NationStates Jolt Archive


Passport and Visa Act: Back with a Vengeance

Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 01:36
The General Assembly of the United Nations,

RECOGNISING the possible social problems arising from unchecked migration,

NOTING the potential security risks arising from being unable to accurately assess those entering and leaving a nation,

NOTING the variation in economic and technological development levels of nations within the United Nations,

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,

1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed whithin a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

3. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

4. MANDATES that all citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unneccessary through the existance of bilateral and multilateral border control agreement,

5. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum information in English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:
a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;
b)A facial photograph or other accurate portrait of the holder’s face measuring at least 35mm by 45mm;
c) A unique passport number in both Arabic numerals, and, should letters be used, Roman lettering along with any numeral and lettering system used in the issuing state;
d) Passport type;
e) Protections against the counterfeiting of Passports;
f) Adequate space for visas, and entry and exit stamps;

6. AFFIRMS that the passport entitles the holder to any of the Consular services available from their nation's Embassies, Consulates, Consulates-General and Legations as they may require,

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake,

8. CALLS UPON all nations to recognise the passports of citizens from nations whithin the United Nations,

9. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time;

10. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas and exit visas, as they see fit,

11. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restriction violate the United Nations' antidescrimination resolutions,

12. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevent officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,

13. MANDATES the publication of all Passport and Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevent officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personel, police constables, and check in staff.

14. CALLS FOR the eradication of Arctocephalinae

Well?
Xanthal
15-12-2005, 01:44
What do you have against fur seals?
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 01:45
Damned fur seals, coming over to my country and stealing jobs off hard working Cobdenians....

(That bit wont be included when submitted)
Ceorana
15-12-2005, 03:24
It seems like a good idea. I think that the mandations on the actual passport should be greatly loosened, as nations may have a different method that works. (Future tech nations might want to have a computerized/disk passport, and past tech nations might want to have a similarly different system.)

You seem to have covered the fact that two nations might want to eliminate the need for passports.

Good work.
Venerable libertarians
15-12-2005, 03:28
It seems like a good idea. I think that the mandations on the actual passport should be greatly loosened, as nations may have a different method that works. (Future tech nations might want to have a computerized/disk passport, and past tech nations might want to have a similarly different system.)

You seem to have covered the fact that two nations might want to eliminate the need for passports.

Good work.
No No No No No!

Thats it! You made me do it. Im off to Join the National Sovereignty Organisation. Jesh! Won you chaps leave something for us to do back home?
[NS]The-Republic
15-12-2005, 03:45
Bwahahaha. You've become one of us, VenLibs. Do not deny your dark destiny...

Anyway, I'll post something constructive (and relevant :P) when I get time; this is mainly a test post for the new siggy.

edit: which damnitall, ain't working. *huff*
Enn
15-12-2005, 03:48
The-Republic']Bwahahaha. You've become one of us, VenLibs. Do not deny your dark destiny...

Anyway, I'll post something constructive (and relevant :P) when I get time; this is mainly a test post for the new siggy.

edit: which damnitall, ain't working. *huff*
Jolt doesn't allow images in sigs, apart from its own smilies. I think that's the problem you're having.
[NS]The-Republic
15-12-2005, 03:55
Jolt doesn't allow images in sigs, apart from its own smilies. I think that's the problem you're having.
Yeah, I thought I could sneak through by adding the tags manually (:p ) but it didn't work. Anyway, problem solved.
Waterana
15-12-2005, 04:04
5. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum informationin English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:

You need a space between information and in, but other than that, it looks good at the first reading.
Venerable libertarians
15-12-2005, 04:12
The-Republic']Yeah, I thought I could sneak through by adding the tags manually (:p ) but it didn't work. Anyway, problem solved.
You mean like this?:D

http://home.ripway.com/2005-12/534911/uma-member.PNGhttp://home.ripway.com/2005-12/534911/unog-member.PNGhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/Gepgenius81/buttons/Small%20buttons/TPP-member.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/Gepgenius81/buttons/Small%20buttons/una-member.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/Gepgenius81/buttons/Small%20buttons/IRCO-member.pnghttp://home.ripway.com/2005-12/534911/NSO-member.PNG
The Most Glorious Hack
15-12-2005, 05:52
I ♣ Seals
[NS]The-Republic
15-12-2005, 06:24
You mean like this?:D

