we would be unable to provide any immigration officials should this be enforced.We must protest and insist that the universal standardization for visas and passports be carried out in a universal language. What is the purpose of this and its sister proposal if not to promote understanding, familiarity and commonality among member nations where travel, tourism and diplomacy are concerned? We cannot achieve this unless there is some universal tongue by which such business is conducted. English-speaking Kennyites will be unable to travel in Ecopoeia if all your immigration officials speak only Ecopoeian languages. Mind you, Mr. Vergniaud, Kennyites are stupid, and unless there is someone at your ports of entry who can explain everything to them in plain, simple, slow and tediously pronounced and emphasized English, there is no hope for their survival in Ecopoeia.

We wish very much for this not to happen, so in that vein, we would like to offer your immigration office the services of a bright young assistant of ours. We would like to hold on to her, but unfortunately, if the Federal Senate ever found out the unethical things I've been doing with her lately, I'll have no chance at being confirmed for a full term in office, not after being filibustered and sent here over the Senate's objections on a recess appointment. Why I'm discussing all this here in an open session of the United Nations, I have no idea.

This girl ain't one for talking much, and she ain't that bright, and she doesn't understand anything about Ecopoeian culture, but fortunately for you, she is fluent in Celdonian. She learnt it ... hanging out at the docks, or ... something. Candy?

[Behind Riley, a brightly smiling, cute little blonde thing with long legs and a forgivably short miniskirt jumps up in earnest, as though she's about to deliver a cheer. Riley turns to talk to her:]

Translate what I just said into Celdonian.

[Eagerly she shouts out, in Celdonian: "What I just said!" and instantly bubbles over in excitement over her accomplishment; Riley smiles.]

Beautiful language, isn't it?

In the interest of promoting understanding, familiarity and commonality between our two nations, we offer her services to you. She will require the proper visa in order to work in Ecopoeia, but money, currency exchange, not a problem: It pays to Discover™.

You know, maybe just mandating translators instead of making the immigration officials have to know English would be a better way to go. Not all immigration officials would be good at learning a foreign language and visa versa.

Or you could just leave it up to the nation. If they want tourism revenues, they better have people who speak English, or Kennyites won't be able to come in. ;)

I'm afraid we will have to rise in opposition to Clause 8, along with our Ecopoeian colleague. Very few Yeldans speak English, or have any reason to learn it. We are also opposed, for the same reasons, to clause 10 of Passport Hamonisation.

As well as clause 8 which wouldn't cause us any problem, this clause is also a sticking point for us. Unless there is another resolution on the books that I am unaware of that would make this legal, Kernwaffen reserves the right to deny entrance to our nation whenever we see fit. If this clause was removed or heavily reworded, as well as clause 8, we would support it.

Visas are issued by the nation to be visited (as was explained in clause #1), rather than by the nation of origin: If you don't want people to enter your country then you don't need to issue them with visas...

Nevermind then, that was my mistake. But I still believe we should be able to deny people at our discretion, even if they have a visa and proper passport.

Nevermind then, that was my mistake. But I still believe we should be able to deny people at our discretion, even if they have a visa and proper passport.

This point was considered in the thread about Cobdenia's earlier draft proposal, the one covering both passports and visas: If you want the right to refuse entry at your discretion then you don't issue any visas at all, you just wait until people reach your border before telling them whether or not they can come in...

The thing about English is a necessity; how else do you propose to make visa's (and passports) understandable. THere are two options:
1) Have the passports/visas in every language under the sun, leading to a 40,000 page passport
2) Have them in English (or any one language, but English is the language of the NSUN so it stands to reason that if a language is to be chosen it should be English) and the language of the home country and teach all immigration officers English. They would only need to be taught enough to understand what is written

If you want the right to refuse entry at your discretion then you don't issue any visas at all, you just wait until people reach your border before telling them whether or not they can come in...
Or you could do what (ooc) Egypt does, and issue visa's at the airport on arrival.

