NationStates Jolt Archive

This is just to ask if anyone would be interested in helping draft out a Repeal of Resolution #50 UN Space Consortium. I'll go over the basic points why it should be repealed below:


The organisation is financed through the sale of "stock". This makes the organisation commercial and means that the full focus is not on the science, it's on the money.
Many UN Nations are not from Earth (some are from other planets such as Mars for instance) and this resolution is clearly designed for those on Earth only.
The "Lunar Base" clause is not practical with the current UN. Some nations are even from the moon themselves and the UN should not assume that they do not exist.


So what are people's thoughts? If enough people seem interested then I'll start drafting it.

I would be wary of some of these arguments, in the light of the failure of the Sapient Rights proposal. Whilst it might be good for the UN to recognise non-Earth nations, it seems a sizeable number of delegates do not share this view. So, whilst I'd gladly help out with a repeal, I'd avoid any language that forces anyone to recognise the existence of other planets.

We support the law as it is.

lets see what we're dealing with.

UN Space Consortium



A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Rixtex

Description: Whereas the nations of the world wish to unify their efforts at space exploration, and Whereas, no nation can claim title to the Moon,

Let it be resolved, that an agency to be named the United Nations Space Consortium (hereafter referred to as “U.N.S.C.”) is hereby created.

The purpose of the U.N.S.C. shall be to establish a permanent Lunar Base capable of furthering the exploration of space for knowledge and resources.

The U.N.S.C. shall be incorporated under the charter of the United Nations and entirely funded through the sale of stock to any desiring nation, regardless of their affiliation to the United Nations.

Non-participating nations are free to pursue their own space objectives, but would not reap the rewards of the investors. No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution.

A Provisional Board of Directors (“Provisional Board”) shall be composed of a representative from each nation participating in the U.N.S.C. immediately following the passage of this resolution. The Provisional Board will then proceed to elect a permanent Board of Directors (“Board”).

No sale of stock shall occur before the seating of the Board.

Full operational control, design, development, priorities, and administration will be assigned to the Board whose service will remain subject to the will of the stockholders, as provided for in the Articles of Incorporation.

Let the nations of the world move forward together to a new frontier.

Votes For: 13191

Votes Against: 5426

Implemented: Sun Feb 29 2004

Stocks??? The rewards of investors??? Did the author think a lunar base would actually be a profitable idea? This has to be the most shameful tactic to avoid the funding issue I have seen so far.

Anyway, the UN creates a company; countries invest as they please; participating countries decide what the company does; countries reap the reward. Quite the entrepreneur, lil' old UN...

I would support a repeal.

I would be wary of some of these arguments, in the light of the failure of the Sapient Rights proposal. Whilst it might be good for the UN to recognise non-Earth nations, it seems a sizeable number of delegates do not share this view. So, whilst I'd gladly help out with a repeal, I'd avoid any language that forces anyone to recognise the existence of other planets.

Yeah, some of those religious countries like heliocentrism no better than gay rights....

Yeah, some of those religious countries like heliocentrism no better than gay rights....

I have no idea what you mean. But I don't think it's appropriate for a proposal to force one RP view on people - but merely to remind them of the possibility of such.

It was a joke of sorts. There was some poster saying that his nation's dominant religion made gay rights resolutions a discrimination against them, or something like that, and that they didn't share the view and thus shouldn't have to obey, conform, etc. I was making reference to that in context of the ideas of modern astronomy and cosmology. Pre-Copernican religious geocentrism was not friendly to the idea of solid material planets besides Earth. [sigh] I've got to work on my joke-cracking abilities...

Right...

Anyway, here are some further thoughts.

Whereas the nations of the world wish to unify their efforts at space exploration,

Why? There's nothing to indicate collaborative efforts will be more productive. I suppose one might argue that in the Space Race, the rate of development arose from the 'need' to get one up on the others. There are certainly areas of business where competition is good; why should this be any different? Besides, we haven't unified exploration of land or sea, and have, in other resolutions, established a framework within which this sort of collaboration is anyway possible.

Whereas, no nation can claim title to the Moon,

Why not? And, in any case, this sets a dangerous precedent. The universe is full of billions of planets and satellites: why single one out. Because it's a bit nearer to the assumed home of some NS nations? Great reasoning. Furthermore, the UN does not have the authority to administrate international territory in this way (or it shouldn't do). Non-UN nations can freely claim the Moon.