http://home.ripway.com/2005-12/534911/uma-member.PNGhttp://home.ripway.com/2005-12/534911/unog-member.PNGhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/Gepgenius81/buttons/Small%20buttons/TPP-member.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/Gepgenius81/buttons/Small%20buttons/una-member.pnghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/Gepgenius81/buttons/Small%20buttons/IRCO-member.pnghttp://home.ripway.com/2005-12/534911/NSO-member.PNG
Ah, but you cheat! You cheat! Anything above the little line doesn't count! [/hijack]
Greater Boblandia
15-12-2005, 09:53
While the resolution seems technically flawless, something about the thought of having to listen to a UN gnome drone on about "...a facial photograph, or a highly detailed portrait of a size of at least 35.00 by 45.00 millimeters..." seems rather galling.

Is there really that much of a need for passport harmonization? Should the UN really devote an entire General Assembly vote on such a matter? What benefits would such standardizations entail? While I am a bit skeptical, I don't really mean these as criticisms, just a request for enlightenment.
Gruenberg
15-12-2005, 10:32
Is there really that much of a need for passport harmonization? Should the UN really devote an entire General Assembly vote on such a matter? What benefits would such standardizations entail? While I am a bit skeptical, I don't really mean these as criticisms, just a request for enlightenment.

It already did. So, I'm thinking, yes. Furthermore, I've never really seen "waste of time" as a decent argument. Waste of resources, perhaps. But I'm not going anywhere soon: if we have to wait four extra days for something to come to proposal, it's not going to kill anyone. (Unless it's a genocide/weapons ban, in which case, I suppose it might.)
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 13:04
It seems like a good idea. I think that the mandations on the actual passport should be greatly loosened, as nations may have a different method that works. (Future tech nations might want to have a computerized/disk passport, and past tech nations might want to have a similarly different system.)

You seem to have covered the fact that two nations might want to eliminate the need for passports.

Good work.

That's why it's minimum requirements; any past tech nation, can draw someone's picture and figure out a system of passport numbering, and all the stuff included. A future tech nation may want to put more information on it, like DNA and such. There needs to be some standardisation, however, because, for example, if someone were to come to Cobdenia with a DVD passporty thing, we wouldn't be able to let them in as we are past tech; we'd just wonder why the hell some guys giving us a shiny coaster.
However, if a past tech nation doesn't have enough information on their passports for a future tech nation, they can have really complicated, computerised, DNA-i-fied visas.
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 13:06
While the resolution seems technically flawless, something about the thought of having to listen to a UN gnome drone on about "...a facial photograph, or a highly detailed portrait of a size of at least 35.00 by 45.00 millimeters..." seems rather galling.

Is there really that much of a need for passport harmonization? Should the UN really devote an entire General Assembly vote on such a matter? What benefits would such standardizations entail? While I am a bit skeptical, I don't really mean these as criticisms, just a request for enlightenment.

It allows for greater movement between countries, prevents illegal immigration, raise funds for nations, increase international trade, plus many other things.
Venerable libertarians
15-12-2005, 13:46
The General Assembly of the United Nations,

RECOGNISING the possible social problems arising from unchecked migration,
Is it? My nation allows visits from outsiders. We even allow some to stay. But all visitors are checked before they are granted access.
NOTING the potential security risks arising from being unable to accurately assess those entering and leaving a nation,How would a Passport assist here?

NOTING the variation in economic and technological development levels of nations within the United Nations,ok

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,Indeed, VL happens to be quite lax. Send us your Masses.

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,ok

1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,I prefer Citizen rather than National and i would add in the definition that it carry information pertinant to that Citizen.

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed whithin a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,No problems here

3. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,Good

4. MANDATES that all citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unneccessary through the existance of bilateral and multilateral border control agreement,Can a baby carry a passport? Why not "all adult Citizens" and add a provision that Children be listed on their parent or gaurdians Passport until of an age to responsably carry their own passport.

5. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum information in English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:
a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;
b)A facial photograph or other accurate portrait of the holder’s face measuring at least 35mm by 45mm;
c) A unique passport number in both Arabic numerals, and, should letters be used, Roman lettering along with any numeral and lettering system used in the issuing state;
d) Passport type;
e) Protections against the counterfeiting of Passports;
f) Adequate space for visas, and entry and exit stamps;ok, However why not just barcode point c?

