NationStates Jolt Archive

In the course of debates, much has been said about the need to represent National Sovereignty and the implications that proposals have on the rights of individual countries to for policy and legislate it. The groups who oppose the perceived excess influence and power of the U.N. have largely come together to form a organisation to represent and lobby for their interests, the National Sovereignty Organisation.

Yet some of us feel happy with the great extent of the U.N. and support its broad mandate to form policy in as many areas as possible, if it can be shown to benefit our progress and development as nations. Wouldn't it, I propose, be nice if we like minded individuals, came togethere to form our own counter-part to those of the NSO and created the United Nations Federalist Organisation (UNFO).

Anyone interested? Suggestions?

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

I'll join but what would we do?

Well the idea is a rough one, but these were my basic thoughts:

-To put forwards a positive case for U.N. intervention.

-To improve the image of the U.N. and show the benefits of U.N. legislation.

-To try and encourage national participation in the U.N. and thus reverse the continuing decline in U.N. membership.

-To establish a philosophy of balance, so that nations will, to the greatest degree possible, not feel resentment at the activities and proposals of the U.N.

Those were my basic ideas, I'm looking for input here, this was really just a thought I had.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

I suspect Ecopoeia is regarded by most nations as 'anti-sovereigntist' and, to some extent, this is a fair perception. However, I'm reluctant to associate my people with the 'federalists', so I'm afraid that we will not be joining UNFO (or whatever is instituted in its place), though I wish you the best.

So, anyone for the United Nations Mildly Internationalist and Frankly a Bit Fluffy Organisation?

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

U.n.m.i.f.b.f.o?

erm... why can't I put that in caps?

Yelda is moderately Sovereigntist, so I suppose that makes us moderately International Federalist as well. Ideologically speaking, we tend to get caught in the middle of the whole sovereigntist/federalist debate. We might join.

I suspect Ecopoeia is regarded by most nations as 'anti-sovereigntist' and, to some extent, this is a fair perception. However, I'm reluctant to associate my people with the 'federalists', so I'm afraid that we will not be joining UNFO (or whatever is instituted in its place), though I wish you the best.

So, anyone for the United Nations Mildly Internationalist and Frankly a Bit Fluffy Organisation?

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

Hmm, you're right, 'Federalist' is a bit harsh, maybe if we came up with a condensed version of your suggested name. Then would you be interested?

How about "The United Nations Internationalist Organisation"? (slightly redundant, but it's just a thought).

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Yelda is moderately Sovereigntist, so I suppose that makes us moderately International Federalist as well. Ideologically speaking, we tend to get caught in the middle of the whole sovereigntist/federalist debate. We might join.

We'd aim at being a broad church whenever possible, so as to make sure no one feels needlessly excluded.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

OOC:

Actually Federalist is probably the perfect word for it. I created a United Nations Association to accomplish many of the goals you've stated here, but I also wanted the organization to be neutral ... or rather to pretend to be driven by national chapters of private citizens and to not be a political alliance of sorts.

But just like there is a real life UNA there also are a number of Federalist chapters that are even more liberal than the UNA with respect to the view that at some point the human race should have a strong / centralized world government. The trick is finding something like that which will respect member states. :)

I'll see if I can find a link. I remember the name as being American Federalist (something) ... but in any event, the name isn't bad.

[Riley, suspicious of this new organization for Federalists, eyes Otterby, points to his own eyes, then to Otterby's.]

I'm watchin' you, buddy!

:p

[Riley, suspicious of this new organization for Federalists, eyes Otterby, points to his own eyes, then to Otterby's.]

I'm watchin' you, buddy!

:p

"Is that a threat Ambassador Riley", remarked Otterby sanguinely.

"Is that a threat Ambassador Riley", remarked Otterby sanguinely.
[Bob walked in carring a 17 pound trout]

No Mr. Otterby, this is a threat.:p

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

I am not a National Soverigntist. But I'm getting there.
I am afraid to say i will not be able to join.

[Bob walked in carring a 17 pound trout]

No Mr. Otterby, this is a threat.:p

Bob Flibble
NSO Mafia Don

"Et tu Flibble", exclaimed an alarmed Otterby, before pulling a large Tiger Otter from a sack and waving it around him in a nervous manner. :p

OOC:

Actually Federalist is probably the perfect word for it. I created a United Nations Association to accomplish many of the goals you've stated here, but I also wanted the organization to be neutral ... or rather to pretend to be driven by national chapters of private citizens and to not be a political alliance of sorts.

But just like there is a real life UNA there also are a number of Federalist chapters that are even more liberal than the UNA with respect to the view that at some point the human race should have a strong / centralized world government. The trick is finding something like that which will respect member states. :)

I'll see if I can find a link. I remember the name as being American Federalist (something) ... but in any event, the name isn't bad.

I'd be more than happy to join an existing Federalist chapter if it shares my views. Thank you for alerting me to their existence.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

*Bump*

As the self-proclaimed loudest supporter of IntFed, I'll happilly join any new group, but if a chapter already exists that I haven't heard about yet, I'll be a bit more reluctant to.

OOC: I'll have a look at any new group. Recently returned to NSO as an Observer a la Mik, and ICly am much more likely to join any Federalist group.

When International Federalists began terrorising the humble inhabitants of the United Nations, no one dared to stand up to them. Marriage laws were changed, crop rotation policies adopted, conventions on global disarmament held...yet the madness did not end. Finally, when all seemed lost, and peaceful international cooperation reared its scorpion tail for the final strike, the people cried out, "Who will save us now..."