Let it be resolved, that an agency to be named the United Nations Space Consortium (hereafter referred to as “U.N.S.C.”) is hereby created. The purpose of the U.N.S.C. shall be to establish a permanent Lunar Base capable of furthering the exploration of space for knowledge and resources.

All very noble; all very vague.

The U.N.S.C. shall be incorporated under the charter of the United Nations and entirely funded through the sale of stock to any desiring nation, regardless of their affiliation to the United Nations. Non-participating nations are free to pursue their own space objectives, but would not reap the rewards of the investors. No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution.

This is not a good way to fund a project. I'll defer on this to those who know more.

A Provisional Board of Directors (“Provisional Board”) shall be composed of a representative from each nation participating in the U.N.S.C. immediately following the passage of this resolution. The Provisional Board will then proceed to elect a permanent Board of Directors (“Board”). No sale of stock shall occur before the seating of the Board.

Full operational control, design, development, priorities, and administration will be assigned to the Board whose service will remain subject to the will of the stockholders, as provided for in the Articles of Incorporation.

Potential for abuse, I suppose.

Let the nations of the world move forward together to a new frontier.

Just going to go hurl in a space bucket.

----

Anyway, it's the preams that get me more riled than the substantive section, but I'd still like to help. This thing can be killed. One thought, though: UNSC was RPed. That shouldn't stop the repeal, but it would be worth:
i. consulting those involved;
ii. pondering whether the use of RP material from that would be legal.

I'd support this effort.

Hey, wait a minute... I just noticed that the guys who want to dismantle the moon base are martians! Are they trying to clear up UN legislation before laying a claim? Is this an interplanetary diplomatic incident? I will reserve my position until further clarification.

I really wonder if this act is just another UN white elephant.

At least it dosen't cost the Empire anything since we're not involved in it and don't hold stock in the company.

However the UN isn't here to run a mega-corporation. Aren't we always being told their aim is to 'improve the world one resolution at a time' and is the exploration of space really necessary when theres already SETI programmes in various countries trying to find alien life?

I'd be for a repeal and no replacement.

Ambassador Kaigan Miromuta

Fonzoland: I really don't care if USM does have an agenda. Stopping and thinking about the consequences of your actions is just not rock and roll. Let's burn this thing.

Count me in. I was actuall thinking of drafting a proposal up in regards to space exploration but with a focus mroe on military build-up and trying prevent a star wars of sorts. But after thinking it over, I found too many loopholes that could be exploited and dropped the idea. If you want some help, just ask.

Let's burn this thing.
I'll fetch some kerosene.

This thing can be killed. One thought, though: UNSC was RPed. That shouldn't stop the repeal, but it would be worth:
i. consulting those involved;
ii. pondering whether the use of RP material from that would be legal.
It hasn't been RPed in quite some time though. Here is their forum:
http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?showforum=57

I am for a repeal of this no matter what the wording. The UNSC was a Bigger debacle than the TPP and both have now been archived in the UNO due to inactivity.

Happy christmas all star trek fans!:D

I suppose you could attempt to repeal the resolution and privatize the UNSC and give control of the company based on stocks. This would wrest it from the hands of the UN, while allowing the RP to continue.

Just my thought.

I suppose you could attempt to repeal the resolution and privatize the UNSC and give control of the company based on stocks. This would wrest it from the hands of the UN, while allowing the RP to continue.

Just my thought.

Actually, that is my main objection to the whole resolution: What kind of profit-making economic activity does a research facility on the moon have? Dust exports? No, and as such the whole stock/dividend framework is ridiculous.

On the other hand, if someone can techwank it all the way into profitablity, then it is none of our business for different reasons - it can take care of itself without being UN controlled.

A Provisional Board of Directors (“Provisional Board”) shall be composed of a representative from each nation participating in the U.N.S.C. immediately following the passage of this resolution.

I'd suggest that the term "immediately", as used in this context, needs a clearer defiinition: Would that be assumed to be every nation whose government voted in favour of the proposal? There'd have been rather a large 'Provisional Board', if so...

i wonder what part of the moon the base is on? i am sure there are quite a few non-un nations on there already. this is obviously a resolution which was written before the diversity of NS became apparent, and also written in the same vein as the RL UN principles on space, that it be a co-operative effort, but the russians launched the first sattelite, and the yanks landed on the moon, leaving everyone else out of it. whilst the rights of sapients failed, i believe this repeal would succeed. hell, any smart person would know once this is gone, it is open season on the moon ;)

I'm all in favour of a repeal of this act.