6. AFFIRMS that the passport entitles the holder to any of the Consular services available from their nation's Embassies, Consulates, Consulates-General and Legations as they may require, fine

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake,No thank you. We reserve the right as a sovereign Nation to whom we allow enter our Nation. UN Or Not.

8. CALLS UPON all nations to recognise the passports of citizens from nations whithin the United Nations,Is this required? If this passes then it is automatically assumed we would have to. The Compliance Ministry says so!

9. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time;Yeah this is ok.

10. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas and exit visas, as they see fit,
ok.
11. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restriction violate the United Nations' antidescrimination resolutions,Or when its a UN Citizen which we cant stop from entering as they arent a security threat as per your previous point No.7. There are other threats to a nation due to immigration.

12. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevent officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,some one better tell L&E :D, But seriously this point is fine. English is the main language of NS so its par for the course.

13. MANDATES the publication of all Passport and Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevent officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personel, police constables, and check in staff.no probs here.

14. CALLS FOR the eradication of Arctocephalinae Just two questions. 1, what have you against Fur Seals? 2, What the feck is that doing in a proposal for passports?
Arctocephalus (pl. Arctocephalinae)

n : fur seals [syn: Arctocephalus, genus Arctocephalus]
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 14:05
Is it? My nation allows visits from outsiders. We even allow some to stay. But all visitors are checked before they are granted access.
How would a Passport assist here?
A passport wouldn't, bar having information. A Visa (which you need to apply for, generally) would

I prefer Citizen rather than National and i would add in the definition that it carry information pertinant to that Citizen.
OoC: The reason I put National is because, in the UK at least, you can be a National without being a citizen, but a citizen is a national. There are also subjects, overseas dependent citizens, etc. National is just a more inclusive term

Can a baby carry a passport? Why not "all adult Citizens" and add a provision that Children be listed on their parent or gaurdians Passport until of an age to responsably carry their own passport.

Thought about that, but I worried it would get a bit too complicated. Hence, babies would have passports. Just for simplicity sake.

ok, However why not just barcode point c?
Past tech nations. Cobdenia certainly doesn't have barcodes. But if you want to put barcodes on as well, that's fine

No thank you. We reserve the right as a sovereign Nation to whom we allow enter our Nation. UN Or Not.
Hence the valid visa bit. If you don't want them entering your country, deny them a visa.

Is this required? If this passes then it is automatically assumed we would have to. The Compliance Ministry says so!
Well, without it there would be nothing stating that needs to be complied with.

Or when its a UN Citizen which we cant stop from entering as they arent a security threat as per your previous point No.7. There are other threats to a nation due to immigration.
Again, don't give them a visa.

Just two questions. 1, what have you against Fur Seals? 2, What the feck is that doing in a proposal for passports?
Arctocephalus (pl. Arctocephalinae)

n : fur seals [syn: Arctocephalus, genus Arctocephalus]

*whistle*
Venerable libertarians
15-12-2005, 14:24
Quote:
Can a baby carry a passport? Why not "all adult Citizens" and add a provision that Children be listed on their parent or gaurdians Passport until of an age to responsably carry their own passport.


Thought about that, but I worried it would get a bit too complicated. Hence, babies would have passports. Just for simplicity sake.
What ever about my other concerns you would definately have to address this for me to even consider approving this.
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 15:20
The problem with babies is that if they can be listed on a parents passports you run into the roadblocks of "how old is a baby", and if you put an age on it then you run into the problem of other species...
Gruenberg
15-12-2005, 15:22
The problem with babies is that if they can be listed on a parents passports you run into the roadblocks of "how old is a baby", and if you put an age on it then you run into the problem of other species...

'The age of majority'?
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 15:25
I could, but 16/18/21 seems a little old to be travelling around on your parents passport!
St Edmund
15-12-2005, 16:17
There needs to be some standardisation, however, because, for example, if someone were to come to Cobdenia with a DVD passporty thing, we wouldn't be able to let them in as we are past tech; we'd just wonder why the hell some guys giving us a shiny coaster.