The Magnificent Sovereigntists

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/5037/magnificentsovereign0wl.gif

(From left to right: Texan "Does my gun look big in this?" Hotrodders; Yeldan UN Mission...now with new Summer Fruit flavour!; Powerhungry "if the fuzz asks, we ain't heah, see?" Chipmunks; "The Don"; Norbert "That's not my name!" June; Kenny the Dolphin Slayer; The ohshitlookwhatyou'vegotmeintonowvirate of Enn. Note: Cluichstan does not appear in the picture: those phone lines don't man themselves, you know.)

----

Yeah...we're watching you, Compadria. Seriously, good luck (after all, we need the competition...winning has become so dull).

I'd be more than happy to join an existing Federalist chapter if it shares my views. Thank you for alerting me to their existence.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

OOC: I think this is what I remember from the early 1990s.

http://www.wfm.org/index.php/base/main

When I moved out to California after finishing high school (in Texas), I remained active in a couple Model UN programs, and through them sat in a few RL UNA (United Nations Association) meetings. One of those meetings in Oakland included a few people which I believe were part of this (or a similar) World Federalist Movement.

I'd have to dig around my old MUN documents to see if I kept anything from them ... but I think this is the general organization.

Cool western pic.
Good one Gruen!

Hey, I'm Steve McQueen!

(From left to right: Texan "Does my gun look big in this?" Hotrodders; Yeldan UN Mission...now with new Summer Fruit flavour!; Powerhungry "if the fuzz asks, we ain't heah, see?" Chipmunks; "The Don"; Norbert "That's not my name!" June; Kenny the Dolphin Slayer; The ohshitlookwhatyou'vegotmeintonowvirate of Enn. Note: Cluichstan does not appear in the picture: those phone lines don't man themselves, you know.)

Thank you for calling the National Sovereignty Organisation. How may I direct your call?

I might well be interested.

I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who replied to this thread. Your comments have been very informative and I'm glad there's so much interest in this idea. I'm leave it at this for the moment and come back to it in the New Year, probably mid-January.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

In another post (to answer a random accusation of micromanagement, which seems to be a buzz-word around here) I wrote something like this:

"There are three possible levels at which an international organisation may operate:
a) Micromanagement: Dictates the specific details of the implementation of a measure, thereby replacing the role of the government.
b) Macromanagement: States a general goal or principle that members should follow, yet leaves implementation details to individual governments.
c) No management: Does absolutely nothing except beautiful speeches.
(OOC: Arguably, RL UN is between b and c, RL EU and NS UN are between a and b.)"

Now, it seems to me that the hardcore NatSov line wants to push the UN towards c), while the Feds (likit?) want to push it towards a). Personally, I am boringly stuck in the middle... so I would join neither.

OOC: I find the choice of movie interestingly meaningful. Some people might accuse it of being a cultural-imperialistic and shameless rip-off, others would call it a cool remake. Nice point for debate, no? ;)

I'd prefer the term "internationalist". It just sounds better to me, and - I don't know if this is just me - seems to have less negative connotations.

But anyway, I'd be interested. I'm pro-UN intervention everywhere where I regard it as practical, and conducive to ensuring the rights and freedoms of sapient beings everywhere.

Norbert "That's not my name!" June

:upyours: :p

I'd prefer the term "internationalist". It just sounds better to me, and - I don't know if this is just me - seems to have less negative connotations.
Internationalist does sound better. When i hear "federalist", I think of the U.S. federal government.

Internationalist does sound better. When i hear "federalist", I think of the U.S. federal government.

In EU matters, "federalist" is often used as an insult...

One could argue that federalist might be more appropriate as a dexcription of the sovereigntists, given its decentralised connotations.

Go federalise yourselves, you federalist mother-federalisers.

No, it just doesn't work as an insult. We'll have to think up better - ie cruder - names.

Go federalise yourselves, you federalist mother-federalisers.

No, it just doesn't work as an insult. We'll have to think up better - ie cruder - names.

:D

I'm interested in joining this group.

Was starting to drift towards the nat sov side of things over the last few months, but after some of the very ill informed nat sov rants that have popped up in my resolutions thread, I find myself repelled away from it again.

I hereby reclaim my fluffiness, and promise to use it only to annoy :p :D.

The Magnificent SovereigntistsGruenberg winz teh intranets.

In the course of debates, much has been said about the need to represent National Sovereignty and the implications that proposals have on the rights of individual countries to for policy and legislate it. The groups who oppose the perceived excess influence and power of the U.N. have largely come together to form a organisation to represent and lobby for their interests, the National Sovereignty Organisation.

Yet some of us feel happy with the great extent of the U.N. and support its broad mandate to form policy in as many areas as possible, if it can be shown to benefit our progress and development as nations. Wouldn't it, I propose, be nice if we like minded individuals, came togethere to form our own counter-part to those of the NSO and created the United Nations Federalist Organisation (UNFO).

Like others, I'm not sure about the name: I'd favour 'internationalist' over 'federalist', probably. However, I'd be more inclined to do so because 'federalism' has different connotations for British, American and European NSers than because I think it's an inherently bad word.

Sheknu would be very interested in joining. We suggest you set up a forum, in the style of the NSO, and perhaps also collectively write a guide to 'the UN as a world government' or 'internationalism in the NSUN'. Good luck, and I hope to participate! :)

Like others, I'm not sure about the name: I'd favour 'internationalist' over 'federalist', probably. However, I'd be more inclined to do so because 'federalism' has different connotations for British, American and European NSers than because I think it's an inherently bad word.

Sheknu would be very interested in joining. We suggest you set up a forum, in the style of the NSO, and perhaps also collectively write a guide to 'the UN as a world government' or 'internationalism in the NSUN'. Good luck, and I hope to participate! :)

I've got a starting point for something like that which talks about the NSUN having more in common with the RL EU rather than the RL UN.