This ranks up there with hemp production and inflatable Gandalfs.

I'm all in favour of a repeal of this act.

Frankly the UNSC is another white elephant which is draining money from all our nations budgets and what are we seeing for our money? To be honest not a lot if anything.

This ranks up there with hemp production and inflatable Gandalfs.
i am not sure if we are even on the same planet as to make it profitable for us? must Flibs next time....

Ok. I've asked about this on the Texas forum, and am hoping some people who RPed UNSC may provide some comments. Basically, I haven't got much on the substantive section: I'm mainly hitting the introductory clauses.

The United Nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING the possibility of the existence of countless planets and satellites besides Earth and the Moon,

SEEING no reason to single out the Moon for special consideration,

REJECTING the claims of UN Resolution #50, "UN Space Consortium", that the UN has the authority to state the applicability of national claims to the Moon,

DEEPLY DISTURBED by the precedent of "UN Space Consortium", and not believing the administration of non-sovereign territory is a concern of the UN,

RECOGNISING the worth of unified efforts in space exploration, but not convinced that "UN Space Consortium" provides a practical mechanism for such cooperation,

FURTHER CONCERNED by the inadequate definition for the construction, maintenance, operation and mandate of the Lunar Base, and as such doubting truly unified cooperation would be possible,

ALARMED at the implications of placing a body operating in the name of the UN under complete control of a possibly partisan Board of Directors,

DECRYING further attempts to limit territorial claims to the Moon or other non-sovereign entities as irresponsible, impractical, and unnecessary:

REPEALS "UN Space Consortium".

I'll vote for that. Let's kill it.

it sounds good to me as well.

The government of St Edmund will vote for this repeal proposal if it reaches the General Assembly...
and the fact that we have a space programme of our own, and that most of our territories are situated on an Earth whose Moon is apparently still unclaimed, has nothing to do with the matter.
Honestly.

Ok. I've asked about this on the Texas forum, and am hoping some people who RPed UNSC may provide some comments. Basically, I haven't got much on the substantive section: I'm mainly hitting the introductory clauses.

That looks good. I'd vote for it. What do we do now? Submit it or redraft it or what?

Minor stuff:

ACKNOWLEDGING (the possibility of) the existence of countless planets and satellites besides Earth and the Moon,
[Should be a certainty by now, especially in NS]

DEEPLY DISTURBED by the precedent of "UN Space Consortium", and (not) believing the administration of non-sovereign territory is not a concern of the UN,

RECOGNISING the (worth) importance of unified efforts in space exploration, but not convinced that "UN Space Consortium" provides a practical mechanism for such cooperation,

FURTHER CONCERNED by the inadequate definition for the construction, maintenance, operation and mandate of the Lunar Base, and as such doubting truly unified cooperation would be possible,
[??? Not very clear ???]

DECRYING further attempts to limit territorial claims to the Moon or other non-sovereign entities as irresponsible, impractical, and unnecessary:
[Now, 'DECRYING' is just showing off... ;) Anyway, sounds suspicious, you are telling what the UN should do in the future.]

---

Along with that, I would make a clause complaining about the whole funding issue. If I think of something I will let you know.

I wouldn't bother. After taking advisement, I've decided to step aside - although others are welcome to continue the efforts, of course. For now, there are bigger fish to fry/abort/euthanise.

You're giving up the repeal? I think it would've passed easily.

You're giving up the repeal? I think it would've passed easily.

No. I'm putting it aside, for now. There are bigger priorities. When those are done, I'm willing to reconsider.

Bear in mind, this isn't my thread: it's USM's. I offered one draft: I imagine he'd be interested to hear from others who do support a repeal. So carry on: I'm just stepping out for now.

Oh, my bad.

Oh, my bad.

Well, if you're interested in this repeal, maybe you could take my draft, and fiddle around as per Fonzoland's suggestions, and see if you can get a workable draft together. I don't plan on submitting it, but I'd certainly support a well-worded repeal.

I'll take a look at it.

Kernwaffen, i may not be much good at writing a repeal but I certainly can help out in a telegram campaign once its ready to roll.