We agree wholeheartedly with His Exellency Sir Cyril Gordon Muffplaster Radionov Casaba O'Mahoney Askalan DeDerrier von Holsterman Wyznyjytski Ungern-Sturmberg Banerjee Svenssen M'Beki Vicenzo MacLehose-Strangways-Jones III, KCRC LOG. There is no way this can be done absent a universal language. Our immigration agency would go nuts trying to translate every application and related document into 80,000 languages. It has a hard-enough time as it is printing out special visa applications with fold-out flaps so Cobdenian applicants can write their full names.

I regret that, despite the kind offers made by Ambassador Riley, Ecopoeia will not support this resolution if the language condition remains.

As an aside, I am fluent in Celdonian (which is the closest to a standard language that Ecopoeia has), though my first languages are Paristani and Nteki.

MV

ooc: apologies, Kenny - you deserved a much wittier response, but I'm about to start the five hours build-up to new year and alcohol is calling me. Happy new year, everyone.

They should be in Gnomish. *nod*

They should be in Gnomish. *nod*

Is that suggestion a disguised job-creation scheme for Gnomes?

The country of Ator People must respectfully disagree with your proposal over Clause 8. Ator People's immigration department conducts all official business in Latin, not English.

I'm all for it. When are you going to propose?

When I get back to a broadband connection, at the same time as Passports;

And, thinking about it, I've just realised that there is no need for English on visa's; although there is on passports. After all, it would be issued by the country whose immigration service would be the ones reading it, so there would be no need to have a visa in any other languages.

Passport would still require it, though...

7. PROHIBITS nations from issuing exit visas, defined as a document or stamp within a passport that is required for a national to leave the nation in which they hold nationality, or otherwise prevent nationals from leaving their nation, unless said national is known to be a security or health risk, or is either a convicted criminal (including those on parole) or has been arrested and is pending prosecution,

We fully agree with this.
Please, will it be possible to add the following:

7. PROHIBITS nations from issuing exit visas, defined as a document or stamp within a passport or from imposing any fees that is required for a national to leave the nation in which they hold nationality, or otherwise prevent nationals from leaving their nation, unless said national is known to be a security or health risk, or is either a convicted criminal (including those on parole) or has been arrested and is pending prosecution,

and also PROHIBITS nations from imposing any fees for non-resident leaving, according the non-resident respected the time limit and others conditions of the visa

1. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed whithin a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

2. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

Agreed with the first, though somewhat sceptical about the value of the second (but that's for reasons other than the actual resolution topic).

3. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

Reasonable enough.

4. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General, directly from the nation's relevent issuing offices via the postal system, or directly upon arrival in the nation:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport; and can only be revoked when the holder is declared persona non grata;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time, or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;

5. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas, as they see fit, and insist on seperate visas for children travelling under the passport of their parents,

Impressively thorough if I may say so.

6. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restriction violate the United Nations' antidescrimination resolutions,

Agreed.

7. PROHIBITS nations from issuing exit visas, defined as a document or stamp within a passport that is required for a national to leave the nation in which they hold nationality, or otherwise prevent nationals from leaving their nation, unless said national is known to be a security or health risk, or is either a convicted criminal (including those on parole) or has been arrested and is pending prosecution,

I feel somewhat lukewarm towards this clause, mostly because the definitions of security risk are considerably more nebulous than those for a health risk. It would strike me that there is a potential for political dissidents or those who displease the state to be targeted, which concerns me.

8. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevent officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,

Like most others, I oppose this as culturally and linguistically insensitive. What might be better is to start the development of an international diplomatic language, which might serve as a useful replacement for English in this clause. Or you could simply mandate interpreters be present where and when necessary, as well as translators.

9. MANDATES the publication of all Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevent officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personel, police constables, and check in staff.

Agreed.