From what you have said before in another thread, wouldn't the DVD passporty thing turn into a printed passport when it crossed Cobdenia's borders? Or are your immigration checks actually all carried out outside of your own territories?
Intellect and the Arts
15-12-2005, 16:19
I was present for the first drafting of this, and I brought up the issue of oppressive nations. Since that time, I have thought up a solution that wouldn't be as much hassle as my original suggestion. Eliminate exit visas. Any citizen of any nation should be allowed to leave their native country without their government's explicit permission. Also, I agree with Cobdenia that there is a problem in not putting some kind of provision about minimum age for a person to have their own passport. Each nation should be allowed to set up their own "age of majority", the age at which a person can get a passport or visa without written permission from their parent or legal guardian. I will speak more on this at a later time.
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 16:19
From what you have said before in another thread, wouldn't the DVD passporty thing turn into a printed passport when it crossed Cobdenia's borders? Or are your immigration checks actually all carried out outside of your own territories?

Urm...look a seal!

Well, maybe Cobdenia was a bad example. But other past tech nations may have that problem...
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 16:31
Okay, will this do?

The General Assembly of the United Nations,

RECOGNISING the possible social problems arising from unchecked migration,

NOTING the potential security risks arising from being unable to accurately assess those entering and leaving a nation,

NOTING the variation in economic and technological development levels of nations within the United Nations,

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,

1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed whithin a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

3. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

4. MANDATES that all adult citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unneccessary through the existance of bilateral and multilateral border control agreement, or unless this right is waived by the recieving nation

5. PERMITS issuing nations to allow children under the age of majority, or a specific age that is lower than that of the age of majority, in the issuing country to travel on the passpot of one or both of their parents, as necessary under national law

5. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum information in English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:
a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;
b)A facial photograph or other accurate portrait of the holder’s face measuring at least 35mm by 45mm;
c) A unique passport number in both Arabic numerals, and, should letters be used, Roman lettering along with any numeral and lettering system used in the issuing state;
d) Passport type;
e) Protections against the counterfeiting of Passports;
f) Adequate space for visas, and entry and exit stamps;
g) The names and dates of births of children listed on a parent's passport (if applicable)

6. AFFIRMS that the passport entitles the holder to any of the Consular services available from their nation's Embassies, Consulates, Consulates-General and Legations as they may require,

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake,

8. CALLS UPON all nations to recognise the passports of citizens from nations whithin the United Nations,

9. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time, or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;

10. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas, as they see fit, and insist on seperate visas for children travelling under the passport of their parents,

11. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restriction violate the United Nations' antidescrimination resolutions,

12. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevent officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,

13. MANDATES the publication of all Passport and Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevent officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personel, police constables, and check in staff.
St Edmund
15-12-2005, 16:39
4. MANDATES that all citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unneccessary through the existance of bilateral and multilateral border control agreement,

Or if the nation being visited has waived this requirement without actually requiring a bilateral agreement?

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake,

So, what if a nation doesn't officially require or issue visas? Can its officials choose to refuse entry to people who have valid passports anyway? (Not that the government of St Edmund would authorise such a policy, of course, we're just pointing out a potential loophole out of helpfulness...)

9. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time;

10. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas and exit visas, as they see fit,

I'd expand #9 by adding _
"d) 'Student, permitting the holder into the country to attend courses at a specified institute of learning for a stated period of time;", instead of leaving people to handle these as part of #10.

I'd want all of those definitions to change "for a stated period of time" to "for a stated period of time, or unless & until the visa is revoked due to misbehaviour".

Some nations might be willing to let tourists work, at least on a part-time basis, for example in relatively low-paid jobs (as lifeguards, entertainers, waiters, or whatever) around the tourist resorts.
If 'Student' visas are added as a category then specifying that it's up to each nation's own government to decide whether their holders can take employement while visiting that nation might also be advisable.

14. CALLS FOR the eradication of Arctocephalinae

If any of them are sapient then you might need to ensure that this proposal becomes UN law before either of the proposals about rights for nonhuman sapients... ;-)
St Edmund
15-12-2005, 16:42
Okay, will this do?

Quick proofreading _
In 6.g, there should be an apostrophe in "parent's"...
Cobdenia
15-12-2005, 17:20
So, what if a nation doesn't officially require or issue visas? Can its officials choose to refuse entry to people who have valid passports anyway?
Yes. If you decide not to issue visas, that's your perogative. The loopholes there on purpose. If you don't want anyone, don't issue visas.

d) 'Student, permitting the holder into the country to attend courses at a specified institute of learning for a stated period of time;", instead of leaving people to handle these as part of #10.

Don't think it's necessary; it's only urging and it is only a minimum request. Same goes for the tourist thing; you can create another type of visa for that.