Uh...ok, I'm not sure I'll be the one submitting the final proposal, so I'm most likely not the one to talk to, but if mine is used, sure why not?

The United Nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING the possibility of the existence of countless objects in space capable of sustaining colonization efforts besides the Earth and the Moon,

SEEING no reason to single out the Moon for special consideration,

REJECTING the claims of UN Resolution #50, "UN Space Consortium", that the UN has the authority to state the applicability of national claims to the Moon,

DEEPLY DISTURBED by the precedent of "UN Space Consortium", and not believing the administration of non-sovereign territory is a concern of the UN,

RECOGNISING the worth of unified efforts in space exploration, but not convinced that "UN Space Consortium" provides a practical mechanism for such cooperation,

FURTHER CONCERNED by the inadequate definition for the construction, maintenance, operation and mandate of the Lunar Base, and as such doubting truly unified cooperation would be possible,

ALARMED at the implications of placing a body operating in the name of the UN under complete control of a possibly partisan Board of Directors,

DECRYING further attempts to limit territorial claims to the Moon or other non-sovereign entities as irresponsible, impractical, and unnecessary:

REPEALS "UN Space Consortium".


The only thing I changed was the part in bold because frankly, it seems perfect to me. I changed the part that I did because it could be possible to create a colony on an asteroid that is large enough, as well as what are reffered to as planetoids which are technically not planets, nor satellites. So there's my contribution to all of this.

The Empire of Dromeda does not have a space program so we see a benefit to the UN having one as we can reap the scientific benefits of space exploration without having to pay for it as we are a smaller nation who can not afford space exploration, we would/will not support a repeal

The Empire of Dromeda does not have a space program so we see a benefit to the UN having one as we can reap the scientific benefits of space exploration without having to pay for it as we are a smaller nation who can not afford space exploration, we would/will not support a repeal
You do realize that you don't "reap the scientific benefits of space exploration" unless you buy stock in the Consortium?

Non-participating nations are free to pursue their own space objectives, but would not reap the rewards of the investors. No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution.

It would/will be cheaper for the Empire to invest than to start our own space program

You do realize it's like leasing a car, correct? In the long run, it'd be cheaper to create your own space program and research what you want when you want and for however long you want. See, Kernwaffen wouldn't be interested in how ants react to low or zero gravity so we wouldn't buy stock. But we are more interested in the effects of a nuclear weapons in space as well as creating space based weapons systems, so that's what we want to research.

One thing I would change about the draft is the whole funding issue. It's one of the main arguments for repeal and its got a sketchy line at best.

ALARMED at the implications of placing a body operating in the name of the UN under complete control of a possibly partisan Board of Directors,

We need something on it like:

ALARMED at the implications of funding an organisation devoted to scientific research through stock and other outside sources which may interfere with true research.

After the repeal passes, we need to also make a resolution for a new organisation so if anyone has anythings on that. Hang on to them.

The United Nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING the possibility of the existence of countless objects in space capable of sustaining colonization efforts besides the Earth and the Moon,

SEEING no reason to single out the Moon for special consideration,

REJECTING the claims of UN Resolution #50, "UN Space Consortium", that the UN has the authority to state the applicability of national claims to the Moon,

DEEPLY DISTURBED by the precedent of "UN Space Consortium", and not believing the administration of non-sovereign territory is a concern of the UN,

RECOGNISING the worth of unified efforts in space exploration, but not convinced that "UN Space Consortium" provides a practical mechanism for such cooperation,

FURTHER CONCERNED by the inadequate definition for the construction, maintenance, operation and mandate of the Lunar Base, and as such doubting truly unified cooperation would be possible,

ALARMED at the implications of funding an organisation devoted to scientific research through stock and other outside sources which may interfere with true research,

DECRYING further attempts to limit territorial claims to the Moon or other non-sovereign entities as irresponsible, impractical, and unnecessary:

REPEALS "UN Space Consortium".

OK, it's been a few days. I'm proposing it to the UN. Please approve it if you are a Delegate and feel for the cause.

The people of Cluichstan will most certainly support this repeal.

The people of Cluichstan will most certainly support this repeal.

Thank you.

If anyone wants to approve it, its now up and its called:

Repeal "UN Space Consortium"

If anyone can tell some other delegates about this, I'd be most greatful.

Here's a link to your proposal, which should be useful for getting delegates on board more easily.

http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=consortium