I congratulate the honourable representative from Cobdenia for his hard work and thorough, meticulous preparation, which has clearly gone into this text. I would like to stress that the Republic of Compadria supports this proposal in the main, apart from where we have expressed doubts, which we hope shall be resolved in the due course of the proposal discussion and amendments stage.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

When I get back to a broadband connection, at the same time as Passports;

And, thinking about it, I've just realised that there is no need for English on visa's; although there is on passports. After all, it would be issued by the country whose immigration service would be the ones reading it, so there would be no need to have a visa in any other languages.

Passport would still require it, though...
Then our objection is removed. Good luck.

MV

And, thinking about it, I've just realised that there is no need for English on visa's;
We will be able to give full support then.

The people of Westenwales also see the merit of this proposal. I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.

CLause 8 removed (but clause 10 or whatever it is will remain in the passport one, due to necessity)

Planning on a resubmit; some minor alterations to the wording of the resolution (all done in first port), but other then that...I think it's poifick

Oh my God, the threads have risen and they're voting Republican! :eek:

The Clog Wearing Fishermen with Bad Barnets of the United Nations,Seriously?

2. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

3. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

Shouldn't clause #2 now refer more specifically to "immigration policies", to avoid potential clashes with the 'Emigration Rights' resolution?

Re clause #3: What about people who are only 'nationals', rather than actually full 'citizens'?

I must admit that so far I'm quite unclear on what section 3 actually does since issuing someone a visa quite explicitly means we're quite okay with them entering our nation, so we wouldn't deny them entry anyway - unless something really serious crops up between the granting of the visa and them using it, in which case we'd have revoked it, so basically, my question is, "er, what?"

The Clog Wearing Fishermen with Bad Barnets of the United Nations,

Seriously?

No, I just wanted to see if anyone noticed!

Shouldn't clause #2 now refer more specifically to "immigration policies", to avoid potential clashes with the 'Emigration Rights' resolution?

Re clause #3: What about people who are only 'nationals', rather than actually full 'citizens'?

Will sort

I must admit that so far I'm quite unclear on what section 3 actually does since issuing someone a visa quite explicitly means we're quite okay with them entering our nation, so we wouldn't deny them entry anyway - unless something really serious crops up between the granting of the visa and them using it, in which case we'd have revoked it, so basically, my question is, "er, what?"

It's to clairfy the neccessity of the visa; i.e. it's the only clause that actually gives the basic right of a visa. Without the clause, a nation could issue visas and have no requirement to uphold it.
Revoking visas is rather difficult

It's to clairfy the neccessity of the visa; i.e. it's the only clause that actually gives the basic right of a visa. Without the clause, a nation could issue visas and have no requirement to uphold it.

Well hang on. Why does anyone have a basic right to a visa? We're all for free movement of people but not to the point where denying people visas and hence entry into a nation's sovereign borders is considered a violation of civil rights.

If a government does issue a visa they should indeed honour it and not suddenly revoke it arbitrarily, that much we can agree on. But basically, and correct me if I'm wrong, this proposal would mean that we can't change our minds once the visa is issued, or deport a person while their visa is valid and frankly I can't imagine the rationale behind such a resolution.

If the objective is merely to stop nations from arbitrarily denying people with valid passports and valid entry visas from entering their country, well as I said, that's a worthy idea, but unfortunately I don't believe it could be very effective; if a government (or its immigration officials) were into that kind of decision-making they'd worm their way into doing it anyway and it'd be about as good as "REQUIRES national governments to treat foreigners nice".

Revoking visas is rather difficult

*invites an immigration officer to wield a "REVOKED" stamp menacingly*

It depends on Visa class, of course, but as a visa needs to be valid, a mechanism can exist for the revokation prior to arrival in the nation. A country is completely at liberty to not issue any visas, and I think that the treatment of foreigners abroad is not in the scope of the resolution - the idea of this is to lay down a bsic definition of the visa.

I support this

We support this porposal, and we hope that it will reach quorum quickly so as to perhaps head off the UNID proposal.

i thought the first one to get to quroum, would go first... and UNID's reached it.

Submitted for a trial run