Most of the other ideas accepted, but I excluded the diplomatic visas from revocation as it may clash with Diplomatic Immunity (the best resolution Evah!)
Groot Gouda
15-12-2005, 17:52
This looks good to me, though it's pretty detailed. But I'll support this when it comes up for vote.
St Edmund
15-12-2005, 20:19
Re clause 7, how about exclusion on medical grounds?
Ecopoeia
15-12-2005, 20:45
OOC: No comment yet on the content but I'll point out that it's "discrimination", not "descrimination".
The Eternal Kawaii
15-12-2005, 21:32
We believe this to be a worthwhile proposal (other than the bit about the fur seals); however, We strongly object to one article:

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake,

We concur with the esteemed representative of Venerable Libertarians that this is an intolerable overriding of national sovereignity. The Holy Otaku Church of the Eternal Kawaii doesn't allow just anyone to enter Our nation. We reserve the right to screen potential visitors to ensure they will not upset the harmony of Our society or pose a threat of corruption to its more vulnerable members. Will all due respect to Our esteemed family of nations assembled here, even if they are from NSUN nations, rude or decadent visitors need not apply.
Enn
15-12-2005, 21:54
We believe this to be a worthwhile proposal (other than the bit about the fur seals); however, We strongly object to one article:



We concur with the esteemed representative of Venerable Libertarians that this is an intolerable overriding of national sovereignity. The Holy Otaku Church of the Eternal Kawaii doesn't allow just anyone to enter Our nation. We reserve the right to screen potential visitors to ensure they will not upset the harmony of Our society or pose a threat of corruption to its more vulnerable members. Will all due respect to Our esteemed family of nations assembled here, even if they are from NSUN nations, rude or decadent visitors need not apply.
And that is the point of the visa. If you don't want them, don't issue a visa. The proposal gives no details on what rules you can put on visas, so you could make politeness one of the criteria.
Kirisubo
15-12-2005, 22:38
lets say that a citizen from Kirisubo wants to travel to Cobdenia.

We haven't exchanged embassies so theres no way to get a Cobdenian visa.

Since they can't get one in the first place they can't enter the country anyway.


Kaigan Miromuta
The Lynx Alliance
15-12-2005, 23:07
Re clause 7, how about exclusion on medical grounds?
that might be seen as discrimination.

i am all for this, as i was last time. we need something in place. the only thing we have a problem with is the 'distinguishing features' section. is that supposed to be a brief synopsis in the passport, or a whole list of every single thing, because for some, especially those with tattoos, it could fill up 2 or more passport pages. we believe a photo, and anti-counterfitting devices should suffice
The Eternal Kawaii
16-12-2005, 00:55
And that is the point of the visa. If you don't want them, don't issue a visa. The proposal gives no details on what rules you can put on visas, so you could make politeness one of the criteria.

Perhaps We are being hasty in Our judgment. The HOCEK admittedly has little experience in customs (in the legal sense, not the cultural). The only foreign visitors Our nation usually receives are the guests at Our nation's numerous off-shore casinos. One doesn't need a visa to visit them; only sufficient amounts of cash.
St Edmund
16-12-2005, 11:36
that might be seen as discrimination.

Even if, since acquiring a visa, a person has turned out to be carrying a contagious disease? (Did you ever hear of 'Typhoid Mary'?)
St Edmund
16-12-2005, 11:40
Most of the other ideas accepted, but I excluded the diplomatic visas from revocation as it may clash with Diplomatic Immunity (the best resolution Evah!)

Fair enough, I've just checked and the 'Diplomatic Immunity' rules allow for revocation anyway...
The Lynx Alliance
16-12-2005, 11:58
Even if, since acquiring a visa, a person has turned out to be carrying a contagious disease? (Did you ever hear of 'Typhoid Mary'?)
you do have a point there. if it was added, it would have to ensure that it only refers to a) contagious diseases, and b) conditions that could actually affect the populus of that nation, ie: someone has what is deemed to be good bacteria on their skin, but is deadly to the people of the nation that they are visiting
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 12:27
The General Assembly of the United Nations,

RECOGNISING the possible social problems arising from unchecked migration,

NOTING the potential security risks arising from being unable to accurately assess those entering and leaving a nation,

NOTING the variation in economic and technological development levels of nations within the United Nations,

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,

1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed whithin a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

3. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

4. MANDATES that all adult citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unneccessary through the existance of bilateral and multilateral border control agreement, or unless this right is waived by the recieving nation

5. PERMITS issuing nations to allow children under the age of majority, or a specific age that is lower than that of the age of majority, in the issuing country to travel on the passpot of one or both of their parents, as necessary under national law

6. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum information in English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:
a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;
b)A facial photograph or other accurate portrait of the holder’s face measuring at least 35mm by 45mm;
c) A unique passport number in both Arabic numerals, and, should letters be used, Roman lettering along with any numeral and lettering system used in the issuing state;
d) Passport type;
e) Protections against the counterfeiting of Passports;
f) Adequate space for visas, and entry and exit stamps;
g) The names and dates of births of children listed on a parent's passport (if applicable)

7. AFFIRMS that the passport entitles the holder to any of the Consular services available from their nation's Embassies, Consulates, Consulates-General and Legations as they may require,

8. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

9. CALLS UPON all nations to recognise the passports of citizens from nations whithin the United Nations,

10. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General, or directly from the nation's relevent issuing offices via the postal system:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time, or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;

11. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas, as they see fit, and insist on seperate visas for children travelling under the passport of their parents,

12. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restriction violate the United Nations' antidescrimination resolutions,

13. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevent officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,

14. MANDATES the publication of all Passport and Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevent officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personel, police constables, and check in staff.

Right, now you can get a visa using the post (so the embassy exchange doohicky is neccessary) and you can be refused admittedance for reasons of medical quarantine.
Gruenberg
16-12-2005, 12:30
Right, now you can get a visa using the post (so the embassy exchange doohicky is neccessary) and you can be refused admittedance for reasons of medical quarantine.

You're also 929 characters over the limit, as things stand.
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 12:32
Shit.

Right, bye-bye baby passports and some of the preamble...
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 14:17
Shortened a bit. Not sure what the character limit is, though:

The General Assembly of the United Nations,

NOTING the potential security risks arising from being unable to accurately assess those entering and leaving a nation,

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,

1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed within a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

3. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

4. MANDATES that all adult citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unnecessary through the existence of bilateral and multilateral border control agreement, or unless this right is waived by the receiving nation

5. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum information in English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:
a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;
b)A facial photograph or other accurate portrait of the holder’s face measuring at least 35mm by 45mm;
c) A unique passport number in both Arabic numerals, and, should letters be used, Roman lettering along with any numeral and lettering system used in the issuing state;
d) Passport type;
e) Protections against the counterfeiting of Passports;
f) Adequate space for visas, and entry and exit stamps;

6. AFFIRMS that the passport entitles the holder to any of the Consular services available from their nation's Embassies, Consulates, Consulates-General and Legations as they may require,

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

8. CALLS UPON all nations to recognise the passports of citizens from nations within the United Nations,

9. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General, or directly from the nation's relevant issuing offices via the postal system:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time, or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;

10. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas, as they see fit, and insist on separate visas for children travelling under the passport of their parents,

11. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restrictions violate the United Nations' anti-discrimination resolutions,

12. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevant officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,

13. MANDATES the publication of all Passport and Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to all relevant officials, including but not limited to: immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personnel, police constables, and check in staff.
Gruenberg
16-12-2005, 14:20
Now it's 493 characters over. Not sure how many characters are allowed, but you need it to be under 3000 without spaces, under 3400 with spaces, IIRC. I don't know what counts as one character.
The Lynx Alliance
16-12-2005, 14:24
still dont like the part 'distinguishing features', because it could be open for abuse as i have stated. if someone comes along, with tattoos up their arms and legs, they could have 2or more pages of the passport taken up with them.
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 14:29
The United Nations,

NOTING the potential risks arising from being unable to accurately assess those entering and leaving a nation,

FURTHER NOTING that nations around the world have different attitudes towards immigration policy,

RECOGNISING that nations may require foreign nationals in their borders to be in possession of a valid visa,

1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed within a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

3. AFFIRMS the rights of nations to set their own migration policies,

4. MANDATES that all adult citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unnecessary by the receiving nation,

5. MANDATES that a Passport must have the following minimum information in English and all languages recognised by the issuing state:
a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;
b) A facial photograph or other accurate portrait of the holder’s face
c) A unique passport number in both Arabic numerals, and, should letters be used, Roman lettering along with any numeral and lettering system used in the issuing state;
d) Passport type;
e) Protections against the counterfeiting of Passports;
f) Adequate space for visas, and entry and exit stamps;

6. AFFIRMS that the passport entitles the holder to any of the Consular services available from their nation's Embassies, Consulates, Consulates-General and Legations as they may require,

7. AFFIRMS that any person, who holds citizenship in a nation within the United Nations, carrying a valid passport and visa cannot be denied entry to a nation, except where the security of that nation is at stake, or due to reasons of medical quarantine,

8. CALLS UPON all nations to recognise the passports of citizens from nations within the United Nations,

9. URGES all nations to make available the following entrance visa classes for foreign nationals at their Embassies and Consulates-General, or directly from the nation's relevant issuing offices via the postal system:
a) Diplomatic, entitling the holder to the standard diplomatic immunities in the nation for a stated period of time. This can only be issued to persons carrying a diplomatic passport;
b) Work, permitting the holder to be employed in the nation for a stated period of time, or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;
c) Tourist, permitting the holder into the country and prohibiting their employment for a stated period of time or until revoked for violation of the terms of the visa;

10. AFFIRMS that nations may issue further classes of visas as appropriate, including migratory visas, as they see fit,

11. AFFIRMS that nations may impose restrictions as to who are entitled to visas, except when such restrictions violate the United Nations' anti-discrimination resolutions,

12. MANDATES that all immigration and other relevant officials have a basic grounding in the English Language,

13. MANDATES the publication of all Passport and Visa designs (including information about counterfeit protections), to be made available to immigration officials, customs and excise officers, security personnel, police constables, and check in staff, and other relevant officials.



2984 without spaces, 3567 with...
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 14:30
still dont like the part 'distinguishing features', because it could be open for abuse as i have stated. if someone comes along, with tattoos up their arms and legs, they could have 2or more pages of the passport taken up with them.

Or you could put "multiple tatoos covering arms and legs"; it's not exactly a serious abuse. It doesn't matter how many pages it takes up, and it is up to each nation
Gruenberg
16-12-2005, 14:31
106 over, I think.
The Lynx Alliance
16-12-2005, 14:32
Or you could put "multiple tatoos covering arms and legs"; it's not exactly a serious abuse. It doesn't matter how many pages it takes up, and it is up to each nation
fair enough, just thought it was a possibility. i know most nations would think sanely, but there are a few out there....
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 14:40
When I get a second endorsement (a lot of people in my region left recently), I'll try to submit it as is and see what happens
Gruenberg
16-12-2005, 14:42
When I get a second endorsement (a lot of people in my region left recently), I'll try to submit it as is and see what happens

As it is, it is 106 characters too long. I just tried it out. I'm looking over things to cut.
Fonzoland
16-12-2005, 15:09
1. DEFINES a Passport as a travel document by the nation of which the person is a citizen, identifying the bearer as a national of that country,

I would rather write "a travel document issued by a nation..." The "issued" part seems important, and people can have multiple nationalities/passports.

2. DEFINES a entrance visa as a stamp or documentation issued by a nation, and placed within a Passport, that allows the bearer entry into that nation for as long as the visa remains valid,

I think more accurate would be "allows the bearer entry into that nation, and permanence for as long as the visa remains valid." This is to accomodate visas that allow a sigle entry to the country.

4. MANDATES that all adult citizens carry a Passport issued by the relevant nation in which they hold citizenship or other citizen status, when travelling abroad, except where deemed unnecessary by the receiving nation,

Again, double nationality, I would favour "a relevant nation."

a) Name, date of birth, gender, place of birth, nationality, citizenship status, height and distinguishing features of the holder;

I would replace nationality by issuing nation.

----

Maybe I missed it, but it would be very important to mandate nations to disclose lists of invalidated passports (usually criminals evading justice) to all other members, so that appropriate steps may be taken.

Also, I know you are oversized as it is, but a student visa would be nice.
Cobdenia
16-12-2005, 15:31
I'm have a feeling I'm going to have to submit this as two seperate resolutions...
St Edmund
17-12-2005, 17:28
I'm have a feeling I'm going to have to submit this as two seperate resolutions...

My reading of the 'Diplomatic Immunity' resolution is that as that law allows immunity to be revoked it should be legal for this measure to allow Diplomatic visas to be revoked, so maybe you could save a few characters by putting the bit about visas possibly being revoked in the main body of '9' [just once] rather than including it [twice] in two separate sub-clauses...